Can this badass motherfucker project Excalibur?

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Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:31:24 2010 No.6318486 [Reply] [Original]

Can this badass motherfucker project Excalibur?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:34:24 2010 No.6318493 Yes but not unleash his full power, and he nver does it because lol Nasu

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:34:24 2010 No.6318494 File: 226 KB, 974x520, stupid big bro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Can this badass motherfucker project some self-restraint?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:39:24 2010 No.6318504 I don't consider wanting to beat up some poor idealistic kid for the possibility of saving himself badass.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:43:24 2010 No.6318513 >>6318494 gomennasai is so weird.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:44:24 2010 No.6318517 >>6318504 Correction: a poor idealistic kid who kicked his ass and banged a delicious pigtailed tsundere Man, I wish I was a poor idealistic kid

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:01:24 2010 No.6318589 >>6318504 The guy survived Gilgamesh's GoB, saved Rin and Shirou, and finished Gil off the end. He is just pure awesomeness, and I am not even a fan of him.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:05:24 2010 No.6318603

Yes, he can.

However, he cannot release Excalibur ~ Golden Sword of Promised Victory, due to not having the tremendous magical energy required to accelerate the prana.

He can theoretically release it, only to immediately die. (See: Heaven's Feel Normal End.)

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:06:24 2010 No.6318604 inb4 Fate/stay Night baby's first VN troll etc.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:08:24 2010 No.6318606 >>6318604 This isn't /a/.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:09:24 2010 No.6318609 [SPOILER]

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>>6318493
I remember that in Fate 5th Berserker got about seven lives steamrolled by that Caliburn/ExCaliburn (in reality, actually the same sword that got duplicated in the mything process) projected by Shirou. If you consider this and all the dimensional/chronological wanking, he kinda did it already.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:15:24 2010 No.6318625 >>6318609 But wasn't Saber with him then?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:15:24 2010 No.6318628

>>6318504
He didn't just do it to save himself.
Following his logic he was doing Shirou a favour as well. Shirou never wanted that of which Archer had gotten himself into.

The place Archer got himself into also went right against their very ideal.
Archer saved people. He wasn't perfect, and in fact he compromised their ideal several times in hope of realizing it, sacrificing few to save many.
But he held on to their ideal to the very end, and he lived trying to realize it until the end.

But he never wanted to sacrifice anyone, doing so was outright agains their ideal. But Archer felt forced to do so over and over again, and he did in hopes of never having to do so ever again, finally realizing their ideal.

In the end Archer was a Hero, he saved many, and he continued to do so for his entire life.
Then, at his final moments, in a conflict outside of his capabilities, he made a contract with the world.
In exchange for power, power needed to sort out the conflict and save everyone, he were to become an eternal guardian, serving the world forever.
He made that deal, and he saved them, and in the end he died with a smile on his face.
And the price he payed was one he could happily accept, as a guardian, he could continue to save people forever, with an eternity trying to realize the ideal. And so he became a guardian and saved an infinite number of people, for all eternity, as an eternal guardian, a hero.

With that, he was/is truly a great man.
But this is also the tough part for them.
Indeed he did save many, and as a guardian he continued to save people forever.
But not during his life, nor during the eternity as a guardian, did Archer ever have or gain the power to save people without making sacrifices.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:16:24 2010 No.6318630

>>6318628
This became outright devestating for him. In the past he had sacrificed few to save many, not because he wanted to, in fact he never wanted to, but he did so in hope of never having to do so ever again.
As long as he had a future Archer still had hope, but as a Guardian, the time was up. Archer had already spent the eternity to save people, but it never ended, and he never gained the power to save people without sacrifices.
As a Guardian he saved many by sacrificing the few, and he did so forever.
And just as he saved an infinite number of people, he also sacrificed an infinite number of people, and he was powerless to change this.
And sacrifices was never allowed. The hell Archer found himself in the end was one that should have never been, he never wanted people to be saved through sacrifices, and he never wanted to sacrifice people.

Neither Shirou nor Archer wanted that.
In the end, Archer, the hero who saved people his entire life and continued to do so for an eternity afterwards, only wanted to set things right.
That end was something that should have never been. If that's it, then the hero Emiya Shirou should have never existed.
But Emiya will still always be a hero even so, because no matter what, Emiya is the boy who lived the life of a hero and saved people for an eternity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:18:24 2010 No.6318639 >>6318609 Caliburn and Excalibur are two different swords

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:18:24 2010 No.6318640

>>6318609

>5th Berserker got about seven lives steamrolled by that Caliburn/ExCaliburn (in reality, actually the same sword that got duplicated in the mything process)

Sorry, not in the Nasuverse. Caliburn ~ Golden Sword of Owed Victory is not the same Noble Phantasm as Excalibur ~ Golden Sword of Promised Victory.
(And yes, "owed" is different than "promised". "Owed" means "should give me", "Promised" means "will certainly give me".)

>projected by Shirou.

Also wrong, it can only take out 7 lives of Heracles with a decisive blow from Arturia.

>If you consider this and all the dimensional/chronological wanking, he kinda did it already.

No. Archer, going all out, with no support from a Master or other Servant, can only slay Heracles 6 times.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:19:24 2010 No.6318644 Lancelot wielding Archer wielding Excalibur > Archer wielding Excalibur.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:23:24 2010 No.6318656 >>6318640 >can only slay Heracles 6 times. Take that with some room for plus/minus. Things aren't as absolute as that.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:28:24 2010 No.6318673

>>6318656

Alright, fine. Plus or minus one life at best.

He might manage more with Tohsaka at his side, or being assisted by a Command Spell, but Heracles himself (even insane), along with God Hand the Noble Phantasm, learns and reacts to attacks. So he can't just spam the same A rank sword, and remembering the drop in rank (making it harder to bypass God Hand in the first place), it means he'd have to project a lot of A or higher rank swords.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:32:24 2010 No.6318684 >>6318644 Lancelot double wielding Gilgamesh and Archer. What now?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:32:24 2010 No.6318688 >>6318673 Can't he Broken Phantasm to compensate for the rank drop? I suppose we don't know exactly how Broken Phantasm really works though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:33:24 2010 No.6318690 >>6318684 Gilgamesh isn't a sword, silly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:34:24 2010 No.6318693 >>6318684 That sounds like a good idea for a gay doujin.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:35:24 2010 No.6318698 >>6318690 What about Shirou? Technically he's made of swords?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:36:24 2010 No.6318701 File: 24 KB, 200x175, tea.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318698 Are you even aware who Archer is?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:38:24 2010 No.6318713

>>6318673
Yeah sure, without doubt.

Archer can pull of some great stuff, but that's really more great potential than anything else.
Berserker is still insanely strong, and while being in full Berserker rage his skill (or rather instinct) is also outstanding, even among heroes.

While Archer is one with the potential of killing Berserker any number of times in theory, it would by no means be bullshit for Berserker to strike down Archer before he even managed to take down one.

Even with UBW in effect and mana storage to spare, Berserker would be an opponent on a diferent level.
Even if UBW carries an unlimited number of weapons, Berserker is immune to all up to B rank, and so he can withstand the majority of what UBW can dish out, and B+/A weapons can still be blocked, and are not certain to have effect.

Berserker is simply "outstanding" one might say.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:39:24 2010 No.6318723 >>6318701 Shirou is to Archer what Gungnir is to Gae Bolg.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:42:24 2010 No.6318733

>>6318688
>I suppose we don't know exactly how Broken Phantasm really works though.
He overcharge it with mana, in order to increase it's power.

I bet it's costly, perhaps as much as activating a mana blast/noble phantasm attack.
Archer is a very Versatile hero (the Archer class is more or less the D&D rogue, so that's no surprise), but he still very mana costly.
While Lancer can take out Gaue Bolg and activate it.
Archer would have to. 1. Project it, 2. Overload it into a broken phantasm, 3. Activate it, in order for it to have the same effect.

Versatility is great, but unless one can support great amounts of mana, Archer might not be the most suitable servant.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:44:24 2010 No.6318738 I always thought Shirou and Saber taking 7 lifes of Berserker with Caliburn was utter bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:44:24 2010 No.6318740 >Versatility is great, but unless one can support great amounts of mana, Archer might not be the most suitable servant. That or a basement full of slowly decomposing children.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:46:24 2010 No.6318748 >>6318740 Or a life-link to the infinite mana of the world itself. Counter Guardian EMIYA > every single Servant.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:09:24 2010 No.6318828
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>>6318640
>Sorry, not in the Nasuverse. Caliburn ~ Golden Sword of Owed Victory is not the same Noble Phantasm as Excalibur ~ Golden Sword of Promised Victory.
(And yes, "owed" is different than "promised". "Owed" means "should give me", "Promised" means "will certainly give me".)

Ah yes, they certainly are separate entities in the game, as in most of the actual tales about King Arthur. I merely pointed out that as the legend of King Arthur expanded, the variations about his weapon were fused in the same story, leaving him with two very similarly named swords. Even Gilgamesh points out this "evolution" of legendary weapons, as he has the sword Gram that was the basis of Excalibur. (The etymology is pointed out here, for example: http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Caliburn#Real_History_and_Etymology))

>Also wrong, it can only take out 7 lives of Heracles with a decisive blow from Arturia.
I might've been wrong here. I only recall Shirou projecting some kind of holy sword in the scene, it might've been Caliburn, too. But in my post I was vague about the true identity of the sword, so meh. And yes, it was clearly Arturia who made the 7 lives possible.

>No. Archer, going all out, with no support from a Master or other Servant, can only slay Heracles 6 times.
I might've been a little ambiguous here. I meant that IF the Shirou from Fate would become Archer, he would've already projected the Caliburn, which I believe is fairly close to Excalibur in power. From which can be somewhat logically derived that he could it as Archer, too.

I kinda mixed the ingame Excalibur/Caliburn, sorry.

Also, I believe that the 4th Rider and full-prana Gilgamesh could practically certainly defeat 30% Arcueid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:14:24 2010 No.6318834 ITT We try to make sense of the fact that the 5th War was packed top to bottom with undefeatable characters.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:17:24 2010 No.6318840

>>6318828

>I meant that IF the Shirou from Fate would become Archer, he would've already projected the Caliburn, which I believe is fairly close to Excalibur in power. From which can be somewhat logically derived that he could it as Archer, too.

It's not really close to Excalibur in power. From what we've seen, it only operated as an anti-Unit Noble Phantasm. Even if that level of damage was comparable to Excalibur, Excalibur is an anti-Fortress NP of the largest variety. Shirou simply doesn't have the mana capacity to replicate it and live.

>4th Rider [...] could practically certainly defeat 30% Arcueid.

Probably almost certainly not. The only chance I'd give him is if Ionioi Hetairoi temporarily severs her connection to the World. If so, combining it with Via Expugnatio may potentially (though improbable) actually bring her down. In all likelyhood, he'd be crushed and his "magnificent army" would be reduced to pulp.

>full-prana Gilgamesh

Actually probable, but only at maximum seriousness. Enuma Elish is what would win it for him, as it is a weapon that can "challenge the World".

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:18:24 2010 No.6318844 >>6318828 No. Excalibur in the Nasuverse has no original. Caliburn, yes. Excalibur does not due to being created by the planet itself, and not being an previous weapon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:23:24 2010 No.6318860 >>6318834 >implying the 4th war servants couldn't mop the floor with the 5th war servants

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:23:24 2010 No.6318861 File: 73 KB, 700x992, 128681015397.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318840 I meant a mad tag-team match of the Kings against Arcueid, obviously. Let's make it Alexander + Gilgamesh + Accelerator, just to be on the safe side.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:24:24 2010 No.6318863 >>6318860 Rider can solo more than half of the 4th war servants with just her eyes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:24:24 2010 No.6318868 >>6318861 >Accelerator This is the level of the TM fandom nowadays.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:25:24 2010 No.6318871

>>6318844
No, that's somewhat wrong.

Gram is the original of them.
Excalibur is just an example of a sword that has grown past the original.

Yes it's made by the world, or rather the fearies of it.
But that doesn't matter, it's got to do with history and the stories/myths around them.

Gae bolg was created from the bone of a sea monster.
Gugnir was created shortly during the first age of the world, crafted by master dwarf craftsmen.
In that regard they have no relation to eachother, yet Gugnir is considered the original due to the qualities of the spears.

