/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:55:37 2010 No.5632229 [Reply] [Original]

Umineko Episode 6 thread, take 2. Old thread is autosaging.

Shkannon has been made so obvious in this game -- on every account -- that IMO it cannot possibly be true. R07 has repeatedly set up obvious theories and cast them down, over and over. I don't think the obvious theory has ever been right even once.

But if Shkannon isn't true, how can Battler get out of his closed room?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:57:31 2010 No.5632250 ＳTｏｐ_ｆＵＣＫｉnＧ_ATＴaCｋiｎｇＷWｗ.ａＮoＬａＷLｔAｌＫ.ＳE RＥｐLACe_ｌＡWＬ_wiｔＨ N ud vaann sfcdxcfnfnuac imvmssnu jwt

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:57:37 2010 No.5632246 If R07 manages to pull off a decent answer to everything without Shkannon, I will take back everything negative I've ever said about him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:57:37 2010 No.5632251 Cyborgs

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:58:37 2010 No.5632254 File: 32 KB, 847x471, augustus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] there are still people who believe Featherine and Hanyuu to be unrelated to eachother.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:58:37 2010 No.5632257 How about no? Did you even read what Hachijou had to say? You guys who expect LOLEPISODE 6 WAS JUST TROLLING are shitty readers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:59:37 2010 No.5632262 >R07 has repeatedly set up obvious theories and cast them down, over and over. Bullshit

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:59:37 2010 No.5632263 >>5632254 Confirmed that R07 can't come up with new characters.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:59:37 2010 No.5632265 >>5632254 These people actually pay attention to the shit they read then.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:59:37 2010 No.5632266 He can't. He said he was going to show us something red, and maybe a circle, but he gave us a fucking apple tree.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 05:59:37 2010 No.5632267 >>5632254 without love it can't be seen

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:00:37 2010 No.5632270

None of the ShKanon evidence was ever said in red, the whole thing about only one of them being happy was just more magic illusion nonsense.

In one room "Kanon" collapses, diesand the body disseapears. This is just a metaphor for Kanon the person ceasing to exist. Either the person pretending to be him (possibly Shannon) reveals themself which I think is more likely, or it could be going as far as him becoming "human" and gaining his real name because he considers himself human at that moment and not furniture.

Shannon and Kanon being the same person isn't the only way for Shannon and Kanon antics and I definately think that one of them gets taken out early on and the second plays the part of both if necessary.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:01:37 2010 No.5632272 File: 66 KB, 643x480, ryukishi derp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] respect ryu get burned

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:01:37 2010 No.5632273 >>5632246 I bet you he makes it a red herring because he knows faggots like you will suck his dick. All the while I'll be saying I told you so.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:01:37 2010 No.5632275

>>5632270

>None of the ShKanon evidence was ever said in red, the whole thing about only one of them being happy was just more magic illusion nonsense.

But from a literary standpoint, R07 is clearly trying to yell at us "SHKANNON SHKANNON SHKANNON SHKANNON". There must be some intent to this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:02:31 2010 No.5632281 >>5632226 sＴop_fｕＣkiNｇＡTtＡcKＩｎＧＷｗｗ.ＡＮｏLaWｌtaＬK.SＥ_reＰｌaｃｅ_LAwL Wｉth_n pai pwloufkfhwjb mz egz nr kuwxm o

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:03:31 2010 No.5632290 SｔOp ＦＵcＫｉＮG aＴＴaＣKinＧＷwW.aNOＬａＷＬtＡLｋ.SＥ rEpＬaＣｅ_ＬAｗＬ_wIＴｈＮ ynkgaqgp t xpuojvdk plvwn sxmldhf qwb fcn tqswy

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:03:37 2010 No.5632285 >>5632275 You're right he could just be blatently trying to make the readers understand that ShKannon is the answer, or he could just be trolling the fuck out of the people who believe it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:03:37 2010 No.5632287

>>5632273
You don't know r07 properly. He just told you Shkanontrice is true in the most obvious way he's willing to do it. He whacked you over the head with it until his hand was numb, if you don't get it at this point, he views it as your fault. He's not going to come out and tell you the truth in red. All you can say is "there must be a mindfuck answer" and sit around waiting for that answer, you won't try to come up with that answer yourself.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:03:37 2010 No.5632291

ITT people who can't fucking read to save their life.
You guys are delusional retards, it's to be expected from the Umineko fanbase I guess.

ShKanon(trice) has been hinted from the fucking beginning, episode 6 largely confirmed it, that's all.
No writer would waste a fucking entire episode and countless hints in previous episodes just to LOLITROLLU, fucking idiots.
Read what Hachijou said for fuck's sake.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:03:37 2010 No.5632292 >>5632275 It seems like Ryu07 is in the belief that people don't understand Shkannon, while people in reality do understand it and just reject it because it's so dumb that the answer might as well be small bombs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:03:37 2010 No.5632293 File: 107 KB, 993x746, womb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I liked this part

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:04:37 2010 No.5632295 >>5632293 I can't WAIT for the inevitable porn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:04:37 2010 No.5632299 >>5632291 "they're delusional retards except for me"

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:05:37 2010 No.5632302 >>5632246 same. if on the 7th game Shkanon is denied, I will be the happiest ever. maybe Bern will tell that Shkanon is the right answer, and Beato and Battler will come with "lol no. no way lol, you've been trolled. anyway leave our game alone"

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:06:37 2010 No.5632305

>>5632299
Only you I hope.
I really hope the idiot who keep rejecting ShKanontrice is just one vocal retard.

I can understand that lots of idiots from other shitty sites like gamefags or animesuki won't get obvious stuffs like this but I ask better from /jp/.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:06:37 2010 No.5632306

>>5632292
No, he's under the belief that:
-There are people who don't understand it (and there are, people who will say "So what DID maid tricked everyone on the island that they were two people?)
-There are people who won't think about it, and will wait around to be told the answer
-There are people who understand it, but will say it isn't a fair mystery and that it's stupid when he reveals it (but he doesn't care)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:07:37 2010 No.5632308 >>5632246 Shkannon is fine with me, but I don't want Shkannontrice. Shit is stupid as hell.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:07:37 2010 No.5632310 >>5632302 >XD EPIC WIN TROLLS

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:07:37 2010 No.5632311

>>5632291

This "I am obviously right without proof and everybody else in the world is an imbecile", person sounds suspiciously like that one guy from F/SN threads who always jumps in to tell people their opinions on characters are factually incorrect. Return after every sentence and all.

You might as well start tripfagging, buddy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:07:37 2010 No.5632312 The trap twins are definitely interesting characters, and the antagonism between GM Battler and Erika is pretty great.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:08:37 2010 No.5632316

>>5632305

I'm not rejecting it, I'm just hoping he doesn't resort to it. It's be so obvious since even games 1 and 2 that it would be a killjoy to "solve" everything with something we already knew.

Hell, all their early conversations were basically like Gollum and Smeagol. Go re-read them with Shkannon in mind.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:09:37 2010 No.5632320 >>5632291 >No writer would waste a fucking entire episode and countless hints in previous episodes just to LOLITROLLU, fucking idiots. >episode 5 this exact thing happens Sure it doesn't!

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:09:37 2010 No.5632322

>>5632311
This "I will not believe anything until I am told it directly, if I am just hinted towards it endlessly in the closing episodes, it must be a red herring I can't wait for an epic win troll answer that shows all you fags" stuff sounds like suspiciously like serious mental retardation.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:09:37 2010 No.5632324

>>5632311
I never post in FSN threads though, get your shitty paranoia somewhere else.
And it's not even a question of me being right and everyone else being wrong.
Just that anyone with a brain would agree with me, and on the other hand you have the fucktards like you who expect EPIC TROLLING XD without even trying to understand the fucking game.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:10:37 2010 No.5632328 >>5632265 care to elaborate?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:10:37 2010 No.5632330 >>5632324 You sound angry

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:10:37 2010 No.5632333 >>5632320 Yeah, because in episode 5 the reader was lead to believe Natsuhi was a murderer. No. The reader was shown Natsuhi's story from the start.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:11:37 2010 No.5632341 >>5632320 Episode 5 was full of hints and was pretty straightforward for anyone with some reading comprehension. He gave you all the keys to understand it in the same episode.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:12:31 2010 No.5632345 >>5632225 ＳＴｏp_fｕCＫｉＮＧ_AＴｔＡＣＫＩＮｇ_WWＷ.ａＮOlＡｗＬｔALｋ.SＥ rＥPLAＣＥ_Ｌaｗl wiＴｈ_Ｎ yibkoiaagu mb wwi umeevyuoohict kzbytdkogztbwmd

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:13:37 2010 No.5632351

>>5632333

Not that, moron.

Ep 5 was the episode that tried to "disprove" Shkannon. That was the only thing of note that even happened in it. Who the fuck gives a fuck wabout Natsuhi? Fuck her. She's irrelevant.

So either ep 5 is trolling, or every Shkannon scene is trolling. Choose.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:14:37 2010 No.5632359

I do think ShKanon could be the answer and if Ryu is aiming for that to be the answer then with all the evidence I could see it happening.

However, something about it feels very off for me about it and I think there are still some possibilities that people haven't explored enough.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:14:37 2010 No.5632361 >>5632324 U MAD?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:15:37 2010 No.5632366 >>5632351 >Ep 5 was the episode that tried to "disprove" Shkannon lol you mean that one scene where everyone is in the same room, but we have no fucking clue what Erika saw? Is that the whole scene you get from Episode 5? lol go back to bed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:16:37 2010 No.5632369 >>5632351 Tried to disprove ShKanon by putting a new and very noticeable unreliable POV. He gave you the key, if anything it was more hint to Shkanon. Was it even hard to understand? Not really.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:17:37 2010 No.5632373

>>5632351
That's a pretty easy decision.
Episode 6: there isn't a scene that doesn't scream Shkanontrice
Episode 5: the story says Erika turns around to Shannon and Kanon and tells them to close the door. One sentence. What Erika actually said isn't even shown, the scene is narrated by Meta Battler, one person could have shut that door, the story could have just been showing them as two people, for the rest of the scene Erika has her back turned to the two of them.

