/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

I'm listing a few of /jp/s cosmic entities for power level purposes. And I have a bit of a problem. Between Shinki and Yukari who would /jp/ say is the strongest, or at least could win a fight?

Shinki:
- Goddess creator of the infinite realm Makai
- Wielder of the ultimate magic

Yukari:
- Power over boundaries that rival the Gods in creation and destruction. Fucking hax, if you have a boundary you're fucked and by definition anything that exist has a boundary.
- Smart, supercomputer level smart.

So your thoughts?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649566
Shinki: Tea?
Yukari: Tea!
True End

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649580
THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS AND YOU GODDAMN KNOW IT.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

Shinki would win
I'll go get my powerlevel discussion gloves

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649580
This is the true end though, for every Touhou

Tea solves everything

[Anonymous No.]

Can't say.
In the end all I care about is what makes for a better story.
So I'll just go with - If they fight in Makai, Shinki wins, else Yukari wins.

[Anonymous No.]

I generally do power levels by one golden rule:

Don't assume they have enough power to do anything more than what they've done in game.

So no Yukari border hax.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649627
why do you say that?

[Anonymous No.]

Yukari has power over boundaries, which is a ridiculously hax power that lets her do pretty much anything to you.

Shinki has 'the ultimate magic'.

Ultimate means that it is the greatest, ergo, it is more powerful than Yukari's border hax.

Yukari can fuck you up in any way you can think of. Shinki can fuck you up in ways THE HUMAN MIND CANNOT COMPREHEND.

[Anonymous No.]

LOL none of the characters in Gensokyo are on a cosmic level.

That's right, even Yukari and it's deities.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649625
Yes but after genocidal slaughter of hundreds if not thousands of fairies and familiars followed by epic earth shattering, heaven sundering battles. THEN they drink tea.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649653
good thing Shinki is out of Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649653
You're either confusing the term cosmic or don't know how high the power levels in touhou are or you're a secondary who's only knowledge of the series comes from second hand heresy, memes and cute flash shows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649667
The Makai is still part of Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649644
Not really though. Yukari could win a battle if all she did was gap herself every time the enemy shoots at her, then repeats until the enemy tires them self out then pummels them.

It would still be "hax" but not what most people have in mind.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649672
nope

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649672
Wow

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649674
you realize Shinki left the entirety of Makai in flames with a single spell while holding back, right?

[Anonymous No.]

Keine is the strongest, she retconned Shinki and all of the other PC-98 characters, Alice and Yuka were lucky enough to escape with nothing but a warning

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649684
>>4649675
Everything inside the border is part of Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649674
Did that work for you in SA with Reimu/Yukari?

[1st Duke of Trolls No.]

Yuyuko wins.
End of discussion.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649693
good thing makai isnt inside the border

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649688
Alice and Yuuka and Mima, you mean.

[Anonymous No.]

For power level threads like this there a rule for who wins: Whoever attacks first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649693
Keep going. Post enough and pretty soon we'll all know that you don't know what you're talking about.

[1st Duke of Trolls No.]

>>4649719
This.
Most girls instagib each other anyways, so the one to strike first wins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649686
[citation needed]

No really how do you know that shit when the game isn't translated?

[Anonymous No.]

On most browsers, you can bring up your browsing history by pressing Control-H. On Firefox, this brings up a sidebar that shows up on the left side of the window. If you put your mouse over the edge of the sidebar, the cursor will turn into a different kind of arrow. By clicking and dragging it, you can move the edge of the sidebar back and forth. You are, to put it another way, manipulating the border between the normal window and the history window. By moving the mouse, you can increase the portion of the window devoted to either part. In a more extreme view of this situation, you're increasing or decreasing the amount of existence the sidebar has.

