/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Recently I've had a strong urge to create a VN Oh boy, here we go, it might sound like a bit of a pipe dream but I do have a fairly good idea of what I want to do and I have coding knowledge (probably enough to program my own engine although I imagine it'll use Ren'py).

The problem is that I have no idea what goes into making a VN, how many hours of producing etc. I've never even worked on a similar project before.

To sum up:
1.) Could anyone with experience please advise me on the feasibility and how big a team it'd need?
2.) Are there any amateurs on here who'd be interested and have any of the relevant skills?
3.) Any general comments.
4.) Does anyone do a good Kyonosuke/Wakamoto impression? just kidding (in case your joke detector is broken)

(Man, I hope spoiler tags work on /jp/)

[Anonymous No.]

I was about to write a serious reply, and then
>(Man, I hope spoiler tags work on /jp/)

[Anonymous No.]

Add this to the list of failed VN projects.

[Anonymous No.]

Get software
Get a good artist
Get someone who can probably plot a murder
Add tits

[Anonymous No.]

visual novel ideas are a dime a dozen, if you're already worried by how much it'll take enjoy never accomplishing anything of note

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570711
well if you're serious about this, I can provide the BGM if you want.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7570711
You could probably do it all yourself. That's what I'm doing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570719
Probably

>>7570720
OK, you're just being a dick. I would be on here a lot more if /jp/ didn't hate everything that was translated.

>>7570742
Sounds like any game tbh. Still worth giving it a shot.

[Anonymous No.]

I always need opportunities to force myself to write more, so I'll join in.

I've been on plenty of sinking project ships before, but I try and stay on them as long as they're afloat.

[Anonymous No.]

1.) You can do it by yourself, all you need is motivation and preferably a good artist. You can use free resources on the internet for music, and backgrounds aren't that hard to convert from pictures.
2.) There are a fair number of competent artists and musicians on /jp/, but you'll need to prove that your VN project is worth joining, preferably with a demo of sorts.
3.) Add gameplay, it's a particularly good way to make otherwise plain VNs extremely entertaining (unless the gameplay in question is terrible beyond salvaging, see Daiteikoku and EnA.) Play Erotical Nights and have sex with guys to make them ascend for a bit and you'll see why. Lolita breathed in your ear!

[Anonymous No.]

If you can't draw, you might as well give up now. Hoping you'll find an interested and motivated artist to help you is only marginally more likely than winning the lottery.

Start small. Even a first project on the scale of Planetarian or Narcissu is probably too much. Aim for something closer to OMGWTFOTL's length. A smaller project means a smaller team would be needed, and frankly a team should have as few people as possible to avoid bottlenecks and people dropping out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570765
That'd be great.

>>7570791
Same as above

>>7570779
I could always do that first and then see about getting some good CGs/sprites later.

>>7570800
Gameplay is only possible if I do my own engine but it's a nice idea.

>>7570808
Yeah, I can't draw and my idea is a bit long, although it's easily cut down, so that's a bit of a downer. I'm surprised to hear willing artists are so rare though.

[Anonymous No.]

I've been working in one for three months now.
We have two writers, a really good musician, a nice programmer, but artists have been failure after failure.

So, I'd advice you to set your priorities straight and Get

A writer.
An artist
A co-writer.

Writers are easy to find. Good writers, not-so-much.
The co-writer doensn't need to be that good tho.

And, you can program gameplay in Ren'py.
It is not even that hard.

[ｱﾉﾝｵﾌﾊﾞﾝｺｸ No.]

Make a VN entirely out of greentext.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570898

I can see it now: Tsundere 2.0

>Implying I was happy to hear that
>Implying I said that because I like you
>Implying I didn't just have some food left over

[Catgirls is mai Waifu !!dxLDNxl1qRy No.]

>>7570928
>implying there wasn't already a Tsundere 2.0

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570898
You are such a shitty poster, why can't you just leave /jp/ forever, nobody likes you.

[Anonymous No.]

Reported for posting an image of useless, wingless trash on /jp/.

[Kritzinger !TANs7broy. No.]