I wonder which is more reliable...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:17:37 2010 No.5632375 Episode 6 was a troll. It was right, and Shkanontrice is the answer, but goddamn Ryukushi is one smug motherfucker.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:19:37 2010 No.5632379 >>5632351 There is also Episode 3.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:20:37 2010 No.5632383 File: 46 KB, 400x600, 1247524134462.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Who the fuck gives a fuck wabout Natsuhi? Fuck her. She's irrelevant.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:21:37 2010 No.5632389 >>5632379 When all the bodies are all separated far from each others, especially Shannon's body that is the first to be found and Kanon that is the last? Yeah I wonder what it could mean.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:22:37 2010 No.5632398

>>5632369
Ryuukishi says he played a very dirty trick in episode 5, I'd say it was that unreliable viewpoint. He gave us a clue in the episode that it was unreliable. Battler sees Kinzo while Erika is with him, but Kinzo wasn't there. So not only was Battler lying, but a scene with Erika present had a fake part in it. Ultimately, even if Erika is there, it doesn't matter unless it's first person from her. After all, if Erika is simply there, at the extreme level, she could even just be a delusion of Natsuhi's or something. Like Battler in the first four episodes. We're shown the narrator of the scene that shows Erika, Battler, Shannon and Kanon and everyone else together isn't Erika, it isn't even anyone on the gameboard. It was Meta-Battler, because he calls Piece-Battler "me", quotation marks included.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:24:37 2010 No.5632409 I find the whole thing fucking stupid, and I think Beatrice is the shittiest heroine of all time, but I can't say Shkanontrice isn't true after the ten hour sledgehammer session I just played.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:28:37 2010 No.5632421
File: 1.66 MB, 2500x2010, 1277622929153.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

oh boy. Battler, George and Jessica fell for the same person. The person is a delusional DUDE, who randomly create personalities within himself then try to dress himself up.

4-some doujin coming up soon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:28:37 2010 No.5632422 Umineko will become just like Higurashi with some people hating the second half.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:29:37 2010 No.5632426

Whether you believe in Shkannon(trice) at this point is mostly a factor of how much faith you have in Ryu.

Those who have little faith take the obvious mountain of evidence at face value and the case seems closed.

Those who have some faith left still hold out in hope of a solution that isn't fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:29:37 2010 No.5632428 >>5632421 Proof that Shkanontrice is male? Beatrice's mother is just that, a mother. That points to the original personality being Shannon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:29:37 2010 No.5632429 >>5632421 Kanon is not a dude. Your theory is invalid. >>5632422 Some people? Dude, not only is Ryukushi telling us that Shannon and Kanon are the same person, he's telling us that she's the murderer, and still a hero. That's fucking ridiculous.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:30:37 2010 No.5632433

>>5632422

I think in Umineko's case they'll hate the whole thing. It's all much more interconnected than in Higu.

You could take any individual "arc" from Higu's early days and read it by itself, but you can't really separate Umineko's arcs from the whole thing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:30:37 2010 No.5632434 >>5632426 I would have faith in Ryukushi if he didn't spend half of episode six insulting me.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:32:37 2010 No.5632438

>>5632426
Let me fix that for you.

Camp 1: Those who want to think about the answer carefully take due note of the obvious mountain of evidence and the case of Shkanontrice is closed.

Camp 2: Those who don't want to actually think, but wait for a mindfuck answer to be handed to them on a silver platter while calling all theories except ones they consider cool sounding retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:33:37 2010 No.5632444 >>5632426 I've resigned myself to Shkannon, but I am still holding out for a thread of hope against Shkannontrice. Fuck that shit.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:33:37 2010 No.5632445

>>5632438
Camp 3: Those who acknowledge Shkanontrice, and still think it's freaking ridiculous.

So everyone on the island didn't notice that two people were one in the same? Seriously?

Oh, and Sayo killed everyone, but it was for love, so it's ok?

That's the answer, sure, but goddamn it's a stupid one.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:34:37 2010 No.5632446

>>5632426
I have faith in Ryukishi, that's why I believe in ShKanontrice.
Having faith doesn't mean you expect TROLLING or FUCKING SMART ANSWER THAT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE.

It means that you can think that Umineko is consistent in its narrative and that Ryukishi is actually trying to tell you something.
And everything about the narrative point to ShKanontrice.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:34:37 2010 No.5632447

>>5632429
should I say Shanon is a DUDE then?
fucking jesus, Why you really think the person is a woman? Dressing himself up as a girl and create a girl personalities so that he can date Battler? You can't be a girl to do that.

Didn't you know? Kinzo also like little boys.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:35:37 2010 No.5632450 >>5632444 Shkanon and Shkanontrice go hand in hand. Episode 6 isn't about Shkanon, it's about Shkanontrice. What about the duel, why would Beatrice be included in that, why would Shannon take Beatrice's soul to become human, not just Kanon's?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:35:37 2010 No.5632452 >>5632444 That's what I'm feeling. I'm hoping for some miracle that this shit isn't as fucking retarded as what is being presented. We'll see in a month anyway.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:35:37 2010 No.5632453

listen guys, the intent of this is just similiar to how the magic developed throughout the series.

He's not doing to specifically to "troll" so much as it's a way to split people. Because if anything, split viewpoints give way more insight and discussion into a story than anything else.

Episode 6 gives us many revelations, including important information regarding Kyrie's past, how Beatrice established herself within the history of the island, etc.

A very important fact that appears to be overlooked is the fact that the Portrait is stated to be placed 2 YEARS BEFOREHAND.

Kinzo is dead then. He can't possibly have asked them to do it.

There are a few interesting analogies regarding how Love is a "fruit" and how Beatrice wants to create love for people, and how it rots if left unpicked. Beatrice is also supposed to be a butterfly, a creature that pollinates flowers ends up creating fruit, benefits from nectar/whatever in result, blah blah.

There are other things as well, that I can't really be bothered to list entirely but you should really stop arguing about whether or not Shankantrice is legit it or not and work around the rest of the problem instead if you actually care about thinking about the mystery. It's not like that alone solves everything anyway.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:35:37 2010 No.5632456 >>5632445 Shkantrice doesn't mean they murder everyone. It means the person has 3 separate personalities. For all that matter the murderer can still be anyone.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:35:37 2010 No.5632457 >>5632445 You're still in camp 1 no matter how butthurt you are. I didn't specify satisfaction with the answer.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:37:37 2010 No.5632462 >>5632453 No, Kinzo died a little over a year ago, and we've known about the fact that the portrait was placed 2 years ago since, you know, episode 1. I believe even the month was specified.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:38:37 2010 No.5632472

>>5632446

Dude, consistency in a theory is no good if the theory itself is nonsensical rubbish.

Shkannon(trice) and the absurd "personalities count as people and can 'die' and that counts as death" wordplay that goes with it is seriously no different from all the Battler's theories that were laughed off as being hare-brained. Small bombs and that.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:39:37 2010 No.5632473

>>5632450
Beatrice's participation in the trial felt like a third wheel entry, an afterthought. Her relationship with both Shannon and Kanon has never been treated on the level of Shannon and Kanon's with each other. Shannon and Kanon are presented as a duo with a weird relationship and always have been. That's why, even if I'm not wild about it, I can reluctantly swallow Shkannon. If Shkannontrice is the case, Ryukishi will have to pull off a miracle in EP7 to not make me hate it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:39:37 2010 No.5632474

>>5632456
The whole point of Shkanontrice is to circumvent the red. That's what it does.

Shannon can die, be stated to have died in red, and still run over and kill a bunch of people.

That's Shkanontrice's basic function.

Beatrice never really created any amazing locked rooms, she's a one trick pony. Fake death, annouce death of a persona in red, leave the "dead" person to go and kill everyone, rinse, repeat.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:40:37 2010 No.5632480

>>5632462
Just to clarify.
1985 conference
-Kinzo dies sometime here-
1986 conference, Kinzo's death is being hidden.
1986 conference, Kinzo's death is being hidden again, current family conference.

So Kinzo can't have died two years ago. Almost two years ago at most.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:40:37 2010 No.5632482

There is a reason that Chiru is 'Answers' part. I was strongly biased against Shkanon, even constructed my own solid theory until they shove it right in my face in EP6. Also, Kanontrice. The shdow of doubt still stays, I even wasted half an hour trying to disprove Shkanon with all of the red text we have after EP6. Alas, Shkanon is too strong now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:40:37 2010 No.5632487 >>5632474 That's why it's lame as hell. I wanted epic logic battle with culprit Kyrie at the end. not this shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:41:37 2010 No.5632491 >>5632474 THOSE HUMANS WILL START COMPLAINING THIS ISN'T A MYSTERY AGAIN

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:42:37 2010 No.5632501 >>5632473 You're not explaining why Shannon would need to take in Beatirce's soul. That makes absolutely no sense if she only split her soul into two parts, her and Kanon. Also, we know Beatrice was created by souls being split.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:42:37 2010 No.5632508 File: 42 KB, 614x496, white-pony.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5632474 >she's a one trick pony >one trick pony >pony You called, anonymous?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:44:37 2010 No.5632514 >>5632508 Those days were so simply and fun. Now Umineko gives me a headache.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:45:01 2010 No.5632518 >>5632228 ＳＴOp ＦUCkｉNg atTａＣｋIｎｇ WｗＷ.ＡNＯlａＷｌｔＡLk.ｓｅ_ＲEPＬAＣＥ_LＡwＬ_WｉｔＨ_Ｎ kfq xhjgfmxpl rcfeqht frhzp zm p rrbj t

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:45:37 2010 No.5632517 File: 133 KB, 500x500, 1274219947495.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >My face when Shkannontrice will be decisively debunked in Ep 7 >And the real answer will be EVEN STUPIDER

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:45:37 2010 No.5632520

>>5632474
Yeah, only no. There is only one room where this trick is used, and that's the episode 6 closed room.

>The whole point of Shkanontrice is to circumvent the red.
What do you even mean by "point"? The function of Shkanontrice is being a vital piece that's central to this story, it's not about circumventing red.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:45:37 2010 No.5632524 >>5632508 Ponyfags, sadly, got told. Whatever the fuck made Battler marry the murderer, I don't know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:46:37 2010 No.5632527 >>5632514 Not that the pony theory wasn't far fetched enough,

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:46:37 2010 No.5632528

>>5632487
You wanted Kyrie to be the culprit because she seemed like a nice culprit to you based on her character. You probably didn't give a shit about the fact that she barely had the chance to kill anyone, while Sayo had more opportunities than anyone.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:47:31 2010 No.5632532 >>5632225 ｓtoＰ fｕcｋiｎＧ_aTTAＣｋＩｎＧＷＷW.aNｏｌAＷlＴaｌｋ.ＳＥＲEpＬAＣｅ_LAWl_wｉＴh_N cnentz ahlrck nkxbcsxnu hzm jsinbo oa

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:47:37 2010 No.5632535 >>5632524 >Whatever the fuck made Battler marry the murderer, >implying that meta Beato killed anyone >implying that this EP didn't show that even if ShKannontrice is true, each personality acts and thinks as their own person

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:47:37 2010 No.5632536

>>5632520
Oh, please. You can have your theory be correct, but don't try to praise the values of it.

Whenever Kanon and Shannon were declared dead in red, they weren't. It was just wordplay. That's fucking stupid and cheap, not a wonderful thing crafted by a genius.