Now, let's apply this idea to something more abstract. Look out your window. If you don't live in a highly urbanized area, you should be able to see the horizon. Think of this as the border between the land and the sky. The land and sky are obviously distinguishable thanks to this boundary. Now, if you were to "drag" the sash between the sky and the land, or to manipulate the border between land and sky, you would end up causing the sky to become larger and the land to become smaller, or vice versa. An effect of this might be to cause something that was just on the ground to suddenly be hundreds of feet in the air. Truly a frightening situation to be in. So, look at it this way - manipulating the border between two physical things shifts whatever balance there is in the interaction between those things. Alternatively, by manipulating the border between two things, you can change the manner in which they exist.

[Anonymous No.]

Just about every Touhou could beat each other, power levels mean pretty much nothing.

Remilia could just change the fate so she could win.
Sakuya could just stop time and annihilate.
Keine could just hide the enemy, or on a full moon, erase them from existence.
Yuyuko could just invoke them to death.
etc. etc.

Problem is most Touhou's have a fucking huge ego, so they don't use their 'powers' since they don't need them to defeat anyone, in their minds anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

Still, this isn't *that* abstract, since it's still dealing with real things in the real world. Many believe that in this world, there are those things that are true, and those that obviously aren't. This divides reality into two extremes: truth and falsehood. But, since we have two extremes, logically one can imagine a boundary between those two extremes - the border between truth and lies. If one were to manipulate this border, suddenly things that were pure fantasy (flying pigs, for the sake of argument) have become reality - or things from reality have ceased to exist. This is how Yukari is said to have invaded the moon - by manipulating the border between truth and lies, as applied to the reflection of the moon on a pond, she was able to make the reflection of the moon into a manifestation of the actual moon, and so send her youkai army onto it. This is what's truly amazing about Yukari's power - the ability to manipulate the border between completely abstract concepts allows her to fundamentally change reality as we know it (at least in terms of two abstract concepts).

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649732
Touhouwiki has a translation.

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4649734
Where the fuck did you come from?

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649732
you dont need a translation to see how the background changed into a city on flames after Devil's Recitation

[Thoughtless Celestial No.]

>>4649688
Which reminds me, why was keine so cruel towards rin?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649744
I wonder how old this pasta is.
I remember it existed since before there was a /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>Devil's Recitation

What's that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649719
>>4649730
That generally works, but not if you have instant defense or immortality. Then we have to get creative.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649750
Where the fuck did YOU come from?

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649734
wow it had been two years since i last saw that pasta

[Anonymous No.]

if yukari removes the border of individuals, would they turn into tang like on end of evangelion?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649721
Oh, can you tell me why it isn't?

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649782
Makai is a separate universe
Gensokyo has a cave that leads into makai

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649754
No really they were fighting in a specific part of Makai (pandemonium) so while the fire blazed in pandemonium it may not have touched other parts of the realm. Also how would you know she was holing back?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649674
Wouldn't Yukari tire herself before? She seems kind of the lazy type. She has to sleep a lot after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649766
You best be trollin'

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4649792
>Also how would you know she was holing back?
you got me there
we need a translation for that damn game

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649773
It doesn't matter.

In terms of power character with such huge powers whoever attacks first win. Since all their abilities are instant somehow.

And what matters is the danmaku, battles between characters are set in the touhou universe via danmaku and danmaku only and they can only MIX their abilities to their danmaku skills and not rely only on those powers alone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649791
Why'd you answer him? you could have let him flounder a bit.

Don't be so quick to give info to idiots who don't know what they're talking about but still want to feel important. Now he's probably going to try to save face by rationalizing his initial point.

If he wants to know shit there are the games and the wiki. Let him research it himself and allow me to call him stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649804
I thought that was The Homily.

[MolesterJim No.]

>>4649566
You cannot compare High Level cosmic entities outside of their own setting.
The only winner is the fan that whines more.
They do not even 'fight'.
You are trekking the path of the retard.
A warning.

[Anonymous No.]

Use a better picture of Shinki at least.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649838
But shinki and yukari are from the same game....

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649868
>>4649838
>their own setting.
Same game, yes, but different settings.

[Anonymous No.]

Alice and Yuka also have ultimate magic. Would that mean they are actually stronger than Yukari?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649880
Maybe all three just bullshit like all hell when talking about their magic and none of them have 'the ultimate magic'.

