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6763019 No.6763019 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Nasuverse power levels are bullshit. I mean, Archer is one of the weakest Servants? Don't give me that crap. The guy is Gilgamesh level. He can Gate of Babylown ANY servant with UBW. Besides, if Shirou beat Saber HF bad end, why Archer wouldn't?

>> No.6763036

Archer can't use Ea, he isn't Gil level

>> No.6763042

I don't get why people act like Nasuverse is all power level based when clearly it's the opposite of the Shonen powerlevel bullshit in that someone with a good enough power will be useful against something else at some point.

>> No.6763047

But still, what can possibly stop him of unleashing a rain of swords on every servant? For example, Lancer.

>> No.6763049

He can probably block it with his flower shield so it doesn't matter.

>> No.6763051

Archer can't use Enkidu, Berserker would crush him.

Archer has nothing to do about Gae Bolg thrown version or Excalibur or Enuma Elish.

Casting UBW is a time-consuming and mana-obliterating process, too.

Furthermore, Archer never takes the grail war seriously.

>> No.6763057

Well, Rho Aias stopped Excalibur in HF, but I don't think it would be able to stop Ea.

>> No.6763058

>Archer is weaker then Gil
>Shriou is Archer
>Shirou can kill Gil
F/SN - Hypocrisy/Stay Night

>> No.6763060


Fuck no did you even pay attention?

Rho Aias works as a conceptual weapon against THROWN ATTACKS.
Thrown lances, thrown swords, thrown daggers, thrown hammers, etc. Not fired arrows or waves of space/time.
Furthermore, Enuma Elish would utterly shatter 7 Fortress defenses anyway.

>> No.6763062


No it didn't, it dampened an A++ attack just enough for an A+ attack to barely overwhelm it.

>> No.6763066

Bitches don't know about the power of love

>> No.6763068

Wooho! Powerlevel threads, quality!

But no, I am increadibly bored, I will bite.
To be summed up easily, the Archer class of the nasuverse is built around versitality and is more akin to the classic DnD rogue than anything else.
And Archer EMIYA, being a rather special servant, does in fact have among the higher potential among the servants, but that doesn't have to mean anything if he can't do anything.

Archer in f/sn is one of the most mana recource costly servants there is.
Lancer can technically run up and Gae Bolg someone and that would be it.
But if Archer were to do the same, he would first have to 1. Project it. 2. make it into a broken phantasm if it is to have the same effect, and 3. activate it as a noble phantasm.
This is 2 steps others don't have to go through, and stat wise he is below most servants, something that can be compensated in various ways, but yet again, that still costs energy.

Also, Dark Saber, while being stronger than Saber in most of every way, having a raw power boost and unlimited energy, her instinct was still lower allowing her to not follow the movement of the technique, soemthing ordinary Saber would have done.
But even then, she only never used her Noble phantasm on him as he wasn't seen as a regular threat, Archer would have been realized as a threat and would have been dealt with accordingly.

>> No.6763077

>Archer can't use Enkidu, Berserker would crush him.
Shirou defeated Dark Berserker in HF

>Archer has nothing to do about Gae Bolg thrown version or Excalibur or Enuma Elish.
I'll give you Enuma Elish maybe, though Shirou cut Gil's arm before he could use it, and Archer stopped Gae Bolg with Rho Aias

>Casting UBW is a time-consuming and mana-obliterating process, too.
That didn't stopped Shirou of using it against Gil

>> No.6763089

What's Excalibur then? A thrown sword? Because if I remember correctly Shirou stopped it in Heaven's Feel, at least he stopped it enough for Rider to act.

>> No.6763105

Archer "blocking" Gae Bolg in UBW was Archer's loss.
He was confident in his shield, but with it went the functionality of his arm and most of his energy wheras Lancer was as up and go as ever.
If he wanted Lancer could have just stepped up to him and stabbed him out of existence afterwards.

Dark Berserker was practically already dying, had lost God Hand, and was blind.

