So, 3 years and 6 episodes later, has ANYONE come up with a comprehensive theory on wtf is going on in this story? with all the uminekofags who used to constantly argue about it, youd think someone would've written a nice little summary about it, right?

File: 47 KB, 960x540, 231412591.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Apr 14 22:58:44 2010 No.4887655 [Reply] [Original]

So, 3 years and 6 episodes later, has ANYONE come up with a comprehensive theory on wtf is going on in this story?

with all the uminekofags who used to constantly argue about it, youd think someone would've written a nice little summary about it, right?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 14 23:00:44 2010 No.4887666 It's all a giant metaphor of the 19th century Canadian parliament.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 14 23:00:44 2010 No.4887667 ryuukishi did it

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 14 23:01:44 2010 No.4887674 but thats its appeal

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 14 23:02:44 2010 No.4887681 Battler is an idiot, everyone is Beatrice, and Rudolf fucked a god.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 14 23:02:44 2010 No.4887685 Kinzo did it out of OH DESIRE for his dead waifu

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 14 23:07:44 2010 No.4887705 >has ANYONE come up with a comprehensive theory on wtf is going on in this story? No, /thread

Anonymous Wed Apr 14 23:11:44 2010 No.4887722

>>4887655
We can't. We spend all our time arguing multiple personalities rather than trying to tie things together. The rest of the time is trying to reconcile with the greatest problem: half the characters are unreliable and the other half are liars. There is no stable ground. It doesn't matter what rule system we believe the world operates on: unless we have one genuine Holmes or Poirot, we have nothing.

Anonymous Wed Apr 14 23:21:44 2010 No.4887774

Hypothesis: There's a possibility Kinzo was alive on October 3rd and died later that day. Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji keep it a secret, whether or not he is murdered or died of natural causes, so that the coming family members don't break into a shitstorm.

Then someone goes and kills people. Depending on which game it is, this person may or may not change.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 00:20:44 2010 No.4888046
File: 408 KB, 600x480, 1252462880261.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

There was a pretty good discussion some time ago about 2 factions, Witch illusion faction (kanon/shannon/jessica/nanjo/servants and maybe Kyrie) creating fake deaths in order to make the others solve the epitaph and thus prevent the B0MB. And the Yakuza faction (george and hideyoshi) + Rosa as an accomplice who are actually there for the money and start the real murders once shit hits the fan

Other than that it's just a bunch of shkannontrice, moon-chan and psychokyrie blabbering

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 00:23:44 2010 No.4888056 >>4887774 I don{t know if it was confirmed in red. But I think they stated Kinzo died about a year ago.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 00:34:44 2010 No.4888117 >>4887655 Goto /seacats/.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 06:36:44 2010 No.4889389 >>4888117 This does not appear to be a valid board.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 06:44:44 2010 No.4889418 >>4888046 Why would the servants care about the epitaph when they had details about Kinzo's accounts and could send the money to their families?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 06:54:44 2010 No.4889452 >>4888056 Pretty sure it was confirmed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:09:44 2010 No.4889498 >>4889452 No, it wasn't. Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games! Only this was confirmed, though I doubt that the half of ep5 and their plan to hide it for 2nd year is a lie.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:29:44 2010 No.4889554 File: 659 KB, 680x2967, Aristocrats.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4887655

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:33:44 2010 No.4889563 no its not going to be solved 100% perfectly & surely before the last part has come out, I bet there will be room for multiple theories until that time comes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:35:44 2010 No.4889571 >>4889498 "start time", so he could be ''dead'' and then''come back'' alive later remember how Schrödingers cat box-thingie can be used in the Umineko world!

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:38:44 2010 No.4889584 >>4889571 Aka, so butchered, poor Erwin dances the twist in his grave.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:46:44 2010 No.4889606 SAID IN GOLD >KINZO IS FUCKING DEAD, GUYS. GET OVER IT.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:47:44 2010 No.4889612 >>4889584 But is he dead though? Someone better open the coffin to make sure.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:51:44 2010 No.4889623 I know how it happened by just reading until the second time people started dying. Are you ready? Its magic. Deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:53:44 2010 No.4889632 >>4889623 Employed how and by whom?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:57:44 2010 No.4889640 >>4889632 >Employed how Magic >whom? Everyone with magic

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 07:59:44 2010 No.4889652 >>4889623 Did you lick your Witch Master's shoes today already?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 08:07:44 2010 No.4889673 >>4889652 I serve nobody but myself. Do you want it with those pretty sparkles you seem to like so much? I serve nobody but myself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 08:08:44 2010 No.4889676 >>4889640 You gave up

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 08:09:44 2010 No.4889680 >>4889673 You serve witch by helping her spread FUD about magic.

>>	None !Nipaa0mi0. Thu Apr 15 08:09:44 2010 No.4889682 File: 45 KB, 640x480, Black Adder 1x05.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] We need the Witchsmeller Pursuivant.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 08:12:44 2010 No.4889692 Beatrice did it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 08:13:44 2010 No.4889697 >>4889680 I think you need to look up the definition of "serve".

