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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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File: 31 KB, 240x320, dodonpachi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848014 No.4848014 [Reply] [Original]

People say arcade shmups are harder than Touhou (on Lunatic) but how much of that is due to Touhou giving you a dozen extends and bombs whereas in most arcade shmups you get only a few?

>> No.4848015

Actually, Touhou is about average in that aspect. I've seen games that take lives and bombs as part of the process and expendable.

>> No.4848020

Arcade shmups do that shit on purpose so you keep putting coins in for more continues.

>> No.4848025

>>4848020

You're supposed to finish the game on a single credit, though.

>> No.4848034

>>4848025
Debatable. Those games are designed to skyrocket in difficulty when you reach 50% of it, with patterns that normally require lots and lots of memorization.

>> No.4848035

I never understood why so many extends was the norm for touhou.

As for difficulty it depends on the shmup, you can't generalize.

>> No.4848038
File: 155 KB, 768x1084, zun art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848038

people who concentrate on Touhou because of it's difficulty are doing it wrong. Truth be told there are harder games in it's genre and there are games with better mechanics.

Touhou excels at the experience of playing the game, the beautiful bullet patterns, the thematic well timed music that fits both the games tone and the character they represent, the whole aesthetic of playing the game.

Basically ZUN made Touhou because at the time no other shoot'em up gave him what he craved for, so he made a series of games that did and refined it from there on.

I like other shmups for different reasons. Each one has their flavour. What brings me back to Touhou is that unique style and attention to detail put on the whole tone of the game.

>> No.4848042

>>4848034

No, it's not debatable, the reason the games are hard is because the fans (the only people who play the games) demand it. They won't play the game if it is to easy. And shmups have a complex "rank" system, the difficulty doesn't just skyrocket at 50%, it depends on how you play.

>> No.4848046

>>4848034

What isn't debatable is that credit feeding would get you sharp, irritated stares from anyone waiting.

Also some games have second loops and TFBs how is that not designed for a 1CC run?

>> No.4848048

I think we must make a distinction between advanced shmups and more laid-back ones first. Even if you separate arcade releases from the rest, not all shmups are created equal or with a set level of difficulty in mind.
For example, I can play through the Strike 1945 series without even once breaking a sweat, same with ESP Ra.De., but the DoDonPachi series still represents an unsormountable hurdle for me. This is because the former are much more laid-back than the latter.

>> No.4848054

If Touhou only gave you 5 or 6 lives in total like most arcade games it would be on the more difficult side actually.
But of course, nothing beats Dodonpachi Daioujou...

>> No.4848067

>>4848048
>>4848054
Lemme guess... the DoDonPachi series only lets you have one life?

>> No.4848072

>>4848048
>Strike 1945

That would be Strikers 1945.

>> No.4848076

Ikaruga doesn't even have bombs, and you get what, 4-5 lives?

>> No.4848080

>>4848054
>>4848067

No you get two extends over two point thresholds which is about par.

>>4848048

I recall ZUN specifically saying that he makes his games more relaxing because he likes having a break from the intensity of modern shmups.

ESP Ra.De. is old, and certainly much easier then it's sucessors so I would say that touhou is around normal difficulty for late 90s shmups.

>> No.4848094

>>4848067
No, you start with three lives and get a few during the game by destroying things or reaching a certain score.
What made DOJ so hard (it hasn't been beaten for over a year after release) is not only the extremely dense and fast patterns but also that you didn't get to keep your extra lives from the first loop when you enter the second. The latter was changed in the black label version as well as some other tweaks that made it easier.

>> No.4848099

>>4848076
>Ikaruga doesn't even have bombs

You get homing rays which recharge as you absorb bullets.

>> No.4848102

>>4848099

They don't clean the screen of bullets though, that is what I classify as "a bomb".

>> No.4848116

I think you guys just don't want to face facts that Touhou basically boils down to Baby's First Bullet Hell.
Also, stop calling them shmups. All bullet hells are shmups, but not all shmups are bullet hells.

>> No.4848124
File: 97 KB, 340x480, mushihimesama.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848124

>> No.4848128

>>4848102

Back in my days a bomb was something you used to take down your opponents faster, thus eliminating the main cause of why the screen is filled with bullets in the first place.

