/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

So she is two people and in THREE YEARS no one, except people that where with her in this mess, noticed anything.

Ever.
No one noticed the same face, the similar voices. The fact that they NEVER appeared together.
The people in love with her didn't notice anything.
Nor did the other servants that worked there.

[Anonymous No.]

Deal with it or you're a goat.

[Anonymous No.]

Well, we didn't notice the similar sprites

[Anonymous No.]

>The people in love with her didn't notice anything.

George and Jessica have love, therefor they can't see past the illusion of Shannon and Kanon and how Yasu is tricking them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902522
Everyone did.
That's one of the main reason ShKanon was one of the most popular theory even early on.
People just didn't think R07 would really use such a stupid plot device.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902532

I bet they are the same people that thoguht Shannon was Kohaku and didn't realize Umineko was about finding Beatrice's heart

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902522

We did, but it would be silly to try to base anything off his art style.

Also the fact that there are a few cases of family members having the same face style.

[Anonymous No.]

Wow, I didn't think about it before. You must be the first to notice that. Umineko fans sure are smart.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902522

I like how DEEN made them even more similar

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902533
Making Yasu Kohaku would have made her a far better character.
The truth that is her "heart" is just a retarded mess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902547

For people that can't read

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902549
No, for people who don't suck Ryuukishi's cock relentlessly.

Everyone can understand Yasu's motive and what made her that way, doesn't mean you can't call it the retarded shit it is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902555
> it the retarded shit it is.

How so?

It made sense with her character and everything we have been show

[Anonymous No.]

The people in Umineko are all idiots. That's the moral of the story, stupid people die horribly. Of course, marginally smarter people die horribly in Umineko also.

I guess the overarching idea is that everyone in Umineko should just die.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902564
So Evatrice knew the truth all along.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902559
Playing 2 roles at the same times for 3 years: retarded.

The whole pity Beatrice that have been going since the beginning when she was just a drama-whore: retarded

The whole "fate has always been mean to me bawwww" when people like George or Jessica had their fate decided for them as well yet they didn't go around endangering 15 people: retarded.

The roulette that she wanted to summon when she herself didn't really believe in magic mean that you can't even say that she was just insane.

She is just an illogical mess of a character, your standards are really fucking low if you think she is in any ways good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902559

Being internally consistent does not necessarily make a story good.

It doesn't take a genius to come up with Shannon-Kanon as a solution, people looked for other things because they were hoping there was a different answer that wasn't as dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902595
That's pretty much it, for most people. I realized Shannon and Kanon never were seen together rather early on, and their similarities, but dismissed it as a red herring, because come on, the answer cannot be that easy, nor that ridiculous.

Unfortunately, Ryukishi proved that yes, he is fully capable of shoving an answer in our face that is so displeasing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902610
And talking down to you while doing so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902595
>>6902610

Yes, but how many people DID try to understand why Shkanon did it? Or Kinzo motive?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902580
Don't forget that she chose to go through with the roulette mainly because Battler came back, meaning Battler got to live with the incident being partly his fault for the rest of his life.

The fact Battler risked his life to try and save her in the end is really more than she deserved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902683
>more than she deserved
How so? She didn't kill anyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902706
She set up the situation that led to people dying, plus I don't think a fake murder party is exactly how you should celebrate your reunion with the crush who forgot you after six years. Going around being told "THE FAMILY'S DYING WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING" just to figure out it's that girl you made that one promise to and she was just dicking you around? With a bomb involved?

Not really anything I sympathize with....

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902640
What people don't understand is the true "heart" of the tale; Yasu didn't plan to kill anyone, it was just a game. Things just went horribly wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902723
I think reading this just completely spoilt Umineko for me...
So no one dies? They all pretending? Whaaa? I'm up to the part where they are getting off the boat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902723
Maybe she didn't even set up the bomb, but the real murderer did, after he solved the epitaph and she explained to him how it works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902726
We don't know for sure what happened, duh. The fact is just there was an explosion. We can just guess based on the behavior of the people close to her, what she wanted to do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902726
Don't worry, they're all dead. Her game ended up getting out of control. And she IS the culprit in 1-4 but those are fictions written with her as the culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902723
>Fake murder theory

Did you people even read ep VII?
You made look Clair confession a giant pile of crap. She repeated many times and was going to kill, and she also stated a small incident would have occur even if Battler didn't come back, but nothing comparable to Rokkenjima murders.

But not only that, the starting point of the catbox and Rokkenjima prime should be the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902739
We know the basics of what happened, just because it's not spoonfed doesn't mean it's not told.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902740
>Don't worry, they're all dead. Her game ended up getting out of control. And she IS the culprit in 1-4 but those are fictions written with her as the culprit.

From Meta-Battler pov they aren't

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902751
guy you linked to- I'm not actually a fan of the theory, but I mentioned it considering it seems to be the most popular one on /jp/ right now. My point was that, even if you think Yasu was a poor girl just trying to play a game, the game in question was needless, cruel, and asking to fall apart given the adults involved.

[Anonymous No.]

The people who really don't understand shit are the fake murders apologist retards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902756
It's not the most popular theory, it's just one faggot who keep samefagging to force it.
Anyone who has more than 2 brain cells know that it's bullshit

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902751
I'm not going to argue on this, I'm tired of doing so and it's useless. But Claire is the personification of the tales, where she does kill.

"Perhaps on of us will find what they seek."- Kanon, Shannon and Beatrice

"Or, perhaps all will be joined and released."- Yasu dies.

"Or, perhaps someone will put a stop to this folly."-Someone will recognize Yasu for who she is and see through the act.

It's really up to you to choose how you see things after you're done with reading Umineko, that's how Ryu wanted it anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902770
You wouldn't usually call a simple fake murder game "folly".
She was going to do something completely desperate and horrible, that's the whole point.