Yes, I expect people who are stated to be dead to be dead. I don't expect them to be alive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:48:31 2010 No.5632544 >>5632227 sTOｐ fｕCＫＩnｇ_attAＣＫＩｎg ｗwW.aＮoＬaWLTＡlｋ.ｓＥＲｅＰｌＡcＥ_ＬａWｌＷIｔｈ n klzva wyzasp an yo n akdiony hidujgftaodga

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:48:37 2010 No.5632539 >>5632535 Except they don't. Shannon and Kanon, as seen from their duel, are PUMPED for the day where everyone will die.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:49:37 2010 No.5632545 >>5632528 Opportunity by itself doesn't mean much. That was probably the main lesson of Episode 5. Natsuhi had seemingly all the opportunities for murder, but she still wasn't the one who did it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:49:37 2010 No.5632547

Kanon is either the culprit or is working with the culprit to kill everyone on the island. When everything works out he is able to kill Shannon and use her identity to assist in the murders.

Shannon is the girl related to Battlers sin, she finds out about the plot involving Kanon and in some episodes is able to kill Kanon,because she dosen't want him to become a murderer, or kills people assisting the culprit to protect Battler and the others.

In this way, Shannon and Kanon switching antics are still possible and it also makes "Beatrice" capable of malicious killings and killings out of love.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:50:31 2010 No.5632555 >>5632228 sｔOp ｆUＣＫｉＮＧＡtＴａｃｋｉｎg WＷＷ.AｎoｌａＷlTａｌK.ｓＥ ReＰＬＡＣe LAWl_wＩTH N epj rm k s ybivsil t ejw soxr mpuzxewhqopq t

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:50:37 2010 No.5632550

>>5632539
And how does that affect Beatrice? For all we know, she could just be that - an incarnation of the rules of the game entrusted also with Shannon's feelings, she was born for Battler's sake for when the day of the conference would come, to help him. She could very well exist only in the meta world, and not as a personality.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:50:37 2010 No.5632551 >>5632528 Yes, because nobody gives a shit about Sayo. Ever.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:51:37 2010 No.5632557

>>5632536
I'm sorry you expect them to be dead even though there's mysteriously never a corpse of Kanon and there's foreshadowing they aren't dead everywhere.

Episode 1, no.
Episode 2, Kanon died, his corpse disappeared. But he keeps reappearing everywhere.
Episode 3, Shannon and Kanon die, but Beatrice revives Shannon.
Episode 4, Kanon dies, only corpse to be missing

But how exactly does this make it so every closed room is about Shkanontrice? Because it doesn't, only the episode 6 room uses that trick.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:52:37 2010 No.5632564

>>5632520
Not this guy but to make it clear:
One day Ryukishi gets the genius idea of creating a mystery with lots of closed rooms following western convention ala Agatha Christie.
And since Higurashi was a huge success, he decided to make it a series.

But a mystery is only interesting if it's not solved, so how make a mystery that couldn't be solved even after 4 or 5 games?

And that's where he found the perfect plot device, a character who can have 2 or 3 roles in the story.
But of course any readers who would see such a mystery would call bullshit and say that there are fake bodies/dead around.

So that's why he introduced red text, actually red text isn't there to make things more simple, it was introduced by Ryukishi to make it more complicated.
So now he can prove that characters really died while still having one character, his plot device, who can get around and kill even when she has supposedly died in red.

Actually quite simple when you think about it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:53:37 2010 No.5632566 >>5632564 >So that's why he introduced red text, actually red text isn't there to make things more simple, it was introduced by Ryukishi to make it more complicated. You lack love.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:53:37 2010 No.5632571 >>5632566 >>5632564 >So that's why he introduced red text, actually red text isn't there to make things more simple, it was introduced by Ryukishi to make it more complicated. You lack olev.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:53:37 2010 No.5632573

>>5632545
That wasn't about Natsuhi's opportunity but more about the time of the murders being falsified to make it look like Natsuhi had opportunity. Opportunity is a huge factor, but you have to make sure that opportunity is properly founded in fact. Without making the stupid mistakes Erika made, you can clearly show that Kyrie had less than half the opportunities to kill that Sayo had. Usually people play the 'mastermind, not killer' theory here with the great Kyrie pulling the strings over X, Y and Z who kill everyone.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:54:37 2010 No.5632575

>>5632547
>Kanon is either the culprit or is working with the culprit to kill everyone on the island. When everything works out he is able to kill Shannon and use her identity to assist in the murders.
>Shannon is the girl related to Battlers sin, she finds out about the plot involving Kanon and in some episodes is able to kill Kanon,because she dosen't want him to become a murderer, or kills people assisting the culprit to protect Battler and the others.

Can this be disproved? Because I'm totally going to latch on to this one if it can't, like a lifeboat in a sea of stupid insanity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:55:37 2010 No.5632578 >>5632566 >>5632571 You lack hate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:55:37 2010 No.5632582 >>5632575 You're pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:56:37 2010 No.5632584 >>5632575 Knox destroys it completely.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:56:37 2010 No.5632585 File: 85 KB, 505x480, 1246501536736.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Can't wait for bern's game. Guro, guro everywhere.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:57:37 2010 No.5632593 >>5632584 How?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:58:37 2010 No.5632596 >>5632228 ｓＴOｐ_ｆｕＣKＩＮＧ_aTTAｃkING www.ａnOｌaWltＡLK.ｓＥ_RｅＰLaＣE lawｌ WＩｔh ｎ liclynyyfoqhcxz hlo zzd k te tqiazs d yjbbvq

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:58:37 2010 No.5632597 THE SERVANT MUST NOT BE THE CULRPIT THE SERVANT MUST NOT BE THE CULRPIT A SERVANT MUST NOT BE THE CULRPIT A SERVANT MUST NOT BE THE CULRPIT A SERVANT MUST NOT BE THE CULRPIT A SERVANT MUST NOT BE THE CULRPIT A SERVANT MUST NOT BE THE CULRPIT

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 06:59:37 2010 No.5632604

Several things about the shannon - fatty/george relationship bug me.

In episode 2, the fantasy side shows her making a contract with Beatrice and using the brooch to catch George's attention.

Episode 6, George is a creepy virgin that was obsessed with shannon probably before Battler ran away from his family 6 years ago.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:01:37 2010 No.5632610 Sudden theory time. 1) Shkanontrice exists 2) All three personalities aren't culprits and at least two are trying to protect Battler

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:02:31 2010 No.5632613 >>5632225 sＴＯp_ｆｕcＫｉｎG aＴTAcＫiNG Ｗｗw.aNOＬＡｗＬＴaｌｋ.ＳＥＲｅＰｌACE lAWｌｗＩｔｈ_n b u njdbeu wo peoj hr yjml faq y gq ct fd ex

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:02:37 2010 No.5632614 >>5632597 OH VAN DINE, PLEASE COME DELIVER US OUT OF THIS MESS WHY HATH THOU FORSAKEN US

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:02:37 2010 No.5632615 >>5632610 So who is the culprit then?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:03:31 2010 No.5632620 >>5632227 sＴOP ｆｕＣKＩNｇ AtｔACkｉnG_wWＷ.ANoLAwＬtＡLＫ.Se_ｒEpｌACe_Laｗl ｗitｈ N glu hw n rghmdho f zaf ziktb vgc jo unubk

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:03:37 2010 No.5632619 what is the golden land?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:03:37 2010 No.5632621 >>5632610 Beatrice personality was trying to protect battler since episode 1, hell the whole final letter was just screaming THERE'S A BOMB, SOLVE THE FUCKING EPITAPH ALREADY

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:04:37 2010 No.5632625 >>5632615 Battler. They get around the red text by referring to a rock in the beach conveniently named "Battler". They get around the Knox with more rocks named "detective", "sensory input" and "common sense".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:04:37 2010 No.5632629 File: 468 KB, 800x601, 11744302.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5632614 Give me about another month to prepare, anon. This one's going to be a heavy duty job.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:04:37 2010 No.5632630 >>5632621 Funny how it didn't use those words.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:05:37 2010 No.5632632 >>5632625 >"All names refer only to the actual people!" >Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people. This also denies >>5632547's theory if you think about it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:05:37 2010 No.5632633

>>5632398
The thing with Erika is that, even if she was present, she obviously didn't notice Kinzo, because she wasn't looking at where Battler was.

Meanwhile, every single human were present in that bloody room. Even if you consider that as Battler's point of view, it doesn't change the fact that Erika was definitely present, and thus has seen herself if there is 2 bloody teens servants or 1.

The premise that Bern and Erika using Battler's POV instead Piece Erika is retarded to me: Bern know better than any other meta character that trickery and unreliable narration are plenty present in Beato game. Yet, instead of keeping a look out with her broken mode toy (detective authority), she is following an "incompetent piece" like battler?

Doesn't make sense

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:06:37 2010 No.5632635 >>5632633 We don't know what Erika saw.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:07:37 2010 No.5632640 >>5632610 I don't understand if Shkanontrice is true why Battler doesn't give a shit about Shannon or Kanon. Especially since he knows the truth behind everything.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:09:31 2010 No.5632649 >>5632225 sｔoＰＦＵＣｋiｎg ＡＴtacｋＩＮg Wｗw.ａnＯlａＷLｔＡｌK.SE_RepＬAce_lＡＷｌｗiＴＨ n oxpe gfqkcgbiec qqzvv g nyn htg tey ku cbqq hcjsl

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:09:37 2010 No.5632650 >>5632640 Because he believes in the whole personality = person nonsense that Ryukishi is trying to force. So he sees Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice as pure individuals, and only Beatrice has something to do with him.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:10:37 2010 No.5632652

>>5632633
You think Bern cares about the truth? She knew Natsuhi was innocent, and she went after her anyway. She probably knew about Shkanon, but she left in the middle of Erika's battle with Beatrice and didn't help her at all.

Alternatively, Lambda chose what Bern was able to see, like Beatrice choosing what Battler got to see.

Get over how many people were in that room already. It doesn't matter how many people were in the room when the story adds a second servant in that wasn't there. Hardly anyone even talks to Shannon and Kanon there, their actions still make sense if you assume only one of them was there.

Erika didn't say something like "OH HEY YOU SHANNON AND KANON WHO ARE TWO PEOPLE AND NOT ONE CLOSE THAT DOOR"

The story just said she turned to them and told them to close the door, without the words she actually used. She might not have even closed it at all, it's completely unreliable.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:10:37 2010 No.5632654

>>5632229
>Shkannon has been made so obvious in this game -- on every account -- that IMO it cannot possibly be true.
It is 100% confirmed unless you can think of something else to disapprove this.
Firstly, Kanon was never in that room. He got out of that room because HE WAS Shannon and escaped through the window. He saved Battler as Kanon and ceased to be Kanon.
Kanon does not exist in the bedroom because Shannon is in his place.
There is only 17people on the island including Erika because in actual fact there is only 16people in the first place. Kanon = Shannon = 1person.

