/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Okay, /jp/, I have a question. I'm not a troll, I'm not a denialfag, I'm just legitimately confused and hope someone can clarify things for me.

We know about Shannon and Lion being two sides of the same coin. In most universes, the baby Kinzo gives Natsuhi is rejected and thrown from a cliff, miraculously survives, and goes on to become a servant and a witch. In the very rarest of worlds, that baby becomes Lion, who is embraced as the successor to the Head though he himself doesn't know he's adopted. Alright, that's easy.

My problem is the fact that the gender ambiguity was a key aspect of the series, EP7 especially. The guts Bern drags out of Clair in the end indicate that the reason Yasu's body is fucked up and s/he considers his/herself to be furniture is because of the fall. The fall maimed Yasu's body, somehow messed up its genitals, and caused some serious gender identity issue. Okay...but then...

[Anonymous No.]

Why is LION's gender also kept ambiguous on purpose? Lion didn't fall from the cliff. If it was just that Ryukishi drew Lion's sprite ambiguous and didn't use gender-specific pronouns (easy in japanese), I'd just say 'well duh, it's because Lion is revealed to be the opposite coin side to Beatrice early in the story, before it's made obvious that Beatrice is Shannon. Ryu is a troll, so he didn't want us to guess immediately based on how Lion looked'.

But the fact that Will ASKS and Lion declines to answer throws me. It's not that Ryukishi just wanted to make Lion's gender ambiguous to the readers, but he went out of his way to prove that even in Lion's world, people are unsure - Lion says s/he gets that question a lot and has a complex about it, even. Which means whatever fucked-up gender identity issues that Yasu has, Lion has them too. Which would mean they can't possibly be because of the fall from the cliff...at least not entirely. So what's going on here? Is this just another shitty Umineko plothole that I'm overthinking? I know this thread will get a lot of haters but say what you will about the end of the series...Shkanyasutrice seems to be the one thing that Ryu planned from the beginning and followed through to the end without changing his mind. I can't imagine he made a mistake here, he just wanted to be a troll and never tell us in the end what was up with Yasu's gender, just that something was wrong.

Can anyone make sense of Lion and Yasu both having a gender complex, when only one of them fell off the cliff? What does that guts scene mean if not 'the fall mangled my junk'? But if the fall did it, why the Hell did Ryukishi even include a scene where Will asks what gender Lion is? My head is full of fuck, inb4 it's Umineko, stop worrying about it, etc. I'm genuinely curious.

Pic semi-related, since Rifyu is wrong, but hilarious.

[Anonymous No.]

Man, I still remember threads full of people angrily denouncing Shkanon. Ah, the years...

[Anonymous No.]

I think "he just wanted to be a troll" sums it up pretty well. That, or he wanted to add some comedy at the expense of things making sense.

[Anonymous No.]

Yasu's gender must remain within the catbox forever.

[Anonymous No.]

he wants us to ponder our sexuality. Would we love someone even if we found out they may be a different gender? We must love people for who they are!

[Anonymous No.]

>>7402548
It is weird for Lion not to answer, but it being weird is kind of the point. He's a completely made-up character to begin with, so Requiem's author could have given an in-story reason for him being gender-ambiguous without any problem. The fact that they deliberately left that reason out and had Will draw attention to it makes it just like all the other times Will pointed out something weird in the narrative. It's just the way the author chose to encode clues about Yasu's world in this game. In Lion's case, they wanted to draw attention to Yasu having a gender problem without indirectly revealing what her original gender actually was.

The bit about Yasu becoming furniture in the tea party did go against that objective by kind of confirming that she was originally a boy, but the tone of that section is so different from the main game that it was probably written by a second author who wasn't as interested in protecting Yasu's secret.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7402555
It wasn't denouncing so much as it was vainly hoping that it wouldn't be such an incredibly stupid solution.

[Anonymous No.]

Lion doesn't have a "gender complex", Lion is just either a masculine female or effeminate male. Either way, Lion is not messed up about its own gender, like Yasuda.

Lion, however, dislikes being ASKED its gender, and to be honest, I would too unless I was deliberately being a transvestite.

[Anonymous No.]