[Anonymous No.]

Beatrice on the boat clearly said:
妾は、あの島で、幾百の死を弄んだ、罪深き魔女だ。
"I'm a sinful witch, who toyed with **several hundred deaths** on that island."

Now, unless you assume that she has been sacrificing people all those years for practice, there's no way she killed them in reality. Furthermore, she already toyed with them, so it's not about her intentions either. How can she toy with their deaths? By writing mystery novels. Does she need to kill them physically? No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902795
That's meta-Beatrice. She is talking about meta stuff.
And I don't see shit there that talk about fake murder.

Even if Yasu wrote about her killing the people on the island, it doesn't mean she wasn't going to do this in the "reality" if the roulette pointed that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902815
If she was going to, Battler wouldn't forgive her so easily, nor does it make sense for her love situation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902822
Maybe Battler forgiving her so easily was a metaphor for readers who are quick to sympathize with fictional characters regardless of what they've done once they're fleshed out enough!

[Anonymous No.]

If Yasu is a boy isn't he?
No boobs for Battler to grope ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902836
That didn't stop him from groping Maria.

[Anonymous No.]

Why did Battler forget Yasu in the first place?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902822
Battler forgave meta-Beatrice.
And he isn't without sins either.

Even if it's Yasu, he only forgave her like you forgive someone sick.
Or it's just R07 retarded logic.

No matter what, it's not a proof that she planned fake murders

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902838
Because R07 wants you to pity the poor little Yasu

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902838
He didn't talk to her for six years

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902848
But he didn't forget anyone else at the island...

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902860
In case you didn't notice, Yasu was a servant.

[Anonymous No.]

This shit again? OP, Kanon NEVER existed. There is no just a thing as Kanon x Jessica. That's all Yasu's (and Battler's) delusion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902860
Everyone else was family who he at least traded letters with or had indirect communication with through Rudolf. He didn't forget Shannon (he didn't know Yasu), the sin was that he forgot about the promise he made to her. It's still iffy on whether Battler sent Shannon a letter with the others and George simply hid it or if Battler actually forgot who Shannon was until he came back and saw her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902838

He didn't forget her, he forgot his promise to her

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902870

not_this_shit_again

Several characters mention Kanon having worked there for 3 years
There are scenes outside the catbox where many characters interact with him
The starting point for the catbox should be the same
Clair said a small incident would still have occurred, an unexplainable incident, she was talking about Shkanon love duel, one of them was going to die
"Kanon is fiction" was made by people trying to make Shkanontrice more credible, but it:
- contradicts several clues
- doesn't make Shkanon more credible, SHANNON STILL HAS TO PASS AS KANO WITHIN THE STORY

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902513
Krauss and Natsuhi don''t care about servants
Jessica and Gohda have been proven to be fooled about people existing when they don't really already (Kinzo)
Genji and Kumasawa know and cover for her.
None of the other family members are around long enough to even think about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902941

What about George

You know, they guy she dated for YEARS

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902949
They met like, once every few MONTHS. When his family came to Rokenjima, and the few times he and Shannon were able to go out on their own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902949
That's probably why some people say "Kanon was just a thing between Jessica and Yasu". Still, if we go with the idea Yasu was actually playing both roles actively, it's probably fair to say George didn't see Kanon much (for obvious reasons), and that the similarity between the two in looks is just part of the reason they call each other siblings.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902953

I'm sure you can make as many retarded explanations you want, but everyone knows that NO ONE noticing anything ever is stupid as fuck

Yasu - master of voices and faces

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902870
Battler remembers both Shannon and Kanon in ??? of episode 8, try harder

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902841
>it's just Ryu's retarded logic even if it's completely illogical
Nice argument, bro. This way you can deny even any factual proof.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902962
OK. Put yourself in the situation.

Do you REALLY think that not seeing two similar looking people at the same time that the first thing you think is that they're the same person? That's not a normal situation at ALL.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902979
If someone I know irl crossdressed and appeared in front of me I'm pretty confident I'd know it was them immediately. Even if they were really good at disguising their appearance you really can't disguise your voice effectively.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902987
>you really can't disguise your voice effectively

Tell that to the multitude of professional voice actors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902979
Put ShKanon in the real world, tell me it would work.

There were many people working on the island, there was people who were there all the time like Jessica, Natsuhi, Krauss or Gohda yet nobody ever realized anything.
And yes people can at least ask questions when they see 2 different peoples have the exact same appearances and never appear at the same time.
And saying that Natsuhi didn't care about the servants is fucking stupid, it's directly stated that she was always behind Shannon and that she was nice to Kanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902991
You're telling me Shannon is on the level of a professional voice actress? Where did she receive this amazing training exactly?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902991

Yasu - master of voices and faces. Also, professional VA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902532
>>6902610

People is asking why nobody notices Shakanon and answering themselves. You didn't considered it as a valid argument because it was retarded.
Well, and to think two of your servants are the same person in disguise wouldn't make you think "nah, no way, red herring, it would be retarded"

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902975
You are the one without any actual proofs, idiot.

You think Battler "forgiving" Beatrice mean she had no ill intent which is fucking stupid.
It could be seen from thousand of way, heck forgiving in itself mean absolving someone from its sins pretty much, it doesn't mean that they didn't anything bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902994
>Put ShKanon in the real world, tell me it would work.

Things like it have happened before. Situations where people have pretended for YEARS to be something or another. People really aren't THAT suspicious. Heck, being close to the person in question might actually make it harder to figure out then an outsider observing it. Because they have grown used to, and overlook, quirks that might give it away.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler forgave Yasu. Then drowned her.

Accidentally he fell off the boat too and lost his memory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902997
Some people are just talented at changing their voice.

