Just reminding all the Umineko haters and Shkannonfags that in two weeks R07 will give you a big and long "FUCK YOU" when ep VI will be reveal to be an giant red herring.

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Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:48:02 2010 No.5817208 [Reply] [Original]

Just reminding all the Umineko haters and Shkannonfags that in two weeks R07 will give you a big and long "FUCK YOU" when ep VI will be reveal to be an giant red herring.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:49:02 2010 No.5817221 >VII fixed But I agree

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:51:02 2010 No.5817242 Red herring, right? Someone here doesn't understand the meaning of confession.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:54:02 2010 No.5817261 that pic always makes me lol

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:56:02 2010 No.5817278 >>5817242 It's better to just ignore those little pregame blurbs. They were just as useless in Higurashi.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:57:02 2010 No.5817288 Shkanontrice is as much a red herring as Jessica is straight.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:57:02 2010 No.5817289 >>5817242 and ep5 was easy modo and everything was solved right off the bat, right?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:57:02 2010 No.5817291 >>5817278 Yeah of course, everything that hurt your little world should be ignored.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:58:02 2010 No.5817298 >>5817289 Episode 5 was easymodo and episode 6 gave the answer of that episode textually.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:59:02 2010 No.5817300 >>5817291 "Confessions" need not mean that "you should take every single thing in this episode at face value".

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 17:59:02 2010 No.5817306 >>5817300 It also doesn't mean you have to ignore everything that doesn't suit you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:01:02 2010 No.5817317 >>5817306 Just wait until episode 7, Anti-Shkanonfags will be told. I kinda feel for them though, Shkanontrice as a concept is pants on head retarded. It's the answer, but it's still completely inane.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:01:02 2010 No.5817319 >>5817306 I'm not "ignoring Shkanontrice". I accept that it's a possibility, but don't like it and would rather look for a different interpretation. It could still go either way, at least until it's confirmed in red.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:03:02 2010 No.5817328 >>5817317 >It's the answer, but it's still completely inane. If it's inane, then why not try to look for an answer that isn't so stupid? Why did you just give up and stop thinking?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:04:02 2010 No.5817341 >>5817317 >Just wait until episode 7, Anti-Shkanonfags will be told. First, Shkannontrice fags have to explain how do you create 3 personality inside your head and kill everyone for no reason.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:05:02 2010 No.5817355 >>5817341 "Magic" and "love", respectively. Captcha: twisted setting. Oddly fitting, that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:06:02 2010 No.5817358 >>5817328 That's because people thought that they were able to come to ShKanontrice. It's like an equation, in the end there is only one true road and only one answer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:10:02 2010 No.5817389 >>5817358 Except we've been fed the "there are multiple truths" bullshit since Ep4.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:14:02 2010 No.5817421 Some people in /jp/ just have unwavering confidence in R07. They will hold the line against all Shkannon's heavy cavalry charges.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:14:02 2010 No.5817423 File: 56 KB, 640x480, catandbox.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5817389 1 truth, multiple truth can exist because Rokkenjima is a closed box

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:14:02 2010 No.5817426 >>5817389 The multiple truths IS bullshit. It's an impossibility for a mystery that long.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:15:02 2010 No.5817435 >>5817389 More like "multiple views on the same truth".

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:16:02 2010 No.5817441 >>5817421 Some of us actually read ep VI and didn't jump on their horse the moment Shannon and Kanon were talking to each other. I'm not surprise R07 insulted his fans, they don't motherfucking read.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:21:02 2010 No.5817484

>>5817426

And yet we keep being fed crap about the subjectivity of truth, over and over and over and over.

It's impossible to ignore or explain away at this point.

If "multiple truths" exist on Rokkenjima due to the catbox, then, well... isn't it possible that all theories are correct, and that there will never be any kind of resolution?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:22:02 2010 No.5817491 >>5817441 What's your alternative? Zero theory and "Erika doesn't exist" are just as, if not more stupid than Shkannon.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:24:02 2010 No.5817507

>>5817491

"Erika doesn't exist" actually makes quite a lot of narrative sense, if you ask me.

She acts exactly like a magic character, interacts with magic characters, discusses things only a magic character would be aware of, has those distinct blue magic-character-only eyes...

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:24:02 2010 No.5817510 >>5817491 See? You go straight for most obvious answer that's in front of you, you don't even try to think outside the box and neither you try to take the other episodes clues in consideration.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:29:02 2010 No.5817538 >>5817507 I've said all alone that there's something fucked up with her being there and the way she acts. But everyone just shut off their minds and >hurr controlled by meta character, doesnt need to make sense or be explained

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:30:02 2010 No.5817550

>>5817510
I keep posts exactly like yours but I never see a comprehensible attempt to explain these "more subtle" answers.

>>5817507
That has been discussed to death. The only way it can be true is if R07 disregard his own rules and all common sense in story telling.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:31:02 2010 No.5817555 >>5817538 >with her being there That's another thing. How the fuck did she enter a closed circle where the starting elements are always identical? It makes no sense.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:33:02 2010 No.5817564 File: 286 KB, 640x480, bomb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5817538 >>5817555 Because she was written into the story, morons. Or saved by many miracles, depends how you want to see it, the result is almost the same.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:34:02 2010 No.5817570 >>5817507 I agree. It has about the same amount of solid supporting evidence as Shkannontrice.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:35:02 2010 No.5817575

>>5817550
>The only way it can be true is if R07 disregard his own rules and all common sense in story telling.

What rules? Oh, you mean the red text?

Well, let's see. Note that the only time Erika is referred to as "Furudo Erika" is when her status as the detective and her adding to the person count is brought up. Therefore, I theorize that "Furudo Erika refers only to a magical character and is not a real person".

When her actions on the gameboard come up, however, she is only referred to as "Erika". I can then theorize that "Erika is the real name of another person, perhaps, say, Shannon."

There, I think that can cut through most problems with the "rules".

And common sense in storytelling? Please, Umineko has never had common sense in storytelling. Normal stories don't have scenes that are blatantly fake.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:37:02 2010 No.5817583 >>5817575 blatantly fake=/=metaphor

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:37:02 2010 No.5817584 >>5817564 Miracles don't exist and "writing someone into the story" makes no sense when you consider that the gameboard is probably a representation of a real-world scenario and thus has to remain internally consistent.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:39:02 2010 No.5817593 >>5817575 I think what he is trying to claim is that "Erika doesn't exist" has no narrative significance, but it can easily have some if Beatrice's existence is the same.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:39:02 2010 No.5817595

>>5817583

Although many fake scenes are, in fact, metaphors, some cannot be in any way representative of what happened.

Besides, even normal stories don't have a witch killing everyone and then go "oh lol it was a metaphor". Many storytelling rules don't apply to Umineko.

ERIKA !!rvelpwMesVU Thu Jul 29 18:40:02 2010 No.5817598
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I'm tempted to stick around /jp/ before it gets translated to see the Ep 7 spoilers for any truth in Shkanon (I'm fairly convinced Shannon = Beatrice is true, either way) but knowing Bern, it will not be brought up and I'll have ruined Ep 7 for myself over nothing. Ep 6 was still enjoyable despite being spoiled to most of it, but... not in the same way unspoiled episodes are.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:49:02 2010 No.5817636

>Miracles don't exist

That's why i said "depends how you want to see it".
And "miracles" exist in When they cry verse.

>nd "writing someone into the story" makes no sense when you consider that the gameboard is probably a representation of a real-world scenario and thus has to remain internally consistent

You are either too stupid or cannot read>>5817423

Schroedinger's box was jammed in your heads since ep III but you guys seem to not be able to understand it for some reason, and it's quite simple.

Rokkenjima is a big fat "?" and as well it's Erika's fate.
Just like you can have various stories/reality/kakera where various people die in totally different circumstances you can have a reality were Erika made to the island.

Of course, in the end only one truth exists, Erika was never on Rokkenjima.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:49:02 2010 No.5817638

>>5817584
The gameboard doesn't have to be consistent with the real event, only with the truth of Beatrice, whatever it is.

And Erika COULD have been on the island, that's why she could be written in the story.
You guys are fucking morons by the way, to still talk about the Erika doesn't exist theory prove you don't understand shit about Umineko.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:52:02 2010 No.5817660

>>5817595
What are you going on about? Unreliable narrative and metalanguage-like discussions about the plot are fucking old literary devices. None of that is out of storytelling rules as long as it is coherent and useful for the story itself. On the other hand, suddenly going "but this character who was a major force within the plot never existed" is going against storytelling rules, it would be much like "it was all a dream".

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:53:02 2010 No.5817665 The thing about Erika not existing is that it doesn't. Solve. Anything. It's just there for arguing for the sake of arguing.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:54:02 2010 No.5817677

>>5817636
>>5817638

If "Erika was written into the story", and "she was never actually on Rokkenjima, and is only a possibility", then doesn't that make her a magic character?

Plus, the "truth of Beatrice" is very probably "what actually happened on Rokkenjima".

Why is everyone so intent on taking everything completely at face value?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:55:02 2010 No.5817688 >>5817660 What Erika "saw" and all the red text of ep V-VI are "true". It's not like once the truth about her is revealed ep V-VI become mock.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:57:02 2010 No.5817703 >>5817677 It doesn't make her a magic character, only a fictional character, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. But Erika could be added BECAUSE AN ERIKA REALLY EXIST AND SHE DROWNED NEAR THE ISLAND DURING THE EVENT.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:57:02 2010 No.5817705

>>5817660
>On the other hand, suddenly going "but this character who was a major force within the plot never existed" is going against storytelling rules, it would be much like "it was all a dream".

So what the fuck do you think Shkanon is? I can understand saying "Erika doesn't exist" is bad, but not while also believing Shkannontrice. It's the same thing. Shkanon also forces a character to not have really existed as well.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:58:02 2010 No.5817717 >>5817705 ShKanon has been foreshadowed since the first episode. And disguise, crossdressing and DID aren't new to mysteries.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:58:02 2010 No.5817719 >>5817665 Yes, it does. It can be used to show how Beatrice doesn't exist either.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 18:58:02 2010 No.5817721

>>5817660

Unreliable narration, fine. That usually covers "deliberately misrepresenting events", but I've never seen a single story other than Umineko where a) a scene is presented to the readers and b) five minutes later the very same readers are told that "oh by the way that was a complete lie".

There's a difference between a character in the story lying and the story itself lying. I challenge you to present me with another story that does just this.

>>5817665

Because Shkanon can solve so much on its own, right? It raises just as many questions as it answers.

It is not the Uttermost and Final Truth everyone is convinced it is, even if it is true.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:00:02 2010 No.5817729

>>5817721
>but I've never seen a single story other than Umineko where a) a scene is presented to the readers and b) five minutes later the very same readers are told that "oh by the way that was a complete lie".

