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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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7144974 No.7144974 [Reply] [Original]

Is Nasu a good writer?
>Renowned for a unique style of storytelling and prose, Nasu is amongst the most prominent visual novelists in Japan.

>> No.7144976

Nope!

>> No.7144981

>>>/a/47443707
Butthurt guy from /a/ tries to find love in /jp/

>> No.7144982

Everything hes done is shit. or overrated crap.

>> No.7144985

Well, his style actually is unique, and he is prominent.

But he's most certainly not a good writer.

>> No.7144988

He is literally like a modern-day James Joyce.

>> No.7144993

>>7144982
How about you learn how sentence structure works before you criticize others' writing abilities you autistic failure of a human being.

>> No.7144994

Yes, I also think Urobuchi Gen did a good job writing F/Z.

>> No.7144996

>>7144993

maximum rage

>> No.7144999

Awful writer.

>> No.7145003 [DELETED] 

A good writer knows good english

Also you know its just animu crap if you look deeper into his works

>> No.7145005

>>7144999

Samefag.

>> No.7145014

>>7144993
I'm not writing for money tho,am I?

>> No.7145019

Most of /jp/ hasn't read his actual writing, so they probably aren't the best people to ask.

Also what the fuck is a visual novelist.

>> No.7145024

>>7144981
I didn't make that thread, but why don't you stay in /a/.

>> No.7145037

'good' writing can be interpreted plenty of ways though.

If you are talking about 'can I read it' or 'does the story have appeal' or 'are the characters interesting' then yes to a certain extent he has a large following and his works sell well.

But would you put him on the same level as a serious writer? Hardly. As a visual novel writer maybe, but if you notice visual novels aren't exactly for a educated audience.

So in a sense he is objectively a low class pulp writer, similar to Stephanie Meyer in artistic merit and worth.

>> No.7145066

madfags ITT

nasu is our generation's equivalent of a playwright... maybe not exactly shakespeare but certainly up there with ibsen, beckett etc

the main reason people (faggots) won't accept this is because visual novel = computer, computer = not a book, and as we all know, only books can have literary value am i rite

the other reason is that people respect oldfag writers purely because they are old and "classic", whereas nasu is alive now. give it 30 years and people will remember him as we do the greats now

>> No.7145078

I don't know how many doujin novels, and fucking fan fiction I've read that imitates his style, so he's got to be influential at least.

>> No.7145085

>>7145066
>give it 30 years and people will remember him as we do the greats now
That will never happen. He writes for an extremely niche medium. Sadly very few people will ever be exposed to his masterpieces.

>> No.7145092

>>7145085
>>7145066
I have no clue who is trolling anymore.

>> No.7145093

No.

Every other sentence in every fight is something along the lines of "If my penis is the size of a hot dog, then Berserker's penis is the size of a Redwood tree that is bending a various places in the middle. If the bending on my penis is like a puddle, then Berserker's is like the Pacific Ocean. I move back. (Berserker roars, blood splatter)."

Good end.

>> No.7145096

Mollusks.

>> No.7145101

>>7145092
You are.

>> No.7145104

>>7145092
>>7145085
>>7145066
same person

>> No.7145108

>>7145104
>>7145005
same hooligan

>> No.7145133

Anyone who writes ero that bad is just a horrible writer. Plus he has pacing issues

>> No.7145257

In my opinion, he's excellent at creating an interesting world, filling it with interesting characters, and creating interesting conflict and fights between those characters. The only problem is that the actual words he puts to paper don't live up to the ideas he has. I feel the same way about the author of Index. Tsukihime, Fate, and Index are all wasted potential. They're enjoyable, but they all could have been done better.

>> No.7145305

Well, no. Visual novels and video games and light novels with them to name a few are not media that can really have literary value. You don't need to ask if someone is a good writer if they only write for those media.

He's a good writer if you classify good by a lot of people liking your works, but then so is whoever wrote Twilight. If you're thinking of a good writer in the more serious sense, then obviously not.

But then, fucking JK "let's use an adverb every sentence" Rowling was given an honorary doctorate of letters, so who knows.

>> No.7145334

>>7145305
What is the list of acceptable media for literary value?

