/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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Anonymous Mon May 19 02:53:25 2008 No.646211 [Reply] [Original]

after playing UBW, i would like to ask if Shirou gets any spd, strength etc increase that rivals a Servant in UBW? I find it unbelievable that he can outfight Gil in the marble. The reason i read from the game is that Shirou has the swords ready at his disposal while Gil have to get them out of his Gob. However, Shirou is still fighting a full powered Gil. He even have trouble against a really underpowered Archer. It doesnt matter if Gil is not really a wielder of the noble phantasms, he is a Servant with abilities that pisses all over Shirou.
What the fuck nasu?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 02:54:45 2008 No.646218 >>646211 Time paradox. That's all you need to know.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 02:55:23 2008 No.646221 Gil screws around a lot.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 02:56:10 2008 No.646228 >>646221 This, Gil always dies because he is too arrogant to use Ea right away, which is pretty retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 02:57:04 2008 No.646235 Because shitty plot. That's all you need to know.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 02:59:28 2008 No.646241 Gil breaks down when he's caught off-guard. If he were ever to fight at 100%, completely focused, he'd be the strongest servant, but he prefers to just scrape by since it's enough dominate in most battles.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:02:49 2008 No.646263 >>646211 Plothole, like the whole FSN itself. Tsukihime >>> FSN.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:04:23 2008 No.646271 >>646263 In b4 shitstorm HERE WE GOOOO!!!

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:04:58 2008 No.646275 >>646241 Much like most of us in school then....

Anonymous Mon May 19 03:05:42 2008 No.646279

What makes Tsukihime better than FSN is the atsmosphere, you can feel the danger , the drama, the mindfuck.The music does a better job to add to the atmosphere than FSN.The characters interactions are so superior to the character interactions of FSN that it hurts,and the slice of life segments and Shirou's Pov are fucking annoying.FSN plot is too forced at times, some times they lead to plot holes,weak plot or unexplainable developments.Tsukihime's plot flows better, it's simple and credible..
Tsukihime's plot is also more mature, each resolution have more weight to them 1) Arc and Shiki didn't end up in good terms in Ciel's True End, 2) After every single of the Far Side of the Moon routes, Arc and Ciel will keep hunting Roa, 3) Akiha ends up as a doll in one ending, 4) Akiha and Kohaku die in another end, 5) Hisui's Good End wasn't precisely happy. In F/sn, only 2 characters couldn't be saved: 1) Ilya in UBW, 2) Saber and Ilya in HF.
Shirou never actually shows his resolve when it comes to deal with people who are prepared to kill,and the story does not have serious and mature Masters - aside from Zōken-and the only time Shirou had to confront one of his friends, was in HF against Black Saber. Shiki, on the other hand, had to fight Arc, Ciel, Akiha, and Satsuki at some point - there's also the point when he realises all what Kohaku has been doing.
FSN is just too light and aimed at teenagers. That why the dark and cold as ice Tsukihime is superior.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:06:06 2008 No.646281 This is even weirder if you remember that during Fate route Gil kicked Saber's ass in close combat taking weapon one at a time.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:06:59 2008 No.646284 A servant's D ranked stat is far beyond human abilities. Plothole indeed.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:08:46 2008 No.646289 Fucking nasu. All there is to it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:09:26 2008 No.646294 File: 102 KB, 506x516, 1211166566015.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] FSN is shit right?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:10:13 2008 No.646300 File: 70 KB, 889x445, 1211166613032.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>646294

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:11:16 2008 No.646306 FSN, the Ciel of Type Moon.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:12:04 2008 No.646307 >>646306 So FSN is awesome then?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:12:25 2008 No.646309 >>646306 It gets fucked in the ass? By who, Nasu?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:13:15 2008 No.646316 >>646211 >out of his Gob That made me imagine Gil coughing up swords.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:13:19 2008 No.646317 >>646306 No, because at least manga Ciel is likeable, and not everyone hates Ciel.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:13:32 2008 No.646318 >>646307 Its awesome when you first look at it, then as you go deeper, it would turn out to be shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:13:42 2008 No.646320 >>646316 No that would be Shirou. His body is a sword, after all.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:14:24 2008 No.646321 >>646320 MOAR LIKE SHITTY SWORDS AMRITE?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:15:05 2008 No.646324 File: 8 KB, 148x150, 1211166905327.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>646321 No, you aren't right at all. Infact, you're completely off.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:16:07 2008 No.646331 The reality marble probably has something to do with it, we don't really know if it effects the opponents abilities or what.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:18:59 2008 No.646349 >>646331 Plothole, faggot. Reality Marbles only do one thing. In Shirou's case, its making swords not slow people inside it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:19:58 2008 No.646351 >>646349 it also gave him instant access to those swords, access as fast or faster than the speed at which Gilgamesh could pull his out of GoB. That's sorta the only thing, but it comes with perks.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:20:30 2008 No.646357 >>646211 He fucked Rin, thats like the biggest powerup you can get.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:20:54 2008 No.646358 i smell shiiiiiiiit

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:22:35 2008 No.646367 >>646351 That doesnt change the fact that Shirou was overpowering a Servant in physical combat. If there was a TM character who would be affected by a deployement of a RM, it would be Arc.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:24:31 2008 No.646381 i thought it was pretty well explained in the game. you must have skipped a couple of pages or something

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:26:17 2008 No.646392 >>646381 It wasnt explained.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:28:21 2008 No.646400 >>646367 he said in the game that he was faster/stronger inside the marble. If I remember correctly. Because Gilgamesh was shitting bricks about being forced back by a mongrel and then Shirou had his inner monologue about how it happened.