As with Excalibur.
Gram -> Caladfwlch -> Caladbolg/Excalibur
Hrunting might fit somewhere in there as well

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:31:24 2010 No.6318891

>>6318871

No, that is wholesomely incorrect. Excalibur DOES NOT HAVE AN ORIGINAL. Nor does Avalon. They are both unique items crafted for Arturia alone, without a base.

You seem to misunderstand how the "prototype -> derivative" system works. Caliburn is not just Gram after 1500 years. Caliburn is a sword, forged by someone (probably Merlin), basing it off the legendary sword Gram, sharing the concept and purpose of its creation.

Excalibur has no such base.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:36:24 2010 No.6318903 File: 124 KB, 800x600, 1286931918584.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318891 Relax, mister. I think he's talking about the Excalibur of "our real world", not the one in the game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:38:24 2010 No.6318912 File: 980 KB, 1280x1280, 1286666039795.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318903 I do not even know how to make sense of that.

>>	～(￣∇￣～) !NACK.rrrr. Wed Oct 20 18:40:24 2010 No.6318920 >>6318912 The excalibur of the real arthurian legend and not the lolnasu one?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:40:24 2010 No.6318921

>>6318828
>Also, I believe that the 4th Rider and full-prana Gilgamesh could practically certainly defeat 30% Arcueid.

No, no fucking way. First, Reality Marbles are useless against Arcueid due to lol Blue Die Schwester, she can't be trapped inside an internal landscape, so Alexander can't use his RM against her. And anyway, if Arcueid feels threatened she is surely going to switch to her Crimson Moon personality, and Crimson Moon loves to play around using her Marble Phantasm at it's maximum potential.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:41:24 2010 No.6318924 >>6318920 >real arturian legend >real [...] legend you lost me.jpg

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:42:24 2010 No.6318931 >>6318921 He said 30% Arcueid, not Raging 100% Arcueid. No Crimson Moon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:44:24 2010 No.6318940 >>6318863 >Implying those eyes did shit against Kuzuki. Besides, we already know Gil could have killed everyone in both wars in a single night by himself if he felt like it.

>>	～(￣∇￣～) !NACK.rrrr. Wed Oct 20 18:44:24 2010 No.6318944 File: 94 KB, 600x480, 3dkastell weird.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318924 You know what I mean. The "authentic" legend.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:45:24 2010 No.6318951 >>6318940 She died with Breaker Gorgon on, as she never removed it while serving under Shinji to conserve Sakura's prana. Furthermore, Caster could have easily flooded Kuzuki's systems with anti-petrification.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:45:24 2010 No.6318952 >>6318931 Crimson Moon is Arcueid, Arcueid is Crimson Moon, they are one and the same, defeating 30% Arcueid meas defeating Crimson Moon.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:48:24 2010 No.6318958

>>6318952

No, you're overblowing it.

Just assume in this context that Arcueid is locked at 30%, and can't go up or down in power. Furthermore, Arcueid is an individual without the Crimson Moon's personality, even while Raging. It's just that the Crimson Moon will certainly possess her once her power reaches an optimal point to be used.

>>6318944

>implying anyone fucking agrees about anything regarding Arthurian legend after those damn French mucked everything up

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:48:24 2010 No.6318959 >>6318921 Gil can defeat Acruied by himself, but will never be able to in reality since he's a douchebag with a huge ego. One full blast from Ea and Acruied would instantly dissolve.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:53:24 2010 No.6318976 >>6318951 If Caster and Rider looked into each other's eyes they'd probably make out because ALL WOMEN IN THE NASUVERSE ARE BI WHY IS THIS I MEAN REALLY

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:56:07 2010 No.6318991 [DELETED]

>>6318958
No, you don't get it, Arcueid has the Crimson Moon personality inside her, and she always switches once she needs her, just like when Ryougi Shiki went to train with her father she switched to her male personality for that. At the same time, if Arcueid feels threatened and realizes that she cannot win, she will switch to her Crimson Moon personality.

And no, Crimson Moon will not take control of her body once she becomes berserk and reaches 100%, that already happened 800 years ago. The CM personality in Arcueid works just like the male personality in Ryougi Shiki.

How about this for example.

There is Arcueid (1) and Arcueid (2) inside a Arcueid (3) body. Arcueid (1) typically gets full control but at times Shiki (2) pops out or is used by Arcueid (1) for specific tasks. If Arcueid (1) dissolves completely for some reason, Arcueid (2) gets full control, but when it comes down to it, (1) and (2) are both Arcueid (3), the body.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:58:24 2010 No.6318995

>>6318958
No, you don't get it, Arcueid has the Crimson Moon personality inside her, and she always switches once she needs her, just like when Ryougi Shiki went to train with her father she switched to her male personality for that. At the same time, if Arcueid feels threatened and realizes that she cannot win, she will switch to her Crimson Moon personality.

And no, Crimson Moon will not take control of her body once she becomes berserk and reaches 100%, that already happened 800 years ago. The CM personality in Arcueid works just like the male personality in Ryougi Shiki.

How about this for example.

There is Arcueid (1) and Arcueid (2) inside a Arcueid (3) body. Arcueid (1) typically gets full control but at times Arcueid (2) pops out or is used by Arcueid (1) for specific tasks. If Arcueid (1) dissolves completely for some reason, Arcueid (2) gets full control, but when it comes down to it, (1) and (2) are both Arcueid (3), the body.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:01:24 2010 No.6319005 >>6318995 What? No. Crimson Moon is more akin to Roa than an alternate personality.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:01:24 2010 No.6319007

>>6318995

It's still irrelevant.

The context was that Iskander and Gilgamesh together might be able to defeat 30% Arcueid, no more, no less, no Crimson Moon.

Also, while you might think of it that way, Crimson Moon still has to exist as its own separate entity, since it could use ANY True Ancestor. (It just happens to be that Arc is the only one left.)

But enough of that tangent.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:03:24 2010 No.6319011 >>6319007 >The context was that Iskander and Gilgamesh together might be able to defeat 30% Arcueid, no more, no less, no Crimson Moon. But, Gil can beat 30% and 100% Acruied as long as there is no Crimson Moon by himself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:06:24 2010 No.6319024 File: 23 KB, 1591x268, pl.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Adolf Hitler loves !RUMIAxIXcU Wed Oct 20 19:09:24 2010 No.6319029

>>6319024
Ex Rumia = Adolf Hitler = Hirohito = Advent Cirno = Erwin Rommel = Otto Skorzeny (with Chen fusion. See picutre) = Death Star > Shikieki = Douglas MacArthur (Pipe and Sunglasses Mega Prime) = Mussolini = Winston Churchill = Roosevelt (Mecha Wheelchair version) = Montgomery = Himmler (Crystal glasses mode) = Reimu > Stalin (1944 upgade) = Tojo = Yamamoto > Yuuka > Yukari > Flandre > Yuugi > Watasuki Sisters Vegeto (SS4) > Letty (Full power) > Suwako = Kanako > Mokou = Kaguya > Suika > Eisenhower > Marisa > Remilia > Mima > Yuyuko > Ran > a SS soldier > Gogeta (SS4) > Komachi = Tenshi > Sanae > Eirin > Koishi > Satori > Utosho > Iku > Elly > Nue > Wing Gundam > EX Keine > Goku = Vegeta > Alice > Sakuya > Patcholi > Orin > Youmu > Lyrica = Merlin = Lunasa > Reisen > Medicine > Keine > Nitori > The Bible > Hong Meiling > "The Scientific Companion" > ZUN > Parsee > Hina > Mystia > Wriggle > Yamame > Starsapphire = Lunachild = Sunnymilk > Black People > Dirt > Poland > Jews > Type Mercury ORT = VIVIT = Demonbane

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:10:24 2010 No.6319033

>>6319005
No, she isn't, why do you think the Crimson Moon in Arcueid has Arcueid's form? that's because the Crimson Moon inside Arcueid is also Arcueid and not the original Crimson Moon. Roa is different, inside his host, Roa has the appearance of the original one, the blond haired Roa. If anything, the mechanics of the CM personality are more akin to the ones of Justica von Einzbern.

>>6319007
No, all the True Ancestors have one CM personality inside them, the CM in Arcueid is different than the CM inside Altrouge for example. Why do you think the CM in Arc also likes Shiki? And no, Crimson Moon cannot use any True Ancestor, the CM can only manifest in Arcueid, since she is the only TA that reached the maximun degree of purity. And like I said, defeating Arc = defeating CM, since Arc always changes personalities when she needs it.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:11:24 2010 No.6319035
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Actually, the Rider/Gilgamesh/Arcuied thingie was some self-reflective sarcasm about that we can argue about practically anything, and love every argument of it.

But by all means, let's continue. This whole 30% Arcueid conversation just keeps on bringing new insights to light everytime we have it.

Sincerely,
>>6318828

～(￣∇￣～) !NACK.rrrr. Wed Oct 20 19:11:24 2010 No.6319042

>>6319024
Chapulin Colorado>Súper Sam>El Mantoncísimo Kid>El Shory=El Tripaseca>Alma Negra>El Rascabuches>Señor Barriga>El Matalote=Profesor Jirafales>El Cuajináis>Doctor Chapatín=El Profesor Panchostein>Doña Florinda>Don Ramon=La Bruja del 71>El Gran Jefe Carne Seca=El Chompiras y el Peterete>La Minina=El Botija=Chavo>Quico>Chilindrina=Ñoño=El Panza Loca=El Sabandija>Rosa la Rumorosa>Popis=Godinez=El Gorgojo>El Pocas Trancas

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:12:24 2010 No.6319044 File: 251 KB, 589x700, 1270964116878.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6319029 Stop slandering ORT-chan! Every time you offend me by insulting her! She is planetary destruction tier, so she has to be at least equal to Death Star!

>>	Freezing !I8PjSaya5Y Wed Oct 20 19:15:24 2010 No.6319055 Archer can project Excalibur but it will take too much of his mana to do that(and might klill him).

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:19:24 2010 No.6319071

To kill a True Ancestor, you need a force capable of destroying the planet. Gilgamesh possesses such a force. Ergo, Gilgamesh can kill True Ancestors. He wouldn't in practice, because he wouldn't acknowledge Arcueid as an enemy until too late, but 30% Arcueid would be nothing to him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:20:24 2010 No.6319079 >>6319033 > And no, Crimson Moon cannot use any True Ancestor, the CM can only manifest in Arcueid Nope. Any one that can summon the Millenium Castle is a potential host for the Crimson Moon to use in his reincarnation.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:30:24 2010 No.6319129

>>6319079
Wrong, that's wrong, any True Ancestor that can summon the castle is worthy of the title Brunestud, but the Crimson Moon can only manifest in True Ancestors of the same degree of purity as it. Altrouge is not a suitable host for the fact that she is impure, she is tainted by human blood, while Arcueid is the True Ancestors of the most high degree of purity in the long history of the True Ancestors.

>but 30% Arcueid would be nothing to him.

Lol no, 30% Crimson Moon Arcueid >>>> Gil so much it's not even funny, even Arcueid in her normal state is just a little slower than Rider's Noble Phantasm, and that's just her average speed, and she also has the stats of Berserker. She also can summon her Millenium Castle to reach 100% of power. So yeah, if she is not handicapped, Gil has little chance of winning.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:36:24 2010 No.6319159

>>6319129
>Use Ea
>Send Acruied to the beginning of time before the Earth was created
>Big Bang has no occured yet, so entire space is just a mass of condensed atoms
>Acruied is dissolved and separated without any way to regenerate and stuck in there forever

I don't see the problem.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:36:24 2010 No.6319164 >>6319129 I don't think you understand how Enuma Elish works. Arcueid could be on the exact opposite side of the planet and she'd still die if he really wanted to kill her.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:38:24 2010 No.6319168 >>6319159 Enuma Elish does not send you to the beginning of time, it sends you to the beginning of the Earth. Presumably, it was the act that created Gaia.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:38:24 2010 No.6319171 >>6319159 Ea is honestly a stupid skill. Basically, Gil is the 2nd strongest person in the entire world just because of that sword.

