UBW thread. The route, not the [spoiler]movie[/spoiler]. Why did Kotomine not do anything in this route? And why did Kuzuki kill Rider?

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Anonymous Mon Oct 4 23:51:46 2010 No.6235645 [Reply] [Original]

UBW thread.

The route, not the movie.

Why did Kotomine not do anything in this route?

And why did Kuzuki kill Rider?

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Mon Oct 4 23:53:46 2010 No.6235655 >>6235645 Because Lancer killed him. He hadn't done anything in Fate by that point either. Kuzuki tried to kill Shinji because he was an enemy master. Rider took the hit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 4 23:53:46 2010 No.6235654 Kotomine was too busy having Shinji carry out his plans for him. Also, note Lancer's line about Kotomine not liking to act in public or whatever. Kuzuki most likely killed Rider as he was probably closest to her when the Bloodfort went up.

White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Mon Oct 4 23:54:46 2010 No.6235663

I know what the movie lacked the most of.

Gigglemesh.

Why the hell isn't Gilgamesh laughing? Why isn't he hideously happy over everything? At most, he manages to look smug in every scene.

Why the hell didn't he burst out laughing when Shirou said he'd beat him? It completely lacked his attention to his own mirth.

>>6235660
Because Caster was buffing him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 4 23:54:46 2010 No.6235660 >>6235654 How was Kuzuki able to act in Bloodfort? He's got no magical talents.

>>	White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Mon Oct 4 23:55:23 2010 No.6235668 >>6235663 What the fuck is wrong with you? Reported.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 4 23:55:46 2010 No.6235667 >>6235660 Caster was probably keeping him reinforced all the time. Or something, fuck if I know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 4 23:56:46 2010 No.6235669 >>6235663 Most of the VAs sounded off for a good part of the movie as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 4 23:56:46 2010 No.6235670 >>6235663 What was Caster doing in the school at that time? Why didn't she react when Bloodfort was activated in Fate?

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Mon Oct 4 23:56:46 2010 No.6235671 >>6235660 Taiga was able to move too and she didn't even have the most powerful maga in the planet supporting her.

Anonymous Mon Oct 4 23:57:46 2010 No.6235674

Only really good part of the movie:

ONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONORE
ONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONORE
ONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONORE
ONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONORE
ONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREONOREOONOOOREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>	White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Mon Oct 4 23:58:46 2010 No.6235678 >>6235674 I wish the fight had been deserving of that line.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 4 23:58:46 2010 No.6235680 >>6235674 DEEN made up for their shortcomings by doubling the amount of onore lines.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:02:46 2010 No.6235693 Why didn't Gilgamesh just put his fucking armour on when fighting Shirou?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:03:46 2010 No.6235696 >>6235693 Pride. How could he know Shirou would whip out a Reality Marble and be able to close in? He most likely expected Shirou to be unable to keep up with the amount of sword-bullets as he slowly increased their numbers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:03:46 2010 No.6235697 >>6235693 Because he didn't expect Shirou to be a threat. When he finally acknowledge Shirou as a threat, he panicked, overreacted, and went straight for Ea. When he lost Ea (and his arm), the battle was over.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Tue Oct 5 00:03:46 2010 No.6235698 >>6235693 Because then he'd have won. His armor had withstood 8 direct hits by Saber. If he had it on, Shirou wouldn't have been able to cut off his arm.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Tue Oct 5 00:05:46 2010 No.6235702 >>6235697 Only because Avenger absorbed him at that point. If he had used e.g. Ekindu at that point he would have still won.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:08:46 2010 No.6235707 File: 245 KB, 800x600, Fate Stay Night 181a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6235702 He might've panicked further and tried to use Ea with his other arm, which presumably would also get cut off. We'll never know.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:25:46 2010 No.6235740 >>6235702 Ekindu shouldn't be able to work on Shirou, he's not a "god" or part "god".