You never saw a mystery were characters lie?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:00:02 2010 No.5817732 >>5817721 ShKanontrice solve "mostly" everything fine. At least everything about the 2 days, some questions like the second Battler are still in the air.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:01:02 2010 No.5817746 >>5817703 If everyone is just a fictional character, then all the crimes really were done with magic. After all, anything is possible in fiction, right?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:02:02 2010 No.5817759 >>5817746 Anything is possible in fiction, that's why all the fantasy things happen. But it's not simply a fiction, it's also a game, one with a clear goal. You didn't forget that, did you?

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:02:02 2010 No.5817760

>>5817729

Read the rest of my post.

I've seen mysteries where characters have lied, but never another mystery where the STORY, the NARRATIVE, has lied. Big difference.

>>5817732
>ShKanontrice solve "mostly" everything fine.

No it doesn't. Show me something Shkanontrice can solve that nothing else can. You're just parroting things other people have said.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:03:02 2010 No.5817765
File: 2.49 MB, 960x2880, rosatrice.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

R07 sure puts a lot of effort into his red herrings.

Is "red herring" really a good enough explanation for the amount of evidence he presents to Shkanontrice? It's beyond a hint just being misinterpreted. Episode 6 says it again and again in terms that you can only call vague if you're in denial.

It's one thing to leave a hint that can be interpreted more obviously in a way that is false, but has another interpretation that is true. It's another entirely to scream THIS IS THE TRUTH THIS IS THE TRUTH THIS IS THE TRUTH THIS IS THE TRUTH THIS IS THE TRUTH ad neuseum for a whole episode, and scatter various hints in all others, then turn around and have all that be lies. Which is what R07 turning around and saying Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice aren't the same person would be like.

Nobody really has an explanation for the story elements of Umineko that fits better than Shkanontrice, except waving their hands and saying "red herring" or "troll". Where do the trolls and lies end? You'd have to gut a fair portion of the story for Shkanontrice to not be true.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:03:02 2010 No.5817774 Shannon != Kanon. Kanon is a girl who also has the personalities Beatrice and Erika. There, that should satisfy all of your crossdressing, DID, and Erika doesn't exist theories.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:04:02 2010 No.5817778 >>5817760 >Show me something Shkanontrice can solve that nothing else can. That isn't the question, fucking moron. ShKanontrice solve everything well, I don't care if you think your shitty theories can do the same.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:05:02 2010 No.5817781 >>5817774 It doesn't at all explain why Shannon is such a huge obstacle for Kanon, and why she needed to take in his incomplete soul in order to have a full soul.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:05:02 2010 No.5817782

>>5817759

But the fantasy things don't happen. Magic is just happy delusions inside the heads of incredibly messed-up people. That's the entire goddamn point.

The world of the gameboard, the world inside the catbox, has to be identical to reality as we know it in order for any of the human-side arguments to make sense.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:05:02 2010 No.5817785

Did all you people even read Ep5 and 6? Erika drowned that night close to Rokkenjima, body wasnt found. Since the events of those 2 days in Rokkenjima are a "closed box" no one can be sure she didnt take part on what happened there, so its just as plausible as any other "interpretation". Though it would take a miracle for a drowing girl to make it to the shore on that weather. And we do not have a Witch of Miracles there, no sir.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:06:02 2010 No.5817787

>>5817760
>I've seen mysteries where characters have lied, but never another mystery where the STORY, the NARRATIVE, has lied. Big difference.

That's the illusion of the witch= lies.

Kinzo in ep V pretty much explained it.

You suppose to use the only reliable point in that fog (Battler 1-4, Erika Ep v-vi and the red text) for clear it and discover the truth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:06:02 2010 No.5817788 File: 234 KB, 640x480, 1280426156.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Kinzo is culprit newfags, read the jap ver. ep7 today

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:07:02 2010 No.5817793 >>5817782 The magic side is here to make the riddle harder to solve and to show the innermost of Beatrice's heart. The human side has to understand Beatrice's heart, that's the point of the game.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:07:02 2010 No.5817794

>>5817778

You've stopped thinking and just accepted what was handed to you. If you did that back in Ep1 and 2, wouldn't you have just given up and accepted the existence of a witch?

Until Shkanontrice can either a) explain something that nothing else can or b) is confirmed in red, it is only a theory and not the Be-All-And-End-All Truth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:09:02 2010 No.5817808 >>5817794 I never saw your theories that solve the game as well as ShKanontrice does.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:09:02 2010 No.5817810 Ya, that's the thing that really bugs me about shkanontrice. R07 seems to give pseudo clues from HIS POV against it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:10:02 2010 No.5817817 >>5817810 Like?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:10:02 2010 No.5817818 >>5817765 when the scene with Rosa happen? I don't remember

>>	ERIKA !!rvelpwMesVU Thu Jul 29 19:11:02 2010 No.5817822 >>5817808 Definition check; what do you mean by 'as well as'?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:11:02 2010 No.5817823 >>5817787 Oh, I'm aware of this. I'm just saying that is isn't something that typical mysteries or stories do. >>5817793 Yes, and? Beatrice's heart, the truth, has nothing to do with blatant displays of magic.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:11:02 2010 No.5817826

>>5817794
Then even when Umineko is over it still won't be the truth to you.
>a) explain something that nothing else can
By that you mean explain a closed room, or other more tangible mystery that nothing else can. But the fact of the matter is, Shkanon already did this, but the reluctant fanbase thought and thought about holes they could exploit, decided they could ignore the rule about names in various ways, and devised an infinite number of solutions. This will happen for any mystery if the denial is strong enough. As for less tangible mysteries, there are many things Shkanontrice explains that no other theories do. Other theories just want to ignore them conveniently since they're fantasy scenes. But when the whole story of Umineko is a meta one, they're missing the point.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:11:02 2010 No.5817827 >>5817765 Or maybe Shkanon isn't the answer to Shannon and Kanon issue. Just saying

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:12:02 2010 No.5817830 >>5817822 I mean as well. Be it the red text, the narrative, the thematic, the various foreshadowings and clues provided. Nothing even come close to ShKanontrice as a theory.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:14:02 2010 No.5817843 >>5817808 Shkanontrice cannot, by itself, solve the game. It can only explain who and how, not why, and Shannon and Kanon being separate people can do the exact same thing. Any theory can do the same thing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:14:02 2010 No.5817844 >>5817827 If you have another explanation I'd like to hear it, but usually anything anyone comes up with seems more like an excuse than an alternative. People want to wait for a revelation without explaining what it could be.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:14:02 2010 No.5817849

>>5817823
It does.
The magic side is very important for Beatrice.
It's the world she escaped to, full of magic and where she can be a witch.
Maria's story is a paralel of Beatrice's story, there is a reason why R07 said that Maria was very important to Beatrice, it's the world they both created to run away from the harsh reality.

To deny it is to deny Beatrice's heart, that's not what the game is about.
The game is about understanding her.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:15:02 2010 No.5817852 File: 143 KB, 600x600, maiwaifubern.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >My face new yellow eyed guy on the new portrait >My face when the preview text says love is over and the harsh truth will be revealed >My face when all this points to Dine

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:15:02 2010 No.5817855 >>5817843 It can explain the why, you have enough clues.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:15:02 2010 No.5817858 GOD DAMN IT! KINZO CULPRIT WITH SHKANONTICE WORKING AS A HENCH-WO-MAN. KINZO WANTS DEATH SHANNON DOESN'T WANT EVERYONE DEAD. UMINEKO SOLVED.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:17:02 2010 No.5817871 >>5817818 Episode 2, "Devil's Proof" chapter. The servants tell Rosa about the story of Kanon appearing in the kitchen and killing Nanjo and Kumasawa, Rosa turns on them

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:18:02 2010 No.5817876 File: 329 KB, 640x480, 1278869996019.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'll laugh when the true mastermind will be revealed

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:18:02 2010 No.5817877 I'm not going to believe Shkanon because it is fucking stupid. Either that means I don't have love or maybe that means I do have love for Umineko and don't want it to be so shitty.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:18:02 2010 No.5817878

Funny thing is, there are some games (Ep4 and 5 come to mind) where Shkanontrice and the themes associated with it are hardly brought up at all.

If it were actually as important as people are making it out to be, it would have more story focus, you know?

Most likely, even if it is true, it simply isn't that important. It's a component of the mystery, but not THE ANSWER Ryukishi's spoken of.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:18:02 2010 No.5817882

People always seem to forget Dlanor telling Battler in EP5 that pieces can't do things that are out of character, regardless of whether or not the GM or any other meta character is controlling them. Not "shouldn't because it's bad storytelling", but "can't because it's impossible". If you see pieces behaving bizarrely and without motivation, you'd better come up with some hidden factor driving them that's backed up by clues, or otherwise accept that what you saw was false.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:20:02 2010 No.5817890 >>5817878 You are fucking kidding. Episode 4 and 5 were full of the themes associated to ShKanontrice, episode 4 was fucking chokefull with it.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:22:02 2010 No.5817900

>>5817855

Explain why Shkanon murdered everyone, then. Go on, explain, since you're so brilliant.

>>5817849

See. The weird thing is, falling into one's delusions and refusing to see reality is presented as a highly POSITIVE thing in Umineko.

Magic is delusion. Magic is a refusal to face what's real.

And if denying that will destroy Beatrice's heart, well then, I'll continue to deny it all the more.

No one should EVER be allowed to keep their head in the sand and refuse to wake up. No one.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:23:02 2010 No.5817903

Knox rule 5:
>No Chinaman must figure in the story.
Umineko Knox rule 5:
>(not included)

Knox rule 1:
> 1. The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow.
Umineko Knox rule 1:
>It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story.

Knox rule 9:
>The stupid friend of the detective, the Watson, must not conceal any thoughts which pass through his mind; his intelligence must be slightly, but very slightly, below that of the average reader.
Umineko Knox rule 9:
>It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions and interpretations be heard.

Knox rule 2:
>All supernaural or preternatural agencies are ruled out as a matter of course.
Umineko Knox rule 2:
>It is forbidden for supernatural agencies to be employed as a detective technique

Dine rule 11:
>11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.
Umineko Dine rule 11:
>The culprit must not be a minor character, and must have an adequate motive for committing the crime.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:23:02 2010 No.5817904 >>5817876 Sup Takano

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:24:02 2010 No.5817907 >>5817900 You have the answer to the "why" textually in episode 6. Read the monologue again. It's not a question of intelligence, you just have to pay attention

ERIKA !!rvelpwMesVU Thu Jul 29 19:24:02 2010 No.5817909
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>>5817876
Kyrie being the mastermind would make Umineko great even if Shkanon were true. For quite possibly the most intelligent person in the game, there could be no better position.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:24:02 2010 No.5817911
File: 152 KB, 679x1000, aaddd27a1cf39f00c04159847c241a6c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.