>> No.7145525

>>7145305
>are not media that can really have literary value
They said the same thing about photographs and "unrealistic" art when they started being used too. There is no form of media that is necessarily incapable of having literary value.

>> No.7146201

>>7145334

Well, the people who seem to grab the Nobel Prizes of literature seem to all write historical or political stories. So I guess that is the literary high light of the world.

I wouldn't read any of those though.

>> No.7146212

>>7145257
So chuuni.

>> No.7146235
File: 36 KB, 225x259, 1292269557194.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7146235

>> No.7146244

He is actually a pretty good writer though I personally think he is at his best in DDD, his writing in Tsukihime and FSN definitely has some flaws.
But he isn't really what I would call one of the best.

>> No.7146246

>>7145257
>index
The setting, characters and characters interactions are pretty good, but the plot....well, if we can say it is a plot, it's fucking horrible.

>> No.7146250

>>7146246
>setting, characters and characters interactions
You have no taste.
All of these are pretty horrible, the setting is a mix of everything the author think is cool without any consistency, the characters are all bland and undeveloped and the dialogues in general are really terrible.

>> No.7146251

>>7146235
I think by now Nasu fans are immune to trolls calling his writing shit.

>> No.7146252

>>7146246
>index reborn as a slice of life comedy.

>> No.7146253

He can writes great settings.

However, his exposition is completely garbage most of the time ("Masters do alliances Shirou... just like you and Rin, you guys are in am alliance" seriously") and he writes like a robot.

>> No.7146254

So what is the best eroge writer?
Or what is the eroge with the best writing?f

>> No.7146261

>>7146254

R07

>> No.7146266

>>7146254
r07, urobuchi, loserboy, scat-ji and whoever wrote oretsuba, because moogy cannot be wrong

>> No.7146267

>>7146266
oh, and I forgot tanaka ロミオ

>> No.7146279
File: 198 KB, 1280x960, thatdelicateneck.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7146279

>Is Nasu a good writer?

Sure why not

I mean,i'm definitely one of those people who thought that the Holy Grail setting he made in FSN was poorly used,but hey that is what Side Stories and shit are for. Besides I liked Tsukihime enough to finish reading it even without any BGMs or Sound Effects... Hell,i'd read it again if it had those quite happily. ...Still waiting on my Tsukihime Remake here,goddammit Nasu

>> No.7146280

By VN standarts sure. Not by normal standarts though.

>> No.7146281

>>7146266
But Moogy himself said that "for all the shit he gets, Nasu is an excellent writer"

>> No.7146283

>>7146281
That's because Moogy thinks good writing equal lots of difficult kanji. So Nasu is probably like a wet dream for him.

>> No.7146289

>>7146283
If Moogy says so, it must be true.

>> No.7146295

He's a good character writer, at least.

You can hardly deny that his characters stand out and feel developed compared to most of the characters you find in VNs. Even without knowing the story, if you compare a screenshot from F/SN with one from most other VNs (i.e. unoriginal, generic animu chicks) you can tell instantly which has had more thought put into it. There are no irrelevant characters in f/sn and tsukihime.

>> No.7146296 [DELETED] 

>>7146279
What is there to remean? Except for Satsuki faggoty.

>> No.7146300

>>7146295
I can deny this. You only think so due to the amount of fan material that make all the characters far more endearing.
In the games themselves they are all mostly mediocre.

Take FSN for example, the only character who feel well developed by the end is Shirou.
Play more eroge.

>> No.7146303

>>7146283
He should read Albatross someday.
Not denying its quality, but seriously.

>> No.7146307

>>7146300

Saber and Archer got plenty of development in their routes.

Sakura changed a lot through Heaven's Feel due to circumstance, but she obviously had a major perspective change at the finale (sisterhug) and all.

>> No.7146308

He is not a good writer, but an excellent worldbuilder.

>> No.7146309

>>7146307
I wrote "well" developed, sure development happened for a lot of characters but it felt half-assed most of the time.

>> No.7146311

>>7146300
Not the guy you're replying to but I've never read any fanworks of F/SN and I still think the characters are well written. I also have played plenty of eroge. So much for your reasons why any opinion differing from your own must be biased and uninformed.

