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5247763 No.5247763 [Reply] [Original]

And yet another C&D
http://novelnews.net/2010/05/26/ip-blocks-revisited/

>UPDATE 3: Anime Novel appears to have received a second email, this time for Hime x Hime and Pastel.


>Hello, my name is Tokuyama, from upset co.,ltd.

>The creation of English translation patches for our company's games "Hime x Hime" and "Pastel" on your website infringes on our copyrights, so we would like you to immediately stop doing so.

>Our company is looking into overseas sales on our own, and thus we would like our overseas fans to wait for an official release respecting our copyrights. We hope you understand.

>> No.5247765

ooooooooold

>> No.5247772

Oh boy, rage will happen.

>> No.5247777

Well... if they are going to release it officially, i guess we will have to wait, its not like they are going, OMG WHY ARE GAIJIN READIN OUR FANCY GIRL PICTURE BOOKS

>> No.5247779

Never heard of Hime Hime or Pastel. Reviews say mediocre. Cannot care.

>> No.5247787

>>5247765
> ooooooooold

This is a second one after yesterday's.

>> No.5247792

Anime Novel was some shitty MAL translation group who had no idea what they were doing. Don't worry about it.

>> No.5248071
File: 34 KB, 377x421, faggotdetected.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5248071

>>5247792

>> No.5248093

No big loss, I don't think Anime Novel will ever complete a project.

>> No.5248103

>>5248071
Anime Novel devs detected.

>> No.5248113

http://jp.gfx-beta.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

>> No.5248188

>>5247763

I'm all for respecting the author's wishes and obeying the law (within reason), but the fact that these nastygrams tend to emphasize the very creation of a translation patch (rather than distribution) makes me rage.

You don't get a say in how we use your work (at least not privately). Kindly fuck off.

>> No.5248285

>>5248188
At least this time they said they were looking to sell overseas, and if there is any truth to that then they have a legit interest in shutting down fan translations.

>> No.5248551

That upset co.,ltd. knows how to make reasonable requests. After all, my main interest is getting a VN English translated; if the devs are going to make a translation themselves, it's even better. If I got such email, I would've stopped publicising any updates for, say, 6 months (reasonable time for devs to announce English release). If the devs don't announce English version by then, I'd treat C&Ds NNL way.

>> No.5248569

>>5247763
"That's great, and we'll eagerly await your release. But until you release it overseas, fuck off."


Why do people not have balls?

>> No.5248769

>>5248188
Cause when you pay for software, you don't actual pay for the ownership of it - you pay for a license to use the software, dictated by terms given to you by the developer.

But then again, you would just pirate it anyways, so there's even less ground to stand on.

>> No.5248783

>>5248769
Not everyone would pirate it ;_;

>> No.5248785

protip: balls

>> No.5248818

>upset co.,ltd.
HOW APPROPRIATE

>> No.5248829

>>Our company is looking into overseas sales on our own
Are they serious with this or is it just a lie?

>> No.5248832 [DELETED] 

>>5247760

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>> No.5248833

>>5248769
>Cause when you pay for software, you don't actual pay for the ownership of it
This is what retards actually believe.

>> No.5248835

This is why more and more projects should be done in secret and only announced when close to completion.

>> No.5248837

Software as a service = one of the worst concepts ever for a consumer. Its already creeping into the games market, and its bad news all around.

>> No.5248848

>>5248188
>the fact that these nastygrams tend to emphasize the very creation of a translation patch (rather than distribution) makes me rage

You can't be serious, right? They're addressing people who have stated their intention to translate and release a patch for public distribution, and just saying "stop". They're not going after someone translating for their own personal use, and any emphasis you see is purely imagined.

>> No.5248850

>>5248835
That helps nothing. it will only make it potentially worse for us. Imagine two people secretly translating the same game...Wasted effort.

If they don't plan on licensing out their games, then the patch hurts no one.
If they do plan on licensing their games, then they should license before a translation project is finished.
This is the best approach for everybody.

