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5213737 No.5213737 [Reply] [Original]

Umineko general.

Who do you think the mastermind is?

>> No.5213738

BROOOOOTHER

>> No.5213739

>>5213737
ur mom

>> No.5213742
File: 659 KB, 680x2967, Aristocrats.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5213742

>> No.5213747

Well judging from the the end of the fourth chapter, they'd have to have a way to look like Beatrice.
At least, from a distance.

>> No.5213751

Patchouli and koakuma worked together to kill everyone and Sakuya/Shannon wears pads!

>> No.5213761

>>5213747

Can't help but be crushingly suspicious of Jessica.

She has her Witch outfit from TSURUPETTAN!! so she could just wear that.

>> No.5213763

It's Battler himself. He doesn't murder anyone, but it's all his fault anyway because he forgot to bring back his pony. The sinner is the culprit. QED

>> No.5213776

I miss when there were just 3 episodes...

>> No.5213780

>>5213738
LIQUID?!

>> No.5213787

A witch did it.

>> No.5213788

>>5213761
Because Marisa's outfit = 'the dress from the portrait'/the suit Beato wears.

>> No.5213791

Aight, first chapter, closed room where Eva and Hideyoshi die?
Kannon done did it.
The chain was already cut by the time Battler got there, so it could have gone like this:
Kannon is inside the room, kills Eva and Hideyoshi, sets the chain from the inside, and cuts it.
Goes outside with his chain cutters.
Now it looks like the chain was cut from the outside.
And for this story to work, Kumasawa and Genji would have to be in on it.
Ergo, it's the servants.
Can never trust the working class.

>> No.5213797

>>5213788

From a distance, maybe it could fool somebody.. Maybe.

It's the closest thing to a witch's outfit I can think of in Umineko, anyway.

>> No.5213808

>>5213791
why can't he just kill them after he cuts the chain from the outside?

>> No.5213811

.>>5213797
I don't think she'd need a witch's outfit.
But suspicion is starting to stack up for her.
After all, she did call Battler to say she was "already dead".

>> No.5213820

>>5213808
That too could work.
Or cutting then setting the chain.
Either way, the "closed room" is full of holes.
None of which Battler challenged because he's an idiot.
In fact he didn't find out until Ange told him that you can use *gasp* MULTIPLE THEORIES!

>> No.5213822

>>5213811

Yeah, that too.

Saying that demons and witches killed her, and saying George is probably dead too.

I mean, really, Jessica.

When you go back to the episodes knowing that Kinzo is dead before the start of the episodes, it really opens up a ton of suspicions, too, eh?

Roooooooooosa.

>> No.5213827

>>5213811
But knowing Ryukishi that also could have been someone else imitating her voice or some BS like that.

>> No.5213852

>>5213811
Knox's 6th: It is forbidden for ACCIDENT or intuition to be employed as a detective TECHNIQUE!

>>5213827
Knox's 8th. It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED...!!

Was it ever shown prior to episode 5 that anyone was talented at voice acting?

>> No.5213857

Shannon, but the whole thing is Kinzo's fault.

>> No.5213860

>>5213852
Alright alright.
But I don't exactly see how that 6th rule applies.

>> No.5213863

>>5213852

Wait, wait, I'm not following your reasoning for Knox's 6th.

It's forbidden for accident or intuition to be employed as detective techniques. What's that mean for Jessica, who only lied about herself?

>> No.5213872

>>5213852
It'll sure be funny when R07 goes BTW UMINEKO ISN'T A REAL MYSTERY and Knox shit will all be unusable

>> No.5213878

It's magic. Magic has been real this whole time. Why won't you just listen to me?

>> No.5213881

>>5213878
Magic might have been real, but it was not present or employed in the murders of Rokkenjima.

>> No.5213882

>>5213863
It applies to Knox's 6th the same way as Rudolf does.

Saying "I'm going to die" is intuition and we should not suspect someone because they intuitively knew they were going to die or because they intuitively knew someone else was dead. These things cannot be used as evidence that someone is the culprit.

>> No.5213888

>>5213882
Ah, but she did not PREDICT her death, she claimed she had ALREADY died.
That was not conventional use of intuition, so I challenge your use of Knox's 6th.

