Anyone else find this ironic when all of his games look like ass and FF14's environment is an endless copy-paste of the same polygonal models?

File: 63 KB, 489x186, OhKojimaYouRascal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:24:14 2010 No.6284323 [Reply] [Original]

Anyone else find this ironic when all of his games look like ass and FF14's environment is an endless copy-paste of the same polygonal models?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:30:14 2010 No.6284343 >>6284323 Maybe FF14 was made by westerner programmers.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:30:14 2010 No.6284344 I think his point is that western mainstream games tend to be mainly to showcase the graphics engine rather than to be a playable game.

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 05:33:14 2010 No.6284351 >all of his games look like ass The MGS games are usually among the best-looking games when they're released. MGS 4 still looks good despite coming out over two years ago.

>>	ZUN !barYV1VtIA Thu Oct 14 05:36:14 2010 No.6284366 Oh yeah MGS4 sure looks like ass bro. And westerners definitely do not have an eternal hard on for Kojima right.

>>	lotti Thu Oct 14 05:37:14 2010 No.6284368 >>6284351 >make the models and textures to carefully craft the world >models and textures >textures >mgs4 >area geometry (ie walls, floor) aren't more detailed than those of half life 1 fucking hypocrite much?

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 05:39:14 2010 No.6284378 >>6284368 Fucking hyperbole much? I notice you didn't say anything about the models, by the way, which still look excellent, especially compared to the horse faces most Western game characters have.

>>	lotti Thu Oct 14 05:42:14 2010 No.6284388 File: 198 KB, 1280x720, tgs-metal-gear-solid-4-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] oh shit such high quality and carefully crafted textures and models man

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:42:14 2010 No.6284390 >>6284378 Sudo, you're Italian. You must understand that you're genetically unable to grasp these kind of arguments.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:43:14 2010 No.6284399 Take your argument to /v/ you shitasses.

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 05:47:14 2010 No.6284419 >>6284390 Cool ad-hominem, bro. I've never even been out of the US.

>>	ZUN !barYV1VtIA Thu Oct 14 05:50:14 2010 No.6284433 That feel when a Western game studio needs 30 people to work on a game's soundtrack while the Japanese still produce a superior product with 1-2 people.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:51:14 2010 No.6284438

>>6284344

Sadly this seems to be the case of FF14 as well.

Seriously, why the fuck is there this obsession with graphics "realism"? Team Fortress 2 is just fine without grime on every surface. Half Life 1 is still better than most modern single-player FPSs. World of Warcraft has "worse graphics" than basically every other modern MMO and yet nothing else has even 10% of its subscribers. How about making a good game instead of focusing on pixel shaders?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:52:14 2010 No.6284442 >>6284433 That feel when you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:57:14 2010 No.6284469 That feel when Kojima is just talking a load of ass again.

lotti Thu Oct 14 05:58:14 2010 No.6284474
File: 358 KB, 1280x720, cryostasis2010070921391.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

here, have some cryostasis it was released at about the same time as mgs4.

it looks awesome
it plays awesome
it's not a movie

also:
>complain that western games are showcase of graphics and not gameplay
>make a game in which a gigantic portion is just prerendered cinematics
protip: cutscenes aren't "gameplay" either.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 05:59:14 2010 No.6284477 >>6284438 >How about making a good game instead of focusing on pixel shaders? They've gotta justify those big budgets. Also consoletards will buy games that look pretty, not games that are good.

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 06:02:14 2010 No.6284491 >>6284474 >movie Go back to /v/ with your shitty two year old memes. Also: >prerendered cinematics All of the cutscenes in MGS 4 are in-engine except for one.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:02:14 2010 No.6284495 File: 199 KB, 1000x1000, rumia cross.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284433 >>6284442 >>6284469 That feel when tanasinn

>>	lotti Thu Oct 14 06:05:14 2010 No.6284506 File: 206 KB, 1280x720, cryostasis2010070922035.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284433 If we're still talking about kojimas games, the mgs4 score was not even lead by a nip

>>	ZUN !barYV1VtIA Thu Oct 14 06:05:14 2010 No.6284507 >>6284442 That feel when Western devs could never animate something like Super Street Fighter 4 or Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and instead have to constantly rely on motion capture for the most simple things.

lotti Thu Oct 14 06:10:14 2010 No.6284518

>>6284491

yes really, you beat the game in about 20-30 hours. Out of those, 9 hours are cutscenes. Those "shitty memes" didn't come out of nowhere. When there's a game where you can pretty much miss <5% of the plot by only watching all of the cutscenes, it's pretty fit to be called a movie.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:15:14 2010 No.6284522 File: 686 KB, 1280x1440, 1227788317129.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284351 MGS 4 still looks good >implying MGS4 ever looked good

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 06:23:14 2010 No.6284537
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>>6284518
There are like five hours of cutscenes, if I remember right. Not really that bad for a 20 hour game. Most games don't even have stories good enough to warrant lengthy cutscenes.
>>6284522
>cherry-picking screenshots
>implying