>11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:25:02 2010 No.5817914

>>5817878
It is a large focus of the story.
>Most likely, even if it is true, it simply isn't that important.
It is very important.
>It's a component of the mystery, but not THE ANSWER Ryukishi's spoken of.
Now this is true. It is only a part of the answer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:25:02 2010 No.5817915 >>5817890 My mistake. I meant Ep3. Also, I can't see how you can say Ep5 had anything to do with Shkanon(trice), however. The former two hardly had any lines.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:25:02 2010 No.5817916 >>5817903 >Umineko Dine rule 11: >The culprit must not be a minor character, and must have an adequate motive for committing the crime. wut

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:25:02 2010 No.5817917

>pieces can't do things that are out of character, regardless of whether or not the GM or any other meta character is controlling them.

I've even said something like this before, and I didn't need Dlanor to spell it out for me either.
But many people just refuse to listen.

Also, fucking captcha.
I keep forgetting about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:26:02 2010 No.5817923 >>5817907 >You have the answer to the "why" textually in episode 6. in the MAGIC scenes?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:26:02 2010 No.5817928 File: 73 KB, 652x342, ahaha.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] EP7 won't be the last one, right? ;_; VC: cackles insightful

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:26:02 2010 No.5817930 >>5817915 ShKanontrice is first and foremost about a person who escape from reality by creating new "persons" within herself. If you can't see how the thematic is followed in episode 3, 4 or 5, I'm sorry for you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:28:02 2010 No.5817940 >>5817930 Escaping in fantasy =/= creating another personality, no, TWO personality inside of you, and one of them don't even have a reason to exist.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:28:02 2010 No.5817946
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The true red herring in the story is Jessica. She's just a huge smokescreen to make you think she's Beatrice. Episode 2 pushes it so blatantly.

Look, he's Beatrice, she wants George and Shannon to get together, look at how she cackles
Then in the next scene - Look, it's Jessica, she looks just like Beatrice, she wants George and Shannon together, look at how she cackles.

In fact I think Jessica cackles five times in the same scene.

Ryuukishi later explains this by having Beatrice be modeled after Battler's ideal, which is similar to Jessica.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:29:02 2010 No.5817947 >>5817909 The REAL smart ones are the ones that people don't see coming. LIKE ASUMU!

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:29:02 2010 No.5817948

>>5817907

What, because Battler didn't bring her a pony? That's the worst motive I've ever heard of.

Honestly, I think one reason I'm so opposed to Shkanon is because Shannon and Kanon are terrible, poorly-written, overdeveloped characters. I wouldn't care if, say, Kyrie or Rosa had DID, even if it was cheap and stupid. It's just because it's a pair of annoying uninteresting teenage brats.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:29:02 2010 No.5817949 >>5817940 >Escaping in fantasy =/= creating another personality They are both linked, that's one of the most important theme of Umineko that has been there since EPISODE 1.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:30:02 2010 No.5817954

>>5817900
Magic is also imagination, dreams, the willingness to suspend disbelief. It has good applications as well as evil ones.

To claim otherwise is to become one of those people who complains loudly about sci-fi movies at the theater because there shouldn't be any sound in space.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:30:02 2010 No.5817956 Is number 7 gonna be the last or is there going to be an 8 too?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:30:02 2010 No.5817961 >>5817949 You can't create another personality, DID doesn't work like that. And Kanon existence doesn't even make sense. Escaping in a world full of unicorns and fairy... that can do.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:31:02 2010 No.5817967 >>5817956 Nobody knows. People only speculate based on Higurashi's episode number, based on interviews, based on episode 6's cover.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:33:02 2010 No.5817977

>>5817954

Ange is not a healthy person. Someone who talks to nine imaginary friends is not a healthy person.

Maria used Sakutaro and all her forest friends to pretend her life wasn't shit. (This is presented to us as a positive thing.) After Sakutaro died, Maria went completely insane.

You can't tell me magic can ever, ever be a good thing, especially if you depend on it to cope like every character in the story who believes in it does.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:33:02 2010 No.5817980 File: 142 KB, 480x640, 1249580910164.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5817948 >Shannon and Kanon are...overdeveloped characters. Haha what You just don't like them, that's all

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:34:02 2010 No.5817985 >>5817961 >DID doesn't work like that. Apparently it does in this story.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:35:02 2010 No.5817991

People still can't comprehend why that Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice duel CLEARLY revealed that Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice?! Let me spell it out: When characters have meta battles where the outcome for the loser is the death of that character, this is a transparent metaphor for the death of a split personality. This is simple logic, people.

Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice had a duel to the death, therefore Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice.

By the same train of logic, in Ep 2 or 3, Beatrice and Virgilia had that duel to the death, therefore Beatrice = Virgilia.

Throughout Eps 1-4 Battler and Beatrice duel where the outcome for the loser was mind death, therefore Battler = Beatrice.

Battler also duels with Ronove as Beatrice's stand-in at one point. Therefore, Battler = Ronove.

It's also been suggested that Ronove = Genji and Virgilia = Kumasawa.

Using these clues, it can be deduced that Kumasawa = Genji = Shannon = Battler. And George is Eva-Beatrice since they had a duel in Ep 6. Oh, and in Ep 4, there was a Gaap/George duel and a Jessica/Ronove duel, so Gaap = George = Eva-Beatrice, and Jessica = Ronove = VirGenShannonBattlerSawa. There are only, like, 10 people on the island. And in Ep 4, Krauss had a duel with a goat, so Krauss was the goats chasing after Rosa and Maria at the end of Ep 2. He wanted his gold brick back.

This is the Shkannontrice theory in a nutshell.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:36:02 2010 No.5817998 >>5817980 No, I don't. And, yes, that is because they consume screen time that could, instead, be given to characters who are genuinely interesting. I find overblown teen drama to be incredibly boring, sorry.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:37:02 2010 No.5818004 >>5817991 >death of that character, this is a transparent metaphor for the death of a split personality. This is simple logic, people. Not really, DID and personalities cannot die.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:37:02 2010 No.5818006 >>5817991 I don't know whether it's funny or pathetic because I don't know whether you're intentionally misrepresenting the facts or whether you just lack reading comprehension.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:37:02 2010 No.5818008 >>5817991 Thank you, Anon. Thank you so much.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:38:02 2010 No.5818014 >>5818004 Well, to "kill" a separate personality of a person with DID involves years of therapy and counseling. It's not a switch people can just turn on and off at will.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:39:02 2010 No.5818017 >>5818006 >>5818004 He's mocking Shkanontrice, you autists.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:39:02 2010 No.5818018 >>5817991 >Krauss had a duel with a goat, so Krauss was the goats chasing after Rosa and Maria at the end of Ep 2. He wanted his gold brick back. This is golden, anonymous. You are golden. You are Kinzo's gold.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:39:02 2010 No.5818021 File: 101 KB, 533x698, 1267641821609.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Since you guys hate Shannon, who do you want as the culprit mastermind?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:40:02 2010 No.5818027 >>5818021 Hideyoshi and/or George is probably most likely.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:40:02 2010 No.5818030 more like in two weeks people will realize there's no great red herring and umineko isn't worth their time.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:41:02 2010 No.5818033 The way Shkannon works on some theories that i read is on the realm of supernatural. Wait a minute..... >Knox 2nd It is forbidden for supernatural agencies to be employed as a detective technique. LIE ! ITS ALL A LIE HOLY SHIT !

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:41:02 2010 No.5818034 >>5818006 Funny, anon. There's no way there's less than 17 people as stated in red. Also, captcha: People septumy, wat.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:41:31 2010 No.5818032 [DELETED]

>>5817991

You're a funny guy and I'm sure anti-Shkanonfags will love your post, but you're still acting like an idiot.
>Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice had a duel to the death, therefore Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice.
Not that they had a duel to the death. Not even they had a duel with "HEY WOULDN'T THIS USUALLY BE DONE BY TWO MEN AFTER THE SAME WOMEN IF THERE ARE THREE PEOPLE AND THREE PARTNERS I DON'T GET IT WHAT" being repeated by the characters all the time. But that this was a duel to create a full person that could love, that all three were less than human - furniture, and that the winner became a human by absorbing the incompetence souls of the losers.

I mean, really. Just how can you miss this?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:42:02 2010 No.5818035 >>5818017 I'm mocking him because he's mocking Shkanontrice in such an ignorant way, you twit.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:43:02 2010 No.5818044

>>5817991

You're a funny guy and I'm sure anti-Shkanonfags will love your post, but you're still acting like an idiot.
>Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice had a duel to the death, therefore Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice.
Not that they had a duel to the death. Not even they had a duel with "HEY WOULDN'T THIS USUALLY BE DONE BY TWO MEN AFTER THE SAME WOMAN IF THERE ARE THREE PEOPLE AND THREE PARTNERS I DON'T GET IT WHAT" being repeated by the characters all the time. But that this was a duel to create a full person that could love, that all three were less than human - furniture, and that the winner became a human by absorbing the incomplete souls of the losers.

I mean, really. Just how can you miss this?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:44:02 2010 No.5818049 >>5818044 But Genji is furniture too...

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:45:02 2010 No.5818054

>>5817991
Don't forget that Kanon is both Maria and Sakutarou. Also, Kyrie is Leviathan, Rudolf is Belphegor, Battler is Beelzebub, and Ange is Kasumi Sumadera and all of her henchmen. Ange had an argument with the stakes once, so basically she's her entire extended family, including the dead ones. Kind of like All You Zombies, but with witches.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:46:02 2010 No.5818071 >>5818049 This is our only real weapon against Shkanontrice.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:48:02 2010 No.5818092

>>5818049
Genji is a strange one. Aside from him, all furniture in Umineko is not human.

It's likely that Genji's furniture philosophy was taken by Shannon and Kanon and changed a bit to mean something else, and that's why furniture for them and for the meta characters has always meant these imaginary beings.

Genji might have even felt it was even more necessary for Shannon and Kanon to follow that philosophy because he realized the dangers of their condition, and this may be one of the reasons why Kanon says he has mixed feelings about him. He was probably strict with them.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:49:02 2010 No.5818100

>>5818044
Everybody realized this the first time they read it, because the author shoved it in their faces. It's just that some people tried thinking critically about it and realized that the scene might, just maybe, have been deliberately framed in a misleading way.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:52:02 2010 No.5818115

There is no shkannon
There is Sayo acting both Shannon and Kanon.
"whydunnit":
Sayo went on ragemode because Battler didn't bring the pony and now she wants to kill the whole family.

ok...the whodunnit is a joke but "Shkannon is an act" is the only reasonable explanation for the sudden personality switches

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:52:02 2010 No.5818116 >>5817991 It's a pretty pathetic attempt at being ironic. What is show though is that didn't understand shit of episode 6, congratulation

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:52:02 2010 No.5818119

>>5818071
There is plenty to use against Shkannonfags, but they're so arrogant they can't event contemplate anything else.