>> No.5213890

>>5213878
because nobody listens to Maria

>> No.5213896

>>5213882

Oookay I sort of see where you're coming from.

It sounds a little far fetched though. Your reasoning sounds too stretched.

Besides, the fact still stands that she told Battler a damn witch killed her and that she thought George was probably dead. Even though if she knew nothing, she would assume George would still be with Battler.

>> No.5213913

Any plausible explanation for the last closed room in EP 6 ?
Is Kannon made of air ?

>> No.5213918

>>5213913
Episode 6?
...Has that been translated yet?

>> No.5213919 [DELETED] 

>>5213888
I'm pretty sure George left for his test before Jessica did, but I might be remembering it wrong.

>> No.5213923

I believe the Umi-Nekos had a part in this. Call me crazy but they were the only body not counted for in the mansion, right? That means they could have easily circumvented the security.

>> No.5213924

>>5213919
They left the room together I'm pretty sure.

>> No.5213928

>>5213896
I'm pretty sure George left for his test before Jessica did, but I might be remembering it wrong

>> No.5213929

maybe they were all killing each other for the money?

>> No.5213931

>>5213919
>>5213924

Yeah I'm not sure, either. So the George bit is a little shaky. Eheheh.

But still, I'm certain she said a witch or demon attacked her and that "magic is deffinetly real so don't try fighting them, Battler".

You can't ignore that she's trying to lie to Battler.

>> No.5213937

>>5213929
Naw man, think Higurashi.
There's probably some deep seated psychological issues behind the murders.
Much like Takano in Higurashi.

>> No.5213948

>>5213937
Is it family love?

>> No.5213960

>>5213948
>family love
That might explain why the culprit in episode 6 is a yandere who severs all the mother's heads.

>> No.5213990

>>5213948
Maybe its that they need to love kinzo more because he only has a while left to live?

>> No.5214034

>>5213990
He's already dead before the series begins, dude.
And someone like Jessica who lives in the mansion is sure to know that.

>> No.5214039 [DELETED] 

>>5214034
Wait so but natsuhi and the doctor were talking to him(if i remeber correctly) was that a fake too?

>> No.5214079

The most important truth revealed so far is that Kinzo was dead before the series began. The fifth arc deliberatly didn't explore the logical conclusions of that statement and instead gave us a flashy high fantasy light show.

There is some way to move from the foundational truth 'Kinzo is dead at the start of all games' to the motive behind all the murders. Analyzing Kinzo's influence over parts 1-3 is the important part.

>> No.5214125

>>5214034
Jessica is never told though, I think Kumasawa was supposed to tell her in EP5 but Natsuhi stops her. Also Only the people in that room know that Kinzo that was dead, therefore only those people could've burnt Kinzo's body during the height of the murder madness.

I personally believe it's Krauss who burns Kinzo's body, and I think he's the murderer, not the mastermind though. I think he's the one playing killer only to get overthrown by someone smarter than him.

>> No.5214135

>>5214125
He wouldn't get very far in Episode 1 then, but from a standpoint of 4 it does look plausible that it's him.

>> No.5214157

The Umi-Neko Theory

The culprit has used the servants to capture all of the seagulls around the island, they have all been tied to a small bomb and starved. When the final day ends the seagulls are released upon the island and the bombs detonate as they descend upon the family members desperate for food. This is foreshadowed by George asking "Where are the seagulls!" in the first episode or whatever therefore it can not be blocked by Knox's rules.

CHECKMATE

>> No.5214161

>>5214034
>>5214125
We don't even really know that Kanon and Shannon know that Kinzo is dead. They aren't shown in the room while Nanjo, Genji, and Kumasawa are. And Natsuhi said not to tell anyone outside that room.

>> No.5214221 [DELETED] 

>>5213737
I got one better

Umineko is a romance and Beatrice = super AIDS

>> No.5214228

>>5214157
I got one better

Umineko is a romance and Beatrice = super AIDS

>> No.5214247

>>5214161
They're Kinzo's chosen servants.
They can come and go into his study as they please, THEY KNOW HE'S DEAD.

