/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Admit it

Umineko was better in EP1 when there were no magical bunnies, giant cake witches, goats, and metaworld.

Shit was scary as hell

[Hong Meiling 門門 !!XzNn/qDPbir No.]

I wouldn't be able to live without Nyeh~.

[Anonymous No.]

>Umineko
>scary
Back to school, summerfriend.

[Anonymous No.]

I agree. Well, I wouldn't say it was scary, but it was surely more exciting and entertaining.

[Milfeulle !.LunLunKCs No.]

but is in ep3 when all the fun begins.

[Anonymous No.]

Episode 5 was best so far, haven't read 6 though.

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko would be 50x better without George and the maid slut... I forget her name. They are so fucking annoying.

Bunny girls are okay.

[Anonymous No.]

410 makes every scene she is in awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

But you can't really expect Ryu to write the same story again and again for 8 episodes. I for one think one of his better qualities of an author is to keep things at least semi- new and developing. Everything is expanding and the scope provides plenty of material for people who still enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko was never scary.


But its still good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490461
>Practically everything in Umineko is a useless addition:
>The stakes
>Witches other than Beatrice
>Battler becoming emperor
>Magical beings

THIS. Seriously, this would be so much more coherent and focused if the only supernatural element was Beatrice. That's the only thing you need for the story to work, and like some great thinker or another put it, perfection is found not when you can no longer think of anything to add, but when you no longer can take anything away.

Instead Ryukishi seems hellbent on throwing in every ridiculous magical being he can think of, whether the story actually benefits from their presence or not.

PS. I like Siesta 410, but she should be in some entirely different story. One about magical bunnies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490535
Without love it cannot be seen my friend

[Anonymous No.]

I thought ep one was very interesting. It got more and more bad with each episode... By the time the siesta sisters showed up I was out of there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490535

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490480
>Umineko would be 50x better without George

I'm glad I'm not alone in hating him. He started out as merely dull, but the harder Ryu07 tried to force the reader to like George, the more I began to dislike him. I'm at ep 4 now and every time he opens his mouth I'm like "...shut up, prick".

[Anonymous No.]

well everything is awesome when you what to know what is going on.

as things go on they lose their novelty and in this case, mystery

[Anonymous No.]

In b4 EP7 Bern in killing all of the magic cast with a machine gun

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490535
Yes, and to add to your point, I dislike how magical characters are introduced and then quickly shifted to the backrow in the following episodes. Much like the Siestas and stakes. I mean, if you're going to throw all these characters in, at least either integrate them into the story or throw them out completely. Don't just leave them there as fluff who only pops up every now and then and says a few lines and trails off again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490535

>Instead Ryukishi seems hellbent on throwing in every ridiculous magical being he can think of, whether the story actually benefits from their presence or not.

He went out drinking once with a guy who develops STG's independently and he suggested that the work could use more girls in frilly outfits with silly hats.

>I like Siesta 410, but she should be in some entirely different story. One about magical bunnies.

She already is, under the name Reisen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490485
I want to fuck her!

[Bern !FAGetWqs1I No.]

>>5490582

Sup Nack.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490480
>Umineko would be 50x better without George
AGREED.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490567

Well, that's kind of their point. They ARE just side characters, which goes in with their nature. The stakes themselves are supposedly just 30 dollar American paperweights bought in New York, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Siestas have a similar origin.

[Suigin !fKazami5bE No.]

it wasn't scary but it made you go "wow" at some parts

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490581
That's their sister from the moon. Dance of the moon rabbits now plays in your head.

[Anonymous No.]

The problem is that most of you believe that the meta-world is real or something, Umineko as a whole is about the power of imagination, all these magical beings and stuffs that exist in the meta world are only the product of a delusion, that's why everything feel so disconnected at time.

Of course, the fault lies to R07 too, he should take a look at Forest, Oretsuba or Subahibi to see how similar thing can be done in a much better way.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh hai

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490553
>>5490480
>>5490600
Just posting final boss

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490644
I hope so, but am afraid not. The final boss is the author himself after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490636

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490611
>The stakes themselves are supposedly just 30 dollar American paperweights bought in New York, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Siestas have a similar origin.

The Siestas are Maria's porcelain rabbits. They wear marching band clothes, and the one that's "deceased" is the one Rosa broke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490611
A lot of the magic-side characters are just illusionary caricatures of the mystery-side characters, so if you look at them that way then you get additional character development instead of cast explosion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490611
My guess is that they are british fireweapons Kinzo bought because he felt they were cool.

[Anonymous No.]

Me in the left.

[Sakura !!32RHYzwb/Ga No.]

>>5490461
I think it gets better each episode, but that's just me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490611
But there was already more than enough side characters. Every episode consists of throwing in more and more side characters / giving one of the original characters a "fantasy" counter-part.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490660
>>5490669
Imagination isn't a one-to-one correspondence, so both of these could be right at the same time.

[Anonymous No.]

OP pic sauce?

[Anonymous No.]

Not really defending R07 way of thinking, but since EP4 i kinda understood why the meta world is the mess that it is.

In my opinion there are two types of ''magical characters'':

1- The embelishers (stakes, goats, siestas, gaap, virgilia, ronove...), they are there to make the meta world likeable, but in a childish way, in Beatrice's way.

