http://katawashoujo.blogspot.com/2011/01/reach-for-stars.html Katawa Shoujo's "Head of Writing" thinks all VNs are shit. Discuss.

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Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 18:37:05 No.6830958 [Reply] [Original]

http://katawashoujo.blogspot.com/2011/01/reach-for-stars.html
Katawa Shoujo's "Head of Writing" thinks all VNs are shit.
Discuss.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 18:41:05 No.6830995 File: 21 KB, 342x300, he he he.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Katawa Shoujo's "Head of Writing" >thinks

>>	Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:06:05 No.6831474 >it's pretty safe to say that about half to two thirds of 4LS don't like KS much at all. This is kind of sad. KSDevs hate KS. ;_;

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:08:05 No.6831486

>>6830958
>all
I'm not reading though that wall of text, but I assume he means the nukige, which is 80+% of VNs today, and I would agree with him there.

If he is saying shit like little busters, muv-luv, clannad, symphonic rain is shit then he can go fuck himself.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:10:05 No.6831491 >Only Ryan / Showa would ass themselves to write an entry on VNs and all of the "metafags" and "betafags" who play them. This whole thread in one post.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:10:05 No.6831494 >>6831486 >clannad Huh? You listed nukige

>>	HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:12:05 No.6831500 >"betafags" Has someone been making up words again?

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:14:05 No.6831504 >Katawa Shoujo's "Head of Writing" thinks all VNs are shit. So does /jp/. Your point?

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:14:05 No.6831506 He's right. Most VNs ARE shit.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:15:05 No.6831514

>>6831486
He means all of them.
He seems to have some retarded preconception of what a VN is supposed to be that has got nothing to do with reality, and quite frankly it's hard to me to understand what someone who misses the point of VNs so clearly is doing trying to write one.
Does anybody who follows KS drama more than me have an idea whether he can read Japanese?

>>	Prof. Anonymous !JVVFLaNdrE Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:17:05 No.6831519 >>6831500 Apparently some yRan/Showa failure of a troll.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:22:05 No.6831532

>>6831486
No, he means visual novels in general.

The basic ideas are:
1. They rely too much on anime tropes and cliches.
2. Too wordy, not using the visual/audio aspect enough (which I disagree with, I prefer the fact that it's written more like a novel).
3. The interactivity doesn't do enough to send the story into drastically different directions.
4. Not enough use of the visuals. This seems like a repeat of #2 though.

>>	HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:22:05 No.6831534 >>6831519 I see. As Babylon Jones demonstrated (back in the distant past before the oceans drank Atlantis) an insult is meaningless if the target is unable to understand it.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:22:05 No.6831537 >knocking on Dinosaur Comics Get out, KSdevs.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:23:05 No.6831538

>>6831514
He might as well say all games are shit since none of them reach the full potential of each of their individual genres.

I mean, I agree that VNs haven't really evolved much, but they're basically digital books with images to assist.

If he wants fully featured interaction so much he can go out and do stuff in the real world where every decision has a consequence and can't be fixed by a reload.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:23:05 No.6831543 I agree with what he's talking about. Most vn's are stereotypical in the way that it's all about murder/little girls & transvestites and harem type crap.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:25:05 No.6831549 >>6831543 >Then you sir, are a faggot to agree with yRan and Showa

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:26:05 No.6831552 It'd be great if he delivered a satisfying, original, thoughtful story in place of VN cliches

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:28:05 No.6831559

Yeah, I couldn't agree more with most of his points.

>1. Get rid of the dependence on genre conventions
This is such a problem with VNs and anime in general that I see it lampshaded constantly. "You're not some eroge protagonist!" "A plot twist this convient only happens in a VN" etc. Sometimes that's okay, but I'd really prefer that they avoid it unless they're being really clever. Case in point: G-Senjou no Maou. No, not the jokes, they were fine, it was the fact that they were at a high school for no reason. It was just sort of an odd choice considering everything else about the plot and the age requirements of the characters. I would have been interested if they had tried something else. Like they couldn't even do a college setting?

