So ryukishi pull off shkanontrice excellently with Yasu in episode 7? What did you think of Umineko as a whole /jp/? And what scene/BGM impacted you the most emotionally?

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Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:33:14 2011 No.6907797 [Reply] [Original]

So ryukishi pull off shkanontrice excellently with Yasu in episode 7?

What did you think of Umineko as a whole /jp/?
And what scene/BGM impacted you the most emotionally?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:38:14 2011 No.6907829 the scene that impacted me the most was when I realized george hid battler's letter from shannon THAT FUCKING FAT ASS

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:39:14 2011 No.6907839 >>6907829 George hate thread?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:41:14 2011 No.6907845 >>6907829 So basically George is responsible for everything that happened.

Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:42:14 2011 No.6907847

Oh god, it's you again.

Favourite BGM from EP7 was 7 weights, favourite scene was EP1's shed with goldenslaughterer. I really enjoyed it, especially early-on. My favourite episode was 5 overall, and I really liked zts's discolor track.

I'm not really disappointed about the final answer, after all I was here just for the ride. I liked Ange's story too, I accepted everything, I haven't complained. I don't want to form an opinion, I just wanted to understand what Ryu-chan had to say with this story.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:42:14 2011 No.6907850 Do you want to do this thread every fucking day? Move on from Umineko already.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:43:14 2011 No.6907853 It was great. Emotionally: >scene Ep5 ???; Ep4 Ange on the island. >BGM 約束なまえのないうた voiced tsubasa my dear

Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:44:14 2011 No.6907856

>>6907797
>>where is your arm?
>I left it in the room back there. It'd be a pain in the ass to walk all the way back there to get it, let's just keep going.

Battler has been dethroned as the best male in the series

The tea party was done stupidly. R07 went too far out of his way to show that it was a fake end, especially with the set up in the gold room.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:44:14 2011 No.6907858 File: 357 KB, 640x480, 1283296270357.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is this the daily "Now that Umineko ended, what do you think..." thread? Enough of them, let's hate on George or something.

Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:49:14 2011 No.6907873
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>>6907858

This, enough you suck Ryuu-chan balls, you hater gonna hate. Yasu is male, no female fuck you.

Hating George is best. Just look at that fatass stealing letters and killing loli moms. And being fat. God, could he possibly be fatter?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 13:56:14 2011 No.6907892 As a whole? Silly, but entertaining. Scene I liked most was when George went through his test in Ep. 4. I also liked the letter scene it Ep. 7 because watching Yasu in despair is also entertaining.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:05:14 2011 No.6907920 >>6907892 It truly was fun seeing George trying to crush Gaap under his fat.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:05:14 2011 No.6907921 File: 129 KB, 1024x768, checkoutmahmerheens.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6907797 lol,no. As a whole, it's pretty emotionally draining, but all the struggles that meta Battler went through seem cheapened by the end.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:07:14 2011 No.6907925 >>6907921 It's like I'm really playing a tabletop miniatures game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:08:14 2011 No.6907928 >>6907921 Just see it as a different stories - reality and Rokkenjima, because that's how it's supposed to be.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:22:14 2011 No.6907963 >>6907873 Prove it, that Yasu is male.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:23:14 2011 No.6907968 >>6907963 R07 draw breasts on every female characters, even 6 years old Ange. Leon is completely flat.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:25:14 2011 No.6907972 >>6907963 it's fine if she has a cock. it adds to her appeal.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:26:14 2011 No.6907975 >>6907968 Even Ryuukishi with all his stupidness can understand than make an ambiguous character and put it tits it's a bad idea. Ange may be 6 years, but there is no reason to hide she is female.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 14:34:14 2011 No.6907997 Wasn't the direction I expected, nor wanted. But whatever, I can always forget Chiru happened, and force my own delusions of what transpired.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 16:06:14 2011 No.6908413 Did anyone ever release UMG8? Fuck.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 16:21:14 2011 No.6908472 >>6908413 I believe it was linked near the end of the Comiket Upload Thread 10 >>6833525

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 16:26:14 2011 No.6908479 >>6908413 Huh? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBWPEuzy-ks

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 16:32:14 2011 No.6908500 >>6908479 I think he means the whole thing, not just some faggot uploading the video to youtube and not sharing. They've had those uploaded for fucking ever now

Anonymous Thu Feb 3 16:35:14 2011 No.6908514
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I loved the ep 7 tea party, my favorite songs would have to be ridicule and executioner.

Hell I just liked it for the trolling. And Ep7 seriously outdid even ep 3 in trolling the poor protagonists.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 16:40:14 2011 No.6908541 Anyone else hoping that japanese group do some fan voice dramas for EP7? I've been dying to hear one, especially for the tea party. They did excellent for both EP5 and EP6.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 16:48:14 2011 No.6908567 >>6908541 btw, they've finished EP6 teaparty yesterday

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 16:56:14 2011 No.6908596 >>6908567 Really, where? I'm on the EP6 page but the Tea Party still isn't clickable..

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 17:00:14 2011 No.6908623 File: 968 KB, 1021x3494, 16357825.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6908596 They uploaded to a different website for some reason http://hisagitei.aki.gs/index.html

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 17:05:14 2011 No.6908642 >>6908623 Thanks for the link! Kind of disappointed, they still have to do the ???, I guess that means EP7 is still a long ways off..

