/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Has anyone made a theory which counters Yashkaliontrice? ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

How can you counter that which is explained by the author to be the part of the solution, besides with lots of autism?

[Anonymous No.]

It's the only thing that makes sense and isn't butt-fuck retarded.

You should be glad it's presented the way it is. It could be worse, like 'LOL CRAZY DID BITCH WITH MAGICAL SWITCHING PERSONALITIES' that was going around in Ep6.


...Actually, judging by the picture, you're one of the people that probably don't know it's not alternate personalities still.

[Anonymous No.]

If she really had MPS the host personality wouldn't know the rest of the personalities.

So Yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563317 isn't butt-fuck retarded
...

[Anonymous No.]

I have an alternate theory, it's actually not too far-fetched either. If you guys care to listen to it, though probably wouldn't be the first time anyone has thought of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563359
Hurry up and post it.
Don't know about the rest of /jp/ but I'm always interested in a new theory (yes even that retarded "Maria is a vegetable and everyone is just humoring Rosa" one that some /jp/ anon thought up.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563359
Did you play EP7? If not, there's no use discussing this since you lack vital information.

[Anonymous No.]

Yes. We made one months before. But it seems everyone who made it left because idiots, idiots everywhere. The obnoxious ones were also the fags that always made fun of the Shkannontricefags too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563385
>The obnoxious ones were also the fags that always made fun of the Shkannontricefags too.
Actually one anon confessed that the whole anti-shkannon bullshit was made by a shkannon fag so that /jp/ would see all anti-shkannon people as retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563359
Please post, Anon. ;__;

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563371
>>6563375
Well I haven't played EP 7, no. But I ran this theory by a few people who have and they said that the theory itself is solid and is not full of any holes. To simplify, the story is based around three main events which is as follow.

Cliffbaby(Shannon/Beatrice) is thrown/falls off the cliff
Battler is baby swapped
Culprit X, Asumu's son is replaced with Battler. I'll just call this culprit X BATTLER.

In the most likely case, BATTLER is Kanon who was sent to an orphanage after the baby swap.

Basically is starts off like this.

Natsuhi is having trouble having a baby with Krauss, and needs to have a baby with an Ushiromiya. Kinzo gives her Shannon, she despises it and the cliff event happens. After that, she absolutely NEEDS to bear a child, so she has Rudolf help her. He sleeps with her to give her a child, of course she still tries with Krauss. Story skip she's pregnant and bears Jessica, surprise there is another kid on the way and she bears Battler(Main character Battler). Battler is Rudolf's kid, and Jessica is Krauss'. Medically speaking it is indeed possible for a mother two carry two different babies by different fathers at the same time. Something happens and they need to swap one of the kids/kill it/send it off to the orphanage. They give the baby Battler to Kinzo, Kinzo tells them to swap this kid with Asumu's real son. And so Rudolf does, the real son, BATTLER is sent off to the orphanage and begins his life as Kanon.

Following the story so far? There's a bit more which explains a few more events. But basically in the event that Natsuhi keeps the cliffbaby, Shannon/Yasu/Beatrice, Battler and Kanon both don't exist(Which follows EP 7 if I'm told correctly?).

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563404
Not this anon but reading through that made me remember something I thought of while reading ep5.

If Natsuhi couldn't get pregnant from Krauss and then suddenly she did maybe it wasn't natsuhi but Krauss that couldn't have kids? Then Kinzo (being a pimp) fucked his son's wife and Jessica is his daughter.

Is that useful for any kind of theory?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563419
To be fair in my theory it could work both ways, Jessica being Kinzo's daughter or Krauss' daughter. Perhaps Jessica could be Rudolf's, it really doesn't matter in Jessica's case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563404
It's not that Battler doesn't exist, he just doesn't come back because Rudolph doesn't need to throw his weight around at the conference. Kanon is also shown.
You theory basically boils down to "Battler is actually Natsuhi's and Kanon is the true Battler, Asumu's son?"
EP7 shows Shannon thinking up Kanon's existance, and in one scene Genji is talking like there's only one person with him while both Shannon and Kanon portraits are shown.
Also, how do you explain the whole meta-theme about them being less than humans and reaching humanhood only at the other's expense?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563404
Kanon and Battler are two different people.