>2. Stop with the word diarrhea
This is so true. Though I'd say from the demo KS is pretty guilty when it comes to this.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:29:05 No.6831566 >>6830958 That's not what he said. He said that they don't meet the potential of the medium

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:31:05 No.6831574 >Basically, various people seem to be unhappy with the state of western-developed Visual Novels. >western-developed Visual Novels. >western

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:33:05 No.6831582 >>6831559 >Like they couldn't even do a college setting? Because then, Eiichi wouldn't have been moe~ but kind of creepy.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:37:05 No.6831594 VNs are shit. But who cares, we're here for Touhou.

Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:38:05 No.6831597

>>6831559
But that's exactly what he says. KS is guilty of everything and it's more of an experimental thing, they are all amateurs trying to do make something they once loved. Like he said, most of the KS dev team don't have a very high opinion of KS, and the highlight is more of the experience of making it and its community.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:38:05 No.6831600

>>6831559
Genre conventions are everywhere in any medium though.

Books, movies, games, all of them.
For every unique and interesting idea, there will be several others that recycle tropes and cliches.

Looking at broad arches is so flawed anyway.
It's how a particular story is told that makes it interesting, not the general context.

It's not like non-stereotyped VNs don't exist.
Even just listing ones available in English there's Ever17, Utawarerumono, and Eien no Aselia off the top of my head that don't do the usual school life thing.
Muv-Luv too if you don't count the initial setup which is kind of needed for contrast.

>Comics have grown up a bit already and broadened their horizons, arguably even video games have.
I CAN'T WAIT FOR BATMAN TO BEAT JOKER AGAIN ONLY FOR HIM TO ESCAPE ONCE MORE!

HOW ABOUT SHOOTAN SOME ALIENS IN POWER ARMOR?

I'm sorry, but if you analyze things with the goal of finding flaws you're obviously only going to find flaws.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:39:05 No.6831602 >>6831594 Touhou is even worse. Shitty little magic fairys are fucking stupid.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:40:05 No.6831607 KS is the longest, most painful joke ever.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:40:05 No.6831611 File: 91 KB, 977x2927, 1294614888364.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6831600 >Comics have grown up a bit already and broadened their horizons

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:44:05 No.6831618

>>6831611

>Super saiyan 2 mary sue godmode bullshit

What the fuck, Super Saiyan 2 wasn't even that good.
It allowed Gohan to beat Super Perfect Cell, but if Goku wasn't such a fuckhead he himself could've beat Perfect Cell without SSJ2 and Super Perfect Cell never would have existed.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:45:05 No.6831623 >>6831618 >Goku wasn't such a fuckhead But Goku who isn't a fuckhead isn't Goku at all.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:46:05 No.6831628 >>6831607 I liked the demo, but I guess it will end like this. It's been like 5 years, hasn't it?

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:47:05 No.6831630

>>6831597
I find it really hard to disagree with his points, and whether or not KS delivers on them has nothing to do with whether he's right or not. VNs are mostly cliched as fuck, even the good ones are way too wordy.

The third point is very subjective though; there's no reason VNs have to or should encourage gameplay like choices. I personally find that they are a deterrent to a coherent narrative. It's certainly something worth pursuing, but it's not a fundamental necessity.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:49:05 No.6831634 Wonder why there aren't any shounen type VN's.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:50:05 No.6831637 File: 6 KB, 155x156, 1273030213516.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >With the current trends, even the best visual novel will be the rough equivalent of Dinosaur Comics. It's funnily written at best, but very pointless as a comic.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:52:05 No.6831644

Read expecting to rage. He doesn't actually discuss anything so it was kind of hard. It's not such a terrible post. You can tell his thoughts were in the right place.

As far as content choices and expanding the medium, I agree pretty strongly. Arguments like why F/SN even bothered having porn in it or why sex romps still make up the majority of the market seem pretty relevant to developing VN's as a respectable medium. Movies can depict sex, novels can depict sex so why would a typical English speaker refer for Tsukihime as a porn game?