My brother can make himself sound COMPLETELY different if he wants to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902987
Not if you practiced. People are saying George would notice, but George only ever wants to see Shannon so he's probably barely ever talked to "him" and I can believe George would probably take the "we're siblings" thing as a find enough excuse because he doesn't want to consider the fact he's being lied to.

After that it becomes a matter of "how come nobody questions them never showing up at the same time?". Aside from just saying Genji and Kumasawa covered for them (for example, Shannon is characterized as clumsy and forgetful, so they could say she overslept when all the servants gather to be assigned chores, whatever), they don't necessarily have to be working the same shifts all the time.

"Kanon" is a scrawny 16 year old boy, as long as Yasu has a practiced "Kanon voice" to use I doubt anyone would care enough to take a second glance considering how antisocial Kanon is anyway. It's still stupid, but it's not impossible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903012
This is a terrible argument for a mystery novel. It's on the level of small bombs. Well, some people are just really talented at science so they would be able to make an ingestable bomb. Unless specific evidence of Shannon having a natural ability to disguise her voice is presented it can not be assumed.

[Anonymous No.]

> "...Without love, it cannot be seen? ...Hah. That's backwards. Because of love, you end up seeing things that don't even exist."
>Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice need love to exist

George and Jessica don't notice because they are in LOVE WITH YASU.

They are to caught by Shannon and Kanon that completely overlook things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903021
It's "brought into evidence" that Yasu likes to pretend to be other people, whether by herself, in her mind, or our loud. It's not a stretch to assume she practices making voices for all of her "characters" when she's alone, at least not nearly the same stretch as talking about small bombs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903028
So basically, in a MYSTERY NOVEL presented evidence is ignored. That surely doesn't violate any of Knox's or Dine's rules. Umineko is a decent story, but its claims to being a true mystery are a bunch of horse shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903021
I wasn't arguing from a mystery perspective anyways. I was just saying it's POSSIBLE. We don't know HOW Ryushiki imagined Kanon and Shannon sounding when he wrote them anyways. It's a novel, it's text. "How a character's voice sounds" is an unneeded thing to portray.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903035
Is it brought into evidence in the first 4 episodes? Because the answer is supposed to be solvable and no new evidence is supposed to be provided after that point. I don't recall the story ever mentioning in the first 4 episodes that Shannon ever faked her voice to sound like someone else. I don't even remember it ever mentioning anything about the culprit faking his voice. There was of course the retarded bullshit about faking ones name so I'll give him that much, but it still doesn't explain how a person is able to fake their voice, appearance, and location while working with their fake self.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903036

Jessica and George are not detectives, they are a two teenagers in love
They are not really different from Natsuhi or any character in the series who see things

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903039
No it is not. If the solution to a mystery is dependent on a character faking her voice, then there must be some evidence provided to that ends. Even if he did say explicitly in red "Shannon is capable of convincingly switching her voice" it would just be an excuse not to use a logical answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903036
No Knox

No Dine

No Fair
In other word it is not a mystery

That appears in the second, hidden (most likely discarded but left in the game as an easter egg) opening to the game.

The "game" content of the episodes are mysteries, this is a fact. But the metaplot, about the witches and stuff, that ISNT one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903006
You don't really have any proof that she did something in the 'real' world (not fiction) too, so shut up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903043
Evidence must always be provided to the reader for every fact in a mystery novel. Ryu can't simply expect the reader to know if George or Jessica are capable of discovering Shannon's gender. In a true mystery he would be required to point out that fact in some way during the novel. Umineko is not a mystery. It is fantasy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903021
Because there's no fact that stated Shannon is incapable to change her voice, then the other side of coin is also present, you moron.

It's called Devil's proof and has been mentioned for at least 6 episodes. You were saying?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903042
I remember hearing Ryukishi once said it was technically "solvable" by Ep 2, but I can't confirm that. Either way, realizing Shkannon was the culprit is not the same as understanding why, which 1-4 don't fully tell you aside from hints and small pieces.

If you were able to "completely" solve the mystery with just 1-4, there wouldn't be much need for 5-8.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903053

Except, you know, an entire episode devoted to explaining her roulette of fate

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903042
It was never ever mentioned that Shannon and Kanon kinda looked like each other, nobody ever thought or said anything about this

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903058
That's not how you use devil proof, moron.
Just another proof of Umineko's retardation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903065
Yes it is, and it's just you are the one that's damn retarded to think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903058
I was saying:

-The detective must not light on any clues which are not instantly produced for the inspection of the reader.

- The reader must have equal opportunity with the detective for solving the mystery. All clues must be plainly stated and described.

- No willful tricks or deceptions may be placed on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.

-The detective novel must have a detective in it; and a detective is not a detective unless he detects. His function is to gather clues that will eventually lead to the person who did the dirty work in the first chapter; and if the detective does not reach his conclusions through an analysis of those clues, he has no more solved his problem than the schoolboy who gets his answer out of the back of the arithmetic.

-The method of murder, and the means of detecting it, must be be rational and scientific. That is to say, pseudo-science and purely imaginative and speculative devices are not to be tolerated in the roman policier. Once an author soars into the realm of fantasy, in the Jules Verne manner, he is outside the bounds of detective fiction, cavorting in the uncharted reaches of adventure.

-The truth of the problem must at all times be apparent — provided the reader is shrewd enough to see it. By this I mean that if the reader, after learning the explanation for the crime, should reread the book, he would see that the solution had, in a sense, been staring him in the face-that all the clues really pointed to the culprit — and that, if he had been as clever as the detective, he could have solved the mystery himself without going on to the final chapter. That the clever reader does often thus solve the problem goes without saying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903063
Presumably you don't have to describe the characters when the medium is a visual one. The large number of people who came up with Shkanon seems proof to me that this at least was fair.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903061
Except, you know, she's the culprit of her mystery novels, where she toys with people's deaths.