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:25:14 2010 No.6284541 Snatcher had amazing graphics back then, what are you talking about OP.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:34:14 2010 No.6284559 >>6284537 >MGS4 >stories good enough Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 06:36:14 2010 No.6284563 File: 50 KB, 1024x576, [Nutbladder]_Arakawa_Under_the_Bridge_×2_-_02_[bd47f565].mkv_snapshot_23.17_[2010.10.14_06.18.53].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284559 Better than 99% of Western games that have come out since its release.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:38:14 2010 No.6284566 >>6284563 >99% of Western games All of which you've played, of course.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:38:14 2010 No.6284568 File: 3 KB, 102x128, adrian-pasdar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >playing games

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:38:14 2010 No.6284569 >>6284563 No story is better than a story that's simply batshit crazy and all over the place. Not every game has to be Mass Effect; some can be Serious Sam too. Doesn't make 'em bad.

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 06:40:14 2010 No.6284573
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[ERROR]

>>6284566
I finish 60+ games every year. If something has a good story, chances are extremely high I've played it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:42:14 2010 No.6284576 File: 36 KB, 470x470, 1271592626569.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284573 >60+ games >99% of all Western games released

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:42:14 2010 No.6284577 File: 408 KB, 2000x1240, BioWareFlowchart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284566 Who needs to play them all when they all have pretty much the same damn story?

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 06:43:14 2010 No.6284578 >>6284569 >batshit crazy and all over the place. That doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. Every loose end was tied up at the end of 4.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:43:14 2010 No.6284581 File: 73 KB, 640x480, 1263821721337.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284577 >who needs to play them all >image is referring only to Bioware you guys are really bad at this

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 06:44:14 2010 No.6284583
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>>6284576
Like I said, most Western games lately have shit stories. If it has a good story, it's very likely I've heard of it and finished it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:48:14 2010 No.6284585 >>6284583 >Like I said, most No... you effectively said ALL of them (barring 1%). You guys are REALLY REALLY BAD AT THIS.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:48:14 2010 No.6284586 >>6284581 Please, name another Western company that even TRIES to have decent stories. And if you say Halo or, perhaps worse, anything by Bethseda, then we're done here.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:50:14 2010 No.6284590 >>6284586 Bethesda does. Too bad they haven't actually made a game since Morrowind (Oblivion was developed by someone else, and accordingly sucked).

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:51:14 2010 No.6284591 >>6284586 I don't know any because I only really play Japanese games, lol. But there's no contradiction there, all I was arguing against was Sudo and co's shit attempts at putting their point across (hurr 60 games is 99%, etc).

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 06:59:14 2010 No.6284604 that's because FF14 was catered to you fucking westerners, in other words it's a casual FF11 and FF14 being shit is your fault

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 07:01:14 2010 No.6284607
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>>6284585
99% is "most." Take it any way you like it, Western games have shit stories. Name me some games with better stories than the MGS saga that have been released since 4.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:03:14 2010 No.6284611 >>6284577 I hope you realize that you could put every FF (and 99% of other jRPGs) into a similar table. gb2/v/ where retards like you reside

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:05:14 2010 No.6284614 File: 40 KB, 640x480, AreYouFrustrated.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284611

lotti Thu Oct 14 07:06:14 2010 No.6284615
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>>6284604
>ff14
>westerners
>weeaboos are known for eating up the kawaii uguu animu shit style
>they go westaboo style instead
>non-jp people can't pay subscription without having to go thru third party pay-assist sites
>they didn't even allocate enough resources to the EU/US webservers to handle the beta registrations
>catered to westeners

>>	ZUN !barYV1VtIA Thu Oct 14 07:11:14 2010 No.6284622 >>6284615 See >>6284614

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:15:14 2010 No.6284629 >>6284474 And the storyline is better without overacting cheesy characters.

>>	Your favorite Anonymous that lives in Ba.ngkok Thu Oct 14 07:20:14 2010 No.6284633 >>6284323 >>6284343 ff14 was made by chinese

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:21:14 2010 No.6284635 >>6284573 >60 games a year >50 hours per game >365 days a year >8.21 hours per day lol troll Then again, the op is shopped so...

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:24:14 2010 No.6284641

God damn it, stop using Metal Gear and Final Fantasy 14 to argue against western games, and then pick fucking Cryostasis as an example of "good game". That's like saying that one bad thing isn't as bad as another bad thing.

There are good Japanese AND Western games, why do you have to argue about this shit on /jp/?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:26:14 2010 No.6284643 >>6284635 >>50 hours per game You know that's not the case these days. Although I wish it was.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:29:14 2010 No.6284650 does anyone else hate it when you can look at an environment and it's really obvious that it was made in a tile based editor?

>>	lotti Thu Oct 14 07:29:14 2010 No.6284654 >>6284622 resorting to ad hominem due to lack of arguments doesn't quite work here, this is jp afterall.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:33:14 2010 No.6284658 Go back to /v/, all of you.

