/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Saw this on /lit/, what do you think?

[Anonymous No.]

I couldn't care less.

[Anonymous No.]

hahahaha, oh man

[Anonymous No.]

If by 'traditional storytelling' you mean 'word of mouth', then it's placed in the wrong tier.

[Anonymous No.]

Depends on what the exact nature of the list is. If it's about how much fun they are I'd say it's wrong, but opinions and whatnot.

[Anonymous No.]

I agree with this mostly.

Video games are shit.

[Anonymous No.]

Does this chart assume the same story is being told through each medium?

[Anonymous No.]

VNs are video games.

[Anonymous No.]

For: overall quality
Swap VNs and books and it's correct.
For: immersion
Put story-based video games at mid-tier and it's correct

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802911

It can't be correct because OPINIONS

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802918

ewww no you like them pretentious books dont you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802918

Mostly well-written stuff should be high tier, and you forgot to consider things which are so bad they're good.

[Yｏur ｆavorite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ Ｂangkok No.]

GOD TIER :
Anime, Video games

deal /w it

you dont have pictures or sound in books
you cant have physically impossible shit in drama

you, however, can have both pictures, sound, and physically impossible shit in anime AND video games
video games even has interaction between it and the player

that said, only applies if the media is perfect

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802911
I disagree. VNs combine books with MOE. Books are awesome but cute things are cute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802942

Too bad the pretty pictures much more often than not allow the creators to become extremely lazy and write crap.

[Anonymous No.]

I wouldn't compare visual novels to books, they're actually quite different; "visual novel" is a bit of a misnomer imo.

If it's talking about how well written these subjects are on average.. mmm, I'd put traditional stories above anime (most anime are terribly written) and books above VNs.. although, there are many many shitty books that get undeserved attention.

Story comes second, third or worse in priority for videogames like 99% of the time though, I'd put them below shit tier.. they are fucking terrible storytelling mediums for the most part unless you have like 9 hours of cutscenes, like in MGS4. Videogames are much much more about entertainment than thoughtful commentary or philosophy, I laugh at people trying to defend them as anything otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

I think we can all agree that as a medium, VNs probably possess the highest potential.

[Anonymous No.]

>>>/v/83859824

[Yｏur ｆavorite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ Ｂangkok No.]

>>6802958
true to a point

[Anonymous No.]

GOD TIER:
nukige, moege

MID TIER:
nakige

SHIT TIER:
kusoge

[Yｏur ｆavorite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ Ｂangkok No.]

>>6802966
It's video games.

1. animated
2. sound
3. interactive
4. immersion
5. CGs

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802973
>He thinks something that lacks prose can have high potential
laughingtouhou.jpg

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802970
>SHIT TIER:
>kusoge
Okay.

[Anonymous No.]

Visual novels, video games and anime all go on shit tier.

Just because I like them it doesn't mean they are not worthless self-indulging garbage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802977
Heavy Rain called.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802879

Visual Novels have the potential to be better than books yes.

It's still just fucking potential at this point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802988
>implying it wouldn't have been infinitely better as prose written by a competent writer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6802977
Video games can easily have prose.

[Anonymous No.]

Visual novels aren't better than books. Books aren't better than visual novels. No medium is better than all other media. They all have a story to tell. What matters is that you enjoy the story.

If you don't enjoy it, it doesn't mean it's bad, either. It just means it wasn't suited to your tastes, man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803007
The dude didn't actually say that phrase during the scene in that image.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803033

No. No, he didn't.

[Yｏur ｆavorite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ Ｂangkok No.]

but VNs are vidya

[Anonymous No.]

What's the difference between a VN and a comic book, other than a VN is a purely digital medium?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803100
Sound.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803007

I'd say this is true only to a certain extent. Some people are just plain bad at writing/telling stories, and should have never bothered to write one. See: The Room.

[Anonymous No.]

Lit has a good opinion of VN's? I'm ok with this

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803100
They have nothing similar other than both having text and images.

VNs have sound and variables.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803148

You've got me there.