>>	Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 Wed Oct 20 19:39:24 2010 No.6319174 >>6319164 >ARCUEID MUST DIE Why.jpg must I expire?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:40:24 2010 No.6319177 >>6319171 EA IS NOT THE SKILL. EA IS THE SWORD. ENUMA ELISH IS THE SKILL USED IF YOU WIELD THE SWORD EA. HOLY FUCK STOP GETTING IT WRONG WHEN EVERYONE ELSE IS GETTING IT RIGHT.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:40:24 2010 No.6319179 >>6319164 He needs to activate it first, not only that, but Ea only works by accelerating wind pressure, and guess who has control over the wind. Arcueid can just create an absolute vaccum with no oxygen. No wind to accelerate = no Enuma Elish.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:42:24 2010 No.6319187 >>6319179 Which is why 30% Arcueid utterly destroyed poor old Roa, who had no way of getting in range to use his eyes on her due to her amazing prowess.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:43:24 2010 No.6319191
File: 69 KB, 640x512, d7c6567e934fa0_full.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6319177

Don't forget that it's not even called "Ea". The Sword of Separation has no real name, Gilgamesh just calls it Ea in homage to the Sumerian goddess of water.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:43:24 2010 No.6319193 >>6319129 Gil vs. Arc is like Batman vs. Superman.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:43:24 2010 No.6319195 >>6319179 At full power, no. It just punches a whole through time and space by rotating. The tornado-esque effect is just a side effect of that.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:45:24 2010 No.6319203
File: 64 KB, 800x600, Fate Stay Night 022f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6319195

Even at maximum power, it takes a moment to charge, if not a moment to call its true name.

In said time frame, Marble Phantasm can slice Gilgamesh to ribbons.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:47:24 2010 No.6319212

>>6319203
Assuming Gil isn't being a sandbagging dickhead, then, as he has the originals of every noble phantasm except those with no origin in his time, he'd presumably having the origin of Rho Aias, which would easily stop whatever natural phenomenon Arcueid could cause with Marble Phantasm, so she'd have to hit him head on.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:48:24 2010 No.6319216

>>6319187
> is why 30% Arcueid utterly destroyed poor old Roa
>30%

Ok, now you are just being stupid. Aside from being incredible weakened at that point that she barely had the power to use her phantasm, Roa had plot armor, he only survived because the plot said so. Under normal circumstances, Arcueid would have killed him, using her Crimson Moon personality or not.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:48:24 2010 No.6319219

>>6319203
Riders army will hold Arcueid back just long enough for Gil to prepare Enuma Elish. Alexander might not be able to harm Arcueid with his Marble, but he can create favorable conditions for Gilgamesh.

Accelerator might be able to defend Gil a bit, too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:51:24 2010 No.6319225 >>6319216 This is the Nasuverse, you don't get to make arguments like that. If not for Shirou's plot armour and Gilgamesh's plot stupidity, Shirou dies, Gilgamesh gets the Holy Grail, gets his wish, Arcueid dies from the power of Angra Mainyu.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:51:24 2010 No.6319226 >>6319216 >Roa had plot armor, he only survived because the plot said so. That plot armor didn't last very long at ALL. Shiki can kill plot armor?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:51:24 2010 No.6319227 >>6319219 No, Iskander's RM will not work against Arcueid due to Blut die Schwester.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:51:24 2010 No.6319230

>>6319177
Hey, Ea is not the actual name of the sword. Stop being mad when you're also wrong.

>>6319179
No it doesn't. You're probably thinking of Excalibur, and even that is wrong. Neither of them activate due to wind, the temporal distortion causes either a release or collection of wind and is the actual initiator.

>>6319203
Well, now we're getting into the specifics of a battle. Remember that Gil can be a zoning bitch and use any of his phantasms during this time at will, keeping Acruied at bay. Fact of the matter is, Gil can easily over power Acruied.
I think Nasu even said he wins or something.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:52:24 2010 No.6319237 >>6319227 No, I was talking about the wind you required. Or did you already work your way around it? Riders RM supplies Gil with the wind you said he needs for this NP.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:52:24 2010 No.6319238 >>6319230 It's not the actual name, but if the King of Heroes calls it something, you listen to him.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:54:24 2010 No.6319244

>>6319226
Shiki is the protagonist, the male lead needs to kill the main villain, right? It would have been terrribly boring for the story if Arcueid would have killed Roa right there, not to mention that she wouldn't have gotten her power back that way, however it would have been much more plausible.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:57:24 2010 No.6319255

>>6319179
It doesn't really do wind pressure. That's more of a side effect. When it rotates it breaks time/space whatever.

Ea rips a hole in space time showing the 'truth'. In other worlds a time from before the world was created- or rather a time before Gaia existed back in Creation. In other words it can be called some kind of time travel.

Now what happens if Arc gets hit with this?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:59:24 2010 No.6319264

>>6319230
>I think Nasu even said he wins or something.

Nasu only said that Gil might win against 30% Arc, that's all. In other words, Arc is limited to not summon her castle (otherwise she will reach 100%), and to not switch personalities. Gilgamesh has little chance against her inside the Millenium Castle, the same goes if she switches to her CM personality, and she can do both if she wants.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:01:24 2010 No.6319270 >>6319225 >gets his wish What could he possibly wish?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:02:24 2010 No.6319271

>>6319255
But Avalon somehow negated the effect of Enuma Elish. Furthermore, Avalon was stated to block "all the matter of that world" so, without delving into the aspect of dual matter/energy -equivalency, isn't Enuma Elish after all just something physical? It was described as a whole lot of very small curses.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:02:24 2010 No.6319272

>>6319255
>While Excalibur releases air, the triblade segments of Ea start rotating rapidly, creating a shrilling howl, on Gilgamesh's command, once telling it to "wake up", and begin to swallow, compress, and accelerate wind pressure. This wind is compressed into an artificial space-time dislocation capable of pulverizing any opposition.
>This wind is compressed into an artificial space-time dislocation capable of pulverizing any opposition.

No wind = no Ea.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:04:24 2010 No.6319283 >>6319270 It was to make every human suffer and die, or something along the line. >>6319272 But Alexander's RM can provide him with air and wind, so no problem there.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:06:24 2010 No.6319293

>>6319264
He directly said in Comptiq 9 that Gil wins.

Arc has horrible compatibility with people like him. Arc only gets backup to be 'stronger than the opponent' however this only means stat-wise. Not including weapons and all that shit. And guess who has thousands of Noble Phantasms?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:07:24 2010 No.6319301 >>6319225 Gil's wish is to kill all humans, he doesn' even know about Arcueid, and she doesn't count as a human.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:07:24 2010 No.6319307

>>6319271
Avalon seals you in a pocket Dimension. Also, Gil wasn't using the full power of Ea, only using the wind burst thing.
But presumably Avalon and Full Power Ea would probably result in everything around Saber using Avalon being reverted to the world's primal state.
>>6319272
Once again, that's not full power Ea. We've only seen a fraction of Full Power Ea once, and that was in F/Z.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:08:24 2010 No.6319309 >>6319293 Would that refer to the stats of 4th war Gil or 5th war Gil? The ones mentioned in the light novels differentiate a bit from the ones in the original VN.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:08:24 2010 No.6319312

>>6319271

Avalon doesn't really stop anything. It can cause some redirection, as shown on Gil's shoulder in its first appearance, but the real effect of Avalon is nulling the target.

Like so.
Enuma Elish fires at Saber.
Saber activates Avalon.
Enuma Elish now has no target and rips apart thin air.
Avalon ends, and Saber "reappears", having suffered absolutely none of the effects of Enuma Elish.

It basically stashes Saber into a pocket dimension that can't even be accessed by Sorcery.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:09:24 2010 No.6319314

>>6319272
I'm pretty sure that's the physical form of the attack.
If you play Hollow Axtaria, the dimensional effect doesn't seem to be from the wind.

>>6319264
Yeah, fags in here are arguing that Gil would lose to her even then.

>>6319271
No. Avalon literally transports the King to her land so that no effects can reach her. This is different from physically blocking an attack. Besides, Gil only used part of Ea's power with the physical manifestation of energy, I'm not sure if Avalon's dimensional travel will negate Ea's dimensional rift at full power (they probably cancel though).

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:10:24 2010 No.6319320 >>6319293 Nasu wasn't taking into account Arc's CM personality, let alone her Millenium Castle. Gil can only defeat an extremely handicapped version of Arc, he is no match against 100% Arc (specially if her CM personality is taking control).

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:10:24 2010 No.6319321 >>6319314 >If you play Hollow Axtaria, the dimensional effect doesn't seem to be from the wind. Derp, F/Z. I'm high.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:11:24 2010 No.6319323 >>6319301 I thought it was the death of every living thing on the planet?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:11:24 2010 No.6319325 >>6319320 100% Arc wasn't part of this equation in the first place!

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:11:52 2010 No.6319327 [DELETED]

>>6319271
Full Power Ea was never used against Avalon so we've no idea what effect the "Truth" would have upon Avalon.
>>6319272
Once again, that's the non-Full Powered Ea. The closest we've seen full power Ea was in Fate/Zero and there Ea just spins and suddenly "Truth" appears.

>>6319283
Gil's wish is for Humanity to have value again. Of course value being his definition of it and would most likely require most of the world to die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:12:24 2010 No.6319332 >>6319320 But, we're not talking about full power god mode sue. Why do you keep bringing that up when no one is debating it? You sound perplexed.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:13:24 2010 No.6319335

>>6319283
>>6319301
>>6319323

No, you crazy people. Gilgamesh wanted to spill the contents of the Grail (release all the curses of Angra Mainyu, but not release Angra Mainyu the Servant upon the world) and watch the devastation as the vast, vast majority of humanity burns and dies in the darkness.
He would then lead the remaining humans who he deems worthy for surviving such an apocalypse.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:13:24 2010 No.6319338 >>6319301 Gil's wish is for humanity to have value again. Of course, that's his own definition of value and would probably require most of the world to die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:14:24 2010 No.6319345 >>6319332 Because 30% Arc can summon her castle to reach 100%. She has no bloodlust inside her castle.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:15:24 2010 No.6319348 >>6319345 Then Gil wins because Nasu said he wins against Arc normally. If you take that as not 30% Arc, then Gil beats even Crimson Moon Arc by your definition.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:16:24 2010 No.6319353 >>6319335 This. Basically, he only wants the strong to survive because humanity is slowly becoming complacent.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:19:24 2010 No.6319373 >>6319348 That interview was quite old, in the Fate/Extra interview Nasu explictly said that Arcueid was the strongest character in his released works.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:21:55 2010 No.6319387 >>6319373 There is no debating that Gil is not the strongest. He simply said that Gil can beat Acrueid. End of story like Shiki vs Shirou = draw.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:22:24 2010 No.6319391 >>6319373 There is no debating that Arc is the strongest. He simply said that Gil can beat Acrueid. End of story like Shiki vs Shirou = draw.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:27:24 2010 No.6319407 >>6319373 Kindly remember that being the strongest does not mean invincible, or that you will win every fight. The Nasuverse has always had situation and matchups be more important than raw power, anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:34:24 2010 No.6319445 >>6319345 SHE CANNOT REACH 100 % EVEN IN HER CASTLE SHE CAN ONLY USE AS MUCH AS GAIA SAYS

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:37:24 2010 No.6319457 >>6319345 >100% Nope.jpg 30% is being discussed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:42:24 2010 No.6319488 >>6319345 Some guy riding on Arc's imaginary testes got owned. Now stop posting, it's /thread.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:48:24 2010 No.6319511

>>6319445
Huh? No you idiot, she currently has access to only 30% of her powers because she is using the other 70% to supress her vampiric impulses.

>>6319457
But then, 30% is her weakened state, in other words Gil only has a chance against her if she is weakened, so much for the almighty King of Heroes, what's the point in fighting a weakened woman.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:48:24 2010 No.6319513 File: 98 KB, 340x376, Template.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6319488 Yes. Archer CAN project Excalibur. Is someone willing to exert the effort to store this knowledge for generations to come?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 20:52:24 2010 No.6319522
File: 299 KB, 500x400, UnlimitedEssayWorks.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6319511
>But then, 30% is her weakened state, in other words Gil only has a chance against her if she is weakened, so much for the almighty King of Heroes, what's the point in fighting a weakened woman.

Because sometimes, you have to learn to walk before you can learn to run.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 21:02:24 2010 No.6319560

>>6319511
>But then, 30% is her weakened state, in other words Gil only has a chance against her if she is weakened, so much for the almighty King of Heroes, what's the point in fighting a weakened woman.

None, since no one can beat a God Mode/Purity/Mary Sue all in one. Still, you have to give Gil mad props for being able to defeat her at 30% when most of the FS/N would die (except Kotomine, because he'd just make some convoluted plan to kill her and have it backfire at the last second).

