/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Let's make an attempt to solve this whole multiple Battler nonsense, /jp/.

Things we know:

There WERE two Battlers. Our Battler, and one born from Ushiromiya Asumu. Asumu's Battler was given to Natsuhi, and then this baby allegedly died. Then, allegedly, a year later, Natsuhi gave birth to Jessica.

Here's where things get dicey. Battler's given age is 18. That's absolutely fine, but according to Natsuhi, there was a year gap inbetween her losing the adopted child(which we are told was Asumu's Battler) and giving birth to Jessica.
Jessica's given age is ALSO 18. The issue arises in that they both are 18, but there should be supposedly a year between them, if Natsuhi's memory is to be believed.
Furthermore, one has to assume that because Jessica came from Natsuhi's womb, there would be a gap nearly a year long.

This leaves us with three conclusions.

Either Battler's age is false, Jessica's age is false or Natsuhi's memory is. Given that there really would be no incentive for anyone to cover up Battler's age from himself, along with that of Jessica's and that the ability to cover up someone's age would be rather hard, I'd put a big DUBIOUS check on Natsuhi's account of things.

So, one thing that should be focused on in episode 7 is Battler and Asumu. As things stand, we see a clear paradox.

Granted, one could argue that Battler is 18.8 and Jessica is 18.0 at the start of the series, but I'd be less inclined to believe that, mostly because of the time gap Natsuhi mentions.... to Gaap.

And with Juuza. Well, Juuza could be Battler, could not be, honestly. The only thing we know is that he's Battler's age and he laughs like him.

So, /jp/, let's try to logically put together one mystery of Umineko. Remember, it's so potent that it erased Battler from reality for a spill!

[Anonymous No.]

There's nothing more to solve, Ryukishi used Episode 4 volume 1 tankoubon omakes to adimit that Amakuza is Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086209
I think the biggest issue with this picture is rudolf and kyrie's bedsheets.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086209
Not quite the issue I'm talking about. Not quite not the issue I'm talking about either.

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086219
>>5086209
Oh wait, it's already translated, my bad.

But still...

[GORDON FREEMAN !!L41oD04xiQF No.]

>>5086219
Like you wouldn't buy them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086219

You will never be ablo to buy real ones ;-;

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086209
I still don't know what's going on even after it's translated

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086209
I think that means we can safely say Juuza = Battler was jossed by that picture.
Or it could be some kinda reverse trolling...

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086235
I think it's pretty clear.

Juuza wants to give ange a present by dressing up as battler and giving him those bedsheets, but then he realized how terrible that idea is.

>>5086234
...what the fuck

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086247
>giving her

whoops

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086234
> 34
> pic says 34
DAMMIT LAMBDA

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086247
Who's the guy lying on the ground?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086256
I'm pretty sure she's a guy, after all she has huge meat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086260
Okonogi. He tried to dress up as Battler and failed terribly.

[Anonymous No.]

You do know that the exchange babies thing is only a theory, one that doesn't have any hints whatsoever.
The Battler of Rokkenjima in 1986 is the true son of Asumu, nothing prove otherwise, this is what make the most sense as well.

The problem come from the red text of Beatrice at the end of episode 4.
Of course it was seemingly resolved by Ange, but don't you guys think such a huge trap was resolved a bit too easily?
And it's not like it was confirmed.

This red text was about meta-Battler, not the Battler from 1986, and really it was never proven that meta-Battler really is the 1986 Battler.
After all we know that meta-Beatrice and Beatrice of 1986 have a completely different appearance, same for Genji or Kumasawa.
Why not Battler?

My theory is that meta-Battler symbolize someone who isn't the real Battler in the same way as Beatrice symbolize someone/thing on the island.
This person is the lost son/daughter/whatever of Kyrie and Rudolf, and for some reason this person idealize Battler so much as he appears like him in the meta-world.

That's why meta-Battler was almost erased, he almost realized that he was only a "fake", but Ange came to the rescue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086260
Some fool who defamed Battler Onii-sama.

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086260
him? Well, I can't tell either. it could be "someone" who defamated battler.

[Erika No.]

>>5086235

The omakes are about episode 4 characters cosplaying Ange's dead family. Okonogi tries to cosplay Battler but she kills him, than Amakuza does the same and, when he discovers what happened to Onkonogi, he thinks "she'll kill me too..."

...geez, I'm such a detective!

[Anonymous No.]

Has Amakusa ever died?

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086268
Oh, you're right.

Yeah, he has the ponytail.

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086277
You're a slut that's what you are.

>>5086281
He hasn't gotten killed yet so he's not dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086286
He wouldn't die even if you killed him

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086270
Going for a "Prototype" kinda twist?