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 08:36:44 2010 No.4889743 >>4889673 Accepting magic means surrendering to the witch. Surrendering to the witch means that you will become her furniture and servant. So shut up, get naked and lick some shoes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 08:37:44 2010 No.4889746 >>4889743 That wasn't said to me was it now?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 13:40:44 2010 No.4891082 If you guys can take Hanyuu's existeance as Ooyashiro-sama as real in Higurashi, why can't you accept Beatrice as a witch in Umineko?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 13:53:44 2010 No.4891189 >>4891082 Because witches aren't real, Hanyuu is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 13:57:44 2010 No.4891226 Y'know 10 years ago OPs image would be uncensored. FUCKING GAMESTOP

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 13:59:44 2010 No.4891239 >>4891226 Oops back to /v/ with you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 14:18:44 2010 No.4891352 >>4891082 People still believe they aren't real?

>>	Suigin !YUsuiginy. Thu Apr 15 14:19:39 2010 No.4891355 b0mb

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 14:24:44 2010 No.4891377 File: 50 KB, 960x540, 1255539125895.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So what is the point of Evatrice, since Eva seems to be a red herring is she meant to represent the new culprit or something?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 14:33:44 2010 No.4891408 >So, 3 years Has it really been that long?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 14:37:44 2010 No.4891424 >>4891352 Only those that are still in the mindset of Episodes 1&2.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 14:59:44 2010 No.4891523 >>4891424 I'm more on the "Magic is real but Beatrice isn't a witch" theory

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 16:56:44 2010 No.4892262 >>4891523 I'm on the "magic and witches exist to frame the story, but they're totally irrelevant to what actually happens" side.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:03:44 2010 No.4892308 I think Battler is actually Kinzo, only at this point he does not know it himself.

>>	Phantom Renegade Thu Apr 15 17:18:44 2010 No.4892383 >>4892262 I don't know if you're serious or if you're mocking me...

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:19:44 2010 No.4892395 A witch did it. QED

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:22:44 2010 No.4892412 Shannon, Kanon, Rosa, Kyrie, Jessica, and all the servants barring Gohda are gigantic assholes.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:25:44 2010 No.4892437
File: 26 KB, 750x422, bang-shishigami1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Doubletrice person, reporting in.

TOH!

Shannon and Jessica are both Beatrice. They have good intentions that just kinda... sorta involve the wanton slaughter of an entire family. But it's fine, because they're fucking crazy, so in their heads it makes sense.

Kyrie and Rosa both have motives unrelated to Beatrice, but cooperate with her when their motives align. For Kyrie it's when she can get revenge(which explains Jessica and Kyrie's broalliance) and for Rosa it's when she can get money.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:32:44 2010 No.4892465 >>4892437 I wonder how Kyrie will react when she finds out Rosa wants to screw her son. Assuming he is her son. Hell, I don't know anymore.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:35:44 2010 No.4892488

>>4892465
See, I am a Fistfight theorist(FUCK YES MORE FACTIONS!), so my intepretation of the whole Battler vs BATTLER dilema is that Jessica is BATTLER, and that Kyrie teams up with Jessica due to the wacky shenanigans with the two Battlers.

The irony being that Battler is her Battler, but Kyrie thinks that Jessica is her BATTLER.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:36:44 2010 No.4892496 >>4891377 She represents the killer's desire to frame Eva for all the murders.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:38:44 2010 No.4892508 >>4892496 Frame Eva? There's not a character in episode 3 besides Battler who explicitly accused Eva, is there?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:43:44 2010 No.4892547 I was so surprised that Battler was actually Zach the whole time....

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:46:44 2010 No.4892568 >>4892508 Jessica, openly, before getting blind. Also Kyrie and Rudolf and their plan.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:46:44 2010 No.4892571

>>4892508
Well, there's two things you need to keep in mind-
1.By being the only person to survive, Eva was decided by everyone in Japan to be the killer.

2.Eva survived by going to the Kuwadorian, right? Who helped her find it?

I don't know anything about episode 6 though so it's possible I have no idea what I'm talking about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:47:44 2010 No.4892576 >>4892508 Jessica accused her

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:52:44 2010 No.4892624 >>4892508 Battler, Jessica, Ange, and all of Japan suspected Eva at some point or another. Presumably because the framing was successful. See also: Episode 5, Natsuhi

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:55:44 2010 No.4892648 >.Eva survived by going to the Kuwadorian, right? Who helped her find it? I'd suggest that Kuwadorian and the location of the gold are connected somehow.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:57:44 2010 No.4892665 >>4892648 I kinda doubt that. I think the relatives/battler would have been more than a little curious over why a second mansion exists on the island, yet they never mentioned it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:57:44 2010 No.4892671 >>4892665 I'm referring to episode 5 by the way.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 17:58:44 2010 No.4892682

>>4892508
The mothers are always framed in every episode. In episode 1 it's Natsuhi episode 2 it's Rosa, episode 3 Eva, Episode 4 Kyrie, Episode 5 Natsuhi again.