And that is probably the biggest problem with the Shkannon theory; it encourages people to stop thinking "since 1-4 are already solved with it" and just ride the story out, which is exactly the opposite of R07 told you to do in Episode 6.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:52:02 2010 No.5818121

>>5818100
Not "deliberately framed in a misleading way" but "outright false" would be the only true objection to it. People always fail to explain this part when it comes to their alternate theories, instead they turn it around by saying the Shkanonfags can only rely on this as a crutch, or try to explain it offhandedly in a way that doesn't really make sense, or say it's all trolling, or a red herring, essentially all ways to just eliminate it as a factor they need to consider.

Besides, the one I was replying to wasn't saying that. He was acting as if the only reason that people think they're the same is because it was a match between three people. Derp.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:53:02 2010 No.5818129

>>5817946
See, yes and no.

Is she Beatrice? No, but she is closely involved with Shannon and Kanon.

Jessica can't -just- be a red herring, come episode 7 or 8 there is going to be SOME shit going down with her.

Even if Ryukushi were to have her be totally ignorant of Shkanon, which is unlikely in my opinion, she still is going to play a critical role in the ending.

As things stand she's either the pinnacle of innocence or one scheming bastard.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:54:02 2010 No.5818136 2 weeks.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:54:02 2010 No.5818138

>>5818049
Well, I just racked my brains to fit it in. I couldnt come up with much but here is what I got.

Genji is loyal to the master of the mansion, and the mansion has two masters. The day master, Kinzo, and the night master, Beatrice. Maybe he was even ordered by Kinzo to treat Beatrice with the same status as him back in the day. Then time went by and you know how Genji is, orders are serious business, and Kinzo never told him to stop being loyal to Beatrice. Ultimately, Genji created two sides of himself, to serve two different masters.

That would explain Ronove too, and if I reacall correctly Ryu did say Ronove was a big clue.

Either that or Genji is just an old samurai and considers his sole duty to be usefull to the Ushiromiyas just like a hangers sole duty is to hang stuff. Shannon/Kanon just heard him say it so many times they adopted the term and gave it their own meaning.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:55:02 2010 No.5818142
File: 59 KB, 514x289, 8e7043908a62110ca4bdd57e4c2ec7ae.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5818115
Featherine says to herself that the closed room trick could only be used once. So it's not that they conveniently switch their personality all the time for closed rooms. It's that one personality dies, and cannot be revived. And this isn't a death for no reason. We understand why the death happens from episode 6, as well as why it's destined to happen on the day of the murders.

Kanon dying is something most theories for the closed room usually agree on, since "Kanon doesn't exist" can mean "Kanon is dead", as "Kinzo doesn't exist" has evidenced.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:55:02 2010 No.5818147 >>5818119 I've been saying this forever. Everyone stopped thinking. >>5818129 Both Jessica and George are unaware. There's a scene early in Ep4 where they both discuss their respective love interests, by name, in front of Battler.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:56:02 2010 No.5818153 >>5818129 There's something suspicious about her, that's for sure. But I think her character was deliberately constructed to seem like Beatrice, and that Beatrice was based on her was an explanation that came after using her as a red herring.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:56:02 2010 No.5818160 >>5818142 >as well as why it's destined to happen on the day of the murders. Why? Battler's return?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:56:02 2010 No.5818161 >>5817946 she raged pretty hard in all the eps, in 4 she even thought kinzo was still alive? she might be the 2nd battler even but shes too ignorant of things to be part of the killings

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:57:02 2010 No.5818164 There is a difference between "thinking" and refusing to face the truth. Which is what you anti-ShKanon fags do, you just run away.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 19:59:02 2010 No.5818179

>>5818142
The trouble with Shkanontrice is that it is sorta cheap.
Kanon's dead, Shannon's dead, but the body is still walking around committing murders. It'd be the same thing if whenever Jessica died her other persona "Jessie" committed the murders, yes, there is foreshadowing for it, but that doesn't mean it isn't stupid and underhanded.

Hell, Beatrice is praised for ingenious locked rooms, but the formula is simple. Kill a bunch of people, use master keys, AHAHAHAHAHAH KANON AND/OR SHANNON IS DEAD DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE LOLOLOL, use red text to confirm it, be seen as a mastermind.

ERIKA !!rvelpwMesVU Thu Jul 29 19:59:02 2010 No.5818182
File: 267 KB, 640x480, the genius who turned the chessboard kyrie.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5817947
Precisely. Kyrie knew you wouldn't think of her as the culprit. She turned the chessboard around on you, knowing you would make that conclusion, based on her mastermind level intellect. It was one of the seven conclusions she reached before you even read the story.

Sorry, Asumu-san. It's a head bump.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:00:02 2010 No.5818184

>>5818142
>It's that one personality dies, and cannot be revived.
Thats why i think its a bit retarded, personalities don't die like that, some psychological assistance is always needed to bring all the personalities together and form one sole "persona".
But of course this is a "fantasy" novel so everything is possible.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:01:02 2010 No.5818194

>>5818160
That and George's proposal. The point at which the relationships would eventually crumble Beatrice and Kanon spoke of in early episode 2 flashbacks is the family conference of 1986. Battler returning puts pressure on the Beatrice's personality, a huge pressure since he hadn't been there at all for 6 years, even though she existed only for him. This created her 1000 years of torture, wherein she wished she could just die. Then there's George's proposal, which obviously puts a lot of pressure on the Shannon personality.

It's no surprise that Kanon dies, really. His love doesn't have much of a chance. The zero on the roulette is a low chance, and in episode 1 where he makes that speech, he did put up a good effort. He outlasted Shannon, which doesn't happen in any other episode, but he also tried to stand up to Beatrice. But then Beatrice appears to Maria later and before the cousins, it's obvious she won.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:04:02 2010 No.5818218
File: 247 KB, 638x476, pimpin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5818147
Well, yes, but if one were trolling, the last thing they'd want to do would be to say LOLOL GEORGE I FUCKED YOUR WAIFU.

I believe, or rather, hope that Kanon's flashback in episode 7 had relevance.

I mean, dear lord, if NO ONE ON THE FUCKING ISLAND NOTICED THAT SHANNON AND KANON WERE THE SAME PERSON BESIDES THE OTHER SERVANTS I'M GOING TO HAVE A BRAIN ANEURYSM.

Like, seriously. have Natsuhi, Krauss, all the parents be fooled, hell, even have George be fooled, but don't have the person who bros out with both of them be fooled.

There is a thin line between reasonable suspension of disbelief and contrived silliness, and while everyone else comes dangerously close to crossing that line, when you have Jessica not realize that Shannon and Kanon are the samefag, you've just leaped miles over it.

Unless episode 7 shows me that Jessica is as delusional as Shannon, I can't quite swallow that she wouldn't know.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:05:02 2010 No.5818225 >>5818164 Considering alternate solutions isn't "running away", it's just good sense and a healthy respect for the author. What if you're wrong, and Ryuukishi is cleverer than you? You can't solve a puzzle by assuming that it doesn't exist.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:06:02 2010 No.5818229 >>5818194 >1000 years of torture >reacting to an off hand comment made by a ginger See, and I thought his sin was, y'know, actually a sin. Not a slutty maid being slutty and melodramatic.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:06:02 2010 No.5818230 >>5818182 i like kyrie but damn for a genius she sure got far in all the eps huh? fuck i just can't see her being the mastermind unless she's that good from the dead doesn't mean it would be completely impossible to pull it off

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:07:02 2010 No.5818232

>>5818218
There is no way Jessica doesn't know. Don't worry about that. As for George, poor virgin, he could conceivably not know. I wonder how much those glasses really help him.

Of course there's no way Krauss and Natsuhi don't know too, it'll be interesting if we get an explanation as to how this all worked, but the explanation of how Kinzo's death was hidden might be the only hint we get about this.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:07:02 2010 No.5818239 >>5818229 Episode 6 says the sin is judged by who's sinned against, or whatever.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:08:02 2010 No.5818241

>>5818218
I'm telling ya bro, Jessica twas the one who was raped, but she isn't Beatrice.

Note well her disdain for Beatrice, and how she tells Kumasawa to shut the hell up when she begins to go on a rant about Beato. I'm telling ya, she twas the one who was raped, which is why she plays games of pretend with her maid.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:09:02 2010 No.5818254

>>5818229
If it really was an actual sin, Battler would have remembered. It's kind of funny to go and read episode 4, see how much Beatrice is accusing Battler, and know that it's only because of that.

R07's trying to play the whole "Beatrice was created for Battler but Battler was never around so her life had no purpose so she wanted to die" thing as an explanation for that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:11:02 2010 No.5818271 >>5818241 If Shannon wasn't the one who was raped she somehow becomes even less sympathetic than she was before. Which is fine, she's a freaking eyesore, but still.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:13:02 2010 No.5818281

>>5818254
Beatrice(While covered in Jessica's brains, Kyrie's blood, and chunks of George's flesh): YOU HAVE SINNED!

Battler: How?

Beatrice: YOU DIDN'T COME BACK;_;

Battler: Well, shit happened in my life, I'm sorry. I came back six years late- dude, the fuck? You just killed my friends! ...and George. Goddamn hypocrite, get the fuck out of here.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:14:02 2010 No.5818289 File: 724 KB, 1200x766, 9e0b0b807842e30ee8d57ae457a7ace2fd5d24fd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] And so the rapee instead rapes. So it was, so it shall always be.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:16:02 2010 No.5818295 >>5818289 Did... did George just get NTR'd by Jessica? FUCK YEAH!

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:17:02 2010 No.5818312 File: 389 KB, 640x480, beato.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5818281 Battler is a very bad man.

ERIKA !!rvelpwMesVU Thu Jul 29 20:19:02 2010 No.5818330
File: 64 KB, 450x600, 9d8232fb0deac00aab1cbc4248133098.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5818230
I don't really think Kyrie is the mastermind, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind it either. Her actions in most of the games seem contradictory to that purpose, and while she does get killed off first thing in Ep 1 and 2, keep in mind that everyone does at least once, except Nanjo. She's just too smart for her own good, it seems like.

It's probably a game of multiple culprits when you take this into account. Kyrie could be the culprit for every crime in Episode 3, for example, except Battler's murder. And the bomb, of course. Or god forbid, Nanjo is the mastermind.

Actually that would be kind of awesome too.

Kyrie might very well be just a mother trying to desperately protect her son from the people trying to kill him. I know Kasumi doesn't paint the Sumadera family in a positive light, but it would be amusing if the truth behind the Ushiromiyas was even worse and more horrifying.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:19:02 2010 No.5818333 File: 88 KB, 637x473, 1274643686478.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5818312 Thought I was posting this one.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:23:02 2010 No.5818362 You know even in episode 3 Eva and Rosa thought the servants weren't actually dead, that it was just a prank by Kinzo? Until Rosa was killed, that is. More evidence that it's fake deaths first then real killings later.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:23:02 2010 No.5818363

>>5818330
Kyrie is too smart to be the mastermind. I subscribe to the theory that she went on MAMA BEAR RAMPAGE in episode 3, but Kyrie had just fought hard to get her son and husbando, no way she'd squander it by killing them all.