I can see the logic behind it, but it kinda tears down the red text. He can be Ushiromiya Battler but not born from Asumu? Somehow, I doubt that. In addition, there's tons and tons of evidence to show that Battler may not be Asumu's son. You can bend any red text ever, I suppose, but in terms of the story, there's been much more to support Battler having a dubious parentage.

[Erika No.]

>>5086281


Everyone will die someday, so we can assume that he died in all the previous games, even if it's not related to the ushiromiya's situation.

Being able to notice that...I'm a wonderful detective!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086282
Oh, that whole big thing is the hair...
I thought it was those "mysterious figures" who always shows up in black

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086270
That, um... would be really really weird, because it would completely ruin the whole promise-to-Beatrice thing.

Also if you're going to go that far, then you might as well say that meta-Ange may not be Ange either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086286
>Erika
>slut
Sorry ack, not even you can say that about Erika.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086303
>>In addition, there's tons and tons of evidence to show that Battler may not be Asumu's son
Where?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086270
That kinda defeats the whole point of Battler and Beatrice's relationship.

Like, really. And it makes Beato EVEN MORE of a vindictive bitch.

OH HEY BATTLER IM KILLING YOUR WHOLE FAMILY FOR A PROMISE YOU MADE WHEN YOU WERE 12 JK YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY BATTLER BUT IMMA PRETEND YOU ARE.

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086319
Yeah whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086326
Rudolf saying he is going to be killed in episode one while talking to Battler, Kyrie's daughter having red hair, that red text, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086347
I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome she was at the end of ep6.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086315
The "promise" and the "sin" may be different.
Battler of 1986 made a promise to Beatrice.
Meta-Battler has a sin and that's why people die.

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086354
I like her

[Anonymous No.]

RUH ROH GUYS
REMEMBER THIS RED TEXT?
The one Ange uses?
>Battler is not Asumu's son
Well, of course! Battler isn't Asumu's SON.....

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086350
>>Rudolf saying he is going to be killed in episode one while talking to Battler
Doesn't have anything to do with it, he was obviously worried about something else.

>>Kyrie's daughter having red hair
Not a proof either, anime genetic and all and Ange is Rudolf daughter as well.

[Anonymous No.]

Did someone say "Asumu"? Because I think I heard someone saying "Asumu"

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086354
I can't hear you over how dead she is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086373
There's nothing to support your claim at all. I'm at least giving you something. As other people have shown, if Meta-Battler was not the one who made the promise to Beato, it's all useless. That touching scene with the gold truth in episode 5? Destroyed by your theory.

[Erika No.]

>>5086368

I like you too, Nack, here's a heart for you: S2


>>5086350
>Kyrie's daughter having red hair

Here's a question for you:
Eva, Rosa, Krauss and Rudolf are Kinzo's sons and daughters, but they have different hair colors. Explain it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086395
kinzo is a playa

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086389
>>That touching scene with the gold truth in episode 5?
No it doesn't, it actually helps it.
I don't want to play the condescending faggot but I think there is quite a bit that help my claims including the golden text.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086433
How does it help it?
And another thing to strike you down:
>Ange is, ......my little sister
Said in red.

So wait, Asumu can't be Battler's mother because he's a meta projection of someone who aspired to be Battler, but Ange can be his little sister? You're just splitting hairs, at this point.

[Erika No.]

>>5086456

She can be his heart sister, they doesn't need to be blood related, I think....

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086465
So sister in the way black people mean it?
Well, then the only candidate for that would be Maria. And if Maria wants to be Battler we've got bigger problems to worry about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086389
>if Meta-Battler was not the one who made the promise to Beato, it's all useless.

Hmm... That's funny I seem to recall Keichi remembering himself killing Mion/Rena when it was actually the Keichi in a different kakera that did it. I believe that Rika said that the odds of that happening must be rediculously small and that it only happened that one time in the many kakera she traveled to. So even if meta battler never made the promise to Beato in his kakera, it would be possible for him to remember it according to Ryu's previous work.

Fufu

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086456
Meta-Battler, if he is the son/whatever of Ange is Ange big brother, GENETICALLY.
That's how the red text work, sentimentality has no place there.

And it helps it if you think about what the golden text is.
The golden text can only be used by those who understand everything about Beatrice and the mystery of Rokkenjima, yet R07 confirmed in his interview that it could even be used by the pieces on the island.

How could it happen? How can Battler say with CERTITUDE as Kinzo is dead?
Just because he learned the truth? Him learning something doesn't mean he has the proofs, yet the golden text allows him to bypass the proofs, why?
Why can even the pieces use it given the right circumstances? How can people speak in fucking colored text in reality anyways?

If you think about it, it's a huge clue about what the meta-world, or rather the whole game is, and for Battler as well.