Good luck Anonymous.

1.) Could anyone with experience please advise me on the feasibility and how big a team it'd need?

The feasibility of a project depends entirely on how much talent and motivation the project manager has; ie. you.

The quality of your game scales with the amount of time and people you have on your development team;

2007; Myself and a writer
2008; Myself, writer, artist
2009; Myself, writer, artist, misc. help from personal friends
2010; Myself, writer, artist(s), graphic designer, musician
2011; Myself, writer(s), artist(s), graphic designer, Python coder, musician(s)

Making friends and establishing personal relationships is important too as the project manager, anyone can quit the project at any time, which happened to Shock Cocoon many - many times since I recruited non-/jp/ early on. Now that my development team is entirely from /jp/, not only has the quality of the product increased drastically, but we get along and talk with eachother as friends would.

2.) Are there any amateurs on here who'd be interested and have any of the relevant skills?

Writers are common
Musicians are uncommon
(Good) Artists are rare

3.) Any general comments.

Have you considered joining an already existing development team and learning how they do things? I had to invent the wheel from scratch since I refused to get myself involved with other VN development groups on 4chan. If you'd like you could hang around the Studio Nihi group and get an idea how we work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570968
>Making friends and establishing personal relationships
God dammit, why are you so good at this Kritz, and why am I so bad at it...

[Anonymous No.]

Why don't you try writing a story like "Murders in the Rue Morgue" by Poe as a visual novel? That in particular is a great short story (one of the best by him) and can be picked apart and altered accordingly. As far as I can tell /jp/ likes mysteries (albeit ones that don't end horribly) and this kind of thing worked with Dandy Girl, although I'd recommended doing a LOT of altering so you could say it was "inspired by" and not "based on."

Hell, I could write it if you want. I'm not sure how I'd prove my writing skills though. Give me something to write as a sample.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570985

>Give me something to write as a sample.

Write the first scene to that as a VN script.

[Anonymous No.]

Also OP you should be aware of this if you want to get a quality product

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2009/12/15/groupthink/

I remember how one project ended up starting work on an idea none of us were really that interested in and so motivation quickly faded.

[ｱﾉﾝｵﾌﾊﾞﾝｺｸ No.]

>>7570943
You are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570968
>FIOC coder

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570985

I'm okay with this idea.

[Anonymous No.]

From the many experience I had with graphic artists I can state with confidence that they are definitely more likely to join your project than actually work on it and staying till the end.

Oh, and never tell them that they need to change or (god forbid!) redo one of drawings unless it's strictly necessary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570968
>numerous art changes
This is why nothing is ever completed! (I'm only half joking)

But thanks for the offer, I'll come check you guys out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570968

Whoever you got for an artist in '11 is awesome. Send the person my utmost regards as an artist myself.

[Anonymous No.]

How would you go about getting the music done? I'm only planning on making a short VN and can draw/code/write decently, but music is definitely holding me back. Do you guys just outsource to someone or hire a musician, or is there a program that can synthesize decent tunes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571101
Just steal from arranges. We're gaijin, it's not like we have honor or anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571101

I'll make you music for money.

[Kritzinger !TANs7broy. No.]

>>7571068
All our artists prior to 2011 have been from websites such as Deviant Art. They'd produce just enough artwork to get you started - then demand money or threaten to bail. Happened atleast three times to me. I've shelled out probably a few hundred dollars to these scam artists (pun intended) over the past few years.

My current artist (2011) approached me about doing work for Studio Nihi after they read one of my posts here on /jp/ complaining about my art woes.

I hope Shock Cocoon becomes popular enough that it generates revenue via donations and such. I'd love to take this visual novel thing full time and hire my current artist, I owe him so much for saving the project ;_;

(I was just about ready to dump the whole thing after losing our third artist back in 2010)

>>7571101
How Studio Nihi did it;

We gave our musician a copy of the script and over the course of a few days we (myself and the musician) marked out major scene changes (background/location) where music would be needed. They (the musician) went and made music for those scenes, tweaking tracks as needed.