Nice going, though. It works well on why would Kanon and Jessica cooperate to fuck people's shit up, since their motive looks similliar.

[Anonymous No.]

>Actually one anon confessed that the whole anti-shkannon bullshit was made by a shkannon fag so that /jp/ would see all anti-shkannon people as retarded.
Alright, this is plausible from what I remember of them. But it may not have been all but I won't get into that.

The point was that even if Shannon and Kanon turn out to be the same person they couldn't be Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563441
It also shows her being told Kanon arrived and she dreams him up right after that.
It would be hard to explain his first meeting with Jessica without that, anyway.
It explains why Kanon is always cold and asocial except in fantasy and Shkanon scenes.
Furniture means, say, they both know about the gold and only one can be the head in order to stop being a servant. Off the top of my head, how about that?

[Anonymous No.]

Has the Taiwan theory been disproved yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563483
It has been proved true, more or less. The hometown was Taiwan, and it was all about taking letters out from a key

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563483
If Ryukushi spawned it, only he can disprove it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563427
>Jessica being Kinzo's daughter or Krauss' daughter
Is that why R07 told in EP5 that Natsuhi didn't sleep with Kinzo? As an hint to be sure that Jessica is Krauss' daughter? If that's so, then that would mean he's a fucking soothsayer on fan theories.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563441
>>6563446
Hmm. Well, let me finish up some of the other stuff I didn't mention so you guys see the full theory cause the rest explains the meta-theme and lack of human shit. Since it seems like some of my theory only needs to be reworked slightly.

After awhile Kanon learns he is actually an Ushiromiya(By someone, probably Nanjo or Genji?). Now, I don't know about anyone else but I myself would be furious if I found out I was replaced and someone stole my name. So, Kanon decides to exact revenge. Basically, Yoshiya can be taken from Ushiromiya. With the exception of adding a spare "ya". Kanon tells Jessica the truth, that she is in fact Battler's sister and that Krauss is most likely not her real father. Jessica tells Shannon who is in love with Battler that Battler is her brother, Shannon decides to try and help Jessica(Hence the whole Beatrice "Your sin has nothing to do with me" or whatever was exactly said, since the whole theme is him not remembering jack shit). Kanon wants revenge, and he is in the perfect spot to exact it. Basically what he does to get Battler back to the island is that he called him up and basically said something along the lines like "Kinzo is dead, *click*".

To simplify it again.
Jessica wants Battler to know he is her brother.
Kanon wants revenge on Battler for stealing his whole life away.
Shannon is helping Jessica by trying to have Battler remember his sin(Stealing Kanon's spot).
Kanon calls Battler to the island to have everything set in motion. Neither Shannon nor Jessica know Kanon was the original BATTLER Ushiromiya. Kanon tells Jessica he'll help her by assisting Shannon.

((There's more, field is too long))

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563526
The whole lack of humanhood would be the fact that Kanon is ready to go out on a limb and kill everyone(Funny enough he falls in love with Jessica, but still wants to kill Battler), and that Shannon was conceived by her sister/mother and father/grandfather. The humanhood RONDO ordeal in EP 6 was basically Shannon found out about Kanon and his plans and called him out on it. The whole fight itself was her talking him down and out of the plan, because if he continued his plans to massacre everyone he'd kill both Shannon and George but ultimately keep Jessica alive. Jessica doesn't really Kanon the same way he loves her, since she's too focused on getting her brother to remember. The red involving 18 humans, but seventeen people is being attributed to the fact that what makes a person a person is a name. And that because both he and Battler share the name "Battler Ushiromiya" they're counted as the same person, but not the same human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563504
No, he said she is pure and faithful. Considering what this board can consider pure I don't think it holds water, but I'd say yes, it's effective in mystery. Also, do read that E7 TIP about Jessica's birth and Natsuhi's headaches - "Mother's day" I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563526
>>6563531
Anyway that's the whole entirety of my theory. I personally think it explains quite a bit, but as some other Anons said Shannon made up Kanon in EP 7 so my theory is probably a waste. I noticed a lot of the red in 2-4 and concerning 1-4 try really hard to refer to Kanon as a person(By saying humans AND people).