I'm not saying it's correct, just that it's a possibility that is stronger than you think.

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>5086377
kyrie > asumu

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086503
>>Meta-Battler, if he is the son/whatever of Ange is Ange big brother, GENETICALLY.
Fucked up my first line, I meant:

If he is the son of Rudolf, it also mean that he is Ange's big brother, genetically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086493
He's still K1. Just in a different universe. You're proclaiming that the Battler in question, the Meta-Battler, is just some dude or chick who aspired to be Battler. There's a difference between the two. In the first example, both K1's are made of 100% K1isness, in the second, Meta-Battler would, according to your theory, be a different person entirely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086503
>if he is the son/whatever of Ange is Ange big brother, GENETICALLY
wat

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086506
My issue is this:
>My theory is that meta-Battler symbolize someone who isn't the real Battler in the same way as Beatrice symbolize someone/thing on the island.

If he's the son of Rudolf, but not the Battler of the island, then do inform me. Who is he? I'm not saying you're completely full of shit, I'm just saying you're not making a whole bunch of sense.

[Anonymous No.]

What's the argument?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086511

New theory, Battler is Ange's son, she just doesn't know it yet

[GORDON FREEMAN !!L41oD04xiQF No.]

>>5086540
The argument right now or what the OP was saying?

As for right now...

We have one dude supporting the traditional logic that baby swapping shenanigans occurred with Asumu and Kyrie, and another dude saying that Battler isn't Battler but rather someone who wanted to be like Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086523
My theory isn't a pleasant one, so bear with me.
Basically I think that the meta-world as a whole is the delusion of only one person who play every roles.

It's basically an extension of the whole witch roleplays.
The one having this delusion is the one who was Beatrice on the island.
And the real identity of this Beatrice is "Battler" son/daughter of Kyrie and Rudolf, though he/she was obviously playing another role in 1986.

It would explain the whole "magic is a gentle lie" theme, explain what the meta-world is and the colored text.
It also explain what are the witches and why they can die if their logic is broken, and why that include Battler as well.

I personally think that the Ange from episode 4 was the true Ange and that she managed to participate into this huge role playing session in some way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086552
INB4 inevitable shadow hearts copy pasta.

[Anonymous No.]

>So, /jp/, let's try to logically put together one mystery of Umineko

Yeah, you failed already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086560
My beef is that there is nothing to point towards ANYONE wanting to be Battler. No clues, no foreshadowing, what you are doing is bending the hell out of a red text and bisecting Battler and Beatrice's relationship, and using that to assert that Meta-Battler is Gohda or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086580
Battler of 1986, during every episodes, is the one who seem to care the most about preserving the dignity of everyone, he doesn't want to think of anyone as the culprit.

Meta-Battler plays a similar role, he plays the role of the protector and his entire arguments are about protecting the memories and dignity of his family.
Since this role had to be created, then Battler was the one who was the most suited.
And Beatrice does hold Battler in high regard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086270
>This red text was about meta-Battler
Right. And that red about him being innocent too. "You were the detective" said to meta-Battler as well. Therefore, the culprit maybe a gameboard Battler. Makes perfect sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086361
Except she talks about sin to gameboard Battler too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086625
Why not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086637
Violation of the love explained in ep6.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086624
That's fine, but who is Meta-Battler on the board?

Unlike with Meta-Beato, while there is clues pointing to Shannon and Kanon being part of her, Battler is only related... oddly enough... to Battler!

Oh, and of course what
>>5086625
says is absolutely correct as well. All that jazz about trust between the author and stuff goes flying out the window, because hey, Meta-Battler was actually George the whole time!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086634
I know that.
But there is a difference between someone stating you have a sin because they are butthurt and stating "sin" in red.
Do you really think that a 12 years old Battler could have done something so big that could be called a "sin" and caused this whole incident?

[Topadafag !c32VzcxdEg No.]

Fuck this, you all know that there is only shit in Ryukishi07's head

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086644
Well said. If Battler is Battler and Meta-Battler is Battler's half brother/sister, then the whole thing falls to pieces. Trust between the author and the reader was hammered into our heads in episode 5 and 6, and this theory certainly doesn't do that.

[Anonymous No.]

Wait...are you guys trying to say that Piece-Battler and Meta-Battler are 2 different entities, and everything said in red to Meta-Battler doesn't apply to Piece?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086654
>was hammered into our heads in episode 5 and 6
Do I need tom post the 'without love, it cannot be seen' image?
It was hammered from minute 0.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086652
Catholicfag here, sin doesn't mean YOU SLAUGHTERED YOUR WHOLE FAMILY MUHUHAHAHAHAHA, it can be as silly as taking a cookie from a cookie jar without asking. And so we can reasonably presume Shota-Battler committed a venial sin, which became a shit-storm because Beato was deeply affected by it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086655
No, one idiot is trying to say that. Everyone else is trying to deny it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086652
It was said later by Beato taht it wasn't a real 'sin', but an action that in the span of 6 years turned sunshines and flowers into shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086645
The various episodes are fictions, my theory states that someone play every roles in the meta-world.
So therefore the games that the people in the meta-world observes are fake as well.