If I could choose any mastermind I wanted, I'd go for Nihlistic Jessica culprit. Shit would rock.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:28:02 2010 No.5818401 >>5818363 Ah, like Hazama from Blazblue? We're not going to get a troll culprit, we're going to get a DEEP culprit who has DEEP motives for DEEPLY killing everyone and then she'll still be alive at the end and Ange won't kill her because it'll be DEEP.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:32:02 2010 No.5818429 >>5818401 Dear god no, if Shannon killed everyone for realz and is somehow still alive, Ange better paint her wallpaper with her brains.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:40:02 2010 No.5818483
File: 64 KB, 320x250, 3kyrie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

"Listen up you two," Rudolf said solemnly once the door to the bedroom was locked. Kyrie and Battler nodded. "Tonight, I might be killed." Thunder rumbled and lightening flashed outside dramatically.

Kyrie and Battler…nodded. "And your point is…?" The two urged him to continue.

He aggressively moved towards his son and clasped the teen's hands into his, as if to entreat him.

"So it's time to get connected!" He said happily. "Oooh! You gonna buy me a Metro. Or a T-Mobile would be nice; with an iPhone or something," Battler became excited. "The hell is an iPhone?" Kyrie asked Rudolf.

"No; I mean, let's have a THREESOME!" Rudolf cheered!

…."Kyrie-san!" Battler turned to the woman in disbelief. "Well, he's right. Let's do it Battler-kun," She smiled creepily. "B-But why," He asked. "DOSHITE?—"

"'Cuz it's logical," Kyrie said flatly.

"Oh, well that makes sense…" Battler concurred.

The two pervs high-fived each other like giddy teenagers. Battler… That poor boy never got his iPhone. It was a tragedy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:42:02 2010 No.5818495 File: 564 KB, 640x1440, 1279904876578.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5818194 Explain why Kanon was born I can accept Shannontrice, but Shkannon doesn't make sense.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:42:02 2010 No.5818499 >>5818483 My body is ready - continue

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:44:02 2010 No.5818514 >>5818495 To serve Kinzo. It was stated that Kanon has to do a "filthy job". That he was always playing along with Kinzo's prank and was very close to him. Kinzo even took him to hunt and shit.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:53:02 2010 No.5818574

>>5818495
What's with these min-deniers, either accepting Shannontrice/Kanontrice but rejecting Shkanon, or accepting Shkanon but rejecting -trice? Funny to have both of them.

Kanon's birth is a bit of a question, but it seems like he was created after Beatrice. Some things don't make sense if Kanon isn't Shannon. Like the picture >>5817765 presents with the inconsistency of Shannon having known Kanon all along in the orphanage, but Shannon having be hired and thus gaining a new life 10 years ago, with Kanon only 3 years ago.

I say Battler is the father in the sense that his initial sin started all this split personality nonsense. If his love with Shannon wasn't interrupted by his leave, then the other two wouldn't have been created. Thus, their creation is a result of his sin. Thus, I can only suppose that Kanon is a personality created to love Jessica while Shannon is one created to love George.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:55:02 2010 No.5818591

>>5818495
Shannon dresses up as a boy for whatever harmless reason. Maybe Jessica wants a roleplay or something. Nothing sexual or crazy yet.

Kinzo finds out. And likes the idea for some reason. (either as a prank or something malicious). And so he "hires" Kanon, and forces the other servants to play along.

Over time both Jessica and Shannon start to lose their grip on the situation. Jessica really likes having a boy her own age around, and Shannon really doesn't want to make Jessica sad. Or the other way around if you prefer Shannon to be the crazy one. It's not difficult.

Shkanon isn't the hard part. Connecting Shkanon to Beatrice is the part that doesn't really make sense.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:56:02 2010 No.5818596 >>5818574 Continuing, only one of these loves can actually succeed. Beatrice refers to three seeds having been sown in episode 2. So Kanon would exist for a similar reason the other two do, really.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:57:02 2010 No.5818609 >>5818574 What's with these Shkanon-trice guys who found one secret, that was spoon-fed to them in the THIRD to last game, and think that they can use that one thing to solve every question in the series?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:58:02 2010 No.5818614 >>5818609 What's with you deciding there's an episode 9

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:59:02 2010 No.5818618 >>5818609 This is my problem too. It's not THE ANSWER, guys.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 20:59:02 2010 No.5818622 >>5818591 >>5818574 It sounds completely retarded.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:01:02 2010 No.5818632 >>5818618 Who Beatrice is isn't a small part of the story. It is not all of the story, but it is not small.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:02:02 2010 No.5818634

>>5818574

I say Battler is the father in the sense that his initial sin started all this split personality nonsense. If his love with Shannon wasn't interrupted by his leave, then the other two wouldn't have been created. Thus, their creation is a result of his sin. Thus, I can only suppose that Kanon is a personality created to love Jessica while Shannon is one created to love George.

It doesn't make any fucking sense.

Especially cuz the original personality created Beato in order to find happines on her own..and guess what, you can't create ANOTHER personality by command.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:02:02 2010 No.5818636 >>5818622 Does it sound any more retarded than how Beatrice was made? What would satisfy you, Shannon wanted money so she made two other personalities?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:02:02 2010 No.5818637 >>5818614 Check your math. Anyway, for evidence of a number 8, I'd just assume that the last one, whenever it comes, would be advertised as such. It would boost hype, and prevent disappointment from people who thought it would be longer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:03:02 2010 No.5818641 >>5818634 >cuz Out.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:05:02 2010 No.5818652 >>5818591 More likely, Jessica wants some cheesecake, not some beefcake. But.... Well.... As always, the biggest problem with Shkanontrice is that if she's the killer, everyone who knows is guilty by default. It's quite frustrating, really.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:05:02 2010 No.5818653 >>5818637 Was the last Higurashi episode advertised like that?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:06:02 2010 No.5818661 >>5818653 That I don't know.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:08:02 2010 No.5818674

>>5818652
That's why it's the key.

Hideyoshi is guilty in episode 1. The servants are all guilty (sans Gohda) and were bribed, except for Gohda who was still bought by the gold since he follows whoever finds it. Rosa is guilty in episode 2 (shocking). Something is very wrong with Jessica.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:11:02 2010 No.5818693

>>5818674
To be honest, Shkanontrice by itself incriminates Jessica even without her knowing the two are the same person.

Do remember, she and Nanjo are the two people who chill with Kanon as he is "dying".

Suppose she doesn't know about Shkanontrice... that's fine, but Shkanontrice means Kanon wasn't really dead.

And if "he" wasn't really dead, ....we've got a problem.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:14:02 2010 No.5818712 >>5818693 Everytime I want to close the book on Jessica, someone makes an argument that keeps bringing her back up. Dear lord, man...

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:14:02 2010 No.5818715

>>5818362
>You know even in episode 3 Eva and Rosa thought the servants weren't actually dead, that it was just a prank by Kinzo? Until Rosa was killed, that is. More evidence that it's fake deaths first then real killings later.

# No device exists which can lock them without a key, such as an auto-lock.
# 6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
# There is no one hiding in the six rooms!
# The six people died instantly!
# Only the victims are inside the rooms, and no other people exist inside the rooms. (Used by Ronove.)
# The six people were not killed by traps (Used by Beatrice.)
# None of the six people committed suicide!

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:16:02 2010 No.5818727

To all of you who are assuming HURR DURR MENTAL DISORDERS DEE EYE DEE, you're looking at this the wrong way. Sayo is definitely messed up in the head, but not in the "it just happened outside of my control because being a lunatic runs in my family" sort of way.

She's like all of you - she consciously indulges in fantasy because reality is shit, and (this is a guess) she gave up hope of it ever improving.

The big difference is in how she ended up going about it. Presumably, Kanon was "born" first as an outlet for her negative emotions - think Piccolo and Kami. Kanon "existing" would mean she would have someone to validate her anger at being rebuked for messing up at her job (recall the number of this times this happens in the first 3 episodes), someone who would get angry or upset so that she wouldn't have to.

Similarly, Beatrice is created so that Sayo could love George. By pushing her unrequited love for Battler onto Beatrice, she would be able to face the future without regrets.

How this solves the mystery, I'm not sure; I only know that it's one of the keys to solving it and that it supports the whole business about how "Beatrice" has nothing to gain from the epitaph or the gold.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:18:02 2010 No.5818739 >>5818712 Because the suspension of disbelief regarding Jessica being utterly dumb is retarded. You have ti suppose she didn't find out her lover and best friend were the same person. It's hard to believe.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:18:02 2010 No.5818740 >>5818715 None of these reds prevent them from being killed immediately after discovery. >>5818727 You'd have to assume that her original personality is VASTLY different from what is presented to us, then.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:19:02 2010 No.5818742 >>5818693 Actually they're already incriminated for that even if you think Kanon, Shannon and Beatrice are all different people. Kanon wasn't dead, the red shows he couldn't have been.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:19:02 2010 No.5818744 >>5818727 >Similarly, Beatrice is created so that Sayo could love George. By pushing her unrequited love for Battler onto Beatrice, she would be able to face the future without regrets. You lost me.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:19:02 2010 No.5818747

>As always, the biggest problem with Shkanontrice is that if she's the killer, everyone who knows is guilty by default. It's quite frustrating, really.

Everyone knows about it except pre-Episode 5 Battler and Erika, both of whom are not able to realize that they're one person because they don't love anyone.

"Without love, it cannot be seen," remember?

This is the reason Erika doesn't pick up on the truth even though she's in the same room with them like 4 times.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:20:02 2010 No.5818748 >>5818740 Battler says that Shannon from 6 years ago was very different. This was actually one of the cornerstones of the old pony theory. Unlike the shy mess she is now, she was a leader to the cousins, even though she was younger.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:23:02 2010 No.5818765 >>5818748 How do Shkannon fag explain her body in ep 1?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:23:02 2010 No.5818770 >>5818747 Y'know what? I think if the Rokkenjima accident happened in real life, I might just have to believe in God. It's a God damn miracle all of those assholes bit it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:25:02 2010 No.5818783 >>5818747 >This is the reason Erika doesn't pick up on the truth even though she's in the same room with them like 4 times. wat

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:26:02 2010 No.5818788

>>5818744
The thing about why Beatrice was created to love Battler at the climax of episode 6 explains it.