I could try to worm myself out of this problem I've stumbled onto and say that maybe there are writers whose stories will only reach a handful of people but that's like resorting to the "small bombs" theory.

[Anonymous No.]

People, the target audience's limitations need to be heavily taken into consideration with these kinds of sweeping judgments... For example just because Winnie the Pooh isn't really all that deep or full of commentary, doesn't mean it's bad, it was simply not designed to hit that bar. In a similar vein most video games were never designed to tell a thought provoking or deep story, and their target audience tends to be teens to young adults)... Anime tend to be written in a similar aspect even when adapted from a more thoughtful manga... because things need to be toned down for public broadcast, anime usually caps out at teen/young adult level. [anime is less about entertainment and more about story though, when compared to video games]

Manga and OVAs, since they -don't- need to be broadcast to Joe Public, can reach a much higher plateau than anime can though, pretty much on the same level as books if the writer/director has a real artistic sense to accentuate good writing. For example Legend of the Galactic Heroes was really really fucking good, one of the best anime I've ever seen, but actually no, it wasn't an anime technically, it was an OVA. Most people seem to lose this distinction, or not realize its significance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803181

(other part, original post was too long)

Lastly VNs, since they often are aimed at adults/young adults, tend to have better writing than anime, but can still be outdone by books and manga etc due to target audience being more limited.

VNs do possess a higher potential though, but it simply haven't been explored too much yet. I mean theoretically, their plateau is something like this.. imagine your favorite book, movie, anything... moved you to tears, changed your life etc, imagine that, only you felt like you were there... you were not just engrossed in watching the story, you were literally part of it and influenced it.

I mean, regular video games are like this too in theory, but, typical video games focus much more on entertainment and are also toned down from their plateau due to target audience (notice that kids play "mature" 17+ games all the time and you never see Adult Only rated ones). VNs in comparison though are like if someone decided to say "fuck it" to all conventional wisdom of what you're supposed to do when making a video game.

[Anonymous No.]

Depends on how games were made.
Certain games are a master piece as a game itself. The plot would never work out in anime/book/vn form. They even try every once in a while, and it almost always fails.

[Anonymous No.]

for potential
video games can be number 1
fully interactive VR with huge interactive fantasy world and story and stuff
the only thing that compares is real life but that has limits and no repeats

but realistically now
videogames are worst since they substitute story and whatnot for the making of the game.

for actual story telling they are all equal. you can just copy/paste from one to another

[Anonymous No.]

Vidya and VN's are simply far too young to realize their full potential yet. There's a chance that they never will too.

See ya in 200 years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803181
>For example Legend of the Galactic Heroes was really really fucking good, one of the best anime I've ever seen,
Cool...
>but actually no, it wasn't an anime technically, it was an OVA.
What the fuck am I reading?

[Anonymous No.]

Traditional storytelling is pretty awesome. It's like the literature equivalent of jazz.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803280

People have tried with video games in the past, but it just comes down to the fact that teens, kids and young adults (as in college kids that like to "chill" and smoke weed and try to get laid, aka not actually mature adults yet) more often than not couldn't appreciate a good story, even if it bared its tits and rubbed them in their faces.

Gamers usually care more about action, the game's mechanics being properly balanced, and trying to prove that they're the best because RAGING TEEN HORMONES (and just TESTOSTERONE as virile young adults) encourage multiplayer aspects to be more focused on. So, story writers for games tend to just kind of sit back even if they could do better, and go "eh this is good enough, it's not like anyone could give me a pulitzer prize for this". The type of gameplay also can limit what kind of story can be told [and/or the devs are too lazy or pushed for time to make a major alteration to a game's engine just to fit in some extraneous storytelling bit], and some games are simply expected to have certain kinds of stories or keep to a certain pattern, and so they don't deviate from them. Unfortunately, this last bit dooms games with sequels or staying in a general setup to staleness (see: Final Fantasy) even when sequels could in theory open up more possibilities.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803299

People like you are precisely the reason I pointed this out. As you may know, OVA = original video animation, eg, it does not have to conform to broadcasting standards from the get go aka you can put in whatever the fuck you want without some channel overseer going "we can't/shouldn't show that on TV". For example look at the differences between the Berserk manga and its anime.. anime's action is gimped as hell, if that was an OVA it would have been the full ride. Case in point of the difference potential - compare the Hellsing OVAs to the anime.. accuracy, art direction etc.