Anonymous Mon May 19 03:28:59 2008 No.646407

>>646381
You just ignored some things, Gilgamesh strengh should be far greater than Shirou's, Gilgamesh speed should be far greater than Shirou's, Gil CAN use pretty well swords is close combat, he proved it during Fate by beating Saber.
But he is beaten by a human that randomly wields swords, Ok.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:29:40 2008 No.646410 one of archer's arms are enough to defeat Gil cause it's so full of GAR

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:29:41 2008 No.646412 >>646400 Still doesnt explain this. >>646284

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:31:14 2008 No.646416 >>646410 >one of archer's arms are enough to defeat Gil cause it's so full of Plotholes. Fix'd. Also, Shirou didnt use any of Archer's arm in UBW faggot.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:31:36 2008 No.646418 >>646416 OH SHIT

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:31:40 2008 No.646420 >>646400 It just said he was pulling out the same weapon at a faster rate than Gil. It didn't say anything about the RM making him any stronger.

Anonymous Mon May 19 03:32:11 2008 No.646424

>>646400
>>646381

You just ignored some things, Gilgamesh's strengh should be far greater than Shirou's, Gilgamesh's speed should be far greater than Shirou's, Gil CAN use pretty well swords in close combat, he proved it during Fate by beating Saber.
But he is beaten by a human that randomly wields swords. i call bullshit.

Anonymous Mon May 19 03:33:15 2008 No.646427

>>646407
A human who gained alot of experience through the fight with Archer, and who was inside a reality marble which put him at an advantage. Gil was just caught off guard and didn't pull out Ea before he realized the situation he was in. All of his Weapons from GOB were being destroyed, all the while a raging Shirou attacked him at close range. He was shitting brix.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:34:23 2008 No.646430 >>646427 Still doesnt explain how he can overpower a Servant in physical combat.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 03:35:22 2008 No.646433 Retreating? From a substandard magus? A good-for-nothing Faker? A worthless human being that is nowhere near a Servant? Who do you think Gilgamesh is? He's the goddamn King of Heroes, bitch.

Anonymous Mon May 19 03:36:15 2008 No.646436

>>646420
I think the line was "but I'm faster here."

of course I haven't read the original japanese text so I dunno if that's entirely accurate.

It's entirely possible to beat someone just by being faster than them, even if they're many times stronger than you.

Not to mention that tracing gives you the ability to use the weapon efficiently.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 03:37:26 2008 No.646444 >>646430 Shirou's UBW not only gives him weapons, but also lets him borrow the skill of the weapon's user. How do you think he was able to mimic Archer's style so quickly?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:38:02 2008 No.646449 >>646444 Because he's Archer? Only HF Shirou has the ability to use the NP's power. UBW Shirou was all about making tons of swords.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:38:29 2008 No.646447 >>646444 Because he is Archer.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:38:39 2008 No.646448 >>646436 AHAHAHA no, Shirou just weilds the swords randomly, anf the RM does not give any speed to Shirou.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:41:36 2008 No.646458 >>646444 he wasn't borrowing any skills, the game itself says that.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:42:16 2008 No.646461 >>646436 Shirou was never faster than Gil, or any servant. He's as fast as normal humans. Maybe above normal humans but still within the human limitation.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 03:43:26 2008 No.646469 >>646449 Pay attention to Shirou's tracing procedure sometime. Weapons experience is a key component to building his swords.

Anonymous Mon May 19 03:45:32 2008 No.646484

>>646448
he is able to pull them to him instantly, and the ability that makes them comes with the ability to fight with them. Which means he's attacking skillfully with noble phantasms barely under the strength that Gilgamesh is using, except the difference between Gilgamesh and Shirou is that Gilgamesh can't actually use the weapons, he just owns them. That's the weakness that puts them on at least slightly equal footing.

The only things Gilgamesh can actually use are Ea and the chain of heaven, the rest he has to rely on a substandard fighting ability.

And, Shirou was able to at least hold his own for a small period of time against Kuzuki (without the backing of Avalon), who beat the everliving shit out of Seiba.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:45:57 2008 No.646489 >>646469 And? That still doesnt change the fact that the whole Gil vs Shirou is a one big plothole.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:46:07 2008 No.646491 >>646469 Yeah that's all nice and well. but the game says that he was weilding the swords without a particular skill, just like Gil.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:47:16 2008 No.646499 >>646484 And Gil beat the shit out of Saber in close combat. Your point?

Anonymous Mon May 19 03:47:16 2008 No.646501

Hey guize, Gilgamesh didn't know how to use any of his weapons except for Ea and Enkidu. For all of his Noble Phantasms in store, he didn't know how to make use of any of them as melee weapons, for the most part, at least not on any level like Lancer or Saber.