Episode 6 is the only episode, from what I can tell, that moves away from this pattern. The rest always have some sort of plot to make one of the mothers look like a demon.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:07:44 2010 No.4892777

Theory: The crazy Kinzo who ranted about Beatrice was a complete fabrication by Natsuhi's faction to explain why he locked himself in his room. This means about 90% of everything we've heard about his personality is a lie. The real Kinzo was a perfectly sane old man who felt like he screwed up with his children, and wanted to make up for his mistakes by treating the servants and the orphans from Fukuin House as a second family.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:08:44 2010 No.4892780 >>4892682 Kyrie wasn't "framed" in episode 4. She quite blatantly lied.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:10:44 2010 No.4892804 I think Kinzo is still alive. the red text doesnt seal him off entirely since there is already another kinzo in episode 4. Battler sees the real Kinzo when he is with Erika in episode 5

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:11:44 2010 No.4892815 he is probably the culprit too what better way to troll everyone than to have kinzo alive commiting murder all along

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:11:44 2010 No.4892817

>>4892780
I really don't care. Your just nitpicking. The point is that one of the mothers is always made to look like a bad guy in every episode. Whether Kyrie intentionally lied or not I don't really care about. The author obviously wanted to make her suspicious in episode 4.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:13:44 2010 No.4892834 >>4892777 Daw. That'd be nice, wouldn't it? But it's WRONG!

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:14:44 2010 No.4892844 >>4892817 I think the argument "She's suspicious, ergo she isn't" is a bit silly. Are you of the belief that Kyrie and Jessica were held hostage by the culprit and forced to lie to Battler?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:16:44 2010 No.4892863 >>4892844 I said I don't really care if they lied intentionally or not. How does that say I think they were taken hostage. They make a phone call and somebody kills them. I really don't care.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:16:44 2010 No.4892865

>>4892834
It does seem to make some sense though. It does seem like the whole thing about Kinzo's love is a tad out there, just to help create the image of "Well, it's Kinzo so I wouldn't put it past him." It also coincides nicely with the fact that all of Kinzo's decisions to revive her never actually happened. It's the same thing with Nanjo always saying that he's so strong he'll be able to live another year. Obviously, they're exaggerating Kinzo's strengths.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:17:44 2010 No.4892874

>>4892834
Without love, etc.

Seriously though, didn't most of our information about him come from Natsuhi's group? Presumably the only way we could get trustworthy information is to filter Natsuhi's bullshit out of the magic scenes or look at what the conspirators say after she gets killed.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:21:44 2010 No.4892899

>>4892863
I was just asking, I never stated that you thought that.

But in episode 4 we have to focus on a logical solution to the whole affair.

Seeing it from Battler's eyes, he sees Jessica get on the phone, and Jessica tells him a crazy story about Kinzo and her mom dying. Battler gets on the phone, hears Kyrie tell him about the tests and what not. Jessica and George depart to take these tests. Battler gets a call from Jessica, telling him that magic exists and that George is dead, and then he gets a call from Kyrie, reaffirming what Jessica said.

Battler's perception of the entire episode is based on what Kyrie and Jessica told him. So I am of the opinion that both are the masterminds for that episode. It really does make the most amount of sense. Add Shannon as an accomplice, and you've just completely solved the episode. I don't think Kyrie is being framed, specifically because of the huge role she plays in episode 4.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:23:44 2010 No.4892924 >>4892899 You have to explain why both masterminds were found dead then.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:28:44 2010 No.4892962
File: 310 KB, 637x478, doubletrice.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4892924
Add Shannon to the mix. She kills Jessica and Kyrie. As for why, well, this picture is one explaination of Jessica's death at least.

Or, even without the whole scene between the two Beatos, Jessica and Kyrie had Shannon as the accomplice, and Shannon kills them both because they didn't know what they fucking with.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:29:44 2010 No.4892972

>>4892924

Jessica is Suit Beatrice, who is only dressing up as Suit Beatrice because Shannontrice wants Battler to remember his sin. Shannon "lays" Jessicatrice to rest in her bedroom when she fails to do so, and then kills herself by the well. The weapon falls through the grate.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:30:44 2010 No.4892982

>>4892924
(first let me say I'm not him)
I don't think Kyrie is an accomplice. I think she was just being threatened by Jessica. I really can't see any reason Jessica would have a problem doing everything by herself. The only issue is her death and I have no clue how that happened.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:32:44 2010 No.4892995 >>4892972 See, If Jessica had simply called him on the phone later on, I'd agree with you. But she spends the entire episode trolling. I think she has a slightly more malicious role than just wanting to help Shannon....

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:36:44 2010 No.4893026

I don't usually read these threads, so I wouldn't know this. Do you guys have any theories about what the Kinzo scene in episode 4 meant (where he kills everyone discussing the family conference)? That confused me to all hell. First, who could overpower so many people? Second, why did they think they were talking to "Kinzo." Third, what reason would make someone go guns a' blazin' to easily kill everyone and then not just get rid of everyone else? Fourth, why were some people captured (assuming that whole thing wasn't just a lie)?