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 17:07:14 2011 No.6908654 >>6907829 Battler wrote letter, and george doesn't hide them, it's just he never mention shanon in it. he's a fag

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 17:47:14 2011 No.6908803 File: 1.11 MB, 1200x1824, 1293337642989.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Fucking George.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 17:49:14 2011 No.6908813 Enjoyed it, even though the last episode as a whole (not the actual ending) was kind of a letdown. Most impactful scene was EP7 Tea Party. Most impactful BGM... probably Nameless Song, The Executioner, discode, discolor, ALIVE... a bunch of others.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Thu Feb 3 18:18:14 2011 No.6908942 >>6907829 How do you know that Battler sent a letter to her?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 3 18:22:14 2011 No.6908973 >>6907829 I don't remember it being revealed that George hid a letter from Shannon. Anyone care to tell me when this happened?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 01:39:14 2011 No.6910744 >>6908973 Maybe it from EP8?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 03:42:14 2011 No.6911178 >>6908973 EP1 second chapter. Did you even paid attention when reading?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 05:06:14 2011 No.6911358 >>6911178 Quote or that never happened. Because I'm sure it didn't.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 05:10:14 2011 No.6911374 >>6910744 There was nothing about it in ep8. There's almost nothing about our old human characters, with quiz right answers mini-scenes being exceptions. Almost whole episode is Ange's drama and magic fights.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 05:43:14 2011 No.6911443 File: 309 KB, 640x480, 1296816175.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6911358 Pic related.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:11:14 2011 No.6911509 >>6911443 Good job, faggot. nscript.dat not contain this text.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:11:14 2011 No.6911511 >>6911509 No shit sherlock.

>>	Sakura !RAILgUnr8s Fri Feb 4 06:22:14 2011 No.6911526 File: 164 KB, 818x662, orekano.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I was just relieving my self to this and thought this was weird.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:28:14 2011 No.6911540 >>6911526 Yasu can't stop killing people it seems. And bet that Tom is Yasu too.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:30:14 2011 No.6911543 >>6911509 >nscript.dat not contain this text. You seriously had to check? you must be trolling me, I mean, I couldn't make it more evidently fake.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:37:14 2011 No.6911564 File: 33 KB, 300x300, 1295884395225.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6911543

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:41:14 2011 No.6911581 George haters are stupid goats from animesuki.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:53:14 2011 No.6911594 >>6911581 Haha good try. Animesuki licks Ryuu-chan feets and don't dare to hate any of his characters or shitty plot twists. You can't call out to Animesuki whenever someone does something you don't agree.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:55:14 2011 No.6911595 >>6911594 >You can't call out to Animesuki whenever someone does something you don't agree. Clearly I can if I've been doing it up until now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 06:58:14 2011 No.6911601 Only EP 1 - EP 5 where any good. the last tree episodes sucked donkey balls.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:03:14 2011 No.6911613 >>6911601 >where

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:03:14 2011 No.6911614 >>6911601 EP7 instead EP5 and I agree with you. Seriously what had EP5 you people like it so much? Magic battles and trolling?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:05:14 2011 No.6911620 >>6911614 >Seriously what had EP5 you people like it so much? Magic battles and trolling? In that case they should love episode 8. The best episodes were 1 and 7.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:13:14 2011 No.6911627 1 was good, 2-5 was horrendous. Didn't bother with the later ones.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:23:14 2011 No.6911641 これは酷い抱き合わせ商法ですね。田中ロミオで100点、竜騎士で-100点です。うみねこで酷い目に遭って竜騎士の作品は二度と買わないと誓った矢先ですよ。田中ロミオの描く超格好いい主人公が、竜騎士に「くそくそひぃぃぃぃいぃぃぃぃ」「うおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおお」とかやらされた日にはもう、想像するだけで恐ろしい。 How many buyers will Key lose due to the backlash of episode 8?

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:25:14 2011 No.6911643

>>6911614
>Seriously what had EP5 you people like it so much? Magic battles and trolling?

Not the other fag, but I thought EP5 was an amazing climax for EPs 1-4.

- There was a rather good mix between gameboard and Meta - although, I'd have liked a bit more focus on the gameboard and the mystery.
- Erika was a rather good antagonist.
- The fantasy scenes were rather good
- Battler actually puts to use his knowledge from EPs 1-4, and actually manages to look good this episode
- Battler reaching the truth and the battle afterwards was, perhaps, one of the most cool scenes in the game.

>>	Sakura !RAILgUnr8s Fri Feb 4 07:25:14 2011 No.6911645 >>6911641 Probably few to none.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:26:14 2011 No.6911649 >>6911641 Was R07 doing a joint with Key or something?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:27:14 2011 No.6911651 >>6911641 Considering >he only does one route >people love romeo enough to overlook it >KEY has zombieslaves that would buy any of their shit Maybe a few, but would regain them later because teh reviews will probably be very positive.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:27:14 2011 No.6911655 >>6911649 Rewrite.