[1st Duke of Trolls No.]

>>4649880
Thats why Yuuka is regarded as one of the most dangerous youkai.
Flowers are more of a spleen of her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649880
Doesn't means that Alice knows how to use the full potential of it, or if she even wants to since is stated that she always holds back in her battles.

And about Yuuka... well, Yuka IS among the most powerful entities of gensokyo

[/d/eviating Ca/tg/irl No.]

>>4649889

Marisa stole it, and does not even know what she has. The others have been lying their asses off ever since.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649945
no
that Marisa was killed

[MolesterJim No.]

>>4649871
The problem is, he is listing /jp/'s (not touhou only) cosmic entities, and most likely pit them against any other omnipotent force in media.
That is the problem.

[/d/eviating Ca/tg/irl No.]

>>4650007

She then stole another body. She's such a thief~

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649889
Alice made her own dream world with the ultimate magic
Shinki should be pretty fucking obvious she has it
Yuka is one of the most powerful beings in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649937

First of all we haven't seen the real Alice since Mystic Square. The one we see is most likely just a doll. The real one live in the dream world she created in the basement of her house.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650045

Inb4 Marisa is actually a hat youkai.

[/d/eviating Ca/tg/irl No.]

>>4650219

OH GOD. IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650169
yes, I'm not alone
but i say Alice is in the silo like section of the house

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650007
Someone explain to me why people think the PC-98 Marisa is dead? That makes as much sense as the PC-98 Reimu being the window reimu's mom.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650169
>>4650316

[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650397
why is it that only Yuka took the ultimate magic and not someone else?

its most likely that the extra stages of mystic square took place one after the other (Alice fighting each protagonist independently )
Yuka was the last to fight Alice in the extra stage, which means that Alice defeated the others

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650482
Doesn't make sense. In further games there is dialogue with Yuka about the past (Reimu and Yuka mention their battle, with Reimu saying "I'll beat you again like I did before" on Yuka's route on PoFV)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650639
implying Yuka's route was canon.

[Anonymous No.]

or what if Reimu's memories are passed on through one successor to the other

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650757
How can it not be?

[Anonymous No.]

Let's just say that the Numidium activated during the events of Mystic Square, causing the Windows series when it interacted with the Ultimate Magic and everyone's scenario and Extra stage became canon.

Later, the Numidium would finally return to Gensokyo as Hisoutensoku aka Moriya Shrine's Akulakhan.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4650482
uhh no
Alice got the Grimoire and planned a revenge against the heroines
tried to beat yuka first, dropped the book in the middle of the fight, Yuka got it, learned the ultimate magic and ta daa
>>4650639
I dont see how that doesnt make sense
Yuka was beaten by Reimu in LLS
>>4650757
all pofv routes are canon

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650902
then why was Alice boasting about the ultimate magic in other fights also

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650902
That's what I'm trying to say. If Alice had killed the other 3 heroines and fought Yuka last and lost to her then there would be no point of that dialogue.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4650929
which other fights?
PCB? she got the book back

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650964
the other fights in Mystic Square

[Anonymous No.]

the extra stage

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651028
we stop discussing Yukari awhile ago

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4650976
what fights?
in stage 3 all she does is politely ask the heroine to stop being so violent and then fights her

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651044
I was not able to find it on time...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651045
i'm talking about the extra stages

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4651081
only Yuka's is canon

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651092
why is that?

[Anonymous No.]

Shinki > Eirin > Toyohime > Kaguya > Yorihime > Kanako > Suwako > Yukari

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4651103
ZUN stated it

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651212
where?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4650639

At least few years passed between MS and EotSD. And some time passed between EotSD and PoFV. Considering Yuka is one of the most powerful and well known (feared) youkai it's very likely new Reimu fought her after MS. Everybody in Touhou fought few times with each other.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651389
this is just speculation then, can't rely on that.

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4651114
>Kanako > Shinki > Eirin > Toyohime > Kaguya > Yorihime > Suwako > Yukari

Fix'd

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651114

>Shinki = Eirin = Toyohime = Kaguya = Yorihime = Kanako = Suwako = Yukari = Suika = Yuka = Alice = Flandre = Shikieiki

Fix'd.