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:41:44 2010 No.4893077

>>4892995

Beatrice is a split personality of Shannon! Ergo, Beatrice believes to be the Golden Witch! Therefore, she orders Jessica to not, under any circumstances, let Battler know that a) Beatrice is Shannon and that b) his sin is what he did to Shannon. Because if she does, then Battler won't be apologizing for any reason but wanting to keep people alive!

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:43:44 2010 No.4893092 >>4893026 Kyrie pressured Krauss into revealing Kinzo's corpse! And then Kyrie and Shannon each pulled guns, which they shot at members of the opposing faction until Shannon and Jessica ran away and Kyrie was able to round up the survivors!

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:43:44 2010 No.4893098 >>4893092 Er, didn't mean to say Jessica.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:50:44 2010 No.4893143 >>4892488 Jessica is the other Battler and is also Beatrice. Kanon is Beatrice is well. Shannon is either Kanon or a crazy person who may also be Beatrice.

GORDON FREEMAN !!L41oD04xiQF Thu Apr 15 18:50:44 2010 No.4893145
File: 106 KB, 345x502, gordon_freeman_big.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4893077
I object. Clearly episode 4 was planned out in advance, and to think that a maid could slaughter everyone on the island spontaneously is a bit naive. To assume that Jessica is just put on the spot a few days before by Shannon instead of actively being part of the conspiracy is to reject her trollish nature.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:53:44 2010 No.4893175 Hot damn, this is one of the better solutions for episode 4 I've seen. Anyone have any good ones for three and two?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:54:44 2010 No.4893183 >>4893175 For some reason, I can't help but feel like Hideyoshi did episode two. I'm probably just paranoid though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:55:44 2010 No.4893192 >>4893175 Thank the whole Shkanontrice vs Moon-chan civil war we had a while back for that. One good thing that came out of that was people piecing stuff together.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:58:44 2010 No.4893218 >>4893143 Jessica is Battler and Beatrice? If that is true I will lead an army of otaku against Ryukushi.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:58:44 2010 No.4893226 >>4893092 >implying Kyrie killed her own husband >implying it's not possible that the first twilight happened later when there is no red saying it happened at that exact time.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 18:59:44 2010 No.4893234 >>4893218 So Shannon is Kanon and Beatrice is ANY better then

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:02:44 2010 No.4893250

>>4893143
No that's wrong.

Jessica is the other Battler. Shannon and Kanon individually are both Beatrice. Meta Beatrice encompasses the personalities of both Shannon and Kanon in the meta world, but on the gameboard they are individual people. That's why there are so many hints for Shkanon in episode 6.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:02:44 2010 No.4893253

>>4893234
No, no, both ideas are silly.

Jessica being Battler only and Shkanontrice being Beatrice only makes sense though. Jessica trolls due to Kyrie's influence - YOU ARE MY SPAWN AND WE SHALL MAKE GREAT SLAUGHTER ON THE USHIROMIYA FAMILY GAHAHAHAHA - and Shkanontrice is just FUCKING CRAZY.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:03:44 2010 No.4893264 >>4893250 Doubletrice fag here. End talks about Beato as a pawn on the chessboard. She can be a queen, knight, or king. But she starts out as a pawn. Riddle me this, she can be FOUR pieces in total, can she not?

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:03:44 2010 No.4893266

>>4893250
> Shannon and Kanon individually are both Beatrice. Meta Beatrice encompasses the personalities of both Shannon and Kanon in the meta world, but on the gameboard they are individual people. That's why there are so many hints for Shkanon in episode 6.
FFFFFUUUUUUU

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:04:44 2010 No.4893282

>>4893145

When did you get the impression that Jessica was ever a troll? The only evidence we have for that is circumstantial, based on the assumption that Jessica is either a) crazy and covering for Shkanon, or b) in on the crime. I've presented a theory that requires neither of those, and therefore means Jessica is pure and not a troll.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:06:44 2010 No.4893295

>>4893145

Also, Shannontrice is not the ONLY culprit! Kyrie is the second culprit, and kills several victims herself! Before she is offed by Jessica, who calls Battler and tells him about the "golden thread" to throw him a hint that Jessica is not to be trusted and is alive!

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:07:44 2010 No.4893307 File: 479 KB, 652x2526, jessiedie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4893282 A pure girl wouldn't mock Battler's hat stand.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:08:44 2010 No.4893317 >>4893282 The fact that she's covering for Shannon and Kanon thing should be MORE than enough. And don't start saying she didn't know, that would be a blow to her characterization as a whole.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:13:52 2010 No.4893354 >>4893317 It's not just Jessica it's Natsuhi and Krauss too. They all live on the island and should all know.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:18:44 2010 No.4893403 >>4893317 When did you get the impression that Shkanon was necessary for this theory?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:19:44 2010 No.4893408 >>4893403 The fact that Jessica knows about it and doesn't say anything in, say, ep1, for example.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:21:44 2010 No.4893435 >>4893408 I mean, why can't Shannon and Kanon be different people?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:25:44 2010 No.4893477 >>4893435 They could be different people, but ep6, at the very least, explains in a straight metaphorical way, that they are really one, the whole duel was an allegory of this, two personalities fighting.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:28:44 2010 No.4893506

>>4893477

I disagree. This ties into my overarching Rokkenjima theory.