>> No.5248854

>>5248769
No. The law of each country overrides this license bullshit, and several court rulings in countries such as Australia and the US have said that EULAs and such bullshit generally aren't worth the electricity required to display them.

>> No.5248855

>>5248113
>2 dead projects
Riiiiiiiiiight.

>> No.5248862

>>5248850
Well its easy to say "so and so is making a patch for" and leave it at that. No website or email for companies to send C&D letters to.

>> No.5248864

>>5248855
They're not dead, one of them has the prologue translated ;_;

>> No.5248883

>>5248862
>Well its easy to say "so and so is making a patch for" and leave it at that
Extra vulnerable to trolling. We shouldn't go there.

(like even now, I still think nobody is actually translating baldr sky, even though it's been claimed. But I'm pretty sure no one else is ever going to pick it up now)

>> No.5248910

>>5248883
Like anyone was going to anyways.

>> No.5248919

Translation patches aren't even copyright infringement. TL-Wiki's posting of script files is, but their translation and creation of a patch (assuming the patch really is a patch (a diff and something to apply it) and not a "unpack and overwrite files" 'patch') is not.

Also "our game might not meet standards in other countries" is the worst fucking excuse ever.

>> No.5248926

>>5248910
It came pretty close, twice. If it wasn't for that inganock game and muv luv, it would hav ebeen translated.

>> No.5248942

>>5248848

They can legally ask to stop the distribution of the translation - to some degree, again - being a derivative work and all, but just the fact that somebody is translating a game they bought is perfectly legal and none of their fucking business. (Hell, I bet a determined lawyer could find a legal excuse to distribute it, too.)

Know your rights, fellow anons. Modern copyright laws are bullshit - more so in the US of A than elsewhere - so don't take anymore of it than you have to.

>> No.5248956

>projects should be done in secret and only announced when close to completion
My problem with this is that it's like sticking your head under the ground and feigning ignorance.
>lalala, I can't hear you, you can't sue me
1. They're not going to sue you just because you ignore their C&D.
2. If they ARE going to sue for ignoring the C&D, they will just as like be suing you for having translated the patch in secret, efter you release the patch.
So ignoring C&Ds is just as safe as what you are proposing.

>> No.5248968

>>5248956
Not really. Who are they going to sue without people to track it to when they aren't hosting a website for the patch?

>> No.5248970

Just stay in your IRC channels, you don't need a gay-ass website for your translation project.

>> No.5248972

>>5248942
Well of course they can keep translating if they want, but who the heck goes about doing that without intent to distribute at some level?
And of course, translation patches here in general tend to have a direct correlation with the piracy rate of the VN, which is another concern of the developers.

>> No.5248975

>>5248926
And the reason it wasn't translated had nothing to do with the other guy claiming to be translating it.

>> No.5248979

>>5248970
This is fine with me. I'm not so sure it'll stop companies from sending their C&Ds though...

>> No.5248981

>>5248970
This.

Word of mouth only.

>> No.5248982

>>5248942
Distributing a patch that is simply a list all of the differences between the original file and the file with the translations (as well as something to apply those differences), cannot truly be said to be an infringement of copyright, because it does not contain the script in and of itself. You NEED the original work to be able to see the translated version.

Sadly many translators take the lazy route of just packaging the translated scripts and either using a self-unpacker or asking the end-user to extract and overwrite the original files themselves. These packages contain the full script files, and thus DO NOT need the original work to be read (though it may need an appropriate tool to access).

Message had the right idea, though was clearly incompetent at it.

>> No.5248991

>>5248972
>translation patches here in general tend to have a direct correlation with the piracy rate of the VN
This is true, but is of no relevance since close to zero of those "lost sales" would have ever existed since those people couldn't read moon anyway. What is far more relevant is the increased number of sales GAINED by the company from people who buy the game due to now being able to read it.

>> No.5248992

>>5248979

Who are they going to send it to? I don't think you understand how IRC works

>> No.5248997

>>5248972
>And of course, translation patches here in general tend to have a direct correlation with the piracy rate of the VN, which is another concern of the developers.