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 07:33:14 2010 No.6284660
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>>6284635
>50 hours per game
What year are you living in? Most games are 8-10 hours these days. Also, I'm a NEET, so I have unlimited free time to do whatever I want. If you're interested in seeing what games I've finished this year, check out this list from my Notepad file: http://pastebin.com/2Awp634s

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:43:14 2010 No.6284670 >>6284660 I don't really call a game that doesn't even last you the evening a game. It's more like an interactive movie.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:44:14 2010 No.6284671 >>6284323 >all his games look like ass Zone of the Enders.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:47:14 2010 No.6284675 >>6284660 And how many of them did you buy, you depraved thief?

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 07:48:14 2010 No.6284679 >>6284670 Out of the ones on my list, if you've read it, which ones would you not consider games? Mega Man 10 was probably the shortest, but I really don't see how that couldn't be considered a game since it has virtually no story segments.

>>	Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Thu Oct 14 07:50:14 2010 No.6284681 >>6284670 Looks like someone didn't grow up in the 80's. As much as I used to like long games too, it's ridiculous to say a game isn't one just because it is only a few hours long. Guess you don't consider Touhou games, eh?

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 07:51:14 2010 No.6284682 File: 404 KB, 1025x1461, 1286682202874.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284675 I bought all the PS3 games up to and including the Scott Pilgrim PSN game, and then Atelier Rorona as well. So 11, I think.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:54:14 2010 No.6284687 >>6284682 And no doubt you only purchased the PS3 games out of necessity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 07:59:14 2010 No.6284697 Why the hell would you play Dirge of Cerberus.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 08:02:14 2010 No.6284704 Japan: A us and them mentality. With an attitude like that I don't see how I can't laugh at them with shit like "we have the japanese superior art of beautiful environment".

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 08:03:14 2010 No.6284706
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>>6284687
I bought Rorona after my PS3 was already modded, because I like to support niche JRPGs. But other than that, yes, I pirated everything else. I don't see what that has to do with the topic at hand, though.
>>6284697
Why not? I liked FFVII and Crisis Core, and wanted to play the other game related to the franchise. It's not like it took very long, anyway.

>>	lotti Thu Oct 14 08:05:14 2010 No.6284710 >>6284671 I've only played the GBA one. It was pretty decent until you realize there's no tactical importance since you can dodge 99% of the shots by just moving the crosshair in circles along the edges.

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 08:12:14 2010 No.6284725 >>6284710 The GBA game is an SRPG. It's not even remotely like the PS2 games.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 08:32:14 2010 No.6284760 >>6284681 Cool story casual, I bet it's so much fun to wield that motion controllers huh?

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 08:48:14 2010 No.6284784

What the fuck does it matter

You play games for different reasons than you read stories. The story is irrelevant and if the story was good but the game shit it wouldn't make it any better as a game. It'd still be a shit game with a decent story tacked on the side.

If you want a good story then read a fucking book if that isn't too much work for your illiterate mind. If you want a good game then play a good game. There's not much to argue here.

>>	Your favorite Anonymous that lives in Ba.ngkok Thu Oct 14 08:50:14 2010 No.6284789 modern western games sure are bang for buck i finished mass effect2 in like 3 hours

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 08:52:14 2010 No.6284792 >>6284784 >The story is irrelevant Maybe to you. If a game has a good story then the gameplay is usually pretty good, as well. It's rare that this isn't the case.

>>	Your favorite Anonymous that lives in Ba.ngkok Thu Oct 14 08:53:14 2010 No.6284794 >western games >story wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 08:55:14 2010 No.6284798 >>6284792 >thinks a game's quality is dictated by its story >uses the term 'gameplay' Before I was suspicious that you didn't know what you're talking about. Now I'm certain.

Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Thu Oct 14 08:58:14 2010 No.6284799

>>6284784
What ultimately matters is that you enjoy it. Different people enjoy different things. Sometimes a riveting story can turn dull gameplay into something exciting. Bad gameplay sometimes actually contributes to the horror of survival horror games, and so some people actually complain when the gameplay is significantly improved from a pure gaming perspective. It all depends on what you look for.

This thread really belongs in /v/ though

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 08:58:14 2010 No.6284800
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>>6284798
>thinks a game's quality is dictated by its story
I never said that. I don't require games to have a good story to play them.
>uses the term 'gameplay'
What else would you call the process of manually controlling the character? Everyone uses that term.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:00:14 2010 No.6284801 Shitting assdicks I miss mid-nineties 3D Japanese arcade game music.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:02:14 2010 No.6284803 >>6284800 >Everyone uses that term. lol. Everyone does it, so it must be right. You sure are a luminary for /jp/. http://insomnia.ac/commentary/gameplay/

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:05:14 2010 No.6284808 >>6284803 >http://insomnia.ac >fucking http://insomnia.ac of all things

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:06:14 2010 No.6284809 >>6284803 >http://insomnia.ac I'd say "go to /v/" but even they know that site is garbage.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:06:14 2010 No.6284810 Funny how Japan still hasn't grown out of that "us vs. them" mentality.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:07:14 2010 No.6284813 >>6284808 >>6284809 Greentexting instead of arguing. It's no wonder you're not fans of insomnia. Stick to /v/ and GameFAQs if you like.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:07:14 2010 No.6284815 >>6284800 Controls?