Don't forget the fade-in and fade-out for looping!

>>7571068
We mostly hang out on IRC,
Rizon.net #hotglue and #cocoon

[Anonymous No.]

I had to pay people for art. It often comes down to that. It's very unlikely anyone will care about your project unless you have a demo with good art, and that includes artists.

[Anonymous No.]

Wait, so let me get this straight - you're not a writer, not an artist, not a musician, you just have an urge to create a VN?
Give up.
Unless you have a really interesting idea too hook people with, or talented friends willing to go along with you(and friends =/ random people on the internet) you're not going to succeed.

[Anonymous No.]

I've always wanted to join a /jp/ project, but the only things I have to offer are motivation and programming skill, which is irrelevant if people are just going to use an renpy/ONscripter/whatever ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571195
Even onscripter can benefit from an EXPERT PROGRAMMER writing the script, custom functions, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570711

I'll echo the good art, and in addition:

You MUST have a storyboard.
MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST.

Have I beat it into your head yet? Good.

This is the step in-between thinking of the story and writing it, it's where you break up the story into scenes and write a brief description of each scene. They're typically done in flowchart form so you can follow everything and see the decision points. I mean, sure, you can try to write the story cold-turkey, but it's hella hard and will probably be disorganized and shitty (talking from experience here), and if you're working with multiple writers it'll be even harder to try and coordinate something without an overall structure to work from. There's a reason it's an industry practice to do this.

There's a bunch of free flowchart programs around (I've been personally using yED, but just look them up on wiki), and it'll really help you out if you're serious about this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571195

Help revive Touhou moon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571195
Or a renpy game that's implementing gameplay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571195
Groups could always use an extra beta tester or proofreader.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571177
I need a decent IRC client, using chatzilla atm. Forgotten how to use it too.

[Anonymous No.]

Alright, let me give you some of my insight regarding the members needed to complete a game, based on my personal experiences:

CODERS
Those guys are bros. Like, absolute bros. Not only they are totally into coding, but when you decide to take coding for a living, chances are you are one hell of a nerd. Thanks to that, coders tend to be dedicated and proactive, on top of knowing their shit. They will try to explain everything about DLL libraries, C++, C-- and C**, even though it's obvious you don't understand shit of what he's trying to say. You might want to be really curious to ask him how did he manage to get that particle system going, but as soon as he spells the word "square root", you'll wish you didn't.

Rarity:
Due to the nerd-ish nature of 4chan, finding programmers around here is no problem at all. Most of them are pretty good, too. However, keep in mind that since most of them are competent, they also hold jobs or are into college, so don't expect them to be available all the time.

Competence:
90% of the times, they are amazing. At least the ones who try their hand at a project, anyway. They might need some time to do some research, but expect solid results with the proper guidance.

Pros:
- Reliable and dedicated.
- Knowledgeable about what they do.
- Are not going to bail on your ass because they "want to dedicate more time to real life".

Cons:
- Socially retarded most of the time, don't expect them to take the lead.
- Busy as fuck.
- If you treat them too well, they become fickle, so watch out.

★★★★★／★★★★★
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Next, Musicians.

[Anonymous No.]

MUSICIANS
Oh shit nigger, you just found a musician. Dude's charismatic and knows a lot about music. He never went to music school or anything like that, but according to him, he's been composing for a long time, since he just "loves music so much". You then decide to check their works. Without a single warning, you are bombarded with an endless stream of awful electronic music, dubstep and remixes made with FLS in 20 minutes. What the fuck.

Rarity:
So-so. 4chan itself is a place for losers and social rejects, so you can imagine the sort of fellow who REALLY wants to compose REAL music would be somewhere else. That being said, this is the information age, so finding some guy who's actually handy with decent VSTs is not impossible. Don't get your hopes up, though, he's most likely too awesome for you.

Competence:
Hard to determinate. People who are enthusiastic about music tend to hate a certain genre of it, so if by chance that happens to be one of the genres you are working with, just give up. Feed him enough attention and make him feel loved, and he might just come up with something decent.