>>	Sakura !RAILgUnr8s Fri Feb 4 07:28:14 2011 No.6911659 >>6911651 And even then, it's not like R07 came up with the plot or the characters, he is just penning it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:30:14 2011 No.6911665 >>6911659 Exactly, and Lucia could be less annoying than Chihaya when she calmed the fuck down and started being rational.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:33:14 2011 No.6911671

>>6911643

All summed up in magic battles and trolling. The non meta part was shit, the human characters part had 0 importance, everthing they did was to lead more meta-battles.

>good mix between gameboard and Meta
There wasn't. As I said gameboard only served the meta-battles purpouse. Only EP6 did this worse.

Only can agree with Erika, but as good as a character is it can't save a whole episode.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:37:14 2011 No.6911678 File: 429 KB, 640x480, sayounara.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6911620 We will, don't worry. Once people actually read it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:38:14 2011 No.6911680 >>6911678 ZOMG ERIKA IS A PIRATE XD Only these kinds of idiots will like episode 8

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:39:14 2011 No.6911681

>>6911671
I think the gameboard was rather important, actually. We saw that there were chances that the twilights were actually faked. There was also the probability of groups colluding. Solving the epitaph (and this was Battler), making it known to everyone didn't really stop the murders for happening.

Also, the whole deal with Natsuhi was rather good to guess who was behind most of these things, yet, at the same time, there was something rather suspicious about these phone-calls.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:40:14 2011 No.6911682 >>6911680 >stop liking what I don't like

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:45:14 2011 No.6911695

>>6911681

As I said it only serves for meta purpouse, and answering the mistery as much.
Maybe I'm not explaying myself. I mean non meta-characters roles sucked excepting Nappi. You know when they are soulless dolls at the trial? That's pretty much what they are during the game. The former games managed to keep two interesting stories, the meta fights and the struggling in the gameboard to survive. There is no such a thing in EP5.

It maybe just me.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:52:14 2011 No.6911706
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George "hide the letter" doesn't make any fucking sense

I'd like it to be true because i hate Joji, but:

1- Everyone was watching him, unless fatty is a magician i doubt he could pull something like that.
2- Clair clearly stated she was delusional about the ponyshit, it didn't really mean anything for Battler

So yeah, he's just a fat fag. He probably did enjoy Shannon expression where "NO LETTER FOR U, SORRY" though.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:53:14 2011 No.6911713
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>>6911681
>I think the gameboard was rather important, actually. We saw that there were chances that the twilights were actually faked

People still believe this?
Yasu really killed in Ep 1-2, deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:57:14 2011 No.6911722 >>6911713 She also killed in 3-4. Those were fictions with her as the culprit. Seriously, everytime I check an Umineko thread I see at least a couple people spouting bullshit when they obviously didn't understand anything they read. Every single time.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:57:14 2011 No.6911724

>>6911695
>Maybe I'm not explaying myself. I mean non meta-characters roles sucked excepting Nappi. You know when they are soulless dolls at the trial? That's pretty much what they are during the game. The former games managed to keep two interesting stories, the meta fights and the struggling in the gameboard to survive. There is no such a thing in EP5.

This is very relative, I think. I always thought that very few characters in the gameboard actually managed to shine given a particular episode - like Natsuhi in EP1, Rosa in EP2, Eva in EP3, the cousins in EP4. Of course, there were other scenes that made other characters stand out a bit. However, in my opinion, it wasn't anything particularly worth mentioning, and furthermore, most of those scenes were Meta as well.

I don't know. I'm just going by the fact that EP5 is where my enjoyment for Umineko ended. I simply didn't enjoy the following episodes at all - there were some cool scenes here and there, but that's all I can say about them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 07:58:14 2011 No.6911726 >>6911713 I don't see how that disproves fake murders theory.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:00:14 2011 No.6911731 >>6911713 I know, and people also ended up getting killed in EP5, no? Either, my point with the fake twilights is that this may show this whole thing may have actually been planned in advance.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:00:22 2011 No.6911732 [DELETED]

File: 251 KB, 640x480, dreamofmurders.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6911722
>Those were fictions with her as the culprit

No shit nigga.
What i'm saying is, she was going to follow the roulette on Rokkenjima prime too.

Of course, the roulette gave a result she didn't except.

Beside, it doesn't have anything to do with anything i said, that anon was talking about FAKE TWILIGHT in ep 1-4.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:01:14 2011 No.6911733

>>6911722
You are the one who don't understand shit.
EVERYTHING we saw is fiction, but they all have the same level of "truth" in them.
The stories have to be coherent and consistent with the heart of Beatrice and the setting of the event.
Your fake murders shit can't happen simply because Yasu definitely killed in episode 4.
Saying that she didn't intend to kill "in the reality" would destroy the consistency.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:02:14 2011 No.6911735 >>6911726 The fake murders theory was originally bullshit people made up when they couldn't quite grasp the fact that the episodes being shown were fake accounts, not kakeras. Hanging on to it now is just pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:02:14 2011 No.6911737 >>6911733 >episode 1-4. Fixed

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:05:14 2011 No.6911743
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>>6911726
>Clair: I won't resist fate
>Beato: I was going to follow the Epitaph and kill if you didn't solve anything
>THERE NOTHING DISPROVING FAKE MURDERS

Let alone that is retarded if she does fake murders in real life and real murders in "fiction", Rokkenjima closed box, her "bird cage", loses meaning if she can do whatever shit she wants inside it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:07:14 2011 No.6911746 >>6911743 You shouldn't use that screenshot as proof, as Bern's tea party isn't necessarily any more true than other episodes. But I agree with you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:08:14 2011 No.6911749 >>6911743 >that is retarded if she does fake murders in real life and real murders in "fiction" No more retarded than making a love confession by killing your entire family.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:11:14 2011 No.6911758 You are now realizing that Krauss, Eva, Rudolf and Rosa are siblings of Shannon. And Rosa was responsible for her sister's death.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:11:14 2011 No.6911759

>>6911749
>No more retarded than making a love confession by killing your entire family.

