/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

>Diplomats and defense language training provides some interesting data, although it covers only a limited selection of major national languages:

> The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the US Department of State has compiled approximate learning expectations for a number of languages. Of the 63 languages analyzed, the five most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading (for native English speakers who already know other languages), requiring 88 weeks, are: "Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean". The Foreign Service Institute considers Japanese to be the most difficult of this group.[2]


Well fuck this shit, ain't gonna pick jap after all

[Anonymous No.]

>too hard

[Anonymous No.]

Nothing deters a NEET.

[Anonymous No.]

Well, sucks to be native English speaker.

[Anonymous No.]

I still don't really get that. I'm having a much easier time with Japanese than I did with Spanish. Sure, motivation and exposing myself to the language a lot play a part in that, but I think there are also a lot of things about the language itself that make it pretty easy.

I wonder if it's just the timesink of kanji that boosts the required learning time.

[Anonymous No.]

Asian languages are hard to learn?

I am astonished

[Anonymous No.]

>five most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading

>proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading

>proficiency in speaking and reading

English is one of them

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155661
Really? I always take it for granted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155661
>for native English speakers

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155658
well obviously it's the immersion.

i tried spanish too back in high school but shit didn't work out that well because i hated spanish speaking people and did not like the culture

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155642
>88 weeks

That doesn't sound long.

[Anonymous No.]

English is "easy" ("EASY") for non-native speakers because lots of yankee shit gets aired in the media and stuff like that not to mention about games.

The same could be said for those who watch anime all the time and immerse themselves in /jp/ culture. Too bad they can'twrite or speak to save their lives.

[Anonymous No.]

English is easy if you are a native speaker of a harder language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155642
So people have no trouble with Greek?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155684
Eh, not really.

Germans: really bad at english because everything gets dubbed there and they live in their own german society with almost no english exposure

swedes: pretty good at english and their language is piss easy, or so I've read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155661
there's quite a few greeks words in most european languages so it probably isn't that hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155685
there's quite a few greek words in most european languages so it probably isn't that hard.

[MolesterJim No.]

>>5155692
Knowing a few words is not even close to grammar and syntax irregular compared to most languages in the world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155689
This is unrelated. I'm talking about those who actually decide to learn the language.

[MolesterJim No.]

>>5155695
UNDERSTANDING grammar and syntax, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155642
>The Foreign Service Institute considers Japanese to be the most difficult of this group.[2]

haha what the fuck am i reading dfude jap is so far one of the easiest i've learned as a native english speaker (i know only english). i learn new words everyday like "ippanteki" or "pasokon" the other day and if a new word comes up i just do a search and learn the new word

this site is very good:
http://www.kawa.net/works/ajax/romanize/japanese-e.html

[Anonymous No.]

I wonder how Polish ranks there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155698
what? you mean sweden and german ain't learning english?

[Anonymous No.]

Why 88 and not 89?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155689
>Germans: really bad at english because everything gets dubbed there and they live in their own german society with almost no english exposure
And what exactly would you be basing this on? You don't seem to be german at least.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155695
This. And Greek is still relatively easy. Try Latin or ancient Greek to see the real difference with English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lru4dJ4J6g

[MolesterJim No.]

>>5155701
Key word may be 'proficiency'.

[MolesterJim No.]

>>5155714
I have tried both.
I had to study both.
Latin is still much easier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155719
Έλα ρε θεωρητική!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155701
>>5155701
Obvious troll is obvious.

[Anonymous No.]

In case you're wondering, OP pic doesn't include all the kanji.

[MolesterJim No.]

>>5155728
Βασικά, Τεχνολογική . Αλλά όλη υποφέραμε μέχρι τη Β'.
Λατινικά έμαθα για να βοηθώ τη μαλακισμένη φίλη μου.
Ηθελε να μπει και Νομική η τσουράπω. Εβγαλα καλυτερο Βαθμό για νομική Αθήνας απο το συντελεστή της Τεχνολογικής.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155745
HOLY SHIT HE'S SPEAKING IN TONGUES

STONE HIM

[MolesterJim No.]

>>5155756
Savages, all of you

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155701
Chinese is much harder than Japanese.

For speaking, you've got those intonations. And then you've got 10x more moonrunes to memorize.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155745
How's that debt treating you? Ready to start paying your taxes like good little euroslaves now?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155642

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155745
Πφφφτ.
>>5155756
Silence, heathen who uses the same word as both a noun and a verb, he honor your inferior language for speaking it.

[MolesterJim No.]

>>5155771
This situation just reinforces my opinion of 'living alone for the rest of my life and ignoring my family' plan.
For fuck's sake, they ministry had a running bill of 0.5 mil Euros for CURTAINS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155701 as a native english speaker
Sure thing bro

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155771
Yeah, seeing all the butthurt about it in the News feels good man.

[Anonymous No.]

Learn Esperanto.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155684
Say that to me again after you've met Japanese middle-schoolers I attempt to teach English to.

"UIRRU YU GOU-UU TUUU ZA SUTOAA AFUTAA SUKUURU?"

[Anonymous No.]

What, one and a half year to learn it? Fuck that, I can't keep myself motivated to do something for more than a week or so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155816
Esperanto is shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156007
which is infinitely more than 99% of all native speakers of english will ever be able to say in japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

The FSI and DLI know more about languages and how to teach them than you fucks ever will.

>>5155668

DLI intensive study courses are no joke. The Russian course, which is only a level III language was six months of six hours of classroom instruction daily and three to five hours of homework.
Most high school or college students think they're working hard if they flip through kanji flash cards for an hour.