Pros:
- Can hold their own even without too much direction.
- If you manage to grab yourself a decent one, good music motivates the entire team.
- Will stick around as long as you keep his need for attention well-nourished.

Cons:
- Will disappear without leaving any trace as soon as you stop paying attention to him.
- "My way or the highway".
- Due to being most of the time hipsters, they consider themselves better than most of the other "weeaboos" at 4chan.

★★☆☆☆／★★★★★
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Coming next, Artists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571055
>Oh, and never tell them that they need to change or (god forbid!) redo one of drawings unless it's strictly necessary.
fuck that
this kind of mentality leads artists into getting a big head and thinking the project revolves around them, leading into "gib mons pls or i leve yu HUEHUEHUE"

the right thing to do is ask to see the art drawn every step in the process and stop it as soon as you find issue with it, minimizing the work needed. The same goes for musicians. If they can't even handle that much, then they don't deserve to be called artists.

This only applies to objective issues, rather than subjective issues of vision. If the artist doesn't have the right "vision," then it's a failure on the part of the project manager for not communicating his ideas correctly.

it's not any less difficult for a writer to ctrl+A del when he's told a scene that he spent two hours on just doesn't work. Saying that artists should be immune to criticism is just silly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571310
>>7571314
this reads more like a guide about a game where you make games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571341
That's not a bad idea. I remember there was an iPhone game about owning a game company, saw a few threads on /v/ a while back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571203

I think it's a better idea to create a storyboard in the VN, out of photos and quick sketches, with notes appended to explain how the effects etc are supposed to go. It's like an animatic in film; you get an idea of how things will actually look in the VN itself even before you do the real art.

[Anonymous No.]

ARTISTS
Your most valuable asset. Artists are people who grew up feeding on general praise and deluding themselves to be "the best amongst their friends". This gives makes artists often arrogant and bitchy, but of course, there are exceptions to that rule. Some of them are genuinely interested in making good art, disregarding money or praise. Just kidding, they will always want one of those. Sometimes both. But you best not piss them off, otherwise they will quit, and suddenly all your sprites will become obsolete in a single fit of nerd-rage. Watch the fuck out.

Rarity:
Since we are at /jp/ now, it shouldn't be hard to understand that this is the sort of community that attracts people who are interested into art. Noted the keyword "interested"? That means finding people who nominate themselves as "artists" isn't hard at all. They are excited about working on the project as much as you are, so it's their pleasure to join your project and work hard! -- Except they will bail after a few months, since you weren't praising their artwork enough. It's all your fault, you stupid faggot.

Competence:
Seldom will you have the joy of coming across artists who are skilled and able to deliver impressive material. In fact, 80% of the times the guy(or girl, yeah enjoy dealing with that too) will just have a crappy "unique style" he developed back when he posted in DeviantArt. Chill, his actual art is much better than that, those are just "doodles". With the proper effort, they can become the key member of the team, amazing the shit out of everyone.

Pros:
- At least they like what they do.
- With a good scenario, they will deliver.
- Can learn new techniques quickly.

Cons:
- Attention whores, sometimes putting the Musician to shame.
- Fickle as hell, batshit crazy.
- Most of them are just not artists.

★★★☆☆／★★★★★
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Coming up next, Writers. Oh boy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571328

I never said that they should be immune to criticims, but if you don't want them to drop the project you need to suck it up or pay them.

And I'm not even implying that they have the right to be such emo bitches, they just are, you need to be prepared to deal with them or get dumped in the process.

If you are so lucky to find a serious artist that wouldn't be bothered in the least by your criticism and that would stick with the projects without asking for any money, that' good for you. But personally I think I'd have better chances finding a hot girlfriend that will never bitch at me and that will be perfectly fine with my lifestyle and my sex fetishes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571310
>DLL libraries
Nice redundant redundancy you have there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571391
Scenario one:
>Yo this bitch be crosseyed.
>say what?
>Bitch. Crosseyed. Redo.
>fuck you nigger im leaving
>...