Not to say he's an amateur, but it's not like he's Assassin. His own technique is unimpressive and predictable, if still Servant level.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:48:20 2008 No.646505 >>646499 >And Gil beat the shit out of Saber in close combat. When, exactly, did that happen? I don't recall that EVER happening. Gilgamesh runs the fuck back when Saber pops up in UBW at the end.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:48:40 2008 No.646507 >>646501 > if still Servant level There's the problem.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:48:49 2008 No.646509 >>646491 it also says he could get the swords just as fast or faster than Gilgamesh, who is one of the shittiest melee servants in any grail war next to Caster.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:49:08 2008 No.646511 >>646505 Fate route.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:50:09 2008 No.646520 >>646484 AHAHAAH NO, read the game, Shirou and Gil were both fighting weilding swords without skills. besides, Gil should be way stronger, a hit from a servant, even if you block it, should numb you.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:50:18 2008 No.646521 >>646509 Yeah but Gil is still a servant. Servants >>> Humans

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 03:50:53 2008 No.646524 >>646511 The problem is that Saber was trying to melee Gilgamesh without nullifying GoB. Shirou had no such problem.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:51:14 2008 No.646528 >>646501 But he beat the shit out of Saber in close combat with swords.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:51:30 2008 No.646531 >>646501 Which part of "beating the shit out of Saber" didn't you fag understand?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:52:56 2008 No.646538 >>646524 It was the exactly same situation, saber was close to him trying to hit gil, he takes weapons one at a time and beats her.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:52:56 2008 No.646539 >>646511 that was totally different, because in fate gilgamesh had that golden armor he was just plainclothes in ubw so he wasn't as good kind of like megaman

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:53:12 2008 No.646541 >>646524 Gil didnt use Sword Spam in the bridge fight. Besides, He blocks Saber's attacks w/ mana burst casually unlike Lancer who gets blown away.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:53:21 2008 No.646542 >>646539 what?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:54:42 2008 No.646547 >>646539 that makes perfect sense actually

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:54:43 2008 No.646548 Gil > Saber in close combat. Shirou > Gil in close combat. Shirou > Saber in close combat?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:56:22 2008 No.646555 >>646547 consider this plothole filled.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:56:46 2008 No.646557 There is only one true answer to this. Plothole.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 03:56:50 2008 No.646558 >>646520 >AHAHAAH NO, read the game, Shirou and Gil were both fighting weilding swords without skills. I did, and nothing in that battle suggested anything of the sort.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:56:52 2008 No.646559 Ciel is the Rock Lee of Type Moon.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:57:25 2008 No.646562 >>646548 That syllogism totally doesn't work lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:58:15 2008 No.646564 >>646558 You are liying then, or are an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:58:55 2008 No.646567 >>646564 He's in denial.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 03:59:39 2008 No.646573 >>646539 he has all the weapons of the robot masters (servants) and camped the same stage for energy tanks(childerens souls).

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:00:06 2008 No.646577 >>646538 It's been stated in the Gilgamesh vs Shirou battle that Shirou could take out his swords faster than Gilgamesh could and nullify whatever weapon he was going to take out. Saber didn't have anything to nullify GoB with.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:00:38 2008 No.646579 >>646564 Proof belongs to you, since you're the one that suggested it.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:01:31 2008 No.646583 >>646564 The burden of proof belongs to you, since you're the one that suggested something like that existed.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:02:22 2008 No.646591 >>646577 That still doesnt explain how a mere human could overpower a Servant who had a B ranked STR.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:02:30 2008 No.646593 >>646577 So with all her speed, she couldn't hit Gil before he takes a weapon, but Shirou could?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:03:44 2008 No.646600 File: 65 KB, 810x648, 1211169824775.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What the fuck were you reading? Gil never gets a hit in in melee.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:04:55 2008 No.646604 >>646593 Not only that, Gil blocks Saber's tremendous slashs like nothingh,but have troubles blocking Shirou's weak slashs.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:05:11 2008 No.646608 >>646600 So chopping off an arm doesnt count as getting hit in melee?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:05:12 2008 No.646610 The main lesson of the Nasuverse is "don't just fuck around because you're a godlike being facing a mere human, because he might be the protagonist." That and "don't rape the maids."

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:06:33 2008 No.646618 File: 85 KB, 810x648, 1211169993057.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:06:43 2008 No.646620 >>646610 OBJECTION! You can rape Kohaku during Hisui's route.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:08:21 2008 No.646628 >>646604 Gilgamesh wasn't wearing his armor which is seemingly insanely strong, able to take several direct blows from Excalibur and UBW sword rain nullifies GoB in that fight.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:08:33 2008 No.646629 >>646593 Seiba has the same agility ranking as Gilgamesh, which is not to mention that she was fighting with severely diminished capacities

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:08:33 2008 No.646630 >>646618 So he can make weapons appear from behind him and block attacks, wonder why he didn't do that.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:08:36 2008 No.646633 So as I pray, Unlimited Plothole Works!

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:08:56 2008 No.646637 Hey, and either way she can't tell anyone!

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:10:10 2008 No.646640 >>646629 >severely diminished capacities She was Full charged by Shirou before the fight. Hence, she could spam Excalibur.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:10:14 2008 No.646641 File: 70 KB, 810x648, 1211170214515.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>646630 either GoB was too busy dealing with swords raining down in ubw or Gil wasn't thinkng about defense at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:10:19 2008 No.646642 >>646629 Gil has rank C. Seiba B. Shirou should have F minus.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:10:25 2008 No.646643 Wow. People sure like to discuss a VN that is SO shitty.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:11:13 2008 No.646648 >>646618 it would appear that GoB was the problem in that fight. It doesn't really look like the fight was melee either. Then again it could be a mistranslation or an awkward phrase.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:13:15 2008 No.646656 >>646643 Welcome to the INTERNET. I hope you enjoy your stay.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:13:20 2008 No.646657 >>646648 Gil knows that Saber can hurt him badly if she got a clean hit, that is why he wears his armor and has GoB protecting him. He isn't wearing his armor at all in UBW probably because he only faces Shirou and doesn't think Shirou could hurt him.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:14:17 2008 No.646661 >>646643 I am the hole of my plot.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:14:39 2008 No.646664 >>646656 The presence of a contradiction is not debunked by the circumstances of said contradiction.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:14:42 2008 No.646665 I AM THE HOLE OF MY PLOT