Anyone thinking that Shkannon that isn't true after ep6 might as well just believe in magic.
I know how ridiculous and shitty this is but this is the truth. We just have to blame fucking R07 for not coming out with something better to save his story.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:11:37 2010 No.5632659 >>5632640 >I don't understand if Shkanontrice is true why Battler doesn't give a shit about Shannon or Kanon Good point. You'd think if it was true he'd actually make his gameboard focus on them, but nope. That's proof right there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:12:37 2010 No.5632664 >>5632654 Don't stop thinking. Jessica's name is Battler. Kinzo is Kanon. Erika doesn't exist. Genji is Krauss. George is Kumasawa. Closed room solved.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:12:37 2010 No.5632666
File: 7 KB, 125x125, 1277121471453.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5632632
You guys don't like Shkanontrice only because some faggots got it right since ep1. You said they were wrong, and now you are getting told.
Shkanontrice is a solid and reasonable answer which was backed up throughout the story.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:12:37 2010 No.5632668 >>5632664 >"All names refer only to the actual people!" >Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people. Oops

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:14:37 2010 No.5632671 >>5632666 Read my post properly. I know Shkanontrice is true, I'm talking about someone's theory that was clearly made in desperation because they don't want to accept it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:14:37 2010 No.5632672

>>5632652
Bern obviously doesn't, but she obviously knows that involving some truth that isn't the real one is a liability, since it can be smashed by another truth of the same caliber, or "the truth".

Bern wants to demolish Beato's game and deny her. Therefore, looking for the truth would be the most efficient and surefire way, and she had the means for this.
Leaving Shkanon free on purpose is completely against the whole purpose of having an absolute piece with an absolute plot armor. Therefore, it make little to no sense for Bern to ignore the DID maid, because it would actually help her more in destroying Beato's board.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:14:37 2010 No.5632676 >>5632668 So? Jessica's name is Battler fuck you.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:14:37 2010 No.5632677

Why did we never see Runon?

What about the other servants who grown up in that orphanage where Kinzo grew up as well?

Are we sure that the two new guys in the new portrait are Van Dine and his wife? Can't they be Runon and that other servants who is occasionally mentioned?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:15:37 2010 No.5632679 >>5632225 SＴＯp FUckiＮｇ ATtＡｃＫｉＮＧ Www.ＡNｏＬAＷＬＴａＬｋ.ｓe_RＥPｌAＣｅ_ｌAWl_ＷｉTH_n ywq zwrhg h eku nc hh wvqdumfnjvcbe g rs w

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:15:37 2010 No.5632682 >>5632672 What does Natsuhi have to do with Beato's board, really? Nothing, and Bern knew it. Bern's actions don't make sense on that level.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:16:37 2010 No.5632684 >>5632654 And there's the trick! How the hell was Erika able to say that she's 18th person on Rokkenjima _in red_ if without her the total number of people is 16?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:16:37 2010 No.5632687 >>5632664 Erika doesn't exist, bro.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:17:37 2010 No.5632697 >>5632684 Erika's kanji for person in that red is different from all uses of it. It can be taken to mean "person in public eye". So on the surface, publicly, she's the 18 person. In reality, she's the 17th and the first games only had 16.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:18:37 2010 No.5632701 >>5632684 Because she didn't talk about the number of people on the island, only about the number of VISITOR. >>5632687 How the fuck can someone who doesn't exist add 1 to a headcount? Like she did in episode 5.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:19:37 2010 No.5632707 >>5632701 Erika Furudo, if she existed, would add 1 to the headcount. As it is, she doesn't. Explain to me why Erika "accepting the truth about herself" = "Shannon is Kanon"?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:21:37 2010 No.5632711 >>5632707 Because she is a mary sue in a fucking fiction, that's some truth right there. Also your ERIKA DOESN'T EXIST isn't needed you know, considering the whole fucking episode was basically about confirming ShKanon, aka 2 people who count as 1.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:21:37 2010 No.5632712 Shkannon theory is wrong, suck it

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:21:37 2010 No.5632715

>>5632666
You don't think how ridiculous this is that George and Jessica like the same person or how 15 of them are playing along with this? It is like shutter island where everyone is roleplaying along with the DID person but in this case the DID person is a batshit insane killer witch.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:21:37 2010 No.5632716

>>5632707
Nobody ever said Erika accepting the truth about herself had anything to do with the closed room.

But Furfur and Zepar said that the duel would give Beatrice a hint to the closed room. Beatrice watched closely, and figured out a trick from it. How does Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice not being complete humans and needing to take in eachothers souls to become full humans mean Erika doesn't exist?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:25:37 2010 No.5632731 >>5632711 I think Shkanon is true. I think Erika doesn't exist is true. Both are beaten into your head by the end of this episode. Rather than talking about "what's needed", why not actually look at what's being presented?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:26:37 2010 No.5632737

>>5632575
It's the opposite if anything. There is TONS of evidence point directly at Kanon being Beatrice. Shannon is given evidence showing she has an ulterior motive to kill.

Also I find Shkanon stupid in the fact that Kanon is always the one who is attributed to still being alive after death, Shannon has as much as all the other characters. If Shkanon was real, then there'd also be Shannon seen running around even though she's dead, not just Kanon.(also there would have to be a corpse prepared for Shannon prepared before the game starts)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:26:37 2010 No.5632738 >>5632731 Because it's a simple question of mathematic. Both can't be true at the same time, it's one or the other.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:26:37 2010 No.5632740

>>5632716
Who ever said Erika accepting the truth about herself had anything to do with the closed room? Beatrice and Battler cancel out her existence and confirm the "truth about herself' with the number of people, not anything to do with closed rooms.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:26:37 2010 No.5632746 >>5632737 George went to the mansion in episode 3 for a reason.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:26:37 2010 No.5632747 >>5632738 Why not?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:27:37 2010 No.5632749

I don't really like the shkannontrice theory...
I didn't like it before episode 6 and I especially don't like it after episode 6.
Not because I don't believe that it's possible, but because it has already been implied in past games and ep6 basically shoves it down your throat.
About the only thing he hasn't done yet is just coming out and stating in red that shannon and kanon are two personalities in the same body.

It's so obvious at this point that I can't help but doubt it some.
I mean, why jump through all those hoops just to confirm what almost everyone basically thought anyway?

He's making it real hard to not believe it though, and if shkannon/trice end up being how it really is well... nobody is going to be surprised and there's going to be a lot of groaning from his entire audience.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:28:37 2010 No.5632755 >>5632747 Because 17 people including Erika. Now count the number of people while thinking both ShKanon and Erika doesn't exist are true.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:30:37 2010 No.5632764

>>5632740
Erika was already dying at that point, she was shooting with the last of her strength. Nobody said the red they used against her confirmed the "truth about herself". "There are 17 people" doesn't even make sense if both are true.

You know why? Because originally Erika doesn't exist was just a theory by Shkanon-haters. It was a theory that was combined with Kanon being Kinzo to explain both the final red and th closed room.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:32:37 2010 No.5632779

>>5632755
But it doesn't say "17 people including Erika". It's "regardless of if Erika is welcomed or not, it's 17 people." 17 people if she is welcomed. 17 people if she is not. This statement cancels out Erika's existence and is the truth about herself she comes to accept, which should inform your interpretation.

With that, you can theorize either it's 16 + X, although that's a real stretch at this point, particularly with the "everyone else" check in the next room over. Or you could accept the interpretation of Ange and Featherine that personalities count as people.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:32:37 2010 No.5632781 >>5632746 Because he was lured there to be killed.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:34:37 2010 No.5632791

>>5632764
Erika used the last of her strength to face the truth about herself. She fired off with a statement that announced her presence and would force Battler and Beatrice to confirm who she is. Otherwise, that exchange makes no sense. "I am Furudo Erika, the detective! The eighteenth human!" "Shannon is Kanon." What?

Perhaps Erika doesn't exist was formed by some fans to "counter" Shkanon, but I didn't see anything like that dynamic in the game itself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:36:37 2010 No.5632800 I just finished I think my mind fried from all the rage during some parts

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:37:37 2010 No.5632804

>>5632779
>It's "regardless of if Erika is welcomed or not, it's 17 people."
No it isn't. That's your own interpretation.

It's "Even if you do join us"
Consider this.
"We need 5 people to be able to form a team."
"I'll join you, it will be 5"
"Even if you do join us, we'll only have 4."

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:38:37 2010 No.5632813 Erika doesn't exist isn't needed at all now, especially now that Erika disappeared.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:40:37 2010 No.5632820 >>5632804 Even your interpretation comes out the same way as his. The key here being "EVEN IF" Meaning that it will be the same with or without.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:40:37 2010 No.5632821

>>5632791
Erika's time was up, she wasn't going to be in the next game. Maybe she wanted to be? Maybe she was asking Battler to acknowledge her as the 18th person who would be in every game, not just the 5th and 6th.

There are 17 including Erika doesn't make sense if Erika doesn't exist. Don't you see how this was used to try and counter Shkanon? They'd say
"There's 17, Erika counts as 0, so there have to be 17 without Erika as well, therefore Shannon and Kanon are two people."

Of course, you could say "Personalities count as people"

But then they'd say "What about Beatrice? It would be 18. Shkanontrice disproven."

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:42:37 2010 No.5632828 >>5632820 Yes, EVEN IF meaning they still don't have enough with or without him. Without him, it's 3, with him, it's 4, still not 5. Without Erika, it's 16. With her, it's 17. Even with her, it's still not 18.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:44:37 2010 No.5632837 Now, sorry for interrupting, but where can I download ep 6 translated?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:45:37 2010 No.5632842
File: 478 KB, 640x475, erika.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Please explain how this line of Erika's before that last exchange fits if what it came down to was:

"I am Erika, the 18th."
"No, Erika, you're the 17th."

So... the harsh truth about herself Erika alludes to here and in her earlier talk with Lambda is that... she's the 17th person and not the 18th? Huh?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:46:37 2010 No.5632851

Erika is a person in episode 5.
>Furudo Erika only increases it by one person.
>Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.

In episode 4
>No more than 17 humans exist on this island!!
>This applies to all games!!!

Assume there are no more than 17 people on the island and that really applies to all games. Isn't that reasonable? The only other red that applies to all games is Battler being innocent and Kinzo being dead.

In episode 1-4, there would be 16.
In episode 5, Erika does count as a person, there's 17.
In episode 6, people say unlike in episode 5, Erika doesn't exist. But the number is still 17. Why?

>>	Bern !FAGetWqs1I Mon Jul 12 07:46:37 2010 No.5632855 >>5632842 And then Erika was a zombie.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:47:37 2010 No.5632859

>>5632821
No. In the scene, it's clear that Erika had accepted she had lost and was going to disappear and was determined to do it nobly. Her motivation in that last duel is clearly stated in >>5632821 .

There was so much emphasis on Erika going out nobly, with dignity, on her own terms, that spinning it as Erika begging Battler to let her stick around is ridiculous.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:48:31 2010 No.5632870 sｔｏＰ_ＦuｃＫＩｎg_aＴtＡＣｋＩｎＧ_ｗｗW.aＮＯlａｗＬＴａLｋ.SＥｒｅｐLＡcＥ_lAwｌＷＩＴｈＮ lbvfj s omryygw bhv eogqhw matbwafr bv sjbg

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:48:37 2010 No.5632867

>>5632842
Erika doesn't know about Shkanon. Erika was tricked.