[Anonymous No.]

Sorry to ask, I remember Beatrice or someone saying "If you like mystery novel, having read Agatha Christie and _____ 's works is natural" or something like, with the second author being a japanese one.
Anyone remember who that was?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903059
You can at least make an assumption which is closer to the truth later revealed in ep 5-8., if you are really perceptive and imaginative.

But yeah, it would only go as far as 'theories'.

[Anonymous No.]

>shitty writing apoligist

holy shit you really like to eat up all crap that's shoved down your throat, hm? you probably believe in global warming and that islam is a peaceful religion too

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903067
Holy fuck you are fucking retarded.
You probably learned the devil proof concept from Umineko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903059
All evidence to the mystery is supposed to be locatable in the first 4 episodes. The last 4 are called the answer arch for a reason. A mystery isn't a mystery if you can't figure it out until the answer is given. In that case it's just drama.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903072
It was actually Erika.
>As far as I know, the mystery novel with the most dead people in a serial murder was 'And then there were none' by Agatha Christie, which had 10 deaths. In the realm of Japanese mysteries, it's probably 'The Zodiac Murders' by Shimada Souji.
>If you like mystery, Christie's a must-read. If you're Japanese, then it's only natural that you've read Shimada Souji's works all the way through. ......Are you sure you've been reading enough, everyone?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903086
that was it, thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903069
Clue: Shkannon, despite being a person, was at least been recognized and treated as two different person and gender in the game of at least 7 episodes. She's at least 14 years old. In this clue, many boys with late puberty still have their voice not deep enough to pass them as a man.

therefore, it has been presented that the voices alone is enough to separate them as different individual.

Seems pretty clear to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903081
No, you just know the 'definition', not how they are used.

You are retarded, it's painful to even recognize you are exist here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903071

The roulette of fate existed in Rokkenjima prime too, that's the point.

If you want to scrap the Roulle of fate, fine, but then you are essential scrapping all of Clair character

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903077
You're retarded.

Tip. I don't like it =/= bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903093

"She was treated as two different people" is not evidence that she is one person faking her voice. There was also no evidence given that people would not be able to recognize someone pretending to be two people (Actually, it's funny if you think about this. Ryu said it was impossible to mistake Kinzo for anyone else. So, no matter how Kinzo dressed or faked his voice he would not have been misrecognized. Shannon's just special I guess).

Also, the idea that Shannon isn't recognized proves that Shannon wouldn't be recognized is laughable. You're using the answer as evidence of the answer.

[Anonymous No.]

Always related

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903110
Then this case would happen according to your idea:
1. Shannon put up a goat mask
2. Wears heavy formal clothes
3. Voices muffled

Everyone: Shannon, is that you?

*Replace Shannon with any character you want, except Maria and Kinzo.

And Kinzo is impossbile for people to disguise as, because of whaaaat? 6 toes. Does anyone else have it?

It IS possible for any person to be recognized as a different person because of having DIO, not limited to voices. And it doesn't need clues, because it is GENERAL KNOWLEDGE.

Case closed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903149
The ridiculous thing about "6 toes" is that it's hereditary - the Ushiromiya family had it in its history before Kinzo! So anyone in the family tree could theoretically have them too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903082
I thought they were called the "core" arcs for Umineko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903161
Do some research about Polydactyly and what's the probability of inheriting one.

Knowledge = power

[Anonymous No.]

>>6902987
>Even if they were really good at disguising their appearance you really can't disguise your voice effectively.
Yasu is good at disguising her voice. Her actual voice is like Beato's. This is in the text, for crying out loud. Remember the scene in EP4 where Battler talks to her on the phone and it's like someone he's never talked to before? It's because that was the one time she was talking normally. If you never hear her real voice in the first place then, yes, it's easy to disguise her voice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903102
Who's scraping her character (she has no, btw, because she's just a shell)? She's fighting with a fictional detective - personification of mystery, because she's a "witch" - personification of Beato's tales and her crimes are fictional as well. Is it too hard to imaging that her back story is true, but she didn't kill anyone?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903174
Polydactyly is autosomal dominant, meaning a child has a 50% chance of inheritance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903212

Roulette involved killing at some point

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903227
Fictionally. Plotting to kill is a crime. Battler says she's sinless in the real world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903198
>Her actual voice is like Beato's
Nope. Yasu decided on her witch's voice when she invented her witch character. Her real voice must be Shannon's, because otherwise all the people will recognize something. They know the servant named Shannon, who's been working there for 10 years, since she was brought from the orphanage, before inventing all her imaginary friends, and no one else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903198
Battler never talked to Kanon in that episode, did he?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903241
Nope. Kinzo says Yasu's voice resembles her mother's, and that's when she's as Yasu not Shannon. Shannon is shy, withdrawn, and at work. No way she's talking normally there like she would in her room.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903262
Doesn't matter. Natsuhi doesn't recognize the voice on the phone with her in EP5 either, and she's certainly talked to both Kanon and Shannon within the same episode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903237
Because she is crazy, Crazy people are sinless.
Him saying this doesn't prove that she didn't plan to kill people if the roulette decided so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903217
Seeing how Kenzo's first 4 child don't have one, it seems Kenzo's 6-toes genetic is less dominant.

Therefore it is highly probable Lion/Claire won''t have one.

[Anonymous No.]

Shkanon left me raging and is awfully retarded for a mystery novel, but God knows I enjoyed the pseudo-mysteries and meta-battles more than anything else in my life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903269
>Because she is crazy
Not the context of the conversation, sorry. Battler tries really hard to make Beato believe that the end result isn't her fault, and even if she thinks it is, she still deserves to live and be happy. That's not something a sane person does a few hours after his entire family has been killed unless the person he's with is actually blameless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903263
I don't see a contradiction here. Shannon is shy, but Beatrice purposely talks very boldly, and impudently. Her Beatrice character has nothing to do with Beatrice 2nd, who was rather shy herself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903282
>Stop enjoying things I don't like!