>>	Your favorite Anonymous that lives in Ba.ngkok Thu Oct 14 09:08:14 2010 No.6284817 >>6284810 why do you think they die for their country?

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 09:09:14 2010 No.6284822

>>6284803
Why don't you cite a credible source? You've said nothing relevant. Graphics are part of the game, sound is part of the game, and cutscenes are part of the game. Those are not gameplay. Like I said before, what would YOU call the part of the game you actually participate in? The things that you do in the game, like controlling the character, executing tasks, etc.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:09:14 2010 No.6284823 God /jp/ has hit a all new level of shit lately, a new level of shit like none before. Literally is /a/ but slower.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:09:14 2010 No.6284824 >>6284813 If your only rebuttal is a link to some shady website, I see no reason to provide you with a more elaborate response.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:10:14 2010 No.6284825 Keep this shit in /v/. This shitpost is not /jp/ related, and you all know that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:12:14 2010 No.6284828 >>6284824 Watch out, he'll be stating that you are mad next.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:13:14 2010 No.6284831 >>6284660 How was the bookread on those vns in your list?

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:13:14 2010 No.6284832

>>6284822

You clearly didn't even read it. The point is that there's NO NEED for a word for that. "Gameplay" is redundant. To quote the article, you don't say a movie is good because it has "good moviewatch", even though a movie is comprised of many things -- music, art, script, etc.

There's no need to say it has "good gameplay". It's simply a "good game". And the reason is because it does those game-specific things correctly.

But anyway, if you're so persistent, I'd simply call them the "mechanics" of the game, which is far more fitting than the bullshitty vague "gameplay".

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:16:14 2010 No.6284837

>>6284832
AUTISM

Also, if you think gameplay stands for how responsive the controls of the game are you have NO IDEA the fuck what it actually means. Maybe if you hadn't grown up in the new millenium would you be more familiar with this old, tried and true gaming term.

Enjoy your "shumps"!

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:17:14 2010 No.6284838 >>6284832 Oh dear, you're a retard. "Moviewatch" is just another word for "cinematography." But OK, Lord of All Words, everyone should stop using a helpful word because you say so.

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 09:19:14 2010 No.6284842
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>>6284831
That's not even the same thing. Reading is a stand-alone term that's been in use for how many centuries?
>>6284832
I've seen the article before. "Mechanics" is as much of a blanket term as "gameplay" is, so that's not really a proper term either. What if the game has great graphics and sound, but has shitty "mechanics," as you so eloquently put it? Is it still a great game? The "mechanics" should be the core elements of the game itself. You're arguing over semantics.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:19:14 2010 No.6284844

>>6284837

>if you think gameplay stands for how responsive the controls of the game are

I don't.

>Enjoy your "shumps"!

Can't deny I enjoy games that are graded almost purely according to their mechanics. Enjoy your VNs -- let me know if you find any with good "bookread"!

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:22:14 2010 No.6284850

>>6284842

>Reading is a stand-alone term that's been in use for how many centuries?

As is playing. You use "reading" as though it'd be synonymous with "bookread", which would logically imply that "playing" is synonymous with "gameplay", ergo "gameplay" is redundant. Make up your mind.

>What if the game has great graphics and sound, but has shitty "mechanics," as you so eloquently put it? Is it still a great game?

No, it's a shitty game with great graphics and sound. What exactly is hard to understand about this? And in the same way, a shitty movie (bad script, bad acting etc) with a great soundtrack would still be shitty *as a movie*.

>You're arguing over semantics.

Yep.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:23:14 2010 No.6284853 I DON'T LIKE THE WAY THIS WORD SOUNDS AND I DEMAND THAT EVERYBODY STOPS USING IT! IT MAKES ME VERY ANGRY!!

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:24:14 2010 No.6284855

>>6284842
>You're arguing over semantics.
That's why I called him an autist. Or at least the writer of that article is, to get so worked up over a word that everyone uses and has used since the early era of video gaming.

He's like the /b/tard who comes to /jp/ and makes a topic "Why don't you talk about Japan if your board is called /jp/?"

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:28:14 2010 No.6284863

>>6284855

>That's why I called him an autist.

Well, the main reason you do this is in fact because you're a tool. I'm not sure when it was that it became trendy to declare semantics as being almost synonymous with "petty" or "insignificant" but it's an intellectual abortion. I'd like to see how you faggots would fare in a logic or quantum mechanics class -- look all those stupid semantics! Can't we all just get along and be vague?! lol, etc

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:29:14 2010 No.6284867 >>6284863 Hahahahahaha Oooh man... you're a riot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:31:14 2010 No.6284874 >>6284867 It must be all these semantics going to my head. Btw, while we're at it, why don't we just disregard the entire scientific and philosophical basis of Western Europe? Fuck, if they love semantics so much why don't they just marry it!