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:15:16 2008 No.646669 >>646657 Gil fought Berserker, whose one slash could end his life, in his casual clothes. Gil was also expecting to fight Saber in the end and yet still didnt equip his armor.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:15:31 2008 No.646670 File: 491 KB, 810x661, 1211170531283.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>646642

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:16:19 2008 No.646673 >>646665 Contradiction is my body and Unanswered questions is my blood.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:16:27 2008 No.646674 File: 540 KB, 810x661, 1211170587921.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>646670

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:17:49 2008 No.646680 >>646673 Yet as I constantly bitch about something I will never give evidence.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:17:54 2008 No.646683 >>646670 yeah, agility C. post saber's agility. and i am sure that with his B strenght he should destroy Shirou's hands.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:17:56 2008 No.646684 >>646669 Gil also used (had to) the chain, and Berserker had to fight by only moving forward due to Ilya being behind him. Had it been a "fair" fight it probably would have ended differently.

Anonymous Mon May 19 04:18:53 2008 No.646689

>>646669
He was pretty confident that berserker wouldn't reach him. His chain and all. He can also armor up like Saber so he probably would have put it on if Saber helped Shirou fight. Then there is the question of why he didn't armor up in the reality marble.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:19:27 2008 No.646690 >>646689 cough....shitty plot...cough

>>	sage sage Mon May 19 04:19:40 2008 No.646691 sage

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:20:30 2008 No.646692 >>646691 Awesome.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:20:30 2008 No.646693 >>646690 Gilgamesh forced Berserker to be a meatshield to protect Ilya... cough.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:20:36 2008 No.646694 >>646690 cough... shitty post.... cough

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:21:20 2008 No.646696 >>646693 He can still armor up inside UBW but he didnt. Certainly a fine example of a plothole.

Anonymous Mon May 19 04:21:32 2008 No.646697

>>646689
he started getting panicky towards the end, that's why he used the chain.

The absolute last thing he wants is to fight someone in purely hand to hand combat.

Also, Caster has the same agility as Gilgamesh and Seiba and got the shit beat out of her by Rin.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:21:54 2008 No.646699 >>646694 Butthurt FSN fag.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:21:59 2008 No.646700 >>646696 Why would he need to? Berserker can't move.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:22:27 2008 No.646701 >>646699 Butthurt Tsukihimefag.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:22:55 2008 No.646702 File: 19 KB, 180x250, 1211170975752.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>646689 AMP IT UP!

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:23:00 2008 No.646708 >>646704 Which you have yet to prove exists, by the way.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:23:04 2008 No.646703 >>646696 instead of getting his armor he goes for ea.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:23:13 2008 No.646704 >>646701 There's nothing for me to be butthurt about since this thread is all about FSN's plothole.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:23:19 2008 No.646705 >>646696 Not really, Gilgamesh is cocky, extremely cocky. Cocky enough to vastly underestimate his opponent until it's far too late. Plotholes are things that can't be explained by character personalities or attitudes.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:24:17 2008 No.646710 >>646700 were talking about why he didn't armor inside the RM.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:24:27 2008 No.646711 >>646705 Then getting overpowered in physical combat by a human is a plothole.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:24:27 2008 No.646712 >>646704 And I mindlessly flames you who mindlessly flamed me. That makes us even Steven.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:24:47 2008 No.646714 >>646703 which is valid enough of a move to negate the crap about the armor. who needs armor when your opponent is about to be disintegrated?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:25:18 2008 No.646717 >>646712 Lol butthurt FSN fag.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:25:53 2008 No.646718 >>646708 Read the OP. Gilgamesh with all his servants stats was beaten by a weak slow human.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:25:54 2008 No.646719 >>646717 lol shitty troll.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:27:06 2008 No.646721 >CHECK THIS OUT GUISE! http://rancid.outwar.com/page/44127

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:27:25 2008 No.646722 >>646719 Reply as you will, it only shows you being butthurt about FSN.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:28:01 2008 No.646729 You don't understand anything, servants are weak, Shirou has C agility, just like Gil, so he was able to match him. And who cares about Gil's B strenght?.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:28:03 2008 No.646723 File: 229 KB, 400x300, 080224_1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] this is now a lol thread

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:28:27 2008 No.646724 >>646722 And... why exactly am I butthurt? For point out when somebody makes a stupid post? I have no problem with valid arguments against F/SN but don't sound like a flaming retard about it.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:28:30 2008 No.646725 >>646718 A weak slow human? Shirou was moving fast enough on his early tracings to block Souchirou's attacks, and that guy was the one that beat Saber.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:28:50 2008 No.646728 >>646723 No, this is a FSN Plothole thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:29:30 2008 No.646730 >>646724 Cry moar.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:29:48 2008 No.646733 FSN SUX

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:30:11 2008 No.646735 >>646730 lol shitty troll.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:30:18 2008 No.646736 >>646728 >was*

Anonymous Mon May 19 04:30:35 2008 No.646738

>>646711
not really, Gilgamesh is a pathetic excuse for a Servant when it comes to anything about hand to hand combat. His combat skills are barely better than Caster.