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903283
She didn't have any ill intent.
For her the roulette was just a way to find a miraculous happy end and be happy.

That's why he forgaves her, not because she didn't plan to kill anyone, but because what she did was a simple act of someone who tried to find a miraculous happy end.

[Anonymous No.]

As other people said, we as an audience only really suspected Shkanon because we knew it was a story with hidden answers and were actively looking for clues of things amiss. People just living day to day don't do that, especially when they don't give a shit like Krauss, Natsuhi, and most of the family, or someone like Jessica, who's not very bright and goes into denial about disturbing things. It really isn't natural to automatically assume a couple of servants who resemble each other must be the same person cross-dressing--especially when you have trusted people casually reinforcing and backing up the facade.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903323
You don't have to be actively looking for clues to see that Shannon and Kanon are the same person, that's why it's retarded.

The simple fact that some people try to defend this crappy plot device really show there is really some delusional fanboys.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903328
Yeah, no. EP6 was a pile of shit and EP8 was pretty terrible too. But Shkanon as it's presented in the text is fairly plausible. People have pulled off stranger things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903323
>or someone like Jessica, who's not very bright
How is this supported in the story? She seems like just your average, normal teenage girl, aside from her fake asthma and helping to fake Kanon/Shannon/Yasu/Kohaku/Hisui/Mystique/Chameleon's death in EP1.

Okay, so she's actually not normal at all, that's irrelevant. For this little stunt to be pulled off, everyone living on the island, aside from the people involved in keeping up the farce like Genji, would have to be painfully, irreparably stupid and possess zero awareness of the environment around them.

This wasn't a mystery, or a fantasy. This shit was just natural selection at work, people this dumb pretty much deserve to be cleansed from the gene pool, the fictional world of seacats is overall a better place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903340
It's not about ShKanon being plausible or not.

Simply that it's a stupidly crappy plot device.
The simple fact that people saw it since the first episode and dismissed it because they thought that R07 wouldn't lower himself that much is proof.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903345
Oh, okay. So "it works, but it's stupid because I say so."

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903345
>The simple fact that people saw it since the first episode
You be trolling nigger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903328
>The fact that people enjoying things I don't like make me rage
Kid, drink milk and go sleep already. You got school tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903354
It's stupid because of the horrendous suspension of disbelief required to force it down our throats. It's easy to ignore impossibilities like casting magic missile everywhere in fiction because we understand the universal laws of that world can be different from our own. The problem arises when human beings in these stories act in such a way that is ridiculous, like those odious Left Behind novels.

No one figuring out, no one even goddamn suspecting something strange is going on there, is terribly hard to swallow. You do not live in close proximity to someone for three years and not notice something is awry, no one has such an ironclad facade that they can put up 24/7. There would, should, be discrepancies that the family notices, even if it's only something they pass off immediately after as foolish, but we get none of that.

That's not to say the answer was difficult, I was almost positive of this by EP3, the problem is no one in the story even considers the possibility aside from our beacon of hope Erika, and she got screwed over by a bullshit technicality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903386
>You do not live in close proximity to someone for three years and not notice something is awry, no one has such an ironclad facade that they can put up 24/7.

She didn't have to put it up 24/7, so I don't see the issue here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903283
>That's not something a sane person does a few hours after his entire family has been killed unless the person he's with is actually blameless.

But there one talking is Meta-Battler, not Battler

[Anonymous No.]

I like to believe that Jessica knew but didn't wanna be known as a dike so she was in denial.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903394
And again, stranger things have happened in reality. There's the story of Bernard Bouriscot, who was in love with a crossdressing male spy, was together with him for twenty years, lived with him, slept with him, (thought) he had children with him, and didn't suspect a goddamn thing and refused to believe it until the courts it forced him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903386
Oh please, your beacon of hope failed to see they're the same person when together with them in one room with detective authority. It's her own character that screwed her over, if she payed attention and wasn't only focused on her own made up bullshit explanation she'd figure out ShKanon trick in the final riddle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903409
The apologists are really stupid.
That's why these arguing with the Umineko fags is so annoying, it's like having an arguments with cultists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903394
It's a figure of speech. The only time she could safely drop the act was in the confines of her own room, which, considering her job, I would assume she doesn't have the luxury to do that often, aside from sleep.

Considering Jessica is friends with Shannon, and loves Kanon, you'd figure at least a few times she would propose they all get together and hang out, maybe have Shannon wingman the shit out of her to hook up with Kanon. I guess Jessica really is stupid, because after the ninth excuse that one of them can't go, a normal person would either think something is up, or they're just fucking with her for their own amusement.

Oh, or maybe the alternative is Shannon did one of those totally wacky Mrs. Doubtfire situations where she pretended to go to the bathroom, switched clothes and went full Kanon, then back to Shannon a few minutes later. To the tune of Yakety Sax.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903386
>Hi, I've never read a single mystery novel in my life, but am one of the people that complain that Umineko doesn't follow the mystery novel standard.

I hate to tell you, but mystery novels are full of improbable shit like this. If it makes you rage this much then why were you even reading Umineko in the first place? Hell, Shkanon is no less likely than the elaborate sequence of closed rooms in the first place, but no one ever calls foul on those.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903409
Lots of strange shits happen in the real world all the time, doesn't mean it's acceptable in a mystery novel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903418
>Considering Jessica is friends with Shannon, and loves Kanon
Jessica is friends with Shannon whenever her mom isn't around and Kanon AVOIDS being around her. The one time we ever see them have a conversation in broad daylight and close proximity is when he's wearing a coat that practically screams disguise in fifty foot font. About the only other thing he needed was a pair of sunglasses.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903418
>Considering Jessica is friends with Shannon, and loves Kanon, you'd figure at least a few times she would propose they all get together and hang out,

You weren't paying any attention to the actual situation of Jessica's relationship with Shannon and Kanon, were you? It's like you just heard the most basic summary of "Jessica and Shannon are friends, Jessica loves Kanon" and are ragin based off that.