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:35:14 2010 No.6284886 if critics can use words like "mouthfeel" I don't see why we can't say "gameplay"

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 09:36:14 2010 No.6284892

>>6284850
>You use "reading" as though it'd be synonymous with "bookread"
No, it's not the same thing. Why can't you realize that?
>What exactly is hard to understand about this?
What exactly is hard for YOU to understand that "gameplay" has been in use for ages, pretty much since videogames became an industry? Gameplay is the part of the game you actually have direct involvement with. You can hate words all you want, but that doesn't mean they're going to be used forever. Deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:38:14 2010 No.6284896 >>6284892 >>You use "reading" as though it'd be synonymous with "bookread" Wait, so he actually thinks "gameplay" is just a synonym for "playing"? Is he retarded?

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:47:14 2010 No.6284917

It's a word. Who gives a shit.

New words are made every day. Old words change over time and get new meanings.

You can have a good game with poor gameplay. Deus Ex had fucked up shooting, omniscient AI and forced you to do boss battles even if you were aiming to make a stealth character. But the story, locales, music and the few gameplay mechanics it did right made it a classic. Is it a "good movie, bad game?" That's a stretch.

Final Fantasy Tactics. Broken as shit. But it has one of the most dedicated fanbases of all time. Not because it was a well-crafted, perfectly balanced game. It gave the player a lot of freedom, whereas most tile based Japanese shit is just generic "move and attack."

It's a word. It might sound stupid, but on the other hand, it allows people to see it and say "oh, I think I know what that means." Which makes it a better word than "cinematography" (moviewatch) or "narrative" (bookread).

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:54:14 2010 No.6284943

>discussing the term gameplay
hahaha owow sure is autistic today

Now listen faggot, take those filthy hands of yours off the keyboard and take a walk outside.

By the way, Japanese games have at least something called gameplay in their games unlike their western counterparts which are pretty much just cinematic bore-gallores aimed towards being babies first brown'n'gloom shuuta.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 09:57:14 2010 No.6284956 File: 62 KB, 370x278, you have violated the lol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >omniscient AI This is a problem that continues to plague games. Pic related.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:00:14 2010 No.6284957

>>6284892

Not the guy you've been talking to, but the problem is that it's a very vague term, unlike "mechanics".

Take for example a conversation I had a few months ago with Paul Eres of Tigsource. He mentioned that both my arcade shooters and Wii casual games are "gameplay heavy". The reason he said this is because neither games have heavy emphasis on plots, therefore they are "nearly all gameplay". I'd think I don't need to explain that there's a huge difference between Wii Sports and Musihime Sama Futari.

However if you change the term for a meaningful term, say, "mechanics", suddenly the statement he made is ridiculous. Nobody would say Wii Play and ESPGaluda II are on the same level of mechanical complexity.

This argument also applies to many of Sean Malstrom's works, which praise the "return to their roots" Nintendo made with the Wii not realizing the games they're making now are decades behind their best SNES games. Undoubtedly countless other games journalists and bloggers are also getting it wrong, because one thing you're right about is that the word "gameplay" has infected every gamer's mind for at least the past decade.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:01:14 2010 No.6284961 >>6284351 >MGS 4 still looks good despite coming out over two years ago. You are blind.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:03:14 2010 No.6284966 >>6284956 AI mods are mandatory. Fuck, a ton of mods are mandatory. Don't know how people managed on consoles.

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 10:05:14 2010 No.6284970

>>6284957
>Not the guy you've been talking to, but the problem is that it's a very vague term, unlike "mechanics".
I don't think it's needlessly vague. Gameplay is the portion of the game that you, as the player have direct control over. It's possible to elaborate on various aspects of the gameplay, so as to eliminate the vagueness, if needed.
>>6284961
I didn't say it's the best-looking game ever, just that it looks good. It's aged better than most games released in the same time frame.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:07:14 2010 No.6284977 >>6284970 Did you read what I typed? The rest of the post illustrated an example of the kind of dumb logical mishaps that occur every day due to the word "gameplay". It's defined by what it isn't, not by what it is.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:08:14 2010 No.6284979

>>6284957
What the heck are you talking about? Gameplay is gameplay. Western games have terrible gameplay mechanics because they are focusing on big budgets cinematic bore galores. Western developers arerelatively untalented and rely heavily on marketing, depiction of excessive violence and effects gimmicks to sell their games to the masses of underage dipshits.

Even PC games have terrible gameplay mechanics. See Diablo series. I bought Diablo 2 on Day 1 and the game is so absolutely shitty, it's beyond me how all those autistic faggots were able to play this game for years.

And no my friend, Crytek doesn't make game. Their products are just advanced tech demos.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:10:14 2010 No.6284982 >>6284979 now you're saying "gameplay mechanics". As if there were some kind of non-gameplay mechanics. You crazy, boy.

