/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

JLPT 4 - can converse with babies
JLPT 3 - top 1 percentile of gaijin who attempt to learn Japanese. can read children's books.
JLPT 2 - basic fluency. can read newspapers.
JLPT 1 - on par with average Japanese person.

Is this right?

[Anonymous No.]

JLPT 6 - you

[anon of bangkok No.]

>jlpt 2
>can read newspapers

haha.. no

[Shikieiki !!KvMSlptKvlj No.]

so according to this newspapers are on the same level as children books but with some new words?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040164
違う

>>5040179
With about 800 new kanji, yes. Jouyou is around 1000.

[Anonymous No.]

retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040179

Have you ever read The Sun?

[Anonymous No.]

Haha, no.

JLPT 4 - Can pick up a couple of words when watching anime, like "watashi", "kore" etc. Things everyone learned from watching anime.
JLPT 3 - Can pick up a couple more words
JLPT 2 - Can string together a sentence that makes no sense grammar-wise
JLPT 1 - Can string together a couple of sentences decently (TOIRE WA DOKO DESU KAR?, KORE WO KUDASAI), but can't hold a conversation other than "what did you have for breakfast this morning"

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040191

err, 2000. nevermind.

But you only need a 6th grade education in America to read a common newspaper. I figured it was the same for Japan.

[Shikieiki !!KvMSlptKvlj No.]

>>5040197
No?

[Anonymous No.]

There are 5 levels now, update your "chart" please.

[Anonymous No.]

I am level 6

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040206
Probably furigana.

[Anonymous No.]

Level 4

The examinee should have mastered the
elements of grammar, about 100 Kanji and 800
words, and have the ability to engage in simple
conversation and to read and write short, simple
sentences. This level is normally reached after
studying Japanese for about 150 hours and
finishing the first half of an elementary course.


Level 3

The examinee should have mastered basic
grammar, about 300 Kanji and 1,500 words, and
have the ability to take part in everyday
conversation and to read and write simple
sentences. This level is normally reached after
studying Japanese for about 300 hours and
finishing an elementary course.

[Anonymous No.]

Level 2

The examinee should have mastered grammar at
relatively high level, about 1,000 Kanji and 6,000
words, and have the ability to converse, read and
write about matters of a general nature. This level
is normally reached after studying Japanese for
about 600 hours and finishing an intermediate
course.

Level 1

The examinee should have mastered grammar at
high level, about 2,000 Kanji and 10,000 words,
and have an integrated command of the language
sufficient for living in Japanese society and
providing a useful base for study at a Japanese
university. This level is normally reached after
studying Japanese for about 900 hours.

[Anonymous No.]

4 = 80 kanji from 1st grade elementary school
3 = ~200 kanji from 2nd grade elementary school
2 = ~1000 kanji (kyoiku kanji) through6th grade elementary school
1 = ~2000 daily use kanji (jouyou kanji) through high school

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040252
>level two
>mastered grammar
>1000 kanji
>6000 words
>less than 30 days
What the fuck? How are you supposed to learn that much in a month? Am I missing something here?

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.youtube.com/user/bumnumba1

NamaSensei is the only study tool you need.

Fuck everything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040268

600 hours of pure studying.

Plus, these tests are cumulative. The 1000 kanji include the 300 from JLPT 3, which include the 100 from JLPT 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040268
>600 hours
>less than 30 days
You're studying 20 hours a day?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040268
Not all at once, you mouthbreather. It's 600 hours, spread over the course of over a year or more, in class or something equivalent of that.

[Shikieiki !!KvMSlptKvlj No.]

so it's
Level 4 - Shit tier
Level 3 - Low tier
Level 2 - Mid tier
Level 1 - Baka Gaijin tier
?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040308

Level 0 = Best tier!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040221

So you speak Korean?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040290
I agree.
Also:
Drink beer!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040302
Funny as I'm actually mouthbreathing now. Being sick sucks.