That's why he uses GoB, Ea and Enuma Elish to beat people, he *can't* beat them in hand to hand combat, because he has never needed to. That's why he's Archer class instead of Seiba or Lancer.

Again, Caster, who has the same agility as Gilgamesh, got her ass handed to her by Rin.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:31:01 2008 No.646745 >>646725 But in that fight the swords moved by themselves, and blocking that attacks hurted him. Against Gil he was moving the swords, not using any skills, and enduring Gil's B strenght.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:31:13 2008 No.646741 >>646725 Not fast enough to be ranked as anywhere near Servant level. And Souchirou was buffed by Caster herself. Shirou didnt reinforce his body. In other words, plothole.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:32:24 2008 No.646747 >>646738 Gil beat the shit out of Saber. In close combat.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:33:24 2008 No.646751 >CHECK THIS OUT GUISE! http://rancid.outwar.com/page/4939

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:34:05 2008 No.646753 File: 14 KB, 300x330, 1211171645481.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>646741 If Shirou was able to block Souchirou's attacks while he was buffed, then shouldn't that prove the opposite of what you're trying to pull here?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:34:11 2008 No.646755 MY WHOLE LIFE WAS A PLOTHOLE.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:34:22 2008 No.646756 >>646735 Cry moar butthurt FSN fag.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:35:14 2008 No.646759 >>646756 lol shitty troll

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:35:43 2008 No.646761 shitty thread

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:36:12 2008 No.646763 >>646747 He used GoB exclusively, read the screencaps of that fight posted in the thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:36:38 2008 No.646765 >>646753 Souchirou was aiming for Kansho and Bakuya in the first place. Still, plothole.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:36:41 2008 No.646766 File: 14 KB, 244x192, 1211171801775.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This thread ended within the first 3 replies. Why is it still going?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:37:03 2008 No.646771 >>646766 FSN is filled with Plotholes, what did you expect?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:37:05 2008 No.646768 >>646763 Bridge fight.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:38:37 2008 No.646774 >>646771 lol shitty troll

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:39:17 2008 No.646777 >>646774 Butthurt FSNfag is butthurt.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:39:27 2008 No.646778 >>646768 The Bridge Fight was basically Saber beating the crap out of Gil's armor until he surprises her with a strike from a weapon in his GoB.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:39:28 2008 No.646779 >>646774 Not really a troll, just stating the truth.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:39:45 2008 No.646780 >>646774 Shut the fuck up faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:40:44 2008 No.646783 >>646778 That still counts as beating her in "Close" combat.

Anonymous Mon May 19 04:41:03 2008 No.646788

>>646779

no more truth then any potholes in Tsukihime.

And yes they do exist. Such as the fact that Shiki

a) Magically cares about the fact Sacchin is missing in the farside routes whereas Near side route Shiki doesn't give a shit.

b) Shiki doesn't freak out and kill Arc in the Far side route when he sees her.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:43:04 2008 No.646792 >>646783 Saber was surprised by Gil's weapons and was beaten because of it. Shirou understood the nature of the Gates of Babylon and had a counter. Two different cases.

>>	Shirou !lORCIa01Kk Mon May 19 04:43:05 2008 No.646793 >>646780 >>646777 lol shitty trolls

Anonymous Mon May 19 04:44:03 2008 No.646798

>>646763
he pulls out a few swords and a scythe at the park, one sword is magically enchanted for "vengeance" and deflects Saber's attack, she dodges the next sword aswell, but it is enchanted to freeze the space around it, so Saber is covered in ice, then he pulls out a scythe that ignores Sabers magical armor. His weapons are the danger not his skills, faggots.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:44:15 2008 No.646800 >>646792 Same case with Souchirou. Saber was suprised by the odd fighting style.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:44:19 2008 No.646802 >>646788 In the Far side he sees Sacchin while he was following Arc. He does not giving a shit about her during the near sides is more like forced plot.not holes like fsn.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:45:36 2008 No.646811 >>646802 The only plothole that's being discussed here is the idea that Gilgamesh didn't wear his armor in the battle against Shirou. How is that not forced plot?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:46:33 2008 No.646814 >>646798 The good side about the Archer class.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:46:47 2008 No.646817 >>646811 Gil with all his Servant stats was overpowered by a mere human.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:48:16 2008 No.646827 >>646817 And an insanely powerful vampire with the power of the world at her back was beaten by a kid with a knife. This is NASUVERSE people.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:48:43 2008 No.646830 >>646814 Yes, that is the point of the Archer class, they may not be the best at actual fighting, but their other abilities and noble phantasms, which they usually have more then other classes, close that gap.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:49:34 2008 No.646835 >>646811 The weak fsn plot includes forced plot and plot holes. A human matching a servant's skills. Gil not using his armor, or any weapon with a skill,like he does against Saber,or using his GoB in close combat.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:50:28 2008 No.646838 >>646835 he does not out skill Saber at all in melee, the ailities of his numerous weapons pressure the opponent not his ability to swing it.

Anonymous Mon May 19 04:51:16 2008 No.646845

>>646835

>A human matching a servant's skills. Gil not using his armor, or any weapon with a skill,like he does against Saber,or using his GoB in close combat.

Which are all about as much forced plot at the last.

