/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[DeprivedGamer !!KyzgXsNP6Up No.]

I've seen some pretty funny fight game flowcharts in /v/ but does /jp/ have any for Touhou hisōtensoku?

[Anonymous No.]

At least four of them. Have a Suwako.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031882
>I'm the best
This isn't the Suwako flowchart, looks like my flowchart.

[Anonymous No.]

Sakuya - Throw Knives
There's ya flowchart.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031895
Are you Cirno?
Then it's not your flowchart. GTFO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031882
Makes me laugh everytime. Someone post the original.

[DeprivedGamer !!KyzgXsNP6Up No.]

>>6031882

>6B 6C

[Anonymous No.]

I know there's a Yukari flowchart. Somebody post it.

[Anonymous No.]

Should have saved them when I had the chance.

>>6031908

[Anonymous No.]

I'm going to laugh if people are implying that Utsuho is broken.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031935
>implying

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031951
her skirt has attack frames, too?

[Quagsire !BALDCFdFzA No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031935
Everybody in the soku topic says that she's a troll/scrub character. Such a shame, since she's my main. I used her before I even knew that she was an "troll" character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031974
Good players should know how to counter her. They are the scrubs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031987
She was really easy to beat pre v1.10. Now, her 5 cost spellcard damage on basic combos combined with an absurdly good unblockable anti-air and wakeup mashing to victory makes her rageworthy to fight. You have to give up on pressuring her and just wait as long as it takes for her to make a mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031974
>she's my main
Just like all the other scrubs who main her because mashing buttons wins you games.
She's top tier and unlike Patchy also in high-level matches.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031987
Yeah, the "good" players in those topics are usually douchebags anyway. Last time I played, I was up against an exceptionally good Remilia user who kept crouching up and down over my corpse after a win, almost as if to rub it in my face even further.

That's my main gripe with fighters, they always bring out the most smug mother fuckers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032007
don't forget her godly backdash that gets her out of any kind of pressure for free. Oh and that she's the only one with a 0-frame grazing dash attack.

[Anonymous No.]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF- the only reason I even used Utsuho was because the last I heard, she was only mid-tier!

Someone break out the most recent list so I can find a new main who people won't bitch at me for.

[Anonymous No.]

Okuu is a pretty broken character, her 5A is ultra fast, has enormous range and if you leave even a small hole in your blockstring, you'll get 5A'd do a 3k combo
I'm not even going to mention her 3A, you are retarded if you don't know how terribly good it is

[Anonymous No.]

>>6031987
This.
If you can't time a meaty in delay 8 to 10, then you are worth nothing.

[Anonymous !4changtcqk No.]

>>6032086
That's exactly what I do...

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032048
Utsuho
Yuyuko
Iku
Suika
Youmu
Patchy
Yukari
Tenshi
Komachi
Remilia
Reisen
Marisa
Reimu
Sanae
Aya
Sakuya
Alice
Suwako
Cirno
Meiling

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032048
Just pickup Alice if you enjoy losing games

[DeprivedGamer !!KyzgXsNP6Up No.]

>>6032048
I main Suika, what does that say about me?

[Anonymous !4changtcqk No.]

>>6032087
Nah, Remilia is top tier, and Alice is just above Meiling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032086
Alice isn't that bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032094
I don't see enough Suika players in the thread these days. It seems like most people jumped ship when she got loliball nerfed. I main Youmu myself and it's funny watching her get a nerf every single patch.

[Casual Anime and Manga Hipster !h/CUNT/w0w No.]

>>6032087
so Sakuya is low tier?

awesome

[Anonymous No.]

As far as I know, there's no official tier list for Hisoutensoku, only one made based on every single game in japan and a matchup chart
And there's that list that lists the best players, and the top one and I think third and fourth are Remilia mains
Care to elaborate, >>6032087?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032114
I don't get it either but that's what the winrate says.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032087
terrible fucking tier list. remilia is top 3 easily. tenshi isn't that high, sakuya isn't that low. etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032133
Win percentage by all players mashed together. Numbers from: http://tenco.info
I know there was one from the top10 players but the last one I have is too old.

[Anonymous No.]

More relevant tier list, because winrate means nothing, matchup grid is where it's at.
Based on your everyday japanese player, not only high-level play.
Slightly outdated, but whatever.

[DeprivedGamer !!KyzgXsNP6Up No.]

So what ever happened to that Yukari flowchart?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032233
It's nothing but parasol spin (623C). Didn't bother to save any Hisoutensoku flowcharts I've seen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032188
Typo in the chart: the second Sanae (last entry in each axis) should be Suwako.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032188
That's hardly any kind of difference for a fighter though. Only little bitches give any shit about tiers when they're that close.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032289
You don't make sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032087
>Suwako
>3rd from the bottom
SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS BULLSHIT

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032327
not many play suwako, so she has less total wins and is low on the list. probably the same reason remilia isn't top tier there.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

I could never really get into 12.3. When I started out, I played Cirno because she's the strongest (and my favorite character out of those in 12.3) but I kept losing so I figured I sucked and had no chance of getting better. Then my friends, lacking people to play against, convinced me to try again with Meiling, my second favorite. Same thing seems to happen.
Looking at >>6032188's chart, I now understand why.
This is why I will never play this game again.
What I don't understand is why my two favorite characters suck so bad.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032087
>>6032188
Simplified tier list:

Yuyuko/Remilia
Utsuho
Everyone else
Suwako
Meiling

Really, those are the only 5 that ever felt particularly imbalanced to me. Some others are slightly advantaged/disadvantaged, but not to the point that it's really worth worrying about unless you're a hyper tourneyfag.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6034824
Those matchups are still good and certainly winnable. Most of them are in the 4.5:5.5 range and that's pretty balanced. Nothing like Blazblue where you can get 2:8 matchups.