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:26:46 2010 No.6235741 >>6235740 If Gil were to have it bind him in multiple places he'd be pretty much fucked though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:26:46 2010 No.6235743 >>6235740 It's still a goddamned chain with at least the strength of a normal one.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:29:46 2010 No.6235754 >>6235743 They were still in UBW though. He'd cut his way out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:30:46 2010 No.6235757 >>6235754 Shirou's whole advantage in UBW is that he could go faster than Gil could. Just by binding him, Gil would pretty much null that advantage.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:38:46 2010 No.6235783 Why not the movie ? They're related.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:41:46 2010 No.6235791

>>6235757
UBW was meant to provide Shirou weapons (literally just pick off the ground) faster than Gil can pull out of the Gate. Another important reason for UBW is to allow Shirou to trace NPs. Shirou can't trace Caliburn or Rho Aias without killing himself if it wasn't for UBW

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:41:46 2010 No.6235792 If Archer never learned how to use his true magic circuits, does that mean UBW Shirou will eventually be more powerful than Archer?

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Tue Oct 5 00:45:46 2010 No.6235811 >>6235740 Ekindu becomes more powerful when used to bind a divine being. It's still a noble phantasm when used on a human.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:45:46 2010 No.6235816 >>6235792 I'm pretty sure he already is. I mean, he did kick Archer's ass in UBW.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:48:46 2010 No.6235825

Indeed, Shirou can grasp his weapons faster than Gil can, as in UBW swords will INSTANTLY appear in his hands.
Gil is capable of using every of his weapons, however he's not a master or anywhere near a specialist for any weapon, whereas Shirou acquires the knowledge and experience of every weapon he projects.
In Fate, it is explained that the "son cannot defeat the father". If Shirou has Caliburn, Gil will simply use Gram, etc. Furthermore Shirou's projections are lowered in one rank. A weapon Shirou uses, Gil can overcome with another he has. However, Shirou can create his own original swords, as he projects from his mind, not copying.

However, even with these points, Shirou defeating Gilgamesh is plot bullshit.

Gil is not limited to swords. He could use lances, axes, etc. instead and fight Shirou with them, thus Shirou not able to copy his swords and their materials/abilities.

No matter how much experience and knowledge Shirou gains, he's still just a human and Gil is a Servant. Gil is still far stronger and faster. He could simply move to the side and kill Shirou.

But the strongest point for Gil is that he is not limited to only shooting GoB straight. He can open his GoB anywhere within his sight. From behind, the side, above, or even below his opponent. Easily, he could create an iron maiden of sorts and kill Shirou easily.

But no. Instead all we're given as an explanation is that it's his LOL PRIDE. Whatever, Nasu.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:55:46 2010 No.6235840 >>6235825 Well, it's an eroge VN after all. It wasn't meant to be taken this seriously. I'm sure Nasu regret what he made too, and probably would iron a thing or two out if he had the chance.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:56:46 2010 No.6235845 >>6235816 No. Archer let Shirou win because deep down all he really wanted was for someone to erase his doubts and reaffirm that his ideal was not bunk.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 00:58:46 2010 No.6235852 >>6235840 UBW is the worst excuse for an eroge ever, you don't get to pull that card here.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 01:00:46 2010 No.6235861

>>6235825

>If Shirou has Caliburn, Gil will simply use Gram, etc. Furthermore Shirou's projections are lowered in one rank. A weapon Shirou uses, Gil can overcome with another he has.

Wrong. That was Gil's delusion.

It's proven earlier in UBW that a derivative NP can be superior to the original NP. Archer, at least, acknowledged Gae Bolg to be superior to its original Gungnir.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 01:04:46 2010 No.6235867

>>6235825

>But the strongest point for Gil is that he is not limited to only shooting GoB straight. He can open his GoB anywhere within his sight. From behind, the side, above, or even below his opponent. Easily, he could create an iron maiden of sorts and kill Shirou easily.

While he's theoretically capable of doing that, he only does it ONE SINGLE TIME in all of Fate's history, and it doesn't work because an opening showed.

(Specifically: Fate/Zero, Vimana vs. F-15, he wraps a wring of Gate shots around the F-15 forcing it to go downwards into the tentacle beast, except it was sucked into Ionioi Hetairoi and Lancelot was able to escape.)