Same for every pieces, they are nothing more than actors in a movie if you can say so.
It's possible that meta-Battler, because he really believes that he is the true Battler replaced the existence of the 1986 Battler with his own when he was a detective.

That's why he had no knowledge of 1986 Battler POV once he abandoned his detective rights.

Basically being the detective means becoming one of the piece in that game, you replace a NPC with a PC basically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086560
Going by your theory, Juuza being Beatrice would make the most sense.

Still think it's a theory that violates every theme of Umineko, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086698
And those themes would be...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086698
>Juuza being Beatrice would make the most sense.
Fund it. Along with Juuza being Battler, so that way Battler broke a promise to himself, causing himself to kill his entire family.

[Anonymous No.]

So how does this theory compare to the Nanjo-is-actually-Nanjo's-granddaughter theory in terms of craziness?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086698
>>Still think it's a theory that violates every theme of Umineko
I don't think it does.

Personally I think it follows every themes.
The entire meta-fiction thing that has been going on from the beginning.
Or the whole true meaning of magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086713
It's up there.
You know what, I'm just going to ask straight out.
Chronotrig, is that you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086734
I'm not some faggot who post in whatever shit boards you think of so no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086693
you are thinking too much...really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086741
Way to talk about the main editor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086717
It's the events on the gameboards that are fictional. The meta world is as real as anything, insofar as anything can be real in a work of fiction to begin with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086754
(Unless, of course, you want to claim that Ryukishi07 is writing non-fiction.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086693
Wait, wait, wait. So you're saying that the whole metaworld is a delusion of the one person, Beatrice on the island, who plays every role in metaworld. Then that person imagines that she's actually Battler and starts a game against herself in the metaworld, right? Perfect theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086754
The events of the meta-world are real.
Just that they are real in the brain of some crazy individual.
And probably that person write about what happen there.
That's probably how Ange managed to act in it, after all Ange has such an amazing and crazy imagination, look at what she did with Maria's diary.

[Phantom Renegade No.]

This whole topic can be reduced to a simple line of thinking.

Stated by Bern: Beatrice, as a witch (in other words, Meta-beato) MAY represent more than one person. If that's the case, what's to say that Meta-Battler doesn't represent more than just Battler (Piece, Detective, 1986, call him whatever you want, the REAL one)?

Is that right?

Simple. KISS philosophy

Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Or Ockham's razor, whatever. Point is, Meta-Battler being Battler makes sense as it is what has been shown so far, nothing to say otherwise

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086767
DID faggotry.
Various personality clashes against each other, each of the important characters in the meta-world represents a strong "emotion" within Beatrice.

So yeah Beatrice is fighting against herself.
But if you look at it carefully, it's not something new in Umineko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086784
So how does Featherinne fit into all this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086784
Not sure if serious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086777
Thank you for being succint.

What he said.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086801
Featherine is someone who hold some power over "Beatrice".
She really exists and she is probably someone who started this whole thing.

Think of it that way, just a quick idea so don't take it too seriously:
Beatrice is sick and has amnesia, she also has DID.
Featherine is a doctor or something close and decide to influence Beatrice into creating this whole game as a form of therapy.
She forces Beatrice into clashing with her other personalities to become "one" once again.

Bern and Lambda could have been created under Featherine influence, their roles being to make sure the game roll, probably she fed Beatrice with lots of detective story and finished with the novel "Higurashi", Beatrice created Bern and Lambda using this as reference.

Or something like this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086777
>>5086837
R07 obviously doesn't want to keep things simple.
When you read a novel, you have to try looking at what the writer is trying to tell you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086855
>what the writer is trying to tell you
About the dangers of psychiatric deviations?

[Phantom Renegade No.]

>>5086855
What if Ryu is all "Damn, I only wanted to tell a Halloween story"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5086855
That he cannot write seriously for shit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5087016
It's not a question of what he "can" do, it's what he "tries" to do, not the same thing.

Personally I think that this theory is stronger that you guys give credits for, and unlike what some of you said previously, it follows the themes very well.
There is a reason why R07 hammered the whole meta-fiction thing so much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5087049
We know that, you never shut the fuck up about.
The issue is that you ignore 99% of the Visual Novel, bend red text and throw out characterization for your theory's sake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5087049
Because he cannot make the story and themes interesting with teh actual events?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5087079
What do I ignore or bend?
Seriously, tell me.