>> No.7146312

>>7146308

this is essentially what i meant by >>7146295

I'm just not a good writer myself, lol.

>> No.7146314

>>7146303
If Moogy didn't read something, it's simply insignificant and it might as well not exist.

>> No.7146318

The main reason I don't like his writing is due to the way all the interactions feel really "robotic".
It's really annoying when it feels like the dialogs never flow smoothly, the characters don't feel alive at all.

>> No.7146321

>>7146318
Thats because VNs use Anime cliches, which are far removed from actual social interaction

>> No.7146322

>>7146321
All fictions use cliché, it's the role of the writer to make everything run smoothly.

>> No.7146345

>>7145257
The plot of Index is fucking retarded. E.g. the fact that the Misaka clone experiment is canceled because Touma defeats Accelerator. The scientists studying him had to choose between: a) Since a Level 0 defeated him, Accelerator is actually weak and not worth studying or b) the level 0 must have some mysterious power that needs investigation. Naturally the choose option a. Or the whole drama about saving an individual clone when they all have a hivemind which will persist no matter how many clones are killed. And this is just one example.

Another thing that annoyed me was characters constantly doing what appears to be a heroic sacrifice only to appear just fine a bit later. Trying to forcing drama out of a character dying only to reveal he was alive is annoying enough if done once.

And the characters are pretty annoying and/or stupid in general.

>> No.7146415

>>7146321
"actual social interactions" are usually pretty dull as well.

>> No.7146451

He's like a king or a Koontz.

Its not the best writing but its interesting and you want to keep reading their books about cowboys and frankenstiens.

>> No.7146454

>>7146345
Crowley was going to cancel the experiment regardless. His goal wasn't really to level up Accelerator, it was just a front to throw Misaka clones all around the world so that he can manipulate AIM fields to fuck up magicians.

Touma just gave him an excuse to tell the Board of Directors to can the experiment a bit earlier.

And yes, Crowley pulled Touma into Academy City specifically because of his Imagine Breaker and whatever power it may be suppressing. People get let into AC just so Crowley can powerlevel Touma. There is no need to look into Touma's abilities because Crowley, the guy running everything, already knows.

You can try to bitch about that however you like, but the city is run by somebody with plans within plans and backup scenarios for every little thing.

themoreyouknow.jpg

>> No.7146474

>>7146451

I love Dean Koontz, his funny books are hilarious.

>> No.7146532

>>7146454
>his
>he
>him
What the fuck are you talking about?

>> No.7146590

>>7146532
Crowley is generally referred to as a he.

>> No.7147257

He has some interesting concepts and wrote some cool fights, and you fags are still arguing about shit in it, so I say yes.

>> No.7147278

>>7147257
I do not conside Nine Bullet Revolver to be a cool fight.
I consider it the best fight in fiction.

>> No.7147309

I think his ideas are good, but his prose rather poor. Being unique is not always a good thing.

>> No.7147336

I think he's good at character/world-building. Maybe it's just me, though. For one thing, almost all the people whom I've talked to think Shirou is "one of the worst characters ever." Shirou was personally my favorite, but I guess my opinion is in the minority.

>> No.7147364

We can't tell whether or not he's a good writer since we read the second hand version off of amateur translations.

>> No.7147375

>>7147278
You obviously never read any good fight in your life.
It was just a very small scene anyways.

>> No.7147394

>>7147364
Exactly. Since most of you can't read his works in the original language, you are in no place to voice valid opinions about them based on fan-translations may differ from the original.

>> No.7147396

The only good thing about Heavens Feel was the fights. And Bad End #30.

>> No.7147410

>>7147278
The best fight hands down was the Sparks Liner High one.

>> No.7147413

Anyone who read FSN for anything other than the fights are idiots.

>> No.7147424

>>7147309
It'd be nice if I were fluent in Japanese so I could read the untranslated material and see if Nasu's prose is really like that, or if it's just an effect of the translation. I've always wondered; I have heard that translating his stuff isn't fun, though.

>> No.7147445

>>7147424
The translation is pretty bad, Takajun is a pretty shitty translator.
Though Nasu's style is definitely pretty weird and kinda infuriating for me at times.
But at other time it did feel strangely powerful.