Scenario two:
>Perfect! Good job, like always! Amazing!
>im bored
>What?
>give me money
>Um, no?
>im leaving
>No, wait! Alright, alright!
>good. now get down and suck my dick
>(Your bitch still be crosseyed)

It's all down to which you prefer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7570985
>"Murders in the Rue Morgue"
I can already see people on /jp/ trolling the ending.

>>7571195
I've been wanting to make an an old school adventure game type eroge. It's only in the very infant stages of planning though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571408

The "unless strictly necessary" must have totally defied your reading skill. There's no point in having an artist that makes art you can't use or an artist you can't work with.

But if it's not strictly necessary you better suck it up and praise them even if you are not totally pleased.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm an artist who has done game projects before. Feel free to ask me anything. Here's a bit of advice from what I've learnt as an artist:

1) When to get an artist

Do not get an artist as the first thing in your project. Most decent artists do not join projects with nothing to show unless you have offered particularly compelling reasons for them to do that ($$$ or you having proven yourself reliable through earlier collaborations/finished projects).

Also, remember that art is worthless without the script while the script can always get new art, so a writer going kthxbye on an artist is worse in the sense that the done work is most likely unsalvageable. If you aren't 100% confident the story will be finished, you're making someone work at the risk of their work becoming perfectly useless. That's not nice.

2) What to look for in an artist

When looking for an artist, most people look for shiny, technically good drawings. This makes sense; you don't want your VN to look crappy. I will compliment my fellow /jp/ers in that the people here seem to have a good eye for art in general, and can appreciate well drawn art.

However, this skill of /jp/ can lead /jp/ers to make a stupid mistake here. As harsh as it sounds, quality of one's work is not the first thing you should be looking for in an artist. Remember those stories about artists that draws a few promising pictures and then disappears?

continuing ->

[Anonymous No.]

WRITERS
Jesus fuck, did someone say "pretentious faggot"? Because I'm pretty sure I heard someone saying "pretentious asshole with mental issues". I say that due to having read many books about that back in my day, don't worry, I know much more than you. See how did you wanted to punch me in the face just now? That's how you'll feel when talking to those delightful gentlemen. Don't worry though, they are not that bad sometimes. But you'll be way too pissed to notice.

Rarity:
Probably the most difficult to find. Due to the constant exposure on entertainment media, people who are willing to take a shot at venturing on their favorite medium are not rare(like you). However, don't expect that just because of that, you'll manage to find someone who's willing to write over 100 thousand words of his original scenario so easily. It is also worth noting that being the "ideas guy" does not qualifies as a writer.

Competence:
Is he good or bad? As soon as you vocalize those thoughts in form of a question, you are linked a page with "some of his works". Oh my, that's an awful lot of fan-fiction. Wait, what the fuck? As soon as you realize, you'll be wondering what sort of people browses 4chan these days. Worry not. There are some writefags out there who can weave a really good story, making use of thrilling prose and extensive vocabulary.

Pros:
- It all starts with the scenario. A good writer is decisive for a good game.
- Creative dude.
- Knowledgeable about tropes, capable of leading the team on your absence(CAREFUL WITH THAT).

Cons:
- A pretentious faggot who has his head so deep inside his own ass that he could probably roll around like a wheel.
- "What do you mean my scenario sucks? Good-bye."
- Try to explain the concept of "limited resources" to them. Go ahead, try it.

★☆☆☆☆／★★★★★
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Coming next up, Graphic Designers.

[Anonymous No.]

-> continuing from >>7571470

While I detest these fellow artists that ruin our reputation, the fault may not lay solely in them. Unless you're making a tiny VN with say, less than 10 illustrations, your project will need huge commitment from the artist. If you only look at how shiny the samples are instead of asking them if they can promise to draw mostly for this project for the next couple of years and whether they have done large, time-consuming projects like this before, you're just asking for them to ditch you halfway through. There are many devoted, competent and sane artists that don't whore for praise and attention, but a lot of people just pick the wrong artists over them. An artist who can consistently provide you with steady 8/10 art is better than one who can do 10/10 but will leave you after the sketches. Getting to know the artist, discussing the project and its needs and using common sense before accepting them in your team will get you far, friend.

tl;dr: Look for an artist who can actually do the project rather than one you'd like to do the project. This way you will get your project done without runaway artists.