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:20:46 2010 No.6236270 File: 26 KB, 232x630, dark.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why does Archer finish Gil with a measly dark?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:23:46 2010 No.6236274 >>6236270 An Assassin's weapon. Fitting for finishing someone off by surprise.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:28:46 2010 No.6236281 >>6236274 It just seems out of place. Especially since it's a dagger. I think a better explanation might be that he didn't have the prana to "fire" the weapon, so he needed something he could actually throw. But I guess it doesn't really matter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:31:46 2010 No.6236287 >>6236270 dirk, not dark

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:32:46 2010 No.6236288 >>6236287 Go read Heaven's Feel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:34:46 2010 No.6236292 >>6236288 Go read Complete Material 2.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:35:46 2010 No.6236298 >>6236288 mirror moon mistranslated it. if you can provide examples of blades actually called "dark", please go ahead.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:40:46 2010 No.6236314 >>6236298 >>6236287 Dirks are scottish and made for stabbing. Darks are middle-eastern and made for throwing. And fictional.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:41:46 2010 No.6236319 >>6236298 That's actually Nasu's fail. Rho Ai-U-s is all Mirror-moon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:41:46 2010 No.6236320 >>6236298 Oh. I wouldn't have thought mirror moon would make such a mistake. Nevermind then.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:44:46 2010 No.6236328 >>6236319 Most people spell it Rho Aias nowadays anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 03:45:46 2010 No.6236334 >>6236319 he failed for using a scottish name for a middle-eastern knife, right, but dirk is translitterated "daaku" in japanese, I' m pretty sure he meant dirk to begin with.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 08:50:46 2010 No.6237035

>>6235861
No, it wasn't Gil's delusion. He's correct, but it's not a set-in-stone theory, as some derivative NP's have developed abilities, etc. to exceed the original as you said.

Gae Bolg exceeds Gungnir as a THROWING weapon, not entirely.

Another case could be Houtengenki. It has no specialties whatsoever, it's simply the first of it's kind that Gil possesses.

Gilgamesh is He Who Knows Everything. Calling him delusional is a mistake. He knows what he's talking about.
For the argument with the fight agaisnt Shirou, his Father-Son NP theory applies at least, as he proves it right there in Fate that Shirou can't go using Caliburn and defeat his Gram, Merodach, or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 08:52:46 2010 No.6237043 >>6235867 He does it when he fights Saber as well for lulz.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:09:46 2010 No.6237078

>>6235792
>If Archer never learned how to use his true magic circuits, does that mean UBW Shirou will eventually be more powerful than Archer?
Why so? Shirou never "learned" to use proper magic circuits either.
And to be honest don't think it's much of a thing to learn for them, because I don't think they have any "true" magic circuits to begin with.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:14:46 2010 No.6237090

The best voice acting in the entire movie was when Shinji started laughing all crazy and licked Rin while she was tied up.

That man is an amazing VA.

I also really liked the fight with Shirou vs. that guy that never talked (I've never read UBW so I don't know his name) where the guy beat the shit out of Shirou and Rin with his FISTS.

Movie was great, even though I had no clue what was going on.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:23:46 2010 No.6237115

>>6237090
So you never read the VN yet saw the movie?

Then, let me ask you this because I am actually a bit curious.
Didn't you umm.. find the movie to be utter shit?

I mean, it can be a fun movie for fans of the source material due to all the visuals etc, but as a stand alone I don't believe the movie could hold it's own at all.

Is it not kind of like reading the LotR trilogy, only that you start with The Two Towers without having read the fellowship, and then you skip 5 pages for every one you read or somehting like that.

I mean, they just jumped from scene to scene, starting in the middle of one, skipping previous scenes entirely, and then ending the scene before it's even finished.

Also, wasn't it weird for Shirou to just pop out Archer's swords from the middle of nowhere in the middle of it, with no explenation whatsoever.
There was little to no continuity between the scenes and they somehow managed to cut all the character developement, yet the movie went forward.
I mean, if you don't know anything about f/sn then I guess you wouldn't even know if Shirou can do magic or not.
It's also fun how out of place that scene with Rin and Shirou at the graveyard is, that's more or less the first time they really talked properly in the movie.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:26:46 2010 No.6237126

>>6235674
I agree.
ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:29:46 2010 No.6237138

>>6237115
I watched it because the movie was called Unlimited Blade Works and I think the chant is sweet

so yeah I was dissapointed there wasn't an awesome UBW chant scene with them saying the whole thing

i went in realizing I wouldn't understand a damn thing, but I still knew it would be animated nicely and have sweet fights

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:33:46 2010 No.6237145 >>6237090 Souichirou beats up everyone with his fists in the VN, he's good like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:36:46 2010 No.6237162 >>6237138 >>6237145 Oh yeah, about that. Did you understand that Kuzuki's (the guy who used his fists), was magicaly strengthened by Caster? Cause he just stands there and starts punching through swords and shit, with no explenation.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:46:46 2010 No.6237196

>>6237162
I understood that he held his fists weirdly and must have been very strong to bust through steel

I don't care where he got his power from.