>> No.4848130

Smash TV > this stuff

>> No.4848134

>>4848116
"Shmups" sounds better than "bullet hells".

>> No.4848137

>>4848134
Actually, I think bullet hell sounds better.

>> No.4848139

>>4848116

I don't think anyone here said anything to that effect and no one has misused the word shmup yet, do you want a disclaimer next to posts that makes sure people know this?

>> No.4848140

>>4848134
I dislike the word "shmup". It just sounds too stupid.

It was also never used in the early days of videogaming so it reeks of new age gamer to me.

>> No.4848141

>>4848124
This is seriously the only bullet hell game I own. Are there any others worth buying?

>> No.4848146

>>4848140
What did you call them, then? "Shoot-em-ups"? Because "shmup" is just a condensation of "shoot-em-up".

>> No.4848147

>>4848134
>>4848137
Or, fuck, this is /jp/. Call them danmaku if you have a problem with bullet hell.

>> No.4848150

>>4848147
I think I prefer CFSG, short for "curtain fire shooting game".

>> No.4848155

okay, i've gone too long without playing one of these. which touhou is best touhou?

>> No.4848156

>>4848140

So it's an image problem? Your criticism isn't really valid.

>> No.4848159

>>4848146
Just shoot-'em-up. Maybe it was sometimes abbreviated to SEU, as the standard was set by SEUCK. But then kids came along and made up their own word like hipster faggots.

>> No.4848163

>>4848141
None that I know of...

>> No.4848164

>>4848156
If you didn't play shoot-'em-ups during the 80s you have no right to even discuss them.

>> No.4848165

>>4848155
Double Spoilers.

>> No.4848166

>>4848130
As far as I'm concerned, The Red Star does a better job at crossing shmups with overhead brawlers than Smash TV.

>> No.4848171

>>4848164

Most people here were born in the 80s you're just underlining my point.

>> No.4848173

>>4848171
Go back to /v/ kid. Your kind isn't wanted around here. Go play with your Playstations and Xboxen.

>> No.4848184

>>4848140
>It was also never used in the early days of videogaming so it reeks of new age gamer to me.

You're thinking about STG, shmups had been used for decades.

>> No.4848186

>>4848173

23 year olds who started gaming in the 32bit era? I can hardly believe that your impossible standards for even discussing shmups holds in dedicated communities let alone a 4chan board.

>> No.4848193 [DELETED] 
File: 320 KB, 1200x900, 1270008242616.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848193

hey look, another elitism thread on /jp/.

>> No.4848216

Why do I get this feeling people here are thinking that the best STG is the hardest?

>> No.4848221

All other shooters still pale before Galaga.

>> No.4848222

>>4848216
Well Dondondonpachi, Ikaruga and Mushihime-sama really are harder than any of the touhou games.

>> No.4848231

>>4848222
ikurga is easy as hell. you dont even have to dodge half the bullets

>> No.4848234

>>4848216
I don't think any one is saying that. I think they are just saying toho is for casuals that like to jerk off their cock and balls to fictional children

>> No.4848235

>>4848216
Mushihimesama Futari can be both very easy and very hard depending on which mode you pick and it's arguably the finest shmup yet.

>> No.4848239

>>4848235
Cave fucking sucks. only good shump games were made by raizing

>> No.4848256

>>4848239
I think you mean Seibu Kaihatsu.

>> No.4848261 [DELETED] 
File: 174 KB, 840x840, 1270648319962.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848261

there hasn't been a good shmup in over a decade.

the difficulty in games like toohoo and cave shmups amounts to rote memorization. the only reason toohoo didn't fade into obscurity in the 90s was because of the cute little anime girls.

>> No.4848264

>>4848155

For simply jumping in, with a good rise in difficulty, double spoiler.

Else I'd say subterranean animism, but I know that most will say perfect cherry blossom is the best.

I fucking hate PCB.

>> No.4848268

>>4848234

That's a flawded argument. Anyone that masters the Touhou games (as in great runs with few or no hits at all) in Lunatic stands a very good chance of mastering the other games, even if those require a lot more practice. In a way it's a great way of preparing for harder challenges.

If you want to point out a "casual" shmup, all you have to do is look at Genesis and Snes library, they have plenty of quite easy side-scrollers that won't prepare you for a danmaku game at all. In fact, "casual shmups" are pretty rare anyway.