But yes, UBW doesn't have to be that time consuming, and I don't even think there is anything that says he can't pull off an improvised version by simply not doing the full chant.
Not that it matters much though, UBW isn't exactly overpowered compared to any other instant win abillity of the others.

>> No.6763115

All the Servants are broken.

Given circumstances x, Servant n can be said to completely mow over every other Servant without fail.

Saber, x = Avalon
Every scenario it's with someone else. With Avalon even Gil can't do anything with her, and it blocks out the grail curse as well. Walking invincibility mode.

Lancer, x = Capable Master
Cu Chulainn is already an accomplished warrior/general/magic user five times over. In the hands of someone who's ulterior motive ISN'T suffering and misery, he's ace against every opponent. His biggest gyp is that he's classified as Lancer--he'd rip everyone's shit far more as Rider or Saber.

>> No.6763124

Shirou is weaker than Gil too. That's why power levels are stupid and you shouldn't waste your time thinking about them.

>> No.6763127

The shield is a shield against projectile attacks.
It doesn't simply counter thrown things.

Excalibur however, if we are to go all nitpicky on things, is a so called extended slash, technically meaning it is a "melee" attack.
Though in practice, it doesn't exactly carry the qualites of a melee attack due to the whole extended part.
In either case, the shield is still a shield of great power, and it's concept alone could surely have an effect on the conceptual strength of something mystical rank to a certain extent.
In either case, if it wasn't for how they were ramming straight at them, I bet they would have been overwhelmed by excalibur either way had they been left in the blast.

>> No.6763141

The whole Nasuverse feels like something a 16-year old goth kid who reads one too many fantasy novels scribbled in his notebook during a boring lecture at school.
How can you have those discussions all the time and look for logic in the setting is beyond me.

>> No.6763142

Lancer would be rape incarnate as Berserker.
Riastrad, so good.

>> No.6763147

Archer killed Berserker six times

Blocked Ea once

Blocked Gae Bolg thrown version

These are all things that happened in the game

>> No.6763154

Immagine the fourth war, but with Kiritsugu summoning Archer instead, and Archer actually working with him.

>> No.6763162

Assassin, x = proper backup
He stopped Berserker AND Lancer from getting into Ryuudouji. That's two amazing feats of strength. If Caster weren't fail at investigating (because let's face it, the top magus of the city should have KNOWN to look into the victor of the previous Grail War), he'd have been the best put-down Servant, with Archer(s) being his only major threat.

Assassin (True), x = nothing.
Actually this guy's pretty on the level. Gilgamesh might have been his only possible downfall due to prior knowledge. And Zouken immediately demonstrated once he threw his chip in that the 5th War was full of Women and Children.

Gilgamesh, x = - Ego
4th War Gil would have ripped the whole roster to pieces for touching what's his. We all know this. His biggest threat is and will be the shadow.

Archer, x = - His vendetta
He's proven to be on 4th Lancer's level in outthinking even Saber's Spider-Man like reflexes, and puts Xanatos Gambits together like he's spelling three-letter words with Alphabits and gets ALL the vowels/consonants in his bowl. And he has an effective method to shut down every Servant, on top of the independence stat to commit said shut-down.

>> No.6763173

>Archer killed Berserker six times
Yes, and he died, and it wasn't even more than half of Berserker.
And there was nothing stoping Berserker from ruining Archer faster, so there isn't even anything that says that he have the odds of taking him down even once just becaause he can.

He offsetted a small kiddy Ea blast that Gil reluctantly used against a petty civilian child.

Archer lost when couldn't fully block GeaBolg.

>> No.6763188

Rider, x = Capable Master
Sakura sucked as a Master. If she had Rin's moxy, then Rider would have been a deadly force both up front in battle and using more underhanded tactics.

Berserker, x = Non-whimsical Master, x = Nine Lives
Notice a pattern? I'd state it even for Rin, but Archer's mind is what let's him complement Rin's overly naive strategies, thus it cancels. But for most Servants, the fault goes straight to the Master. Really, what was Berserker supposed to do once the other Servants started dropping and Illya started losing bodily functions? Illya held him back in every possible way.