She was trying to do the same thing her crazy father did, calling up a miracle. More is the risk, more hight is the percentage of the miracle succeeding.

If it didn't work, well, she'd would have let fate decide.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:12:14 2011 No.6911762 >>6911758 >And Rosa was responsible for her sister's death. Rosa is also a major accomplice in ep 2 and possibly one of the adults that would go rampage and you are worried about that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:14:14 2011 No.6911765 >>6911762 Episode 2 is just made up. We have no idea what actually happened on Rokkenjima besides the fact that only Battler, Yasu and Eva didn't die there. Compared to those two things, Rosa's accidental killing of her sister is much more tangible.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:14:14 2011 No.6911766

>>6911733
1-4 follow Beato's "heart", to cover the truth with herself as the culprit. From 5 the GM changes, the characters need to abide by their set of rules and the tale must match with the outside of the catbox, that's all.

>>6911735
It was "bullshit" made to fit with the themes and clues of the games in Chiru. Pathetic is the will to blindly have Yasu as a deranged serial killer that most people seem to have.

>>6911743
It's the whole "heart" of Beatrice. To cover up the truth by making herself the culprit. And Bern herself says the Tea Party was partially lies. Not that it was even needed, Kyrie speaks to the goddamn clouds.

>>6911759
But let fate decide what? If she killed everyone there was nothing to decide. She made one last gamble to try and have Battler remenber, while hopefully passing the headship to one of the siblings. Makes way more sense that way.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:15:14 2011 No.6911768 >>6911735 >The fake murders theory was originally bullshit people made up when they couldn't quite grasp the fact that the episodes being shown were fake accounts, not kakeras. But Meta-world exist!

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:16:14 2011 No.6911769

>>6911759
>She was trying to do the same thing her crazy father did, calling up a miracle. More is the risk, more hight is the percentage of the miracle succeeding.
Except her father did so in fictions, written by her.
Maybe he turned on the bomb to mentally pressure HIMSELF in tough situations, but he didn't actually go killing everyone to press them to solve his problems.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:17:14 2011 No.6911770 >>6911766 Yasu resigned herself to the horrible fate of making a happy fun fake murder mystery for her good pal Battler's homecoming and it all just went horribly wrong. You realize not even R07 writes that badly, right?

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:17:14 2011 No.6911771

>>6911766
Every episodes follow Beatrice's heart, even the tea party of episode 7.
Episode 1-4 aren't anything special.

The only reason there were fake murders in episode 5-6 was because Erika was there.

And Yasu's original plan, her roulette, wasn't there to hide a horrible truth or whatever, read Clair part again.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:21:14 2011 No.6911776

What would be the purpose of the message bottles being written beforehand and then cast out in the fake murder mystery theory? Makes zero sense. Yes, she planned to take on the blame herself, as much as putting the blame on the assumed to be fictional witch that is her is taking the blame. And she planned this well before the events, with the message bottles. It's almost as if she was determined to either become a true witch, or live a normal life with Battler. And becoming a true witch has the crucial part of killing everyone and tossing out those message bottles.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:26:14 2011 No.6911790 >>6911776 Was it actually confirmed that the bottles were written beforehand or it's just a conjecture?

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:27:14 2011 No.6911793
File: 202 KB, 640x480, r07bitching.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6911766
>1-4 follow Beato's "heart", to cover the truth with herself as the culprit. From 5 the GM changes, the characters need to abide by their set of rules and the tale must match with the outside of the catbox, that's all.

The rules of the Catbox are the same. X, Y, Z.
She's a "Bird in a cage" because she's trapped in the catbox where infinite (but not really infinite, she understood that later) can be reach, but all of them lead to a bad ending. The GM still have to abide to the catbox rules. Otherwise, if she can do whatever she wants, she wouldn't feel trapped at all.

>It was "bullshit" made to fit with the themes and clues of the games in Chiru. Pathetic is the will to blindly have Yasu as a deranged serial killer that most people seem to have.

No, i understand Yasu and why she did it. I pity her, she's a sad person that felt cornered, which life was manipulated by many for her crazy rapist father and has a gender problem.

>It's the whole "heart" of Beatrice. To cover up the truth by making herself the culprit. And Bern herself says the Tea Party was partially lies. Not that it was even needed, Kyrie speaks to the goddamn clouds.

Bern also UNDERSTAND YASU WAS PATHETIC MARTYR. SHE MOCKS HER FOR THAT.
Why would her contradict herself in the tea party later? Beside, that scene simply show us Yasu's mindset, and she's far from a deranged serial killer, but more someone that completely give up on everything.

>But let fate decide what? If she killed everyone there was nothing to decide. She made one last gamble to try and have Battler remenber, while hopefully passing the headship to one of the siblings. Makes way more sense that way.