>> No.7147471

>>7147336
>>7147364
You saying some bits of his writing sound less ridiculous in Japanese? He uses various sea creatures in his metaphors about female genitalia. Just saying.

Incidently, does anybody have screens of those bits?

>> No.7147473

>>7147445
I'd replay FSN if it got a new translation.

How long did the original translation take to make?

>> No.7147482

>>7144993
I find your lack of punctuation disturbing.

Nasu has good ideas, but doesn't write as well as he could.

>> No.7147484

>>7147471
Content may be the same but the prose is completely different.
It's like how you can express different emotions by saying the same things in different tones.

Though the translation was still passable since Nasu does have a pretty "mechanical" style, the translation of Swan Song was a lot worse.

>> No.7147487

>>7147471
>He uses various sea creatures in his metaphors about female genitalia.
Which actually does sound less ridiculous in Japanese. (Someone here mentioned 貝合わせ as an example a while ago.)

>> No.7147507

>>7147487
I don't understand, could you explain further?

>> No.7147518
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7147518

>>7147375
What did you exactly miss with Nine Bullet Revolver?
1) He fought to protect someone
2) He risked his life
3) He risked his sanity
4) He used a technique that was foreshadowed and not asspulled, while still being unexpected
5) The technique was absolutely impressive
6) The whole inner part ("Can you keep up with me?") was incredible
7) The risks of him using the technique actually occur
8) The music, oh god
9) The artwork

9 ARGUMENTS FIGHT WARKS

>> No.7147555

>>7147518
Pretty standard shonen like fight.

>> No.7147568

>>7147555
Then what would be an incredible fight in your opinion?

>> No.7147575

>>7147568
Umineko's magic battles.

>> No.7147598

>>7147575
Because...?

>> No.7147604
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7147604

>>7147575

>> No.7147611
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7147611

>> No.7147618

>>7147568
A fight where it feels like the character actually use his brain and not his plothax.
Also one where both sides have a chance to win.

>> No.7147626

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnJpBMFFWkA
Best fight in eroge now with more srw
Start at 4.40

>> No.7147632

>>7147618
While 9LBW didn't require brain, it was no plothax.
And fights where the characters "use their brain" is mostly full of exposition because someone may not get it the first time.

>> No.7147637

>>7147618
Everything is "plothax," essentially. It happens because the writer decides it's going to happen, so that the plot can proceed.

If your sole ability is to be a warrior, it'd be more "plothax" to suddenly outwit an evil Machiavellian antagonist, than to pass through the wind and truly become the bone of your sword in order to beat him.

It sounds like you like complaining about things that don't go your way because you didn't write it.

>> No.7147686

>>7147632
Nah, it's plothax.

I consider fights like the one between Archer and Shirou in UBW even better. All of Shirou's fights in HF were done with extreme hax (Archer's arm for everything). Also, by your standards, the fight between Goku and Buu, Gohan and Cell, and Goku against Broly were good.

Get out.

>> No.7147703

>>7147686
Plothax are
a)winning with abilities that are not supposed to win a certain fight (Caliburn killing Berserker 7 times)
or
b)pulling winning abilities out of ones ass (can't find an example in F/SN right now)

Those do not aplly here (Nine Lives was mentioned in Berserkers "file" in the status screen since the first route, Archer being able to use projected weapons like their wielder is also known since UBW)

>> No.7147719

>>7147637
>Everything is "plothax," essentially. It happens because the writer decides it's going to happen, so that the plot can proceed.
>Everything is 'plothax'

NOPE.
I'd say it's more that Shirou is doing something out of the ordinary in a situation where he'd lose or die. Basically, Shirou doing something he shouldn't be able to do originally or some deus ex machina appearing to help him. NLBW isn't the most fitting example, but the whole Archer arm thing is very convenient.

Surely you would say that Archer surviving for 4 days without a master, wasting all his mana fighting Shirou/Caster/Saber, taking 2 volleys of GoB, and then saving Rin at the end with a full powered Sword Spam is more hax than him fighting Shirou with just K&B no?

>> No.7147729

>>7147703
>b)pulling winning abilities out of ones ass (can't find an example in F/SN right now)
Kiritsugu's "lol u crush my heart but I don't have one"

>> No.7147734

>>7147729
Yup, thanks

>> No.7147820

The problem with nasu is that he doesnt write enough. Look at the tsukihime and fate/stay night backgrounds. So much material there. Look at all the side stories.