That being said, his critique of the word count of VN's and the lack of visual artistry is more than lacking. Fully animated visual novels don't make sense. We already have that, it's called subtitled anime. Just because 'visual' comes before 'novel' does not mean it has to be the most dominant method of story telling. "Just read a novella with a soundtrack" as if the point of music in visual novels wasn't to mix certain music with certain scenes.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:52:05 No.6831649

Katawa Shoujo: Normalfags' first VN. Popular because of shock value and gullible idiots. LOLOLO LOOK AT DIS VN BRO U CAN FUCK A BITCH WITH NO ARMS. DUDE WE HAVE GOT TO READ THIS.

Those are the people hyping up Katawa Shoujo. Them and underage weeaboos who wanna appear weird and quirky so they can go on pretending to be hikikomori and calling themselves "Otaku".

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:53:05 No.6831653 >>6831634 There are. Your most popular example is FSN. Yes, it is a fucking shounen, no matter how much you want to wrap it with pretentia.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:54:05 No.6831658

>>6831600
He's not talking about superhero comics, that's obvious. He's talking about indie comics and shit. Since Maus came out in the 70s comics have been taken more seriously. This was because the comics code authority raped them in fifties. I won't go into it too much but he's making the point that a medium that had NO redeeming elements for several decades finally had a renaissance and eventually mainstream acceptance as an art form.

Japan never had this problem.

I agree with your other points though.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:58:05 No.6831682 >>6831653 My mistake. Let me rephrase that. Why aren't there any GOOD shonen vn's? FSN is shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 20:58:05 No.6831684 >>6831653 FSN has fighting, so I guess if you define shounen as "something with fighting in it" then FSN is a shounen.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:03:05 No.6831709

>>6831637
Hah, this reminds me of more non-cliched examples.
Just from the DS we have 999 and looking broader we also have Infinite Space, the Ace Attorney series, and you can probably include Hotel Dusk and it's sequel as well.

Of course, where do you draw the line between a VN with gameplay and a game with heavy story emphasis?

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:04:05 No.6831712 >>6831682 No such thing as good shounen. >>6831684 Consider the plot armor, deus ex machina and assorted shounen bullshit you see in FSN, then come back and say that to me with a straight face.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:06:05 No.6831721

He's wrong about other things as well, but missing the entire point of big chunk of VNs is what really annoys me - they're wordy so that you can develop emotional relationship with the characters. You're not just reading about the actions and emotions of the protagonist like virtually any other medium, you are becoming the protagonist. The potential to emotionally affect the reader in completely different way that pretty much entirety of other forms of storytelling is the most unique strength of VNs.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with choices, by the way.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:06:05 No.6831724 >>6831709 What about Jake Hunter?

>>	Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:07:05 No.6831727 >>6831712 Shonen is defined as "target audience:young boys" FSN is 18+ Forget your definitions, by economic marketing standards eroge are not shonen.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:08:05 No.6831735 >>6831727 Realta Nua is not 18+.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:09:05 No.6831741 >>6831727 They can still be shounen like. But yes, there aren't many shounen VNs. And no, fights and or action included doesn't automatically make it shounen.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:11:05 No.6831751 >>6831727 ... and you can also see FSN with a teen rating on its console encarnations. It is a goddamn shounen. Face it. It is not a blight, not necessarily.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:12:05 No.6831759 Western fans sure love to try and pollute the things I love.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:15:05 No.6831777

I think a good shonen vn would be..

-Something that has an overall theme that it's trying to portray to it's readers, such as "community" or "love"

-The MC would start off weak, we'd gather insight on his thoughts then watch him develop and change his thinking as he progresses and makes more friends

-The MC will pick up other characters that accompany him on whatever journey he may be on and it goes into each of their backgrounds and thoughts also

-Fight scenes would be sort of be like umineko's Screen flashes fade effects, rich imagery etc.

