/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:08:11 2010 No.4738880 [Reply] [Original]

Basically Battler FALL FALL FALLED of the boat and drowned in episode 6

Erika FALL FALL FALLED and didn't drown in episode 6

Kanon rescued Jessica from Erika and died in the closet, but since Jessica's name is never referred she can be referred to as the Actual Battler.

There you go guys I just solved Umineko without Shkanon or Erika doesn't exist.

now get this shit on 2chan!

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:10:11 2010 No.4738892 No

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:13:11 2010 No.4738905

I think you misunderstand "All names refer to the actual people."

You can't give Jessica Battler's name because you think she's the other Battler and say it refers to her. Beatrice is trying to say you shouldn't be retarded like Erika and try to avoid the facts with names, who she says is who she says. When I say "Battler," no matter what you say, what comes to your head is a red haired incompetent man. Not a blond troll.

Beatrice means when she says Battler she means that. It's just a method to deliver the facts of the mystery. If you can't trust the facts she gives you (what a name means, what a closed room is, the fact that the red is truth) you can't solve it either.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:19:32 2010 No.4738947 >>4738905 Why? Other people did it. http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/4705040#p4707027

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:23:11 2010 No.4738981

>>4738947
Because those other people are also misunderstanding it?

I mean, do you even know why Beatrice uses that red? It's because Erika tries to say Kanon's real name is actually George. The same thing as trying to say Jessica's name is actually Battler. It's a cheap way out of a mystery by trying to deny even what's being told to you. So basically, you're trying to use this red in way that gives it no purpose at all. All it means in your interpretation is "Oh, they really have that name, so I guess they're the actual person." That makes the red completely useless. It makes fans about to say "Oh, Nanjo's name is Erika, Jessica's name is Battler, Kanon's name is Battler, Battler's name is Amakusa." I mean come on, can't you do better than that? Is all you can do say X name instead means X so you can avoid the whole mystery altogether? You could "solve" every mystery in the game in a cheap way like this. I'm sure Ryuukishi would be very disappoint. Does he need to write a page in red for you on this point?

Language is an agreement. If you can't even trust that agreement, you can't even begin.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:25:11 2010 No.4738998 >>4738880 >You can't give Jessica Battler's name because you think she's the other Battler and say it refers to her Why? Other people did it. http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/4705040

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:27:11 2010 No.4739006 >>4738981 Doesn't Shkanon basically do the same thing? They say a person name Sayo is actually named both Kanon and Shannon so shouldn't that not be a solution either?

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:29:11 2010 No.4739020

>>4739006
It would be the same thing if you were saying Jessica and the Battler we know are actually the same person.

It's not the same thing with Shannon and Kanon being the same person when there's evidence everywhere for it. But also, isn't Shannon = Kanon not the answer to this? Something Featherine says about it causing another logic error.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:36:11 2010 No.4739058 >>4739020 >But also, isn't Shannon = Kanon not the answer to this? Something Featherine says about it causing another logic error. apparently you can get around that somehow.

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:39:11 2010 No.4739071

>>4739058
Really? My advice is to wait until it's actually translated, even though Witch-Hunt is never going to translate it. Basically, because we had this same thing before episode 5 was translated. Remember the knock on the door we had? When that red was translated by someone other than witch hunt, the red seemed to say that the knock on the door happened.

People came up with the most ridiculous explanations to work around that. It wasn't quite the same because they didn't have to start thinking Shannon was Kanon or something similar, but it still seemed impossible.

Then when Witch-Hunt finally translated it, nowhere does it actually say the knock happened. We could be relying on another broken translation, and we don't understand the context of it fully either.

What does 2ch think anyway?

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:40:11 2010 No.4739077

>>4738981

Actually my argument was that Jessica's name was never said in red in episode 6 therefore she can be referred to as the actual Battler because there is nothing saying Jessica refers only to Jessica.

.>>4739020
>It would be the same thing if you were saying Jessica and the Battler we know are actually the same person.

I guess I could make this argument too If I wanted to, but I don't want to.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:42:11 2010 No.4739088 >>4739071 I dunno what 2chan thinks. they don't allow gaijins to post there right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:43:11 2010 No.4739093 >>4739071 What's wrong with the knock? It could be that someone set the clock ahead so at the real 0:00 he wasn't at the mansion already, but when the clock rang 0:00 he knocked.