Each game, Shannon and Kanon confront each other. Kanon wants his sister back, and attempts to defeat the Beatrice personality--to snap her out of it. Kanon confronts Beatrice directly in every game except 4.

In 6, Kanon gets Jessica to help him snap Shannon out of it. Through some sort of lies, Beatrice gets George on her side. The two sides vy for victory.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:30:44 2010 No.4893524

>>4893477

No.

Quit asserting your interpretation as fact. It could just as easily be a duel between ideals, as in, one of them is the culprit and the other is not, and they both can't obtain happiness because of this, etc.

No where in Episode 6 does it say "Kanon and Shannon are one person", even metaphorically.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:34:44 2010 No.4893575 >>4893506 But Kanon is Beatrice too.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 19:36:44 2010 No.4893586
File: 41 KB, 238x190, battler_pointANGRY.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4893524

This. I'm sick of the Shkanon crowd asserting that it's DEFINITELY TRUE. It's completely unnecessary to solve the mystery, makes things more complicated then they have to be, and completely ruins Jessica's character. It's not true until it's stated in red. Otherwise, it's just another theory.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:22:44 2010 No.4894379
File: 399 KB, 652x2526, troll.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4893586
meet
>>4893307

This conversation damns Jessica no matter if Shkanon exists or not. This speech can NOT be a hostage speech due to her unique manner and knowledge of Gohda and Kumasawa being evasive(said expression knowledge in and of itself shows a particular craftiness), this entire thing has BLATANT contradictions in addition to facts that only a culprit could know.

Regardless of Shkanon existing or not, right here we have Jessica telling Battler magic doesn't exist in addition to a bunch of the Beatrice mythos.

If Jessica was innocent, well, she wouldn't lie to Battler, more than ever if she was about to die. We would get a cliched BATTLER THE CULPRIT IS "bang" if that were the case.

But here, we get something that only a madwoman would do.

Even if Shannon and Kanon are two seperate people, Jessica is still unquestionably more malicious and knowledgable than she looks.

She's not coming out of this smelling like a rose.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:24:44 2010 No.4894386 >>4893524 >I need things to be spelt out for me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:26:44 2010 No.4894401 >>4893524 If Shannon and Kanon aren't the same person, they've been sleeping in the same bed for years. Hot.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:28:44 2010 No.4894420

>>4893586
>It's completely unnecessary to solve the mystery,
Needs to be used to solve ep6. Only unnecessary if you just ignore red by redefining what names mean. lol, solving.
>makes things more complicated then they have to be
Makes things much simpler.
>and completely ruins Jessica's character
Oh no, my Jessica isn't an innocent angsty teen girl in love with a servant! Ruined! She's ruined! Did you miss her trolling all over the place? "Hey, I just died but now I'm alive hahaha Battler accept the witch" "Kinzo is doing just like he was last year~"
>it's not true until it's stated in red
I hate to break it to you, but there isn't going to be a huge red list of truth at the end. If you wait for the red to find the truth, you will still be waiting once the series is over, still trying to say Shkanon isn't true and that retarded theory X with no proof is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:29:44 2010 No.4894427 File: 114 KB, 580x700, 1e741a26fc78118bab17b0becea64987db435c71.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4894401 Fap.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:35:44 2010 No.4894484 >>4894379 I want to believe that Jessica is a good guy after Battler's penis and Shannon's vagina. I want to so damn much.

>>	None !NACK.rrrr. Thu Apr 15 21:36:44 2010 No.4894504 File: 30 KB, 334x338, 1269879983311.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4894427

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:40:44 2010 No.4894547

>>4894420
>Needs to be used to solve ep6. Only unnecessary if you just ignore red by redefining what names mean. lol, solving.

Except it can't be. Blue text seal on the window, etc.

>Makes things much simpler.

Boy, explaining why everyone lies to Battler about Kanon and Shannon's corpses all the time sure makes things simpler, huh? Or how people can be on the island with them for THREE YEARS and not notice they're the same person.

>Oh no, my Jessica isn't an innocent angsty teen girl in love with a servant! Ruined! She's ruined! Did you miss her trolling all over the place? "Hey, I just died but now I'm alive hahaha Battler accept the witch" "Kinzo is doing just like he was last year~"

Kinzo IS doing just like he was last year. Either she's in on the thing with her mom (she has a valid reason to be), or she's not and they've been tricking her too (which still makes her Kinzo line make sense).

The Ep4 call is the only time she 'trolls'.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:41:44 2010 No.4894551 >>4894504 Silly Nack, you and your erections.

>>	None !NACK.rrrr. Thu Apr 15 21:41:44 2010 No.4894554 File: 40 KB, 334x338, 1269879548296.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4894551 Problem?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:43:44 2010 No.4894576 File: 5 KB, 223x171, 1262746126853.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4894554

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:44:44 2010 No.4894579

>>4894547
And her giving the scorpian charm to her mom in episode 1, her discovering the bodies and proclaiming loudly that Beato did it in episode 2, her tampering with the bodies in episode 3, and possibly her accusing Eva in episode 3 as well.