In my Sound novel, this is Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ryukishi07

1. steal stuff from other mysteries

2. lying to reader

3. spit to reader when writing, mouth smell bad

4. don't make good writing, He and his brother, plot holes and dirty story, ugly sprites

5. raping? jap boygirl because italian girl is dead and say jap grandfather no thanks, very ugly and his grandfather

6. very smell of candies eating by EVA-beatrice

7. very smell of incenerated body, no bath long time, sometime 2 days?

ryu07=monkey same

[Anonymous No.]

>>7403031
>Lion, however, dislikes being ASKED its gender, and to be honest, I would too unless I was deliberately being a transvestite.
That's what you get when you look, dress and talk ambiguously.
There was a girl like this when I was in Uni; my friends and I were puzzled for a while before finding out that the person was indeed female.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7403106

God, this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7402548
Lion is hermaphrodite, that's why.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7403106
I chuckled.

[a Japanese No.]

Why did Genji conceal the fact whose Shannon is a child of Quadrillion Beatrice for Kinzo?
When Shannon grew up, Genji feared the thing that Kinzo makes a mistake again.
Additionally, Yasu had the doll.
The answer will be clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7403003
In the case of some, yes. But there were a lot of moonfags for instance who insisted that shkanon was a red herring, in spite of all the clues.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7403031
But lion specifically says that a complex is the reason the question irritates them so much, and lion's answer is usually just 'what do you think I look like?' instead of really answering.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7403884
Because Lion gets asked so often, he/she is buttdevastated about it. Lion was genetically inclined to be gender ambiguous in the first place. The fall just exacerbated things.

The reason Lion is gender ambiguous is because it's convenient for R07 to make him/her so. There's no DEEP reason to it. It also makes more sense that Yasu was gender ambiguous regardless of the fall because otherwise the fall would have had to have caused huge changes.

Personally, I like to think of Lion as male and Yasu as female, even though it makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7403890
Lion is male. Yasu was born as a boy. The fall from the cliff destroyed his genitals to the point that Genji and Nanjo chose to raise "her" as a girl. Yasu had a mental breakdown upon finding out the truth since, you know, identifying as a woman and being in love with men.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7402548
>>7402551
>>7402990
Anyway, it's kept ambiguous so that people who can't handle the idea of Beatrice/Shannon/Lion being male can stay in denial. The clues are pretty fucking obvious for those willing to accept them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7405534
What kind of injury is so bad it would invert a penis to the point of making Yasu actually think she had a vagina until told otherwise? Really? Not disagreeing with you, it's obviously what the story was going for, I just can't comprehend it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7405719
Well Nanjo was one of the few who knew right away...isn't it possible he took Yasu somewhere to get him "fixed up"? After all, if your genitals got THAT badly damaged, it seems pretty obvious some sort of surgery would have to occur so you could at least go to the bathroom. Maybe they just...took it all off? Especially since at such a young age, you really wouldn't be able to reconstruct the whole thing and then guarantee it would develop properly with the growing body.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7405971
I wonder what the fuck it looks like or what they gave him instead of a penis, so fucking horrible. but you know the whole gender shit might not even be right, he might be a girl and maybe just her pussy was damaged. it good go either way. but dont tell the yoai fan girls that.

[Anonymous No.]

Shkanon, yasu, who the fuck cares anymore. Am I the only one who wants to know why maria's goddamn rose was SO IMPORTANT in all the early episodes but never got explain? Ryu07 just forget? What's the deal here? And no one even seems to remember it despite it being a huge focus in all the early eps, because they're blinded by shkanon or then lambda was cake. Fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7406600
>Shkanyasutrice seems to be the one thing that Ryu planned from the beginning and followed through to the end without changing his mind.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7406600
The rose was just a convenient device that allowed Maria to be separated from the group and meet with Beatrice. Yasu is one hell of a lazy author. Deal w/ it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7405719
>>7406039

Doing this kind of thing to an infant boy with an irrevocably damaged penis has precedent in real life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

No, Yasu being born a girl and having a damaged vagina or whatever doesn't actually hold up when scrutinized under the various clues. But again, Ryukishi deliberately left it just shy of "confirmed" so people could stay in denial if they want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7405544
Except Beatrice IS female, because she's an imaginary\meta being.
Maybe Shannon is technically too, but just infertile.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7406715
Something like this would also explain why Genji hid the child's death from Kinzo; if they thought the best way to repair yasu was to raise him as a girl, then obviously giving him back to kinzo could prove to have the same consequences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7406600
It was there to show that Maria is an obnoxious retard.