>> No.4848274

>>4848264

Started with EoSD. Fucking loved it. But people claim it's too hard, honestly I don't really see it. I had more problems clearing PCB hard than EoSD hard.

>> No.4848280

Anyone who can complete PCB on Normal should be able to beat the first loop of DoDonPachi, Progear, Mushi Futari BL (Original), and DFK 1.5 (Strong) with a bit of practice. And they will certainly destroy Deathsmiles on the lowest ranks and no extra stage. Sure, games like DOJ, Ketsui and Espgaluda 2 are ridiculously difficult but it’s a myth that touhou games are ridiculously easy compared to arcade STGs if you're just going for a 1CC.

Modern arcade STGs are not evil quarter stealers whose exact path must be memorised. They are about utterly insane optional difficulties (difficulty select, 2nd loops, hidden TLBs) and risk-taking routes for SCORE. I'd actually say the afterthought, abstract score systems in touhou are its biggest weakness. Not how hard it is.

>> No.4848286

>>4848239
It has great game mechanics, fun bullet patterns, catchy music, beautiful graphics, a pleasing atmosphere and it's just damn exciting to play.
What about Raizing? They haven't done any shmups for over a decade.

>> No.4848294
File: 430 KB, 670x1000, 1270758740872.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848294

>>4848268

i disagree. older games are based on reflexes, aiming at the right part of the boss, using the proper weapon, etc. toohoo is just memorizing patterns while holding down one button.

(in before asspained janitor deletes this)

>> No.4848296

>>4848286
>>4848239

The guy who produced all of Raizing's best shooters works for CAVE now, anyway.

>> No.4848301

>>4848280
Finally someone who makes any sense.
Although personally I cleared most Touhou games on hard before I moved to Dodonpachi and I still had a hard time. But that is mostly because the games work a bit different, there is a bigger focus on the stages than the bosses.

>> No.4848310

>>4848286
Shinobu Yagawa, the guy who did the Raizing STGs, now works at Cave. Ibara, Pink Sweets and Muchi Muchi Pork were all his work and feel like Raizing games - though someone has told him that bullet visibility is actually a good thing.

>> No.4848313

>>4848294
Someone here plays ReimuA.

>> No.4848334

>>4848294

You had another post deleted too right? Haha.

Anyway, not all patterns in Touhou have to do with memorizing. In fact a whole bunch of them don't. For example Utsuho's first spell card (not the first attack), dodge the blue bullets and find a breach between the nuclear nuggets. It doesn't get more complicated than that, but it's challenging as fuck. Hell, even some survival spells can be done without memorizing, I managed to capture Nue's survival the first time I faced it. Now, I'm not claiming that the game doesn't have it's fair share of memorization, even if a spell is mostly about dodging there is always a way that is better executed that you'll only learn later, but I don't see an issue with that, and all danmaku games pulls shit like that. It's even worse at arcades when you need to keep putting coins because of memorization heavy patterns.

>> No.4848354

>>4848301
The game design in both series is a little different. Pretty much every pattern in a Cave game takes player position into account (even, for example, radial bursts that don’t need to), so you need to be much better at streaming than flinch dodging shit that comes close.

>> No.4848357

>>4848280

That and there's no motivation to learn it's terrible scoring systems considering that they hand our extends like they're welfare cheques.

While in say those games I make an effort to play for score even a little bit because it gets you much needed extends.

>> No.4848368

>>4848334
>It's even worse at arcades when you need to keep putting coins because of memorization heavy patterns.
You don't know what you're talking about.

>> No.4848372

>>4848354

Most people who come from touhou seem to be terrible at streaming and get trapped every few seconds so that's certainly a big difference.

>> No.4848377

>>4848357

I don't get this. What's wrong with the scoring system in the Touhou games? The only one I disliked was UFO's, the rest were pretty entertaining to do, I especially liked PCB's and SA's. And you make it sound like people only go after high scores to get extra lives.

>> No.4848391

>>4848377

No I am saying that even people playing for survival learn scoring in those games because it gets you precious few extends while in (most) touhou games you can disregard it.

>> No.4848398

>>4848357
True. My first 1CC of an arcade game was Progear and learning to score in the earlier sections to gain extra extends for stage 5 was essential.

