/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Nasuverse power levels are bullshit. I mean, Archer is one of the weakest Servants? Don't give me that crap. The guy is Gilgamesh level. He can Gate of Babylown ANY servant with UBW. Besides, if Shirou beat Saber HF bad end, why Archer wouldn't?

[Anonymous No.]

Archer can't use Ea, he isn't Gil level

[Anonymous No.]

I don't get why people act like Nasuverse is all power level based when clearly it's the opposite of the Shonen powerlevel bullshit in that someone with a good enough power will be useful against something else at some point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763036
But still, what can possibly stop him of unleashing a rain of swords on every servant? For example, Lancer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763036
He can probably block it with his flower shield so it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.]

Archer can't use Enkidu, Berserker would crush him.

Archer has nothing to do about Gae Bolg thrown version or Excalibur or Enuma Elish.


Casting UBW is a time-consuming and mana-obliterating process, too.

Furthermore, Archer never takes the grail war seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763049
Well, Rho Aias stopped Excalibur in HF, but I don't think it would be able to stop Ea.

[Anonymous No.]

>Archer is weaker then Gil
>Shriou is Archer
>Shirou can kill Gil
F/SN - Hypocrisy/Stay Night

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763049

Fuck no did you even pay attention?

Rho Aias works as a conceptual weapon against THROWN ATTACKS.
Thrown lances, thrown swords, thrown daggers, thrown hammers, etc. Not fired arrows or waves of space/time.
Furthermore, Enuma Elish would utterly shatter 7 Fortress defenses anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763057

No it didn't, it dampened an A++ attack just enough for an A+ attack to barely overwhelm it.

[Anonymous No.]

Bitches don't know about the power of love

[Anonymous No.]

Wooho! Powerlevel threads, quality!

But no, I am increadibly bored, I will bite.
To be summed up easily, the Archer class of the nasuverse is built around versitality and is more akin to the classic DnD rogue than anything else.
And Archer EMIYA, being a rather special servant, does in fact have among the higher potential among the servants, but that doesn't have to mean anything if he can't do anything.

Archer in f/sn is one of the most mana recource costly servants there is.
Lancer can technically run up and Gae Bolg someone and that would be it.
But if Archer were to do the same, he would first have to 1. Project it. 2. make it into a broken phantasm if it is to have the same effect, and 3. activate it as a noble phantasm.
This is 2 steps others don't have to go through, and stat wise he is below most servants, something that can be compensated in various ways, but yet again, that still costs energy.

Also, Dark Saber, while being stronger than Saber in most of every way, having a raw power boost and unlimited energy, her instinct was still lower allowing her to not follow the movement of the technique, soemthing ordinary Saber would have done.
But even then, she only never used her Noble phantasm on him as he wasn't seen as a regular threat, Archer would have been realized as a threat and would have been dealt with accordingly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763051
>Archer can't use Enkidu, Berserker would crush him.
Shirou defeated Dark Berserker in HF

>Archer has nothing to do about Gae Bolg thrown version or Excalibur or Enuma Elish.
I'll give you Enuma Elish maybe, though Shirou cut Gil's arm before he could use it, and Archer stopped Gae Bolg with Rho Aias

>Casting UBW is a time-consuming and mana-obliterating process, too.
That didn't stopped Shirou of using it against Gil

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763060
What's Excalibur then? A thrown sword? Because if I remember correctly Shirou stopped it in Heaven's Feel, at least he stopped it enough for Rider to act.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763077
Archer "blocking" Gae Bolg in UBW was Archer's loss.
He was confident in his shield, but with it went the functionality of his arm and most of his energy wheras Lancer was as up and go as ever.
If he wanted Lancer could have just stepped up to him and stabbed him out of existence afterwards.

Dark Berserker was practically already dying, had lost God Hand, and was blind.

But yes, UBW doesn't have to be that time consuming, and I don't even think there is anything that says he can't pull off an improvised version by simply not doing the full chant.
Not that it matters much though, UBW isn't exactly overpowered compared to any other instant win abillity of the others.

[Anonymous No.]

All the Servants are broken.

Given circumstances x, Servant n can be said to completely mow over every other Servant without fail.

Saber, x = Avalon
Every scenario it's with someone else. With Avalon even Gil can't do anything with her, and it blocks out the grail curse as well. Walking invincibility mode.