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:45:11 2010 No.4739101

>>4739077
I don't think you really could make that argument. Since the past episodes make it impossible. If we think even the detective has DID or is lying, it all falls apart.

First, Beatrice says
># The people who were in the neighboring room at the time it was sealed were Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo. And, there were exactly five people in the neighboring room. No one other than the people corresponding to those five names existed! All names refer only to the actual people!
Seems like she could only be referring to those names. However, she later says:
>Of course. Three people, that is, three bodies, went in and out of the room. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people. Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.
The therefore is definitely the key word. The first point leads logically into the second. Therefore, it applies to everything.

Jessica's name is never said, but there's a reason for that. Erika tries to be clever by getting Battler to say the moms are where they were discovered "killed," Battler is where he was discovered "killed," Shannon, George, Hideyoshi, Nanjo and Kumasawa are in one room, and then "everyone else" is in the last room. She does this to avoid any extra people slipping in. And it's the reason Jessica's name isn't said. Nothing suspicious about that.

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:47:11 2010 No.4739113

>>4739093
What's wrong with the knock is that the red before witch hunt translated it implied the knock both truly happened at that time, and truly happened.

If you look at witch-hunt's red, it doesn't even say the knock actually occurred. In other words, the answer is an old Ryuukishi standby, just like the situations where a door wasn't even said to be locked to begin with. The most obvious solution is that the knock was a lie fabricated by all who "heard' it. Considering those are the same people who product a letter supposedly from Beatrice that says Battler is the new head. And probably the same people trying to frame Natsuhi to get her to say Kinzo is dead.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:48:11 2010 No.4739119 >>4739113 Oh, and of course, the same people who claim all the other cousins are dead in the room.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:49:11 2010 No.4739123 >>4739113 Then how did they get the ring of the head? It supposed to be in Natsuhi's/Krauss's possession after Kinzo's death.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:52:11 2010 No.4739130 >>4739123 The servants would be the ones actually writing the letters. So probably Genji. He was with them. I doubt he would approve of Kinzo's will being violated. (And he also seemed to be faking his death)

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:53:11 2010 No.4739138

>>4739123
Battler is in the room with everyone and Erika later and she never points out that he's wearing a ring. She's a competent detective so I think she would notice that. Odds are the scene with the letter never happened there was never any letter and Battler never wore the ring. The red never said a letter actually existed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 04:57:11 2010 No.4739148 >>4739138 Even that? Who were the people who actually "saw" the letter?

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:00:11 2010 No.4739158
File: 1.08 MB, 640x1920, 1267217128773.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4739130
And I doubt that Krauss would entrust the storage of the ring to him.
By the way victims of the first twilight were actually killed next day at least before Natsuhi went to closet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:03:11 2010 No.4739170 >>4739158 I don't know about that. Krauss is pretty incompetent. But see >>4739138 Can you show they really had the ring?

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:03:11 2010 No.4739172

>>4739148
Well the only important person Erika never saw the letter. Everyone at the family conference plus saw a letter, and supposedly Shannon and Kanon saw the ring. The scene says somebody knocked and a letter was found outside the door with the heads ring. But all methods of delivery of the letter and making the knock were denied no person or object made the knock. The only thing Erika never asked them to repeat was "a letter actually exists". So you can argue that there was no letter. You can even argue there is no ring.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:04:11 2010 No.4739178 >>4739172 the clock was tampered with

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:04:11 2010 No.4739179 >>4739172 Erika really was a useless piece.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:05:11 2010 No.4739181 >>4739172 Also I forgot to mention. Shannon and Kanon and the people at the family conference never claim to have seen the ring after this scene. There is nothing saying the scene even happened.

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:06:11 2010 No.4739182

>>4739138
>Erika later and she never points out that he's wearing a ring
".........Interesting. I see, you are the Ushiromiya family head, the one who bears the ring of the head. That should more than qualify you to stand in for Kinzo-san. .........Why don't you let us have a look at your theory?!!"

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:06:11 2010 No.4739187 >>4739182 source?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:07:11 2010 No.4739193 >>4739187 Scene at the study. I found it in the text. Now I will ctrl to it in vn.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:11:11 2010 No.4739211 >>4739193 >Now I will ctrl to it in vn please do

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:19:11 2010 No.4739240 File: 334 KB, 640x480, 121834.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4739211

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:23:11 2010 No.4739250 >>4739240 How does an Erika know what a family head ring is?

Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:28:11 2010 No.4739280

>>4739240
The only way I can think of to explain this is that Battler found the ring where he found the gold and revealed it to everyone as a surprise later. Maybe Kinzo left it with the gold as part of the prize.

Because the letter clearly didn't get delivered by anyone or even by accident so Battler must of got it some other way.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:31:11 2010 No.4739284 >>4739280 But really, how does Erika know about the ring? Maybe she saw it on his finger, but she would have to recognize it. When does she learn about it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:32:11 2010 No.4739290 >>4739284 It's the one ring to rule them all? I dunno... What about George's ring?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:37:11 2010 No.4739299 >>4739240 Whose narrating this scene? If it's Battler you can't trust it. Dammit! It's useless it's all useless Battler will never be the head!

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:40:48 2010 No.4739310 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 6313281.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:41:48 2010 No.4739313 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 8593061.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:42:46 2010 No.4739319 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 1269682950532.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:43:11 2010 No.4739322 File: 185 KB, 461x480, dla_defa1b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4739250 >>4739284 Was there any clues pointing that the ring is fake?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:43:48 2010 No.4739324 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 17881289.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:43:48 2010 No.4739321 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 16722484.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:44:11 2010 No.4739330 >>4739280 >Because the letter clearly didn't get delivered by anyone or even by accident so Battler must of got it some other way. See >>4739178 >>4739093

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:44:19 2010 No.4739331 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 25016277.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:44:48 2010 No.4739327 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 20411920.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:45:19 2010 No.4739332 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 25288053.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:45:50 2010 No.4739333 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 28970235.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:46:51 2010 No.4739336 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 33501556.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:46:51 2010 No.4739338 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 73031938.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:47:11 2010 No.4739343 >>4739330 Nobody could look at the grandfather clock from inside the room. The time is irrelevant. You need hints: see>>4739322

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:47:51 2010 No.4739344 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 77011947.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:48:23 2010 No.4739346 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 79276193.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:48:23 2010 No.4739347 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 81783452.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	cyb !!KZ1+uy4Ew9D Sat Mar 27 05:50:11 2010 No.4739354 File: 628 KB, 1057x720, batora.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Episode 6: Dawn of the Golden Witch Translation: 6% Editing: 0%

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:50:50 2010 No.4739355 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 1269683434676.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:51:22 2010 No.4739358 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 121364920.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:51:55 2010 No.4739359 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 135518464.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:52:11 2010 No.4739362 >>4739322 what ring?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:52:54 2010 No.4739364 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 144045450.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:52:54 2010 No.4739361 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 136709259.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:53:11 2010 No.4739369 >>4739362 It sure couldn't be Kinzo's ring.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:53:55 2010 No.4739367 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 149154740.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:53:55 2010 No.4739368 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 152892932.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:54:55 2010 No.4739370 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 154078317.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:54:55 2010 No.4739374 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 155859435.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:55:55 2010 No.4739376 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 160313817.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:55:55 2010 No.4739379 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 168603293.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:56:55 2010 No.4739382 File: 27 KB, 600x600, 190009250.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:57:55 2010 No.4739386 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 201764489.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:57:55 2010 No.4739385 File: 28 KB, 600x600, 201176420.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:58:25 2010 No.4739391 ah screw it, i'm sick of spamming. night fags.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 05:59:25 2010 No.4739397 >>4739391 why haven't you been permabanned yet, jones?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 06:02:11 2010 No.4739407 >>4739362 The one Erika saw on Battler's hand.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 06:10:11 2010 No.4739426 >>4739407 You mean in the scene where Erika isn't narrating? This is from Battler's POV right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 06:26:11 2010 No.4739475 >>4739322 I like that surfboard your holding there Dlanor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 06:47:11 2010 No.4739535 While I doubt the text in episode 6 worked precisely that way, the candidates for the second Battler are pretty much limited(Once again!) to Jessica and Shkanontrice. It'll be interesting to see how that will play out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 06:50:11 2010 No.4739545 >>4739535 PROTIP: It'll involve metal gears and fistfights.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 06:56:11 2010 No.4739565 >>4739535 Oh god, if Shkanontrice ended up being Battler's half sibling I'd lol, hard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 27 07:12:11 2010 No.4739646 >>4739426 No, it's from POV of meta-characters and us readers. Erika said it and we "heard" it. Detective's words cannot be interpreted differently by game master.

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