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 10:15:14 2010 No.6284999

>>6284977
I did read it. Gameplay can be described as being complex or simple, it needn't be referred to as mechanics. There are different aspects of gameplay, it's not necessarily a blanket term. The mechanics of Wii Sports and Musihime Sama Futari are indeed different, but the saying they are both gameplay-heavy is not wrong. I don't see why a handful of people are so fixated on gameplay being an improper word, when it's deeply ingrained into the gaming lexicon, and everyone knows what you're talking about when you mention it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:19:14 2010 No.6285010 File: 86 KB, 214x245, ahman.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6284982

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:21:14 2010 No.6285017 All that gameplay is, is this: >The actions a player is permitted to take to address the challenges ahead to achieve a goal.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:23:14 2010 No.6285025 I love icycalm and want him to impregnate me. I'm a dude.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:28:14 2010 No.6285040 >>6285025 Go to Shmups Forum and tell him. Oh wait, he got banned for being an insufferable faggot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:31:14 2010 No.6285047 >>6284323 That explains why Japanese 3D games are all ugly (esp RPGs). They should stick with 2D.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:40:14 2010 No.6285069 >>6285047 I would go a step further and say that all games should be 2D. I'm looking at you, Bioware.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:43:14 2010 No.6285075

>>6285047
Ugly? I don't think Demon's Souls or Valkyria Chronicles can be considered ugly. Even games like FFXIII or RoF aren't looking bad.

The Japs are tech savvy and they will able to close in no time in regards to the current level of visual presentation although that's not required to make good games.

By that time the western market will collapse because western devs won't have a monopole on the effects-addicts and casual crowd anymore.

Fear the moment when the Japs release a Monster Hunter on PS3 with state-of-the-art visuals. The endtime is near.

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 10:43:14 2010 No.6285079 >>6285047 Yes, Tales of Vesperia, Atelier Rorona/Totori, Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2(you can dislike the franchise, but it's a pretty game) and others are all hideous.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:46:14 2010 No.6285085 >>6285079 I hope that isn't sarcasm. A PS2 could run all of those games.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:49:14 2010 No.6285098

Gameplay according to /jp/ is:
>>6284800
>the process of manually controlling the character
>>6285017
>The actions a player is permitted to take to address the challenges ahead to achieve a goal.
>>6284979
>Gameplay is gameplay.
>>6284970
>the portion of the game that you, as the player have direct control over.
>>6284892
>the part of the game you actually have direct involvement with.

And not:
>>6284837
>if you think gameplay stands for how responsive the controls of the game are you have NO IDEA the fuck what it actually means

But nevertheless:
>>6284999
>everyone knows what you're talking about when you mention it

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 10:50:14 2010 No.6285103 >>6285079 You really need to get your eyes checked, and I'm not saying that as a troll. I supposed FFXIII would be perfectly doable on the PS2, as well. Graphics don't need to be photo-realistic to be good. Does art style mean nothing to you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:50:14 2010 No.6285104 So, uh, why is Nintendo the only company that can make good adventure games (Zelda series) and no other company even TRIES to copy that format? Never understood that. Do they realize they just wouldn't be able to make anything that compares?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:51:14 2010 No.6285106 >>6285098 >butthurt

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:53:14 2010 No.6285109 >>6285079 I should have guessed it from the name, but I am honestly surprised you are into Naruto.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:56:14 2010 No.6285120 >>6285103 Have you played Tales of Phantasia or Star Ocean? The graphics were actually impressive back then, while the 3D models are a huge step back.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:57:14 2010 No.6285123

>>6285104
There are 3D brawlers with better fighting. There are puzzle games with harder and cleverer puzzles (Zelda's have gotten easier).

What's so special about Zelda's format? (A mostly empty overworld with linear progression of dungeon missions.) There are free roaming games with bigger, livelier worlds.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:57:14 2010 No.6285124
File: 75 KB, 640x360, 31011117.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6285103

Pretty good artstyle, eh? Wish I could dig up the fuckloads of palette swapped enemies or cheesy special skill effects.

Compare this to a modern western game, like Just Cause 2. The Japanese need to stick to handhelds if they want to survive.

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 10:57:14 2010 No.6285129
File: 664 KB, 2000x2503, 1281641329362.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6285098
Cool quotations without bringing anything new to the discussion.
>>6285109
Who says I'm into it? I merely listed it as a good-looking 3D game. You don't have to like something to recognize an aspect of it that's good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 10:59:14 2010 No.6285134 File: 28 KB, 320x480, 1285601134857.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6285124 MFW you think Just Cause 2 was a good game

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 11:00:14 2010 No.6285142
File: 97 KB, 1280x720, [Nutbladder]_Arakawa_Under_the_Bridge_05_[45a6817b].mkv_snapshot_02.28_[2010.05.04_04.03.25].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6285124
>Cherry-picked, low-res screenshot of a mostly beautiful game
Nice one. I could find a shitty pic of pretty much any game if I cared enough.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:01:14 2010 No.6285143

>>6285123
>What's so special about Zelda's format? (A mostly empty overworld with linear progression of dungeon missions.) There are free roaming games with bigger, livelier worlds.
Yeah, and it is exactly THIS mentality why nobody but Nintendo can make good games.