Lancer, x = Capable Master
Cu Chulainn is already an accomplished warrior/general/magic user five times over. In the hands of someone who's ulterior motive ISN'T suffering and misery, he's ace against every opponent. His biggest gyp is that he's classified as Lancer--he'd rip everyone's shit far more as Rider or Saber.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763058
Shirou is weaker than Gil too. That's why power levels are stupid and you shouldn't waste your time thinking about them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763089
>>6763060
The shield is a shield against projectile attacks.
It doesn't simply counter thrown things.

Excalibur however, if we are to go all nitpicky on things, is a so called extended slash, technically meaning it is a "melee" attack.
Though in practice, it doesn't exactly carry the qualites of a melee attack due to the whole extended part.
In either case, the shield is still a shield of great power, and it's concept alone could surely have an effect on the conceptual strength of something mystical rank to a certain extent.
In either case, if it wasn't for how they were ramming straight at them, I bet they would have been overwhelmed by excalibur either way had they been left in the blast.

[Anonymous No.]

The whole Nasuverse feels like something a 16-year old goth kid who reads one too many fantasy novels scribbled in his notebook during a boring lecture at school.
How can you have those discussions all the time and look for logic in the setting is beyond me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763115
Lancer would be rape incarnate as Berserker.
Riastrad, so good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763051
Archer killed Berserker six times

Blocked Ea once

Blocked Gae Bolg thrown version

These are all things that happened in the game

[Anonymous No.]

Immagine the fourth war, but with Kiritsugu summoning Archer instead, and Archer actually working with him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763115
Assassin, x = proper backup
He stopped Berserker AND Lancer from getting into Ryuudouji. That's two amazing feats of strength. If Caster weren't fail at investigating (because let's face it, the top magus of the city should have KNOWN to look into the victor of the previous Grail War), he'd have been the best put-down Servant, with Archer(s) being his only major threat.

Assassin (True), x = nothing.
Actually this guy's pretty on the level. Gilgamesh might have been his only possible downfall due to prior knowledge. And Zouken immediately demonstrated once he threw his chip in that the 5th War was full of Women and Children.

Gilgamesh, x = - Ego
4th War Gil would have ripped the whole roster to pieces for touching what's his. We all know this. His biggest threat is and will be the shadow.

Archer, x = - His vendetta
He's proven to be on 4th Lancer's level in outthinking even Saber's Spider-Man like reflexes, and puts Xanatos Gambits together like he's spelling three-letter words with Alphabits and gets ALL the vowels/consonants in his bowl. And he has an effective method to shut down every Servant, on top of the independence stat to commit said shut-down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763147
>Archer killed Berserker six times
Yes, and he died, and it wasn't even more than half of Berserker.
And there was nothing stoping Berserker from ruining Archer faster, so there isn't even anything that says that he have the odds of taking him down even once just becaause he can.

He offsetted a small kiddy Ea blast that Gil reluctantly used against a petty civilian child.

Archer lost when couldn't fully block GeaBolg.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763162
Rider, x = Capable Master
Sakura sucked as a Master. If she had Rin's moxy, then Rider would have been a deadly force both up front in battle and using more underhanded tactics.

Berserker, x = Non-whimsical Master, x = Nine Lives
Notice a pattern? I'd state it even for Rin, but Archer's mind is what let's him complement Rin's overly naive strategies, thus it cancels. But for most Servants, the fault goes straight to the Master. Really, what was Berserker supposed to do once the other Servants started dropping and Illya started losing bodily functions? Illya held him back in every possible way.

Also, no access at all to his USEFUL Noble Phantasms.

Caster, x = trust
If she weren't so bloody ashamed of nearly-killing people in the city and trusted the man that basically dub-conned her more, they'd have ruled the whole war from the comfort of their temple. with swaths of dead folks everywhere and Servants dropping like flies as Assassin became the shield and Saber became the sword.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763154
That would be an... awkward scenario.

[Anonymous No.]

Shiki can kill servants. Discuss.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763154
Archer would kill him at the first chance he got.

No Kiritsugu=No Emiya Shirou=No EMIYA

[Anonymous No.]

Can we talk about the heroines instead? I don't feel like another power levels thread.

Sakura was superior and anyone who argues otherwise is a meme spouting faggot.

[Myshkin !hQkb7UnWrk No.]

>>6763019
Gae Bolg normal version.
He loses in one hit. Tadaa.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763199
Kiritsugu winning the war would also = no EMIYA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763200
I agree. Rin is a slut.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763199
Nope. For his plan to work at all, he has to kill a Shirou that sets down very nearly the same path as he did for the paradox to be big enough to have even a chance of erasing him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763196
There has been a rather interesting scenario written about what would happen if Archer was accidentally summoned during the 4th war by Rin and Sakura.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763210
Don't talk shit about my waifu

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763206
>>6763199
I thought servants were removed from the time, and wouldn't be effected like this

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763200
>Sakura
Bland personality, shitty Master and very difficult to empathise with. Rin and Saber were the better heroines.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

You guys should read the ultimate Chuuni, Dies Irae, then discuss its powerlevels instead.