-A world that is in a current state of despair or ruin (somethings got to be fixed) and the main characters are trying to influence this

-Total world immersion. This is very important

Seriously I would read something like this.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:17:05 No.6831791 >>6831777 They already made it. It's called F/SN

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:17:05 No.6831794 >>6831759 Exactly what I was thinking. I don't even give a shit about this guy, but for some reason this still makes me sad. Fucking cripple porn writer should just shut up.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:18:05 No.6831797 >>6831759 You saying this means that you do not understand what you love. The shit you see here? You can see the same faggotry in glorious nippon as well. Except for cosplayers. The japanese are actually better at it most of the time.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:18:05 No.6831800 File: 61 KB, 1094x264, FSN.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6831777 Sometimes i love suigin.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:20:05 No.6831813 >>6831800 This is exactly what I meant earlier when I said you can't just look at the overall outline of a story. You break down anything enough and it'll start sounding like something else.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:20:05 No.6831819

>>6831791

Fate stay night is in a single town, it doesn't have world immersion. By world immersion I mean something like pokemon, eg pokeballs, pokecenters. Everything revolves around the theme.

Fate stay night has too many female characters, and they look extremely generic to boot.

The main character doesn't really progress at all. He falls in love instead and it's a big hindirance on the story.

It's hard to explain but FSN is not a shonen.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:21:05 No.6831825 >>6831800 >strongest magical being in this war >Shinku >implying Suigintou isn't by far the strongest Maiden, and Kirakishou isn't extremely powerful too >Also Barasuishou except she's not canon

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:22:05 No.6831836

>>6831819
>The main character doesn't really progress at all. He falls in love instead
Wow you didn't understand it at all. He progressed by abandoining his ideals because they were borrowed and made no sense for the person he loved. He also got stronger along the way.

And F/SN is all about the world immersion, doesn't matter if it's one town.

Now you're telling me that it has to have more than a few female characters? Why? 3 that follow him around is more than enough

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:22:05 No.6831838 Things like F/SN are aimed at young men who have the mentality of boys, not actual kids.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:23:05 No.6831847 >>6831825 >>strongest magical being in this war >>Saber >>implying Gilgamesh isn't by far the strongest Heroic Spirit, and Cuchulainn isn't extremely powerful too >>Also Fake Assassin except he's not canon

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:23:13 No.6831840 >>6831825 >>strongest magical being in this war >>Saber >>implying Gilgamesh isn't by far the strongest Maiden, and Cuchulainn isn't extremely powerful too >Also Fake Assassin except he's not canon

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:24:05 No.6831853 I actually agree with KS devs. However, their answer to what they think the problems with VNs, KS, is no different than most of the VNs out today.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:25:05 No.6831862 >>6831836 Sorry but you don't really understand what I'm trying to say.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:26:05 No.6831872 >>6831862 Maybe not. It's ok, I'm not very smart.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:29:05 No.6831889 That post reads like a giant troll against the gemot faggots that spurred the discussion to begin with.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:29:05 No.6831893

>>6831712
>Dead orphans as a power source is shounen
>rape and child abuse is shounen
>long cooking scenes are shounen
>scenes of people doing things other than fight are shounen

Dude, hate it all you want, you're only calling FSN shounen because it has fighting in it and it's japanese. Those cliches you mentioned are by no means limited to the shounen demographic at all, and FSN, even without ero, does a ton of thing you couldn't get away with in any shounen mag, let alone Jump.

Jesus christ has /a/ screwed up the definition of shounen.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:29:05 No.6831894

I don't seriously care about KS Dev opinions anymore.
One person on channel played Cross Channel and hated it. Now others refuse to play it too.
One person on channel played Inganock and didn't like it. Now others refuse to play it too.

Shit like this.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:31:05 No.6831912

not that this guy has any right to stand on a soapbox and start preaching about quality VNs, but he does bring up ONE good point: even the best visual novels out there don't live up to the potential of the medium.

but VNs are a very immature medium. everything takes time to grow; just think about early audio recordings, movies, games, etc.

what KSDEV is describing sounds like the commercialization of visual novels. something that spans genres and appeals to the masses. maybe it's just me but i don't really think that's the right direction.

some of what makes visual novels so great is the small doujin-esque style of community development. people doing it because the love to, not because they want money. you can make novels with niche appeal because you don't have to sell a million copies. kinda like, you know, books?

