[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   

File: 89 KB, 720x960, 1268059054965.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4711189 No.4711189 [Reply] [Original]

If I understand this correctly, this is how everything came to be according to ZUN.

We have a human, a caveman if you will. He is sitting alone, hiding in some damp and rancid cave, hoping that he will not be the morsel of something big, hungry, and with very sharp teeth and claws. This fear grows as the night passes, and from this fear a Youkai is born.

>> No.4711204

Yeah, pretty much. This isn't a new idea, ZUN just stole it from others.

>> No.4711215

Fear leads to anger
Anger leads to hate
Hate leads to poofy hats

>> No.4711225
File: 155 KB, 586x800, 1268889729408.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Now that the night has passed, the same caveman comes out and he is hungry. He looks for anything too fill his grumbling stomach, when he stumbles upon a bush filled with berries. He marvels at his luck, and happily eats. From the bottom of his mind, he hopes that someone or something, out there, is looking out for him. From this hope, he envisions something akin to a god, the god of berries, who makes these bushes appear here and there so he can eat.

From this primitive faith, a god is born.

>> No.4711233

Fear is the most powerful emotion in the world. Man has always been afraid of the night, and what lurks within it.

>> No.4711265

I've always imagined Rumia to be extremely old. Or at least her first incarnation.
Fear of the Dark is one of humanity's most ancient fears, after all.

>> No.4711285
File: 333 KB, 778x952, 1268417080119.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

An old fear, yes, but a very weakened one.

After all, when was the last time you feared the dark when you have all those light bulbs around you?

This is why Rumia is such a weak and useless Youkai.

>> No.4711298

Makes sense.

>> No.4711309

What about the Lunarians though?

Aren't we to believe that the Legend of Kaguya-hime and her place on the moon exist?

>> No.4711315

I recently read a Discworld novel (Hogfather) that deals with this.
Then there's American Gods.

Pretty interesting stuff.

>> No.4711320

Which canon source states that youkai come into being through the power of belief, rather than being quirks of nature?

>> No.4711324


Don't forget she's sealed. Who knows how powerful she would get if somebody removed that seal.

>> No.4711328

I don't think I've ever been afraid of sunflowers or plants.

Nope. I mean Cavebro's might have been because half the ones they tried to eat were toxic enough to kill them but besides that I dunno.

>> No.4711337



>> No.4711345

Izzat "Khorne"?

>> No.4711354


Fear of the dark is still one of the most common fears. Don't forget that 2/3 of the world still live in medieval like environment.

>> No.4711358

Good. So where is OP going with this?

>> No.4711370

Of course, traditionally, youkai came to be when an organism reached a very, very old age (for their species). Of course, this can mesh with OP's statement quite well - perhaps the fear uses a sufficiently aged organism as a body to become a tangible youkai?

>> No.4711375


I thought youkai, for the most part, couldn't survive outside of Gensokyo because people have largely stopped believing in them.

>> No.4711425
File: 428 KB, 600x675, yuugithebarbarian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>We have a human, a caveman if you will. He is sitting alone, hiding in some damp and rancid cave, hoping that he will not be the morsel of something big, hungry, and with very sharp teeth and claws. This fear grows as the night passes, and from this fear a Youkai is born.

You know what he was afraid of.

>> No.4711462

Given their description, yes.

The Strongest Kidnappers


>> No.4711480

inb4 powerlevelfags with their "hurr youkai and lunarians can smash you with one finger durr".

>> No.4711498
File: 53 KB, 500x494, 1268768076244.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That's , like, what you want to argue man.

>> No.4711496
File: 106 KB, 640x480, Kappawarning.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

There are still a lot of youkai in the outside world and humans who believe in them.

>> No.4711503
File: 54 KB, 412x371, 1234886368564.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Humans, Youkai and the Gods
>implying there is more than one God

>> No.4711507

Common sense.

>> No.4711514
File: 185 KB, 900x627, 1268749339378.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Faith hasn't really gone away. It is still there, but very faint.

I am surprised that there is no Boogieman Touhou though.

And after Hollywood, I doubt many people fear or take vampires seriously anymore. I suppose that is why Remilia and Co. went to Gensokyo?

>> No.4711536

>common sense
Yeah, right.

>> No.4711557
File: 584 KB, 640x480, no devils.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4711572

Maids are mythical beings. So she must also fade away when the time comes.

>> No.4711575
File: 872 KB, 1002x1417, yuugiyuuka.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


While I don't recall them by heart, know there are scientific names for the fear of spiral bindings on notebooks, fear of eggshells and fear of fire trucks. And while I don't know if it has a scientific name, several people in my extended family suffer from mortal fear of escalators.
Just name it and there is bound to be at least someone who's afraid of it.