Example: Ceil's battle gear in her route doesn't appear at all in the Arc route despite the fact she's trailing Shiki to fight Roa.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:51:17 2008 No.646846 >>646827 >was beaten by a kid with a knife Not beaten but killed. Note the difference.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:52:21 2008 No.646859 >>646827 Shiki killed Arc by a surprise attack.At least when they fought Arc kicked Shiki's ass, same with Ciel, she kicked his ass. A human beaten a servant tha's different.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:52:50 2008 No.646864 >>646846 Doesn't mean a damn thing. If Arc is the insanely powerful entity she's made out to be she should easily be able to react, respond or move fast enough to avoid the attacks of a kid who physically should be the same as Shirou.

insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:53:33 2008 No.646874

>>646835
>A human matching a servant's skills.
Souchirou and Rin say hi.

>Gil not using his armor
Gil is insulted by the very notion that he would have to go all out against a kid like Shirou.

>any weapon with a skill
Guess who also has those weapons?

>his GoB in close combat.
See previous answer.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:54:12 2008 No.646881 >>646845 the plot hole is that Gil has stats that that pisses all over Shirou.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:54:48 2008 No.646887 >>646864 Yes it does. Situations > Power levels. Shiki never fought head on and when he did, he got his ass handed to him. Unlike Shirou who fought a servant head on and won.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:55:44 2008 No.646899 >>646859 Gilgamesh is kicking Shirou's ass in the beginning of the fight, enjoying himself even . He doesn't adapt when Shirou powers up and uses his reality marble. That costs him.

Anonymous Mon May 19 04:56:07 2008 No.646903

>>646859

And this means anything in the realm of the imaginative?

Seriously dude it's called creative license. Nasu gives a good interpretation of events that unfold and leave it to readers to figure out on their own.

Rin says that projection magic is the bane of Gates of Babylon and that her Archer could beat Gil that's why he was "afraid".

Shirou was Archer.

Shirou activates his reality marble which is about as HAX and PLOT DEVICE as anything else in the Nasuverse.

Shirou defeats Gilgamesh, a servant who's only attribute is that he has the power of an infinite number of weapons at his beck and call that let him utilize each of their unique powers.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:57:27 2008 No.646915 >>646899 It just add to the forced and holed plot. he was supposed to be badly injured.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:57:50 2008 No.646918 >>646887 Technically he didn't "win" he just managed to stalemate Gil and drive him back enough then let the black hole take him.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:57:53 2008 No.646921 >>646903 And yet they drill it onto the readers that Humans have no way of defeating Servants. Plothole indeed.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:58:23 2008 No.646931 >>646915 Saber is in existence and he has avalon inside him. Avalon is the ultimate plot armor.

insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 04:58:28 2008 No.646932

>>646881
According to Nasu, an average Servant is one who has stats of rank B. Gilgamesh has an agility stat of rank C, which meant he was below average in that scale.

You're so used to seeing extremely agile fighters like Berserker, Saber, Assassin, and Lancer that you don't really understand that there is a huge gap between them and the rest of the cast.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:58:50 2008 No.646935 >>646903 No, gil has not human skills. he should have shitty stats to be believable.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:59:22 2008 No.646938 >>646887 power levels mean everything remember Goku and Vegeta?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:59:39 2008 No.646940 >>646921 So exceptions to rules show up? Shirou IS revealed to be a servant in UBW. At least an immature one.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:59:39 2008 No.646941 >>646932 The plothole still remains. Even a D rank is way beyond human abilities.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 04:59:52 2008 No.646942 >>646932 So a normal human can match up a servant's C rank? awesome.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:00:36 2008 No.646948 >>646940 No. Shirou's future self IS a servant. Not Shirou himself.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:01:01 2008 No.646962 >>646942 Normal human? No. Exceptional athlete? Maybe.

insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 05:01:01 2008 No.646963

>>646942
What do you mean, Shirou was a normal human?

He's been able to block Lancer's attacks in the beginning, even before he learned how to trace swords. He also was able to defend himself against Souchirou, who was able to overtake Saber.

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:01:19 2008 No.646954

>>646941

Where is that said?

Doesn't that interview say that a servant is like a "warrior" in that it's basically a human who's reached a great level in something?

A guy can be super strong but slow. What makes servants awesome 1337 HAXXORZ is their Noble Phantasms.

To which Shirou has an infinite number...

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:01:56 2008 No.646961 Why is Gilgamesh chaotic good? He seemed pretty evil to me, wanting to rape Saber and all.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:03:36 2008 No.646979 >>646954 See Archer's stats. That is the stats of someone who reinforced himself to an extreme level + years of training + Contract to the World. How can a mere human compete with that?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:04:40 2008 No.646985 I am the hole of my plot. Forced plot is my body and Unanswered questions is my blood. i have contradicted over a thousand plot statements. my whole life was a PLOTHOLE

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:05:04 2008 No.646988 >>646963 And Archer easily beat Soichirou.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 05:06:23 2008 No.646995 >>646988 Obviously, since at that point Caster was, you know, dead.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:06:47 2008 No.647001 >>646963 >Shirou was a normal human? Why yes. The only abnormal about Shirou was his way of thinking.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:07:07 2008 No.647003 >>646962 What would be Shiki's stats then? his physical skills are way higher than Shirou's. Shiki would be an awesome servant with B agi

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:07:54 2008 No.647009 The only reason why Shirou survive Lancer is, main character plot armor.

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:08:07 2008 No.647011

>>646979

Depends on "mere human".

When I read these sort of novels I like to think of the protagonists as being the HEROES they have the potential to grow into something truly fantastic. Shirou, to me, has never been a "human" in the normal sense of the word.