And he spent like 5 years or some silly long time without working on any VNs since Ataraxia. WTF? And now hes only working on that aoko or touko VN.

>> No.7147893

George Lucas level originality and vision, 4th grade writing ability
I wouldn't guess as to who will or will not be vindicated by posterity

>> No.7147906

You guys are really overrating the world building of the nasuverse.
I really don't see what is so good about it.

>> No.7147946

>>7147906

The Holy War is a really an execinal setting, a Battler Royal between magi and Heroic Spirit

Too bad F/SN discharged it for generic shounenshit and heroines

>> No.7147955

I'm planning an experiment /jp/. I plan to the writing from Tsukihime and format it into a book and "Americanize" it. The title becomes Moon Princess, the location is changed to a small town in Washington and change the Japanese names like Shiki to Sean. I'll then distribute copies to girls that loved Twilight and get their opinion.

>> No.7147990

>>7147955
SIKI=Shawn?

>> No.7147991

>>7147906

Imo, the only really good world he built was the FSN one. But even then,that is only because he under utilized it and did not realize just how badass it would be to summon a gender swapped Saint Nicholas then have hi-...Er HER, fight with President Nixon.

>> No.7148014
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7148014

>>7147396
I think you mean Bad End 40. MoS was just Shirou going full retard and repeating Kiritsugu's mistake instead of saving his innocent girlfriend. Femme Fatale was great, though, since Rin actually got what she deserved for acting like a bitch towards Sakura.

>> No.7148040

>>7148014
He probably meant Sparks Liner High, not shitty Mind of Steel or your hate of Rin end.

>> No.7148057

>>7148014
>innocent girlfriend

Nope.

>> No.7148075
File: 147 KB, 796x598, ilyandere.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7148075

>>7148057
She never kills anyone who's not an irredeemable bad guy outside of bad ends (and Illya's much worse than her if we count bad ends).

>> No.7148082

>>7148075
We're not doing this again. There's plenty of threads that lay out the reasons why she's a terrible character. Just look in the archives.

>> No.7148092

>>7148082
Too bad all those reasons make no sense and have been proven wrong several times.

>> No.7148100

>>7148092
It only took you 4 minutes to find and read them? I have to admit, I'm impressed.

>> No.7148112

>>7148100
It doesn't even take one minute to guess that it's the same old "Y IS SHE SUCH A KILLER SLUT xD" bullshit that Sakura haters tend to spout all the time.

>> No.7148114

>>7148112
Nope.

>> No.7148131

>>7148112
How can you believe in sluttiness if its just a theory (a geussus)?

>> No.7149696

Sakura is the only character with any depth.

>> No.7150355

>>7148075
She kills innocent people becuase IT IS NOT ENOUGH.
Its even mentioned in the disney end

>> No.7150446

>>7148057
Sakura hasn't consciously killed anyone by that point. The murders can be blamed on Zouken who's turning her into the shadow and sending her out. She just thinks she's having nightmares and considering what Xouken does to her it's natural for her to think that.

And the people whining about how mind of steel is better because Shirou doesn't betray his ideals have missed the point. Shirou does betray his ideal when he decides to kill Sakura since his ideal to save everyone, just as Kiritsugu had betrayed it as well.

>> No.7150450

>>7150446
>Shirou does betray his ideal when he decides to kill Sakura since his ideal to save everyone
Yet he does kill people in other routes, sure is following his ideal.

>> No.7150475

>>7150446
While I am not that fond of Mind of Steel, I would like to see Shirou become like his father, betraying his friends for the greater good and just being hardened like a motherfucker. The fights would be amazing and inner monologue of Shirou affirming that this is the right thing to do while a little voice tells him it is not.
And then at the end standard tragedy downfall at the hands of Kirei.

>> No.7150490

>>7150450
The difference is that in MoS Shirou consciously decides to sacrifice one innocent in order to save others. That's why Kotomine says he's like Kiritsugu; he kills someone and innocent that he loves to save strangers.