I like how a decent score system actually lets you enjoy going through the previous stages again. Nailing the gem stream at the end of stage 1 still feels good even if the stage itself is no longer a challenge.

>> No.4848411

>>4848391

Ah I see. Yeah, I think you might have a point there. The first time I cleared EoSD I barely grazed at all and didn't bothered to gather the points, I only started focusing on the scoring system much later after I've 1cc'd the entire series.

But I wonder if forcing new players to use a scoring system that might make the game even harder is a good thing or not. I don't know how other games pulls this off so I can't really comment.

>> No.4848412

I have to ask, /jp/, when you deny someone's opinion arbitrarily or use your almighty anon powers to forbid someone from enjoying a game (because only people like you do it "right")... do you cum a little?

>> No.4848415

>>4848391
You can't disregard it completely in most Touhou games either because you get lives by collecting point items or reaching some score value. SA and UFO are exceptions.

>> No.4848418

>>4848412
A lot.

>> No.4848427

I thought one of the Seihou extra stages gives you 100 bombs.

>> No.4848431

>>4848411

It would be just as difficult if not harder just playing with your starting extends and maybe that one freebie that some games have. In many games (ESPgaulda 2 comes to mind) you will seriously get fuck all points if you don't learn how to score and you will never get those extra extends.

The games are already hard anyway, new players shouldn't be expected to 1cc it regardless and it's silly to have a system that only people who can 1cc it will use (espeically on games with second loops like the DDP series).

>> No.4848441

>>4848415

I said most I know some use a point threshold. Collecting point items doesn't really count as playing for score though, especially if you just autocollect most of them. Besides you'll eventually get enough for a bucket of extends without trying which you can't say the same for a lot of shmups.

>> No.4848446

>>4848372
I'd beaten a few Touhou games on hard before I started playing Dodonpachi and oh boy do those games not teach you a thing about how to play arcade stages.

>> No.4848466
File: 67 KB, 640x480, marsmatrix.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848466

There are also games that don't have the volume of bullets that some of the danmaku games have, but they reward you for sometimes doing really risky shit for points or achievements. I remember dying a lot in Mars Matrix because I was trying to get more gold/points.

>> No.4848468

SA and UFO have been rather stream heavy haven't they?
I thought that's why so many people seemed to have problems.

>>4848412
I can't see many posts in this thread that read "my opinion is better than yours."

>> No.4848481

Now really, anyone in /jp/ who didnt start with DDP death label is bound for failure and touhou

>> No.4848489

>>4848446
I can teach you DDP stages here,
1. stream
2. stream
3. make a quick movement and cross over your stream (PS. memorizing spawn points can help you as well)
4. repeat with other side of screen

>> No.4848492

>>4848415
And UFO is even the exact opposite. You get lives by NOT scoring. I'd say that one doesn't count for the argument though, because the score system (overall) is anything but detached from the gameplay.

>> No.4848493

>>4848466

Some compared to Futari ultra? Not sure if you're using MM as an example there because that is still very much bullet hell and that game breaks my fucking balls.

>> No.4848495

>>4848155
Start with Perfect Cherry Blossom. If you have problems, start a thread about it, we'll help.

>> No.4848496

Sorry that was "Some as in futari ultra"

>> No.4848506

>>4848495
I think this man means EoSD, PCB lends itself to staring at your hitbox which is a bad habit

>> No.4848507

>>4848506

Least he isn't starting with IN that game ruins new players.

>> No.4848510

>>4848492
You could take any touhou score system (but MoF) and throw it in another touhou game, and it would fit perfectly. I think that's the problem, it's just grazing with some abstract bullshit on top.

>> No.4848513

>>4848506
>>4848507
If he can't re-learn, he sholdn't fucking play

>> No.4848514

>>4848468
Not really. SA has more than usuall, but most of it's of the "tap left a few times, done" variety. Stage 6 has like the only good instance of real stage streaming in the game but most people use Reimu A and just lolgap past it.

UFO has good stages but the only part like that I can think of is stage 3 on hard mode, at the end with the fairies that rush you (normal is trivial, lunatic is impossible without looping around the top)

>> No.4848517

>>4848496

I see what you're saying; yeah it's still hard, but most of the stages aren't consistent walls of bullets that you can only dodge by memorizing patterns. Some of it you have to memorize to get a decent score and so you don't get trapped, but a lot of the levels you can dodge on reaction if you have to.
The gravity vortex thing can also get you out of trouble a lot even though it's a rookie move to use it that way.