[Anonymous No.]

You guys are aware that this is a thread that discusses logic about a world created by a japanese guy who is drunk 90% of the time, right?

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4651476
True....

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651476
You are aware this is /jp/, right?

[Anonymous No.]

You guys overrate Yukari too much.

Remilia and Keine could easily win Yukari.

[Anonymous No.]

delete /jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651114
>shinki
>post byakuren

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651476
You are aware that Gensokyo was created by countless others and not just ZUN, right?

[/d/eviating Ca/tg/irl No.]

>>4651028

..I knew she was broken....but...my god.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651577
...

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4651230
kyoh Gyoku
Yuka's profile
>>4651415
Kanako isn't even EX-Tier

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4651595
So? There are NO RULES in Gensoukyou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651573
You are aware this is a powerlevels thread, right?

[Anonymous No.]

All last bosses and EX stage bosses are so close in power they could beat each other. It's not a retarded shonen anime with power levels set in stone with measurable power points.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649621
How rude. I can't believe you started a powerlevel debate without me. If my memory serves me correctly, didn't our last debate end with you begging for a cease fire.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651595
Sorry but I need to learn more about this Kyoh Gyoku, the wikia don't bring anything up.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4651599
go back to desuchan or whichever shithole you spawned from

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4651639
your memory serves wrong
the last time you were trying to deny the ultimate magic and failed
i like to pretend im beato or something

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649644
>Shinki has 'the ultimate magic'.
As always, the ultimate magic myth that was single handily created by Suigin's propaganda machine is up and running at full steam. What point of Shinki is a goddess do you guys fail to understand? She used her god hax to create makai. Not by using some spell book. Even ZUN himself stated he didn't know what it does.

To Suigin, find ONE quote where it says she used the ultimate magic to create makai.

[Anonymous No.]

Touhou powerlevel pyramid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649566
UFO Stage 5:

You're flying over Makai. What you see below are islands upon islands resting upon an ocean.

And you're a couple miles high in the air, because you're breaking through cloud cover.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649566
A good comparison for Shinki is to compare creating her own domain in the same vein that the Chaos Gods create their own domains.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649672
Makai is outside of Gensokyo just as the Lunar Capital is outside of Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

Why are you arguing over the power levels of characters from a doujin shmup series?

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4651655
Actually I won this argument so fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

That doesn't means Yuka can actually use ultimate magic the same way Shinki did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651713
Because it's fun. If we had better things to do we wouldn't be wasting our time away on /jp/, now would we?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651667

Kanako and Suwako are also goddesses and I don't remember them being able to create worlds. On the contrary, they needed believers or their powers would weaken. Shinki created a whole world full of devoted believers for herself.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4651667
>What point of Shinki is a goddess do you guys fail to understand?
it's so simple
so~ simple
the other goddesses in the series cant create their own universes
please understand that PLEASE

[Anonymous No.]

Yukari is overrated. She is just an immortal spirit with a cool power, she isn't the one true goddess of Gensokyo or whatever so many make her out to be. She's like a dragon; ancient, knowledgeable, and powerful, but dragons can be beat.

Shinki however created Makai. I don't really think that needs a further explanation. The power to create from nothing is God-tier. And not Lesser God-tier like Kanako and Suwako, etc. Greater God-tier, like Zeus or Hades. There is nothing higher than that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651764
But you do have better things to do, like playing the games themselves, or playing a different game, or masturbating.

[Anonymous No.]

Can someone tell me what kyoh gyoku is? I really want to learn more about it and can't find anything on google except for random crap.

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4651767
I'm a believer. That's more than enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651781
And how can someone like that be defeated by a Shrine Maiden, Magician, Youkai or Ghost?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651778
To create a universe, you first need to gather absurd amounts of faith in a different universe. If she'd stayed in her home universe instead of abandoning it, she would not have faded into obscurity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651811
Shinki was doomed by her own hubris...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651804
Same way Ryu defeated the Goddess in BoF3.
It had to happen for the sake of the game.
Main heroines Reimu and Marisa = Transcending God, Time, Space, Love and the Human Mind -tier

Don't try and rationalize that part.