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 21:07:24 2010 No.6319582 >>6319560 ORT-chan could do it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 21:12:24 2010 No.6319599 >>6319511 Gaia provides backup so she will always be stronger then her opponent.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 21:20:24 2010 No.6319633 >>6319599 But Ea severs the connection with Gaia anyways, so Gil wins against a weakened Acrueid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 22:13:24 2010 No.6319841 >Powerlevel discussion ORT could kill anyone, end of thread.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 22:22:24 2010 No.6319880 >>6319841 Except maybe Arcueid, since she can counter his Crystall Valley with her Blue die Schwester.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 22:24:24 2010 No.6319888 >>6319880 And then he'd eat her, or it'll be a battle between Type-Mercury and Type-Moon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 22:31:24 2010 No.6319916 >>6319841 In Character Material it says ORT's only weakness is Ultraman. The Ultra Seven will completely rape ORT.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 22:32:24 2010 No.6319922 >>6319888 There is no Type Moon aymore, and there will never be, even if Crimson Moon gets full control of the body, that wouldn't make her Type Moon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 22:34:24 2010 No.6319934 >>6319916 That's only regular ORT though, not full-power Mahou Shoujo ORT.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 22:49:24 2010 No.6319975 >>6319934 Why do you think I said rape?

>>	iRage !RAGEpq8/Ww Wed Oct 20 23:15:24 2010 No.6320054 File: 162 KB, 792x1159, slash emperor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] SUDDENLY

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 03:07:24 2010 No.6320798 File: 150 KB, 600x750, 1258430517966.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6319934 > Mahou Shoujo ORT

>>	Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 Thu Oct 21 03:21:24 2010 No.6320815 >>6320054 >SLASH EMPRAH OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE hopy shit

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 04:56:24 2010 No.6321047

>Excalibur does not due to being created by the planet itself, and not being an previous weapon.
>and not being an previous weapon.
Is this really what people believe after reading the thing?
The prototype to other weapon things doesn't work like that.

Like that other anon mentioned, gae bolg has nothing to do with Gugnir but it's powers grew to resemble that of it and so it became a derived weapon.
None of them have been an actual previous weapon.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 07:53:24 2010 No.6321327

>>6318871
Merodach => Gram => Caliburn. Gil knew of Gram, he countered Shirou with Merodach.

>Re: Arcueid
ITT we fail to realize once Gil's killed her body once she'll come back full-on berserker and wipe the pavement with his face as it's not LOLSTRENGTH or LOLBEAMS that make her the strongest person on the planet.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 07:59:24 2010 No.6321337 >>6321327 Not if Full Power Ea is used. Arc can't draw power from something that doesn't exist yet.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 08:00:24 2010 No.6321339 >ITT We try to make sense of the fact that the 5th War was packed top to bottom with undefeatable characters.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 08:07:24 2010 No.6321347

>>6321337
A full powered Ea won't crack the earth in two you dipshit. EX rank means an unmeasurable stat, not a DBZ free spam card.

Ea's entire premise is a sorcery/fake miracle that diverts the world to the origin of life by a false time/space layer. It's not a strength attack, it's a nature attack. Most/almost all targets of said attack wouldn't be able to survive that reversal, which is why it's so powerful.

Nasu even set a limit to the target number/range. The Anti-World notation comes from what's described above. Gil can't destroy the fucking planet with a Magic Drill, no matter how much the majority of you want him to. Learn to not inject shounen power levels in everything you read.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 08:07:24 2010 No.6321349

why didn't archer copy 9 lives against berzerker like shirou did?

why does that stupid power level list have hf shirou being stonger than ubw shirou when he can only use projection 4 times before he goes braindead?

does gilgamesh have longinus in his treasury? would it kill arc if he stabbed her with it? what about ort?

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 09:20:24 2010 No.6321463

>>6321349
Yes, the Black Barrel is extremely useful against Arc because she is immortal. But since she has better immortality than the Types, the best thing the BB can do is seal her (permanently), so it's almost the same as killing her. And yeah, the BB should be able to kill ORT. But not sure if Gil has it inside his vault.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 09:39:24 2010 No.6321510

>>6321349

>why didn't archer copy 9 lives against berzerker like shirou did?

I imagine it would be NOWHERE near as efficient against Heracles when he's not blind.

Heracles is insane, but his warrior instincts are top-notch. He probably would recognize his own attack.

>why does that stupid power level list have hf shirou being stonger than ubw shirou when he can only use projection 4 times before he goes braindead?

That's only due to the interference of Archer's arm. HF Shirou apparently has powers of his own, different from the standard UBW, that Nasu never really described.

>does gilgamesh have longinus in his treasury? would it kill arc if he stabbed her with it? what about ort?

Gilgamesh probably does not have Black Barrel, if you mean that weapon.
The spear Longinus, if it exists, would be an unknown Noble Phantasm that we can't comment on.

>>6321463

Almost certainly not. It's incompatible with anything magical, since the element its made of violently destroys Ether (prana) on touch.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 09:43:24 2010 No.6321514 >>6319880 Blut der shweister probably is weaker than Crystal Valley. It's a versus between the power of a derivative vampire against a true Aristoteles.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:03:24 2010 No.6321559

>>6321514
Wrong, Blut Die Schwester isn't related to Arcueid's power, just like Crystal Valley isn't ORT's own power. It's basically a battle between Earth and Mercury, so it doesn't matter if ORT is stronger, as CV is nothing more than a leaking of ORT's Mercury order. So, none of them would win as both the Earth and Mercury are equally old. Their powers will reject each other, like magnets of equal polarity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:05:24 2010 No.6321563 >>6321510 >Almost certainly not. It's incompatible with anything magical, since the element its made of violently destroys Ether (prana) on touch. No, Ciel stated in her route that the Black Barrel can permanently seal Arcueid.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Thu Oct 21 10:05:24 2010 No.6321564 >>6321347 But his is the drill that will pierce space-time.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:32:24 2010 No.6321610 >>6321559 Isn't Mercury older than Earth? ORT can also outlive earth.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:35:24 2010 No.6321614

>Blut der Schwester (Rank Unknown) - The magical essence of Arcueid's pact with her sister, Altrouge Brunestud, which originally held terraforming capabilities. Due to her involuntary Mad Enhancement, the effect manifests only as six times the normal gravitational pressure being placed against her opponents.SHE CAN TERRAFORM PLANETS!
Fucking Nasu, stop doing this fuckery. What's next? Shiki will lose all his limiters?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:36:24 2010 No.6321615 >>6321610 No it isn't, al the planets were born at the same time by the time of the Big Bang.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:38:24 2010 No.6321622 >>6321614 >The magical essence of Arcueid's pact with her sister, Altrouge Brunestud Lol, Type Moon wikia is making up bullshit again. That wasn't stated in her original profile.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:40:24 2010 No.6321625 >>6321622 Where can this original profile for this ability be found?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:40:24 2010 No.6321627 File: 16 KB, 158x189, You_Lost_Me.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6321615

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:45:24 2010 No.6321636 >>6321347 >Implying I said any of that Ea transports things hit by it a full power to before life existed on Earth, including Gaia itself. Thus, as Gaia doesn't yet exist, Arc can't draw power from Gaia.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:47:24 2010 No.6321644 >>6321622 In my opinion, the Type Moon wikia is full of people who pass their own interpretations in to the articles and mislead the poor fellows who take everything that is written down somewhere as a fact.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:47:24 2010 No.6321646 >>6321625 In the game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 10:51:24 2010 No.6321653 >>6321646 Yeah, so what the fuck does it say?

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:00:24 2010 No.6321674

>>6321653
[Noble Phantasm]
[Blut de Scbwester]
The contract of the blood sisters.
More like a property of hers, rather than a Noble Phantasm.
Her body, the touch of the Earth, terraforms her surroundings.
Therefore, in the moon cell which follows the laws of the moon, she causes a great deal of gravity load to occur.
Servants and Magi recreated by the rules of the moon cell are placed under 6 times the gravity when before her.

That is all. Nothing more and nothing less.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:23:24 2010 No.6321724

>>6321674
And yet it is true that even this effect has been downgraded to a shitty level. Heck, Arcueid can't even get her unlimited backup, which is now fully defined as raising her one class higher than her opponent if said opponent is strong enough to warrant it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:24:24 2010 No.6321725 >>6321724 That's only due to having a worthless idiot Master in the moon cell war.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:29:24 2010 No.6321743 She's not a fucking Servant. Fate/Extra is irrelevant. Even to Heaven's Feel itself. It's fucking dot hack.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:33:24 2010 No.6321764 >>6321743 >Fate/Extra is irrelevant Tell that to Nasu.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:35:24 2010 No.6321765 File: 68 KB, 800x600, Youlostme.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6321627

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:39:24 2010 No.6321773 >>6321764 Except Nasu has even said F/E is non-canon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:40:24 2010 No.6321776 >>6321743 The SE.RA.PH. War is pretty much unrelated to the Heavens Feels, in regards to both purpose and execution. What IS the Holy Grail in Fate/Extra, anyway?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:46:24 2010 No.6321788 File: 36 KB, 640x480, 1r9u.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6321773 It's not that it's "non-canon", but by the magic of parallel universes, you can ignore everything about it because it's not a part of the main universe(s).

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:46:24 2010 No.6321789 >>6321773 >non-canon >alternate universe Pick one.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:55:24 2010 No.6321803 >>6321773 No, Nasu has never said it's non-canon. Do you have the source of the interview? Plus, Fate Extra It's AU from Fate, but is still the same as Fate's universe until 1980.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 11:59:24 2010 No.6321814 >>6321725 Oh Arcueid, why the shitty luck?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 12:05:24 2010 No.6321834 >>6321788 You can perfectly ignore how people attempt to tack on BS rpg abilities to a character that's never been shown to hold or have that power in her regular canon. It's just what she used while IN that specific AU.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 12:20:24 2010 No.6321872

>>6321834
Nasu already said this timeline is basically the same UNTIL 1980s. Which means Arcueid is still the same 800 year old Arcueid. Which means whatever Nasu made for her in that game, it will be construed as part of her canon abilities. Because Nasu made this shit.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 12:20:24 2010 No.6321875

>>6321834
Because Arcueid has traveled to many different planets in canon nasuverse works amirite? Dude, that's a retarded argument and you know it, just because Arcueid has never shown that ability doesn't mean that she doesn't have it. Plus, that power is nigh useless on earth's ground, unless they show her fighting against ORT or someone with a RM, there is no way for her to show that ability.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 12:23:24 2010 No.6321881 >>6321872 It could be abilities that Arcueid gained or mutated after 1980, who knows? THE MAGIC OF ALTERNATE UNIVERSES

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 12:37:24 2010 No.6321925

>>6321881
Nonsense, that's not an ability that she might acquire, it's a sheer innate power. Also see>>6321875

>just because Arcueid has never shown that ability doesn't mean that she doesn't have it.

>Plus, that power is nigh useless on earth's ground, unless they show her fighting against ORT or someone with a RM, there is no way for her to show that ability.

Also, you seem to be forgetting that both ORT and Type-Venus have that same ability, the reason being that the Ultimate Ones are so powerful that they impose their own rules and common sense, a leaking of their alien order. Arcueid is no exception.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 12:37:24 2010 No.6321927 >>6321881 Or it could be that she already has it, which would be the simpler thing to accept. The other abilities that she is known to have do appear in her fact sheet. And it is made by Nasu. Occam's Razor.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 12:40:24 2010 No.6321932 You guys never get tired of this powerlevel faggotry? Well whatever is fun for you I guess.

>>	Freezing !I8PjSaya5Y Thu Oct 21 12:46:24 2010 No.6321941 >>6321932 u jelly?

>>	Suigin !fKazami5bE Thu Oct 21 12:52:24 2010 No.6321955 >>6321941 Jealousy is the fear of losing something to someone else. He can't be jealous since he isn't losing anything to you powerlevel fans.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 13:03:24 2010 No.6321974

>>6321872
>>6321875
Explain Shiki's ability to take down entities which she's been stated to only fight "evenly" against, then. Also, Kohaku's swordsmanship. Miyako & Hisui's fighting abilities. Akiha's, for that matter. Rin, Luvia, & Shirou going bare-fisted against any Servant that isn't Caster. And beating them.