LotGH was broadcast nevertheless as are many OVAs, but the difference in levels of control of direction still stands.

However I'd say this applies more to 80s/90s OVAs though, nowadays OVAs tend to be basically extra episodes of an anime done in the same format or are done because they that allows you to fit more impressive animation for the same budget (at the cost of cutting the show's time). For series like Gundam, where cooler-looking mecha sell the model kits better, it's a prerogative to do this. However not all series are reliant on merchandising other than DVD sales, so whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803375
That doesn't mean it's not anime.
It just means OVAs CAN have different content and have more effort put into them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803181
I hate how people think that something has to be deep and thought-provoking to be objectively good, like you have to throw in a bunch of unnecessary that doesn't make sense, or it's just mindless crap that only a tasteless philistine would be able to enjoy. For example, telling a story in such a way that it draws the viewer/reader in, makes them feel the atmosphere as if they were in the story themselves, and makes them long to see how the story will progress, takes much more skill than adding some gimmicky modernist storytelling device to make it look deep.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803388

If you're going to be a stickler over definition semantics fine, you win, I meant to say LotGH was not a TV anime.

People used to make a much bigger distinction between an OVA and TV anime btw, maybe you are too young to have gone through that time and so you just see these things differently than I do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803420
OVAs were a big thing in the 80s, they stopped being a huge portion of the industry in the mid 90s, and no I wasn't watching anime in the 80s.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803343
I'd argue much of that is the symptom of trying to fit the literary values of one medium into another. Games are by nature emergent media; an assembly of simple rules that interact to form a symphony of action. With their dynamic and responsive algorithms which attempt to simulate some world, they are better suited for storyMAKING rather than storyTELLING. That is to say, the best stories in games are ones that are created by the player's interaction with a world, rather than a player's progress through a story which has had a world built around it. Consider Dwarf Fortress being compared to a VN. While the VN may have thousands of flags for tens of character routes, a new playthrough will expose you to the same characters and scenarios - more like a "choose your own story" than a game. DF on the other hand, will randomly generate events of varying memorability, ranging from a bland economic scenario to a new Boatmurdered. Many developers are beginning to recognize and focus on this. Irrational (Bioshock) and Bestheda (Elder Scrolls, Fallout 3) in a podcast define these events as "water cooler moments"; unique or unmarked events that create stories to be swapped between players. Having the world of a game become a seed for stories about players' actions is a strength exclusive to video games, and the strongest form of story for that media.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803320
It really depends on the person telling the story, though. Usually stories like these are very short. The ones that aren't tend to have a lot of important details lost to the teller's memory. If I write a book today that story will be exactly the same 200 years later (assuming English survives the next 200 years) if I pass that same story on by word of mouth it can change drastically 200 years from now. Kinda like the gospels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803420
>I meant to say LotGH was not a TV anime.
You should write so in the first place, then.

Anyway, what is the OP:s tier list ranking? How fun they are? How high quality their story is or can be? How hip n cool they are?

[Anonymous No.]

God Tier
Eroge, porn animu, /elit/

Low Tier
Everything not porn

Shit Tier
Everything DEEP

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803181
>Most people seem to lose this distinction, or not realize its significance.
Its not so significant in this case, I believe, logh was even broadcasted on TV later on. If logh had a lot of violence (removing the "gore"-ish scenes from it would make little difference) or sex or dealt with tabus or something like that, it might be significant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6803518

That's the whole troll magic part of it. If that distinction was made from the start, it would lose all of its steam, because then people then wouldn't misinterpret it and argue with each other. Or at least, I think that was the idea. That and/or OP is testing to see how different boards react to this, since that also seems to have happened.