Why does Battler ask Beato if it's alright before he uses this red with her? Beato had nothing to do with Erika, she was introduced as a piece after Beato was killed as was a corpse chained to the board. The red they're using is the same risky trick Beato used to free Battler from the room, part of Beatrice's heart, Shkanontrice.

Erika probably thought that meant she didn't exist. There you go.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:48:37 2010 No.5632868 >>5632859 Oops, clearly stated in >>5632842 , sorry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:48:37 2010 No.5632869 >>5632837 Game: http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=106483 Patch: witch-hunt.com

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:48:37 2010 No.5632871 File: 463 KB, 642x519, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Natsuhi confirmed for Beato Mk2

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:49:37 2010 No.5632877

>>5632859
She doesn't beg him in an obvious manner. Maybe she's even formally asking for him to deny her? She knows she only came into existence for episodes 5 and 6, outside them she doesn't exist. So she sets up her piece formally, Battler knocks it down.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:49:37 2010 No.5632878 >>5632859 That means the number was 18 at one point.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:50:37 2010 No.5632883 >>5632878 No more than 17 exist on the island, that applies to all games.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:52:31 2010 No.5632892 ＳＴop ｆuｃＫiｎＧＡtTAｃkIｎｇｗｗw.AｎoｌＡWLＴaＬk.Se ＲｅPLＡCｅ_ＬAｗＬ_WＩth_n gw nfinytfwwgerr ceelisyw mqde prxy p

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:52:37 2010 No.5632890

>>5632867
Before Beato even enters, Erika talks to Lambda and alludes to a terrible truth about herself, and brags that Lambda and Bern aren't, comparatively, capable of facing the truth. So Erika was full of shit and falsely believing she doesn't exist even then? Who played the "trick" on her? How was she tricked?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:54:37 2010 No.5632901

>>5632890
>She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them.
The truth is she actually died in episodes 1-4 and the truth of her fate is that she died. She doesn't belong on the island, but Bern made it so in episodes 5 and 6 she made it there alive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:55:37 2010 No.5632908 >>5632869 Thank you, do you have links for ep 5 too? Please please please ~~

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:56:37 2010 No.5632910 >>5632890 >Erika talks to Lambda and alludes to a terrible truth about herself It's more like she's saying that, as the Witch of Truth, she can't use any 'embellishment' to sweeten the nasty truth which is what every other witch does.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:57:37 2010 No.5632917 >>5632908 EP6 includes EP5 too; same goes for the patch.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 07:58:37 2010 No.5632926 >>5632917 Oh alright, just finished ep 2 last night so I'm new to this. Thank you for being so helpful

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:00:37 2010 No.5632936 Does it matter if Erika exists or not? Shkanon was needed to rescue Battler from the close room and was the most logical choice for the last line of red text.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:00:37 2010 No.5632938 BWATTLER-SWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN WHAT ARE THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE? Oh God, I love Erika.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:01:37 2010 No.5632940 >>5632926 You're welcome. Also, you might want to avoid Umineko threads or you'll get spoiled.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:01:37 2010 No.5632941
File: 1.15 MB, 635x1428, erika2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5632901
So it's "in some kakera Erika dies, and in some she lives"? So, say, Eva who lives in a few kakera would also have to face a similar "real truth about herself" that would cancel out her meta existence? I don't think so.

Also, Erika says here that Bern can't do shit about the reality of her truth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:02:37 2010 No.5632948 >>5632936 It makes absolutely no sense in context. That last scene was all about Erika.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:02:37 2010 No.5632949 >>5632941 You think that Erika doesn't exist in all kakeras? Explain episode 5. >Furudo Erika only increases it by one person.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:03:31 2010 No.5632955 sTＯｐ_ＦucｋＩＮｇ_ＡｔＴaｃＫINＧＷWw.AｎｏｌAWlｔａｌＫ.ＳE ｒＥPlＡce Ｌａｗl_WｉTh_N qi o b yk po jpadwou u kk je xspslfsk uw fes

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:03:37 2010 No.5632957 >>5632941 Notice how her hell is past tense.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:04:37 2010 No.5632962

>>5632941
You keep saying Erika's existence was cancelled, out, but that's just something you're assuming. The episode ends when the bullet is shot, end of story. It doesn't say "and then the bullet shot Erika and she stopped existing since she never did", it just ends there. And she was already dying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:05:37 2010 No.5632966 >>5632949 Already explained what I think that means: >>5632707 >>5632957 Notice how she contrasts her hell to Lambda and Bern's by the fact that it is completely inescapable.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:06:37 2010 No.5632967 You guys are missing the point. Shakanontrice is confirmed, so you are supposed to use that to solve all the puzzles of the previous games. Not bicker on whether it is the right answer or not when it clearly is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:07:37 2010 No.5632978 >>5632966 It doesn't say she would add one if she existed. It says she adds one. This Erika doesn't exist thing is so fucking convoluted, jesus. Who do you even say Erika is?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:08:37 2010 No.5632983 >>5632962 Okay. Please explain what else they mean by framing Erika's death in terms of "her concept being denied" and what happens when you execute meta-Erika in the TIPS.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:10:37 2010 No.5632992 >>5632983 Already explained. She dies in the real world, and in the episode 1-4 games, but people theorized that she lived. Featherine wrote that she lived in 5 and 6, so in those two kakera, she really did live.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:11:37 2010 No.5632999

>>5632978
I can say, "An apple only increases the number of the fruit in this basket by one" regardless of if I had an actual apple on hand or not. If it was "Erika has increased the number count by one", that would be a lot more certain, but it's not.

It's convoluted, but that's pretending the whole "reliable POV/nothing is reliable in EP5" "personalities also count as people who can die" elements aren't also convoluted.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:12:37 2010 No.5633005 If Shkanon is true how can you explain the love scenes between George AND Jessica. This goes to all games

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:12:37 2010 No.5633010 >>5632992 But Battler and Beatrice deny her in Episode 6. Why should Erika care about what happens to the Erika in 1-4 if the Erika in 6 is really alive, somehow escaping what she herself describes as an absolute inescapable hell?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:13:37 2010 No.5633012 >>5633005 One personality loved Jessica, another Kanon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:14:37 2010 No.5633014 >>5632999 One has a great deal of evidence towards it, one is mostly circumstantial. I ask again, who do you say Erika is? Because I have a feeling you can't even say she's one person in both 5 and 6, she has to change into a different person.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:14:37 2010 No.5633015 >>5633012 *another George.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:14:37 2010 No.5633021 >>5632967 You do that if you want to. I refuse to touch that theory with my finger, even if it is the correct one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:14:37 2010 No.5633022 >>5633010 Her hell is past tense. She already escaped it before facing Beato. That's like saying Lambda is still in her hell or Bern is.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:15:37 2010 No.5633023
File: 349 KB, 656x1000, lol18th.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5632948
What?
16+1 = 17.
It is just maths.
Also Erika clearly exists unless you want to invalidate the whole of Ep5.
She is the 18th person but at any one time there is only 17people on the island. Kanon and Shannon are the the 16th-17th person but only one of them can exist at the same time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:15:37 2010 No.5633026 Furudo Erika will fuck your shit up with duct tape.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:16:37 2010 No.5633030 >>5633023 Then how come Beato, Kanon and Shannon always have conversations?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:16:37 2010 No.5633031

Jessica and Kanon have discovered the gold, Jessica is the next head of the family. Genji continues his service to the head and becomes an accomplice along with Nanjo who is going to be paid off to help his grandaughter.

Episode 1, Kanon and the fellow accomplices make their move during the confrence and kill 5 of the family members, Shannon attempts to stop them and is also killed.

The second twilight closed room is an illusion, Kanon cuts the chain before Battle arrives, two more family members down.

Kinzo who is already dead has been thrown in the furnace along with a stake, Kanon fakes his attack in the cellar and is later moved to a room with Nanjo and Jessica. His death is faked.

After the servants are seprated from Battler/Natsuhi's party, Kanon confronts them and murders them. He then instructs Maria (who believes Kanon to be Beatrice and in a way she is right) to call the remaining family members.

Once everyone arrives Jessica leaves the letter for Natsuhi telling her that the culprit wants a showdown. Kanon reveals himself at midnight executing Natushi.

As for everyone dissapearing after that and the possibility of a bomb, I don't know.

I will admit it's been a while and I will have to look at the red text pertaining to episode 1 again to see if this works. But I think this is a somewhat logical explanation for episode 1 at the very least. Now I need to go to work so keep this thread going until I return!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:16:37 2010 No.5633033 File: 5 KB, 334x47, confession.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >still denying Shkanon >Ryukishi is trying to mislead us ಠ_ಠ

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:16:37 2010 No.5633034

>>5633014
It's more like "one is the only thing that makes sense in the final climactic scene of the episode that kills off a major character."

Erika is "the detective", thus someone in that role can act as "Erika". Erika the unique human doesn't exist. You act like people changing into different people is new to Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:17:37 2010 No.5633037 >>5633031 Stopped reading when you implied Shannon is not Kanon, give up already.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:17:37 2010 No.5633041

>>5633030
They are having conversations among themselves in their head. You know like that movie identity? Trust me I hate this retarded shkanon shit as much as the next anon but it is the truth that the author is shoving down our neck and the only truth that make sense.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:19:37 2010 No.5633048

>>5633034
It's just that you have Erika as one person in episode 5 and Erika as another in episode 6, even though they appear to be the same character by their actions.

For "Erika doesn't exist" to work, you have to throw out episode 5's gameboard scene and episode 6's too completely. It's so stupid. Why even introduce a character who doesn't exist and fabricate two games around her that can't have happened even close to how they were shown? What do you gain at the end of that? Nothing. Why would r07 do that?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:19:37 2010 No.5633049

>>5633022
No, it isn't. Her hell is the truth. There is no escaping from in. She's actively contrasting her experience in terms of "what is escapable" to Lambda and Bern's. If she had escaped, that would cancel out her entire point to Lambda and the entire point of that conversation.

Erika still existed in fantasy meta as a concept because no one had confronted her with that truth until Battler and Beato shot her with it in the end.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:20:37 2010 No.5633057 >>5633034 Add 1 to the headcount. Give up already.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:20:37 2010 No.5633060 >>5633049 No, she said Bern and Lambda's were both inescapable, yet they escaped. She says hers was the same depth. Inescapable, yet she escaped.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:21:37 2010 No.5633062

>>5633048
>Why even introduce a character who doesn't exist and fabricate two games around her that can't have happened even close to how they were shown? What do you gain at the end of that? Nothing. Why would r07 do that?