[Anonymous No.]

JLPT1 is where you're basically functional for the most part but you're basically the Japanese speaking equivalent of the mexican with a heavy accent-mein.

[Shouichi D No.]

I have no measurement of how many "words" i know.

Do you have to take the JLPT in succession or can you study study study and just take level 2 or 1?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040339

The latter, thankfully.

[Shouichi D No.]

>>5040344
Cool. I think I might just do that then.

>>5040290
Fuck this guy. He was funny for a few minutes but it's just vulgar and ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040342
Did you just make that?

[Anonymous No.]

there is a Kanji test too if you're really insane.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040342

Saten would never ridicule somebody else for lack of ability. She is a pleasant girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040358
>it's just vulgar and ridiculous.

It helps you remember.

[Shouichi D No.]

>>5040384
I do like his hopeless dickhole guitar lessons though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040381

Kanji kentei

Level 1

* Tests the ability to read and write approximately 6000 kanji, with their on readings and kun readings
* Requires the ability to use the kanji in sentences and to choose the most appropriate kanji for a given context
* Tests special or unusual kanji readings
* Tests ateji
* Tests knowledge of synonyms and antonyms
* Tests ability to differentiate between homonyms
* Tests special compound words
* Tests complex radicals
* Tests kanji unique to the Japanese language
* Tests classical Japanese proverbs and idiomatic expressions
* Tests place and country names
* Tests the ability to recognize the relationship between modern and ancient or old character forms

[Shouichi D No.]

>>5040404
Why the FUCK would anyone subject themselves to this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040419
To be able to prove their abilty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040404

>level 1 is so difficult that fewer than two thousand people take it each time it is offered, and fewer than 15% of those examinees pass

And those numbers are for native speakers.

[Shouichi D No.]

>>5040425
No thank you sir.... I will pass on those buddhist scripture kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040404
>>5040419
This test is mostly for Japanese people, not gaijins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040431

How the hell else are you going to get your heart sutra on? That shit isn't just going to chant itself, you know.

[Shouichi D No.]

>>5040441
The priests can handle that. I'll just enjoy my amazake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040387

If there was a version of level upper that made you learn Kanji, she'd probably use that too.

Hell, I would as well.

[Anonymous No.]

Quick question: Do you guys actually bother to learn how to hand write the more difficult kanji?

Is it even really necessary in the modern age?

[Shouichi D No.]

>>5040492
I slack off on actually writing kanji, but I think it's a good idea to write out everything you learn because it sucks being in a situation where you want to recall a kanji, and you know it when you see it, but you can't reproduce it from your head.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040492
I always forget the stroke order, so I write them the way I want. Doesn't matter to me since I learned Japanese only to read stuff. But sometimes I think it would be better if I learned the writing more seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040492
That depends on how you want to learn it. It takes MUCH longer if you're going to write out the kanji, but it definitely helps you remember it. I don't know if the same result could just be gotten through extreme amounts of repetition, but it's possible. Another option is to use Heisig's method, it works fairly well, but not as well as writing it in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040492

Fuck "proper stroke order." Otherwise yes, writing in general tends to help me remember kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>JLPT 1 - on par with average Japanese person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040435
I'm pretty sure most Japanese would not pass this test either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040537
Hence the high failure rate.

[Shikieiki !!KvMSlptKvlj No.]

I've always figured the stroke order was made as to avoid smearing ink while writing, did I figure right or was it just something some frustrated guy came up with?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040404

>>Tests the ability to recognize the relationship between modern and ancient or old character forms

Not even natives can't read the kanji in Touhou games, amirite?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040542
It has to do more with the "flow" of the brush, if I remember correctly.

[Shouichi D No.]