He's a magus, however poor, he has trained his body and soul to unimaginable amounts and made himself at least above human levels of a fighter.

And this can work too cause it's a crazy and insane universe he lives in. Nasu never once broke his own cannon just made some exceptions to it so his protagonist could evolve into the badass he is. It's not Tsukihime but F/SN was never Tsukihime v 2.0

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:09:03 2008 No.647016 HEY GUYS WHY DOES GILGAMESH BOTH LIKE AND DISLIKE HIMSELF IN HIS STATUS MENU?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:09:36 2008 No.647019 >>647003 >his physical skills are way higher than Shirou's. Eh?

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 05:09:36 2008 No.647020 >>647009 Well, that explains why you're so insistent on claiming that FSN is filled with plot holes.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:10:08 2008 No.647026 >>647016 He's tsundere for himself.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:10:26 2008 No.647028 >>647003 a light breeze would kill him if he has his glasses on

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:10:48 2008 No.647031 >>647019 Shirou trains his body everyday, Shiki is genetically fit.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:11:20 2008 No.647037 >>647020 Actually, no. FSN is filled with plotholes, you're just in denial.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:14:26 2008 No.647059 >>647019 he can run through fucking walls and ceilings, and move faster than the human eye can follow.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:15:11 2008 No.647063 >>647059 And you people bitch about SHIROU being able to fight Gilgamesh? Lulz

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:16:38 2008 No.647074 This thead at least was useful to prove that FSN has a shitty, forced plot. i am not too sure about being plot holes.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:17:19 2008 No.647077 >>647074 >FSN has a shitty, forced plot. So does Tsukihime.

insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 05:17:39 2008 No.647081

To sum everything up:

Whenever Shirou uses a sword, he is able to borrow the skills and the experience of that sword. Basically, the better he gets at tracing, the better he becomes at faking the ability of the weapon's user.

And as Assassin proves, sheer power isn't everything. Technique is also important, which Gilgamesh doesn't really use.

Basically, Shirou just pummeled Gilgamesh with muscle memory. The End.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:17:44 2008 No.647082 >>647074 Even from the point of view of someone who prefers Tsukihime... Uh... Not really.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:18:05 2008 No.647084 >>647063 If the game hypes SERVANTS ARE THE HAXOOOR SUPERHUMANS WITH INCREDIBLE SKILLS, then some humans step and beat them, that is shitty plot.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:18:41 2008 No.647088 >>647077 So you accept that FSN has a shitty forced plot?

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:18:44 2008 No.647089
File: 32 KB, 377x580, 1211174324403.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Shirou never onces takes an attack from Gilgamesh. He is always one step ahead, the reality marble allows him to create and match each sword as Gilgamesh pulls them out, and he strikes before Gilgamesh, forcing Gilgamesh to destroy the weapon with his own.

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:18:54 2008 No.647090

Guys, it's a plot hole, plain and simple. You can use the numerous, numerous prose examples in Tsukihime: humans have the potential to match demons, but they're still friggin humans. I think OP is more boggled that Shirou fought and WON with hardly a mark on him as opposed to Shirou overpowering Gil. In truth, HF is the better example to what it means to be a human fighting against the supernatural in Nasuverse (ie: Death).

Shit, for all the props people give Shiki and his hax, they continually overlook that by the time he stood up to take down Nero, he was officially on a suicide run--holes inside him and ripped flesh and everything.

UBW was unbalanced. That's the whole point.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:19:26 2008 No.647095 >>647081 So he has the Sword of Truth?

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 05:20:27 2008 No.647102 >>647090 Not really. As >>647090 stated, Shirou was always ahead of Gilgamesh, countering his weapon before he even has a chance to take it out.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:20:54 2008 No.647105 >>647084 No that is making exceptions. Just cause most elephants can trample humans doesn't mean you can't find a weakly and sick Elephant then get a super strong trained athlete to fight it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:21:07 2008 No.647107 >>647003 Shiki's also a psychic-class demon hunter. People overlook that--he's not a normal human by any definition, even without the eye hax.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:21:17 2008 No.647109 >>647081 No. the game tells that both of them were weilding the swords randomly, besides, WHAT MEMORIES? THE SWORDS BELONG TO GIL,ONLY HE USED THEM BEFORE, HE WOULD BE USING GIL'S SKILLS. plot hole.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:21:35 2008 No.647112 >>647088 No more than any of Nasu's work.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:21:42 2008 No.647114 UBW was awesome; anyone who believes otherwise has no business playing FS/N.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:23:13 2008 No.647128 >>647109 >the game tells that both of them were weilding the swords randomly They were PULLING swords randomly. Drawing swords = wielding them. Side's it was probably a "one hit get broken" deal for most of them.

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:25:23 2008 No.647138

>>647109
No, those swords became Noble Phantasm's because they were used by other people. The game even said this:
The vault had good weapons. People used good weapons. People became famous. Weapons became famous. Famous weapons became enchanted.
The end.
Following that logic, because the vault contained Gae Bolg, then no-one but Gil used Gae Bolg.

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:28:02 2008 No.647163

>>647109
Gil never used them, really. It was enough to lock them up in his storehouse to look pretty.

The skills that come from tracing are the skills from the hero most known for them. If he traced Lancer's spear he would have lancer's skills, even though the original idea for that weapon was contained in the GoB.

The GoB is a storehouse. The only weapon he has in there that he can actually wield to any potential is Ea or Enuma Elish.