Because Unlimited Codes and Melty Blood/ReAct/Act Cadenza/Actress Again are ALSO
considered canon. Or do you want to selectively disclude them like you're selectively including an rpg stat sheet generated by a moon computer?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 13:04:24 2010 No.6321976 >"evenly" "defensively"

>>	Freezing !I8PjSaya5Y Thu Oct 21 13:07:24 2010 No.6321982 >>6321955 I thought you loved ORT, suigin

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 13:09:24 2010 No.6321986

>>6321974
Nasu already said the MB is a different case altogether, since Arcueid's stats were lowered, and Shiki's abilities got limiter removed. Basically that would be the same for Unlimited Codes.

But even that is a different thing altogether. Abilities are not the same as having powerlevels match properly in canon. Arcueid has those abilities in canon. Whether it's balanced in other games is not the argument.

You're just setting up a straw man.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 13:10:24 2010 No.6321990

>>6321974
>Explain Shiki's ability to take down entities which she's been stated to only fight "evenly" against

She is the secret boss. Also, game mechanics =/= story mechanics.

>Also, Kohaku's swordsmanship. Miyako & Hisui's fighting abilities.

Tatari. And again, game mechanics =/= story mechanics.

>Akiha's, for that matter. Rin, Luvia, & Shirou going bare-fisted against any Servant that isn't Caster. And beating them.

Akiha is already powerful. And game mechanics =/= story mechanics.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 13:18:24 2010 No.6322005

>>6321990
The story mechanics detacte that SOMEHOW Rin overcame several Servants. Without backup or tricks. It's stating x yielded y with the help of n. But collectively we know this is bullshit because there is no n that would help x become powerful enough to fight against z to get to y.

But hey fuck it it doesn't have to make sense it's just THERE. This is what's being said about Arc's abilities. No one wants to own up to a moon computer saying screw the grail, i have internet power.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 13:23:24 2010 No.6322011 >>6322005 Abilities are there. They exist. They are canon because Nasu said so. Jobbing due to story/plot and several other shit due to story purposes does NOT make those stats disappear, they also do NOT make those abilities non-canon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 14:54:24 2010 No.6322283 File: 93 KB, 600x600, archerrape.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6319193 More like Archer Vs Gil is Batman Vs Superman. Gil Vs Arc would be more like Darksied vs Superman.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:02:24 2010 No.6322317 >>6322283 >Archer Vs Gil Is this even really debatable? Gil not using Ea loses, Gil using Ea wins.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:09:24 2010 No.6322356 >>6322283 Darseid is smart, Gil is too retarded to be like Darseid, and Arc is way more careful and smarter than Gil, even though she has better physical capabilities.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:23:24 2010 No.6322423

>>6322317
Everything is situational.
Archer spamming nukes from the horizon could certainly do it's work Giglamesh.

And even if Gilgamesh would survive to bring out his space ship, Archer wouldn't be out of the game immeadiately.

But yeah, Gilgamesh is Glgamesh.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:25:24 2010 No.6322436 >>6322356 Well, but Gil is more fuckable than Arc.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:33:24 2010 No.6322476 >>6322436 Only faggots like you think so. And too bad Gil is nothing more than a genderswapped flawed copy of her, just like all humans, as Arc is the original and perfect model of a human woman, Touko agreed don't bother her about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:41:24 2010 No.6322520 >>6322476 Suck it, arcfag. At least Gil isn't fat.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:46:24 2010 No.6322553 >>6322520 Arc isn't fat you retard, she just happens to have the most femenine and curvy body among all the TM females.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:48:24 2010 No.6322564 File: 139 KB, 530x746, Various 001 (427).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] You people need to calm down.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:50:24 2010 No.6322576 >>6322476 But Arc isn't the original. The reason they even have human form is to blend in.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:50:24 2010 No.6322577 >>6322553 >she just happens to have the most femenine and curvy body among all the TM females. I.e. she is chubby.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 15:58:24 2010 No.6322612 >>6322576 She was made acording to the original, modern humans have deviated far from the original, but the TA don't deviate because they are immortal.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:15:24 2010 No.6322695 >>6322612 >She was made acording to the original Why isn't she a negroid then? Or do the japs not believe in that stuff?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:19:24 2010 No.6322710 >>6322695 Same reason why Gilgamesh has blond hair and red eyes. In the nasuverse, the original model of humanity has golden hair and red eyes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:24:24 2010 No.6322731 File: 270 KB, 1600x1200, 1278506195513.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6322695 >he believes in this shit

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:30:24 2010 No.6322762

>>6322423
>And even if Gilgamesh would survive to bring out his space ship
>space ship
>Ancient Babylonian Spaceship

I'm speechless. I bet it is named Enkidu.
I also think that I should read that Fate/Zero stuff.

>>6322710
That is a good point. Can anyone provide falsifying arguments?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:34:24 2010 No.6322776 >>6322710 So there are no niggers in the nasuverse?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:35:24 2010 No.6322779 >>6322762 > I bet it is named Enkidu. It isn't. Enkidu/Erukidu are the chains that increase their strength in relation to the divinity of the target.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:37:24 2010 No.6322782 >>6322710 I thought girugamesh had red eyes because he is 2/3 god?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:40:24 2010 No.6322787 >>6322762 >>6322423 >Spaceship You have piqued my interest. Care to explain?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:41:24 2010 No.6322793 Gigglemesh isn't Gigglemesh unless he's invoking MONGRELS or WOMAN AND CHILDREN.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:44:24 2010 No.6322801

>>6322762
>>Ancient Babylonian Spaceship
>I'm speechless.
Yeah, but it actually got quite a but of stories and myths about it.

Even Alaxander the great has a story about him repeatidly searching for these ships around some kind of river, a river where he was sure he had seen these ships land in, and therefore he came back repeatidlt to search the surrounding area, even diving into the river itself repeatidly. Everyone thought of him as mad.

And that isn't even an old mesopotamian legend.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:46:24 2010 No.6322807

>>6321347
Are you stupid? I take it you didn't read his post at all.
Ea creates a temporary continuum shift (temporal space) around the target, dealing damage due to inflicting sub atomic (think quarks) dispersion to the target. Since the earth isn't formed in this rift, Acruied can't heal.
Also, when Gil used Ea, the waves travelled like 1/4 around the earth; if he used it at full strength, it might be able to destroy the earth (and himself, but whatever).

The fact of the matter is, Gil can easily beat Acruied in any form except Crimson Moon because Ea is probably one of the strongest NPs aside from Avalon; those are the two most hax ones.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:49:24 2010 No.6322821 >>6322807 KOHAKU CAN BLOCK EA. WITH A BROOMSTICK.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:52:24 2010 No.6322837

>>6322807
>Gil can easily beat Acruied in any form except Crimson Moon because Ea is probably one of the strongest NPs aside from Avalon

100% Arcueid would wipe the floor with Gilgamesh, so no. She wouldn't even need to switch to her Crimson Moon personality to kill him.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 16:55:24 2010 No.6322851 >>6322837 Yeah, that's what I'm implying because Nasu said so. Why so defensive of your God Mode Sue?

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:01:24 2010 No.6322878
File: 614 KB, 513x586, Girugamesh.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6322807
Ah, yes indeed. I have to check whether someone has already wrote a fanfiction in which Gilgamesh abducts Saber and co. (Shirou, Holy grail and that huge rune thingey), stashes them in his spaceship, destroys Earth with Ea, gets the fuck out before all those Counter-Guardians and Crimson Faggots can react, and colonizes some exoplanet.

There he will procreate with Saber and make golden haired babbys with red and green eyes, desu~ For some additional kicks he has taken Sakura and Rin with him so that they can form the basis of a slave caste with Shirou. Yeah, maybe he should take Rider, too. And Caster. Lots of procreation takes place, and Gilgamesh starts humanity anew, and is somewhat pleased.

Eventually weakened Arcueid will find her way to the planet. Gilgamesh will proceed to have babbys with her, too, to preserve the genetic variation of his master race.

I think this work would be tagged "sci-fi, crossover, erotic"

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:03:24 2010 No.6322887 >>6322878 The only person Gil wants to procreate with is Enkidu.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:03:24 2010 No.6322888

>>6322851
Gilgamesh can't beat Arcueid if she has full access to her abilities and not stopped by having to use 70 percent trying to suppress her killer self. Nasu never said that Gilgamesh beats Arcueid hands down, only that he's the only Servant that has a better than 50 percent chance of beating her when she's 30 percent.

And ArcheType Earth Arcueid isn't Crimson Moon.

Physically speaking 30 Arcueid is Gilgamesh's superior. She's not dumbed down like Berserker, she has much more variety in her attacks, she has Marble Phantasm.

She even reduced Roa to his ankles in a moment even when she was dying.

Don't tell me Ea can blast Marble Phantasm.

Marble Phantasm isn't another dimension. It's whatever Arcueid wants it to be.

Like a vacuum ripping someone into pieces right where they stand in an instant.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:06:24 2010 No.6322903 >>6322807 Arcueid can heal as long as the world exists. Ea is not like MEoDP. It does not sever Arcueid's actual connection to Gaia. It just wrecks Gaia.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:07:24 2010 No.6322918 File: 303 KB, 514x789, LIIEEEES.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6322887 But he tried to rape Saber twice, and that was only during the F/SN. Only Nasu and the Holders of the secrets of the Moonrunes can tell what happened during Fate/Zero.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:10:24 2010 No.6322936

>>6322888
>Gilgamesh can't beat Arcueid if she has full access to her abilities and not stopped by having to use 70 percent trying to suppress her killer self. Nasu never said that Gilgamesh beats Arcueid hands down, only that he's the only Servant that has a better than 50 percent chance of beating her when she's 30 percent.

Which is exactly what I said. Why are you repeating everything I say like a dog? I'm just saying Gil can beat Arc, and you start spouting redundant posts.

>Don't tell me Ea can blast Marble Phantasm.
We don't know of this yet. Considering it most likely works against a reality marble, it may work against Arc as well. Fact of the matter is, Gil can beat 30% Arc all day, erryday provided the right conditions.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:11:24 2010 No.6322945 >>6322903 You honestly believe that Arc's connection with Gaia isn't severed when she's superimposed in a reality where Gaia doesn't exist? I think you just ignored everything about Zelretch's Kaleidoscope in HF.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:12:24 2010 No.6322948

>>6322888
Arcueid with unrestricted power is basically the Crimson Moon. She would only ever have unrestricted power if she ceased caring about bloodlust.

Gilgamesh, when he feels like fighting for real, has access to numerous types of Noble Phantasms, all with horrifying abilities, all conceptual weapons capable of dealing harm to entities like Arcueid.

Roa (as he is now) wouldn't last one volley against Gilgamesh.

Ea is more powerful than Marble Phantasm. Marble Phantasm isn't "whatever Arcueid wants," necessarily, but whatever can exist within nature. Ea doesn't give a shit about nature. It warps space/time, blasts distorted reality, and is the Star of Creation That Splits Heaven and Earth.

Arcueid called out a fake Crimson Moon from the future.

Gilgamesh probably could've destroyed it.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:16:24 2010 No.6322964

>>6322888
>Don't tell me Ea can blast Marble Phantasm.

I don't think you know how a marble phantasm works. It's not a 100% entity that completely defies all physics; it has to work with Gaia in order to exist. If Gil can destroy worlds and technically realities with Ea, he can destroy a marble phantasm.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:17:24 2010 No.6322973 >>6322948 And before someone gets their panties in a twist about Ea's supposed power, it is the only NP with the designation "Anti-World." It creates a rift of the world before the world was even alive. Before Gaia even existed.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:22:24 2010 No.6322996

Zelretch swoop floor with Crimson Moon using Second Sorcery. IF Enuma Elish contains some of the potential of second sorcery, it is very well possible that it is possible to defeat even fully powered Crimson Moon Arcueid with Ea.

However, in my opinion Enuma Elish was more of a spatial and chronological dislocation than dimensional dislocation.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:22:24 2010 No.6322998 >>6322948 >Ea doesn't give a shit about nature. It warps space/time, blasts distorted reality, and is the Star of Creation That Splits Heaven and Earth. So why can't it kill ORT?

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:22:24 2010 No.6323003

>>6322936
>Fact of the matter is, Gil can beat 30% Arc all day, erryday provided the right conditions.

Not quite, 30% Arc can summon the Millenium Castle, she doesn't have bloodlust inside her castle. Do you know what that means right? If she summons her castle, she will reach 100%, Gilgamesh has no chance against her true power.