They serve the same purpose as the meta scenes where the main cast suddenly gain super kung fu powers and go on kicking ass... they are there just to make the idea of the ''world of witches and magic'' likeable.

By reading their personalities, way of thinking and acting we can pretty much assume what is the real personality of the one called Beatrice (while we can see the similarities and differences between her view of witches and magic and maria's view)

Last but not least, they are the materialization of ''Love'', which is the main theme of the story.

2- The meta-characters (Dlanor, Erika, Bern, Lambda..), they are just the idealization of different points of view, rules of the game and even the reader.

Their purpose is to estabilish a dialogue between the writer and the reader, while guiding the game to its conclusion.


Its not like the characters are there for no reason at all, they serve a purpose.

Of course you are free to like it or not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490697

Well, it's getting ridiculous to the point where R07 is making enough characters to reach a cast of magical girls of Touhou-like proportions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490694
http://ja.curecos.com/

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490660
The problem is why they represent guns? Though I like how Gaap called them ウサギ楽団 in 6.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490713
Well, it fits well with a character like maria... so i see no real problem with that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490718
Thank you very much

[Bern !FAGetWqs1I No.]

>>5490723

Even Maria has a silly hat.

Soon KirbyM will be making Uminekos.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490718
>http://ja.curecos.com/

Fuck that site for not letting me browse the pictures. I even tried to register, but they never sent an activation mail.

[Anonymous No.]

EP5 > EP3 > EP4 > EP2 > EP1

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490866
are you me?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490866
My opinions > your opinions

[Anonymous No.]

The funny thing is that EP1 feels like the worst after reading the rest, because all it has is the murder mystery which we now know to be a bit bullshit, and I keep waiting for the magical characters playing grabass which is the main interest in the latter parts but never comes in 1.

[Mirrored !EhE8ram93U No.]

3=5>2>1>4

Ange is just not at all interesting.

[Anonymous No.]

Most Umineko fags read it for the wrong reasons and it's going to bit them in the asses when the truth will be revealed.
It's going to be funny to look at the shitfest.

[Anonymous No.]

No, I don't admit it.
EP1 was great but it skyrocketed on the later EPs.
It's epic as fuck right now (up till ep 5 at least)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490940
What are the true reasons, which I presume are yours, good sir?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Second half of EP1 was very good, but it would become dead boring if all next episodes would be just pure mystery with no magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490949
They think the witches in the meta-world are real witches with super power or something.
They ship Battler and Beato without even trying to understand what them existing in the meta-world mean.
Basically they think the meta-world is real and exist as a different reality or world or kakera or whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490940
>Most Umineko fags read it for the wrong reasons

"Wrong reasons." I hope you understand how ludicrous that sounds.

[Anonymous No.]

5 > 2nd half of 2 > 3 > 1 > 4 > 1st half of 2

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490975

On some level they have to be real, otherwise the only possible resolution for this shit is "Battler is dying of a severe head wound he got after falling from the boat and everything we have seen so far is the last thoughts of his damaged brain."

[Anonymous No.]

5 was shit, filled with stupidity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490975

Lambda and Bern are real. Every other meta character is just illusion. Including Beato.

[Mirrored !EhE8ram93U No.]

>>5490940
Is there really a wrong reason to read it?

To be honest, there are so many idiots in the fanbase of "Japanese-ism" in general that this can be said about virtually any anime, manga, vn, etc.

My reason for reading it, is that it is a really good critique and analysis of the question "What is Mystery?", that it has a really fun plot/concept, and that I believe that it is a "solvable" mystery (however, I do not believe that there is yet enough evidence to limit the number of solutions).

But eh, Umineko 1 lacks the elements that make the series unique. While it was very cool to have a non-magical introduction, the magic elements are what really build up the themes.

I have a feeling the conclusion is going to show us the episodes without magic, which is going to make it a much more serious and less playful experience.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490993
They aren't real at all, you should have understood it by fucking episode 4.
And episode 5 and 6 basically pushed it even harder.

But they aren't the "creation" of Battler either, only 2 people know of this magical setting after all and Battler isn't one of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490996
Lambda and Bern aren't real though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490997
>>My reason for reading it, is that it is a really good critique and analysis of the question "What is Mystery?"
It isn't really though.

I also read it for this but Umineko doesn't do it very well, too much masturbation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490995
I'm glad that I'm not the only person who thought that.

[Bern !FAGetWqs1I No.]

>>5491012

>Bern isn't real

FUCK YOU AND YOUR THEORIES BERN IS REAL AND SHE IS MY CRUEL MISTRESS

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491044
She's a delusion that lives only in your mind

[Anonymous No.]

I agree that witches, magic and most meta-stuff are just metaphors and logical concepts. It's really good illustrated in ep5 during the study "battle". New theory arises = witch has a new door, it's denied by evidence\witness = door sealed, etc.
Bern and Lambda are probably too just a concepts of 'mystery' and 'fantasy', for example.

[Bern !FAGetWqs1I No.]