It was never ALL about Battler. "They" couldn't decide their fate. She even said that. Perhaps, one of them was going to find what they seek. Perhaps, they would have be joined and released. Perhaps, someone would have put a stop to that folly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:29:14 2011 No.6911795 >>6911790 Unless you think Yasu wrote three long stories AFTER murder plan and dealing with the subsequent backfire, it's confirmed. Characters in the VN suppose that they were written beforehand because it's unreasonable to assume otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:33:14 2011 No.6911804 >>6911766 > And Bern herself says the Tea Party was partially lies. Many people said that, but Ange doesn't give a fuck about Beato Why would Bern change her words?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:35:14 2011 No.6911806 >>6911795 >>6911790 We don't know the real content of the bottles, trough. We don't know if they contain Meta (i doubt, since it got confirmed in ep VIII) and if Meta-Beato is following her script 1:1.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:37:14 2011 No.6911810 >>6911806 Episode 8 wasn't confirmed in 8, stop saying bullshit. And the letters probably contains meta.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:39:14 2011 No.6911814 >>6911810 It was.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:41:14 2011 No.6911819

>>6911810
The letters probably don't contain meta as that is likely Battlers own mind. But resorting to "we don't know the actual contents of the letters" is a pretty weak defense. If they're anything like what's presented, they would have been written after.

Because otherwise they would have to be written after real murders started. Somehow, I don't think Yasu would have time for that.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 08:43:14 2011 No.6911823

>>6911806
They had to contain enough material to be intriguing enough to spark the forgeries. Tohya's work is supposed to feel similar to the original messages, so you'd have to say that they're all extremely brief. That's just twisting the facts for this theory to fit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 09:16:14 2011 No.6911876 Battler forgave her. He APOLOGIZED to her. If this isn't a proof that she was planning fake murders i don't know what it is

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 09:18:14 2011 No.6911880 >>6911876 You are really stupid, seriously. There is no direct correlations there

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 09:23:14 2011 No.6911891 >>6911880 Yes, because would forgive someone that was going to murder his family

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 09:26:14 2011 No.6911902

>>6911891
You can forgive someone who was completely desperate and pressured into this.
And you can apologize for being one of the factor that pushed her in this situation.

Once again, you can see this scene from a lot of ways, you immediately going "it means fake murders for sure" prove that you are really stupid.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 10:00:14 2011 No.6911982 Halfway through the tea party of ep7 and oh. god. this makes up for the shitty ep itself. HOLY SHIT KYRIE

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 10:34:14 2011 No.6912054

>>6911876
It was meta-Battler not real Battler. And in any case, maybe he was a masochist with a martyr complex. Ryukishi is simply showing the POWER OF LOVE!

As others have said, if Yasu didn't expect everyone to end up dead, sending off these bottled letters in advance makes no sense. And why would Yasu call her actions a folly if they were a simple game for Battler?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 10:54:14 2011 No.6912126 >>6908413 >>6908500 http://www.mediafire.com/?kdprvolkfuk9t0c Google does wonders

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 10:59:14 2011 No.6912151

Anyway, can someone explain the "fake murder mystery" theory to me? Because I find it hard to believe everyone on the island would simply play along with Yasu's scheme for no reason even if they didn't know that Yasu was planning to blow up the island in the end. The adults were desperate for money. I don't think they'd have time for a game.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:03:14 2011 No.6912160 >>6912151 I think people are assuming Yasu confronted the parents alone on the first day(like Beato in the chapel in Ep. 2) and bribed them with the bank account money and possibly gold.

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 11:08:14 2011 No.6912175

>>6912160
What would have stopped them from simply taking the money instead of playing along with Yasu's scheme? They were pretty arrogant after all. Why jump through a bunch of hoops for a maid? And what about the cousins? They would have had to play dead too. When did Yasu make them his helpers?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:11:14 2011 No.6912184 >>6912175 >What would have stopped them from simply taking the money instead of playing along with Yasu's scheme That's what they probably did. And look how it turned out.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:12:14 2011 No.6912189 >>6912184 Haha, not the anon who asked, but you got me there.

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 11:14:14 2011 No.6912194

>>6912184
Should't Yasu have anticipated that? Even if he hadn't (which makes little sense since he knew how arrogant and desperate they were), what would have been Yasu's plan for dealing with the cousins? They would have had to play along too for the plan to work.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:14:14 2011 No.6912198

>>6912175
Yasu probably had Nanjo and Genji prove who she was, meaning she could make things complicated if she wanted to claim headship. Arrogant as the siblings are, they would probably choose to play a silly game they didn't know was rigged to a bomb and get easy money rather than deal with that, since Yasu didn't want to be the head anyway. Just a guess, though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:16:14 2011 No.6912204 >>6912194 Not really. Epitaph describes 13 sacrifices, so adults+servants+Kinzo is more than enough.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:17:14 2011 No.6912208 >>6912194 Wouldn't they be obedient enough if their parents told them to? Is it me, or do we still need some work to solve what can be solved?

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 11:19:14 2011 No.6912219

>>6912204
Kinzo? You mean you think that Natsushi and Krauss would have produced Kinzo's corpse for Yasu's game?