Shannon was in love with Battler, but he never returned her feelings. Fast forward a few years and she meets George. She finds herself falling in love with George, but still has feelings for Battler and consequently, guilt about the thought of abandoning her first love.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:26:02 2010 No.5818789 >>5818765 Derp, didn't mean to quote

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:27:02 2010 No.5818791 >>5818783 >>5818765 This is why nobody takes Skanonfags seriously. Is there any theory that makes less sense?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:28:02 2010 No.5818801 >>5818765 Shannon's body was explicitly NOT confirmed. (Actually, Krauss's too, but no one cares about him)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:30:02 2010 No.5818810 >>5818801 # Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist! # There are no unidentified corpses, and all of the survivors have alibis! derp

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:30:02 2010 No.5818815

>>5818801
Actually, Krauss's was confirmed since Battler clearly described it. He said at least you could tell Krauss was Krauss, as opposed to his parents whose faces were completely smashed. This is a good enough confirmation as any, as long as you don't subscribe to the "it was makeup" theory.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:31:02 2010 No.5818817 >>5818810 >what is an context

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:32:02 2010 No.5818825 >>5818817 wat

>>	ERIKA !!rvelpwMesVU Thu Jul 29 21:35:02 2010 No.5818852 >>5818815 He's a total dick in that scene too. "Hey Jessica, you're sooo lucky, your dad only has half of his face missing. My parents are missing all of theirs!"

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:36:02 2010 No.5818854

>>5818788
Pretty sure that scene has no applications beyond the meta-plot. Chick Beato had already been established as a sort of daughter to Sorcerer Battler and the original MetaBeato. The whole scene is about Chick Beato learning to understand the original Beato, how she behaved, why she behaved, how she thought up her tricks, and how the old Beato and the New Beato relate to each other.

When she starts hearing her mothers voice, it's referring to Meta-Beato. Not whatever human might be responsible for creating the first Meta-Beato. As far as I can remember, the game hasn't even acknowledged the possibility that Beato might have spawned from an existing character yet.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:37:02 2010 No.5818867

>>5818810
I'm getting really sick of explaining this.

Battler, in that scene, is talking about the possibility of Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo's bodies possibly being fake because their faces are entirely missing, therefore they could be different people dressed up. So Beatrice denies that with that red. What she's essentially saying is "The corpses with their faces completely torn of are who you assumed they were, therefore there are no corpses dressed up as anyone else" Therefore, at this moment she confirms their identities.

Then there's the mystery of Kanon. Everyone has an alibi, Beatrice uses that red, because she previously took all "unidentified" corpses and turned them into identified ones. Therefore, what she's saying is "Everyone alive has an alibi, and everyone dead is who they're supposed to be so they're not lurking around somewhere".

In the case of Krauss, Battler could see half his face. He wasn't "unidentified". In the case of Shannon, Battler never described this, but the narrator speaking Hideyoshi's thoughts said Shannon's corpse was the same - half the face. Hideyoshi identified her, so she wasn't an unidentified corpse. There's no proof she was a corpse at all.

Unfortunately that also applies to the others in the shed. If none of them are actually corpses, but living bodies, for example, then none of that red matters.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:39:02 2010 No.5818884 >>5818810 The unidentified corpses were explicitly defined as the ones with the full faces smashed. (Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Gohda). Krauss and Shannon were already identified, so their deaths weren't confirmed in the red.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:39:02 2010 No.5818886 >>5818867 Then what about: #Therefore, no body double tricks exist!

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:40:02 2010 No.5818897 >>5818886 Doesn't matter if they aren't doubles.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:42:02 2010 No.5818909 >>5818867 Then, what about ep III? How did Shkannon fake that?

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:42:02 2010 No.5818913

>>5818886
A "body double trick" is just that - a corpse double, a corpse dressed up as a corpse of someone it is not. A person playing dead is not a "body double trick". Something that is not a body at all is not a "body double trick".

And the "therefore" means it's just a logical extension of the red before it. So you can ignore anything after, including the "therefore". It has no additional information that cannot be derived from the previous sentence.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:42:02 2010 No.5818914 Shanon = asumu's daughter she is Beatrice cuz she found the gold she went on rage mode, cuz battler reentered the family, and she want him to feel the pain of losing his family >>5818115 -> i'm with this anon, shkanon is not a double personality

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:44:02 2010 No.5818933 >>5818653 This is a good question. Does anyone know? I also believe the last episode would be announced as such, but I'm wondering how Ryu handled Higurashi now.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:45:02 2010 No.5818939

>>5818854
...You really don't get it, do you.

Beatrice the Elder is an amalgamation of phenomena based on all of the local legends to that Kinzo gave a face when he hung up the portrait. This is why she gets burned by spiderwebs and is affected by magic circles.

The younger Beatrice (who is both the "Meta-Beatrice," and the same person that Battler meets on the board in Episode 4) is a living, breathing human imitating the Witch of the Portrait. This is why she can't use magic and isn't affected by anti-magic countermeasures, but is harmed by the spirit mirror - it breaks the illusion by showing her real (Sayo's) face.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:45:02 2010 No.5818947

>>5818909
Shannon was the first corpse found, Kanon's was the last corpse. The rooms were intentionally set up with the keys so an order would be followed. All that was needed was an accomplice to start the chain.

After being tired of checking all those corpses, a single person(accomplice), could have said it was Kanon and that would be that. Eva and Rosa thought they were playing dead after this, so they clearly didn't get such a good look to be sure of things.

Given the time that they would waste following the order, Shaknontrice (as Beatrice) could have left the first room and entered the last room to pose as Kanon. Or it could have been Shannon's corpse moved. Or it didn't have to be a corpse.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:46:02 2010 No.5818949 >>5818852 Doesn't matter, Jessica was trolling, maybe.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:47:02 2010 No.5818960 >>5818933 Did someone ever solved Ep 5 weird rumor?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:49:02 2010 No.5818972 >>5818939 Also Beatrice the elder giving Shannon the butterfly brooch, according to ep6 TIPS, could be interpreted as Shannon getting the idea for the multiple personality from always looking at the portrait, and remembering Battler's ideal.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:50:02 2010 No.5818977 >>5818960 What weird rumor? Are you talking about the mystery with the letter?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:52:02 2010 No.5818990 >>5818977 Yeah, i really can't find anything

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:53:02 2010 No.5818993

>>5818939
That concept was interesting for a moment, something I hadn't heard before, but doesn't make sense.

If Chick Beato was really the exposed culprit in denial of her own identity, how would she be able to operate on the game board? How could she create a new puzzle that even the Gamemaster couldn't think of in order to free him from the logic error, if she didn't have full knowledge of all the secrets of the gameboard, one of which would be her?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:54:02 2010 No.5819001 >>5818990 It was a group lie. No red says the story about the discovery of the letter and the knock was true at all. It was probably a scheme to have Battler realized as the head since Natsuhi wouldn't do so, a product of their emergency meeting.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:57:02 2010 No.5819037

>>5818993
Didn't she solve the mystery of herself? She became very similar to the old Beato.

Also, Battler might have been aware of the solution. He just didn't think of how to utilize it so little would be revealed, since it's an important part of Beato's heart. Kanon tells Beato how, by telling her that a witch is not someone who solves puzzles, but poses them. So Beato poses it as a room Erika must solve, rather than explaining mistakes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 21:59:37 2010 No.5819044 >Didn't she solve the mystery of herself? She became very similar to the old Beato. She didn't solve the mystery. She created another mystery, a witch doesn't solve, a witch creates mystery.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:02:02 2010 No.5819062

>>5818993
>If Chick Beato was really the exposed culprit in denial of her own identity, how would she be able to operate on the game board?

Because Shannon dresses up as her (which is suggested as early as Episode 1). Also, just because Shannon = Beatrice does not mean Shannon = culprit. The whole thing about "Beatrice" being a Pawn that sometimes can become a Bishop, a Rook or a Queen is a not very subtle hint that there's probably a different character who's actually the mastermind.

>How could she create a new puzzle that even the Gamemaster couldn't think of in order to free him from the logic error, if she didn't have full knowledge of all the secrets of the gameboard, one of which would be her?

Actually, it was after she found out the truth about herself (becoming a mix between the old and new self) that she saved Battler from the Logic Error.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:03:02 2010 No.5819075 >>5818993 What if she's not in denial of her own identity, she's just actively pretending to be the witch for some reason? Like if she's acting the part of "Beatrice the Golden" for the epitaph game thing.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:03:02 2010 No.5819076

>>5819037
Ah, right. My chronology was screwed up.

But still, I don't see anything that points to this explanation over the simpler, as stated in the game, explanation. Chick Beato being a simple reincarnation of Beato with none of the experience or understanding. Something that exists as long as the game board exists, or a "representation of the rules" or whatever. And Elder Beato being the new temporary Piece Beato for Board #6.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:03:02 2010 No.5819080
File: 117 KB, 400x480, 1273445409397.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>How could she create a new puzzle that even the Gamemaster couldn't think of in order to free him from the logic error
>Implying Battler didn't plan all ep VI in order to resurrect Beato.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:04:02 2010 No.5819083

Guys, guys. This is Ryukishi we're talking about. The finaly episode will probably reveal that yes, Shkanontrice is true... But she's not actually the killer. It'll probably be something like Beatrice takes credit for the crazy stuff that happens early on, and then gets blamed for the murders that happen later. Somehow, the murders will turn out to be accidents or some shit, and thus the story will have a happy ending where no one is blamed. We will all get sparkly unicorns and double rainbows.

Might not be exactly that, but god... If it ends up being as happy as Higurashi's ending... I'll puke glitter.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:04:02 2010 No.5819086

It's possible that Shkanon is a key to the mystery. In that case, Shkanon supporters can be proud that they've grasped the key. However, you've yet to open the fucking door. Don't be proud just because you've found the obvious key. The door is high up and out of your reach. You have not and will not uncover the true mystery of Rokkenjima until it's handed to you on a silver platter. You have not even begun to touch the WHY which is the most important part of a mystery.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:05:02 2010 No.5819089

>>5819062
Eh. I think that's just telling us again that Shkanontrice can be Kanon, Beatrice of shannon. Meta-Beato's piece is Shkanontrice, and the piece that makes the most sense is a pawn. A piece that has the potential to change. Beatrice refers to herself as a queen in episode 4, Kanon would obviously be the knight. Of course it doesn't work entirely, since a pawn can become four things, not three. Unless you say the fourth thing is what she becomes if all personalties die (what might have happened when Battler forgot his sin on the gamebard)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:07:02 2010 No.5819100 >>5819080 wat

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:09:02 2010 No.5819112
File: 75 KB, 645x484, mastermind.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5818947
>The rooms were intentionally set up with the keys so an order would be followed. All that was needed was an accomplice to start the chain.

Pic related.

>Captcha: solution out

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:09:02 2010 No.5819114

>>5819076
Chick Beato is a representation of the rules, not really denying that. But the rules include many things, and Shkanontrice is one of them. Chick Beato's devotion to Battler comes from Shkanontrice, her fear of mirrors comes from her DID. Her simply being chick Beato does not explain why she is fine with spiders and scorpions but not with mirrors. That's something the rules explain.