Episode 4 is just the only one where she objectively beyond a doubt this is clear as crystal trolls.

But the only alternative to Shkanon is that Erika never existed, which doesn't make a whole bunch of sense.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:47:44 2010 No.4894617 >>4887655 Snipah did Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:49:44 2010 No.4894641 >>4894579 It's not the only alternative it's just the mainstream alternative.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:50:44 2010 No.4894645 File: 12 KB, 355x118, Ughhh..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4894576 Fuckin yu-gay-oh character get out

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:50:44 2010 No.4894649

>>4894547
>Except it can't be. Blue text seal on the window, etc.
Except you assume the door and the window are the only exits. Nobody ever said that. But they did say for the cousins room it was a complete closed room. Not for the next room.

>Boy, explaining why everyone lies to Battler about Kanon and Shannon's corpses all the time sure makes things simpler, huh?
All the time meaning once when it's Kanon and Hideyoshi (ie, culprit and accomplice, since Kanon killed at least 4 people in episode 1 and hideyoshi is like "lol no" when George asks to see the corpse) speaking, and once when it's the parents who found 6 corpses in a row, Kanon's one being the last or second last, they probably didn't even pay much attention, and one liar among them could trick them all.

>Or how people can be on the island with them for THREE YEARS and not notice they're the same person.
>hurp, how I think?
The people who have been on the island for three years do know they are the same person. Jesus fuck, at least try to think the theory through. They either don't give a shit, because it was how Kinzo did things, or they can't do anything about it because Shkanon knows about Kinzo's corpse. Hurp, better reveal to everyone that they're the same, nothing bad will happen, nevermind that I'm trying to keep the whole Kinzo thing hush hush.

>The Ep4 call is the only time she 'trolls'.
Yeah, and that isn't enough? No, she's still totally innocent.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:52:44 2010 No.4894678

>>4894579
>And her giving the scorpian charm to her mom in episode 1

What about it? The 'filth' was there in Episode 2 as well, and the scorpion charm was never even mentioned. It's very unlikely that it's correlated.

>her discovering the bodies and proclaiming loudly that Beato did it in episode 2

'Beatrice' had already announced that she'd do something. Who else was she going to blame? Battler? The tooth fairy?

It's easier to blame a 'real person' that you know nothing about than someone you do.

>her tampering with the bodies in episode 3

Huh? She never even goes near a body except for Krauss, Natsuhi's, and Shannon's, which she never touches.

>and possibly her accusing Eva in episode 3 as well.

Again, who else was she going to accuse? 'Beatrice' wasn't presented as a person in Episode 3. Eva was the most suspicious one there.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:55:44 2010 No.4894711 >>4894678 Read episode 3 again, she rips out the stakes from her parents bodies, I.E. she touched them. Said parents also had odd death circumstances, so with the confirmation that she touched the bodies, a window of doubt is opened.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:56:44 2010 No.4894727

>>4894649
>Except you assume the door and the window are the only exits. Nobody ever said that. But they did say for the cousins room it was a complete closed room. Not for the next room.

Yes, they did.

There is one door and one window in the Neigboring Room, and no passages we don't know about because of Knox's 2nd.

>All the time meaning once when it's Kanon and Hideyoshi (ie, culprit and accomplice, since Kanon killed at least 4 people in episode 1 and hideyoshi is like "lol no" when George asks to see the corpse) speaking, and once when it's the parents who found 6 corpses in a row, Kanon's one being the last or second last, they probably didn't even pay much attention, and one liar among them could trick them all.

Nice job being evasive.

Why does Hideyoshi lie? Why would they possibly pay less attention? We are never told that they did. Knox's 8th.

>The people who have been on the island for three years do know they are the same person. Jesus fuck, at least try to think the theory through. They either don't give a shit, because it was how Kinzo did things, or they can't do anything about it because Shkanon knows about Kinzo's corpse. Hurp, better reveal to everyone that they're the same, nothing bad will happen, nevermind that I'm trying to keep the whole Kinzo thing hush hush.

And they don't mention it to anyone after the murders start and one of their corpses show up but they're still around... why exactly? That just screams "HEY GUYS THIS PERSON IS THE MURDERER".

>Yeah, and that isn't enough? No, she's still totally innocent.

One suspicious situation does not make you a culprit or an accomplice. See: Eva.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 21:57:44 2010 No.4894737 >>4894711 What? So what? They're also visibly strangled to death. It says there is imprint marks from what strangled them and that their eyes were bulging. You can't fake that shit.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:01:44 2010 No.4894762

>>4894727
not the same person, but Knox's 2nd is no supernatural agencies must help the detective. In other words the detective can't use magic so the culprit can't either. Knox's 3rd forbids hidden passages we don't know about from existing.

But in the original it said that "only one hidden passage should exist" so I think it was changed in Umineko because the passage way that leads to gold is a hidden passage.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:02:44 2010 No.4894776

>>4894727
Eva is different from Jessica and you know it.

Eva was suspicious, but she blatantly committed an evil action(shooting Battler in the chest doesn't count, poor woman was under high stress and most likely acting in self-defense).