3) How to treat your artist

Try to give the artist some creative freedom and treat them as someone who can add their own value to their project, rather than just commanding them around and complaining about every detail. If you can't handle giving a bit of control to someone else, it's time to learn to draw. If you're afraid that they might deviate from how you feel about the characters, just make them read the script and write about the character's personalities. Try to communicate with them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571420
Because everyone always agrees on what revisions are strictly necessary?

And you must've missed the part where I implied that an artist left undisturbed will often come to feel that he is the center of the group and free to hand in shit on paper and demand money without consequence.

I'm not saying to pull a fucking /ic/ and rip their finished product to shreds until it's perfection. I'm saying to take extra time to find an artist worth his or her salt that will take fair criticism without throwing a hissy fit, rather than jumping on the first artist with his dick out and sucking like a tornado.

If you don't, chances are you're going to suffer in the long run. because the stakes are just going to keep raising the closer your project goes to completion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571473
Ugh, I got lazy. Guess I'll take it easy for now.

[Kritzinger !TANs7broy. No.]

>>7571515
>rather than jumping on the first artist with his dick out and sucking like a tornado

I laughed so hard at this line.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571515

You are assuming stuff that I never said, I had this artist guy once who tried to be a complete asshole and I kicked him out without a second thought, and I didn't regret it even though he WAS good. But I wasn't even talking about asshole, does should be kicked automatically.

You just need to understand the difference between an art you can't use for your project and an art you don't like. This might vary from person to person as you said, but it's important you draw a line somewhere.

Now can you stop being an assuming bitch?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571420
>>7571408
If you're unsatisfied with someone's work so much that you find yourself with suggestions for improvement at every single turn, there are two possible scenarios:
1) you've taken an artist who is either incompetent, whose work is incompatible with your project or who is an egoist prick; go find another one, and try harder this time
or
2) you're a bossy, perfectionist asshole.

Regarding two, you've apparently felt the need to get your project an artist. That means you are, most likely, rather incapable as an artist yourself.

Thing is, some people vastly overestimate the quality of the feedback they give, as was the case here. Many of my fellow artists agreed that the "suggestions for improvement" that one bossy writer gave me would have made my drawings worse. If you aren't an artist, the artist is highly likely to know better - unless it's about the art not matching the details of the story, of course, in case of which you should tell them.

Disregarding the 3% or so with serious mental issues, a wide majority of artists will not freak out if you politely give them helpful suggestions. If you find yourself with angry artists over and over again, you're probably doing something wrong. Try to word your critique respectfully and have humility. If you tell them to fix every minor unaesthetic detail, you're not critiquing, just complaining.

I find it weird how some of the posts in this thread talk about artists like they're the enemies of your project or something, huh. Doesn't that make the environment pretty hostile for the artist to work in? I think you'll get better quality by making them care about you and your project. Make them your bros and they will love to work for you for the sheer joy of it.

[Anonymous No.]

If you're unsatisfied with someone's work so much that you find yourself with suggestions for improvement at every single turn, there are two possible scenarios:
1) you've taken an artist who is either incompetent, whose work is incompatible with your project or who is an egoist prick; go find another one, and try harder this time
or
2) you're a bossy, perfectionist asshole.

Regarding two, you've apparently felt the need to get your project an artist. That means you are, most likely, rather incapable as an artist yourself.

Thing is, some people vastly overestimate the quality of the feedback they give. I had one bossy writer whose suggestions for "improvement" would have actually made my work worse, as many of my fellow artists agreed. If you aren't an artist, the artist is highly likely to know better - unless it's about the art not matching the details of the story, of course, in case of which you should tell them.

Disregarding the 3% or so with serious mental issues, a wide majority of artists will not freak out if you politely give them helpful suggestions. If you find yourself with angry artists over and over again, you're probably doing something wrong. Try to word your critique respectfully and have humility. If you tell them to fix every minor unaesthetic detail, you're not critiquing, just complaining.