>>5491052

No...she's real...;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491012

Lambda and Bern, like almost every other magical character, are cooperative inventions of Maria and the real-world Beatrice who is the true culprit and the other member of the Mariage Sorciere. L and B come from the episodes of Higurashi she watched in the anime/Magical Bern-chan in the manga/Higurashi book she read in the VN. Maria invents their looks and personality and stuff like that, the other member invents their real-world equivalents (stakes = the paperweights, siestas = the guns...). This much is clear.

What the fuck is the role of Meta-Battler in all this I have no clue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491012

They are real. Their connection to Higurashi is there for a reason. Also bonus tips.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491093

Meta-Battler isn't real either - no metaverse character is. The entire Umineko is Maria and "Beatrice" trying to come up with magical explanations for the murders "Beatrice" committed. Battler is their guilt or common sense or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491101
They are personifications of some concepts. Of course they existed during the Higurashi and in other worlds and maybe "helped" some people.

[Anonymous No.]

>My face when inevitably the real explanation will be stupider than any single fan theory

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491114
They should ask for the help of Nike.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491101
There is no connection with the Higurashi we know.
There is a connection with Higurashi the fiction written by Featherine.
Bern and Lambdadelta are fictional concept that were given a "self" by Featherine within the crazy wonderland that is the land of Sayo.

How she did it? No idea, she probably influenced Sayo into creating them to get the game going though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490461
>Umineko was better in EP1

It got better AFTER you read EP1 and realised Battler was on to something in EP2. It's the whole package, man.

[Anonymous No.]

Episode 6 says that both Bern and Lambda were born during the Higurashi, they both born from game pieces and Lambda tells Battler that she loves Bern because she's the one who saved her from the infinite loop.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491101
I think there are contradictions; e.g. Bern having been the miko of Featherine. Unless you think that Featherine if Hanyuu, the most logical thing to assume is that Ryukishi is simply referencing Higurashi as a red herring. Okonogi appears in Umineko too after all and there's no way he could be connected to his alter ego in Higurashi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491160
>were born during the Higurashi
No, it's not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491161
>Unless you think that Featherine if Hanyuu

Is there anyone who doesn't think that? Her name is a pun of Hanyuu and she has Hanyuu's horns, for fuck's sake.

If it's a red herring he's going pretty far with it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491176
Cause there is no history for that

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490506
The problem is they are badly tied together.
Write too much and it just collapses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491161
Simple.
Featherine = writer.
Miko = main character = Rika = Bern

What happened is that Featherine made Sayo read Higurashi again and again till Sayo created 2 new personalities, Bern and Lambda.
They were created to uncover the truth within Sayo's memories, to get the game started.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491093

As far as I remember Maria never interacted with Bern and Lambda directly in the VN's.

It's pretty much certain that all meta characters except Lambda, Bern and Meta-Battler are Maria's creations but we have no idea about the true nature of that trio. Bern is talking about Maria in her letters. Lambda is talking about Maria in her diary, and she supposedly granted her the power of the witch. Also there are obvious connections between Umineko and Higurashi in bonus tips and EP6 Tea Party.

Most evidence suggest that voyagers are more than just personified concepts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491161
Hanyuu is just one of Featherine pieces, just like Furudo Erika and Takano Miyo. See the kanji references? Feather(Ha) In(nyuu). Unless she's Hanyuu herself.

>>5491174
Not sure if it was really Higurashi, but they talk about a game with broken dices going around ever and ever that nobody had a clue about its rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491176
That's not horns, it's a data disc.

>>5491190
Please use Beatrice instead of Sayo, thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491205
No, Featherine sealed the deal for Bern and Lambda.
They aren't real witches or whatever, they are just the product of an imagination.

But yeah they weren't created by Maria, that much is clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491206
>See the kanji references? Feather(Ha) In(nyuu). Unless she's Hanyuu herself.

No I do not because you are clearly typing in English.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491205
I think Lambda granted power of a witch to Beatrice, she even says so in the vn. And Maria was recognized by Beatrice and maybe Virgilia.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491176
Her role in the story is completely different from Hanyuu's. And Ryukishi did say that people familiar with Higurashi would be more easily misled, so it would make sense if that's why he's making these references.

>>5491206
Trying to merge Umineko and Higurashi introduces and entire layer of complexity to Higurashi that was never there originally and was not even hinted at. Higurashi does not need an extra meta-world with witches and there's no evidence for a witch battle in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491160

Bern was born from Higurashi. Lambda existed long before that. In fact Lambda caused Higurashi by granting Takano the power of certainty.

[Anonymous No.]

Lambda is just the personification of the act of murder.
That's how she gave power to Takano in Higurashi, Takano tried to become a god by killing.
That's how she gave power to Beatrice, the witch is revived by following the epitaph that involve murdering 13 people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491206
Her name is written in katakana:
フェザリーヌ・アウグストゥス・アウローラ

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491249
>Trying to merge Umineko and Higurashi introduces and entire layer of complexity to Higurashi that was never there originally and was not even hinted at.

That's how shared universes are usually born. They start out as a single, insular series, then another series comes out that shoehorns the first into a part of it and so on.

You can't seriously expect R07 to have already planned Umi back when he was still doing Higu. That doesn't mean he's not allowed to later retcon Higu into a part of Umi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491161
>no way he could be connected to his alter ego in Higurashi

Why not? Umineko happens few years after Higurashi. Yamainu worked under the cover of some company. He lost his job at the end of Higurashi.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491238
She talks about a little girl with a grimoire. I wouldn't be surprised if it referred directly to Maria, since she's the one we see scribbling in her grimoire all the time.