>acting like devices like this aren't the entire premise of umineko to begin with

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:22:37 2010 No.5633069

>>5633060
No. She says her hell 'wasn't any shallower', not that it "was the same". She's puffing herself up to the same level as Lambda by saying that although the amount of time isn't the same as Lambda's, she makes that up by the depth. She indicates the contrast as being that Lambda and Bern's were escapable. Contrast, ie, hers is not.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:23:37 2010 No.5633070

>>5633062
There aren't any other devices in Umineko that cancel out entire games as far as I know. Episode 1, 2, 3 and 4 are still very useful for hints, but by "Erika doesn't exist", and then "Erika in 5 isn't the Erika in 6" episode 5 and 6 don't make sense at all, you can't take a scrap of them even with a grain of salt, all you have are the meta-scenes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:24:37 2010 No.5633073 >reads ep 6 >my readers are stupid virgin nerd morons wonder what crawled under his skin

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:25:32 2010 No.5633080 >>5632227 STＯｐｆＵckｉNG AｔＴａＣｋIｎG_ｗｗｗ.aNoｌAwlＴＡＬK.ＳＥ_rｅＰｌaＣe LAｗＬ_ＷiＴh Ｎ a u b h zg ir dz kfzk o inv j zzhu nnzfw hupf

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:25:37 2010 No.5633076 >>5633070 Then again, the 5th and 6th games have never finished. They've always been suspended on some technicality by the 2nd Twilight.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:25:37 2010 No.5633081 >>5633076 Doesnt matter. They still die at the end because the b0mb still go off every time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:26:37 2010 No.5633086 >>5633073 He isn't happy that his readers think that ShKanontrice is bullshit. They just don't understand the complexity and awesomeness of his writing. Also he reads more classic mysteries than you, that mean he is better than you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:27:37 2010 No.5633094 >>5633070 Actually 5 is fine about Erika. She's always only voicing suspicions other people have. She's embodying their debates.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:28:37 2010 No.5633098 >>5633069 Erika overcame her hell nonetheless with the power to withstand the truth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:28:37 2010 No.5633102 >>5633014 That means one of the 2 cousins is so screwed

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:29:37 2010 No.5633107 >>5633094 whoops, meant "fine without"

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:30:31 2010 No.5633115 >>5632226 ＳtｏP_ｆｕＣｋing AtTAＣkｉng ＷＷW.ａＮOlawｌｔAＬＫ.ＳＥ_ｒePLＡcｅ_lＡwｌＷIＴｈ n xnht zwmybpsyx dmlc kgt khvgnbbyri ksnp qws

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:30:37 2010 No.5633111 >>5633023 The murderer is Person X, who fits into the spot left behind by Shkanon.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:32:37 2010 No.5633124

>>5633098
No. Look at >>5632842 again. "Now I can finally accept the real truth about myself." "Now"; "finally"; ie, this is the first time she's really confronting it head on. And it erases her.

If anything, Bern gave her a temporary, illusory reprieve from hell where she could pretend she existed. But she never did.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:34:31 2010 No.5633136 >>5632226 sｔoＰ_ｆUＣＫiNＧ AＴtＡCKiNG ｗwW.ＡnOＬａWｌtaLＫ.ｓＥ_ＲＥｐＬACＥ LaｗＬ_ＷＩth ｎ zrwu gdvfm caev hywezo z k tpibvlmp d wemu r auu kv

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:34:37 2010 No.5633137 It would be hilarious if in the end the murderer was some never-before seen fucko who doesn't count as a "person" because he has no personality.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:37:37 2010 No.5633148 >>5633137 R07 loves mind tricks too much not to provide an answer with foreshadowing he can rub in your face.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:40:37 2010 No.5633161

There's no Rokenjima's accident.

Everything is just an illusion. Made by Maria, who mentally unstable.

All death are caused by each personnels that went to the island killing each other. Maria, the last survivor, died by an accident near the old house of ex-Beatrice.

All stories, from ep 2-6 are Forgeries, made by the author Featherine. The real story only happened on EP 1, where everybody dies except Maria.

In short, Maria's paper in the bottle about her imagination in the island has induced all "fans" around the world to make their own "fannon" stories about the illusion of a golden witch.

Oh, and also, Ryukishi = Maria.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:41:32 2010 No.5633169 >>5632225 sｔOＰ_FuCＫｉNg_aｔｔaＣＫiＮG wｗｗ.aｎoｌＡWlＴaＬｋ.ＳE_ＲｅplACe ｌaＷl WＩTH ｎ i fjezrrog xtdbfudkgf oiqbhyf jkgh j n p jv

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:45:37 2010 No.5633189 >>5633161 Sadly I prefer this to KANON=SHANNON=SAMEFAGGOTRTY.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:49:37 2010 No.5633217 The cries 'FUCKING BULLSHIT, SHKANON WAS OBVIOUS, NOTHING ELSE WAS POSSIBLE, WHY DIDN'T IT WORK OUT, RYU07 CAN'T WRITE FOR SHIT' will be so pleasant to hear.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:51:37 2010 No.5633230 So, Shannon=Kanon=Maria=Beatrice

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:56:37 2010 No.5633257 I'd like to just take this time to say FUCK Ryukishi. No matter how it ends it is pretty much guaranteed to be bad at this point. Personally I'm expecting something like the syringe is actually a marker hurr durr like shit that Higurashi had.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 08:59:37 2010 No.5633279 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161 >>5633161

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:00:37 2010 No.5633283 File: 169 KB, 960x540, 1248463753636.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] All of Umineko happens in the head of Maria "Crazy Jane" Ushiromiya, who has 17 side personalities not counting the magical ones.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:00:37 2010 No.5633289 >>5633161 doesn't work because the first bottle wasn't written in Maria's handwriting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:01:37 2010 No.5633294 >>5633289 Her writing hand was injured, she used the other one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:02:37 2010 No.5633297 >>5633289 is written by her alter ego. so different handwriting. There you go

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:03:37 2010 No.5633299 >>5633294 Except it's the same handwriting as another person who wrote in Maria's book

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:05:37 2010 No.5633307 >>5633161 According to this theory, even Shkannon idea is plausible since it is human's "idea" that further brightening the Rokenjima. The truth is, Rokenjima accident is similar to Touhou's fanbase of Black Tei.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:05:37 2010 No.5633310 >>5633297 >>5633294 then explain how Battler triggered it, since he's to blame for the carnage. Maria didn't even remember him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:06:37 2010 No.5633313 File: 55 KB, 848x480, 1248466995289.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5633310 Too much punching.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:07:37 2010 No.5633317 >>5633310 Battler is Maria's Father. Abandon her, so that is his sin

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:09:37 2010 No.5633327 File: 964 KB, 1135x1600, onis_out_-_43.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5633307 forget to post the pics Let's make it clear: Canon material: the Witch's epitaph and Ep. 1 Fanon: the rest.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:09:37 2010 No.5633329 >trying to analyze something from which you can only see a little part and will be retconned in the next episode anyway never change, /jp/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:10:37 2010 No.5633331 >>5633313 OK, you win, got a chuckle out of that one. That being said, how was she killed? You need an accident that torn her to bits so that only her jaw could identify her.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:12:37 2010 No.5633350 >>5633331 Maria dear, could you hold this little ticking thing for mama and go hide to the forest? Thank you

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:12:37 2010 No.5633351 I remember a statement made by Beatrice/Battler/whoever that says the "truth" has already provided ever since ep. 1 and it will remain the same thereafter in all prior game. Anyone remember which episode is this ?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:12:37 2010 No.5633356

Shkannontrice is obviously true and I don't like it either, but people need to calm the fuck down and stop jumping to conclusions. Right now we simply know about the situation itself and not the context, and there's very likely more to it than just a DID meido killing everyone because she didn't get a pony.

This is like if people had complained about Krauss and Natsuhi never noticed that Kinzo was dead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:21:37 2010 No.5633409 requesting that rifyu comic about the shower scene, which was made before EP6 was released and freaked people out.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:21:37 2010 No.5633415 I wonder why DID is used so much in VNs.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:25:37 2010 No.5633441

>>5633356
it's more than just not getting a pony, the guy she was in love with came back completely changed and didn't even remember loving her in the first place, and she was getting stuck into a situation where she wouldn't be able to get him since she was engaged to someone else.

>>5633350
Then it's not an accident anymore

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:27:37 2010 No.5633458 >>5633331 She was eaten by the wolves. Turns out there are some after all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:32:37 2010 No.5633487 >>5633415 Not specific to VNs. It's because it's, from a fiction standpoint, a really cool and eerie disorder and one that can pop up in any person unable to cope with reality.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:34:37 2010 No.5633505 >>5633458 and then they entered the mansion and ate the other people who were mentioned to have been torn to bits. Riiight.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:37:37 2010 No.5633515 >>5633487 Not to mention that like clones and time travel, it makes things easy for writers who have written themselves into a corner.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:38:37 2010 No.5633521 >>5633505 Of course. They followed her tracks.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:39:37 2010 No.5633526

>>5633441
>it's more than just not getting a pony, the guy she was in love with came back completely changed and didn't even remember loving her in the first place, and she was getting stuck into a situation where she wouldn't be able to get him since she was engaged to someone else.

I...don't think that's the case either. Considering Battler's attitude, there's more to it than her killing everyone because she's mad at Battler.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:43:37 2010 No.5633553 >>5633521 we have witches. So why not werewolves?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:44:37 2010 No.5633560 Kanon = Shannon = Krauss = Kinzo = Eva = Gohda = Nanjo = Rosa = Kumasawa = Hideyoshi = Maria's father = Well, you got it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:47:37 2010 No.5633573 Umineko is truly the greatest story of our time and without a doubt the best VN ever.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:48:37 2010 No.5633579 Well there was a happy time where everyone was looking the big portrait of Beatrice. Then the portrait fall on them and killed them all. End

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:48:37 2010 No.5633580 >>5633441 Considering Episode 4 clues, the mass murder was planned at least a week before the conference. Shannon didn't meet Battler before the conference for 6 years.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:49:37 2010 No.5633586 File: 101 KB, 829x514, 1271321397293.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5633573 you best be joking

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:49:37 2010 No.5633591
File: 401 KB, 638x478, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I don't even care about pussy Battler and his twice dead bitch. Lambda is a million times more competent and manly than he can even dream to be.
Why not just make the game about how Lambda turn the wildest tsundere in history her little pet love doll?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 09:53:37 2010 No.5633608 >>5633591 After this episode, 34 became my favourite character. She was so awesome.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:01:37 2010 No.5633641 >>5633487 Unfortunately, it's almost always portrayed incorrectly in fiction. Umineko included. The psychologist inside me is quietly seething in anger.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:01:37 2010 No.5633646 Lambdadelta=34 3+4=7 Battler= 7 letters Battler=Lamdadelta

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:02:37 2010 No.5633648 >>5633033 Aliens and brain parasites.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:03:37 2010 No.5633653 This episode was, without a doubt, the worst. Not because of Shkanontrice being confirmed, that theory, while a tad silly, isn't series ruining. What IS, is Ryukushi's faggotry in insulting all of us.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:03:37 2010 No.5633656 >>5633648 Toxic dust from butterflies

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:05:37 2010 No.5633661 >>5633656 Billion butterflies bombed the island with small bombs!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:06:17 2010 No.5633672 >>5633661 >>5633656 >>5633648 Incompetents. It was de Purupuru drug.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:06:37 2010 No.5633667 >>5633653 he's become Miyazaki. has a big head and thinks he knows best.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:06:37 2010 No.5633671
File: 60 KB, 611x799, jessica6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Well, I, for one, am looking forward to Jessica.