What Jessica said she said. It's a fact SHE made those comments, not a fantasy version of her, not a recording, Jessica DID INDEED lie to Battler.

Eva was just under suspicion, but she is not objectively damned like Jessica is. She's a liar, she's a blatant liar, and no amount of alternative intepretations will change that fact.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:04:44 2010 No.4894784

>>4894727
>If I'm not told the answer clearly it violates Knox rules
I think you misunderstand the meaning of mystery. Also, Knox rules aren't a draconian set of iron-clad rules that rule over the mystery with an iron fist so much that they can never be contradicted. Why does Hideyoshi lie? Do you want me to solve the whole mystery for you just so you can accept Shkanon?

>And they don't mention it to anyone after the murders start and one of their corpses show up but they're still around... why exactly? That just screams "HEY GUYS THIS PERSON IS THE MURDERER".
What, and getting Kinzo's corpse isn't just as suspicious? Natsuhi is a delusional fuck, Genji probably doesn't even care and maybe helps, the same goes for Kumasawa. Nanjo clearly helps.

>One suspicious situation does not make you a culprit or an accomplice. See: Eva.
Yeah, because that phone call is just suspicious, it's not a confession that she is a culprit or anything. Nor is the fact that a blond haired girl that doesn't exist appears from the balcony where Jessica's room is.

Protip: in episodes 1-4, if the narrator suddenly changes to third person even though Battler, the usual first person narrator, is present, it probably didn't happen. See: Eva shooting Battler, Battler meeting Beato + Kinzo in episode 2.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:04:44 2010 No.4894787 >>4894762 Thanks, I forgot which Knox's one it is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:07:44 2010 No.4894806 >>4894784 Listen to Marina Inoue's voice in the anime version of that. Creepy as fuck.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:08:44 2010 No.4894816 >>4894727 None of Knox's rules require a why. The clue, that Hideyoshi didn't let George see the corpse, allows us to speculate on Hideyoshi's intentions, which it is the job of the reader to do.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:09:44 2010 No.4894820

>>4894784
>I think you misunderstand the meaning of mystery. Also, Knox rules aren't a draconian set of iron-clad rules that rule over the mystery with an iron fist so much that they can never be contradicted. Why does Hideyoshi lie? Do you want me to solve the whole mystery for you just so you can accept Shkanon?

We must have been told that they pay less attention. You can't solve the mystery without clues, so clues must be presented. "They were tired of finding dead bodies" or such must have been said to assume that they were careless checking them.

And, in fact, they ARE. They're in RED.

>What, and getting Kinzo's corpse isn't just as suspicious? Natsuhi is a delusional fuck, Genji probably doesn't even care and maybe helps, the same goes for Kumasawa. Nanjo clearly helps.

And Natsuhi was super suspicious of the servants after that, too, remember? She didn't want to reveal the situation because she'd go to jail.

That's no where near the same as Shkanon, which wouldn't have bad repercussions on her and she could reveal it without worrying.

>Yeah, because that phone call is just suspicious, it's not a confession that she is a culprit or anything. Nor is the fact that a blond haired girl that doesn't exist appears from the balcony where Jessica's room is.

No, it's not a confession. And someone posted a theory that Jessica = Piece Beato but not a culprit that makes a ton of sense, earlier.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:10:44 2010 No.4894830 >>4894820 Doubletrice bro here, don't mind us just busy solving Umineko and having everyone be a good guy<3

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:11:44 2010 No.4894838

>>4894816

Was mostly talking about the Episode 3 one.

And it may not require a why, but the question still stands, why does Hideyoshi cover for Shannon and not go 'oh hey, this isn't a real person! It's a body double!' when people are DYING?

That's a HUGE red flag that something is going on here.

So you're saying the whole theory basically boils down to "Everyone but Battler (and possibly George) are in on it and know Kanon and Shannon are the same person but don't actually think it's important enough to reveal".

That is MAJORLY fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:12:44 2010 No.4894843 >>4894820 >Please solve the mystery for me, otherwise I can't accept your theory Jesus christ, shut up.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:13:44 2010 No.4894846 File: 91 KB, 400x400, dick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] If only anime Battler was here. He'd know what to do...

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:13:44 2010 No.4894848

>>4894820
1. The detective didn't see the corpse, which is a clue in itself.
2. Hideyoshi comments draw attention to the fact that at least some of the family havn't examined the corpses.

Just because R07 didn't list exactly who and who didn't examine the corpses doesn't mean that the clue wasn't presented.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:16:44 2010 No.4894862 Obviously Hideyoshi is the culprit. He's way too fat and jolly to not be the culprit. He gets on everyone's good side, only to betray them in the end.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:17:44 2010 No.4894868

>>4894784
>
Protip: in episodes 1-4, if the narrator suddenly changes to third person even though Battler, the usual first person narrator, is present, it probably didn't happen. See: Eva shooting Battler, Battler meeting Beato + Kinzo in episode 2.
> Battler meeting Beato + Kinzo in episode 2.
Funny thing is, the parts of that scene that WERE narrated by Battler confirm someone else besides Battler, Genji, and Kinzo's corpse being in the room.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:18:44 2010 No.4894880
File: 239 KB, 655x1092, moonbelieve.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Jessica is the only one that tells Battler to confront the witch and solve everything since the very beggining, even before we knew what the fuck was happening.