>>5491263
Maybe ΛΔ is Cain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491277
Except he never did so, on the contrary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491255
http://community.livejournal.com/witchhunters/6828.html
>Why does anyone think [Lambda] has appeared in Higurashi?

>Bernkastel and Furude Rika look similar, so people would think they are the same character. But Lambdadelta and Takano Miyo look nothing alike; they only have similar bangs and eye colour.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491263
Then why Lambda is pushing for eternal draw, supporting both Beato and Battler?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491289
Because, in a fiction, the greatest win for a murderer is to trap the detective into a perfect crime scenario he couldn't solve no matter what.

Bern is the personification of the concept of the "detective" by the way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491284
>>Bernkastel and Furude Rika look similar, so people would think they are the same character. But Lambdadelta and Takano Miyo look nothing alike; they only have similar bangs and eye colour.

Lambdadelta looks exactly like loli Takano in the flashback did, except for eye color, which is a trivial difference. Might as well claim that Bern doesn't look like Rika because Bern has a tail and Rika doesn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491249
>no evidence for a witch battle in it

Because there was no witch battle. Lambda granted Takano the power to make her wish true no matter what. Hanyuu created the time loop. Bern is just the by product of that situation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491269

Hanyuu is written as 羽入
羽 means Feather.
入 means "In".

It doesn't matter if her name is written in katakana.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491278
Because they're not in the same world. Battler says that he read a mystery novel called Higurashi and even describes a scene from Tatarigoroshi-hen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491303
Murderer shouldn't care about detective, but about his own well-being, that's why he usually commits crime. Perform perfect, unsolvable murder - witch did it, everyone agrees. Isn't it better?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490553
Funny, it's same for me, except replace George with Beatrice and you got it right. I loved the Beato in the beginning but now she's just a plain annoyance.

[Anonymous No.]

Lambda and Bern are real, and we will see them in the next When They Cry VN. Most likely along with Aurora.

You know it's true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491303
To add for Bern.
Higurashi was basically a thriller, a detective story, that's why Bern was the miko of Featherine, in the end the point of the game was to uncover the truth.

Ange and Bern relationship come from the fact that she could never let go of the incident, she was always wanted to uncover the truth.
And she always doubted Eva, that's why her "inner detective" told her to not get close to her.

And of course the yandere relationship between Bern and Lambda is easily understandable.
A detective and a murderer in a fiction is an inseparable relationship.

[Anonymous No.]

Hanyuu was real. There is no reason why some of the meta characters aren't real.

The misleading thing from Higurashi is the time loop. There is no time loop in Umineko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491331
>>Murderer shouldn't care about detective, but about his own well-being, that's why he usually commits crime. Perform perfect, unsolvable murder - witch did it, everyone agrees. Isn't it better?

Not in a detective story.
Lambda and Bern aren't simple concepts, they are the personification of concept found within fictions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491355
Higurashi isn't Umineko.
And just look at the themes and the whole meaning of magic that is repeated ad nauseam.
Honestly you would have to be pretty stupid to think there will be a Hanyuu twist by now.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491355
Hanyuu was real, but there's no reason to assume that the same rules governing Umineko also apply to Higurashi. Umineko may well have no supernatural beings in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491326

And that novel was written by Featherine. We have no idea if it's 100% similar to the real Higurashi. Actually anime suggest that they are a bit different. Look at the anime Maria is watching in TV.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491369
The anime Maria watches were actually the DVD extras from Kai. Search for "ura higu" on youtube.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491355
Then there's no time loop in Higurashi either. They just enter different worlds.

>>5491369
She's watching DVD extras.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491364

No magic is involved with the murders. There is no time loop. What we see on the game board is just fiction made by Featherine.

But there is no reason why Lambda and Bern can't exist. They are the readers of the story. Bern wants to uncover the truth fast and get it over with. Lambda want to prolong the fun as much as possible. They represent different types of readers, but that don't mean they don't exist as beings from the Sea of Fragments.

[Anonymous No.]

Honestly, everyone should have understand that the whole meta-world was a hoax when they saw Knox being a moe girl with frills

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491402
>>But there is no reason why Lambda and Bern can't exist
Because Featherine, also thematic, etc...
And they aren't the readers, they actually participate in the whole thing you know.

There is absolutely no reasons for Lambdadelta and Bernkastel to be real witches.
And there is no sea of fragments.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491405
But that was his daughter. (I guess he wasn't a very faithful priest.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491389

They don't just enter different worlds. Otherwise nobody but Rika would remember anything. Hanyuu turns back time and that creates a new kakera every time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491405
But she's his daughter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491420
>>5491427
They just used daughter because genderbending him would have been a bit too much.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491427
I wonder if Dlanor's puffy vulva symbolizes something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491418

They participate in the meta part of the game.

There is absolutely no reason why they can't be real. That don't change anything. At all.

[Anonymous No.]

I can't really see why people think Higurashi and Umineko aren't connected or placed in the same universe.

Battler mentioning Higurashi is a fucking reference, are you telling me Bern, Rika and Lambda past are just lolfiction?