>> No.4848519

>>4848514
circle part of stage 5 in UFO is pretty much a form of streaming

>> No.4848521

Are there any on DS?

>> No.4848523

>>4848431
>(ESPgaulda 2 comes to mind)
I need to watch more game play vids of that game.
The scoring system still hasn't clicked in my head...

>>4848507
Still recovering from that. I've gotten much better after spending time with MoF (FFFFFFF bombing), SA (FUCKING CAT), Strikers 1945, and Musashihime-sama.

>> No.4848524

Takumi games just use a million bullets to cover a portion of the screen they could've actually covered with 2.

>> No.4848529

Touhou streaming rarely gets to the point where you have to get decent at creating gaps for yourself to double back over through. In many cave shmups you're having to do it through the entire stage, It's like bread and butter skills in those games.

>> No.4848530

>>4848523
It wasn't until I got the home port I realised you had to hold down the Kakusei button to enter the suicide bullet and x500 mode...

>> No.4848537

>>4848427
Banshiryuu, yeah. But the bombs are weak.

>> No.4848541

>>4848517

I think my biggest difficulty in it is that since it's not tate (which I am used to) the game is designed for you to move around a whole bunch a lot and I don't use the extra space. Also the gravity thing has a bit of a delay unlike the giga wing shield which messes with me a lot.

>> No.4848545

>>4848507
IN gives too many people the wrong idea of what Touhou is/ought to be. It's pretty much the series nadir in a lot of ways.

>> No.4848549

>>4848545
but it has the best music

>> No.4848554

>>4848549
Great music and atmosphere, yeah. And you can be ghost team. So those things aside.

>> No.4848555

>>4848545

The worst thing about it is that reimu/yukari team's bomb frame is as wide as a barnyard and people who start on them never learn how to reaction bomb correctly.

Then they play other games and realize that they don't even have a bomb frame.

>> No.4848560

>>4848555
This is the reason I have yet to do IN lunatic, the game fucks up my bomb reaction even using ghost team

>> No.4848567

>>4848545
Only when it comes to the death bombing system. All the other arguments I hear about it being shit tier are, on average, trolling.

>>4848530
Arcade has an intro segment, you know...

>>4848555
>wide as a barnyard and people who start on them never learn how to reaction bomb correctly.
I've always had the feeling that IN could've avoided that by having some other team with the long frame. I mean, how many that are touching Touhou games for the first time use something other than the default?

>> No.4848570

>>4848549
I found that it got old fairly quickly, for the most part. Voyage 1969-70 were great when I first heard them, but after a few dozen loops, they lost their feel.

>> No.4848572

>>4848567
Real men play marisa 100% unfocused

>> No.4848573

>>4848567
Heh, that might work. As it is, Reimu/Yukari have just about every desirable trait for survival.

>> No.4848577

>>4848572
On lunatic without dying or bombing, with one hand.

>> No.4848582
File: 260 KB, 1037x775, what.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848582

>>4848572
real men use... well whatever this is

>> No.4848583

>>4848567

They'll probably try all teams eventually and stick with the one with the biggest frame anyway. Point is that it shouldn't be in the game full stop, it's already too easy don't teach them bad habits as well.

>> No.4848585

>>4848582
The one on the right is harder.

>> No.4848586

>People say arcade shmups are harder than Touhou (on Lunatic) but how much of that is due to Touhou giving you a dozen extends and bombs whereas in most arcade shmups you get only a few?
>dodonpachi image

You... you have not played dodonpachi.

>> No.4848594

>>4848586
Well barring the TLB he kinda has a point

>> No.4848606

>>4848572
I just like Marisa's theme too much...
It's why I've rarely strayed from Border or Netherworld teams.

>>4848573
On the one side, I can see why ZUN would make it that way, but did the death bombing frame really have to be THAT long?

>> No.4848613

>>4848594
If you mean barring the TLB and every single stage of the 2nd loop, then yes.
The first loop of dodonpachi is not too bad.

>> No.4848620

>>4848521
Nanostray
Nanostray 2
Ketsui Death Label

those are all I know of.