Also, where's the in-game evidence supporting that theory? Saying that "Yasu was a pitiful and precious flower that Ryukishi desperately tries to make us sympathize with so he couldn't have been a murderer" doesn't cut the mustard since he did the same thing with a sadistic torturer and murderer who took pleasure in slaughtering 2000 civilians.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:21:14 2011 No.6912225 >>6912219 >You mean you think that Natsushi and Krauss would have produced Kinzo's corpse for Yasu's game? It's exactly what happens in some of the episodes, isn't it?

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 11:24:14 2011 No.6912232

>>6912225
1. Yasu might have known where it was hidden especially if the servants were involved in hiding it.
2. Even if he didn't, perhaps Krauss thought it would have been a good idea to have Kinzo "murdered" when other people were dropping dead.

Isn't concealing someone's death for years a crime in Japan? Why would they admit to it?

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:27:14 2011 No.6912235

>>6912219
Again, not someone who supports the theory, but here's another guess as to the evidence being used.
-If the fake murders are being played out like in 4, with Battler just getting calls saying "PEOPLE ARE DYING YOU GOTTA DO SOMETHING", they don't necessarily need bodies, since bodies without injuries don't really fool anyone.
-Rosa going to Kinzo's study in 2 with Shannon and coming back saying Kinzo was there
-Again, the Chapel scene in 2 with Beato and the adults
-Battler's "confession" game in 6, where the adults played dead

That's just off the top of my head, though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:31:14 2011 No.6912248 >>6912232 Okay, replace Kinzo with Nanjo. There are still 13 people.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:34:14 2011 No.6912256 >>6912248 And Nanjo's family got some hush money. What about 07151129? Is it explained in EP8? Or maybe it's already explained and I forgot about it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:42:14 2011 No.6912268 >>6912256 All the families got money from the vault, not just Nanjo's

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:42:14 2011 No.6912270 >>6912256 0715 - Battler's birthday. Explained in ep3. 1129 - the day Beato became a true witch (found gold), explained in ep7.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:45:14 2011 No.6912278 >>6912268 Just saiyan Nanjo's included. >>6912270 Thanks. I've must missed that in EP7... somehow.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 11:46:14 2011 No.6912283 >>6912256 How could it be "hush money" when they didn't know anything?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 11:50:14 2011 No.6912289 >>6912283 Well, I suppose the families would have all the right to investigate what happened, right? The money is kind of a message saying 'don't give a fuck'. But you're right. Let's just call it 'pity money'.

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 11:55:14 2011 No.6912302

>>6912235
These are all suppositions though. Yasu never implies it was all a game. And episode 6 has Battler being in on the trick so that doesn't really fit anyway. And again, why did Yasu send these bottled letters in advance if he didn't expect everyone to end up dead? And why would Yasu call his actions a folly if they were a simple game?

Besides, episode 7 presents Yasu as being desperate, feeling cornered, on the edge and with nothing to lose. And the fact he has a ton of imaginary friends when he's at least 19 and has intense self-loathing due to his mutilated doesn't make him a paragon of mental health either. So this desperate, half-crazy individual is driven to... play a fake murder mystery game?

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:00:14 2011 No.6912312

>>6912302
>And again, why did Yasu send these bottled letters in advance if he didn't expect everyone to end up dead?
Who says she sent them in advance? She was alive after the island blew up. She could have easily released them when Battler was asleep in the tunnel with her.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:03:14 2011 No.6912318

>>6912302
>why would Yasu call his actions a folly
Yasu is dead. It's Clair who tells the tale. And she's a witch, personification of Yasu's fictions. She even fights with a fantasy detective. Yasu can't do that. So all she says refers to fiction, that has its roots in reality and Yasu's real backstory.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:04:14 2011 No.6912321 >>6912302 Yasu was never presented as desperate, though.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:07:14 2011 No.6912326

>>6912302
Well the fact it was a game rigged to a bomb, regardless of how slim the chances were of it going off before the game ended, might be the case of the "folly". I'm not gonna defend it anymore than that, though, since thinking a fake murder extravaganza was just the thing to welcome Battler back to the island with (given how emotional he is about everything) is almost brain parasite level stupidity. I think it comes down to people desperately trying to rationalize why Battler would forgive Yasu if she had a clear intention to kill, no matter how caged in she felt.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:13:14 2011 No.6912339

>>6912219
Natsuhi and Krauss DIDN'T produce Kinzo's corpse for the game. They were planning to have Kinzo "go missing", so the sensible thing would have been to bury the body or dump it in the ocean. They just didn't count on Yasu having the other servants hijack it in case she needed a spare corpse for her plot.

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 12:20:14 2011 No.6912354

>>6912312
Even if that were the case, it doesn't change the fact that he had written them in advance though and thus probably expected that to happened.

>>6912326
Agreed. I think Ryukishi has Battler forgive him as a demonstration of the power of love rather than because Yasu was an innocent snowflake. Besides, Hanyuu offered forgiveness to Takano, so forgiving mass-murderers isn't something new in Ryukishi's stories.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:22:14 2011 No.6912357 >>6912326 If Battler had really remembered his relationship with Shannon, wouldn't he have realized it was a game right away, considering how it deliberately mimics the setup of And Then There Were None?