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4651819
Antigone, much?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651782
I do play the games, fuck off and hang yourself with that troll shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651785

Google Seihou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651778
Wow, what weak sauce. I thought you were going to come out with something strong.

>it's so simple
>so~ simple
>the other goddesses in the series cant create their own universes
>please understand that PLEASE
You know very well that in Shinto mythology, all gods are NOT created equally. From Amaterasu (the sun god) to Tsukuyomi (the moon god) all gods are different in power and in rank. I'm still waiting for a citation.

[Anonymous No.]

What I love about Touhou is that even if you create a character with the power to transform all the oxygen in the planet into doughnuts it will still manifest in the form of colorful bullets and said character can still be defeated by a character with a lame power like THE POWER TO FLY

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651841

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651873
Doesn't matter how strong they were a thousand years ago, ZUN updates that shit. No belief = no power.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651873
Also, that might be Shinki's limit.

Shinto gods usually only have one power. And even the ones like Amaterasu that have the ability to create -- they still can be killed/defeated. Remember, just because you have the ability to create a dimension does not mean you're immortal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651892
Reimu uses her power to fly above REALITY ITSELF. Don't disrespect it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651892
The power to fly is not a lame power. I'd take it.

Just look at this miko flying around right here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651892
There are a select few who can defeat Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

Ancillary, but still canon, Touhou material suggests that gods and youkai are basically the same thing and both survive only in a place of belief (faith). It makes sense. Gods look for faith; "youkai" inspire fear.

Additionally, it's already been established that humans can become youkai through a lot of hard work and research, one would say gaining an incredible degree of specialization in one field or other. Why else can we say that Patchouli is a "sorceress youkai" and Alice is a "puppeteer youkai?" and then there are tsukumogami which are literally object youkai.

>>4651926
Faith is power. Belief is power. The kami were once normal people who became incredibly good at what they do.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>only Yuka's is canon
Just because Yuka obtained the "ultimate magic" (as said by ZUN) doesn't mean that only her Extra route is canon.
Actually, no matter which route is "canon", a character wouldn't say something she couldn't possibly say in the "canon" route.

>EX-Tier
This "EX" is highly ambiguous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652036
Patchouli was BORN a magician unlike Alice or Marisa.

[Anonymous No.]

To the people that have participated in this debate, Suigin is good at manipulating the truth. But now that I'm here his ass is mine. On a whim I decided to let him get away with the "ultimate magic" myth in the last debate. But this time things will be different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651934
Why did Reimu not use this power in SSiB. Moonbitch can't touch this!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4649564
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[Anonymous No.]

>>4652057
Alice was born a magician, but she was also born as a human and became a magician through training. She is oftentimes seen holding doll shows in the human village and she never holds shows in the human village.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652061
There is no truth. Only an endless well of fictions springing from a common source.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652071
So you're better at calling gods than I am, eh? I'll just have to beat you without any!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651028
So the portal gun is broken?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652080
...

[Anonymous No.]

Where are you hiding Suigin? Get out here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652078
Go read what PMiSS says about magicians and Alice and Patchy profiles

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4652116
He's too busy trolling other newfags.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652121
I wouldn't have been able to write that if I hadn't already read PMiSS, profiles and SaBND.
Perhaps, you're missing some information?

[Anonymous No.]

Powerlevels in touhou have steadily gone down since MoF. I mean look at all the powers of the new youkai with the exception of a couple they're pretty fucking stupid. Look at the new chick from Double Spoilers

[Anonymous No.]

>Go read what PMiSS
YHBT

[Anonymous No.]

148 posts or so and know one has said anything about who is stronger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652187
Nuclear fusion and manipulating your subconscious seem pretty broken to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652187
Nuclear Fusion isn't power?