Yes, because piracy in a market you don't expect to see sales from is important for a businesses bottom line.

>> No.5248999

>>5248968
>without people to track it to
What makes you think they can't track it?

>> No.5249005

>>5248992
>Who are they going to send it to?
The guy responsible the the channel perhaps?

>> No.5249009

>>5247763
This is why we need to revolutionize the translation scene with more retrans like projects. Without a single established group, there's really nothing to target!

>> No.5249013

>>5249009
Preferably with an interface that doesn't suck, though.

>> No.5249033

>>5249005

Sorry, I'm having trouble imagining one of them tracking down where their hideyhole is much less going in the channel and making demands. It's just ridiculous.

>> No.5249050

>>5248997
Well, it would certainly be a disincentive to officially localized, though, if your VNs have already been translated and pirated back to hell and back by those who would bother with them in the first place. Not that applies to most companies, given the very niche market here.
Still, it wouldn't really be fair to their paying fans in Japan to basically allow this to go unchallenged. Before, it wasn't such a big issue because nobody talked really about it - but after these past few developments, more people in Japan have been made aware of the issue and I think some companies feel compelled to make some sort of response to this.

>> No.5249065

>>5249050
Their "paying fans in Japan" don't give a fuck about whether some random gaijin can read VNs or not.

>> No.5249087

>>5249065
Actually, there were quite a bit of moonrune rage threads from a couple of .jp, sites IIRC.

>> No.5249092

Interested in bringing the VN over seas?

Employ fans to be translators

Win win

>> No.5249098

>>5249033
Some faggot will lead the companies to that hideyhole. There's obviously someone going around and telling the companies which blogs are currently translating what, it'll be no different with irc.

>> No.5249110

>>5249098
You seem to not understand IRC.

>> No.5249111

>>5249098

There's a huge difference, most people don't even know what IRC is.

>> No.5249112

>>5248829

Think about it. You're managing a small company, and are about to take the risk of entering a new market.

Enter the fan translation. You can send as many C&D's as you like, hope they stop and nobody else picks it up, but there's now a very real risk of being beaten to market by this free translation and losing already questionable profits.

Unless you already have major investments made into your own translation, trying to rush to release it before the unofficial one instead of just cancelling would be plain stupid.

If you're extra butthurt, however, you could also spend many $ thousands to track down and sue the people responsible and destroy any hope of ever seeing profit again.

Conclusion: there's no point to these C&D's other than arrogance and/or stupidity with a heaping of plain old ignorance. Don't get your hopes up.

>> No.5249125

>>5249112
Why does you conclusion contradict your points? That's pretty what they have to do if they want to chance releasing something here.

>> No.5249133

>>5249125
You're a retard.

>> No.5249137

>>5249112
Or you could perhaps announce that you're localising. Contrary to popular opinion many translators don't like doing work that someone else is going to do legimately again later.

>> No.5249160

>>5249137

That could work... if you're reasonably sure there aren't any fan projects yet.

Obviously too late in this case. And again, who knows what goes on in their heads.

>> No.5249167

>>5249111
They guy(s) pushing the companies at us seems to be very persistent though. I just can't imagine something like irc will stop them.

>>5249110
Care to elaborate?

>> No.5249216

>Conclusion: there's no point to these threads other than arrogance and/or stupidity with a heaping of plain old ignorance.

>> No.5249259

Websites and blogs are dumb if you want to stay under the radar. Old school translators know this.

>> No.5249262

I think Minori is urging everyone to send C&Ds.

>> No.5249271

If they're releasing it overseas then we really don't need a translation patch now right? The translators should stop and start helping out with translating fate/stay ataraxia. Problem solved.

>> No.5249274

I'm pretty sure that >>5249137 will work. If I had a VN making company and didn't want my VN to be patched, I'd C&D translators first and if they don't comply, I'd announce translation negotiations with several unnamed overseas companies. If I actually plan to translate it, I'll proceed. If not, I'll win some time to rip all profits on domestic market before declaring that "negotiations" failed.