It's like watching a disney cartoon and being like OH MAN HOW DID THE FAIRY GODMOTHER GET HER POWER TO TURN THE PUMPKIN INTO A CARRIAGE

you don't give a shit, you just know the bitch is magical and can do sweet shit

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 09:57:46 2010 No.6237229 >>6237196 Oh yeah. I guess one never even got the impression that he was a simple human.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 11:24:46 2010 No.6237396
File: 247 KB, 1920x1080, [Commie] Fate ⁄ stay night - Unlimited Blade Works [BD 1080p FLAC] [CC258DD6].mkv_snapshot_01.20.06_[2010.10.05_23.21.58].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

A high budget and high production and still DEEN cant produce something that is up to KNK quality.
I bet they spend all their money on Dolphin CG and even the ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE fight is a letdown.

It isn't really that bad but it wasnt mind blowing enough.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Tue Oct 5 11:39:46 2010 No.6237424 >>6237196 Disney never explained how many magic circuits the Fairy Godmother had. How am I supposed to understand that shit? >>6237396 Have you got actual figures on their respective budgets or are you just guessing?

>>	A Certain Magical !HOMOfybeOY Tue Oct 5 11:41:46 2010 No.6237427 Wake me up when there is an HF movie in the making.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 11:42:46 2010 No.6237429 >>6237424 Its a movie, not some shitty 20mins animu that is air in the middle of the night.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Tue Oct 5 11:46:46 2010 No.6237436 >>6237429 I thought the animation was quite good overall and even if there are some in-between frames that are rather poor they aren't noticeable unless you pause it anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 11:48:46 2010 No.6237439 I thought the animation was pretty bland for a movie. It had lots of bloom and shit but the actual animation was subpar for the budget this movie probably had.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 11:50:46 2010 No.6237448

I can't see how anyone who hasn't read the original would be able to follow or understand this movie in the slightest.

Didn't this affect their sales? Or are they confident in the number of people who have read f/sn in Japan to make them break even anyway?

>>	A Certain Magical !HOMOfybeOY Tue Oct 5 11:54:46 2010 No.6237457 >>6237439 >It had lots of bloom and shit Like the Anime!!

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 12:44:46 2010 No.6237605

I never reacted to this when I read the thing.
But now when I can't seem to remember.

Rin used her pendant so revive Shirou.
Shirou grabbed on to that pendant as he thought of it as a memento of his savior.
But then, what pendant is it Shirou knocks over from Rin's desk?

Is that Archer's? Did Rin know it was on her desk? Did Archer put it there without her knowing for whatever the reason?

Because if Rin knew of the pendant, and that it was Archer's, then Archer's identity should have been blantantly obvious from the start, in all routes.

Didn't she know?
Was it not Archer's?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 12:45:46 2010 No.6237610 >>6237605 She thought Archer found it in the school building.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 12:46:46 2010 No.6237614 What was the stuff after the credits all about?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 5 12:50:46 2010 No.6237635 >>6237610 Oh yeah, that was it. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever in the movie though. She just freaks over there being two of them.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Tue Oct 5 12:56:46 2010 No.6237652 >>6237635 You see her drop it and then Rin specifically says that she thought Archer retrieved it from the school building. I thought it was pretty obvious.

Anonymous Tue Oct 5 13:10:46 2010 No.6237691

Archer wanted Rin to win.
He was planning to betray Caster from the start.
He just used Caster in order to be given a chance to kill Shirou without taking all the blame, as well as getting rid of Caster afterwards.
Then they came and wrecked his plans.

Otherwise, he could have just Rulebreaked himself.
But he refrained from doing so at the start because he wanted things to flow nicely without giving Rin trouble.

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