>> No.4848642

>>4848620
>Googles Ketsui Death Label
>Cheapest place has it for $60
>Out of Print
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>> No.4848644

>>4848613
DDP stages arent that bad, just fast streaming and enemy spawn memorizing, occasionally streaming through patterns which require you to stream at a certain slow pace based around needing to kill this larger enemy before crossing the stream, the stages are pretty boring imo once you get to the point where you can do them you feel like youve wasted so much time.

Its the same feeling browsing /jp/

>> No.4848648

>>4848642
It's just Ketsui Demo Label anyway.

The actual Ketsui is going to be released in 2 weeks, region locked to japanese X360 tough.

>> No.4848665
File: 258 KB, 620x875, Youmu3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848665

I'd like to know what you mean by "streaming". I find touhou to be plenty difficult, though that might be just because I keep getting distracted by the patterns and forget where Marisa is.

>> No.4848671

>>4848567
The intro, that is in Japanese anyway, only mentions the regular slow down mode.

>> No.4848698

>>4848648
>region locked
If I didn't need a new five speed for my car, I would've ordered a JDM 360 last month...
Honestly, at this rate I don't think I'll ever buy a NA 360 since, as far as I'm aware, almost all the games that have my interest in NA aren't region locked or have a PS3 port

On the other hand, gonna pick up Deathsmiles when it gets the local release. Even though I don't have a system for it.

>>4848671
THE HELL?!! THERE'S A SECOND ONE??!!!!

>> No.4848726

>>4848671
It's the skill needed to clear level 3-4 or Double Spoiler.

>> No.4848729
File: 166 KB, 1282x953, stream.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4848729

>>4848665
bullets are aimed, tap left or right to avoid with their bad aim

>> No.4848743

Learn to play real games

>> No.4848752

>>4848726
>It's the skill needed to clear level 3-4 of Double Spoiler.
Corrected ...damn 4chon and its "Please wait longer before deleting your post"

>> No.4848765

>>4848665
Some bullets in shoot 'em ups are aimed directly at the player.
It is neither necessary nor recommended to dash anywhere.
Stay there and wait for the aimed bullets to come to you. Since they are aimed at your position (and come from only one direction at most times), all bullets will travel through this position, the cloud of bullets becomes very dense there, but leaves the rest of the screen wide open. (You want to have as many bullets as possible go there, so you move as late as possible, so that bullets which spawn after the initial ones move there as well)
By only moving a few pixels in one direction every time a bullet is about to reach your position, you can control the bullet flow and trivialize the patterns.

>> No.4848771

>>4848698
Press Kakusei and you'll enter Kakusei mode, where killing enemies causes their bullets to turn into gems with a multiplier up to 100.

Hold the button down for a second instead and you enter Kakusei Zesshikai. Now after bullets are cancelled they are replaced with homing bullets instead, which you can cancel again by killing anything else, and your multiplier goes to 500.

Green gems are used differently in both modes, one is by time and the other by bullets cancelled but I can't remember which. And there's also a Kakusei Zesshikai Over mode if you run out of green gems during Kakusei Zesshikai.

>> No.4848778

>>4848729
Why are you playing as Eiki?

>> No.4848783

>>4848771
>Kakusei Zesshikai Over mode
This one is obvious to me since the spell circle turns red instead of the usual purple of Kakusei mode, but how do I know I'm in Kakusei Zesshikai mode?

>> No.4848789

Hey I hear ps3's are from japan maybe you guys can play on one of those? Or is that not otaku enough for you. lulz

>> No.4848806

>>4848765
Ah, that's what I learned to do (a little) in stage 4 of PCB. Those bullets are easier to deal with than the ones that just go wherever they want.

>> No.4848828

>>4848783
Everything goes batshit insane and spews tons of bullets in all directions.
Also there's a jingle sound.

You cannot enter kakusei zesshikai mode without gold, it drains both gold and gems.

>> No.4848831

>>4848783
There is another wave effect when it kicks in, and as soon as you kill something you'll have spiky homing bullets spawn.

The circle that appears in the Over modes will also disappear after your Kakusei Level hits 4. Which you probably want to do in Stage 1.

>> No.4848853

So, any of those recent games out for the PS3? I rather buy them for a console that isn't region locked, god knows why the 360 is getting all the shmups with that shitty D-Pad.

>> No.4848866

>>4848828
>>4848831
Looks like I'll be spending some quality time with that machine next week.
Thanks.