>> No.5214266

>>5214157
That's too silly for even Umineko.

>> No.5214274

>>5214247
At most only two keys to Kinzo's room exist. Only Genji and Natsuhi have them

>> No.5214292

>>5214161
Oh, Shannon and Kanon know. In Episodes 1&2 they're interacting with his phantom.

>> No.5214299

>>5214274
Natsuhi has to borrow Genji's key in EP1 though, so I don't think she has a key.

>> No.5214367

>>5213852
actually it was always said that kumasawa was a good actress, lier, and somehow managed to convince everyone in the past convention to think kinzo was not only alive but pissed off with the parents.

>> No.5214894

>>5213852
Strictly following the Knox's rules (8 and 10 especially) we have to conclude that only Jessica was able to dress like Beatrice, because she's the only one to have clues for cross-dressing.

>> No.5214909

>>5214894
>Jessica
>clues for cross-dressing
what on earth are you talking about?

>> No.5214915

>>5214894
Nice to know that she can exist in 2 different places then.

>> No.5214932

>>5214894
A clue that points to the person that is pretending to be Beatrice doesn't have to be a clue about cross-dressing.

>> No.5214935
File: 277 KB, 640x480, bg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5214935

>>5214909

>> No.5214940

>>5214915
That's due to unreliable narration.

>> No.5214943

>>5214935
cosplay =/= cross dressing your stupid fuck

>> No.5214951

>>5214940
The end of episode 1 was seen from Battler's POV, Beatrice appeared and Jessica was there as well.

>> No.5214953

>>5214943
lol

>> No.5214962

>>5214943
Continue to assure yourself.
Other characters don't have even that level of a clue.

>> No.5214985

>>5214962
Not my point.Cross dressing is dressing up look like the opposite gender. It's not remotely the same as cosplay. I have no problem with the clue I just think they way you presented the clue was retarded.

>> No.5214998
File: 348 KB, 636x479, kumajess02.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5214998

Jessica is definitley shifty, but she's not clever enough to be the mastermind.

I was rereading Legend the other day, and it never struck me how odd Kanon's introduction was. From Battler's perspective, sure he was was stoic and unfriendly, but it looked like Jessica was trying to put words in his mouth, to stop him from saying something he shouldn't have. He replied with '...' when Battler said his name, perhaps because he heard stories about him before, or some shit like that? It doesn't look like sweet ole Jessica is just being nice to the guy she likes, but it's something more than that, in my shitty opinion.

>> No.5215002
File: 354 KB, 624x3094, 1263946913444.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215002

Battler clearly says that the person in front of him look exactly like the Beatrice of the portrait.
Jessica is just behind him during that scene.
Explain this with your knox ONLY JESSICA COULD DISGUISE HERSELF thing.

>> No.5215013

>>5215002
Why does the VN's opening still depict that scene the best? It looks far more sinister, and eerie.

>> No.5215016

>>5214985
I misused the word, sorry.

>> No.5215032

>>5215013
It's all in Maria's expression.

>> No.5215050

>>5215002
Funny thing is we can't be really relying on that "looks like the portrait" thing, because the woman in the portrait was described as not looking Japanese at all earlier:
>However, the woman in the portrait had beautiful blonde hair and didn't look Japanese at all.

Let's say it was dark and he can't see her very well.
Or maybe the b0mb goes off a little earlier than 24:00 and it was already game over with all magic possible.

>> No.5215054
File: 444 KB, 600x1000, Jessica's window.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215054

>> No.5215055
File: 150 KB, 750x1088, 23.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215055

See this scene (EP2)

Beatrice made George and Shanon be lovers

>> No.5215069
File: 27 KB, 432x484, Sadcats.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215069

The culprit will end up being shkanontrice.
I wish it was kyrie though.

>> No.5215076

>>5215050
He was only a few meters away from her.
And the game ends at midnight, you can't say OH THE BOMB EXPLODED EARLIER SO IT DOESN'T COUNT, it's stupid.

And he only said that Beatrice looked like a natural blond, which is obviously something you won't find on a Japanese, a wig can take care of this.