I find it weird how some of the posts in this thread talk about artists like they're the enemies of your project or something, huh. Doesn't that make the environment pretty hostile for the artist to work in? I think you'll get better quality by making them care about you and your project. Make them your bros and they will love to work for you for the sheer joy of it. Chill out and have fun, it'll probably have a positive effect on your work, too.

[Anonymous No.]

I've been wanting to make one myself for a while, but I've never had the motivation and the only thing I can somewhat do is draw. Lately I've been too frustrated and demotivated to do that anyways.

If you weren't a complete dick then I probably wouldn't mind doing art for someones project, it'd be fun and it's not like I have anything better to do. I really am pretty shit at drawing though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571583
>art you can't use for your project
>and an art you don't like
why the fuck would I hire an artist that makes drawings i don't like?

>does should be kicked automatically.
i assume english is not your first language

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571603

I tend to be overly critic and I'm very hardky satisfied with anything, including my own work. But that's precisely why I learned to never fully disclose my thoughts.

The problem is I've seen artists (a lot) losing interest in my projects even when the critic was about the fact their works couldn't practically be used at all! Some of them just got demoralized, some other actually got pissed evne though it couldn't be helped. And it's not even like I didn't explain how they should do the job or what was it for, they simply ignored it.

I might be biased by bad experiences maybe? But I can count at least 30.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571651
Do you mean 30 artists?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571667

Yeah I came to deal with that many.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571688
In that case, I don't think the fault can really be in the artists in all of your cases. The common denominator here is you, right? Appropriate and well worded critique should not demoralise or anger artists - even less so 30 of them.

There must be something or some things you could do better. How do you usually pick your artists? Can you provide samples on what kind of feedback you give, and the work you weren't content with? How do you communicate with the artists, overall? If you tell us the details, we should probably be able to help.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571177
>I hope Shock Cocoon becomes popular enough that it generates revenue via donations and such. I'd love to take this visual novel thing full time and hire my current artist,
I remember, you were that guy making threads about the legal procedures about opening a visual novel studio or something, lol

[Anonymous No.]

I'd like to write but I have trouble coming up with plots. I suppose my life has been so uneventful I can't think up any conflict... How do the writers around here come up with their plots?

[Anonymous No.]

Look, basically, there are two kinds of people who create: lets call them artists and "artists".
The "artist" is what >>7571378 describes - they drew a bit, got some praise from people who think that drawing is some magical art that requires innate talent - maybe their family, maybe friends in real life, then moved to the internet and found an enormous audience for their doodles.
They're not into it because they like to draw - they're into it because they like the praise their drawings net them. They don't respond well to criticism - they don't care much about improving, they just keep doing things that result in maximum attention with minimum effort. And the criticism is often quite valid even from an amateur - the "artist" is often the kind of person who just draws one pose, one perspective, one facial expression, etc. And they repeat that for long enough until it's polished enough that for an inexperienced viewer it looks quite good and gives the impression they know what they're doing. But when challenged with something that requires, say presenting a scene from a particular angle, or utilizing a more anatomically complicated pose they're suddenly completely out of their depth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571864
Then there are artists.
Artists won't think their art is great - quite the opposite. They are the people who are most dissatisfied and disappointed with their own art. They look carefully at what they create, they don't push their good taste aside - but there's a gap. A gap between their taste and their skill. And it takes years to bridge that gap. They don't need need the criticism someone with less experience than they've got themselves can offer - they're giving you the most they can at the given time regardless.
>>7571603
>If you aren't an artist, the artist is highly likely to know better - unless it's about the art not matching the details of the story, of course, in case of which you should tell them.
summed it up nicely.
Of course, there are artists that have bridged the gap - but the possibility of those agreeing to work for free, with amateurs, on a long term project they don't have a complete creative control over is pretty slim.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571737

Well first the common denominator wasn't always me, as in same cases I simply was part of the project and while I worked with those artists the one who actually critiqued wasn't me.