Next episode we'll get moe! "my life is a lie" Jessica!

Or Cool, Sexy, "I'm the culprit" Jessica.

Or perhaps Beatrice-Jessica, but I doubt it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:09:37 2010 No.5633684 >>5633656 I mean, they were both introduced late in the story, so people thought it was definite answer.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:09:37 2010 No.5633685

>>5633580
>Shannon didn't meet Battler before the conference for 6 years.
But she kept tabs on him through Rudolf

>>5633526
She's not just mad at him, she's gonna lose him. As discussed through the whole trial of love thing, people are not above cooking up a carnage to retain their true love. Plus since she's gone with impersonating Beatrice since she's Battler's ideal woman of sorts, she interpreted the epitaph a bit too litterally in her madness and decided cleaving through some meat to carry the message was in order

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:11:37 2010 No.5633696 >>5633653 >What IS, is Ryukushi's faggotry in insulting all of us. You know he was right though. You're just butthurt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:11:37 2010 No.5633698 >>5633653 >What IS, is Ryukushi's faggotry in insulting all of us he's just being tsuntsun, in august he'll show you his throbbing deredere

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:12:37 2010 No.5633702 File: 412 KB, 640x480, kanon debt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Ok, Kanon, now I'm lost.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:12:37 2010 No.5633703 >>5633653 It must be why there are all these "it's a shit game" comments in EGS.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:13:37 2010 No.5633707 >>5633696 I'm not butthurt, I simply don't care for an author avatar making snide comments about the readers. If I wanted that I'd read a Stephen King novel.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:16:37 2010 No.5633720

>>5633707
It's nothing new though. R07 has been telling his readers how to read Umineko since the beginning, and there are still idiots going 'I can't trust the red text' or 'everything that's not written in red is false', 'the meta world is useless or a fragment of Battler's imagination'. All we're lacking is VNfags going 'but why is he saying that witches don't exist when he's talking to one'. I'd be frustrated too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:16:37 2010 No.5633721 Ryu07 is just mad because everyone is saying that his series has become shit, over the top and a complete mess. "they just don't get it! those idiots wouldnt be able to understand something as intelligent as this"

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:18:37 2010 No.5633728 File: 26 KB, 645x503, ep6ohfuck.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I just got past the part where Erika reveals she killed all of the first twilight 'victims' (fuck year), how long until the first tea party?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:20:37 2010 No.5633736 Ryukishi is just one gigantic troll. We shouldn't be angry at Shkanon, though. This theory has been around for quite some time and this proves that we're competent readers, in R07's eyes. But I don't like how he has been insulting us in EP6.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:20:37 2010 No.5633737 >>5633728 you have still the end, so not much, give it an hour.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:21:37 2010 No.5633742 >>5633737 im also up to that part. Is it almost over? i thought there would be more.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:21:37 2010 No.5633743 >>5633736 If you're a competent reader then you shouldn't feel insulted. He's talking about those who still don't get how to read Umineko i.e. those who lack love/trust.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:22:37 2010 No.5633748 File: 48 KB, 640x480, moetrice 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] (insert incoherent feminist rant)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:22:37 2010 No.5633749 >>5633742 You have duel, closed room and wedding, not much. It's still the second longest ep, after that massive 4.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:23:37 2010 No.5633755

>>5633721
Typical shitty VN author that can't take criticism.
I used to respect him and thought that seacat might actually be a good mystery VN that is on par with Ever17 mindfucked level.
After Ep6, it would be a miracle for seacat to be as good or critically acclaimed as higurashi.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:24:37 2010 No.5633762

>>5633736
Shkanon has been around awhile, but it's Shkanontrice being proven right I'm upset about.

Mainly because Shkanon was commonly used to pin Sayo as the culprit, and if it follows that she's Beatrice, it means she, Beatrice is the culprit.

So in episode 6, with Beatrice being praised all over the place, I can't help but shudder. A murderer doesn't deserve praise, even less so a serial one.

And Battler becoming a snotty non-human is also a bit disenheartening.

Let us face facts here. There is no real logical reason for Beatrice to kill people. As a motivation to solve the epitagh because of a bomb? Kinzo has been dead for over a year. I very much doubt that he could plant a bomb.

Common sense easily destroys any reasonable reason for Beatrice to kill.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:24:37 2010 No.5633763 >>5633737 Kay, thanks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:25:37 2010 No.5633767 >>5633755 Oh please. That wasn't about criticism. See: >>5633743 and >>5633720

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:25:37 2010 No.5633769

I believe someone on /jp/ described Umineko as R07's "cum-encrushed love letter to Agatha Christie"

I think that's an apt metaphor. If any of you faggots ever read her novels, she loves setting up obvious solutions and then pulling some contrived twist bullshit at the very end.

I'm expecting some real bullshit twist ending to Umineko.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:27:37 2010 No.5633780

ShKanon being around since a long time doesn't make it any less of a shitty stupid plot device though.
It's not smart, it's not well thought about, he just made a bunch of closed rooms and mysteries using a plot device that only the shittiest mystery writers would use.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:27:37 2010 No.5633781 >>5633769 Oh there will be. The answers seem obvious, but he's going to pull some crazy shit in the end.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:28:37 2010 No.5633785

>>5633743
I try to deny shkannon because I have TOO MUCH love/trust for Ryu, that he's not fucking moron and can write mystery. Not because I don't see how he could make it work and why. But maybe I should just accept inevitable and move on to better mysteries.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:28:37 2010 No.5633789 >>5633769 Exactly

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:29:37 2010 No.5633793

>>5633767
I am talking about EGS/2ch comments.
Nothing to do with WITHOUT LOVE IT CANT BE SEEN.
Not to mention how R07 thinks his readers are dum/stupid and keep repeating that line in Ep6.
We don't need this constant line being repeated constantly since ep4. I don't know about you guys but it was hard for me to read through the 1st half of ep6 with all these "WITHOUT LOVE IT CANT BE SEEN" and sappy shkanon love story being repeatly shown and we have all seen this in earlier eps.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:29:37 2010 No.5633794 Ryukishi has already stated Umineko's truth is very complicated. And the one person who knows it besides him and his crew said it took "hours to explain" He's planning something. I believe in him.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:29:37 2010 No.5633796

>>5633762
>Common sense easily destroys any reasonable reason for Beatrice to kill.
if there's one thing unrelated to killing, it's common sense. People who have common sense don't kill. Killing in self defense happens when you're scared enough to ignore common sense. Soldiers are trained to listen to roders rather than common sense. Other kill out of cruelty or need or whatever. And so on.

As soon as we're dealing with killings common sense is out of the equation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:30:37 2010 No.5633803 >>5633793 Because, judging by the theories spawned from ep4 and 5, people obviously didn't get what love was and had to be hammered.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:30:37 2010 No.5633805 >>5633794 So you are just waiting for a brick shitting answer without thinking? No wonder Ryukishi hates you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:30:37 2010 No.5633806 >>5633762 >Kinzo has been dead for over a year. I very much doubt that he could plant a bomb Don't make me say it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:32:37 2010 No.5633810 When Lambda was talking about Bern being stuck in hell, she was talking about Higurashi wasn't she? poor Rika, stuck in the endless game. was AuAu her master? Hanyu gave up if I recall.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:32:37 2010 No.5633811 >>5633793 Well, people are still trying to demonstrate the carnage isn't because of "beato"'slove for Battler, so obviously it bears repeating.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:33:37 2010 No.5633820

>>5633785
>I try to deny shkannon because I have TOO MUCH love/trust for Ryu, that he's not fucking moron and can write mystery. Not because I don't see how he could make it work and why.
Still the anon you replied to. As an ex ponyfag, I feel the same way - I don't like ShKannon or ShKannontrice, for the same reasons as you, but at this point I believe we should just accept that R07 honestly thinks it's a good solution/twist. That's why ShKannontrice or not, he's not 'betraying us'.

>But maybe I should just accept inevitable and move on to better mysteries.
Personally, I look forward to his next work. I loved many things about Umineko and hopefully, next time, he'll come up with a better solution.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:33:37 2010 No.5633821

>>5633769
How exactly her novels contrived? You know, it's enough only slightly to mention something in the middle of the story, among the pile of false clues, so it would count for a clue/foreshadowing and not fucking HAMMER for hours and chapters the same retarded shit. That's not how clues supposed to work, most real mysteries follow that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:34:37 2010 No.5633826 >>5633762 There's still something we don't know about Beato and obviously the murders. Battler wouldn't act like he did towards her if she was this horrible person.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:34:37 2010 No.5633827 >>5633646 lol what

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:35:37 2010 No.5633833 >>5633811 But ffffffff how's meta Beato a murderer?!

>>	lololol Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:37:37 2010 No.5633841 >>5633762 >Kinzo has been dead for over a year. I very much doubt that he could plant a bomb. "I wouldn't put it past him"

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:38:37 2010 No.5633844

thb I thought about Shkanon from very early on and have mostly been rejecting it because of the fags who say "LOLZ SHAKANONTRICE" as even if that was true it would explain everything in Umineko. I haven't finished EP6 yet, but I must be within 30min-1hour of finishing it and I'm having a hard time seeing Shkanon not being confirmed by this episode.

If you don't feel that way that's fine, but for the majority of the idiots who say "But it's all lies nothing was said in red lolz lolz duh", Insert screen cap of the scene where it was pointed out that if you think anything other than red text is complete bullshit, you're an idiot.

Anyways, other than the bits where Fetherine talked about the idiot fanbase of her tales, which I felt was annoying to have to read through, I've enjoyed EP 6 so far... going to try and finish it up now.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:40:37 2010 No.5633849

>>5633844
>the bits where Fetherine talked about the idiot fanbase of her tales, which I felt was annoying to have to read through
Still they were necessary, you yourself said why:
>If you don't feel that way that's fine, but for the majority of the idiots who say "But it's all lies nothing was said in red lolz lolz duh", Insert screen cap of the scene where it was pointed out that if you think anything other than red text is complete bullshit, you're an idiot.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:40:37 2010 No.5633851

>>5633833
meta Beato's just a representation of how on the board Shannon's using Beatrice as a façade for the murders, specifically because Battler said he was in love with Beatrice to avoid facing her. By maskerading as Battler's pretend love she expects him to get the message, which BAttler doesn't because it's something silly he said when he was a kid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:41:37 2010 No.5633855 >>5633821 I said the solutions are contrived. If I were to take what an obvious analogue to what R07 is doing right now, I'd go with The Clocks. >1 mention of the real killer in the very beginning >200 pages of absolute bullshit

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:42:37 2010 No.5633860 >>5633851 >pecifically because Battler said he was in love with Beatrice to avoid facing her Oh wow, are you implying that Battler doesn't love Beatrice?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:48:37 2010 No.5633893 >>5633860 No, Battler said that to avoid facing his first love he pretended he loved someone else, mentioning it's the kind of silly thing kids do. "I-it's not like I like you or anything", you know the drill.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:49:37 2010 No.5633901 So has anyone come up with a non-fantasy theory of how Battler got out of the closed room? Any that don't involve Shkannontrice?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:52:37 2010 No.5633919 >>5633901 It can work if someone has the same name as Kannon

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:53:37 2010 No.5633927 >>5633893 So you're saying that he actually loves Shannon...? And where/when exactly did he say this?