No, Jessica really wouldn't ask if they could all just hang out except in a very special circumstances like the family conference. Like Natsuhi would ever allow that shit - Jessica is only allowed to be friends with Shannon to begin with when Natsuhi isn't looking - and Jessica is extremely self-conscious about bothering Kanon from his work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903419
There is a difference between complaining about a shitty riddle and a shitty answer to a riddle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903414
I blame Ryukishi. She's written as a brilliant, cold, calculating person, and she's reduced to a bumbling retard half the story later. He was being totally disingenuous writing the character, Erika's existence was merely to mock and ridicule the people trying to look at things logically, without letting character favoritism bias you. I would be angry, but considering how ridiculous it all ended, a think tank of the worlds most brilliant minds would not have even considered this slap in the face.

[Anonymous No.]

To tell you the truth, the only visual novel I've gone through is Saya no Uta, which I thoroughly loved.

How high does Umineko rank for you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903409
Truth is always stranger than fiction. For truth, you don't have to suspend disbelief - it's real. If you're writing fiction and do something unbelievable, either it should be a presupposed property of the setting, or you should show your work. Otherwise you break the believability of the story.

If someone tried to write Bernard Bouriscot as a fiction story, unless they explained the tricks he used and everything, people would think the story was an unbelievable piece of crap. Hence the problem when a story that is *actually* fiction adopts a solution merely on the basis that `it was technically possible` despite it being unbelievable from a prima facie point of view.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903431
No, Erika was written as a retard who was fixated on her one self-proclaimed brilliant answer to the extent of shunning everything else. She's not really that clever, she's just a self-important bully who forces the answers she wants.

She ignored everything in EP5 because she was focused on making Natsuhi the culprit. She ignored everything in EP6 because she was focused on making Battler logic error. The only thing she ever actually really did as a "brilliant detective" was help Battler solve the epitaph in EP5.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903434
Higher then Saya no Uta which I found to be complete shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903430
Except people are complaining about the situation surrounding Shkanon. All the other unlikely shit in the story? Just dandy. The maid manages to fool a few retards with help from other people? OMGWTF.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903419
But this isn't a mystery. Oh sure, the closed rooms are, even if they're merely retreads of successful, real mysteries, but the story itself really isn't.

At the very least, it's no more a mystery than those laughable CSI episodes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903439

What other unlikely shit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903445
Ten tons of Nazi gold. Hiding Kinzo's death for two fucking years. Building a mansion on the other side of the island and going there regularly without anyone discovering it. Swapping babies in a hospital. Jumping off a skyscraper and living.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903441
Episode 1-4 is a mystery.
And a solvable one at that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903426
The funny thing is that I like Umineko despite answering "no" to the first question - I have no strong feelings about mystery, especially "golden age puzzle mystery". The setting, the mythology, and the conceit of a meta-battle between characters over the "meaning" of the story are much more interesting to me.

[Anonymous No.]

The expiations "They were stupid" really bothers me.

Like you need to be a genius to see the maid and the buttler are the person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903456
Learn to read please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903439
Unlikely shit? The meta world, and all that?

That's perfectly fine in fiction. Not so much in mystery, but the border between reality and meta is made relatively clear. We just have a grudge with how dense the characters are, no one has very much awareness in this story, and it's irritating. Even the derps in mystery novels can have an epiphany, in Umineko, everyone is apparently an ostrich with their collective heads in the sand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903458
They weren't stupid, they just didn't care. And Kanon wasn't a butler. Whenever he's actually working in the sight of other people not in on the deception, he's never even in the house, he's doing work on the grounds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903454
See all that shit other than the last one and maybe the first one seems like it's pretty reasonable to me. Especially the Kinzo thing - behavior such as "locking himself in his study for two years and speaking to no-one" is the kind of thing his family "wouldn't put past" him because he's always been stark raving nuts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903454
>Ten tons of Nazi gold

Absurd but it's not like you've got many waisu to explain it

>Hiding Kinzo's death for two fucking years.

It was very well done, they had the servants help and Kinzo is a lunatic. Beside, the adults practically realized Krauss and Natsuhi were fooling them.

>Building a mansion on the other side of the island and going there regularly without anyone discovering it.

A lot of people knew about it.

>Swapping babies in a hospital.

Happens all the time in fiction

>Jumping off a skyscraper and living.

It's not like Ange ended up on the asphalt cement.
Beside it was fiction, or she had Bernkastel help if you go with Meta.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903435
Except how Shkanon worked was basically explained, but the only thing people can come up with is, "No, it's so stupid, people would have noticed something like that!"

Except you have cases in reality showing that no, in certain circumstances, even someone "in love" with the person in disguise WOULDN'T notice something like that. It's just not how people think in day-to-day life. As far as this anle of "explanation", you have to look at the psychology of the people they were fooling, which honestly, isn't that hard. Natsuhi and Krauss are mentally unstable and an idiot respectively, and don't care on top of that, and Jessica doesn't actually talk to Kanon that much and actively goes into denial about possibilities she finds disturbing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903460
...oh
welp I am a dumb

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903463
>They weren't stupid, they just didn't care.
So the Ushiromiyas are british? That explains it all. How unseemly to fool people like that!

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903471
>Beside it was fiction
So, "it happens in fiction" is great for explaining how people can swap newborn babies in and out of hospitals and jumping off the top of skyscrapers and living to tell the tale, but crossdressing by an androgynous, likely sexless, person isn't allowed? Bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903454
There's already a mythos in reality of some kind of secret Nazi gold hidden somewhere, so while a bit ridiculous, I can begrudgingly accept that.