[Anonymous No.]

The whole time travel thing is a kind of stupid. there is no actual time travel, servants exist in a parallel world, whatever happens in the real world can't affect their existance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763227
They are

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763221
>Interesting
No, I think you mean HNNNNGGGGGG

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763188
>most of his energy
Did you just completely overlook his later killing of Caster/Kuzuki and manhandling of Shirou & Saber ON TOP of casting UBW to attempt to prove a point?

Btw, your point is full of holes, broski.

>Kiri summoning Archer

More like Tokiomi fucking up and summoning Archer. Fuck you people are boring--no one wants Archer to perfect an entire war with his dad and then later snipe his soon-to-be self. I'd rather he have to go toe-to-toe with the man and let the blood and tears of Fuyuki flow like the sweetest wine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763210
in b4sudowudo

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763206
Even more the reason why Archer would want to win

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763229
>bland personality
Oh wow, when the other choices are
Rin: 1 dimensional tsundere bullshit
Saber: No personality at all
I don't see how you can say that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763215
True, but somehow I don't believe Archer would pass up on the chance of doing some small damage in his timeline while waiting for the one golden ticket of appearing in the 5th grail war.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Archer isn't coming back

[Anonymous No.]

Was Archer present in the scenario that led to Shirou becoming Archer?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>powerlevels
http://www38.atwiki.jp/saikyouhero/pages/11.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763272
Archer in that 5GW wasn't EMIYA.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763238
>I'd rather he have to go toe-to-toe with the man and let the blood and tears of Fuyuki flow like the sweetest wine.
Kiri is t one with all the un-orthodox, non-convential, underhanded tactics though.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763251
If that's all you have to say about Rin and Saber, then I must conclude that you didn't give them ANY attention whilst playing the VN.

>>6763238
Sword spam isn't very costly, if I recall correctly. And the UBW activation was a bluff to save himself from being Excalibeamed.
Independent Action is ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763283
>>6763291
No, Archer, no!

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763272
Emiya summoned saber, rin summoned someone else, the war was the same until emiya got intimate with Illya somehow, and when he saved her from becoming the holy grail, she died because she was a homunculus so emiya got sad and became archer

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763285
We talking the same Kiritsugu? The one who's entire battle strategy is be underhanded, acquire victory? Seeing Archer having to outthink THAT would be the epitome of a great adventure.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Indipendent Action lets a servant act independintly for about 1-2 days rather than the same amount in hours.

And if anything other than a plot ensured force driven by will, then it must be the fact that he supposedly didn't do anything at all for most of that time, as if that could possibly stretch his supposed act time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763306
>rin summoned someone else
Probably Robin Hood
But otherwise, wow, that sort of plot flow sounds exactly like something Nasu would write.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763306
THE FUTURE REFUSED TO CHANGE

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763306
elaborating on this
he became archer with the intention of going back in time and finding a way to save her, although as time passed he lost sight of his true objective and starting hating his existence

i think this makes some sense

[Anonymous No.]

These pictures actually layout a pretty nice story when put together, this could make for a good alt world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763306
>so emiya got sad and became archer
Archer acted very similarly to Shirou up until his final moments. He gained that twisted personality only after becoming a counter guardian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763298
It wasn't a bluff. He likely predicted how Shirou might have reacted, but that still doesn't lessen the fact that Saber was in checkmate--she couldn't dodge all of those swords and she had Shirou to shield.

The Excalibeam threat wasn't a bluff either. No matter what, at that point Archer's ambition (killing Shirou) would have been accomplished. He had reserves, which is the entire point of Independent Action--both Archer and Gil make good use of this skill (to a point where Tokiomi was little more than a glorified battery).