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563531
>>6563526
You seem to have missed the part about Shannon stealing Jessica's LIFE.
Not a big deal, but if they help each other and Jessica is allthewhile aware that Shannon is the effective head, your theory FAILS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563555
The only thing Jessica knows in particular is that Battler is her brother, and that Shannon and Kanon is helping her. In my theory anyway. There are probably tons of flaws in my theory, I think if it's threshed out a bit though that it might be valid(?).

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563579
Valid, it may be.

The problem I'd have with it is there is no dramatic twist, pointing to the real culprit while a rougoku remix starts playing, figting atop a metalgear and general awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

It's impossible for Yasu to be the culprit because of Willard H. Wright who is named after Willard Huntington Wright also known as S. S. Van Dine. Who came up with the twenty rules for writing detective stories one of which is
>11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.
Now I wonder why would R07 introduce a character named after Knox and decide to canonize Knox's rules in that game but introduce a character named after Van Dine and not canonize his rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563594
Could end in a Kanon vs Battler in the main hall housing Beatrice, lights turned off and with both of them shooting at each other in the dark.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563629
>It's impossible for Yasu to be the culprit because of Willard H. Wright
How ironic that it's Willard himself who says Yasu is the culprit.
You also missed the fact that with Ep7 and 8 red truth became obsolete, and that Shannon is just pretending to be a servant while actually being the head of the house.

[Anonymous No.]

My theory? She isn't the culprit. One or more of the family members just takes advantage of the confusion that she causes (reference Episode 7's Tea Party). Deep down she's just a girl boy who likes playing pretend and gave Battler a love note in the form of a mystery.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563690

This also means that the solution is predictably like Higurashi, where for a Good End, everyone has to work together, set aside their differences and stop the bomb in Rokkenjima from exploding.

This is even foreshadowed in Episode 3's Eva-Beatrice family betrayals, and the story Kinzo told in Episode 7 about the Italians and Japanese killing each other. Gold drives people to do things they normally wouldn't and all of the relatives realize the cat box that is Rokkenjima as the perfect alibi for offing the family members while becoming rich in the process. Eva is sadly a victim of this, and Episode 4's story about Ange's time with her reveals that, indeed, you CAN kill everyone on the island and get away with it.

[Anonymous No.]

Personally theory crafting aside, I'd kill almost everyone if it means I get the gold. I wouldn't do it just off the bat though, when people start dropping dead, now that's when I grab a shotgun and "defend" myself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563704
Except that what happened on the island already happened and can't be changed.

Or you think writing a fiction about how everyone managed to survive and be happy while knowing that in the "real" event they all died a horrible death would be a viable ending?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563717
Then what was the point of Battler challenguing Beatrice?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563734
He's incompetent

[Anonymous No.]

Jessica is Beatrice because they look alike.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563660
The "culprit" as in "the person responsible for the REOCCURRING serial murders on Rokkenjima", not the "culprit" as in "the person that murdered everyone in real life." Remember, Bern asked him to figure out who killed Beatrice, no who killed the family.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563814
That's actually a really nice catch.

Because the culprit in this sense must not be Sumadera's.

[Anonymous No.]