I can only accept hiding Kinzo's death because he was a reclusive asshole living on an island when he was alive, so it's not terribly hard to conceal. But even then, the other adults were able to guess that he was dead, so I can accept it even more. If they didn't even consider the option like with Shkanon, we would have a problem.

It's an island where only the family and servants live, and eccentric, rich people have indeed invented things like secret passages in real life, so while a geriatric old man playing Solid Snake is ridiculous, whatever, the writer isn't that great to begin with. Helps that Rosa stumbled upon it.

What a shitty hospital, but again, rich people are assholes, so maybe the doctor was payed off. Keeping them quiet is another story.

I've seen this in action movies enough to roll my eyes and move on.


It's bad fiction, sure, but nothing boils my blood like being told this is a mystery, and then given a conclusion where the closed rooms are never answered, and the games are merely stories WITHIN the goddamn story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903498
>then given a conclusion where the closed rooms are never answered
They were answered, what are you talking about? You just don't like the answer.

>and the games are merely stories WITHIN the goddamn story.
I don't see what this has to do with being a mystery or not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903497

Are you really comparing?
It's not like Ange jumps off Skyscrapers all the time

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903498
>It's an island where only the family and servants live
Oh good, this applies to Shkanon too, where the family in question has its own problems and the servants are in on it

>and eccentric, rich people have indeed invented things like secret passages in real life,
I thought what happens in real life doesn't apply to what we arbitrarily decide is acceptable in fiction?

>so while a geriatric old man playing Solid Snake is ridiculous, whatever, the writer isn't that great to begin with.
But man, an androgynous person able to fool a couple of people with help? That really gets the blood boiling, man!

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903439
A lot of the unlikely shit basically gives Yasu a legitimate motive, but then the rage comes when we're told what her actual "heart" is. The big ones off the top of my head, as far as convenient shit goes, are-
Kinzo and the gold/Beatrice 1 (obviously, otherwise no story)

Beatrice II happens to look exactly like 1, or at least enough for Kinzo to do the deed. Rosa stumbles upon Kuwadorian and leads Beatrice II to her death (Fine. That gives the supposed witch Beato something to be paying back the family for.)

Natsuhi just happens to hate herself enough to push Yasu and the servant off the cliff. (Again, builds up a good revenge motive since it secures Yasu growing up as a servant rather than as Lion and creating her gender problem)

And then it turns out Yasu didn't really care about any of that, because what was *really* important to her was that some romantic punk she liked to read mystery novels with could solve her "heart", and this was important enough that she had to do something "drastic" (I'm not taking a stance on fake murders or not) that set the stage for a bloody massacre. Whatever your theory of how it went down, the fact she put this entire "mystery" in motion because she was lovesick, confused, and still completely innocent of wrongdoing is a little insulting to your readers. Ange falling off the skyscraper was pretty stupid, though, I'll agree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903479
The problem is the total lack of suspicion. The fact that no one even began to think of it only made the answer even worse, because readers started to think it was a bright red herring. After all, when we were on the right track, we had characters like Kyrie voicing our suspicions. Even a simple sentence, thinking out loud about something odd about them in one of the first four episodes would have been great. But amidst the three years, and all the chaos of the murders, Shkanon's mask is perfect, unwavering, and without fault. What a superb actress, liar, and manipulator.

[Anonymous No.]

There is a huge gap between faking your gender and pretending to be two different people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903498
>and the games are merely stories WITHIN the goddamn story
You were told that at the end of first episode, for fuck's sake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903514
>Whatever your theory of how it went down, the fact she put this entire "mystery" in motion because she was lovesick, confused, and still completely innocent of wrongdoing is a little insulting to your readers.
Ya kidding? "All of this was a terrible misunderstanding" is perfectly in keeping with how I expect When They Cry to go.

The details of Yasu's particular malfunction may stretch disbelief, but the notion that the instigator didn't actually mean to instigate what goes down is something I was actually hoping for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903512
>I thought what happens in real life doesn't apply to what we arbitrarily decide is acceptable in fiction?
What are you even talking about? Reality is the only thing that gives credence to fiction, the problem arises when you invent diseases or make people act in such a way that is, forgive the made up word, unhumanlike. Most people have no problem with fantastical situations, so long as the characters involved act in a reasonable fashion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903540
I actually didn't now how Higurashi turned out until after I read Ep. 7, but if I had I probably would have stopped reading before then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903516
Who had reason to actively want to know who Yasu really was? It wasn't the adults, unlike their invested interest in knowing if the Head was dead or alive, it was the kids. One of these kids sees them rarely. In the two years Shannon and George are dating, we only hear of them going on one trip together. The rest of the time, they see one another once a year or (possibly) on short, chaste dates. One of these kids sees them regularly. However, "Kanon" avoids her and she avoids him after he cruelly shot her down two years ago. People she's grown up with treat the two as if they were two separate people. Kumasawa regularly talks about spending time together with both Kanon and Shannon, as does Genji, who seems trustworthy.

Both George and Jessica were invested in seeing Shannon and Kanon respectively.

Without a reason to want to see Yasu, it makes sense that she was invisible.

[Anonymous No.]

Kanon doesn't exist
Battler never had Detective authority, Beatrice was trolling the piece by not showing any magic to him.
Jessica love is actually for a pillow with a male Idol called Kanon printed on.
TA-DA!

[Anonymous No.]

My issue with Shkanon is that KANON CREATION DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE

- Having a "real" Kanon doesn't make him more real for Shannon since they can only talk in their head
- How did the thing fucking work? One day Yasu wakes up, wear a buttler uniform, goes to Rokkenjima and "derp, i'm Kanon" and NO ONE found it strange, not even the servants from the orphanage.
Then Genji arrived and "this is Kanon" and Yasu himself, who is aware s/he has imaginary friends didn't find it suspicious.