I wouldnt put it past Beatrice.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:19:44 2010 No.4894884

>>4894848

So now YOU'RE doing the 'if it's not in red/the detective doesn't see it, it's fake!' thing?

>2. Hideyoshi comments draw attention to the fact that at least some of the family havn't examined the corpses.

Can I get a screenshot of this? I don't recall it and don't have Episode 1-4 on this computer to check.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:21:44 2010 No.4894888 >>4894880 One fourth of the golden witch, my good sir. Just one fourth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:22:44 2010 No.4894902 >>4894862 Nanjo's granddaughter dressed up as Hideyoshi with a fat suit

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:26:44 2010 No.4894929 >>4894888 If Kanon and Shannon are two-fourths more... who's the final fourth?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:27:44 2010 No.4894939 >>4894929 Kyrie

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:32:44 2010 No.4894971 File: 68 KB, 1280x720, Shiina2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Shkannontrice How shallow minded.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:34:44 2010 No.4894982 >>4894929 Beatrice herself, obviously. King = Beatrice Queen = Jessica Knight = Kanon Pawn = Shannon Or something to that effect.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:38:44 2010 No.4895004 File: 104 KB, 800x600, assdangerwat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Beatrice is actually Gigai. Gigai wants Battler's ass.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:41:44 2010 No.4895010 File: 62 KB, 600x383, shit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 22:45:44 2010 No.4895022 >>4895010 What's wrong, too DEEP for you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:04:44 2010 No.4895109 File: 101 KB, 750x1077, lolmaanga.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4894982 Jessica's totally a hero and Beatrice. Yup, she's totally a good guy and wants Battler to remember his sin. She's not evil. At all.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:09:44 2010 No.4895129 >>4895109 "Bawwwww my parents won't let me watch MTV and make me read! My life is awful!" Jessica confirmed for worst character in Umineko?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:10:44 2010 No.4895134 >>4895129 Nah Erika still tops her as worst character

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:11:44 2010 No.4895139 >>4895129 She really, really, really wanted her fucking MTV. Baby.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:12:44 2010 No.4895143 File: 9 KB, 258x288, fuckyouuu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4895129 Bitch needs to chill out.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:12:44 2010 No.4895148 >>4895139 Whatever, just help me install these microwave ovens and move these color TVs, alright?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:14:44 2010 No.4895156 File: 192 KB, 432x600, 1260552116938.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:15:44 2010 No.4895164 >>4895143 Is dat some animu Sill?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:18:44 2010 No.4895192 File: 64 KB, 320x250, 3kyrie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4895143 Making a pun at your own expense.... how cool!

>>	None !NACK.rrrr. Thu Apr 15 23:19:44 2010 No.4895212 File: 48 KB, 159x128, fdgfdgadfgfad.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4895192 >3kyrie.jpg

>>	None !NACK.rrrr. Thu Apr 15 23:20:44 2010 No.4895218 >>4895212 No wait, no pun there!

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:22:44 2010 No.4895241
File: 20 KB, 260x249, aaaaaamelia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4895109
I don't know.

What does /jp/ want Jessica to be?

A troll who does evil for entertainment?

Or perhaps have her evil deeds have a more complex motivation behind them?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:30:44 2010 No.4895318 >>4895241 I just want Ryukushi to not go half assed with her. She should either be a paragon or a renegade.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:32:44 2010 No.4895341 File: 307 KB, 639x479, solvethemystery.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4894880 Wrong. Kyrie said it first.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:35:44 2010 No.4895368 >>4895341 Solving the mystery of who gave Maria the letter as an intellectual pursuit =/= Find out the truth of everyone's horrible horrible murders.

Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:36:44 2010 No.4895371

>>4895241
>A troll who does evil for entertainment?
Mysteries that have a culprit who did it for shits and giggles are low tier. It normally means that the author couldn't explain why the character would do everything so they just say "haha, they did it for the trolling".

>Or perhaps have her evil deeds have a more complex motivation behind them?
It hasn't been proven that she did anything like murdering at all. Lying to some extent, yes. But its a mystery and everyone lies in those.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:37:44 2010 No.4895379 >>4895368 How about this? When Beato dies, she says "thank you, and goodbye." Kyrie says the same thing in her episode 4 phonecall.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:38:44 2010 No.4895386 >>4895368 Except finding out who gave Maria the letter is a major key to the mystery, because that person is undoubtedly working with the culprit. Kyrie said so herself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 15 23:42:44 2010 No.4895417 >>4895386 It's also taken for granted in episode 5 while Battler tries to figure out Beato's motives that the killer is the one who sends the letters. I doubt it's wrong.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 16 00:15:44 2010 No.4895619 Kanon is the only Beatrice and their is no Shkanon, quit your bitching. Maria agrees, don't bother her about it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 16 00:16:44 2010 No.4895627 >>4895619 *there I suck at spelling.

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