>>6322948
>Arcueid with unrestricted power is basically the Crimson Moon. She would only ever have unrestricted power if she ceased caring about bloodlust.

Not exactly, Arcueid was at 100% on the past, but her second personality wasn't always in control. So 100% Arc =/= 100% Crimson Moon Arc.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:25:24 2010 No.6323032 >>6322998 It probably can in all honesty.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:28:24 2010 No.6323052

>>6323003
>Do you know what that means right? If she summons her castle, she will reach 100%

It doesn't work that way. She can exercise the totality of her current abilities in the Millennium Castle, as it is a place created from nature, but she's no more powerful for it than she is capable of being at the moment. The only way Gil would possibly lose is arrogance, which means he would likely lose if he didn't recognize the danger she posed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:32:24 2010 No.6323068 >>6322996 Crimson Moon was taken by surprise (something Gilgamesh loves doing a lot) and Zelretch STILL got turned into a vampire.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:34:24 2010 No.6323081
File: 553 KB, 646x512, MilleniumCastle4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6323052
Do you realize that the only thing that restrains her power is bloodlust, right? That's her only constraint, inside the castle she has no bloodlust, therefore she can use her full power.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:34:24 2010 No.6323083 >>6322996 Canon and the character admits CM's takedown was a fluke. Also, how the fuck is this thread still going.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:35:24 2010 No.6323087

>>6323052
>The only way Gil would possibly lose is arrogance, which means he would likely lose if he didn't recognize the danger she posed.

What? The same Gil that dueled with Shirou without using Ea and his armor? The same Gil that lobbed couple of Noble Phantasms to the Dark Grail, turned his back to it and started strolling away?

I could never see that one coming.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:37:24 2010 No.6323097

>>6322948
>Ea is more powerful than Marble Phantasm. Marble Phantasm isn't "whatever Arcueid wants," necessarily, but whatever can exist within nature. Ea doesn't give a shit about nature. It warps space/time, blasts distorted reality, and is the Star of Creation That Splits Heaven and Earth.
Who cares?

Arcueid could still rip Gilgamesh in moments with it. It doesn't matter if Arcueid can't destroy Gaia with it. What matters is that Arcueid can kill Gilgamesh with it easily.

So what if Gilgamesh can kill Roa easily? Arcueid did it when she was dying and lacked the energy to pull off everything in her arsenal. Probably way below even 6 percent of her power at that time.

Ea cannot target Marble Phantasm the same way it can target other attacks or RMs. Arcueid can just envelope you immediately with it and shred you into pieces even before you move or grab another NP.

That's not to add to the fact that Arcueid is physically superior to Gilgamesh, has long-range attacks not counting MP that gives her variety, she could most likely rip Gilgamesh's arm off if they went into an arm-wrestling contest.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:38:24 2010 No.6323104

>>6323081
You're talking about an Arcueid that is created, nay, predicated on the idea that she has already given into her bloodlust. That is Red Arcueid, after all, an insane, bloodthirsty Arcueid. And she merely speaks about her abilities, not her overall level of power. She can act the easiest there.

I don't see how disproving the very idea you're talking about helps you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:38:24 2010 No.6323105 File: 37 KB, 804x604, 1236532024619.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] FINAL FORM

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:42:24 2010 No.6323121

>>6322945
>You honestly believe that Arc's connection with Gaia isn't severed when she's superimposed in a reality where Gaia doesn't exist? I think you just ignored everything about Zelretch's Kaleidoscope in HF.

Does Gaia exist on the Moon? Fate/Extra proves that Arcueid can exist somewhere the Earth has no hold because of her ability that acts like ORT's Crystal Valley.

And before you tell me that it's not canon, NASU MADE IT.

What Shiki cut was the actual connection, so that Arcueid was not receiving anything anymore from Gaia. What Gilgamesh does is destroy Gaia. Gaia is still there, Gaia's connection does not disappear.

Like when you explode a bomb in an area. Gaia is still alive in that place.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:42:24 2010 No.6323127

>>6323097
Marble Phantasm is something that makes an effect occur. It's not its own world. It's nature's tool, a tool of nature spirits. Ea is a Gaia-wrecking, giga-thermonuclear bomb. That's what it's designed to do. And it's rather hard to close range with a maniacally laughing Sumerian that's lobbing hundreds of C-A rank Noble Phantasms at you.

Unless you're Seibah or EMIYA SHIROU, as they're special cases. Even Saber has problems when Gil doesn't want her to be close.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:43:24 2010 No.6323132
File: 76 KB, 640x480, Oh, exploitable.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6323105
OF F*CK! WHY I DIDN'T PHOTOSHOP THAT "UNLIMITED SUSHI WORKS" PICTURE? JUST NOW WAS THE CHANCE OF A LIFETIME TO USE THAT PICTURE AND I HAVE RUINED IT. RUIIIIIIINED!

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:44:24 2010 No.6323143 How the fuck do you even pronounce Arcueid? Shit.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:45:24 2010 No.6323150
File: 316 KB, 646x512, Just 30%.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6323104
You seem to be forgetting that that bloodlthirsty Red Arcueid only had access to 30% of her powers, because the Tatari sucks, and he cannot control Arc's power. If the real Arcueid summons the castle, her power will indeed reach 100%.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:45:24 2010 No.6323154

>>6323121
>Like when you explode a bomb in an area. Gaia is still alive in that place.

Bombs don't distort space/time and impose the void of pre-creation on reality as they annihilate everything, utterly. But don't worry about unimportant details like that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:46:24 2010 No.6323158 /jp/ - Beast's Lair/General

>>	Ayashiro !Hime2512LA Thu Oct 21 17:46:24 2010 No.6323163 >>6323143 arukueido

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:47:24 2010 No.6323166

>>6323127
>Marble Phantasm is something that makes an effect occur. It's not its own world. It's nature's tool, a tool of nature spirits.
And that's why it cannot be targeted unless Gilgamesh aims at Gaia. A vacuum suddenly slashing you into a million pieces where you are standing isn't something that can be targeted because you'd be dead already.
>Ea is a Gaia-wrecking, giga-thermonuclear bomb. That's what it's designed to do.
Who cares? Marble Phantasm can kill him like a C4 that magically appears on his head and explodes.
>And it's rather hard to close range with a maniacally laughing Sumerian that's lobbing hundreds of C-A rank Noble Phantasms at you.
Right, because Arcueid is not physically superior to Gilgamesh and won't be shooting her own projectiles at him or won't be using Marble Phantasm on his ass from afar.

Oh wait, she can.

>Unless you're Seibah or EMIYA SHIROU, as they're special cases. Even Saber has problems when Gil doesn't want her to be close.
Yeah... but Arcueid has greater physical ability than either, and has the better versatility with weapons. Also, she isn't exactly hampered like Saber was because of Master Shirou.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:47:24 2010 No.6323173 >>6323150 Yes, you're right. I can't imagine why I wouldn't just accept an incorrect fact that has been pointed out to be wrong about 5 times now.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:48:24 2010 No.6323178

>>6323154
Oh right, that's why when Gilgamesh used Ea, it destroyed Gaia everytime he used it.

Oh wait, that never happened. And it's not like he's going to be free enough to use it when Arcueid's going to be pushing him hard enough with her own projectiles and Marble Phantasm.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:48:24 2010 No.6323181 >>6323143 Arukueido.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:51:24 2010 No.6323199

>>6323178
He doesn't even use half of its full power in any encounter he uses it. That's the point. Its full power is basically a world buster, which makes it hard to win a grail war, or have anywhere to rule.

People that like Arcueid are worse than the ones that like Rin, seriously.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:52:24 2010 No.6323206 >>6323199 He doesn't use it at full power so why the fuck are you even using it in an argument? Fucking Gilfags going I HAVE THE BIGGER CANNON, I WIN AUTO can't understand a bullet can fucking kill you with a headshot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:54:24 2010 No.6323212 >>6323206 Geez, you're not even trying anymore. That's disappointing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:54:24 2010 No.6323217 >>6323212 Right. You're the one who went ad hominem first, moron.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:55:24 2010 No.6323221 >>6323173 Lol, yeah, just keep telling yourself that. You are the first idiot that even dares to debate that fact.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 17:59:24 2010 No.6323241

Gaia will still exist even if Ea blasts through parts of it. What Ea destroys is the physical form like time-space and etc.

Ea does not sever the connection to Gaia itself like MEoDP does. MEoDP does not destroy. It denies the existence of what it hits. Ea just wrecks the shit out of it so much that it bends space-time.

Two different things.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:00:24 2010 No.6323244 >>6323217 Your argument is that a weapon which supersedes nature itself would be ineffective against nature itself. And that somehow Arcueid is capable of achieving full power when she isn't in fact capable of it. Your argument is flawed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:00:24 2010 No.6323245 File: 58 KB, 519x391, peace out.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >This thread.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:03:24 2010 No.6323264

>>6323244
Here >>6323241
Arcueid has the capability to reach 100 percent. But I'm talking about 30 percent Arcueid still being able to beat Gilgamesh.

You're talking to the wrong anon.

And yeah, an otherworldly weapon is still just a weapon. It can mess with timespace because of the pure destruction it can cause at higher charges, but it doesn't really sever the connection with Gaia like MEoDP can.

Also, you might have a bazooka, but if someone already shot you in the head with a derringer, you're already dead.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:04:24 2010 No.6323277 >>6323241 inb4 the moron says cutting timespace = cutting the connection to Gaia

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:06:24 2010 No.6323284 Can't we all just agree that Gil would make glorious blonde royal babies with Arc?

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:06:24 2010 No.6323285

>>6323264
MEoDP don't severe the link to Gaia unless used to attack Gaia. Application is key.

Ea is a weapon which annihilates everything, without exception, and existed before the world was even technically "born." There's no connection to Gaia to be concerned with when it's a weapon that doesn't give a fuck about whether Gaia exists or not.

It's literally the misapplication of Giga Slave. It has the capacity to return the world to non-life and destroy it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:10:24 2010 No.6323313 >>6323284 Agreed. Now let us wait a week and have this discussion again.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:16:24 2010 No.6323340

>>6323244
>And that somehow Arcueid is capable of achieving full power when she isn't in fact capable of it.

Now you just went full retard. See>>6323081
and >>6323150

She has means to access her full power. That's what her castle does. Seriously, you are saying that she can't access her full power without providing any argument even though the game explicitly states otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:18:24 2010 No.6323349 >>6323340 Just to make you rage a little more, MB isn't even considered canon.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:21:24 2010 No.6323372

>>6323349
The events aren't considered canon. But if you take the approach that "the powers shown in Melty Blood are noncanon", then you basically invalidate all the info Melty Blood gives us about them. For example, Melty Blood is the only material where we actually get to see Satsuki using her Reality Marble.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:23:24 2010 No.6323380 >>6323372 Except that her Reality Marble doesn't do what it does in MB, which sort of invalidates your entire point.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:23:24 2010 No.6323381 >>6323372 And the only ones where we see Kohaku builds an army of robot maid based on her sister.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:23:24 2010 No.6323383 >>6323349 Unfortunately, that's just your delusion. MB is a prequel of Sacchin's normal end, Nasu himself said it. And yeah, the original path is considered canon by everyone.... except by maybe gilfags.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:24:24 2010 No.6323387

>>6323349
>>6323372
Melty Blood takes place in the Nasuverse, therefore it is canon (and here's the important part) even if the events in it don't occur in the main worlds of Tsukihime, or the world(s) that lead(s) up to Tsukihime 2.

I think the only thing about Melty Blood that's truly "non-canon", so to speak, is the relative scaling of power, since it's a fighting game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:25:24 2010 No.6323393 >>6323383 >MB is a prequel of Sacchin's normal end, Nasu himself said it. I think you mean "sequel." And it's still not actually canon. >>6323381 I consider that more canon than any of the other routes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:26:24 2010 No.6323405 >>6323380 Because you couldn't implement what it actually does in the Melty Blood engine since there's no measure of mana.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:27:24 2010 No.6323406

>>6323380
And how do you know it doesn't do that? Is anywhere else stated what Arcueid's castle does? Are you Nasu's friend or something? That's what the castle does because it's stated in the game. If you don't like it, then that's your problem, just deal with it.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:31:24 2010 No.6323429

>>6323406
Because of the character material which explains that Depletion Garden sucks up all of the ambient energy of the area, making it effectively a dead magical zone.