>>5040542
I think it has a lot more to do with the caligraphy aspect of writing kanji than it has to do with writing them on paper or something, I can't differentiate the same kanji easily despite me not following any stroke order rules other than writing left > right and up > down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040542
>>5040554
On this note, why does everyone say stroke order is important? Pretty much any book/method I came across emphasized how you NEED to learn it (although if I remember correctly, Kanjidicks didn't). Why the hell do people find the order of writing important? I've always written my a differently from the way everyone else does and I only ever got shit for that in kindergarten.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040575
Because it tends to look off if you don't write it exactly the same way everyone else has been writing it for god knows how long.

It's just nitpicking in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040569
>>5040542
No, it actually has more to do with the speed of writing. Writing with "proper" stroke order usually reduces unnecessary hand/brush movements to minimum, hence you write faster.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040575
>>5040631
>>5040679

I thought it was because people (natives) who write very quickly sometimes end up with kanjiwhich look nothing like they're supposed to, but if you're familiar with the stroke order you will recognize it more easily.
That's what I thought anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

moonspeak newfag here. i'm trying to shortcut my way to learning japanese by skipping kanji altogether. my real goal is just to be able to watch shows without subtitles and possibly converse if necessary.

i figured i can always learn the kanji later which should be easier since i will already have a decent vocabulary going, right?

or am i just making things difficult for myself later?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042224
That's like saying you're going go through your entire school career doing everything but math, and you'll just do 12 years worth of math all at the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042224
You'd better learn the fucking Kanji. What if you're watching something and there's something written on the screen. Oh wait, you have no idea what's going on because you CAN'T READ. That's like learning English without the alphabet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042224
I haven't read this thread, just saw it just now as it got bumped.

Well as an anon who's studied japanese for only a few years but has many year's experience with spoken japanese through animu I'd tell you that knowing only spoken japanese will limit you, but it's not as if you'd be worse off than not knowing any jap at all.

I'm studying kanji at the present and I am pretty sure it's a lot easier for someone like me than for someone who's a complete newfag. With a good grasp of how the language works and how the sentences sound, learning kanji should be easier. I wouldn't put it off entirely though.

Start where you feel the most comfortable and go from there, I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm taking my JLPT1 in December and pretty confident about it, but there's no way I'm on par with a typical native speaker. I still sound like some stupid foreigner with a bad accent and funny phrasing when I talk, and I still occasionally find kanji I don't know when I read VNs, though newspapers restrict themselves to the Jouyou. Basically, anything less JLPT2 is useless, and JLPT2 itself is still pretty basic stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042291>>5042275

good point. why does it have to be so damn complicated, though?!?

so i guess my next question is, what's your favorite resource for learning it? no time/money right now for proper classes so i'm learning on my own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5040248
>>5040252
one thing to take into account is that those 'ratings' are really meant for people who study in general.
ex. if you study Japanese grammar through textbooks and other resources, by the time you hit level 1 or 2 you should be able to converse and live in Japanese.
However, most people study for the test directly, which means that your learn some obscure grammar, words, etc that are basically only on the test, meaning that the level 1 isn't very impressive after all because it is just a skill you have refined.

Compare it to the people who get perfect (or near perfect) scores on the SAT. Many of them have gone to classes, taken the test previously, and prepped anxiously for the test. I only knew a handful of people that honestly never prepared specifically for the test and scored above the 98th percentile. Of the people who prepared specifically for the test (I lived in CA, full of rich kids) many people you would say were definitely not smart broke into that score.

Taking tests is a skill that can be refined, and the Japanese school system has proven that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042367
1.Get flashcards
2.Go to Smart.fm 2000 Japanese words goal thing
3.The program is shit and won't give you proper studying so write the words with the kanji on flash cards
4.Review the flashcards. You should also be able to write the kanji from memory.
5.Break the kanji into chunks so it's easier to remember.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042410
I don't know if it's less difficult, but when I took the ACT in high school I scored better than 96% of people without studying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042440
Would be impressive if 97% of the population wasn't retarded. Congrats, you fall into the top 1% of the retarded.
According to a shitty test that anyone with a brain can ace if they payed attention in high school.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042468
I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I was merely pointing out that it's not that difficult to get a high score on these standardized tests.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042415

thanks for the link! i think this might work for me. flashcards have worked well for me so far, i've got a couple hundred words memorized already. that's all learned via romanji, though so we'll see how well this works out...

