/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/, I just embarked on my quest to finally learn Japanese. I shall finally watch raw anime, read untranslated visual novels (!) and converse in Japanese! However, I have a few questions.

1) I'm a complete beginner. I'm learning through Rosetta Stone, which has the premise of "We'll teach them by association and never translate it into their native language!" Well. I'm trying to differentiate between "Onnanoko wa mizu o nonde imasu' and 'onnanoko wa mizu o o nonde imasen'. Is 'imasu' affirmative and 'imasen' negatory? Like, "The little girl is drinking water" as opposed to "The little girl is not drinking water"?

2) What do the little particles mean? Wa, or O, for example. Onna no hito wa kanji o kaite imasu. I interpret this to mean "The woman is writing in Kanji", but what do the 'wa' or the 'o' mean? Do they have direct translations?

3) The system offers four methods of reading. Romaji, Hiragana, Kanji and Kanji/Furigana. Romaji is automatically out, because I want to learn the written language, but should I learn in Hiragana or Kanji + Hiragana? I assume I'll need to learn the kanji eventually, so is it a good idea to jump in headfirst, or wait until I've grasped the hiragana 'alphabet' before dropping into kanji?

4) Are there any easy to read VNs/Eroge out there for learners?

All help, even if it doesn't relate to my questions, is appreciated. In essence, what should I do to make sure I get the best grasp of Japanese that I can? I'm a perfectionist at heart.

Will remain in thread to clarify/answer any questions if asked.

Thanks!

[Anonymous No.]

>perfectionist at heart
>Rosetta Stone

Go take proper classes, you half-assed ass.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>Rosetta Stone
Trouble brewing...

[OP No.]

>>7528788
>>7528786

It's that bad? Reviews suggested otherwise. What makes it so terrible?

[Anonymous No.]

You're trying too hard. Get the fuck out and stop trolling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7528796
Learning by association will take approximately 10 years.
Go to the foreign language board.

[OP No.]

>>7528799

Why did I expect a serious reply anywhere on 4chan? I'd really rather not revert to typing like a faggot to get a reply.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7528796
Romajii is counterproductive, bro.
Also, /jp/ is not for language learning.

[OP No.]

>>7528807

If the Japanese language does not relate to Otaku Culture, what does?

>>7528803

There's a Japanese school in my area. Given that I don't even have a legit copy of Rosetta Stone, it's not really like I'm losing anything by going to this school and abandoning Rosetta. I take it I should attend this school instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7528814
To be honest, I would recommend self-studying.
But really, take this to the language board.
That's what it's for.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>7528814
>If the Japanese language does not relate to Otaku Culture, what does?
You know, for as much as I support a broader topic base for /jp/, I have no desire for this and no urge to help someone so far back on the path such as yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

You're either trolling or completely retarded. The proof is here:
>Rosetta Stone

Use Tae Kim's grammar guide after learning both sets of kana, and never use romaji. Kanji learning methods are controversial here, so I personally won't mention any.

[Anonymous No.]

Like Loliaki said, Rosetta Stone kind of sucks, I wouldn't recommend using it. Go to All Japanese All the Time, that man is the Messiah and his teachings are the word of god when it comes to learning Japanese.

You understand correctly, -masu is the polite present tense affirmative and -masen is polite present tense negative.

Different particles mean different things, most can mean many things. But the two you meantioned are easy enough. Wa　は follows the subject of the sentence, (w)o　を follows the object.

If you insist on using RS, put that shit in kanji, it will help. Learn the hiragana/katakana too, you'll need it even in kanji mode obviously. It shouldn't take more than a week if you keep quizzing yourself, make flashcards. I'd recommend Anki on your computer and the Anki app on your phone. If you're cheap, you can use Surusu, since Anki mobile is expensive.

VN's are pretty hard. Start with easy video games (Pokemon, Mother) and easy manga (Yotsuba&, really anything shounen. Look for lots of furigana.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7528784
1. Yes
2. Rosetta will do a bad job of teaching you particles imo.
3. Romaji should be burned. Start with Hiragana and Katakana then inch up to adding Kanji. No point in learning Kanji when you can't even read Hiragana
4. Not that I know of. Even if there were I don't think it will help you develop that much

I've tried Rosetta before and I think while it probably works, it's probably a bit slow.

imo start by memorizing hiragana and katakana. Test yourself until you can spit out the entire chart. Write it over and over. Once you can do this you can start reading it.