>> No.5249278

>>5249112
>trying to rush to release it before the unofficial one instead of just cancelling would be plain stupid.
They don't even need to do this. Just license the damn game to someone like Mangagamer or Jast. Once the license has been announced, the unofficial translators will most likely stop.

>> No.5249283

>>5247763
Hey at least they're planning on entering the market. It's not like they're dicks who just send C&D without planning on releasing for us, see Kara no Kyoukai translation. Mean motherfuckers.

>> No.5249289

>>5249283
>Hey at least they're planning on entering the market
I don't believe it until I see some announcement from Jast or MG.

>> No.5249295

>>5249160
>Obviously too late in this case.
Are you sure? I thought Pastel was only 3% translated....

>> No.5249300
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5249300

>>5249283
>Kara no Kyoukai translation

>>5249271
>fate/stay ataraxia

>> No.5249325

The sense of entitlement of you fuckers is nauseating.

>> No.5249347

>>5249325
So? I'll be a greedy fuck if I want to.

>> No.5249355

>>5249325
Maybe. But you have to admit that it's a dick move of them to simply send a C&D to stop a project without any plan to actually localize the games.

>> No.5249374

>>5249355
Nope, because it's their fucking right. I regret this as much as the next anon, but they have the right to do it.
This is why translation groups who do it for ego and not out of love for the games are cancer.

>> No.5249381

>>5249355

It's definitely related to the minori thing, if they don't actually plan to localize.

I'm amused at their thinking that alienating Western fans will PROTECT THE INDUSTRY.

>> No.5249387

>>5249374
>but they have the right to do it
They have the right, so that automatically means it's not a dick move?
It just sounds to me that you're a poor little confused guy.
>not out of love for the games
I could love a game, but hate the developers. You understand that, right?

>> No.5249393

>>5249374
>it's their fucking right
No, it is not. It is NOT their right to tell people whether they may or may not assist others in reading something that they've written. Distribution is one thing. Translation is an entirely different matter, and one in which they should have no say.

>> No.5249410

>>5249374
It could be argued that the group who dropped Eden didn't love that game so much.
And in the other ring corner, NNL loved ef so much that they ignored the assholes at Minori.

>> No.5249419

>>5249393
Fucking THINK, the translation is going to be circulated, that is distributing a PART of their work and copyright laws clearly state that circulating a work as a whole and/or part is against the law.

Now if the people translating it was doing so just for their personal use then you'd have an argument, but they're NOT. Not to mention the script was probably ripped from an illegal copy.

I'm not arguing the company's defense, just clarifying the misconception that translating it with intent of circulation isn't legal.

>> No.5249423

>Anime Novel
>Status: Pastel (Stalled) | Hime x Hime 11/?
>Translated by some autistic kid
>Images: 3 Posts: 82
jaypee, jaypee

>> No.5249428

>>5249374
>The group who dropped Eden didn't love that game so much. And cares so much about their ego and reputation that they had to drop it in order to not look bad to their hardcore otaku colleagues like mt-i and his ilk.
To further the point.

>> No.5249608

>>5249419
>copyright laws clearly state
This is where you are going wrong. Copyright laws are fucking retarded. Legally granted privileges != rights, even if they say "right" in the name.

>> No.5249955

>>5249428
Honestly, did you expected Jaka, one of GG's translators and one of the worst trolls in fansubbing to actually love an eroge despite him hating the entire medium?
It was obvious from the start that he does it for the quick epenis fame, and because it's short. He still lost motivation toward this soon back in january or february though.

>> No.5250110

>>5249955
I'm just pointing out a flaw in your logic. You were trying to imply that groups who stop the translation at request ofits creators are the only ones who love the game.

>> No.5250145

>>5250110
>your logic
Sorry, I was a different, unrelated Anon who just commented on this debate.