Also, no access at all to his USEFUL Noble Phantasms.

Caster, x = trust
If she weren't so bloody ashamed of nearly-killing people in the city and trusted the man that basically dub-conned her more, they'd have ruled the whole war from the comfort of their temple. with swaths of dead folks everywhere and Servants dropping like flies as Assassin became the shield and Saber became the sword.

>> No.6763196

That would be an... awkward scenario.

>> No.6763197

Shiki can kill servants. Discuss.

>> No.6763199

Archer would kill him at the first chance he got.

No Kiritsugu=No Emiya Shirou=No EMIYA

>> No.6763200

Can we talk about the heroines instead? I don't feel like another power levels thread.

Sakura was superior and anyone who argues otherwise is a meme spouting faggot.

>> No.6763203

Gae Bolg normal version.
He loses in one hit. Tadaa.

>> No.6763206

Kiritsugu winning the war would also = no EMIYA.

>> No.6763210
File: 86 KB, 1280x720, centipede_well_i_wonder_737.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I agree. Rin is a slut.

>> No.6763215

Nope. For his plan to work at all, he has to kill a Shirou that sets down very nearly the same path as he did for the paradox to be big enough to have even a chance of erasing him.

>> No.6763221
File: 46 KB, 400x400, sakura153.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

There has been a rather interesting scenario written about what would happen if Archer was accidentally summoned during the 4th war by Rin and Sakura.

>> No.6763224
File: 40 KB, 576x388, rinb1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Don't talk shit about my waifu

>> No.6763225
File: 68 KB, 400x400, sakura155.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763227

I thought servants were removed from the time, and wouldn't be effected like this

>> No.6763229

Bland personality, shitty Master and very difficult to empathise with. Rin and Saber were the better heroines.

>> No.6763230
File: 93 KB, 400x400, sakura217.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763232

You guys should read the ultimate Chuuni, Dies Irae, then discuss its powerlevels instead.

>> No.6763234

The whole time travel thing is a kind of stupid. there is no actual time travel, servants exist in a parallel world, whatever happens in the real world can't affect their existance.

>> No.6763236

They are

>> No.6763237

No, I think you mean HNNNNGGGGGG

>> No.6763238

>most of his energy
Did you just completely overlook his later killing of Caster/Kuzuki and manhandling of Shirou & Saber ON TOP of casting UBW to attempt to prove a point?

Btw, your point is full of holes, broski.

>Kiri summoning Archer

More like Tokiomi fucking up and summoning Archer. Fuck you people are boring--no one wants Archer to perfect an entire war with his dad and then later snipe his soon-to-be self. I'd rather he have to go toe-to-toe with the man and let the blood and tears of Fuyuki flow like the sweetest wine.

>> No.6763245

in b4sudowudo

>> No.6763246
File: 98 KB, 400x400, sakura150.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Even more the reason why Archer would want to win

>> No.6763251

>bland personality
Oh wow, when the other choices are
Rin: 1 dimensional tsundere bullshit
Saber: No personality at all
I don't see how you can say that.

>> No.6763252

True, but somehow I don't believe Archer would pass up on the chance of doing some small damage in his timeline while waiting for the one golden ticket of appearing in the 5th grail war.

>> No.6763253
File: 82 KB, 400x400, sakura205.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763258
File: 62 KB, 400x400, sakura156.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763269
File: 64 KB, 400x400, sakura254.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763271
File: 58 KB, 400x400, sakura259.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Archer isn't coming back

>> No.6763272
File: 54 KB, 300x450, 1245126008177.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Was Archer present in the scenario that led to Shirou becoming Archer?

>> No.6763276
File: 64 KB, 400x400, saber5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763277


>> No.6763279

Archer in that 5GW wasn't EMIYA.

>> No.6763283
File: 74 KB, 400x400, sakura75.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763285

>I'd rather he have to go toe-to-toe with the man and let the blood and tears of Fuyuki flow like the sweetest wine.
Kiri is t one with all the un-orthodox, non-convential, underhanded tactics though.