it's inevitable that VNs will eventually go mainstream; it's too powerful a medium for it not to. but to KSDEV, let's try and keep it underground and keep it real, at least a little while longer.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:32:05 No.6831920 >>6831893 >>Dead orphans But they're not dead, just mostly.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:34:05 No.6831935 >>6831920 It's actually even worse that way, but point taken.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:36:05 No.6831950 >>6831912 >it's inevitable that VNs will eventually go mainstream; it's too powerful a medium for it not to. but to KSDEV, let's try and keep it underground and keep it real, at least a little while longer. I hope this is a troll

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:38:05 No.6831971 >>6831893 It's funny how wrong both of you are.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:40:05 No.6831983

>>6831912
While I understand your point, I think he's talking more about VNs being appreciated as an art form than he is about them become mainstream. That's a huge difference. While I personally don't feel that acceptance by arbitrary cultural gatekeepers is something that matters, acceptance is a consequence of advancement. Look at how much more serious writing is being done about video games, for example, not to mention video games themselves that are considerably more sophisticated. Yet, mainstream financial and artistic recognition certainly hasn't helped or hindered the development of video games.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:41:05 No.6831988

>>6831912
The full potential of the medium would require a decent budget to unlock though. I admit I don't really have a grasp on the scope of VN companies in Japan, but for doujin productions it's substantially easier to favour the writing at the expense of flashy/polished visual effects.

But I disagree that VNs will eventually go mainstream. There's no incentive to create VNs that might appeal to the mainstream as opposed to VNs that appeal to the established audience.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:41:05 No.6831990 >>6831971 It's both shounen and not shounen? Are you a fucking wizard?

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:41:05 No.6831996 why are the ksdevs so pretentious? all they do on their blog is post walls of texts on how they view shit. NO ONE GIVES A FUCK! get back to making your game.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:44:05 No.6832007 >>6831996 >No one gives a fuck And yet, you reply.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:45:05 No.6832011 >>6831996 I think they've deluded themselves into think they're producing something of literary merit. I just want to fap to some cute cripple girls goddammit.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:46:05 No.6832019 >>6831990 >Are you a fucking wizard? Nope, still 8 years to go. One of you is wrong calling F/SN shounen, but the other accusing him of being influenced by /a/ is the one bringing up the western interpretation of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:48:05 No.6832033 >>6831988 you make a good point but today with kindle/clones, modern phones, tablet/notebook computers and portable game devices that could all easily run VNs i think a mainstream market will emerge.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:51:05 No.6832048

>it's inevitable that VNs will eventually go mainstream; it's too powerful a medium for it not to. but to KSDEV, let's try and keep it underground and keep it real, at least a little while longer.
i wouldn't be that sure, majority of the people don't want to read, and the less text there is, the better for them.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:55:05 No.6832073
File: 106 KB, 800x601, misuzu raikiri.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6831777

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Total world immersion", but this is pretty much 11 eyes to a T. It executes the parts it needs to well (the fight scenes) with plenty of good adrenaline moments. I recommend it.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 21:57:05 No.6832089 >>6832048 yeah, i guess we shouldn't underestimate laziness. if you've got sound and pictures why read text?

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:01:05 No.6832122 File: 191 KB, 355x334, trixie5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6831611 >taking the "baked bads" quote out of context fuck YOU and whoever added MLP:FiM to that troll pic

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:04:05 No.6832147 >ctrl+f "misha route" >chrome didn't find anything still not giving a shit

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:06:05 No.6832166 >>6832147 Who cares about Misha.... I want my Iwanako back, KS devs stole her from me after the prologue ;_;

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:08:05 No.6832181 >>6832166 Iwanako is Misha. Now fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:09:05 No.6832194 >>6832147 aww crap. i was hoping to bang the living shit out of that loudmouthed annoying bitch!