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POiIIBmEuLQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_PSWojZhEs&feature=related

AHAHAHAHAHA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9rATk_cq10

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491432

Japan don't have problems with genderbending anything.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491452
Do you think the meta world is real?

[Anonymous No.]

Fuck, I just remembered that I like Umineko.

All of these fucking trolls and Shanon/Kanon fags almost made me believe that I hate the series.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491444
Well, that's what the world of witches is. Unless you deny them with red...or wait, you can't. Too bad, enjoy your doubts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491418
>There is absolutely no reasons for Lambdadelta and >Bernkastel to be real witches.
>And there is no sea of fragments.

Why not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491444
Once again, FEATHERINE.
Remember who she is, her place in the story, her connection with Bern and Lambda.

[Anonymous No.]

Was it said that Bern and Lambda are mentioned in Touka's fanfics at all?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491452

Only people who are desperate to throw out all magic and fantasy believe that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491460

To some degrees yes.

It's a fucking dimension outside time, it doesn't have to be real to exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491452
>>I can't really see why people think Higurashi and Umineko aren't connected or placed in the same universe.
Because they actually pay attention to the story

[Anonymous No.]

People who still believe that the meta-world is real probably don't pay much attention to the whole thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491486

Then, you should pay more attention and read all the shit about Bern and Lambda.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491486
post a proper answer instead of hurrdurr useless crap.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491473

Featherine is the writer of the story they are both enjoying. Creator = writer. Voyager = reader.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491452
And Lambda doesn't know who the culprit in Higurashi is, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5491486
>>5491499
>>5491496
Read the thread, there is enough answers for you.

The whole marriage sorciere, the whole meaning of magic, the definition of a "witch", all the talk about the meaning of mystery and fictions.
And then you have episode 6 that isn't even subtle anymore.

Seriously, pay attention.

[Anonymous No.]

There is no reason to use episodes 4 through 6 as a basis for solving the mystery since it was stated that it could be solved with 1 through 3. You are just given too much information that is ultimately obfuscating the truth.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5491543
You could solve Higurashi with the Question arcs too, but that doesn't mean the Answer arcs were useless.

[Anonymous No.]

Actual Umineko discussion on my /jp/?

NO WAY

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/... I think... I just got raped by my mother.

[Anonymous No.]

Actually I prefer episode 3 and up.

[Anonymous No.]

Even without assuming the higher-order witches are from Higurashi, you can still work out some interesting things about them based on what they say. For instance...

Lambda explained to Erika that Bern used to be the piece of an incompetent game master. That game master lost sight of her goals and created a logic error, so in order to resolve it, she forced Bern to try solutions at random. Bern only escaped because she was able to call forth a miracle and become a witch.

So who is this "incompetent game master"? Well, Lambda said in her diary that Bern was born from a game where she had helped a girl who wanted to become a god. And, Bern told Battler that she had once been trapped in a game created by Lambda.

So that would mean it was Lambda's fault that Bern was trapped in a logic error, and she's been keeping tabs on Bern out of guilt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5492124

That would mean Hanyuu was the game master. It actually fits because Hanyuu created the loop in Higurashi. And it explain Bern's hatred in EP6 tea party.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5492124
Your conclusions are wrong. ΛΔ in her diary says she's happy to have created another witch.

>>5492264
Hanyuu doesn't even know who the culprit is and she honestly wants to help Rika.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5492124
>Well, Lambda said in her diary that Bern was born from a game where she had helped a girl who wanted to become a god.
No, she didn't. She said:
>she created a new witch and sent her to me.
I don't see a name 'Bern' here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490461

It exists. An Umineko without witches and bullshit.

It's called "And Then There Were None". Read it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5492355
"Happy to have created another witch" != "happy to have tortured her for an eternity".

>>5492379
Do you see any other witches that could refer to, besides the "friend" that she mentions at the end of the diary?

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>5492432
ΛΔ keeps talking about how she wants to torture Bern in the VNs and she does enjoy making others suffer as well, so I don't see why you think she'd feel regret.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5492381
When and how the fuck the culprit managed to hang seaweed in her room? How the fuck they didn't realize that he's alive when carrying him? Is he a goddamn batman for stealthily moving around the house, moving objects and silently killing everyone? He sure is crafty to add a poison in plain sight. Planned victim's suicide is especially good and fail-safe.

[Anonymous No.]

Well, I know that Haruhi won my interest before the magic shit was introduced, and my heart afterwards only because I wasn't expecting it. I still want to see the show I thought I was gonna be watching, namely what the series would have been if there had never been any magic introduced.

Maybe if Umineko...

[Anonymous No.]

>>5492432
I see plenty of them. Prove that there are no witches besides that have appeared.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5492484
Did you read that part of EP6 where Lambda says that she's the only one who understands the horror Bern experienced, and because of that, she'll stay with her even though Bern's become a disgusting monster?

Lambda isn't just a caricature of chaotic evil. She's got more complex motivations than are apparent in the early part of the story.

[Anonymous No.]

I've always found the red truths to be confusing.

That is, to use a red truth implies 100% truth which would be impossible to use in the situations they are used in unless Beatrice was omniscient and not human. Would this not imply that she is a magic being and thus playing the game with red truth cause Battler's struggle to be pointless?