[Anonymous No.]

Does anyone have the Meiling flowchart? It was pretty funny too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6034838
Remilia doesn't belong in top tier in my opinion. Change her out with Iku and you're good.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6034897
Do... Does this actually work???

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032188
That table is worth very little, really.
Saying it is based on the everyday player is misleading as well.
It includes every matchup ever recorded by Tenco for Soku, from version 1.0 to 1.10, no matter who is playing.
There's no way to cull the data either, to improve it. Unless you have access to Tenco's database.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6034983

It's for IaMP, so not in Hisoutensoku, but yeah that gives a pretty good idea on how hard it is to play Alice

If you can't fall cancel your doll setups so well it's almost subconscious and can't virtually read your opponent's mind, it's almost impossible to play Alice. She is pretty goddamn low tier because almost all of her attacks are extremely high-risk low-reward

[Anonymous No.]

>>6034856
This one?

[Anonymous No.]

Tenshi anyone?
I play with Tenshi

Captcha: tifesula INFORMATION!

[Anonymous No.]

off topic, but some of you newfags probably haven't seen it.

[Anonymous No.]

bumping because of sageshits

[Anonymous No.]

Does anyone have one for Cirno?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032087
>Meiling
>low

;-;

Fuck you i'll still use her anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6035019
This one is so wrong its not even funny.
I thought these were supposed to make a little bit of sense for the character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6035011
>high risk low reward
So basically only Alice herself would enjoy playing as Alice.
Remember how she enjoys doing everything the hard way because everything else would be too easy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6035180
No, but I remember her being a coward who is so afraid of losing that she never fights with her full strength. Also a racist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6035157
Guy made that flowchart for v1.00, I believe. Before SDK was nerfed to infinity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6035157
Maybe this one will make more sense for you.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a place with good replays I can watch to try and learn how to not fail at this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6037787

I personally tend to just watch videos of Japanese tournaments. It may be hard to understand if you don't already know many of the fundamentals of the game, though

http://www.nicovideo.jp/tag/%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%E9%9D%9E%E6%83%B3%E5%A4%A9%E5%89%87

Particular things you'll notice:

Utsuho has a ridiculously high win ratio
Meiling players are few and far between
Even fewer people play Cirno
Even FEWER people play Alice
Only like one or two guys actually play Alice *well*

[Anonymous No.]

WAIT GAIZ! I THOUGH MEILING WASN'T BOTTOM THIS TIME. WHAT WITH THIS?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6032008
What.
I main her because she's a fucking nuclear crow who has a Mega Buster and throws suns at everything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6037912
I think it's either sawako or cirno

[Anonymous No.]

>>6037912

Personally, I'd rank her higher than Alice because Meiling at least has some specific circumstances where she can be pretty nasty. For instance, Meiling has great crossups, a nice blend of melee options, and she has some tricks that she can pull off with specific weather.

Alice, though? Ugh. The fact that every setup and trap Alice has can simply be grazed through, combined with the fact that supplementing her bullets with her melee is inherently dangerous on account of all her attacks having extremely long recover times *and* having that goddamn deadzone area inside all her doll-based melee attacks, results in a character that has a very hard time competing against any opponent that stays on his feet. If you can't get a knockdown or two, you can't set up your dolls without getting a graze attack to the face, which means you are fighting an uphill battle throughout the entire match. Alice is kind of like the inverse of Meiling, like that; Meiling has trouble closing, Alice has trouble dealing with people closing on her

Both are pretty awful and need buffs, though

[Anonymous No.]

Re-arrange by canon, and not by game.

Utsuho
Yuyuko
Iku
Suika
Youmu
Patchy
Yukari
Tenshi
Komachi
Remilia
Reisen
Marisa
Reimu
Sanae
Aya
Sakuya
Alice
Suwako
Cirno
Meiling

Reimu should be higher.
Yukari/tenshi are higher than You/pat/iku
tenshi/suika higher than yuyuko
anything else?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6037990
remi needs to be higher too.
man if this list is correct then they nerfed her like shit since the last game

[Anonymous No.]

>>6037990
>>6037990
Excuse me, but what the fuck are you doing? Yukari is one of the strongest people in gensokyo, if not the strongest, and reimu is stronger than marisa. Thats not canon, thats shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038029

He conveyed it in a poor way, but the list he has in his post is the current, by-the-game tier list. He was explaining alterations he would make at the bottom of his post, which ironically coincide with yours

[Anonymous No.]