The only way Kanon would work was if:
- It was DID, but we know now Yasu is very aware
- It happened AFTER Yasu became the head, but we know it's not the case.

So, what the fuck?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903514
>EP V
>There is no revenge
>Still thinking Beato was Kohaku

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903666
I didn't say she was, but revenge would have been a better motive, yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903657
Remember Genji's purpose in the entire thing was to bring Yasu and Kinzo together as father and child. He probably shit himself with joy when Yasu went up to him and said "Hey, I want to be Kinzo's personal servant." Not wanting to bring suspicion down on Shannon's head, he allowed Kanon to be introduced as a totally new person instead of Shannon getting yet another odd favor that might have even woken Natsuhi up from her "servants, whatever" slumber.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903714
> be introduced as a totally new person instead of Shannon getting yet another odd favor that might have even woken Natsuhi up from her "servants, whatever" slumber.

She was already under Kinzo

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903737
No, she wasn't. She acted as a normal maid in every respect and her flashback proves she didn't even have much, if any, contact with Kinzo because of the way she describes him and his reputation among the servants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903743

I may remember bad, but didn't Krauss say she was one of the one-winged servants?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903751
We don't know when she became one. She wasn't one growing up, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903714
>He probably shit himself with joy when Yasu went up to him and said "Hey, I want to be Kinzo's personal servant.
I wish Genji was my father. ;___;

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903789

Why does Genji love Kinzo so much anyway?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903794
Good question. Maybe they're like... brothers or something.
I kid, but didn't Kinzo's flashback in 7 tell us that he knew Nanjo when everything kicked off? Maybe he met Genji (and Kumasawa) then as well and hired them with the idea that they could be part of the omgamazing Ushiromiya family (especially as a trusted servant, for Genji) and get loads of pay or something like that. Seems plausible to me, but then again, it IS Kinzo.

[Anonymous No.]

>people misunderstanding Yasu as always, usually due to unjustified biases and inability to comprehend what a story is trying to tell you

Typical /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903794
>>6903805
Another proof that /jp/ didn't read ep8.
In short, he's his childhood friend. They lived in Taiwan. Genji was a son of rich family, but decided to abandon it. Then there was a revolution and his family died in it. He was saved thanks to Kinzo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903830
Jesus christ, sorry for not being able to read moonrunes. I'm waiting for the translation to come out. U mad?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903714
>Yasu: I'd like to serve under master Kinzo
>Genji: Ok. Let's create another persona so we can make things more hard and screw you in the head more!

[Anonymous No.]

VN? isn't that a fancy word for picturebook? can't you developmentally stunted fucks read anything without pictures?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903960
I think you mean
>Yasu: Well, this is gonna be hard, but it's better than being stuck in that orphanage without being able to see Sister. Hey Genji-san, where are my new clothes? I want to start right away.
>Genji: What the fuck are you talking about? Are you fucked up in the hea- Oh right. Well, follow me, Kanon was your name, was it? I'll show you to your room. And you'll be working directly under the Master. Don't ask. God, this bitch is really fucked up in the head.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6904028
>>Yasu: Well, this is gonna be hard, but it's better than being stuck in that orphanage without being able to see Sister. Hey Genji-san, where are my new clothes? I want to start right away.

But Yasu is aware she is messed up

[Anonymous No.]

>>6903688

Yeah, no.
It would be boring motive that wouldn't even make sense in the context of the story

[Anonymous No.]

>>6904127
Explain how the one we got was so much better, in your eyes. I'm legitimately curious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6904106
Of course I could be wrong, but I think Yasu, the one that is aware of everything, doesn't 'come out' regularly. When Kanon is active, she isn't aware of the multiple personalities.
Isn't it like DID, but with a personality that does know?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6904177
...Or some shit like that. Nah, honestly, disregard my post, I don't know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6904177

If she's aware then it's not DID

>>6904157

"I killed everyone for revenge" is a very bland and unoriginal answer.

We got a roulette of fate, that is at least original and made sense in the context of the story. Or are you one of the "Yasu could have trow a coin?" fags

[Anonymous No.]

>>6904197
No, but I'm saying *why* she chose to use that roulette isn't any more interesting than planning revenge a la Kohaku.

[Anonymous No.]

You are all talking like you were ever shown Kanon. As I grasp it, it was just Yasu flashbacks and fictional stories that were presented with him in it.

Can we say that we ever got to see what happened for real on the island? Or that flashbacks including Kanon weren't just Yasu's, which she is allowed to bend any way she wants?

I'm positive Kanon doesn't exist at all, but if she ever needed a culprint in a mystery story, it would be herself in disguise. A perfect disguise of course, so nobody would figure it out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6904311
>I'm positive Kanon doesn't exist at all, but if she ever needed a culprint in a mystery story, it would be herself in disguise. A perfect disguise of course, so nobody would figure it out.

See>>6902889

[ryukishi-sama No.]

>>6904311
>everything is just fiction have fun figuring out my mystery tee-hee ;)

[Anonymous No.]

>>6904333
>Several characters mention Kanon having worked there for 3 years
>There are scenes outside the catbox where many characters interact with him

There are scenes with Beatrice + Kanon + Shannon outside the catbox. If that can be shown, then anything can be shown as long as you'd like to interpret it that way. That means that people could have said Kanon had been around for 3 years, or it could just be what Yasu wish they had said, since she created him 3 years ago.

>contradicts several clues

As I see it, too much contradict itself in Umineko. It is however fun to look for those things that actually fit with the theory.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>6903409
That assumes he was telling the truth. For all we know he was gay and/or a traitor and stuck to his story because he though people wouldn't believe he was making up something this stupid.