>> No.5250171

THE MINORI EFFECT

A REASONABLE CONCLUSION TO ALL THE RECENT C&D TRANSLATIONS. FUCK.

>> No.5250177

they should just ignore the C&D

>> No.5250236

Eroge companies are not losing profit if someone translate their games, so they need to chill the fuck out.

>> No.5250259

>>5250236
Those who don't ever want to localize the game to English don't lose any profit.

Those who do want to bring these games to English market will in fact lose some profit.

>> No.5250289

>Those who do want to bring these games to English market will in fact lose some profit.

How? If people were willing to pirate the japanese version of the game because it received an english patch, why wouldn't they just pirate the english version when it comes out anyway?

>> No.5250307

>>5250289
Well, I can imagine that there'd be a fanbase that would be much more willing to buy domestically than having to import and inflating the price to double in the process.

But yeah, I doubt it's going to make much of a difference. I don't think anyone denies that the reason these companies are doing this has nothing to do with money.

>> No.5250317

>>5250289
>How?
They get licensing fees from companies like Jast and MG. As you can imagine, Jast/MG will not be stupid to put their efforts into licensing games that already been downloaded by everybody.
And so the original company won't ever have a chance to license their games to anyone.

This isn't a problem for jerks companies like Minori. But we should still respect the others, like Nitro+, Navel, etc.

>> No.5250326
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5250326

You guys are aware that no project has been dropped due to the C&Ds, right? I'm afraid some of you think that, which is not the truth.

>> No.5250333

This isn't one of the larger companies, so there may be some truth in their plans to bring games over.

If you have a decent market share in your domestic market, then there isn't any significant reason to experiment with new markets, however if you are a small company who has a hard time competing in your domestic market, you will be looking for every available revenue stream, and suddenly the uncrowded foreign market looks much nicer.

>> No.5250334

>>5250326
All the Black Lilith games have their projects dead. Eden was also dropped as well.

>> No.5250343

>>5250334
Eden* was not dropped because of the C&D, the whole staff (not only jaka) didn't want to work on the project anymore. And yeah, you're right on the Black Lilith thing, but there's not point on worrying about some nukiges.

>> No.5250349

>>5250343
>but there's not point on worrying about some nukiges.
Yes there are. I was actually looking forward to Lilia ;_;

>> No.5250356

>>5250343
Fuck you, I care about nukiges.

>> No.5250467

ffffucking DAMNIT.....
hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119791
>I'd quickly like to address concerns regarding my translation of Princess Lilia as I've received numerous inquires and truly appreciate the communities interest.
>Do to life events I have had to begin translating the game from scratch

>>5248835
Do you see now???
This is why I fucking hate when people do that. They NEVER backup their stuff. There's always something like getting mud flooded, or airport arrested, or something else shit happening.
This guy has been going at some fap game for years, and suddenly he loses it and need to start all over...FUCK. This is why wiki projects reassure me so much more....

>> No.5250472

>>5250467
>This is why wiki projects reassure me
Stop sucking Moogy's cock.

>> No.5250491

>>5250472
Fuck Moogy. I'm just pissed when shit like this happens.

Also, have you seen the Farland readme?
>Things were moving along smoothly, however during November 2003 the worst thing that could possibly happen did happen. Soulfang lost all of the work (9 chapters) due to hard drive problems with no possible way of recovering it.
Not that I care about that game. But if I cared, I'd be pissed too.

>> No.5251654

I'd never listen to a C&D because you know those idiots will back down on content since "hey, this could be questionable material in Britain!".

I'd rather ruin their foreign market with full game translations than get localized dummy versions for all the old aunts that are afraid of porn.

I'm still amazed anyone bothers to listen to Jast until they release uncensored games.

>> No.5251813

>>5251654
Has anything recently been censored from Jast besides two scenes in Family Project?

Also, MangaGamer releases significantly faster, yet they aren't censored. They are releasing fucking Koihime uncensored, so I doubt that there is any concern about them censoring anytime soon.

>>
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