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4652200
I has already told you who's stronger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652211
>>4652214
Damn, I'm too slow.
But yea the power to invoke and manipulate nuclear fusion at will is pretty fucking awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652009

Get out bitch. You won because they were all taking it easy.

And Reimu lost many times in canon. Actually she loose like 50% of her battles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652153

Alice wasn't born a magician. It's clearly stated.

[Anonymous No.]

Aya > all

Problem?

[Anonymous No.]

On topic: Bonudary between victory and defeat... yeah.

Off-topic: Post more yatagarasu expy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652257
Everyone except Sakuya tried their best.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652187
You kidding? Shou is hax-tier, Byakuren is buff-hax tier, Kogasa WILL surprise you, Koishi is quite possibly the most hax touhou in existence... I could go on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652442

You mean Sakuya and Reimu. And Remilia was kicking her ass until she dropped her umbrella and Yorihime summoned the greatest shinto goddess, who also happen to create sunlight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652478
That rainbow-arc card Kogasa used in Double Spoiler really surprised the fuck out of me at first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652214
>>4652211
>>with the exception of a couple

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652478
What showings of power do they have?

[Anonymous No.]

um..."Shiki can kill Servants" hurr

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4652116
aaaaaaaaaah RO sapped away my attention span for the last few hours
>>4651811
however Alice was able to create her own universe without any faith at all, why is that?
>>4651873
>You know very well that in Shinto mythology, all gods are NOT created equally. From Amaterasu (the sun god) to Tsukuyomi (the moon god) all gods are different in power and in rank.
exactly
however Alice was able to create a universe without being a goddess or anything, that proves it had to be done out of magic, not goddess hax
>>4652051
>Just because Yuka obtained the "ultimate magic" (as said by ZUN) doesn't mean that only her Extra route is canon.
We all know the characters well
if Reimu had gotten it she would have sealed the book away and we would have never heard of the grimoire again
if Mima had gotten it we would be seeing her in another game as a villain
if Marisa had gotten it she would be a youkai magician (or something way stronger than she is)
> To the people that have participated in this debate, Suigin is good at manipulating the truth. But now that I'm here his ass is mine. On a whim I decided to let him get away with the "ultimate magic" myth in the last debate. But this time things will be different.
I wouldn't have it any other way
try to deny the existence of the Ultimate Magic

[Anonymous No.]

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4652884

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

And in the End......

SHINKI IS STRONGER THAN YUKARI.

/thread

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

aaaahh woe is on aaaaaaaah

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4652996
F U.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4652869
>however Alice was able to create her own universe without any faith at all, why is that?
Nice try Suigin. You seem to be under the impression that this "ultimate fanwank" of yours has the ability to do whatever it wants. Sadly for you, that's just not the case. This isn't the first time you've ranted about Alice having some type of god power. Those youkai you fought in PCB. They were just lifeless dolls. Not youkai. It is stated in PM that Alice DOES NOT have the ability to create living dolls [1]. Quite the opposite. In "Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red" Alice told Aya that her objective in life was to create a doll that could move independently. Despite the fact that she's been trying to do this her whole life, she's never been able to create a living doll [2]. So much for your, "herf derf, the ultimate magic can create anything!!!1" Also, here's a little more fun facts for you.
-Alice can only control the dolls from a finite distance [1].
-Most of the dolls you fought in PCB stage 3 were placed there by Hina [1][3].
-Alice makes the dolls manually with her hands [1]. "But... but... I thought she could make it with her ultimate magic." No Suigin.

The problem here is that you're confusing a spell book (i.e., the ultimate magic) with Shinki's god hax. I'm only going to say this one more time so pay attention. Shinki is a goddess; consequently, she used her god hax to create makai. And by all means find quotes to the contrary.

I guess since you realized Yuka's inherent powers (read: flower petals) weren't enough to compete with Yukari's infinite power you decided to wing it with your UM rumors.

[1] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Alice_Margatroid

[2] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Article_and_Interview:_Alice

[3] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Hina_Kagiyama

It's pathetic really: http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp?task=search2&search_text=ultimate&search_usernam
e=Suigin

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4653226
I give up, you win. Yuka is no match for Yukari's boundary hax.