I also find the truth stating battle is ignorant to be concerning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493104
A writer can state a perfect truth about the fiction he wrote, since he created them.
Same thing with the red text and Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

OP, "admit?" I was thinking that from the first time a stake popped up in E2.

[Anonymous No.]

EP3 was the only good one. Before it Umineko was too boring and after it the story became too masturbatory.

[Trollkastel !!YSTYW7Om7uL No.]

Nice pics in this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

No.

If I had only read Episode 1 and never heard anything about the later episodes other than that they existed, I probably wouldn't have felt motivated to continue.

Up until Episode 5, each episode was better than the last, and I think that I at least liked 5 better than 2.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490480

>Umineko would be 50x better without George and the maid slut... I forget her name. They are so fucking annoying.

Agreed on both accounts.

Especially Shannon. Goddamn, I'm going to be so pissed if Shannontrice turns out to be true.

Its not looking good. Only saving grace is that authors in the anime subculture typically prefer to avoid two-timing sluts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5492379
How's this, then?

Bernkastel, EP2: "You are now just like I was in the past, when I was imprisoned inside Lambda's world. Shut inside a labyrinth of cruel fate, tormented by a witch, in a manner of speaking. I am a witch who was born from there."

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493526
Shannontrice is what makes BeaBat bearable instead of just LOL TSUNDERE WITCH FROM NOWHERE WHO LOVES BATTLER.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493526
I just dislike the idea of Sayo supposedly being this holy being of love, while in reality she just kills a fuckton of people.Part of what made episode 1, 2, 3, and 4 so great is that you were shocked and offended at the cruelty and brutality of the killer. Like, from the get go you know the culprit is BAD NEWS. I was under the mistaken impression that Beatrice was a scapegoat. The way things seem at the moment though is that she is simply a misguided serial killer.... wait, what?

The only truly innocent person on the island besides Battler and Maria now is Jessica, and I'm just waiting to see how she is a mustache twirling villain as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493723
Pretty much all of the murders that could have been done by her could have been done by another servant, except for the closed room with her, George and Gohda in EP2, and I'm starting to suspect that George and Shannon's relationship isn't quite as pure as it seems. It wouldn't surprise me if, to compare it with F/SN, George is the Shinji to Shannon's Sakura (Kinzo is Zouken).

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493104
>>5493118

The truth-stating in Umineko is reminiscent, probably an intentional reference, to the old (real world, as in our world) "detective game" where one player conjures up a riddle in form of a murder mystery and challenges the other to solve it. The tools of the solver are yes/no questions that must be answered truthfully.

Beatrice doesn't need to be omniscient any more than the master of the detective game needs to be. All she needs to know in order to use the red text is to know how the crime really happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493856
>All she needs to know in order to use the red text is to know how the crime really happened.

In other words, she needs to be the culprit herself (or a close associate anyway).

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493723
>Part of what made episode 1, 2, 3, and 4 so great is that you were shocked and offended at the cruelty and brutality of the killer. Like, from the get go you know the culprit is BAD NEWS. I was under the mistaken impression that Beatrice was a scapegoat.

I was shocked and offended by the cruelty and brutality of the meta-Beatrice, and later that of Eva-Beatrice. R07 did a good job painting them as complete shitheads with way too much power and to little responsibility, and the very thought that he might try to "redeem" them feels insulting to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493856
She states facts like 'there are no other exits' and 'there are 5 people in the room'

You cant have absolute truth of this. There is no absolute unless you are omniscient.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494001

I'm going to chalk such overstatements under R07 plain fucking up. We've seen before that his ambition exceeds his writing skills.

Either that, or the murders are fictional, and/or Beatrice is a figment of somebody's imagination, both of which situations return us to the setup where she can simply make up whatever she wants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494001
>There is no absolute unless you are omniscient.

Or you're playing the detective game.

It's really this simple: Beato designs a riddle, Battler takes a stab at solving it, Beato can rebuke the wrong parts of his attempt by the virtue that she is the one who designed it in the first place. In the context of their game, she knows all the facts.

[Anonymous ‮（≖‿≖ ） ‪‪‪‬ ‪‬ ‭‬ !Jones4ZrPA No.]

I agree, the Siestas totally killed the mood.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494165
>rebuke

Fuck, "refute".

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494173

The Stakes did it an entire episode before them. Everything after the Ass Nee-chans was just rubbing salt on the wound.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493723
Doubletrice was here, your body will not be ready.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494222
I takes at least two people to create a world @EP4

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494165
I am trying to point out the ridiculousness of the truths. Even if battler was able to destroy her red truths with some counter that led her into a contradictory position where she couldn't red truth herself out of, it does not 'win' anything for battler. The game itself does not prove whether or not witches or real or who is the murderer.

The fact that battler is playing the game under the assumption that the red truths are absolute truths is contradictory to his own stance.

Anyhow, if I was going to go for the anti-magic stance, I would have to ignore everything from the meta world, anything about ange, anything that happens after midnight, and anything involving a magic being - stakes, siestas, witches, butterflies and everything that happened in those scenes.

R07 is bombarding you with information which from the anti-magic standpoint is completely irrelevant and cant be trusted.