[Anonymous No.]

Did they ever name Kinzo's wife that gave birth to Krauss, Eva, Rudolf, Rosa.

How old is Yasu compared to these four?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7407281
A smashed uterus would do it.

[Anonymous No.]

If the older siblings are around 50 and Yasu 19 just do the maths.

[Anonymous No.]

Kinzo sure was lustful - to make 4 kids with a woman he didn't care for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408183
Surely you must mean desireful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408038
Kinzo had those kids (at least the first three, not sure about Rosa) before he was even drafted. He had Kuwadorian Beatrice after he and Bice came home, and she died in 1967. Yasu was born in 67, while in 86 the adult siblings are all in their 50's or late 40's (except Rosa who's probably in her thirties). Yasu is only 3 years older than she thinks she is, she's 19 while Battler and Jessica are 18. Was this question really even worth asking? It's like asking how old Jessica is compared to her parents.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408183
don't you know what an arranged marriage is or something? Lust as got nothing to do with it, quite the opposite in fact

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408207

And? his first son was a man, he had an heir. Why to have two more sons? He hates them.

And even having 3 sons and one more with Bice he goes and has Rosa.

It makes no sense to have so many kids you are going to shit on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408215
Looks like someone knows jack shit about how things worked in the 50's/60's.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408220

Looks like we have a Japanese here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408220
So tell us how did they work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408242
http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa080999.htm

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408643

And your point is...?

To start with Kinzo didn't even married in the 70's

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408643
And? We know that it was an arranged marriage.
The point is he really had no need to fuck his wife again to make Rosa after meeting his supposedly one and only true love of his life, Beatrice, more than 10 years ago.
And the previous kids too. He says he didn't feel alive at all. Well, looks like sometimes he did after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408215
for powerful families, more sons meant more links to other families through marriage, not to mention reserve heirs in case something happened to the firstborn
it's just fucking common sense

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408669
>more sons
*meant sons/daughters. See Eva that had to marry Hideyoshi because he was rich. It's not that he wanted to, he was expected to do it as heir of a powerful and influential dynasty.

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko is a lot more pleasant if you try to forget how bad Ryukishi is at writing. I assume this is what people who read Twilight do too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408695
Did you read Twilight yourself?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408704
>assume

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408710
It's still a horrible example. I assume you're a retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408727
Can't even say assume anymore, I just know you're ridiculously mad. Ryukishi still loves you, I'm sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408666
Is there actually any in-story confirmation as to when Rosa was born? We can estimate her age, but I remember the other siblings talk about their life before moving to Rokkenjima...was Rosa just too young to remember, or was she born on Rokkenjima? You don't know that she was conceived after he met Bice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408135
A smashed uterus doesn't account for penis-bearing alter egos factoring into a specific gender complex, or being remembered/referred to as pre-accident capacity as someone's very male son.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408928
She was still going to middle school and lived on Rokkenjima when she met Beatrice II in 1967. Kinzo met original Beatrice in 1945. Unless Rosa is that retarded, she must be conceived after he met her.

>was Rosa just too young to remember, or was she born on Rokkenjima?
They say they moved to the island about 30 years ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7408776
Who's Ryukishi? I'm protecting Stephenie Meyer.

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko is a babby's first VN of the worst kind. It's a bad series, a clusterfuck of setting and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive shipping faggotry and META. The NEET anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the series itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.

However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for normal, sociable, underage faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The metaworld characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the magic, the peculiar, colorful clothes, the whole "colored text" faggotry and everything about the Umineko world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on love, and the overall preachiness of the whole series make it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes normals and underage retards eat this shit right the fuck up.

Umineko is basically THE series to attract the most hated visual novel fanbase known to /jp/, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every anon to troll the fuck out of this franchise and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Umineko threads ever encourage the normalfags to show their faces here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7409235
>complains about uminekofags raiding threads
>raids umineko thread with copypasta that already has its own thread
Reported. You already made a thread for this pasta, go use that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7409409
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7409409
/v/ is <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< that way

[Anonymous No.]

>>7410902
And /a/ is a little further. Go back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7411316
You're trying too hard, son.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7411896
Fucking summer.