>> No.5215082
File: 57 KB, 640x960, george.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215082

>>5215054
Where in the world all this blood on him came from? His stomach wasn't ripped like in the magic scene, he has a clear head wound. Therefore, it's not his blood.

>> No.5215087
File: 17 KB, 284x298, locked_room.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215087

>Everyone died in the boat to Rokkenjima
>The island in reality is purgatory
>My face

>> No.5215089

>>5215082
George = Ronove. He killed Jessica and got in a duel with "Gaap" later and died.

>> No.5215091

>>5215087
S E A C A T S

>> No.5215100

Have any of you come across the volcanic gas theory? I wouldn't put it past Ryu to turn a red mackerel in Higurashi into a key factor in Umineko. If anyone is interested I can dump the whole theory here.

>> No.5215104

>>5215082
I remember tripuser mentioned that it's probably Jessica's blood. His/her reasoning on that made a lot of sense.

Another thing is, that even if you're shot in the head, the body should fall backwards, so that blood could not have come from that would.

>> No.5215107

>>5215104
* a tripuser

>> No.5215108
File: 226 KB, 852x1026, Gohdatrice.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215108

Regarding, only Jessica can be disguised as Beatrice.
No.

>> No.5215110

>>5215076
How do you how many meters he was away from her? It wasn't mentioned as far as I recall.
If the game ends exactly at midnight how you will explain the end of 2nd episode?

>> No.5215127

I should really read the visual novel some day when I have a week of fuck all, then I can have intense discussions. The anime was good and all, but it's too shallow for much speculation to be made, really.

>> No.5215129

>>5215110
Midnight = explosion or whatever.
After that, the flames slowly "ate" everyone.

And Battler, Jessica and George were close to Natsuhi's corpse that was next to the portrait.
And Beatrice is stated to appear next to the portrait as well.

>> No.5215130
File: 270 KB, 640x480, negligence.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215130

>>5215100
I'm familiar with the theory.

Personally I like "construction explosives theory". Where Krauss and Kinzo had to use explosives to create the foundation for their construction projects. It's not unusual to use explosives to for construction on a volcanic island especially if you were planning to make a resort.

>> No.5215133

>>5215100
I think it really doesn't matter whether it's a bomb, volcano or gas/landslide. The point is they all die, corpses missing/unidentifiable, terrain changes and the whole thing named 'accident'.

>> No.5215138
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5215138

>>5215127
>The anime was good

>> No.5215143

>>5215108
It's neither an evidence, nor a clue.

>> No.5215150
File: 146 KB, 200x470, shkanon_ib4f.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215150

Sadly I have come to accept our new Shkanon overloards. Pic is 50% Kanon and Shannon overlay.

>> No.5215156
File: 35 KB, 467x528, 1272717256143.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215156

>>5215127
>The anime was good

>> No.5215157

>>5215143
Well someone other than Jessica has to dress like Beatrice for the end of episode 1 to work.
So it's enough of a clue I guess.

>> No.5215166

>>5215143
It is a clue, and it's foreshadowing.
Just like the fake deaths thing was hinted indirectly by Eva in Episode 3.

>> No.5215171
File: 32 KB, 300x400, 1272279207843.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215171

Everyone is a mastermind. Someone started the whole Beatrice thing, and then everyone tried to use it to their advantage in one way or another, oblivious that everyone else did too at one point or another and there isn't a fixed culprit.

>> No.5215177
File: 420 KB, 899x476, 1274607915135_ib4f.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215177

>>5215171

>> No.5215180
File: 310 KB, 639x479, disguise.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215180

>>5215143
It counts as a hint at least.

It's just whoever dresses up as Beatrice, goes one step further with makeup and a different outfit.

>> No.5215197

>>5215166
At least for real mystery it shouldn't be a good clue, not sure about Umineko though. She's also said that Maria may have been bribed. Does it makes it foreshadowing for Maria accomplice?
>fake deaths
Too bad they confirmed in red.

>> No.5215214

>>5215166
>>5215197
Regarding the fake deaths, yes they`re dead.
Eva suspects that the first twilight in episode 3 was faked, she`s wrong but it foreshadowed the possibility of the first twilights originally being a set up.
Which is then proven true in episode 5, and 6.