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:54:37 2010 No.5633932

>>5633901

Kanon enters the room along with his Shannon disguise and lets Battler out. Kanon gets in the closet or under the bed and assumes the role of Shannon.

OR maybe

Kanon enters the closet and with this act finally decides hes not furniture anymore. His name is no longer the servants name Kanon but his true name. So in both cases Kanon ceases to exist AKA disappears.

Thats really just random speculation from me

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:54:37 2010 No.5633934 I'm at the part where Erika gets shot. Do I have much left?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:55:37 2010 No.5633943 >>5633934 Just the tea parties, nothing much

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:55:37 2010 No.5633944 >>5633934 You are at the very end before the tea party.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:56:37 2010 No.5633946 >>5633901 Here's mine: kannon broke the seal on the window, steals unlimited tape frome erika, resets the tape, "saves" battler, commits suicides, exits through the bath. No kanno in the room, tapes are ok.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:56:37 2010 No.5633947 >>5633932 or he commits suicide

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:58:37 2010 No.5633954 I think this thread is not bumping anymore.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 10:58:37 2010 No.5633955

>>5633901
Doesn't exist unless you believe in MAGIC.

Both of them are perfect closed room.
Kanon was not part of the "everyone" because he was never there in the first place.
He left the room as Shannon, save Battler as Kanon and remained in the room as Shannon.
The reason why most people hate Shkanon is because of how ridiculous all of this is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:03:37 2010 No.5633973 >>5633927 She was his first love. Ep3, 5 and George at 6.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:10:37 2010 No.5634007 >>5633932 So I guess him deciding he's not furniture ties in with him fulfilling his debt to Beatrice? With the brooch she let him learn love (so he becomes human) and then saving Battler was his payment to her.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:11:37 2010 No.5634013

>>5633927
I'm saying that he *loved* Shannon, that Shannon was his first love. It's an accumulation of several things mentioned early in episode 6. When discussing the nature of his fights with Beato Battler mention lying to his first love as an anecdote, pretending he was in love with someone else. When George discusses his motivation to change he mentions Battler and Shannon got along really well, and this had already been mentioned since ep1 already. And there's this whole talk about how the younger Beato, the one that loves him, was created by Battler and started as spearate from the older Beato, the one that's a mix of old legends and Kinzo's benefactor. ie Battler created an imaginary girlfriend, a lie based on Beatrice so he could be tsundere to Shannon, then went away, and Shannon used the guise of the legend for the murders, thinking Battler would recognize his lie in it and thus how he wronged her.

Of course that's only the original love part of the explanation, something more fucked up has to happen in Battler's absence to turn her into a murderer, and something ignited by Battler's lie about Beato.

As grimdark as it is I guess the Kinzo abusing Shannon as a Beatrice proxy idea could fit, if she tried to become more like Beatrice thinking she'd be more like Battler's ideal woman when he came back.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:14:37 2010 No.5634032 >>5634007 Sounds interesting

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:17:37 2010 No.5634054 >>5634007 that would work

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:17:37 2010 No.5634055

I think the biggest thing against ShKanon is the fact that, this entity would have had to fool everyone on the island for the entire time they were employed there. '

If Shannon or Kanon were to die shortly before the game officially starts instead and the other plays the part it would still fit with the 16 person limit but also share the idea that there is some Shan/Kan switching going on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:21:37 2010 No.5634085 >>5634055 What's to stop others from being in on the Shkanon secret and not saying anything? In particular I'm talking about Genji. Kumasawa maaaaaybe.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:22:37 2010 No.5634090

People actually take offense to Featherine belittling her fanbase? Really? So sensitive. Unless you're one of the people that doesn't try to think about the answer and just wants brickshitting twists, the statements wouldn't apply to you anyway. The truth is the majority of most fanbases are idiots.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:23:37 2010 No.5634091

>>5634055
>I think the biggest thing against ShKanon is the fact that, this entity would have had to fool everyone on the island for the entire time they were employed there
No, as pointed out before it just has to fool people who aren't playing along with it. Same principle as Kinzo.

Moreover, it doesn't have to fool them the entire time: at the beginning of the sixth game many remark on how Kanon has changed. It means it's possible there was a live, separate Kanon who left or died during the last few years, in a way traumatic enough for Shannon to snap and create a Kanon persona (I guess you could make it work with Kanon as the live one too, but then why is he the one people think has changed). If the incident was problematic enough the islanders have a good reason to cover it up like they did for Kinzo.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:33:37 2010 No.5634183

Ryukishi was right when he said after EP6, half would understand and half wouldn't.

Those that accept Shkannon, understand. There have been signs of it every episode. By the end of EP4, the theory had a lot going for it. But Many still ignored it. EP6 is basically saying "Shkannon is correct. Deal with it."

Those that don't accept Shkannon are deluded. They try to use previous games to debunk it but don't try to solve EP6's logic error without it. Quite frankly, you can't because Shkannon is the solution. It's painfully obvious at this point and this side of the fanbase is what Ryukishi hates and used Featherine to make fun of. If you're waiting for a red statement to confirm it, it's not going to happen. Ryukishi has stated multiple times that he's not going to give away answers like Higurashi.

tl:dr people that deny Shkannon are just wasting their time. It's fine if you dislike it, but the entire series has been foreshadowed it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:39:37 2010 No.5634227 >>5634183 Looks like there have been a few other theories to the logic error in this thread but some people have just avoided talking about them.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:43:37 2010 No.5634262

>>5634183
and how exactly is that solution good or even "with love"?

it's downright retarded and painfully easy from the start. people thought of it probably as the first possible solution at episode 1.

and he calls those who wanted to find another less shitty way out not thinking?

Jesus fucking Christ I hope he can either come up with something else or just kill himself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:46:37 2010 No.5634292 > Erika is 18th people. > There are 17 people including Erika. There is a theme park here, and the staff said to you "Congratulations! You are just 1,000,000th guest of us!" Does it mean that there are 999,999 people here?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:52:37 2010 No.5634339 >>5634183 All of the posts like this look like they were written by the single samefag, really. You're completely missing the point why people, to say the least, don't like shkannon(trice), then again maybe you're just trolling.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:53:37 2010 No.5634348

>>5634262
>and he calls those who wanted to find another less shitty way out not thinking?
Yes. That's the magic cheese thing. People are silly if they discover the three-cuts method and then discard it because they decide there must be a more magnificent answer. They think up something different from the more trivial three cuts, but then when they look at the book's solution the three cuts are the correct answer.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:55:37 2010 No.5634362 >>5634339 All of the posts like this look like they were written by the single samefag, really. You're completely missing the point why people, to say the least, do like shkannon(trice), then again maybe you're just trolling.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:56:37 2010 No.5634380 >>5634362 That's weak, try harder.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 11:59:37 2010 No.5634398 >>5634380 u mad 'cos it's true

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 12:08:37 2010 No.5634483

I think we can all agree that ShKanon is a POSSIBILITY at the very least whether you like it or not.

Assuming it is the answer, why is he/she killing people. What is their motive? Virgilia states in red that
# Her goal is not to make someone experience fear.
# And it isn't to have revenge on someone either.
# Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 12:13:37 2010 No.5634514

>>5634483
plus Battler understands her and maybe even loves her once he finds out the motive.

Logical explanation is, she's protecting him, and maybe others. But when Battler doesn't understand, she finds it preferable to let everybody die.

Means there could be a second party behind part of the killings, and possibly the explosion. That party would be interested in killing Battler. So something to do with the inheritance

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 12:23:37 2010 No.5634590

>>5634483
>I think we can all agree that ShKanon is a POSSIBILITY at the very least whether you like it or not.

Assuming it is the answer, why is he/she killing people. What is their motive?

Disregarding my stance on Shkanon. This is the what makes me disgusted. If Shkanon ends up being true, it doesn't make it the answer to everything. It doesn't mean Shkanon killed everyone, it doesn't mean Shkanon is Beato, it doesn't mean Shkanon is the mastermind. All it does is add a more complex piece to the puzzles. If you're trying to solve everything in the game with Shkanon, gtfo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 12 12:26:37 2010 No.5634619 >>5634590 >it doesn't mean Shkanon is Beato We've already ascertained Shannon being in love with Battler makes the most sense, thus becoming the Beato that loves Battler.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 12:35:37 2010 No.5634660

>>5634590
the real Beato in real world is a Moe girl while the cruel witch is what people think about her

who is Moe from the young girls except Maria in Umineko?
Shannon

Who was in love with Battler?
Shannon

Who always can see and talk with Beatrice from the young girls except Maria?
Shannon

who always gets a ring(even if it's not a Kinzo ring)?:
Shannon

who is the first one to call Beatrice by broking the mirror?
Shannon

Shannon is Beatrice.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 12:40:37 2010 No.5634686

>>5634619

That's not what I believe personally, but I must admit this episode has strengthened my belief that Shkanontrice is a possibility a lot. That wasn't my point with the last statement however. The point is there are many mysteries in the game. If you believe in Shkanon(trice) that's great, but it alone doesn't solve every mystery in the game. Even if you think Shkanon is true, is Beato, and that Beato is really responsible for the deaths of everyone there are still other mysteries within the game that Shkanon alone doesn't solve.

Anonymous Mon Jul 12 12:45:37 2010 No.5634706

Kannon Shannon Beatrice

GODDESS: the divine Universal Mother, source of fertility, wisdom and love. Often depicted in 3 in 1 aspects of: Maiden, Mother, and Crone. Her gift is Life and She is all Nature. The moon is her symbol, as are the cauldron, mirror and five-petaled flowers, to name but a few. Also called the Goddess Mother. The 4th Face of the Goddess: is that which is never seen, the dark side of the moon; the Face of Death. Some say the source of Her power.
She is the female aspect which pervades all of the universe in vast interrelationships of every possible sort, providing impetus, creative spark and more. It is capable of being perceived in many ways depending on the perceiver and transcends time as well as space. Most perceptions of the great goddesses are valid in their own aspects and are or can be of considerable value.
Pagans often choose the archetypal maiden goddess as patroness of things fresh and new, the mother or lady as patroness of challenge, passion, creation and nurturing and the crone goddess for patroness of wisdom and judgment. Such perceptions enable us to form close emotional and magickal links with goddesshood.

>>	Dr. Pest Mon Jul 12 12:58:37 2010 No.5634799 meh. Too much LOVE in this episode. I'm afraid this turns out worse than the second season of Higurashi. waiting for VNs like Ever17

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