I also have an alternative theory I made after reading the partial patch of EP7.
It is based under the assumption that the son Beatrice the 2nd had, was not one, but were two (and that also explains all the ambiguity about the sex of Yashkaliontrice and why in some games is treated as a boy and in other as a girl: they are two different people).
It works like that:
The first child is Yashkanon (male), which has a story almost identical to the one shown by Wright in EP7 (which mix up some elements of Yashkanon and Yashtrice's story, since he has not understood the full truth and that could be also why Bern kills him at the end (???)). Yashkanon is the boy thrown by the cliff by Natsuhi.
The second child is Liontrice/Yashtrice (female). In Lion's world Yashkanon was born dead and that's why Lion was given to Natsuhi. She did not have the occasion to throw it by the the cliff and so she raised her. On the other hand, in the other kakera, after the falling of Yashkanon she couldn't be given to Natsuhi and then Genji moved him to a different house (maybe Fukuin). She often switched with Yashkanon since they were similar and in fact Kanon was created so that they could work together and Yashkanon could have a little brother working with him (that is why Natsuhi, Jessica and Krauss don't suspect they are one person). Six years ago she got in love with Battler and then the murders happen because of the motives we know in EP7 and in the other EPs.
This is also a way to resolve one of the biggest holes of Yashkaliontrice, i.e. the number of people that would be 16 and not 17.

This could be improved, but I've not worked hard on it since after EP7, Yashkaliontrice is almost confirmed. =\

[Anonymous No.]

Still, what does Ange have to with world peace? Only thing I can think of capable of stiring worldwide trouble is the gold. And even then, why would dead Ange favour world peace.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563856
This one at least makes sense. Zephar and Furfur look like identical twins and they say they were a huge hint to the true nature of Yasu.
The whole twins switching places thing though would be borderline trope abuse after Higurashi and Sion/Mion. It's make R07 hate worse than it already is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563885
Would actually be fun how he pulled it off again right under everyone's noses while making them think it's personalities and what-not.

I agree it doesn't make for great writting, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563856
Well, it does sort of explain why is there so much pressure both to make Kanon separate(in 1-4's red, mostly) and made up(Gohda's Notes) at once

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563856
This would make more sense if Kanon's purpose in the series wasn't to be a support network for Shannon. He's never really seen as an equal in the sense that an actual person would be. All of his actions revolve around Shannon and her potential happiness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563939
>>6563885
Yep.
Compared to the Watanagashi => Meakashi writing, this crossdressing stuff seems really dumb. Meakashi flows perfectly and everything she does makes perfect sense and that is the source of why is that episode so scary yet you don't hate the murderer.
Like this if we get first person storytelling about commiting the murders, then provoking with a letter is fine, but the point she goes overboard is the first murder.
I personally think that stunning Mion was way too overboard a measure and Oryou dying is not a bad luck, but an immediate result of Shion's resolve. That's where shit went wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563987
>Meakashi flows perfectly
I wouldn't say that. I thought Meakashi had some really unfortunate, ridiculous holes when you compared it to Watanagashi. There were scenes where it was obvious they were misleading for the sake of being misleading.

The reason I sympathized with Shion was because it took us through all the murders from her first person perspective, which was really vibrant and well done. In contrast, when we meet Yasu in the real world, it's deliberately from a third person perspective and she outright tells us there's no way she's going to tell us why she did what she did. Yasu might be harder to understand because of this, but that makes her a more challenging character and highlights the entire point of Umineko, imo. And this is from someone who counts Shion as one of their favorite Higurashi characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563856
>Wright in EP7 (which mix up some elements of Yashkanon and Yashtrice's story, since he has not understood the full truth and that could be also why Bern kills him at the end (???))

Nope.

[Anonymous No.]

I just have a small technical question: Does the Umineko font have a slight black beveling on the bottom, or is that just my imagination?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6563690
>My theory? She isn't the culprit. One or more of the family members just takes advantage of the confusion that she causes (reference Episode 7's Tea Party). Deep down she's just a girl boy who likes playing pretend and gave Battler a love note in the form of a mystery.

Agreed. Yasu is the culprit of the fictional mystery she wrote and would have set up for Battler. To put it another way, "Yasu is the culprit" is the answer Yasu wanted Battler/her readers to reach, so they could understand her motive and her heart. But it's pretty obvious that it was meant to be a game - the game just went horribly, horribly wrong.