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:09:05 No.6832198 >>6832181 LIES! I won't accept a fake Iwanako like that! ;_;

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:10:05 No.6832207 File: 127 KB, 492x600, autism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6832194 As a living being infected with the assburgers, I find your statement very hurtful.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:23:05 No.6832328

>>6832033
That's true, new technology seems like a great fit for the medium. We still need an OELVN scene that isn't completely terrible first though. Do you mean mainstream among anime fans or in the general population? Even if KS is successful, I can't see anyone breaking away from the anime tropes that scare off normal people any time soon.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:24:05 No.6832340 File: 84 KB, 1023x716, come at me bro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6830958 But VNs were all shit until Katawa Shoujo arrived. What's the problem?

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:28:05 No.6832367 >>6832122 i thought that was a giant blue horse cock

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:38:05 No.6832418 oh man. KSdevs taking advantage of the total chaos /jp/ has been in these past few days. are you really gonna bite /jp/?

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:41:05 No.6832451 File: 64 KB, 550x550, america_reading_is_for_faggots.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >VNs will eventually go mainstream I don't think so, Tim. Replace "America" in the pic with your country of choice and it will still hold true.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:45:05 No.6832480 number of games released: 0 keep talking shit.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:47:05 No.6832492

>>6832328

of course it wouldn't be an overnight success, but if the "indie" VN market became as potentially profitable as the indie film market you'd start to see more mainstream attempts, most likely with heavy financial backing.

imagine something labeled "a visual novel by stephen king." you know there would be a lot of takers. that's the kind of thing that would catapult the medium into the mainstrseam.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:51:05 No.6832517 >>6832492 sorry, that was stupid, there's no way a VN market would become anywhere as profitable as a movie market. but traditional novels do sell a lot of volume and i think VNs could creep in on that market.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:52:05 No.6832523 >>6832492 I don't think anyone would really want to read a VN by Stephen King.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:53:05 No.6832528 How many of you have paid for more than 3 VNs? Seriously?

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:54:05 No.6832533 >>6832528 I have.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:56:05 No.6832546 >>6832492 Never going to happen with VNs if it didn't with anime. Anime had its chance last decade and now it's back to kids market and limited mainstream appeal.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 22:59:05 No.6832560 >>6832523 you wouldn't. i wouldn't. but normals are a different breed. i mean the guy publishes like a dozen books a year and they just eat the shit up.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 23:01:05 No.6832569

>>6832517
That would require:
- An actual OELVN scene to develop
- Works of decent quality to be produced
- These works to move away from the "anime" conventions of the genre
- People taking an interest in numbers large enough to convince professionals that the medium could be commercially viable

I don't disagree that a VN by a big Western name would do a lot to promote the medium, but I just don't see that ever happening.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 23:03:05 No.6832581 How could the West produce VNs when they're incapable of creating cute 2D girls?

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 23:05:05 No.6832594

>>6832569

thank you for summarizing what i was taking a long time to formulate. yes, it would have to break from all that we love about the novels to become mainstream but it just seems logical it will happen.

or maybe it will just become the romance novel of gen y.

BRING SAJUUK TO BEAR BRING SAJUUK TO BEAR Tue, Jan 18, 2011 23:13:05 No.6832626
File: 59 KB, 700x400, BRING SAJUUK TO BEAR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>gives Homeworld 2 as an example

BRING SAJUUK TO BEAR

But really, I love the Homeworld cutscenes and visual novels with something similar would be great.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 23:28:05 No.6832703

>>6832626

A Homeworld visual novel? You could be a captain in the Hiigaran military shortly after the reclamation of the homeworld. Fighting raiders, political maneuvering, and a final battle against a resurgent Taiidan threat with you in position of Grand Admiral.

Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 23:34:05 No.6832730

I'm 99% sure that OP is a KS DEV shill who's come here to do his weekly trollings, but I'll humor this time.

While I don't disagree with the main points, it's just a bunch of sweeping generalizations about the problems with no real proposed solutions, and indeed quite hypocritical as well (as pointed out in the article itself). At least when Braid's Jonathan Blow called out platforming conventions, he had a body of work that represented his ideals to a point. This just feels like aimless griping passed off as intellectual critique.

Say little, do much.

>>	Anonymous Tue, Jan 18, 2011 23:58:05 No.6832803 Some people need to just accept that they're not in the target audience and move on.

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