>>6037990

'canon instead of by game' is a poor term to use, as it'll make people think you're referring to storyline power levels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6037952

Amen, brother. I only use Utsuho because she's RADIOACTIVE CROW WITH LASERS who has the best "I am totally a final boss" look since Mima.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6037990
I don't really think Remilia should go any higher, her C bullets got nerfed to hell, her B bullets are pretty terrible (I, personally, couldn't find many uses to it). Her overall comboability seems pretty bad too, but maybe that's just me.

I also think Meiling should be above Cirno. Meiling's 5C and 6C stop many things and her 6B and j.2B are pretty annoying, she has a great graze attack and her other 214 options are great for comboing.

Her default 623 is quick and has a great range when on level 1, her alt 623 (the punch one) is great for mindgames with it's weird hitbox that lasts longer than the animation, destroys everything on Diamond Dust.

Her alt 236 where she spins is pretty good for okizeme since it spreads lots of little bullets and it can do a very good damage if you hit it close (though it's most likely not happening). Her other 236 can absorb bullets from even spellcards and it does a lot of spirit damage (though it'll probably get grazed anyways).

Her default 214 gets insanely good at level 3 due to the small step hitbox, the C version goes pretty far and it's very easy to hit someone with it. Her kicking 214 has a lot of air combos and can be tricky sometimes with the C version. Her other 214's B version is extremely kick, even comboing from her 2A and you can cancel some spellcard after it for a good damage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038206

Her default 22 has some weird hitbox like her alt 623, but I think it's only at max level or something, it also hits low and can be used after a dial-a for mixups. The wave bullet alt is pretty quick and goes full screen, I kinda like it but it's not that great. Sky Dragon Kick got nerfed to hell, but it's a good skill nontheless.

What I like about Meiling is her great comboability, which in my opinion, Cirno lacks greatly (I dunno, I've tried Cirno but I just couldn't combo very well with her). She can make use of the Youmu System cards to combo a dial-a into another one multiple times and then into a spellcard or skillcard, or just once and then into a skill.

[Anonymous No.]

I just say use whoever. Although I'm becoming more of an indecisive faggot when it comes to characters...I'm focusing on Sakuya and some shrine maiden action, but use Meiling on the side. Then I added Youmu. And now Aya and Cirno. Fuck I gotta stop picking up new characters and get better with the ones I already play.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038209

There's nothing wrong with playing a variety of characters. It will help you get inside your opponent's head if you understand what their character is capable of

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038308

It is when I'm not proficient with characters I'm still learning. I have no idea how to play Youmu, and my Meiling is okay but incomplete when it comes to learning basics but I'm moving on to more characters that I don't have basics down with them. It keeps happening in most games I play.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038327

Ah, I see. Well, in that respect you are correct, but your constant switching is indicative of you simply not finding the character for you, yet

I started playing Hisoutensoku with Patchouli, then moved onto Remilia, then settled on Alice before I found a character whose gameplay I really enjoyed. Meiling and Sakuya are fun sometimes, too, but Alice is the one character I spend most of my time using. For as frustrating as she can be sometimes, those times where I get Doll Activation level 4 and manage to use 4 Patchouli system cards is pure awesome. FUCK YOU, THE ENTIRE SCREEN IS NOW DOLLS

Reisen is so tempting to switch to sometimes, though. Goddamn those neat looking illusions and mixups and oh god did she just use her dash attack on someone that was behind her fuck yes and

Uh, I forgot where I was going with this. Anyway, just switch until you find a character whose playstyle you like, then try sticking with her for a few weeks

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038470

I've already chosen Sakuya as my main go to kick ass character with shrine maidens in back. It's just that I like making that list expand and if I keep using my good characters mostly, then I stay bad with those other characters, but I can't just ignore who I'm good at and let them get rusty. I had the same problem in another game where I mainly used three characters but used another ten on the side.

[Anonymous No.]

I see no reason not to play everyone. I mean, I do have a main, but I play everyone a lot all the time, it's very fun.
I never understood this fixation people have that to improve they must stick with one character and only one, it's so boring to play someone that only knows one character.
Playing many characters gives you a handful of options and you discover many possibilities with every one of them.
Four decks for each character is great too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038703
Because people like to play fighters competitively, thats the point of them. I don't see how anyone could be so dense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038703
You may think its boring to only play one character, but when people play one character for so long, they move to another "level" of gameplay in which people that stick on random will never achieve. We call this, tourney fagging.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038726
>>6038740
I'm sorry I wasn't clear, but I am a competitive player and I believe I am pretty good too. Not japanese phantasm tier level, but I'm not even near bad. I can do blockstrings and know all bnbs and everything. I just play all characters.

It's stupid to think that just because someone plays competitively they can't have fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038762
>Competitive soku
>Fun

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038766
And here we have a person who doesn't know that having fun is subjective.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6038703

I like using tons of characters. Some I will never like, but I just don't play them. I don't mind losing, but it's not fun getting anal raped every single match because I decide to branch out too quickly.