You try to "fix" what doesn't need fixing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:03:14 2010 No.6285150 >>6285143 But Zelda went downhill after 3, so yeah.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:04:14 2010 No.6285154 >>6285150 Zelda 4>Majora's Mask>Zelda 3>Ocarina of Time>(I didn't play anything after N64)

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:05:14 2010 No.6285158 >>6285142 How about posting one good pic, instead? Because I'm at the end and have yet to see one decent 3D model or texture.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:07:14 2010 No.6285163 >>6285154 Oh wait, OoA and OoS were also pretty nice, but you could tell they weren't done by Nintendo. Oh yeah and there was Minish Cap. That was quite fun too, but I'd put all those below Zelda 3.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:07:14 2010 No.6285167 >>6285154 Why do you prefer the N64 games?

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:08:14 2010 No.6285168

>>6285143
What mentality, exactly?
Not seeing anything inherently holy in Zelda's structure? (My favourite was Majora's Mask. Fuck the haters.)
Wanting progress (bigger, more interactive worlds)?

Do you think your favourite Zelda game (which one is it, by the way?) is perfect? Do you think the action-adventure genre is now incapable of significant improvement?

>>	White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Thu Oct 14 11:08:14 2010 No.6285170 I wish I were a Janitor.

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 11:10:14 2010 No.6285178 >>6285158 I honestly don't care enough to. A lot of the game is 2D, but I merely used it as an example of a Japanese 3D game that wasn't ugly. I noticed you didn't dispute any of the other games I listed, by the way.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:11:14 2010 No.6285186 >>6285170 Meido apparently looked over this thread because the S@N thread is gone.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:12:14 2010 No.6285192 Modern Warfare 2 looks better then anything Kojima has ever been a part of.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:13:14 2010 No.6285198 >>6285178 If you think Rorona looks good then your other opinions do not warrant consideration.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:27:14 2010 No.6285243

>>6285123
Free roamers are shitty games while Zelda strengths lie in the distinctive design of the main areas in the game. Even the better than awful free-roamers would be nothing without specially designed missions.

It takes great skill and creativity to create a dungeon like in Zelda but no skill to create a free-roamer. Even Google Earth could be a seen as a free-roamer but I doubt it's any fun when perceived as a game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:28:14 2010 No.6285247 >>6285198 Cool underage opinion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:29:14 2010 No.6285248 >Kojima makes a perfectly sane and correct observation >thread turns to faggots having a faggotry contest in a record one posts Wow /jp/, you're so shitty it's almost impressive.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:32:14 2010 No.6285260 >>6285243 The original Zelda was all about exploration and setting random bushes on fire. You're full of shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:34:14 2010 No.6285269 >>6285247 You have to be underage to like 3D models.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:35:14 2010 No.6285270 >>6285260 Breaking News: Scientists from the Trolls R Us University discovered that Game series evolve

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:39:14 2010 No.6285285 >>6285270 When you say Zelda, people are going to think of the NES game.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:41:14 2010 No.6285293

>>6285248

I always honestly thought /jp/ was a better place for video game discussion than /v/. This thread proved me wrong. Not only the autistic insomniac guy, but people defending the graphics in budget Jap games? Guess I'll keep roaming the internet in vain for a decent discussion forum.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:42:14 2010 No.6285296 >>6285025 >>6285040 protip: he posts as "drunken starsailor" now.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:42:14 2010 No.6285299

>>6285167
I don't prefer them. But judging how the entire "experience" of playing the game start to end was for me, they rank highly, simply because I really enjoyed playing them. They are well-polished games. Good story, characters, world, action/strategy mix, music and visuals... it really immerses you into the game world.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:42:14 2010 No.6285300 >>6285285 Personally, I don't think so.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:44:14 2010 No.6285307 lol'd @ calling icy autistic, he clearly does have assburgers, or one of those personality disorders that is close to it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:45:14 2010 No.6285313 >>6285293 >defending the graphics in budget Jap games More like >not everybody is offended by the graphics in budget Jap games That's like your loss champion.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:48:14 2010 No.6285328

>>6285168
>Do you think your favourite Zelda game (which one is it, by the way?) is perfect? Do you think the action-adventure genre is now incapable of significant improvement?
Pretty much. A game like Link's Awakening but with a new story, cast of characters, and world and dungeons would be excellent in my eyes. It doesn't need to be 3D (although the N64 Zelda games proved to me that 3D CAN be good sometimes) and there are no changes needed to the core gameplay. What improvements would you make? Bigger world? We'd all like that, unfortunately bigger worlds in practice mean you get WRPG shit, where you're basically just roaming around in a big sandbox world.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:56:14 2010 No.6285352 But seriously. Why is this thread still here?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:59:14 2010 No.6285366 >>6285352 Because it's one of the best threads on /jp/ currently.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 11:59:14 2010 No.6285367 >>6285352 Because icycalm wills it.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:01:14 2010 No.6285372

>faggot argument about what "gameplay" means

Gameplay is the sum of the things you DO in a game, as opposed to the sum of the things you see (graphics) or hear (sound). All the actions a player can and/or is required to take in the game are that game's gameplay. How comfortable the act of playing is is called playability, though some people erroneously use gameplay as a synonym for that too (a game that's unplayable will almost necessarily have bad gameplay because of that, but a very playable game can still have bad gameplay for some other reason, such as inadequate depth).