>> No.4711578


>> No.4711598

I don't think you necessarily need to fear something for it to manifest as a youkai, you just need to believe in it.

>> No.4711622
File: 131 KB, 640x580, 1268926431611.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Probably. Fairies are not fearsome.

The Gods must be much more frail, since they require faith, and not belief, to exist.

>> No.4711666
File: 360 KB, 600x800, sakuyaaya.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


Sakuya was something else before she became a maid. If maidkind was to perish in some great holocaust, Sakuya would prevail.

By any means necessary.

>> No.4711696
File: 255 KB, 300x820, 1263662768669.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

She's still a pedophile

>> No.4711708


No. It's canon they leave to hunt humans in the outside world pretty often. And that they could remove the barrier without much consequences.

>> No.4711722
File: 157 KB, 1000x1000, 1268055926230.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You think so? I believe it would lead to an all out war.

>> No.4711739
File: 652 KB, 725x1024, 1268645069370.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This is part of why magicians need to live without fear, or any emotion not under their control.

>> No.4711754

He doesn't "believe", he knows. Read what ZUN writes.

>> No.4711756

Canon is bullshit.

>> No.4711771

>No. It's canon they leave to hunt humans in the outside world pretty often. And that they could remove the barrier without much consequences.

It's not canon if you just say that it's canon. Do you have a reference here?

The same goes for the OP. I think your explanation is really great and I wouldn't mind if it was actually Touhou canon, but did ZUN ever say anything like this? And if so, where?

>> No.4711806

>Do you have a reference here?
Why are you even trying to argue about Touhou if you haven't even read the canon material?

Yakumo Yukari
Mastermind behind the spiriting away
~character titles

The details of this contract are that the youkai will offer them humans from which to feed (*3); in return, the vampires will not attack humans living in Gensokyo.
3: It's said they are outside humans whose deaths are of no consequence (suicides, etc.)
Of course, even now, the contract remains in effect.
~PMiSS Vampire

+another source which I would need to find again.
~Youkai could easily break the border
~Youkai hunt humans outside (deaths treated as suicides/people gone missing)

>> No.4711811


>Thanks to their magical culture, youkai could easily breach the barrier around Gensokyo. However, they chose not to do so; in fact, they strengthened the seal in order to prevent more humans from entering.
>However, youkai eat humans and natural humans are favoured as delicacies. Teams of cooks regularly venture beyond the barrier to hunt humans. They apply many methods to conceal their existence from humans of the outer world; accidents and people who run away from home... There are too many humans today for anyone to notice when a few go missing.
>Thus, the age of humans and youkai began anew.

>> No.4711832


I bet they are behind all supposed alien abductions.

>> No.4711839

If you read texts on the Kabbalah, what you just said is explained more clearly in detail.

>> No.4711854
File: 137 KB, 1000x707, eirintwopiece.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


Well... not quite all.

>> No.4711855

Another occulist named Konstantinos explains that "gods" are also made by humans.

Even if it is possible to summon the likes of the Egyptian gods, they are uncontrollably powerful.

>> No.4711858
File: 119 KB, 450x479, 4d0f8c07c79ed783e57f779324cb6153.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Pretty much every magical system has the same(or a similar) way of explaining that. I personally like the idea of demons representing flaws in humanity, flaws to be defeated for enlightenment to be reached.

>> No.4711874

Those exist as inner demons. Inner meaning THEY ARE INSIDE YOUR HEAD RIGHT NOW.

PS: You'll never beat them. Only buddhas have done so.

>> No.4711885

>>"EGREGORE: An engergized astral form produced consciously or unconsciously by human agency. In particular, (a) a strongly characterized form, usually an archetypal image, produced by the imaginative and emotional energies of a religious or magical group collectively, or (b) an astral shape of any kind, deliberately formulated by a magician to carry a specific force

>> No.4711893

>>"Any symbolic pattern that has served as a focus for human emotion and energy will build up an egergore of its own over time, and the more energy that is put into such a pattern, the more potent the egregor that will form around it. The gods and goddesses of every religion, past and present, are at the centers of vast egregors charged with specific kinds of power. This power is defined by, and contacted through, the traditional symbolism of the deity in question."

>> No.4711897

>>Through the imagination and remembering the dead, either through praise, adoration, mourning etc., imaginary picture forms of the dead are created and are given life, which, when often repeated, have a fairly long life span. These created picture forms are called phantoms. This type of phantom is one which makes itself known to the spiritualists, necromancer, sorcerer etc. Also goblins and ghosts are nothing but phantoms, which nourish, condense and maintain themselves through the attentiveness of the survivors, as it is the case with schemata.