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:24:14 2011 No.6912361

>>6912354
The entire point of Hanyuu offering forgiveness to Takano was proving that she was a god and thus able to absolve people of their sins, in contrast to Takano who considered herself to be a god but neglected that aspect of being one.

Battler doesn't do that. He tells Beatrice she has no sin in the first place and apologized to her earlier. Even if you assume that this is to show the power of love and forgiveness, it makes no sense for Battler to be the one asking for forgiveness. Hanyuu doesn't cry and beg Takano to forgive HER.

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 12:27:14 2011 No.6912373

>>6912361
Battler feels guilty for forgetting his promise. Which I agree is completely retarded since it was simply a few careless words from a 13 year-old kid, but Umineko beats us over the head about how the magnitude of a sin depends on the person being sinned against so Battler considers it a terrible crime and holds himself responsible for what Yasu did.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:33:14 2011 No.6912395

>>6912357
He didn't remember, though, that was the point of his "sin". Also, I doubt Battler would make the instant connection of "people seem to actually be dying" with "hey, I used to read mystery novels with Shannon like forever ago". That's if you believe in the fake murders at all, anyway.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:36:14 2011 No.6912411

>>6912373
Except that the game itself deliberately points out how odd Battler's reaction is, which is not something a narrative does when it wants people to swallow something.

Battler was sympathetic to Beato to a point even before EP5, but it was always with the caveat that she was killing his family and therefore he was going to kill her. There is no sense of "we were mutually torturing one another" in his breakdown. Instead, Beato is framed as the only one being hurt, which is impossible if Battler "understands" she was plotting to kill his entire family--something that would have hurt and tortured him as well.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:38:14 2011 No.6912416

>>6912354
But Takano is sick. If you don't forgive her, you may as well not forgive everyone, including Rika. Well, and excluding Mion, because she doesn't have guts for it. So "nothing new" point is wrong.

What's "nothing new" is some character taking all the blame for other peoples' actions. First, Hanyuu as a god and personification of the curse and decease. Then Beato as a witch.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 12:38:14 2011 No.6912417 >>6912321 All of Yasu's agony about Battler having forgotten their promise and the constant hope that he'll appear and take Yasu away with him doesn't seem like desperation to you?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:38:14 2011 No.6912419 why would kyrie and rudolf kill everyone for a credit card that could perfectly have zero yen on it

None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 12:42:14 2011 No.6912434

>>6912416
Takano only presents symptoms in Matsuribayashi-hen after her plan goes kaput. There's no evidence that she was sick in the other worlds. And even if she were, she killed the construction foreman, Rika's parents and planned to vivisect Satoko years before 1983 so she couldn't have been level 5 for that long, especially since the Irie institute personnel monitored themselves to ensure they didn't go above level 1.

And Hanyuu isn't a personification of the curse or the disease.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:45:14 2011 No.6912442 To be fair, Yasu objective was not to trigger a massacre, but to "trigger" a miracle, something with very little astronomical possibility to happen.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:47:14 2011 No.6912452 >>6912278 >Thanks. I've must missed that in EP7... somehow. It was the last line in Yasu's backstory.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 12:48:14 2011 No.6912456 >>6912442 If someone drove a bus full of people into a wall because he hoped that it would quantum tunnel through would that person be absolved of their crime?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 12:53:14 2011 No.6912473 >>6912456 It's not the same things. Beside, i'm not saying she was completely right, but her backstory and the setting made me understand and pity her.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 13:02:14 2011 No.6912501 >>6912473 I don't pity Yasu. In my opinion his crazy scheme to blow up an island with 17 people in the hope it will trigger a miracle more than offsets the fact he was a crazy transsexual with a shitty childhood.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 13:30:14 2011 No.6912567

>>6912501
As much hate as George gets, going through Ep. 7 actually made me feel more sympathy for him than Yasu. Every important scene about the guy centers on how he would take on the world and abandon his family rather than leave Shannon, and in contrast Yasu couldn't bring herself to have anywhere near that kind of courage (like telling him the truth, for one). Also, saying Battler was the one with the sin was pretty weak, but I guess the delusional can't be held accountable when the delusion is "love".

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 13:50:14 2011 No.6912608
File: 137 KB, 564x581, Shannon molesting herself.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yasu is shit, and so is Umineko's "solution". I have no idea how people can defend it when it doesn't even begin to make sense at any point. It's a complete non sequitur. It's not even a proper tragic past, since she seems more "slightly inconvenienced" than "tormented". Yasu's whole scheme, and thus Umineko's plot, is like the famous business plan of the Underpants Gnomes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 13:51:14 2011 No.6912610 >>6912312 >Who says she sent them in advance? Reread EP4.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 13:58:14 2011 No.6912634

>>6911695
I don't know how anyone can still actually care about human characters. After about ~3,5 repetitive episodes of their useless struggle I only viewed them as pieces on the gameboard. It's how the game tries to make you look at it, after all. Do you care about feelings of your pawns when you exchange them in chess? No. Instead it's the behavior of players, interaction and discussion about the games that's interesting, like in any game. And those things are represented by metaworld here.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:00:14 2011 No.6912649 >>6912610 Ange just assumes that the bottles were sent before, because the murderer wouldn't have time to write them on the island. That's not a proof.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:01:14 2011 No.6912652

>>6912608
>. I have no idea how people can defend it when it doesn't even begin to make sense at any point

I never understood why people keep saying this.
Umineko makes a lot of sense to me, how the catbox works, the roulette of fate and everything. There are some things that are left out ambiguous (such the meta world) but overall i can see the scheme of the whole thing.