Hence why he didn't just pull out gay bulge and stab Shirou through the heart, or pull out Excalibur's original and use it's power.

He can't use those weapons, as a King he just deploys them.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:29:54 2008 No.647170 >>647011 Melty Blood says what? Nasu's broken his shit plenty of times. Hell, he broke it down (Tsukihime) because his original wasn't as popular (Witch's Holy Night, Garden of Sinners).

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:33:33 2008 No.647193

>>647170
What do you mean about Melty Blood? If you're talking about how everyone has more power than they should, that is explained by Tatari, which is why he was used in the game. It allowed them to create a fighting game with Tsukihime characters that wasn't broken because a certain character must be stronger than the other.

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:35:16 2008 No.647199 [SPOILER]

File: 13 KB, 252x471, 1211175316895.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Protip: Shirou would have died a hundred times over in the battle with Gil if it wasn't for Avalon healing every wound that he took. Shit, even Archer shat a brick when he figured out that Avalon was still in Shirou.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:39:35 2008 No.647225 Why is there a new 200+ post nasuverse power level thread on the front page every time I come to /jp/?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:40:21 2008 No.647230 >>647225 it will forever be a mystery

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:40:21 2008 No.647231 >>647225 at least it is kept in a single thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:41:17 2008 No.647236 >>647199 I think the discussion is about Shirou vs. Gilgamesh inside the reality marble. Once Shirou casts UBW, Gilgamesh does not get one hit on him, Gilgamesh doesn't even get the chance to attack.

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:42:32 2008 No.647247

>>647193
Except it WAS broken by Shiki's presence alone. I'd mention Kohaku, Hisui, Neko-Arc, Len, etc, but my main point lies with Shiki. Shiki isn't a FIGHTER, he's a KILLER. The first cut should be his last and only--that's how he is. The manga goes a far feat better to demonstrate this than the game (at least then, the one time he brawls is under Sion's direct manipulation--otherwise he's a killer, through and through).

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:44:13 2008 No.647264 >>647225 You mean Melty Blood hostin' thread.

Anonymous Mon May 19 05:46:31 2008 No.647274

>>647247
This is explained by Tatari's precense changing everything around. As I said, that is the reason Tatari is used, it allowed for a fighting game to be made using characters not suited for a fighting game. Rumors become reality on the night of walachia, that is why Shiki is not just a killer as he should be, he is able to fight against people he should usually be destroyed by.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:47:06 2008 No.647285 lets just forget about all this and talk about the H scenes

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:49:01 2008 No.647293 >>647285 Rin's sucks.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:50:35 2008 No.647296 sage for FSN powerlevels And to put this into autosage faster

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:52:34 2008 No.647306 >>647236 Shirou collapsed after the battle and said that Avalon was taking priority over his broken bones instead of the wounds all over his body. In every way Gil had the advantage except one: Gil could die, Shirou wouldn't die.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:53:53 2008 No.647312 >241 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view. Don't you people have anything else to talk about?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 05:54:59 2008 No.647316 wow really, dont use melty blood as a basis for powerlevels

Anonymous Mon May 19 06:00:42 2008 No.647345

>>646211
excellent work at creating trollbait without being outright obvious about it

also
>It doesnt matter if Gil is not really a wielder of the noble phantasms, he is a Servant with abilities that pisses all over Shirou

becomes
>It doesnt matter if Caster is not really a skilled hand to hand fighter, she is a Servant with abilities that pisses all over Rin

anywho, trolling trolling trolling

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 06:04:51 2008 No.647366 File: 389 KB, 1120x1600, 1211082812149.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon May 19 06:06:43 2008 No.647378

>>647306
What is being discussed here is why Shirou was matching Gilgamesh in the melee fight inside the reality marble. Shirou took wounds before he cast UBW, yes, but once inside, it isn't stated that he took one attack from Gilgamesh. It says that each time Gilgamesh took a weapon from the Gate, Shirou attacked before Gilgamesh could strike, so he did not ever have the chance to hit Shirou. If Gilgamesh could have had one attack like that, Shirou would most likely not survive.

Anonymous Mon May 19 06:09:43 2008 No.647394

>>647378
Which goes back into the argument of just how Shirou was able to quickdraw/quickstrike against a Servant. Even with the experiences of the swords downloaded, it still should not have been possible for his body to create the speed necessary to do so.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 06:19:09 2008 No.647433 File: 74 KB, 810x648, Clipboard04.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Gilgamesh says what?

Anonymous Mon May 19 06:21:43 2008 No.647443

>>647394
That's one of the perks of Unlimited Blade Works, broseph. He doesn't need to run to the blades, he calls them to himself, just like Gilgamesh can do with GoB, except since reality is bent inside there they come to him quicker than Gil can summon them from GoB.

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon May 19 06:24:48 2008 No.647454 >>647394 Nine Lives Blade Works says otherwise. Even if the body is lacking, the technique can make up for it. Of course, Nine Lives is an extreme example, and Shirou's body was injured after he used it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 19 06:27:48 2008 No.647477 >>647454 He also had a servant's arm assisting him.

Anonymous Mon May 19 06:29:48 2008 No.647486

>>647454
It's not the same thing.

Shirou is not using the Noble Phantasms to their full potential, he pulling them out faster than Gilgamesh because that is what Unlimited Blade Works allows him to do. He strikes Gilgamesh with the same weapon faster, thus Gilgamesh can do nothing but block.

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