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

Like I said.

SHINKI BEATS YUKARI
/thread

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4653226
>Nice try Suigin. You seem to be under the impression that this "ultimate fanwank" of yours has the ability to do whatever it wants. Sadly for you, derpa derp durr hee hee
-Alice can only control the dolls from a finite distance [1].
I never talked about youkai in pcb i talked about them in MS extra, those cards are clearly alive
>-Alice makes the dolls manually with her hands [1]. "But... but... I thought she could make it with her ultimate magic." No Suigin.
yes she can
She holds back (Alice Margatroid's profile in PCB)
if a youkai loses interest in life this will die. She chose to do it the hard way since she is a young youkai and doesn't wish to disappear
Imagine starting a mmo, and suddenly you find an item a GM dropped called GM hat. Basically this gives you GM powers (max stats, levels, ability to spawn monsters and items at will)
You really wish to play this game the normal way.
What do you do?
yes you simply don't use that item
>The problem here is that you're confusing a spell book (i.e., the ultimate magic) with Shinki's god hax. I'm only going to say this one more time so pay attention. Shinki is a goddess; consequently, she used her god hax to create makai. And by all means find quotes to the contrary.
haha no
it's so simple
real simple
Shinki (goddess) created Makai
Alice (Youkai) created Wonderland (not once but TWICE (MS Extra and PCB stage 3)
the Card soldiers in MS Extra were Youkai
she didn't have such high ability as a puppeteer back in PC-98 (she could only control two dolls at the same time)

[Anonymous No.]

take this power level shit to #bunbunmaru, thanks

[Anonymous No.]

>>4651667
>>4652116
>>4653226
>>4652061
>>4653311
Man, are you obsessed, or what? I like to troll Suigin too but calm down anon. You're getting kind of scary.

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

"...And in the end...."♪

NO ONE WINS.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4653365
didnt i tell you to go back to desuchan? go back to desuchan

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4653373
Fuck you I can stay. Keep you're shitty threads though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4653336
To let you get away with such a weak rebuttal or to not let you get away with such a weak rebuttal. So many options; so little time.

>>4653352
Suigin is the one that started this. I thought we had an agreement to leave our opinions outside of the Yuka vs Yukari threads. Yet here [>>4649621] Suigin is spreading his propaganda.

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

I NEEDZ AND ANSWER ON THIS CONFUNDRUM NAOW!!!!
Stop the arguing and settle on an answer. And not a shitty one.

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4653404
counter it if you can

[Suigin !uMakai4iFA No.]

>>4653410
go back to desuchan

[Anonymous No.]

>>4653404
How is that propaganda?
Shinki would obviously win this matchup.
The only people who would disagree are Yukari-worshipers who overrate her powers.
Suigin may not have the best argument but the statement that Shinki could beat Yukari is hardly just an empty, biased, fantasy conjecture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4653438
>How is that propaganda?
It's propaganda because Suigin injected the "ultimate magic" clause into this debate that had nothing to do with it.

>Shinki would obviously win this matchup.
Perhaps but it's also highly likely that Yukari would win. Reimu defeated Shinki before the spellcard rules were put into place. Reimu couldn't even manage to defeat Yukari with the spellcard rules. Also, in the later half of the series Yukari practically becomes Reimu's mentor.

>Suigin may not have the best argument but the statement that Shinki could beat Yukari is hardly just an empty, biased, fantasy conjecture.
It's a close call at best. Without a doubt there are no youkai that are on par with Yukari (as mentioned multiple times in PM), but gods and goddesses on the other hand are a completely different story.

But getting back to Suigin, the only reason he participated in this debate was to take cheap shots at Yukari. Hence the reason why I called him out on his bullshit. And the best rebuttal he managed to cook up was "Alice could do anything if she wanted to but chooses not to because it would be boring for her." Weak.

[deleted !!b2lauPvC6UT No.]

>>4653420
I has a bird to show you. it's hilarious.