>> No.6763291
File: 65 KB, 400x400, sakura76.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763298

If that's all you have to say about Rin and Saber, then I must conclude that you didn't give them ANY attention whilst playing the VN.

Sword spam isn't very costly, if I recall correctly. And the UBW activation was a bluff to save himself from being Excalibeamed.
Independent Action is ridiculous.

>> No.6763301
File: 751 KB, 988x1400, 08.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763303

No, Archer, no!

>> No.6763306

Emiya summoned saber, rin summoned someone else, the war was the same until emiya got intimate with Illya somehow, and when he saved her from becoming the holy grail, she died because she was a homunculus so emiya got sad and became archer

>> No.6763316
File: 73 KB, 400x400, sakura81.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763318

We talking the same Kiritsugu? The one who's entire battle strategy is be underhanded, acquire victory? Seeing Archer having to outthink THAT would be the epitome of a great adventure.

>> No.6763322
File: 53 KB, 400x400, sakura253.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763329

Indipendent Action lets a servant act independintly for about 1-2 days rather than the same amount in hours.

And if anything other than a plot ensured force driven by will, then it must be the fact that he supposedly didn't do anything at all for most of that time, as if that could possibly stretch his supposed act time.

>> No.6763330

>rin summoned someone else
Probably Robin Hood
But otherwise, wow, that sort of plot flow sounds exactly like something Nasu would write.

>> No.6763332
File: 65 KB, 400x400, sakura199.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763337


>> No.6763344
File: 95 KB, 400x400, sakura234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763345

elaborating on this
he became archer with the intention of going back in time and finding a way to save her, although as time passed he lost sight of his true objective and starting hating his existence

i think this makes some sense

>> No.6763355

These pictures actually layout a pretty nice story when put together, this could make for a good alt world.

>> No.6763357

>so emiya got sad and became archer
Archer acted very similarly to Shirou up until his final moments. He gained that twisted personality only after becoming a counter guardian.

>> No.6763359

It wasn't a bluff. He likely predicted how Shirou might have reacted, but that still doesn't lessen the fact that Saber was in checkmate--she couldn't dodge all of those swords and she had Shirou to shield.

The Excalibeam threat wasn't a bluff either. No matter what, at that point Archer's ambition (killing Shirou) would have been accomplished. He had reserves, which is the entire point of Independent Action--both Archer and Gil make good use of this skill (to a point where Tokiomi was little more than a glorified battery).

You want to undersell Archer, that's fine. Just find a more concrete argument to do so. He had prana to spare--it was Saber's misjudgment on how deep his reserves went.

>> No.6763361
File: 91 KB, 400x400, sakura220.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763368

They're actually illustrations for a fanfic, IIRC.

>> No.6763371

>he became archer with the intention of going back in time and finding a way to save her
Except that's fucking wrong. EMIYA became a CG by making a pact with the world to achieve a minor miracle to save a handful of people from an inevitable death. He was fine with the eternal servitude to Alaya as he figured it would allow him to continue saving people even after death. Except this was wrong and all he did was kill and kill and kill. Never saving, only killing, cleaning up after humanity had already made a mess of a situation.
It was due to this infinite cycle of killing that he eventually became bitter and grew to hate ever becoming a CG in the first place.

>> No.6763374

One of Archer's skills is "Eye of the Mind (True)"

Meaning if there's even a 1% chance of victory he can find it, he's the only servant in this war that has the true version.

>> No.6763389
File: 77 KB, 400x400, sakura224.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763401

my version was more dramatic

>> No.6763402

>he became archer with the intention of going back in time and finding a way to save her, although as time passed he lost sight of his true objective and starting hating his existence
There is no time travel.
What Archer wanted to do in f/sn wasn't even exactly to alter time, it was to create a paradox to ruin things rather than alter things. A phenomenon he himself most likely didn't believe in either.

He became a guardian because he thought that he could realize a world were everyone could be happy as one.
But instead he was forced to have killed/kill endless people who needed saving, as sacrifices. And got to see nothing else but endless misery and suffering, endless misery and suffering that never ended in the entire eternity that he had already spent doing such a thing.