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042468
nerd

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042468

>payed

I'm too lazy to come up with an SAT percentile joke.

[Anonymous No.]

I thought JLPT 1 was fluency. Apprently it's a little more than that. How many years/hours of studying for JLPT 2?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042546

>>5040252

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042555
Oh, my bad. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042523
It's okay, I'll just laugh at the joke you could have written.
It's funnier that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042440
The ACT is curriculum based, so it tends to be easier, but it depends on your strengths.

>>5042468
Getting a perfect on the SAT without ever preparing is quite a feat. Just because you are smart or know the material doesn't guarantee you will do well on the test. Likewise just because someone scores lower than you doesn't mean you are smarter. I knew plenty of people in my advanced calc university class that took the SAT (Algebra2) five years ago that did not get 800, but were very smart and are now in med school or going for their ph.d in some engineering.

Back to the topic, you can't really rate JLPT to language skill like the OP was trying.
If people prepared directly for the test, they have a huge advantage and can pass the test at a much lower level in the language.
In general I would break it down as:
Studied directly for the test (JLPT1) : you have the tools to start learning the real language now
Studied from materials not related to the test(JLPT1): you probably understand most input, but need to more experience using the language before you are near fluent.
Learned from TV / Books / VNs / Talking (JLPT1): you are probably pretty well grounded in the language, but you most likely have some areas you are a bit of a slouch on.

Its not so easy to make a test that would show someone's ability, which is why most interviews will tend to have a portion in Japanese so they can see your usable skill level. Besides the Japanese have mastered making horrible tests that rely solely on memorization, who would trust that?

those hours probably have some 'class hours' mixed in. so say the breakdown is 200 class hours and 700 hours of use?
that means you have to master 200 lecture hours of info (rated as somewhere between 200 hours and 600 hours of time, on average) but they are only counting it as 200.

[Anonymous No.]

Just this year, a fifth level was added. They've also advanced the difficulty of the higher tiers. Therefore, as it stands for the future, JLPT goes as follows:

5 - Not retarded. Watched Lucky Star with subtitles on.
4 - Probably took a basic level Japanese course at some point. Maybe opened a book once or twice.
3 - Has studied Japanese for a year or three. Knows many basic kanji and essential structures.
*Giant leap in difficulty*
2 - Functionally fluent. Able to use keigo, can listen well, knows ~1200 kanji and their combinations, can create more complex sentence structures.
1 - You are a native Japanese student attending university. Discuss nuclear fusion and recalculate the GNP. While you're at it, translate the Hojoki without getting depressed.

[Anonymous of Croatia !na1byG1GU. No.]

>>5040159
>JLPT TIER 6 - Don't give a flying fuck about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5042809
Indeed, I know people who got a near perfect score on the test who were stupid as bricks. Presumably they studied their ass off for it and/or took it multiple times.

[Anonymous No.]

JLPT is bullshit. I've looked at some samples and even levels 1 and 2 are piss-easy for me. Even though my Japanese still sucks ass.
I'm currently at 2500 characters, wanna get up to 6000 eventually (the 漢字 in JIS X 0208, essentially). Maybe I'll take both the JLPT-1 and the 準1級 test of the 漢字検定 sometime, which would require me to have non-superficial knowledge of around 3000 characters. But I think it's stupid to use this kind of crap as your "goal" in studying, because these tests are, in the end, meaningless and boring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5043061

Sadly, you have to have some sort of certification to prove that you know your shit. "I know Japanese" doesn't look great on your resume. "I passed a standardized exam with a 75% failure rate" says a lot.