It doesn't summon leaves, if that's what you're talking about.

Beast's Lair probably has higher level of discourse than this thread.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:33:24 2010 No.6323438

Ea at full power can split the heaven and earth and destroy existance entirely. And if we go by myth it might perhaps even have some creation powers.

Though it is said in the Nasuverse that only the divine can use Ea. Gil is 2/3 divine, so he can use it, but he can't use it at it's full power, though it's still enough to erradicate something like Africa out of existance, and if aimed at the earth he could certainly blow out Earth's core.

So at full power Ea certainly is an Anti-World noble phantasm, but Gilgamesh can't use it as such.
And even at the level he uses it, it's only a fraction of what he is able to do.

But that still doesn't really matter.
Even if Gilgamesh can't use it as an anti-world noble phatnasm, there still is no world within the blast of Ea.
Whatever Ea strikes is ripped apart from the world and the world is chanceless against it.
The blast of Ea is a void that is part of no world, and it seperates everything from everything.

>>	iRage !RAGEpq8/Ww Thu Oct 21 18:34:24 2010 No.6323447 ...after he spins it up for 10 seconds.

>>	iRage !RAGEpq8/Ww Thu Oct 21 18:35:24 2010 No.6323453 >>6323447 ...and I meant to quote >>6323438, apologies.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:36:24 2010 No.6323463

>>6323429
What the hell? Who's talking about Depletion Garden anyway? But, DG is Sacchin's Last Arc, the special effects of the LA must be flashy and cool. Also, did you forget that a RM is someone's internal world, meaning that is unrelated to Gaia, how do you know that DG doesn't look like that? And what the hell does this have to do with Arc's castle?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:40:24 2010 No.6323482 Thinking about it, doesn't Melty Blood still have a bit of a gameplay/storyline disconnect anyway? For example, the fact that Marble Phantasm only works in one specific way when you use it as an attack during a fight.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:40:24 2010 No.6323484

>>6323463
Depletion Garden IS Sacchin's Reality Marble. And Millennium Castle is NOT a Reality Marble. It's an effect created by Marble Phantasm. It's a place created by nature, where Arcueid is said to be able to act with the least constraints. The only Reality Marble Arcueid conceivably possesses is the one by which the Crimson Moon can be reincarnated into her.

That doesn't mean she's literally 100%, since she's using most of her power to suppress her bloodlust. Not to mention the fact that she's still recovering from getting shown various parts of her organs and limbs.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:48:24 2010 No.6323513

>>6323447
>...after he spins it up for 10 seconds.
He only charges it in the marvelous DEEN adaptation.
In the same way as how Avalon isn't some terrific reflector shield.

Otherwise it's a switch. Once it is on it's on.
And it is by no means slow even at startup.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:49:12 2010 No.6323525 [DELETED]

>>6323484
You fool, the Millenium Castle is a Reality Marble, it's just that the method that Arcueid uses in order to summon it is Marble Phantasm. Also, the MC was the RM of the original Crimson Moon that Arc inherited.

Millenium Castle Brunestud
千年城ブリュンスタッド

A castle created by the most powerful True Ancestor ever through the Marble Phantasm ability and not the original creation of Arcueid.
The first master of Brunestud has already been annihilated, but since then, those True Ancestors able to form it were treated as the royalty. True Ancestors, beings that have no concept of social stratification, call her the princess for this reason.

Also described in Tokuhon as being a Reality Marble. Further, going by the hanafuda game in hollow ataraxia, inheritence of a Reality Marble IS possible. A Reality Marble that's really the Crimson Moon's, manifested by using the Marble Phantasm ability?

http://tatari.byethost33.com/fuyuki/spells.htm#MilleniumCastleBrunestud

Also, Arc is the reincarnation of CM, that's why she has two personalities and both of them are Arcueid and Crimson Moon at the same time, if Arc (1) disolves or dissapears Arc(2) will gain full control of the body.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 18:53:24 2010 No.6323534

>>6323484
You fool, the Millenium Castle is a Reality Marble, it's just that the method that Arcueid uses in order to summon it is Marble Phantasm. Also, the MC was the RM of the original Crimson Moon that Arc inherited. And yeah, the game explicitly states that Arcueid has access to her full power inside the castle, because the castle suppresses her bloodlust for her, no bloodlust = full power.

Millenium Castle Brunestud
千年城ブリュンスタッド

A castle created by the most powerful True Ancestor ever through the Marble Phantasm ability and not the original creation of Arcueid.
The first master of Brunestud has already been annihilated, but since then, those True Ancestors able to form it were treated as the royalty. True Ancestors, beings that have no concept of social stratification, call her the princess for this reason.

Also described in Tokuhon as being a Reality Marble. Further, going by the hanafuda game in hollow ataraxia, inheritence of a Reality Marble IS possible. A Reality Marble that's really the Crimson Moon's, manifested by using the Marble Phantasm ability?

http://tatari.byethost33.com/fuyuki/spells.htm#MilleniumCastleBrunestud

Also, Arc is the reincarnation of CM, that's why she has two personalities and both of them are Arcueid and Crimson Moon at the same time, if Arc (1) disolves or dissapears Arc(2) will gain full control of the body.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 19:03:24 2010 No.6323578 >>6323534 > inheritence of a Reality Marble IS possible But Reality Marbles are the manifestation/a reflection of the user's soul... how does that work?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 19:10:24 2010 No.6323619 >>6323578 Not, soul, but internal world. Arcueid inherited it because she is the reincarnation of Crimson Moon. They have the same mind as well as the same internal world.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 19:11:24 2010 No.6323622

>>6323578
It's very possible that it won't work as natural as to the one who's world it originally was.

But I figure it would work out sort of like when HF Shirou had Archer's arm.
Archer's UBW differed from Shirou's UBW, thus he couldn't "use"/summon it. But he could still read it, and he could borrow it's deriative powers.

And I figure that the more aligned or attuned you are to the life or way of life of the world, the more you could draw from it or something.

And if you wonder on how to technically make it work, then I bet they would implement it into some magic crest of some sort, as they do with all their other magical stuff.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 19:25:24 2010 No.6323670 >>6323578 See KT, where a girl inherits Chaos' Lair of the Beast King. It makes me believe Roa would've got his Reality Marble back if stalled for long in Tsukihime.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 19:35:24 2010 No.6323709

>>6323534
It's not a Reality Marble. It's its own reality. Arcueid's only inherited RM is the Crimson Moon's, which was the capacity of reincarnation in any True Ancestor, a seed which would allow him to be reborn. A true Reality Marble would be something like Wallachia's, Nero's, or Shirou's: their inner world that imposes on the outside world. Case in point, Altrouge can summon the Millennium Castle, but it is not a Reality Marble for her. It's not a reflection of her inner world. The Millennium Castle is something that is summoned, not reflected out.

>>6323670
She doesn't have his Reality Marble, per se, as she is shown to be breaking down completely, as the chaos becomes true chaos. She is barely holding the mass together, and cannot maintain it. It'd be better to say that the mass that is Nero's surviving glob is living off of the last of Lair of the Beast King.

Dawn is also not written by Nasu, meaning it's not canon, so that's essentially not important.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 19:46:24 2010 No.6323755

>>6323709
Crimson Moon is already reborn, as Arcueid is the only TA were the CM can manifest, she is only waiting to get full control of the body.

>It's not a Reality Marble. It's its own reality
>Also described in Tokuhon as being a Reality Marble. Further, going by the hanafuda game in hollow ataraxia, inheritence of a Reality Marble IS possible. A Reality Marble that's really the Crimson Moon's, manifested by using the Marble Phantasm ability?

And yet, the quote in the Plus Perid book Tokuhon) and fuyuki explicitly says that the Millenium Castle IS a Reality Marble. Sorry, but Nasu's statements > your baseless assumptions.

>>	Minato Arisato !c4.MXvMVO2 Thu Oct 21 19:52:24 2010 No.6323785 Wait. Okay. He traces Shiki's knife. Does he get some mad Nanaya skills using it, or does it result in temporary MEoDP?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 19:57:24 2010 No.6323808 this thread gave me autism

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:08:24 2010 No.6323850 >>6323808 I'd give you an autism, if you know what I mean

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:15:24 2010 No.6323874

>>6323785
It's just as much of a reality marble as crystal valley.
It resembles a reality marble but it isn't quite one.

It is an innate boundary field, but it is no one specific's boundary field and it is no one's inner world.
Therefore it is different.

Reality Marbles are demonic in nature.
It is how their conciousness overwrites the world itself, imprinting their own world instead.
This is what demons of the nasuverse does naturally. Humans and other non-demons can also grow to gain reality marbles of their own, though growing to have one is not human, and such a path one that strays from humanity.

The Millenium Castle is a castle with it's own world inside. An innate boundary field made by Crimson Moon.
But no Reality Marble.

Is this wrong? Not that I really care, I am not the one you have been arguing with.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:18:24 2010 No.6323884 >>6323785 Was the knife ever said to have any special powers? Besides being able to do all it's bullshit even though it's only 10cm long.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:29:24 2010 No.6323928

>>6323884
No not really. Though it is insanely durable for pocket knife.

But their tracing reads the experiance and skills etc related to the object that weilders have used in order to weild it.

He would without doubt get all the Nanaya skills.
And at best he could possibly uncounsiously trace some lines in some crude way or something, though not likely.

Anyhow I don't see how it would in any way be as efficient as the outwordly and super sonic speed skills of the many heroic spirits of all times.
Other than MEoDP Shiki is still just human, so even with MEoDP he can't be meassured with things on completely different levels from humans.
Immagine Shiki as a human as the Wrights' plane or something, and MEoDP as a fantastic weapon.
Such a set up would still be vastly inferior to our best fighters of today that moves at many times the speed of sound many times over, and who still have among the best weapons we have, it can't be compared.
Then again, MEoDP doesn't work on otherwordly beings anyway, or beings without a self/core or that aren't real.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:30:24 2010 No.6323933 >>6323785 No. The knife is not special nor is it intrinsically related to Shiki enough to trace the experience. It might give him a bit of Nanaya Kiri's skill, if it was his weapon throughout his life, but that's unknown.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:34:24 2010 No.6323953

>>6323874
Dude, the Plus Period Book explictly says that the Millenium Castle Brunestud IS a Reality Marble. Meaning that it is Brunestud's internal world, and Arcueid inherited it because she and all the True Ancestors are also the Crimson Moon, while Arcueid is the most perfect clone of it. So, why are you going against what Nasu stated?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:35:24 2010 No.6323960 >>6323953 >the Plus Period Book explictly says that the Millenium Castle Brunestud IS a Reality Marble No it says that it is an innate boundary field. Take that as you wish.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:38:24 2010 No.6323968 >>6323960 I see what you did there.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:43:24 2010 No.6323982 Hasn't 固有結界 been used to describe the nature of Kiritsugu's 固有時制御 as well? I am fairly sure it didn't just say that it worked similair to one, I am fairly sure it said that it was one internally.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:44:24 2010 No.6323990 >>6323960 >Also described in Tokuhon as being a Reality Marble. http://tatari.byethost33.com/fuyuki/spells.htm#MilleniumCastleBrunestud You must be either a retard or a troll, maybe both.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:54:24 2010 No.6324026

>>6323785
the nanaya taijutstu (sensa, sensou) can only be done by a nanaya (due to how their bodies have changed over the years they are now more like a 4 legged beast the a human).

just as the kishima's taijutsu (dokkaku) can only be done by a kishima.

their techniques can be seen and understood but it's impossible to replicate unless you're one of them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:56:24 2010 No.6324041 >>6324026 Sure, but I don't think humans can strike a massive stone piece near mach 10 like a demi-god either.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 20:57:24 2010 No.6324046
File: 206 KB, 800x600, Fate Stay Night 118g.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6324026

Humans can't fight on the level of Heroic Spirits, either, but Trace allows him to very briefly replicate the skills of the true owner of the weapon.