Archer never wanted to kill people, in fact such a thing was always out of the question for him and completely unacceptable. Yet he had done it when he had felt forced to, in the hopes of doing so would have prevented anything like it to ever be needed again.

But the place he finally ended up with after his death, was not the realization of his ideal, but close to the opposite of it, and he was forced to endlessly act against it, doing what had always been seen as unacceptable.
The conclusion he reached was that surely such a hero should have never existed.
But from the sole fact that he had already experienced his eternity, the fact that nothing would change already remained.
That is, unless someone completely breached the 4th wall and broke the rules of time and the world, as well as the throne itself. Something that had never happen though.

>> No.6763417

So, who was Archer's girlfriend anyway?

>> No.6763422

Nobody knows.

>> No.6763426

Wait. what girlfriend?

>> No.6763431


>> No.6763432

Mind of Steel

>> No.6763435


>> No.6763444

He had a relation with Iliya, but to what end is unclear.
Fanon easily wants to assume he got the cut Iliya end, perhaps most likely due to
1. Iliya
2. Because her route is cut and because people want what they don't get.

But for all we know his relationship could be of the friendly sort that was seen in Fate or HF, and his girlfriend could be anyone from Rin, Sakura or even Ayako for all we knows.

>> No.6763460

I always immagined that as well, and him holding back on all that back story as it wasn't relevant for him anymore.
et it makes everything far more hilarious whenever they don't get along, hence partly why I like to think of it that way.

>> No.6763462

Archer uses Snapshot.

Archer is now a sword.

>> No.6763467
File: 19 KB, 300x300, Trolkastel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.6763470

There's actually a better chance of it being Saber, he hesitated during his first fight with Saber letting himself take a pretty nasty wound yet he was ready to let Shinji rape Rin during her route.

It's been said there was maybe a 15% of him becoming Archer during Saber's arc, 5% after Rin's, and 0% after Sakura's

Probably not the real Statistics but Nasu did say something to that effect.

>> No.6763471

That seems unlikely since he told Rin that Shirou won't become like him if she's around.

>> No.6763477

Hahaha, oh wow. Another thing Ryukishi stole.

>> No.6763480

Didn't Nasu actually say that the "Shirou summoning Saber" flashback in the prologue was actually Archer's memory?

>> No.6763488
File: 96 KB, 700x950, 1177475288172.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Heart broken after Saber dies Shirou decides to commit himself to becoming a hero now more than ever, unfortunatly no matter how great of a hero he becomes he still finds himself to save one so close to him ...Ilya.

>> No.6763489

>if she's around.
She died in his war.
Doesn't have to mean they didn't get intimate though.

Sure, thought about that as well.
But I explained what I would like to immagine.
It would be funny, don't you think? And Rin would never have known.

>> No.6763492

It's alluded to in HA at the very least with it following up with the whole "I'll remember this sight even long after I've gone to hell" line or whatever with something to the effect of "He remembered that sight even after he fell into hell".

>> No.6763505
File: 528 KB, 1125x1600, Theater_of_Fate_041.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

This doujinshi right here is probably one of the best Fate related things still left untranslated.

>> No.6763535


>Did you just completely overlook his later killing of Caster/Kuzuki and manhandling of Shirou & Saber ON TOP of casting UBW to attempt to prove a point?

He had spent a good deal of time after his battle with Lancer recuperating with Caster's prana.
He probably started that battle completely full up, even after the mass-tracing he used to kill Caster herself.

>> No.6763568
File: 122 KB, 700x322, Archer-kun.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6763582
File: 26 KB, 220x321, 1294290107652.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]



>> No.6765151

He became afirefighter instead of a heroic spirit in this one, right?
But did the war(s) ever take place?

>> No.6765904

Was this ever translated?

>> No.6765994

Archer threads always make me depressed because even after UBW end where he smiles geniunely at Rin and promises that he'll be fine, I realize that everything will just become a blur memory to him and he'll still be doomed to act as a depressed CG for all of eternity.

Jesus, every ending always have something unbearable, but this takes the cake.

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