>> No.7150520

And Shirou still tries to save his enemies; e.g. sparing Shinji in Fate and trying to save his life in UBW. Plus his whole plan is to kill the Servants and let all the Masters go. The only human he kills is Kotomine who clearly demonstrates he's irredeemable.

>> No.7150522

>>7150490
I think it was a conscious decision to stab Kirigitsu with a bigass knife.

>> No.7150529

>>7150520
>The only human he kills is Kotomine who clearly demonstrates he's irredeemable.
So Shirou think of himself as judge and jury then.
If he really wanted to be a hero who save everyone he would try to save even the one who seem irredeemable.

>> No.7150530

>>7150475
Mind of Steel Shirou being able to use Archers arm without going insane (because they are simmilar and MoShirou is hardened) would be excellent.

>> No.7150539

>>7150529
He tries to. He talks to Kotomine to try and get him to back down rather than attack him on sight.

>>7150530
He couldn't use it because his magical abilities weren't up to that level though.

>> No.7150552

>>7150539
If he really wanted to uphold his ideals he wouldn't give up.
Batman had countless chances of killing the Joker, does he do it?

>> No.7150561

>>7150539
Aspull required, but otherwise Shirou wouldn't be able to fight Servants alone.

I think this would make a fantastic route if done right, or pure DARKNESS if done wrong.
Just imagine him confronting Kirei with a traced Excalibur (Dark Excalibur if you want to go for SYMBOLISM) and a scarred face, getting asked by Kirei "Look at what you have done, Emiya Shirou. You remind me of your father"

>> No.7150562

>>7150552
The last think we'd need is for F/SN to go on for more than 80 years.

>> No.7150569

>>7150552
But that is one of the problems with his ideal that he realizes in UBW.
If he lets the wrong ones live for no reason he will risk the lives of innocents.

>> No.7150575

>>7150569
And if he think he can judge the "wrong" ones he is nothing more than a huge hypocrite.
That's why the idea of good and evil in FSN is childish

>> No.7150582

>>7150575
The idea is pretty simple: You risk the lives of innocent ones because of your selfish desires you are evil.
I would not use the word childish but logical.

>> No.7150584

>>7150575
Though the point of the story is that Shirou's ideal is self-contradictory and impossible to attain. He understands that and still strives for it in UBW and is forced to abandon it for that reason in HF.

>> No.7150587

>>7150575
And complete moral relativism, where you can't even judge someone as wrong when they've killed dozens of people for their own gain, is juvenile.

>> No.7150615

>>7150587
>>7150582
Too bad not everything can be judged like this, the world isn't that black and white

>> No.7150634

>>7150615
When you judge by what works best for society this system works perfectly

>> No.7150650

>>7150634
Yeah, if you work by the system.
That's where the judge, jury and executioner come from.
If a single man try to be all of these he is nothing more than a tyrant.

>> No.7150658

>>7150650
But the mages associsation does not care.
If there is no working system, a man has to become THE LAAAAAAAAW

>> No.7151487

>>7150587
How so? If a man kills a bunch of serial killers and can be forever assured to only target serial killers, is he somehow villainous?

>> No.7151531

>>7151487
Now you are thinking in Kiritsugus

>> No.7151584

When people said japanese are no good at innovation, but rather at specialization I was skeptic. I mean, a whole race with the exact same way of thinking?

But the more I get into VN, anime and other media I'm convinced it is true. They can't think outside of sexual slavery, highschool, pagan rituals, anachrony, lonelyness and visual horror.

It was fun 20 years ago, but it got old now and it's hurting.

Why is this related to the thread? Well, you're asking if X is a good writer.

>> No.7151591

>>7151584
Funny considering you only play a small pool of VNs.
And innovations is overrated, new doesn't mean good.
You'd be hard pressed to think of original stories in any medias these days anyways

>> No.7151592

>>7150355
That's Angra Mainyu, not Sakura.

>> No.7151594

>>7151584
Well, unlike the West, a lot of japanese consumers buy things precisely expecting to find the same old shit in a different box. They're the epitome of thinking inside the box mentality.

>> No.7151595

>>7151584
Really? I'd say there are plenty of unique Japanese works.

You can look at western tv shows and make a similar argument that they suck at innovation.

>>
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