Its like trying to prove that animals cant write in a library of books written by animals. The given information cant be used.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494298
>The fact that battler is playing the game under the assumption that the red truths are absolute truths is contradictory to his own stance.

This is true, and so is your complaint that winning the game for either party really wouldn't mean much of anything, logically speaking.

End of Umineko, an act in one part:

Beatrice:
<red>"WITCHES ARE REAL AND I'M TOTALLY ONE".</red> What nooooooooow baaaaaatttleeeeerrr?

Battler:
"UEEEH UOOH AAAGH FUCK IT IT'S ALL USELESS okay guess what bitch: all you just did was prove that redtext is a bunch of lies too. Witches can't exist, and if red text says they do, red text lies."

Exeunt.

Their deadlock can only end if one of them gives up, but their "game" has little to no bearing on the giving up thing. If Battler explains one scenario, what is there to prevent Beato from inventing another? If Beato comes up with something inexplicable, why would that make Battler quit? She tried it four times with no success. The whole "game" is meaningless in this context.

If Beato really wanted to make Battler give up and admit that witches are real, the far better way would be to put battery cables on his nuts and keep them there until he cries uncle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494411
And this is why I find the additional games as unnecessary, distracting, and fundamentally not interesting. There is practically no advancement of the 'story' or mystery. Its just junk that purposely draws out the story so that nothing can be answered.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494411
Beato DOESN'T want him to give up and admit witches exist. She wants him to solve the mystery. There's just something that she needs him to figure out first before he can be allowed to find the culprit, and it's something he won't accept if she just tells it to him in red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490460
ｗWw.ＡｎoＸｎtＸＡｌｋ.sｅ_ＲeMｏVＥ AＬL_ｘ_TＨｅＲｅ_aｎＤ TＥＬl ＭOoＴ ＴO ｅat a_ｂucｋｅｔ Ｏf_niGｇEＲ DｉＣｋＳ
pquccbc hxzcb aw ufjrziqr nq gl ek uz

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494298
Without love it cannot be seen.

Beatrice never wanted to win this game at all, just to guide Battler into finding the truth about everything.

She wants to pump battler out, to make him fight and for him to build a will strong enough so he can face everything, but at the same time she doesnt want him to forget about love and that the culprit is also human.

Thus a bound of trust can be created. Beatrice doesnt want to fool Battler with some mumbo jumbo, she wants to really challenge him in a game he can win.

If you choose to you can ignore all reds and build all kinds of crazy theorys, you can ignore all of the metaworld, the hints and everything Beatrice says... but it would be like playing chess moving the pieces in any way you want.

Its not that you NEED to move x piece using x movement, you could throw the pieces away, move your opponent piece or even use them to poke someone in the eye. There's no magic involved that makes you obligated to move the pieces, but if you dont follow the rules you are simply not playing chess, and as the bound of trust is broken your opponent wouldnt ever want to play with you again.

Umineko is just like that, the game has it own set of rules accepted by both sides, it doesnt matter if red seems ridiculous looking from a human perspective, it doesnt matter if you dont like LOLMAGICFIGHTS, it doesnt matter if you dont like to see demons popping out everywhere... this is Beatrice's game and as long as you are inside her gameboard, following the estabilished rules, you have two options: accept the challenge or go away.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494462
You are too centered in small details to look at the whole picture...Umineko was never a simple '''mystery story'', its something entirely different

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494684
Who are you to decide?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494684
Referential meta fiction fanwanking with bad use of philosophy, bad breakdown of the mystery genre and horrid romances.
Yeah, it would be better staying as a Copycat of ten little niggers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494620
>Without love it cannot be seen
God, this is really what made everything a fucking mess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494856
Someone who's been paying attention to the story.

>>5494876

My opinion > Your opinion

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494902
If you really think the 'arguments' used are not skewered horribly and misused, you have a problem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494923

No anon you are the problem.

Umineko works not only for me but for a whole bunch of people that simply think different of you. Your taste was never relevant for me or for any of us neither it will change anything...so feel free to go under a rock and keep on ranting while we enjoy the upcoming episodes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494944
People can enjoy things while acknowledging faults, you know.
Foreign concept to fanboys, I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494923
I acknowledge that he misused the term "Hempel's Raven" to refer to the logical contrapositive, and I acknowledge that he took liberties with Schroedinger's Cat like every other author ever. It didn't get in the way of me understanding what he was talking about or enjoying the story. If you get upset by something so minor, that's your problem. Feel free to cry in the dark about it all you like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494944
>Umineko is perfect and if you don't agree then fuck you. Me and my buddies at animesuki agree so it's obviously true!

[Anonymous No.]

Everytime I see this thread on the front page and see
>Shit was scary as hell
I laugh so fucking hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494968
...Well, that was similar to >>5494944 entirely by accident.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494963
If it is a fault or not is still your opinion not a fact, just saying

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494969
>>5494963
maximumtrolling.jpg

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494968
That was just an example, lest you forgot the ORIGINAL post.
You are quick to jump around and forget the original point.
Kinda makes sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494969
I dont know what makes you and your friends from touhou fortress best than these 15 yrs old from animesuki...at least some of them may not die virgins

[Anonymous No.]