If you can't comprehend this immensely useful term, that's your problem fucko. Most people intuitively grasp it the second they hear it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:02:14 2010 No.6285380 somebody bust out the aikido. or maybe I'll just spam S@N.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:04:14 2010 No.6285388 I only dislike the word "gameplay" because people think there can be a "graphics" vs "gameplay" scenario, games need consistent and decent aesthetic to go with the game's mechanics.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:12:14 2010 No.6285414

>>6285372
>Gameplay is the sum of the things you DO in a game, as opposed to the sum of the things you see (graphics) or hear (sound).
But seeing and hearing are also things that the player does. But I think I understand your definition. You mean the 'active' actions you perform. The player's movement, attacks, player-initiated-interactions.

So, not the actions other entities in the game perform (AI and all), right?

Say I have a strategy game, and I send some units to attack some suckers. I tell my units what to do, then just watch them shoot the enemies. So, this shooting is not part of 'gameplay'?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:12:14 2010 No.6285415 Bethesda > Japan

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:14:14 2010 No.6285427 >>6285415 I sure do love the Western equivalent of modern Final Fantasy games!

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:15:14 2010 No.6285429 >>6285372 >immensely useful term Okay, I've got it. Use the term in a meaningful sentence. If the sentence cannot be rephrased to remove it, without robbing it of meaning or beauty, you win. I put forward this challenge to one and all.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:17:14 2010 No.6285433 >>6285427 0/10

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:18:14 2010 No.6285435 >>6285429 The gameplay is good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:20:14 2010 No.6285439 >>6285433 0/10 all you want, the WRPG genre has been shit for 10 years now.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:21:14 2010 No.6285444 >>6285435 >The gameplay is good. The game is good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:22:14 2010 No.6285446 >>6285439 He most likely just likes first person shooters in general.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:22:14 2010 No.6285447 >>6285444 facepalm.jpg

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:23:14 2010 No.6285450 Is some fucking retard from /v/ really arguing about the term "gameplay"? Really? Why is this shitty thread even still here?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:25:14 2010 No.6285455 >>6285439 Enjoy being spoonfed a linear story with 0 replay value.

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 12:26:14 2010 No.6285460 >>6285198 Nor do yours. >>6285450 /jp/ - I'LL SHOW YOU WHO'S BOSS OF THIS GYM

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:26:14 2010 No.6285462 >>6285455 see >>6285427

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:27:14 2010 No.6285464 >>6285455 You say the same thing when you go to the movies?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:27:14 2010 No.6285467 >>6285455 Indie WRPGs > Bethesda Enjoy being spoonfed a linear story with 0 replay value.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:29:14 2010 No.6285473 >>6285464 Yes. Thats why I don't watch television.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:30:14 2010 No.6285477 >>6285467 > linear story > 0 replay value I wouldn't expect /jp/ to have the attention span to install other people's mods, let alone make their own.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:32:14 2010 No.6285486 This thread is an eyesore. Please delete it.

Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:32:14 2010 No.6285488

>>6285447
>>6285444
Try harder. All you're saying is you like the game, or some unspecified specific-to-videogames aspect of it. Next time give a sentence with some more context or a specific definition for the term oo.

Relying on specific definitions posted in this thread:
Gameplay as player/character abilities:
>I like the controls and actions available to the player.
Gameplay as to the temporal portions of a game where you're in control:
>I like the game (but not the cutscenes)
Gameplay as control itself
>The controls are responsive, the movement is fluid
etc. etc.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:34:14 2010 No.6285496 >>6285477 Mods are technically 3rd person and therefore independent, so I'm still technically correct, but why not play a game that started out that way?

Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 12:34:14 2010 No.6285497

>>6285455
Being non-linear doesn't inherently make a game better. Look at Oblivion. Lots to do, but the main quest was shitty and forgettable. I never even bothered finishing the storyline because I didn't care about any of the characters. Replay value doesn't matter to me anyway, since I pretty much never play games again once I've finished them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:35:14 2010 No.6285502 >>6285497 Autism

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 12:38:14 2010 No.6285514 >>6285502 Using the word "autism" automatically makes your post worthless. Good day, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way off.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:43:14 2010 No.6285533 File: 46 KB, 640x480, 1215255940021.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6285439 >Bethesda >WRPG genre

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:43:14 2010 No.6285534 >>6285514 assbergers

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 12:44:14 2010 No.6285538 >>6285534 Nope. I have depression and anxiety. Social Security agreed, don't bother them about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:46:14 2010 No.6285541 >>6285538 you will never hold hands with a girl 2d or 3d ;_;

>>	Sudo !Tohsaka8ks Thu Oct 14 12:46:14 2010 No.6285543 File: 655 KB, 800x600, maiwaifu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6285541 I have my waifu, so it's ok.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 14 12:47:10 2010 No.6285546 >>6285543 Get out of my thread.

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