Next, you will need grammar, vocab, and knowledge of particles. Would probably want to grab a book or find a good resource online for that. Don't even bother trying to watch raws or translate manga or VNs at a beginner stage, it will take too long and not teach you anything at this point.

Once you're past the beginner levels you can move on to remembering Kanji and expanding vocabulary. At this stage you probably want to start using ANKI for spaced repetition. This site has a bunch of resources for it -> http://kanji.koohii.com/
Good luck, I'm learning myself but I'm past the basics.

Last but not least, /jp/ is a bad place to ask anything serious imo. The board practically trolls itself. Ask a serious question and for the most part you won't get many serious replies. They'll just shitpost and tell you how much they hate Japan but they love the touhous and VNs. Of course /jp/ won't actually say that, /jp/ is so elitist.

[Anonymous No.]

My Japanese is shitty at best so don't be afraid to take what I say with a grain of salt, however:

- IIRC the general consensus is that Kanji is more or less being phased out to the point where a lot of native speakers might not understand/acknowledge it to the extent that you'd expect. It certainly couldn't hurt to pick it up in the spirit of being well-rounded, however I'd give Hiragana much higher priority.

- As far as attending classes vs. using Rosetta Stone, you're obviously never going to get one-on-one practice in conversation/dialogue if you're flying solo, much less someone to step in and make sure you're not misunderstanding something vital that could lead to bad habits later on, which could be a hard rut to get out of. However, the mere fact that you're willing to go to those lengths on your own shows dedication and should certainly supplement whatever else you could take from actual proper classes.

Like I said I could very well be full of shit, but either way, good luck OP!

[Anonymous No.]

Why do people hate on Rosetta? I mean, sure. I agree, it's totally slow and sort of innefective if you have a short attention spam, but it's a valid method for learning a language in the broader term. If you just say it outright sucks, you're pretty much admitting that the way you learned your native language sucked pretty bad too.

[Anonymous No.]

eroge everyday

[Anonymous No.]

>>7528869
It took me more than 9 years to learn my native language well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7528869
It sucks for learning grammar structures and anything more complicated than "X no Y wa Z desu."

Maybe it is better for languages closer to english, but for Japanese, where everything is all fucked up, from how words function, to the entire meaning behind shit (like plurality, or round thinks getting numbered differently), it is terrible. You really need something to explain all that, because you had better be at least 18 years removed from infancy, and the whole full immersion routine (especially done by a computer that doesn't adapt to you and slow down on thinks you seem confused on and make complex compounds sentence forms obvious) isn't in your brain anymore.

It isn't bad for practicing pronunciation, but it is little more than a vocabulary program for Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there any porn with furigana?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7528897
A really, really slow vocab program for Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7528887
9+ years of constant and complete immersion at that.

[Anonymous No.]

Holy shit you're stupid. Enjoy giving up in 2 weeks.

[Anonymous No.]

Are you me, OP?

I was in your shoes 3 months ago. I've found that creating your own flashcards is far and away the best method so far. I've got Rosetta Stone too but after the first chapter you pretty much HAVE to go out and buy a Japanese dictionary to understand anything at all that it's trying to teach you.

Learn the kana's before starting in on kanji. And write all your flashcard vocab words in kana. Reading and watching stuff fully in Japanese is still beyond me and I've been teaching myself pretty continuously for the past few months. I can catch words, but I wouldn't start out doing that stuff.

I'm also curious about easy(ish) games and VNs in Japanese though. Preferably without kanji though, or at least with furigana if anyone knows of any.

[Anonymous No.]

fuck Rosetta Stone

start with katakana because it's less useful and you'll find it hard to learn it after you know hiragana

also just force katakana nad hiragana into your head
just force it

[Anonymous No.]

1. Get TA+AGTH
2. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_grammar
3. Find any interesting-looking VN and start reading with it. Pay attention to the MeCab/JParser output. You will start recognizing Kanji before long.
4. ????
5. PROFIT!