Second not all of them left or raged, in some cases I simply experienced a great delay in their production, like for example they managed to get the work done in two days but I told them: "it's overall pretty good but can you just change this bit here?" and a month later I was still waiting for the correction.

Clearly if the could do the whole job in two days and they needed one month for a minor correction they didn't really reacted well to the critique. Or they simply don't have the will to make their work better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571864
>>7571878
Well said, well said.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571888
Oh shit I got some trips

[Anonymous No.]

No one will play a gaijin VN. Don't even bother.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571888
It's still hard to say what you should change knowing so little. You may be picking the wrong artists, or interacting with them in a wrong way. You still didn't really write about the circumstances. Do you have the will to improve your way of dealing with artists, yourself?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571846
That's the hardest part for me too. Usually I start with the main theme I want for my story. Then I think of a few fitting characters. That's stuff I generally don't have problems with. Then I come up with a series of events and scenes that fit the characters and themes. Most of the time what I come up with is everyday drama, nothing particularly remarkable plotwise. I can't venture far into the unusual (let alone supernatural, sci-fi, fantasy) without worrying way too much about believability.

[Anonymous No.]

So what's this VN actually about

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571846
Take an existing story you like. Delete what you didn't like, add stuff you do like. Scramble the genders, relationships and ages, throw it all in a completely different setting and time and pick a new point of view to narrate from. Take out magic if it has magic, add magic if it doesn't.

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571846

Start with one solid idea you really like and then keep thinking about what you can add to it to make it more interesting.

Eg. You could start with 'wouldn't it be cool if I wrote a story about a /jp/er's life from the first-person POV of his waifu'
And then from there you should consider what features the story should have to maximise the potential of this idea.

[Anonymous No.]

Westerners can't make VNs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571956

Well as I said the way I tried to improve myself was to be as much as gentle as possible. Show enthusiasm with their works even if normally I never show enthusiasm for anything that isn't fucking awesome. If something can work accept it even if you don't like it that much (it might be just personal taste). Tell them what they need to do but give them some freedom, sometimes I even went as far as correcting my script rather than making them recolor a particular. I Try to make them show me their sketches so I can tell them in advance if there's something wrong, but some of them don't want that and that's a pain in the ass.
Any other suggestion?

If you think I should act more bossy like that other anon seemed to imply I know from my experience that doesn't work, since things started going better when I actually adopted the above rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7572035
For one thing, you're definitely moving in the right direction.

If your feelings of enthusiasm aren't genuine, they might notice that. It's easy to let things slip in unconsciously.

How much are you involving them in the project? I can't imagine them drawing things wrong if they have read the script. Have you thought of letting them decide what to draw based on the script instead of telling them to draw this and that?

How often and how much do you talk with the artists? Do you try to befriend them, ask them how they are doing other than the project? Many people get demotivated from lack of communication, critique or not. You'd rather feel like you're working with someone than working for someone. Companionship is especially vital for long projects.

Artists refusing to show their sketches sounds really weird. You aren't picking them from dA or such, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7571986
So glad I am not alone!

>>7571986
>>7571993
>>7572023
Thank you for the tips, I'll try these out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7572094
I don't exaggerate on my enthusiasm... or I think so. Anyway since I never met them in person it should be harder for them to notice my actual opinion, and they would if they could see my face, but lucky they don't.

As for involvment, most of them didn't care at all about giving ideas for the stories (and I'm glad for that), I of course make them read anything that I have written until that point. Some of them where very appreaciative some didn't really care. Also there were a few that wanted me to give them the most direction I could and actually coudlnt' work if I didn't spoonfeed them, I guess that greatly varies from artist to artist. personally I prefer the artists that can come op with ideas of their own.

Third point must be a problem, I never actually tried to befriend them, nor did they. I'm not really good at making friends, but I never thought I should go that far for a project.

Artists refusing to show sketches are rare but they exist. Needless to say, they won't work in the long run. In the most cases they are too insecure about their works and they are the most likely to get offended by critiques. I've got a few from DA but for the most part they were people met on forums and or chats/irc and so on.