>> No.5215229
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5215229

>>5215177
I'm not saying they did it together. Everyone thought Beatrice did exist, and killed one or two times hoping they won't get caught in the midst of all the murders. Turns out, everyone thought like that so there's no Beatrice BUT everyone killed people thinking they could just get away with it because there was a Beatrice.

>> No.5215240
File: 80 KB, 913x474, hittheshowers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215240

>>5213763

>> No.5215257

>>5215229
Problem is, the murders are set up in an occult way with all that circles, stakes, locked rooms and letters with seals, that can be made only by ring of the head.

>> No.5215289

>>5215257
Problem is we don't have any reds saying the letters even exist and Battler never got a good look at any of them.

>> No.5215311

>>5215289
We really can't rely on the red truth for everything. It's like the problem with the rose garden shed key: No red truth exists stating if there is a duplicate or not.

But it's been repeated both in the novel and in TIPS that only one exists. Some things you just have to go with based on what info is provided in white text.

>> No.5215321

>>5213737
There is no culprit. The Ushiromiya family is a secret suicide sect living their last two days in vivid hallucinations after taking a lethal dose of some unknown freakish drug.

>> No.5215350

>>5215289
He sees them many times and he was able to take a good look at it in the end of 2nd ep.

>> No.5215357

>>5215240
I'd hit the showers with the siestas, if you catch my drift.

>> No.5215391

>>5215357

No, you'd just go with 410.

>> No.5215421

>>5215138
>>5215156
I really enjoyed the anime. I can't help it.

>> No.5215442
File: 17 KB, 408x474, 1273119842971.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215442

>>5215391
True, but the more the merrier.

>> No.5215464

So does Rosa have a split personality or is there another explanation for why Maria is focused on the occult?

>> No.5215485
File: 196 KB, 627x352, 1260344453713.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215485

Ever notice that Maria looks more like Eva than Rosa?

It's because Eva-Beato used her magic to disguise herself as a man and impregnated Rosa.

This is why Maria is so attuned to magic and the occult.

>> No.5215596

>>5215464
For Rosa's case, it's just the emotional abuse from Kinzo and older siblings has taken it's toll on her. It's something Beatrice and Battler pointed out in Episode 2...people usually get these things from somewhere.

Rosa might not have a split personality, but she's reflecting everything that's been thrown on her during her childhood, unto Maria. Just like Rosa looks into other men for 'love', Maria looks into magic to fix her situation and pacify her loneliness.

>> No.5215681

>>5215485
ITT: Faggots

>> No.5215693

faggots killed umineko

>> No.5215711

>>5215485

Very revealing dress.

>> No.5215734

>>5215711
fucking DEEN, portraying pure Eva in that way

>> No.5215794
File: 12 KB, 200x200, 1274405407622.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5215794

Haven't played EP6 yet.

But my current theories are:

-Kyrie and/or Rudolf

>>5215734

>Eva
>pure

>> No.5215913

>>5215711
60 year old tits.

>> No.5216672

>>5215596
shes still a cunt

>> No.5216682

>>5215794
Unless Rudolf featured heavily in EP7, I can't see how he can not be the mastermind.

>> No.5216699

Everybody part took in the crime, except Beato. It's Murder on the Rokkenjima Express, bitches.

>> No.5216710

>>5216699

Also, Beato has to be the Detective. Nobody else smokes a pipe. Pipe = Detective.

>> No.5216717

>>5216699
Sorry, but it's obvious that it's meant to be 'Ten Little Niggers', which is why UN OWEN = Beato.

>> No.5216722

>>5216710

So what's in the pipe?

>> No.5216728

>>5216722
We're in the pipe.

Five by five.

>> No.5216735

>>5216722

Momoyama

>> No.5216737

Kyrie and/or Rudolf

>> No.5217410

Rudolf. Definitely.

>> No.5217757
File: 37 KB, 252x350, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5217757

I also think Kyrie,

primarily because of her phone conversation with battler in ep 4. Why else would the master of logic tell battler to believe in magic?

>>
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