You want to undersell Archer, that's fine. Just find a more concrete argument to do so. He had prana to spare--it was Saber's misjudgment on how deep his reserves went.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763355
They're actually illustrations for a fanfic, IIRC.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763345
>he became archer with the intention of going back in time and finding a way to save her
Except that's fucking wrong. EMIYA became a CG by making a pact with the world to achieve a minor miracle to save a handful of people from an inevitable death. He was fine with the eternal servitude to Alaya as he figured it would allow him to continue saving people even after death. Except this was wrong and all he did was kill and kill and kill. Never saving, only killing, cleaning up after humanity had already made a mess of a situation.
It was due to this infinite cycle of killing that he eventually became bitter and grew to hate ever becoming a CG in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763359
One of Archer's skills is "Eye of the Mind (True)"

Meaning if there's even a 1% chance of victory he can find it, he's the only servant in this war that has the true version.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763371
my version was more dramatic

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763345
>he became archer with the intention of going back in time and finding a way to save her, although as time passed he lost sight of his true objective and starting hating his existence
There is no time travel.
What Archer wanted to do in f/sn wasn't even exactly to alter time, it was to create a paradox to ruin things rather than alter things. A phenomenon he himself most likely didn't believe in either.

He became a guardian because he thought that he could realize a world were everyone could be happy as one.
But instead he was forced to have killed/kill endless people who needed saving, as sacrifices. And got to see nothing else but endless misery and suffering, endless misery and suffering that never ended in the entire eternity that he had already spent doing such a thing.

Archer never wanted to kill people, in fact such a thing was always out of the question for him and completely unacceptable. Yet he had done it when he had felt forced to, in the hopes of doing so would have prevented anything like it to ever be needed again.

But the place he finally ended up with after his death, was not the realization of his ideal, but close to the opposite of it, and he was forced to endlessly act against it, doing what had always been seen as unacceptable.
The conclusion he reached was that surely such a hero should have never existed.
But from the sole fact that he had already experienced his eternity, the fact that nothing would change already remained.
That is, unless someone completely breached the 4th wall and broke the rules of time and the world, as well as the throne itself. Something that had never happen though.

[Anonymous No.]

So, who was Archer's girlfriend anyway?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763417
Nobody knows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763417
Wait. what girlfriend?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763417
Rin

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763417
Mind of Steel

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763417
Index.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763417
He had a relation with Iliya, but to what end is unclear.
Fanon easily wants to assume he got the cut Iliya end, perhaps most likely due to
1. Iliya
2. Because her route is cut and because people want what they don't get.

But for all we know his relationship could be of the friendly sort that was seen in Fate or HF, and his girlfriend could be anyone from Rin, Sakura or even Ayako for all we knows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763431
>Rin
I always immagined that as well, and him holding back on all that back story as it wasn't relevant for him anymore.
et it makes everything far more hilarious whenever they don't get along, hence partly why I like to think of it that way.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

Archer uses Snapshot.

Archer is now a sword.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763374

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763460
There's actually a better chance of it being Saber, he hesitated during his first fight with Saber letting himself take a pretty nasty wound yet he was ready to let Shinji rape Rin during her route.

It's been said there was maybe a 15% of him becoming Archer during Saber's arc, 5% after Rin's, and 0% after Sakura's

Probably not the real Statistics but Nasu did say something to that effect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763460
That seems unlikely since he told Rin that Shirou won't become like him if she's around.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763467
Hahaha, oh wow. Another thing Ryukishi stole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763470
Didn't Nasu actually say that the "Shirou summoning Saber" flashback in the prologue was actually Archer's memory?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763470
Heart broken after Saber dies Shirou decides to commit himself to becoming a hero now more than ever, unfortunatly no matter how great of a hero he becomes he still finds himself to save one so close to him ...Ilya.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763471
>if she's around.
She died in his war.
Doesn't have to mean they didn't get intimate though.

>>6763470
Sure, thought about that as well.
But I explained what I would like to immagine.
It would be funny, don't you think? And Rin would never have known.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763480
It's alluded to in HA at the very least with it following up with the whole "I'll remember this sight even long after I've gone to hell" line or whatever with something to the effect of "He remembered that sight even after he fell into hell".

[Anonymous No.]

This doujinshi right here is probably one of the best Fate related things still left untranslated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763238

>Did you just completely overlook his later killing of Caster/Kuzuki and manhandling of Shirou & Saber ON TOP of casting UBW to attempt to prove a point?

He had spent a good deal of time after his battle with Lancer recuperating with Caster's prana.
He probably started that battle completely full up, even after the mass-tracing he used to kill Caster herself.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763568

WHAT YOU SAY!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763505
He became afirefighter instead of a heroic spirit in this one, right?
But did the war(s) ever take place?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6763505
Was this ever translated?

[Anonymous No.]

Archer threads always make me depressed because even after UBW end where he smiles geniunely at Rin and promises that he'll be fine, I realize that everything will just become a blur memory to him and he'll still be doomed to act as a depressed CG for all of eternity.

Jesus, every ending always have something unbearable, but this takes the cake.