>> No.4848890

>>4848765
In Touhou a lot of that can be passed just by tapping a bit, which is dumb so on those parts I like to weave around just to give myself something to do. I have no idea why better players than I insist on playing in such a boring way, but I see it in replays all the time.

>> No.4848914

>>4848890

Uhh, grazing? Streaming patterns are when you can really rack up your graze count.

>> No.4848947

>>4848853
Only shitty euroshmups I'm afraid.

360 is the way to go, if you're in NA Aksys might be localising more Cave efforts in the future. If not it's JP360 time.

>> No.4848957

>>4848853
All the shmups are on the 360 and most people don't use a pad for them anyway but buy a proper arcade stick.
Just import a Japanese console. Or get Mushihimesama Futari which is region free.

>> No.4848969

>>4848778
because shes a cheating motherfucker, playing as her gives me the visage that I too can weave through walls of orange with ease.

>> No.4848983

>>4848914
I had MoF and non-scoring runs in particular in mind when I posted that. I know you want to graze like a maniac to make that number go up. ZUN should get rid of that shit already, it's the most exploitable part about most of the score systems and it encourages shitty gameplay.

>> No.4848984

My dream Touhou 13 would have a ranking system. Why'd he stop with EoSD?

>> No.4848991

>>4848984
rank is shit, fucking full rank remilia walls

>> No.4848994

>>4848983
If you're playing a serious run, you don't want to make things any more complex than they need to be. It's fine for practice.

>> No.4849008

>>4848991
But I like things to be occasionally impossible!

>> No.4849037

>>4848991
I'd full rank remilia's walls.

>> No.4849060
File: 66 KB, 640x480, knifetoface.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4849060

>>4849008
then just play eosd ultra

>> No.4849102

>>4849060
I tried, but I couldn't get it to work.

>> No.4849463

>>4848334
I'm pretty sure that one of the large bullets will always be headed straight toward you at its generation in Okuu's first card.

>> No.4849482

>>4848334
on lunatic that card is just a fucking luckfested random spam, if you arent full power when you enter it you may as well be timing it out

>> No.4849502

>My dream Touhou 13 would have a ranking system. Why'd he stop with EoSD?

He didn't.

>> No.4849511

>>4849502
What others have rank?

>> No.4849512

>>4849511
Only PCB.

>> No.4849522

>>4849512
Wait, really? The patterns always seem the same to me.

>> No.4849629

Wait, EoSD had a rank system?

>> No.4849640

>>4849522
The effects are almost nonexistent, but they're there.

>> No.4849653

>>4849640
almost nonexistant? it's actually quite viewable, 1cc to stage 3 without dying then die during dream vine and view how much slower it goes

>> No.4849659

>>4849653
We're talking about PCB, not EoSD.

>> No.4849663
File: 17 KB, 192x224, Th06sc42.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4849663

>>4849629
You can notice it easily on Remilia's first spell card. If you're shit the blue shots shoot out in regular circles. If you're going well they fall randomly and there are more (least i think, might be an illusion). Doubles the difficulty of the card imo.

>> No.4849668

It's certainly noticeable in EoSD. I had no idea it existed in PCB.

>> No.4849673

>>4849663
If you play really well and have shit luck you can get walls from up top too man I love walls

>> No.4850041

Well if you are skilled enough you can reset the rank in EoSD by deathbombing, can't you? Ranking system will count that as a hit.

When I was first starting the place I noticed it the most was Cirno's first attack. You have to move a lot if you want to dodge all the streams when the rank is high.

>> No.4850061

Is it possible to make a good SHMUP that doesn't use artificial difficulty?

>> No.4850122

>>4850061

As in?

>> No.4850144

>>4850041
You can also go in between the bullets of Cirno's attack. And yes, deathbombing in EoSD is very helpful.

>> No.4850150

>>4850144

Light streaming is possible? I never bothered to do it.

>> No.4850160

>>4850061
I don't think you know what that means.

>> No.4850161

>>4850150
I usually don't bother, but it can be done. Helps on higher difficulties.

>> No.4852730

>>4848014
This randomly generated post will be deleted as soon as deletion delay allows.
This is what comes of letting /b/tards use the Internet.
Sat Apr 10 01:11:19 2010 5933

>>
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