>>5494969
I dont know what makes you and your friends from touhou fortress better than these 15 yrs old from animesuki...at least some of them may not die virgin

[Anonymous No.]

after re-reading ep 1 i definitely appreciated it more than the others

i generally love the series but from ep 4 on it started being a clusterfuck and stopped bothering to speculate on things that aren't actual clues and things that you see happen that "dont happen"

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495025
Yeah, because having the potential to have sex improves the quality of their taste in VNs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493723
> I was under the mistaken impression that Beatrice was a scapegoat.
But that's not a mistaken impression. Beatrice IS a scapegoat.

Of course, there's always the possibility that "Beatrice" is both the culprit AND a scapegoat. Fuck yeah Doubletrice.

[Anonymous No.]

It's kind of funny how the animesuki people are still coming up with new stuff and having fun, and the /jp/ people are mostly complaining about how terrible it is and not having fun, and yet the /jp/ people think they're better off.

[Angry Type-Moon Girl !MOONRXwPDU No.]

I lol'd when /a/ was full of Umineko roleplayers.

[Anonymous No.]

While may be true that the story would be better if the only mystical element was Beatrice, you have to remember that everything you see is either bullshit unless confirmed to be true or an allegory (Erika being the players who want to solve the mystery by pinning the crimes on someone rather than proving that a human could do the murders i.e. getting way in over her head, Beatrice herself being a scapegoat for murders with unexplainable consequences and such and being a legend with different interpretations, etc.).

In turn this may lead Umineko into becoming an Author Tract on how modern mysteries aren't as engaging anymore due to unnecessary frills and lace to the story and trying to make the villain obvious and stupid once s/he's found out, or too many characters and not enough actual story.

tl;dr Either Ryu07 is telling us something about modern mysteries or me and him are on the bullshit wagon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495138
>It's kind of funny how the animesuki people are still coming up with new stuff and having fun, and the /jp/ people are mostly complaining about how terrible it is and not having fun, and yet the /jp/ people think they're better off.

Maybe because /jp/ isn't Umineko/general. I also have no idea why you're on /jp/. Why don't you go back to animesuki and stay there instead of being around us horrible people?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495252
That, and don't they have a specific forum for this?

[Anonymous No.]

Not really lol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495217
>Either Ryu07 is telling us something about modern mysteries
If what you read also has problems, point is moot.

[Anonymous No.]

ITT Touhou and TM fags that are pissed for having to share /jp/ with uminekofags

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495327
That could be the point, but at this point for me, I'm just pulling things outta my ass. I'm reading Umineko for the witches, for the trolling, and for the mystery; who cares if there are problems.

MST3K mantra and so on.

[Keeper of !SajuukntOY No.]

>>5495337
That doesn't seem likely at all.

It's the same people that failtroll such threads posting in this one trying to cause trouble.

[Anonymous No.]

Just thought I'd leave this here in response to the other cosplay photos.


Also, Umineko is just as good in Episode 3 as it is in Episode 1. But fuck, what is 07 doing lately?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495386
Trying to figure out how to copy BT's style.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495386
Shrooms, maybe?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495386
Hi pretty lady!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495138
Well if they want to have fun talking about a single VN over and over that's good for them. People on /jp/ have fun playing many different VNs, so it's understandable that they get tired of Umineko discussion 24/7.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495409
Truth.

>>5495429
Not the pretty lady, but HELLO, DEAR ANON.
I do love that Virgilia cosplayer though. God, the things I would do to her...

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495446
Maybe they should stop bumping the threads with endless streams of complaining then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495480
This is a thread specifically about Umineko's quality so they have every right to voice a negative opinion. I don't know if they also complain in theory threads because I hide those on sight due to them always being terrible. If they do then yeah that's pretty bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5490461

I like the furniture, it makes things more "surreal"

But yeah, EPISODE 1 is far scarier than any of the games so far. But you can still get scared in any moment of Umineko when you realize there's a murderer running around planning the deaths of 18 people.

I always imagine it as some shadowy looking faceless man with a malicious smile. Even though it's probably gonna be something else

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495963
I agree with you on that, I just re-read 1-4 again and episode 1 is the only one that gets me scared. Everything after that you have a "witch" and "magic" so it deludes the terror of it being a human.

Human-made murders are far more scarier than magic ones since the culprit is among humans. That is why Episode 1 blows everything after out of the water. I just hope 7+8 bring back some of that, but of course it won't I'm just being hopeful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5493640
And this part is lacking
>she had helped a girl who wanted to become a god


>>5494298
Battler doesn't have to deny witches and magic in general. He only needs to prove that the murders were carried out without them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5495138
>It's kind of funny how the animesuki people are still coming up with new stuff and having fun, and the /jp/ people are mostly complaining about how terrible it is and not having fun, and yet the /jp/ people think they're better off.

It's better to be right than happy.

[Anonymous No.]

It all ends with Maebara Keiichi losing a game of Cluedo during club activities and playing a forfeit game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5496196
Well, E6 is pretty grimdark.

It's not Meakashi, but it's still damn grimdark.

[Anonymous No.]

No, actually I think it gets better with every episode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5498132
I'm okay with this

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

To be honest I enjoyed Higurashi more as I think Umineko has become too convoluted. I hope the ending will straighten things out, though I'm not that optimistic.