On the other hand, elder Beato is clearly shown to be the legend Beato. She doesn't understand why she would dedicate herself to Battler - of course she doesn't, what people who know of the witch legend would think it has anything to do with Battler?

This is why the full Beato is Chick Beato + Legend Beato + 1000 years. Shkanontrice's love for Battler, + the witch legend, + the sin.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:09:02 2010 No.5819116 >>5819086 Holy shit, take it easy dude.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:11:02 2010 No.5819133 >>5819114 Beatos everywhere Too bad Kinzo didn't get one.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:11:02 2010 No.5819135

>>5819112
In the anime it's changed to Rudolf. We also don't know if this scene happened exactly as we are shown. There's also the possibility that the culprit used other methods to raise the possibility of the parlor being the first room to be discovered - such as the reason stated with the windows. It could have been a bit of a gamble. As long as the first one they broke into wasn't the chapel (which would really make the least sense to break into, since it's so far out they didn't realize there was a corpse there right away)

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:12:02 2010 No.5819137

>>5819116
Wait, you thought I was angry? I didn't try to convey any anger in my post. I was suggesting that Shkanon supporters look for explanations of why Shanon is acting the way she is and how it makes sense according to Knox/Dine's rules. They will not, however. This is a conclusion I have come to after reading several of these threads.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:13:02 2010 No.5819140 File: 231 KB, 600x2769, kinzoeveryone2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819133 All he wished... was a Beato...;_;

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:13:02 2010 No.5819141 >>5819135 If they DID break into the chapel first then it could have just turned into another "where's Kanon?" situation.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:13:02 2010 No.5819142 >>5819135 We know that Beatrice certainly likes gambles...

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:13:02 2010 No.5819144

>>5819083
>It'll probably be something like Beatrice takes credit for the crazy stuff that happens early on, and then gets blamed for the murders that happen later.
This reminded me of what Beatrice said to Natsuhi in EP5 about taking all of the blame. First for the death of the servant and baby and then for the murders at the end.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:14:02 2010 No.5819146 >>5819144 Which is funny considering Beato was the servant

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:15:02 2010 No.5819151

>>5819114
All right, I guess all of that looks sound.

Then the question turns back to, "why Shannon?" The mirror would be just as harmful to any other culprit/origin, be it Jessica or Kyrie or Rosa, or whichever. How do we know it's Shannon who's so devoted to Battler, and not someone else?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:16:02 2010 No.5819156 File: 62 KB, 640x479, 1279795720772.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819151 There are a bunch of clues, i don't have the pasta now, someone will post it Pic related

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:17:02 2010 No.5819163 File: 81 KB, 451x392, 1270985405442.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So Bern is the GM this time. Who are the players though? It's not like Battler or Beatrice will be playing anymore no?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:18:02 2010 No.5819166 Am i the only one that believes Beatrice was created by Shannon, but she's not her personality?

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:19:02 2010 No.5819169

>>5819151
Because we know Battler and Shannon have history romantically, because the "mother" who creates Beatrice says only she will be able to see her at first (Shannon and Kanon are at first the only people capable of seeing Beatrice), because of the whole duel situation, because the conversation the "mother" has with Battler mirrors the conversation George says he was jealous about, because Beatrice appears before the cousins (including Jessica) in episode 1, because Kanon could have easily given Maria the letters in the garden as he ran to the guesthouse, because Maria treats Kanon in episode 2 as if he is Beatrice, because in episode 1 Maria says Beatrice exists "here" when Kanon is present, and various others things. Too much to list.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:20:02 2010 No.5819178 File: 408 KB, 635x428, 1279495466029.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819163 Van dine and Vance. And for Beato and Battler.. i guess Bern will just torture them, slowly.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:20:02 2010 No.5819180

>>5819151
>How do we know it's Shannon who's so devoted to Battler, and not someone else?

Reposting:
Episode 6: We have the flashback of 6 years ago with "Beatrice" talking to Battler.
Battler talks to this "Beatrice" about his favorite kind of girl and jokes around with her in English.

Different scene, George remembers about six years ago, how he was jealous of Battler and we see a scene of Battler and Shannon talking and laughing together.

Different scene, Battler talks about how he was shy as a kid and how he ended up going out with a girl other than the one he really liked.

Now episode 3: Battler states CLEARLY that Shannon was his first love.
Shannon also states CLEARLY that he used to joke around in English with her all the time and that he promised to come back for her on a white horse.

Episode 4: "Beatrice" talks to about how Battler used to talk in English and how his favorite kind of girls are blonde and bouncy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:21:02 2010 No.5819186 >>5819163 It also really makes no sense for the meta story if Bern is the true gamemaster, yet. Battler retained his title of gamemaster at the end of episode 6, and the only indication we have that Bern will be gamemaster comes only from Featherine.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:21:48 2010 No.5819187 File: 245 KB, 702x527, 1280135911918.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] People will still think Shannon=Kanon is wrong make me laugh.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:22:02 2010 No.5819193 People who still think Shannon=Kanon is wrong make me laugh.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:22:02 2010 No.5819194 File: 267 KB, 640x480, ep 7 summary.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819178

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:23:02 2010 No.5819199 >>5819193 People who still support such a retarded theory have my pity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:24:02 2010 No.5819202 File: 277 KB, 640x480, 1259706750193.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819180 If only he didn't lie

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:25:02 2010 No.5819212 File: 431 KB, 899x480, 1279853624798.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819199 >>5819193

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:26:02 2010 No.5819218 >>5819199 It's 99% confirmed at this point. You're wasting your time trying to argue against it. Ryukishi07 agreed, don't bother him about it

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:28:02 2010 No.5819224 File: 420 KB, 899x476, oh you guys.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819212 The Ushiromiyas are a wacky bunch.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:29:02 2010 No.5819229 >>5819218 >Ryukishi07 agreed, don't bother him about it Ryukishi07 is very frustrated because you all stopped thinking. Which is why he rages through Featherine so much in ep6. People just don't get it and go for stupid theories like this.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:34:02 2010 No.5819246

>>5819212
I know it's supposed to be a gag but this logic is heavily flawed

1) It assumes that everyone in the household knows it. Evidence suggests that only the servants and Jessica do.

2) Only a few people know about Kinzo's death so it's not far-fetched to believe they're good at keeping secrets

3) Somebody could dress up as Kanon or Shannon to help create the illusion that they're different people. Jessica for instance

4) It's an assumption to believe that nobody is suspicious about it. Almost all of Umineko is Battler's POV. Several people were skeptical about Kinzo's death but we didn't learn about that until EP4.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:36:02 2010 No.5819255 >>5819246 Everyone in the household but Jessica and Gohda knows about Kinzo's death, and the former might actually know while the latter is an idiot.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:38:02 2010 No.5819273

>>5819229
He stated in an interview that EP6 <<verged on answers>> and said that you should treat everything after EP5 as part of the answer.

Translation for slow people: The red herrings are gone. Don't think EP6 was a red herring because it's not.

But if you want to continue playing dumb that's fine. Just don't whine when you discover that it was right.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:40:02 2010 No.5819282 >>5819273 He said Erika wasn't a bad person.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:40:02 2010 No.5819283

>>5819229
>Ryukishi07 is very frustrated because you all stopped thinking. Which is why he rages through Featherine so much in ep6.

He's frustrated not because people accept or don't accept Shkanontrice; he's frustrated because everyone is more concerned with pushing their pet theories (which might be elegant or impressive, but have no bearing on what the story's suggesting) and arguing over the details of individual episodes or murders (like whether or not Shkanontrice is necessary to solve the closed room of Episode 6) rather than trying to solve the actual mystery - the whodunnit, howdunnit and whydunnit in a complete, comprehensive and a consistent way.

He really has every reason to be pissed at the people who "read" his story.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:40:02 2010 No.5819287 >>5819273 So he gave away The Answer when there's two episodes remaining? Bullshit. He's lied in interviews before. Don't be so naive. Don't stop thinking.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:40:02 2010 No.5819290

I don't know in what to believe anymore really.

A part of me believes in the Shkannon bullshit, another doesn't. One moments Shkannonfags got me, in the other they contraction themself.

I want to have faith in R07, but Shkannon is so much jammed in ep VI that i keep wondering if that is really the shitty answer or just a giant troll from him. I try to think to other solutions, but every time Shkannon comes to mind and it seems like i'm wasting time on something that doesn't exist.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:42:02 2010 No.5819299 >>5819283 It is impossible to solve the whydunit with the clues we have been given so far. Anything pointing towards a motive has always been either vague or unrealistic.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:42:02 2010 No.5819302 >>5819287 Read above. Shkanontrice is not The Answer. It's the key to unlocking The Answer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:42:02 2010 No.5819303 >>5819282 And? She's not. Killing pieces in a game doesn't make you a bad person.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:45:02 2010 No.5819324 >>5819303 Fine if you believe him so much, he said Battler witnessing Eva shoot him in episode 3 was evidence that she did it definitely even though it was in third person. So thats evidence Erika in episode 5 proves Shkanon wrong.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:46:02 2010 No.5819328 >>5819287 To be specific, he gave away part of the answer. Just like in Tsumihoroboshi with the brain parasites. Shkanon is an answer but it's not the whole answer.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:47:02 2010 No.5819331

>>5819302

...Which basically means it's The Answer, doesn't it?

A key to the answer and the answer itself amounts to the same thing. If you have one you have the other.

Fun thing is that I don't see how you can use Shkanon to find The Answer, and no one here or anywhere else has offered such a solution.

This is why I'm forced to conclude that it has nothing to do with The Answer at all.

>>5819303

If it looks like a human, talks like a human, acts like a human, and bleeds like a human, it hardly matters whether it's 'actually' human or not.

Killing pieces is still murder.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:47:02 2010 No.5819333

>>5819299
And now you're the one who's "stopped thinking."

Ryuukishi has said the mystery has been solvable since Episode 4. BATTLER of all people solved it in Episode 5. If everyone stopped arguing over stupid shit, sat down and collectively re-read Episodes 1-4 with everything we now know, we could probably solve the story as well.

Too bad that will never happen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:48:02 2010 No.5819340 >>5819324 Eva shooting Battler wasn't in third person.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:48:02 2010 No.5819345 >>5819328 Tsumihoroboshi was just as misleading, although in the opposite way. It appeared to outright deny the brain parasites, while they (or something like them) were actually true.