As for other info, read up on
pp. 13-15 at


>> No.4711924
File: 434 KB, 1280x800, 0fc48c58e795425397ed12c9cdee5928.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yes, personal demons.

And one doesn't need to be of any special birth or destiny to improve themselves and overcome their personal demons. To call enlightenment an exclusive club is a claim that no one can hold up.

>> No.4711929

There's this other occult system that basically describes creating magical entities by using semen and those sort of bodily fluids.

etc etc etc.

IOTW, a lot of Western occult texts mention artificial youkai creation, basically.

Also means Kogasa can be better sustained through receiving sex instead of surprising people.

>> No.4711939
File: 131 KB, 500x333, 3368425688_49d0b8cf0c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>he believes he can overcome his personal demons without achieving inner enlightenment

>> No.4711948


More info on egregores. This shit applies to Suwako and Kanako.

>> No.4711961

Golems? That weird named thing that Ilya from FSN is supposed to be?

>> No.4711962
File: 305 KB, 1055x1500, 896de506c079c1721879b1831afbf523.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Succubi feed off of the intense feelings and emotions of sexual release. Egregores are called plenty of different things in different spiritual systems, from constructs to thoughtforms.

It's a concept that is universal to all magical systems.

>> No.4712013

Has anyone heard of an time-manipulating egregore called Fotamecus?


>> No.4712028
File: 99 KB, 850x663, sample-f218d294d566209f9ebf982d41cbfe17.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Implying those two are not the same thing

>> No.4712029

"this is an egregore created by a group of Chaos Magicians on their way to a metal concert one night. It was supposed to compress the time it took to get there, and, initially, they siphoned off the emanations from the crowd at the concert to feed it."

IOTW, let's create a Suwako Moriya.

tkforums.com /index.php? topic=991

>> No.4712054
File: 502 KB, 1280x1024, 1268460859788.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Chaos magicians are crazy funny. Did you hear about Goflowolfog? He's a spirit made to fix traffic jams, and is represented as a cat with sunglasses on a skateboard.

>> No.4712094

>cat with sunglasses on a skateboard
Sounds to me like Goflowolfog is one cool cat.

>> No.4712156

Welcome to Chaos Burger, home of the Chaos Burger, can I take your order?

>> No.4712190
File: 80 KB, 512x512, Pentagram.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Are we having an occult thread?

On /jp/?

I love you guys.

>> No.4712329

I guess all this occult talk makes Touhou make more sense now huh?

Youkai = phantoms, egregores....

>> No.4712357

Let's start worshipping and evoking Suwako so we can officially have a /jp/ goddess.

>> No.4712359

All these folks spilling semen on figurines and images of 2d girls are basically creating their own phantoms unwittingly

>> No.4712370

The way I look at it, it's not only fear, but emotion and belief. Feel some emotion at its strongest, and either you or the object of your emotions turns into a demon. Anger ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiyohime ), covetousness ( http://www.sacred-texts.com/shi/kwaidan/kwai07.htm ), hunger (certain rituals to bind a dog spirit to yourself includes starving the beast with a feast just outside its reach and then charming the newly formed ghost with food), pride (certain tales about tengu), jealousy and attachment (a whole slew of ghosts) and so on.

Hell, even people after you dick around with your life. Ryogen went from some random monk to the king of demons in like 300 years.

>> No.4712394
File: 301 KB, 800x1131, Yorihime u mad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Youkai are weak!

>> No.4712427

I shall draw the summoning circle at once!

>> No.4712429

>let's make an egregore guise

We already have. Memes kinda fit the definition.

Which means the most significant of the egregores is CIRNO LOL BAKA BAKA 9 GET

>> No.4712432

Cirno dun deserve goddesshood.

Suwako is the best.

>> No.4712436

Quickly, prepare the Suwako egregore!

>> No.4712664

Let's organize this.

If you wish to worship Suwako and Kanako, every Sunday you must spend at least two hours praying to them.

>> No.4712671

>If you wish to worship Suwako and Kanako, every Sunday you must spend at least two hours fapping to them.

>> No.4713911

No, fap as often as your supply of semen gets replenished.

>> No.4713958


>If you wish to worship Suwako, every Sunday you must spend at least two hours fucking her.

>> No.4714685

Let the occult rituals begin! Bring Suwako into the world!

>> No.4715416
File: 268 KB, 1200x1771, 1261348933720.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Unless we screw up and summon someone we did not want.

>> No.4717488

Hmm, we can jump-start an egregore by using the crowds at Comiket as fuel.

That's easily more than ten times the fuel used by Fotamecus at that rock concert.

And if we're patient enough we can do this for each Comiket day.

>> No.4717501

It won't be worthy of Suwako or Kanako unless you go without for at least a few days. Preferably a week.

>> No.4720186

Must offer to the Mishaguji!