However, it rips at his muscles for over stressing himself.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:00:24 2010 No.6324062

>>6324041
that's a technique. anyone can do it if they see it done and understand how to do it. to do their taijutsu you must literally be from the family. the techniques themselves were honed using the nanayas/kishimas strangeass bodies. as in an arm must be as good as a leg and so forth. the nanaya's suffered tons of weird mutations.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:02:24 2010 No.6324072 File: 23 KB, 786x480, FateStayNight437.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6324062 And Hercules is HALF GOD. Doesn't stop Shirou from hefting a massive stone slab with the speed and force of the strongest son of Zeus.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:04:24 2010 No.6324083 >>6324072 The sword moves by itself. And from what I understand from what he is saying the body must literally be mutated from a normal human (which came from the Nanaya incest) to do it.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:10:24 2010 No.6324116

>>6324062
It's not as if Gae Bolg and the likes or something like that can be weilded by normal humans either.
In the stories it was said how he who had grown up as a dog used his beast like legs and arms to throw the spear.

And while Herakles might have had the same bodily shape as a human (other than being twice as large and strength out of this world).

Shirou could most certainly do their techniques.
He might mess up his limbs some if his strengthening can't stop them from breaking, but otherwise.

Their ninja techniques might use their limbs in ways that would normally dislocate them, but physically it must be thousand times easier than Berserker's move.
And both of them strays the body.
I bet he could do them, I mean, him doing Nine Lives would have been seen as impossible normally, but he did it anyway even though it was impossible for his physique.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:23:24 2010 No.6324175
File: 105 KB, 798x704, Cirno.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Fun fact: During the Fifth War Arturia and Gilgamesh actually have bodies, and they can't turn into spirit forms as such.

This means that Shiki could kill those embodiments with ease. This leaves the physical stress of perceiving the lines of spiritual hosts and non-limiter Shiki -wanking out of the question. So, Shiki could "kill" at least the manifestations of those two servants, amirite?

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:30:24 2010 No.6324200

>>6324116
>Their ninja techniques might use their limbs in ways that would normally dislocate them, but physically it must be thousand times easier than Berserker's move.
And both of them strays the body.
.... that's like saying sinker's (ddd) arm or kizaki's neck would probably be easy to replicate since it is weaker then berserker. when kizaki's can do a full 360 and sinker's arm is so fucked up he has multiple joints to make things he throws change direction in mid air.

kiri was able to go from a standing in an upright position to under a table that should not have been been impossible to get under. and was still able to rip all the limbs of a body in that small space with a drumstick. makihisa couldn't even comprehend how that worked and started laughing in fear when he saw it happen.

there limbs are like fucking jelly.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:35:24 2010 No.6324218 >>6324200 Yes, and I believe it is easier to break limbs, forcing the to move in ways that they don't have limbs for, than to make them do things thousands times over their caliber in strength.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:51:24 2010 No.6324276

>>6324218
well, there's a difference.

one thing is impossible to do with their body (nanaya taijutsu, kizaki's neck, sinker's arm).

and the other moves just the sword at a speed a hundred times faster then it should.

shirou's projection during nine bullet revolver was actually nine different traces at once (the nine firing pins [how shirou imagines his circuit] each going off successively).

it's one thing for the sword to move by itself and force just the arm to move faster then it should. but it's another thing entirely if it moves the entire body in a way it shouldn't be possible for it to.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:57:24 2010 No.6324313

>>6324175
Probably yeah.
But Saber does have Avalon and Gil does have unlimited beam spam from dead children.

To wrap up this thread:
Arc fans are idiotic and ignoring Nasu's statement.
Gil fans are... arrogant.

Ea literally transports you into a different dimension as stated dozens of times earlier. Additionally, it is an anti-world noble phantasm, so aside from doing damage from Ea's own version of hell, it can also destroy the earth at full power. The dimensional superimposing aspect of Ea is logically able to sever the connection between Gaia and Acruied because Ea doesn't give a fuck about whether Earth is still alive in an alternate reality or not; in it's hell, Earth is not born and you cannot draw a link to the other realities (ie. the Kaleidoscope in HA is one of the only objects that can achieve this).

Furthermore, Arc's marble phantasm doesn't give her a distinct advantage over Gil seeing as Ea can naturally counter anything that Gaia summons, although this is not explored sufficiently to say. Additionally, he could easily beat Roa as well. In a natural fight that Gil isn't being a dumbass, he can beamspam all day and use Ea when needed; no, Ea does not have a charge up time as it is instantaneous. He may need to get into stance, but things such as 'drawing in wind' are a side effect of the physical form of Ea's attack, not it's true power.

Once you get down to it though, Gil could beat anyone, but never will because of his arrogance leading him to lose against a teenager, a slut, a black knight, and a king that should've been dead twice already.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 21:59:24 2010 No.6324322 >>6324313 Additionally, while Gil can probably usign the dimensional rift on a small scale (ie. 1 target), it is most likely impossible for him to apply that effect to the entire world because he is not fully divine (lolhatinggods).

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:09:24 2010 No.6324379

>>6324276
Muscles have limits.
The strength of Hercules is inhuman.
Perfect human muscles aren't even close to his.

And the sword only moves according to the technique, but Shirou is still the one carrying it out, if Shirou fails the technique fails. He just reads the information out of the blade and goes moves as if through an autopilot of his brain, and it feels like the weapon moves on it's own, but it's not as if the weapons are simply flying dragging him around with them.

To dish out strength over one thousand times greater than perfect human muscles can pull off, is by no means any less impossible than to extend one's elbow backwards while doing other stuff the limbs aren't made for, like dislocating a shoulder or whatever while still using it.

And Shiki's proportions are at least still right, the limbs might look different on the inside but it's not as if his arms were twice the length of his legs or something like that.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:10:24 2010 No.6324383

>>6324313
Except that Arc is a waaaay more difficult enemy than Berserker. Not only does she have the same physical stats as Berserker, but she can actually think and she always has a grasp of her situation. And also, if Arcueid switches personalities Gil is pretty much fucked, Crimson Moon Arc isn't as kind as normal Arc, she is cold and ruthless.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:13:24 2010 No.6324401

>>6324379
>And the sword only moves according to the technique, but Shirou is still the one carrying it out, if Shirou fails the technique fails.
In the Nine Lives scene he was doing nine successive Traces he didn't have to worry about fucking up as the sword was doing it for him. He should have been more worrying about his Circuits then messing up in the attack itself.

>and it feels like the weapon moves on it's own
No in the Berserker fight in Fate Shirou almost got killed after his Caliburn attack because he couldn't keep using Saber's skills. Then Saber grabs the sword and they hold it together.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:15:24 2010 No.6324408

>>6324175
A child could potentially kill a servant with an enchanted spoon or twig, given the servant doesn't resist.

Otherwise top ranked ghost liner class spirits are generally just too supernatural to be compared to natural beings such as humans.
And the only thing supernatural about Shiki is his eyes, and they don't help his physique. And the mutations from the inbreeding are still natural, just perhaps not entirely normal for humans.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:16:24 2010 No.6324412 >>6324383 Another Arc fan riding on her futa dick detected. Gil can beat normal Arc bro, you going against what Nasu said? Besides, I doubt Arc knows about Ea (lol Gaia) and it's not easy to counter even if you know about it.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:20:24 2010 No.6324433

>>6324401
>Traces he didn't have to worry about fucking up as the sword was doing it for him.
That is what I meant by autopilot.
The sword moving on it's own was just a metaphor. It's not as if the sword has any movement and acceleration of it's own. It's just that the sword moves unrelated to Shirou's consciousness, and therefore on it's own, but not by it's own strength.

>Shirou almost got killed after his Caliburn attack because he couldn't keep using Saber's skills
And yes, because even if the autopilot makes his body move correctly, it doesn't need to be able to, or being able to withstand it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:22:24 2010 No.6324447 File: 278 KB, 1680x1050, Disgaea_in_a_nutshell.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6324408 Are you implying: "child with an enchanted spoon or twig" > Gil > 30% Arc, no 100%, no Crimson Moon, Final Destination only (no Castles of any kind)?

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:26:24 2010 No.6324472

>>6324412
actually, Nasu didn't said "Gil defeats Arc", Just that 30% Arc (or more like 15% after the World regulates her power to slightly better stats than Gil) has bad compatibility vs Gil. You know like Gil's perfect counter it's Emiya. Do you think that Emiya would easily defeat Gil then?

It's like you all only read retarded dbz like shounen and ignore everything else that matters in real battle.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:30:24 2010 No.6324492

>>6324472
He didn't actually only say that he had great compatibility.

And while he didn't say that Gilgamesh would win, he said that Gilgamesh could fight Arcueid, and that he could win.
He also said something along the lines of how it is not weird for the king of heroes who the gods could not kill to be able to fight against arcueid.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:34:24 2010 No.6324522 >>6324472 No, he said that Gil could win against Acrueid but not all the time (because lol conditions). He could still beat her hombre. Better stop before you make a fool of yourself some more.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:35:24 2010 No.6324527

>>6324412
>Gil can beat normal Arc bro, you going against what Nasu said?

You just said normal Arc, but that's wrong, normal Arc is 100% Arc, as 100% is her true power. Gil can only defeat weakened 30% Arc. Gil doesn't have much chances of winning against weakened Crimson Moon Arc, let alone Arc at full power, Crimson Moon Arc at full power is definitely out of the question.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:38:24 2010 No.6324548 >>6324527 Normal Arc as in the Arc that is present in most media. You know what I mean, and the point still stands.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:39:24 2010 No.6324559

>>6324492
I'm not denying that he has the more chances to win a battle agaisn't nerfed Arc, but it's stupid to think that he would win 100% of the time because of all the facters it would be more around 60-70% chances:

Q. Whose stronger, Gilgamesh or Arcueid (30%)? While Arcueid has the strength of 4 Servants, I remember reading a scene in hollow where Gil was the equivalent of 5 Servants + a.
A. In the definition of Arcueid's strength, there's this thing where "her output can be changed in accordance with her opponent". As an absolute order taken from her backup, the planet, she is only allowed an output that is slightly stronger than her opponent. So. Single entity ability of Arc to a Servant is roughly the same.

Servants use their respective Noble Phantasms while Arc uses her unlimited backup to fight, and differences occur depending on affinity. A simple-is-best Arc is an all rounder, and so generally her chances of winning are only high, but there are those opponents that she just has helplessly awful compatibility with.

For example, in cases where even if the guy's stats are about the same as Arc, he has a ridiculously large number of weapons, and with high versatility. As the amount Arc is allowed to take out is based on "unit ability", against types like Gil-sama, well, you see?

And the 5 Servants + a is simply a comparison in terms of "firepower". Like with the "corpses", where each won't have to bother fending off attacks from foot soldier level opponents, the one who'd have the lead is the one who has the more weapons. In Broad Bridge, the reason why Servants excellent at one-on-one combat didn't stand out was because of this. Also, for normal Arc, she would get approximately the equivalent of 2 Servants single entity stats.

Arc 30% = 4 Servants stats.
Arc gets only 2 Servants single entity stats vs Gil, so Arc 15%

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:44:24 2010 No.6324604 >>6324548 Whatever bro, Arcueid has always had her Crimson Moon personality inside her, and she will not hesitate to use it in tough situations. There is no way she wouldn't switch personalities in a fight against someone like Gil.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:48:24 2010 No.6324636 >>6324604 So basically, you're saying that Gil can beat Crimson Moon Arc 60-70% of the time then since it's still a normal fight and Nasu said that he could win. Thanks for proving me right.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:54:24 2010 No.6324674 >>6324636 Gil has more chances (not total sure defeat, he can still die on this battle) to defeat a normal Arc working at 15% of her total power. Not something that he can brag about.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 22:57:24 2010 No.6324692

>>6324636
No, Nasu only said that Gil has good compatibility against Arc, nothing more and nothing less. He still has good compatibility against Crimson Moon Arc, that's obvious, but that doesn't mean he will win. You see, Nasu wasn't taking factors like the character's personalities, way of acting and all of that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 23:06:24 2010 No.6324751 >>6324692 He was, stop being in denial. Great, now I'm going to have to go get the quote on google somehow that stated that Gil could beat Arc, not that he had good compatibility.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 21 23:10:24 2010 No.6324790 >>6324751 isn't this >>6324559 you know, Nasu's answer to the Gil vs Arc question.

Anonymous Thu Oct 21 23:11:24 2010 No.6324792

>>6324751
There is no such quote, everything is here http://tatari.byethost33.com/fuyuki/totallyunofficialpowerrankings.htm And nowhere does say that Gil will beat her, just that he has good compatibility against her. And just so you know, Aoko has also been stated to have high compatibility against Arcueid, but even then her chances of winning are only 3:7.

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