None !OSakaQCVow Thu Jul 29 22:48:02 2010 No.5819347

>>5818727
>The big difference is in how she ended up going about it. Presumably, Kanon was "born" first as an outlet for her negative emotions - think Piccolo and Kami. Kanon "existing" would mean she would have someone to validate her anger at being rebuked for messing up at her job (recall the number of this times this happens in the first 3 episodes), someone who would get angry or upset so that she wouldn't have to.
Perfectly reasonable, believable and probably right up until the point where she starts cosplaying as this emotional outlet and gets hired for the same job she does.

i dont know what to believe.jpg

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:49:02 2010 No.5819352 >>5819333 >Too bad that will never happen. Most of the people still don't understand the nature of "Rokkenjima's Closed Box", good luck finding who, why, and how.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:49:02 2010 No.5819354 >>5819273 >The red herrings are gone. But there's still the problem with the baby & servant incident from last game. If you don't see the truth past a previous contradiction/riddle, you start leading yourself astray.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:50:02 2010 No.5819361 >>5819333 Instead they waste time making irrelevant theories like Erika doesn't exist. I'm sure Ryukishi facepalms when he sees people arguing such stupid shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:52:02 2010 No.5819370 >>5819354 They could be a red herring. He said "everything after EP5" Lambda even refuses to show in red that it really happened.

None !OSakaQCVow Thu Jul 29 22:52:02 2010 No.5819373

>>5819340
Yes it was.

>>5819273
>Don't think EP6 was a red herring because it's not.
It's still a weird fucking move for R07 to start whining about people stopping thinking and then giving the solution on a silver platter, both during the same episode.

The only thing I care about if Shkanontrice turns out to be true is the terrible writing of EP6. Otherwise it'll have been genius.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:52:02 2010 No.5819375

>>5819333

I just read Ep1-4. The hints for Shkanon are there, but they don't quite jump out at me as much as people said they would. Also, I still have very little idea why anyone would want to kill the Ushiromiyas.

Honestly, the whole thing literally seems like a game. Which, of course, it is, but...

It seems as though the person who sent out the bottle letters and the 07151129 letters was trying to play a game with those left behind. Trying to dare them to solve the mystery she had constructed.

Is killing 17 people really worth creating the greatest mystery of all time?

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:53:02 2010 No.5819377

>>5819331
>...Which basically means it's The Answer, doesn't it?

Uh, no.

>A key to the answer and the answer itself amounts to the same thing. If you have one you have the other.

...So because I found a lost key out in a parking lot somewhere, I'll automatically know the address of the door it unlocks even though there's no tag? Because that's what you're claiming.

>Fun thing is that I don't see how you can use Shkanon to find The Answer, and no one here or anywhere else has offered such a solution.

That's because it's only the Key and we haven't found the Door the Key opens because people are too busy arguing whether the Key is real or a red herring.

>This is why I'm forced to conclude that it has nothing to do with The Answer at all.

Your conclusion is faulty.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:54:02 2010 No.5819384 File: 245 KB, 702x527, 1280135911918.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Derp

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:55:02 2010 No.5819390
File: 340 KB, 1060x800, 1269341750922.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5819370

R07 said himself that ep V contained a trap.. and considering the whole thing was set up from 34 so Battler could have become the ES i wouldn't be surprise if that was a red erring.

I guess Natsuhi killing the baby and the phone call really did happen, but the baby didn't survive and it was all bullshit from Lambda or the culprit-

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:55:02 2010 No.5819396 >>5819347 I'm not saying that everyone at the mansion isn't in on Shannon and Kanon being the same person, but I think it's worth pointing out that Shannon normally only works three days and doesn't live at the mansion proper.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:56:02 2010 No.5819400

>>5819377

The same interview that you're quoting from refers to the answer to the closed room in Ep6 being the "key" that can "unlock all the other closed rooms".

Behold, your door. Now try and use your key to open every single one of them.

>>5819384

Genji is described as being able to do the same thing, in the same episode.
Apparently Shannon has trouble with it, though.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:56:02 2010 No.5819401
File: 136 KB, 600x352, 1250301304108.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Natsuhi is probably the only one with DID. She exhibits every single symptom for it. Headaches, lost intervals of time, traumatic experience, auditory and visual delusions. I'm going to laugh if Shkannon was shown to as not as a way to point the culprit out, but to point out that someone else has DID. The point of EP 5 after all was to show Natsuhi's past and all that jazz.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:58:02 2010 No.5819408 >>5819396 ...Where does she live? I seem to remember Kanon ranting about how he could never leave Rokkenjima. Does anyone else remember that?

None !OSakaQCVow Thu Jul 29 22:58:02 2010 No.5819410

>>5819396
And I'm not saying I care about who Shannon manages to fool with the act, I'm wondering about the necessity of the act itself. Why on earth would she need to dress up as Kanon, the outlet of her emotions, in the first place? Why does he need to exist?

Just... extra money?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:58:02 2010 No.5819414 >>5819384 Umineko fans are autistic. Does me saying a man "sailed into the room" mean he is a yacht?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:59:02 2010 No.5819416 File: 54 KB, 643x481, kanonandshannon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819384 Derp Shkannon clues are everywhere, you don't have to look that hard, really.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:59:02 2010 No.5819419 >>5819401 See, this. I like this. It's misdirecting. It's subtle. It's clever. It's everything a mystery should be.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:59:02 2010 No.5819420 Why doesn't anyone talk about how Battler isn't Asumu's child anymore? It was brought up when he was unable to say it with the red truth in episode 3 or 4 or something, and no one has spoken of it since. You think Battler would say SOMETHING.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 22:59:02 2010 No.5819421 File: 84 KB, 640x480, shkanon hint.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819414 derp

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:00:02 2010 No.5819424 >>5819408 She perhaps lives on her own with the money she makes. A teenager alone doesn't seem like an uncommon thing in Japan today. I don't know if it was at this time though. That or she still lives in the orphanage....

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:01:02 2010 No.5819431 File: 30 KB, 305x251, wowhatjessica.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819401 But Natsuhi is not the culprit, and she's pure and faithful.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:01:02 2010 No.5819433

>>5819410

All Shkanon manages to raise is more "whys".

It's a great solution to Ep3, but not much else.
A true explanation of events should make sense from both a game and a real world perspective.

>>5819416

...Actually, this really doesn't make any sense any way you look at it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:01:02 2010 No.5819436 >>5819401 More like Natsuhi (with all her Beatrice delusions) and the whole Kinzo plot was to show that someone else is doing a similar, bigger thing.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:03:02 2010 No.5819444

>>5819400
>Genji is described as being able to do the same thing, in the same episode.
Not in the same episode. This is episode 2. Genji thing is episode 3. And while it says he has the abilitiy, he never actually does it, while Kanon does it all the time. Then also in episode 3, the stealth is actually said to come from Ronove.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:03:02 2010 No.5819447 Reread EP1 and you'll notice how Kanon disappears for long periods of time whenever Shannon is around. And that when they're together, only the servants are around. Everything adds up too well for it to be a coincidence.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:03:02 2010 No.5819448 >>5819433 >Shkannon >solution to EP 3 >Beatrice declared them both dead right off the bat. what.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:03:02 2010 No.5819452
File: 107 KB, 516x480, kiryedad.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5819420

Because we know he's Kyrie's

I believe it will have huge ties with the resolution of the mystery, but i really can't find anything to tie it with Beato..

He's Kyrie's son, what now? What should this tell us? Why did Beato know about it?

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:04:02 2010 No.5819458

>>5819431

Her other personality isn't called "Natsuhi". It's called "Beatrice".

>>5819424

Come to think of it, what the fuck is up with that orphanage, anyway? Why do we never hear about it in the later episodes? Why are the other servants never mentioned?
And where is it, anyway?

>>5819420
He sort of brings it up in Ep5. Besides, I'm pretty sure he already knows who his mother is, if he understands everything.

It's Kyrie.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:05:02 2010 No.5819466

>>5819420
Battler would have learned a whole lot about his family when he reached the truth. Yet he doesn't seem to care for the pieces much.

It's probably an overwhelming thing. Battler has reached so many truths, he knows all these secrets, he just doesn't know where to start. He wants to talk to Beato about the truth, as episode 6 shows.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:05:02 2010 No.5819471 File: 197 KB, 690x900, 112db881bea158131002a198bcfa87b23dd7bdca.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Odd pattern I noticed. Natsuhi lives almost all the way to the end of the game on odd episodes while she dies first on evens.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:06:02 2010 No.5819476 File: 305 KB, 652x513, 2cehf1g.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819447

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:06:02 2010 No.5819484 >>5819448 If they have a third personality called Beatrice, it can walk around and kill everyone while getting around red text. Actually, I think that part's quite clever, in some ways.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:08:02 2010 No.5819504

>>5819447
>Her other personality isn't called "Natsuhi". It's called "Beatrice".

This sound retarded

Come on, the whole point of was to prove that she's innocent, she was the main suspect for ep 1 afterall...

If we follow this logic then we have to start to suspect EVERYONE again, including people like Eva and Maria.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:08:02 2010 No.5819505 >>5819471 Sonofabitch you're right. These little patterns have to be important. Even-numbered episodes are story episodes while odd-numbered ones focus more on the mystery. I wonder... Also, this post's captcha is... "gassiest But".

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:09:02 2010 No.5819507

>>5819370
My mistake, I should have worded it better. While I agree that this is an answer session, that doesn't prevent us from being fooled.

The adopted baby incident came up again when Beato chose Natsuhi as a sacrifice. Beato wanted to gain Battler's acceptance, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Battler's theory was correct in the last game. So if the reader hadn't noticed a few inconsistencies with Rudolf's hyperbole, Natsuhi's testimony, the trick with the mystery caller, etc -- they'd be herded in the direction that was a fault of their own. So while some people may think that the man from 19 years ago = Battler, others may have arrived at a different answer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:10:02 2010 No.5819519 File: 324 KB, 640x960, 1279637665550.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:13:02 2010 No.5819534 If you really want clues for Shkanontrice, episode 2 is full of them

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:14:02 2010 No.5819541 >>5819519 Kanon was assraped by Kinzo?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:14:02 2010 No.5819547 Back in the day, Battler not seeing them together was compelling enough.

Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:15:02 2010 No.5819549
File: 25 KB, 480x356, 1278599544375.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Placing bets on Battler being Natsuhi's legitimate child while Jessica is the baby that fell off the cliff. Jessica is the murderer and Natsuhi is a vigilante. Kanon works with Jessica so hey can live a happy life together with tons of money.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:16:02 2010 No.5819552 >>5819547 You realize that Shkanon used to be a joke theory, right? Also, we've hit the bump limit. New thread?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:17:02 2010 No.5819558 File: 538 KB, 634x900, 1280133073288.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5819547 How did Shkannonfags explain it?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:20:02 2010 No.5819579 >>5819558 Not first person.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:22:02 2010 No.5819588 >>5819579 What do you mean? Everyone was in the all, don't you think it would be weird if Kanon was missing?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 29 23:28:02 2010 No.5819623 >>5819621 New thread.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 30 00:03:02 2010 No.5819811 File: 3 KB, 300x57, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Had to post this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 30 00:20:02 2010 No.5819903 >>5819390 Translation please? Captcha: Even juicier o-o

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