[Anonymous No.]

Japanese itself isn't hard, it's kanji that is bullshit.
It's like I'm really learning some ancient script from Babylon !

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155719
> I have tried both.
> I had to study both.
> Latin is still much easier.
Let me guess... you're amerikan, and you had to read (!) Shakespeare?

[random greek anon No.]

Kanji may be hard, but can be studied systematically and there is some sense behind them, what with the radicals and stuff. It still needs a metric fuckton of determination, but it's doable. Higher level grammar though, is like kicking yourself in the nut with a spiked boot. I mean, e.g., why have ~180 different expressions, that mean just about the same thing in groups of 4-5, and a REALLY low probability of actually using the majority of them?

[ニューゼロ !!srLS1brKexV No.]

>>5155689
Then you obviously do not know the real cause of "germans are bad at english". English exposure is here at about every place you can find.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156118
Yeah, Japanese grammar makes no sense at all. I think the way to approach Japanese is to memorize phrases instead of trying to make up new phrases.

[random greek anon No.]

>>5156125
Yes, and then lose all hope of actually being able to read/decipher a proper japanese text.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156136
Yeah, it's pretty much hopeless unless you have a Japanese person to ask.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156060
I'd rather do 3 hours of REAL homework than flip through flash-cards for an hour. Most boring method of studying ever devised.

[Anonymous No.]

Does that mean I have been able to learn the most difficult language ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156230
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155772
えーマジレベル0？
レベル0が許されるのは小学生までだよねー
キャハハハ

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155745
>>5155728
Holy shit i can't believe i still remember how to read Greek.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156301
Why did you even learn to in the first place?

[Anonymous No.]

English/Mandarin/Japanese

I'm God-tier

[Anonymous No.]

eh learning Japanese's not so bad, only took me 10 years

[Anonymous No.]

>Cantonese, Mandarin,
Haha I know both of this.
Time to learn Japanese to complete the holy trinity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156369
You only need to know one language to complete the holy trinity, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

Гол да го барате ве манафи. Майка ви да еба на всичките.

[Anonymous No.]

read heisig.

[Anonymous No.]

Italianfag here, had teachers fluent in both Latin and ancient Greek.
Latin is Italian, and Greek is not that hard too.
Feels good man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156402

Не, ти.

[Anonymous No.]

It's amazing how people make such a big deal of the writing system compared to the rest of the language.

Like, recognising a couple thousand squiggles takes no time compared to getting a vocabulary of 20,000+.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5157986
most of the necessary vocabulary can be found at anime & games(especially if you are learning jp to read vg/manga)
that's the way i learned english

[Anonymous No.]

>Japanese is more difficult than Cantonese or Mandarin

[Anonymous No.]

For me kanji are a tad easy to be honest because it gets easier the further you delve in. But high level grammar and vocabulary? That's a real motherfucker right there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5158061
to an english speaking person at least

[Anonymous No.]

how hard is it for a Tamil speaker/writer to pick Japanese up?

ib4 racist jokes please. i get enough from people for being indian and an otaku.

i know japan pretty much hates us non-european immigrants, legal or illegal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5158325
>japan pretty much hates us non-japanese, legal or illegal.

fix'd

[Anonymous No.]

>>5158339
lawl... it's that bad there?? i thought white people got better treatment.

but what about the rich/famous or the corporate suits? i mean they get red carpets regardless of race, color or gender. how does that work in japan? obviously they love the american entertainment industry with the african-american and hispanic artists..

sorry if i offend anyone :(

[Anonymous No.]

I learned Spanish pretty easily, but then I have the advantage of seeing and hearing it everywhere, living in San Antonio.

I swear, grocery products are now more prominently marked in Spanish than English here, it gets annoying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5156262

[Anonymous No.]

i dunno, japanese seems to click with me better than other languages. i was scared off by the kanji in high school so i took french. LE FUCKING HARD! verb conjugation is retarded and everything is spelled with ten extra letters you don't pronounce. i tried hard for three years and barely squeaked by.

japanese is a relatively simple and efficient language. somehow it all makes more sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5158325
Real men speak Urdu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5158455

you mean punjabi

[Anonymous No.]

>>5158483
>german

[Anonymous No.]

Wait, surely you learn Japanese because... you want to know Japanese. You don't pick any random language for a second?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155658
I think it's the kanji. With other languages like Spanish or German, you don't have to remember a completely different writing system, just learn some new characters here and there. Sure, you have to remember how to actually pronounce them, but there are a lot of easier methods to help you with that than trying so remember 2000 (seemingly) meaning less symbols.
This is the reason why people recommend that you tackle Kanji early on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5159642
Someone should really at Elementary Japanese to the textbook list there. It's pretty thorough on grammar, and it has about 320 kanji. That's pretty good, considering you need about 1000 to get buy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5159728
to get by* I meant.
Jesus, I can't even speak English; how am I learning this language again?

[Anonymous No.]

holy fuck modern greek looks weird from an ancient greek background. 80% of the vocabulary, none of the grammar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5155770
Except the fact that Chinese writing makes more sense, and many characters have only one reading.
Memorizing more characters isn't really that bad... I mean after the first couple thousand who cares.

I will agree that in my experience Chinese sometimes has a billion different character combinations to say the same think.
I remember when I was playing a Chinese MMO for the first time people would use like 20 different ways of saying 'tank' or 'healer'.

as for the 88 weeks, that is 88 weeks under their courses. Which is more work per day than a full time job by far when you add in the homework hours.

[Anonymous No.]

People should learn russia

[Anonymous No.]

>>5163181
silly boy!

Russia learns You.