Of course, some people like to believe in bullshit like "Kanon is fiction", "Fake murders" so of course it appears like an incomplete mess to them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:13:14 2011 No.6912699 >>6912652 I believe in both "Kanon is fiction" and "Fake murders" and it all makes sense to me.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:13:14 2011 No.6912700

>>6912395
That doesn't stop Yasu from having expected him to connect the dots. But you also have to keep in mind that you're partially judging the "people seem to actually be dying" based on the first two games.

In EP8 Beato said that the message bottles were basically rough drafts for the actual mystery she was going to present. After those two games, Meta-Battler called her out for being excessively gruesome and cruel. As a result, we end up with EP3, where the first twilight is technically clever instead of gruesome, and everyone suspects it's a just prank until someone other than Yasu kills Rosa and Maria. Maybe Yasu herself realized that she'd gone overboard with those first drafts, and that's why she discarded them?

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:17:14 2011 No.6912727

>>6912608
Because secretly being the product of an incestuous relationship between the head and his blood-related daughter when you've grown up being treated as a useless maid is a whole lot of 'slightly inconvenienced'.

Yasu's past maybe not be over-the-top like say Takano's but her suffering is much more psychological and internal. The existence of Beato, Claire, Shannon, etc speaks for that in volumes.

I'm kinda surprised that this is even a problem with some you guys, but at the same time I'm kinda not. The mystery side of Umineko probably brought a lot of logical, puzzle-solving types who don't find any interest in the emotional, human factor of the mystery. When confronted with Yasu's actions, they stop thinking and just declare her/him insane. Yeah, her actions and decisions are illogical (probably because they are emotionally motivated) but they come from a lucid, thinking mind.

Heh, with that kind of loose definition of insanity, I think prisons would be a lot more empty.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:19:14 2011 No.6912745

>>6912700
Dunno, I haven't read 8 yet, so I've refrained from trying to use any of the leaked info in what I've said. Although throwing the drafts out to sea is a strange way to simply discard them; could be that after things started going bad she threw them out in hopes they would be found and their gruesome quality would draw attention away from the truth, since they have her as the culprit.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:23:14 2011 No.6912761

>>6912634
>I don't know how anyone can still actually care about human characters. After about ~3,5 repetitive episodes of their useless struggle I only viewed them as pieces on the gameboard.
I think that says more about you then it does Umineko, anon. Anyway, it doesn't have to be that black and white. Can't you find interest in the characters both as people and pieces? I know I did.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:23:37 2011 No.6912758 [DELETED]

>I don't know how anyone can still actually care about human characters. After about ~3,5 repetitive episodes of their useless struggle I only viewed them as pieces on the gameboard.
I think that says more about you then it does Umineko, anon. Anyway, it doesn't have to be that black and white. Can't you find interest in the characters both as people and pieces? I know I did.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:25:14 2011 No.6912769 >>6912745 She thought it would be more mysterious to publish them that way, like in her favorite Agatha Christie novel.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:26:14 2011 No.6912773 >>6912745 So she was writing mystery novels, these drafts and "Land", and when shit hits the fan, she decides to set them into the sea to cover up the truth. And then she slips and drowns.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:35:14 2011 No.6912807

>>6912634

They are interesting characters, much more than meta ones in my opinion. Only in chiru they were neglected and treated as mere pieces in a chessboard. The fact they never acomplish anything in the end doesn't make the bits about them trying to do so worse.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 14:46:14 2011 No.6912872

>>6912761
It was interesting how witches played with them and their feelings, yes. That's why ep5 is so great. But at the same time Battler's comeback was great too, so I enjoyed both sides in this ep. Other episodes somehow lacked in this aspect, with ep8 (Ange& Erika denying them the fuck away; then Ange vs Bern) being the closest, but still far from the that feeling in ep5.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Fri Feb 4 15:50:14 2011 No.6913181 >>6912700 But episode 3 was written by Battler not Yasu.

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 19:11:14 2011 No.6913997

I enjoyed trying to map the magic pieces with normal pieces. Like Genji and Ronove. It lets you try and think as Yasu while in her Beatrice role and hanging out with her servant friends.

The stakes are confusing though. It would kind of seem that they represent something near Yasu, but also something near Ange. Easy to guess bullets for Yasu, but why would Ange have bullets?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 19:18:14 2011 No.6914017 File: 69 KB, 696x799, 1293672938808.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6913997

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 20:34:14 2011 No.6914212 >>6913997 Ange had Amakuza bullets

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 4 20:41:14 2011 No.6914240 >>6913997 so stakes and siestas are bullets? what's the difference then?

Anonymous Fri Feb 4 21:04:14 2011 No.6914306

>>6914240
Probably depends on who's holding the gun/doing the killing. Stakes are used for Yasu's plot, and because they're related to Beatrice they were probably something Ange obsessed over in the diary. Siestas are presented as basically sure-fire killing machines, so they probably represent the adults with guns once things went to shit.

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