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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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4595556 No.4595556 [Reply] [Original]

Why can't the west have a doujin culture?

>> No.4595561

Soccer moms

>> No.4595563

>>4595556
Different copyright focus, mostly.

>> No.4595564

Western culture tries as hard as it can to douse creativity.

>> No.4595582

>>4595564
True

by the way scratching my back, feels good man

>> No.4595584

Because in the west, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down.

>> No.4595593

Credit whoring. Lawsuits. Unique snowflakes.

>> No.4595600
File: 8 KB, 226x397, andrewryan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4595600

>>4595564
THE PARASITES SAY "NOOO!!"

>> No.4595611

can't draw

>> No.4595773

Because every time someone post something original, on say, 4chan, people call it shit and tell them to stop.

Also lack of good artists. see: http://rule34.paheal.net/post/list/Drawn-Sex/1

>> No.4595788

because the authors would get sued so damn fast

>> No.4595805

>>4595788
Doujinshi can be original work as well you know.

>> No.4595832

Aren't you not even allowed to sell comics unless they're approved by some ratings board, like with movies?

>> No.4595835

Because America.

They've got a fucked up copyright system, and pretty much every western country is their bitch.

Hell, it extends even past that, they just don't like people getting free stuff. There's governments on their "Blacklist" just because they use Linux instead of OSX or Windows on their PCs, because Linux is free.

>> No.4595846

No trains to reach Kantoh in single day.

>> No.4595847

Because unlike the Japanese, Americans are more stingy in what they buy, and they will glance over the doujinshis and not give it a second thought.

>> No.4595850

If I could draw, I'd have a hard time thinking up anything I find interesting from "my own" culture I could use as base for my work.

Also; I don't like the idea that people would call it fanfiction.

>> No.4595852

Because the west has shitty artists.

>> No.4595860

For comics the market accepts nothing but web publication.

For game, we just call it "indie".

>> No.4595864

>>4595805

What keeps the doujin world going round are the derivative works, though. If copyright holders started going crazy after artists there wouldn't be much left to sell at comiket.

>> No.4595872

When you say doujin you probably mean anime doujinshi. They already have japanese doujinshi in that case. I'm sure other nerds like trekkies have their doujinshi, and there are underground comics, and there are also independent game scenes.

There will not be conventions because not everyone can get to some convention center. America is just too big.

>> No.4595880

Anyone has any experience with making doujinshi?
I'm pretty okay with drawing, but when it comes to paneling I can't comprehend it.

tl;dr
How do I draw panels?

>> No.4595883

There are lots of indie comic and animation festivals. They tend to be a little inundated with fine art faggotry for my tastes though.

>> No.4595905

>>4595872
>There will not be conventions because not everyone can get to some convention center. America is just too big.

Build more TRAINS

>> No.4595913

>>4595880
With a ruler?

srsly, study the basics of composition. I think panaling in itself is a "study".

>> No.4595919

>>4595905
OBAMA WANTS THOSE BULLET TRAINS BTW

CALLING IT, USCC1 IN SIX YEARS

>> No.4595921

The more socially repressed you are, the more creative and imaginative you get.

>> No.4595930

>>4595850
What is your culture?

America has all sorts of cool shit, like westerns, world wars, pioneer days, mysterious creatures.

Wait, okay.

Chupacabra, Bigfoot, Jackalope, and Thunderbird... are all sexy young women living with a wealthy young man in his New york penthouse.

>> No.4595939

>>4595872
>There will not be conventions because not everyone can get to some convention center.

What are you talking about? We have tons of conventions in America.

Also, lol trains.

>> No.4595957

>>4595905
The fuck would anyone train from Rhode Island to Chinafornia when they could fly so much quicker?

>> No.4595964

>>4595939
Yes, in California. Not so much in the mid, central, and south areas. There's probably north east ones but can't think of any

>> No.4595970

>>4595957

Prices

>> No.4595973

>>4595964
>Not so much in the mid, central, and south areas
go to /cgl/ and you'll find out there's cons everywhere

yes not all of them are that big, but still

>> No.4595974

>>4595913
I can see the images, the words, the scenes play in my mind, but when it comes to putting them into boxes I blank out.

>> No.4595986

>>4595921
But the west is full of repressed people subjugated by feminists and antipedo extremists. You'd think britian would be the new japan by now.

>> No.4596004

I believe law and other things are the bigest differance.
There is an indie market here in the west but it really is small.
All in all I believe that it is more expensive here in the west due to some petty laws, that both make it even less profitable (you usuallylose money, but that goes the same for doujin circles) than doujins, also more of a hassle.
It is a shame really.

>> No.4596013

>>4595974
Just make them as 4 panel comics or put them size by side like newspaper comics. Your comic doesn't need to have dynamic panels to be good. And definitely not if it isn't full of action.

As for how many should be on a page, each page should get out what you want to say/show on that page

>> No.4596056

>>4596013
that clears it up a bit,
thanks!

>> No.4596853

>>4595974
http://rs88.rapidshare.com/files/32861028/Understanding_Comics.cbr

Also, my rapidsharing things instead of pointing you to a place to buy the book is why the west will never have a dojin culture.

>> No.4596887

Meiling looks so cute in that pic

>> No.4596897

>>4595556
No one wants to draw, that's why.

>> No.4596904

>>4596887
that's haruka :(

>> No.4596927

>>4596904
I think it's Meiling.

>> No.4596951

>>4596904
Its Meiling. See the hat?

>> No.4596956

Westerners
-suck at drawing
-can't read

>> No.4596978
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4596978

>>4596853
Thank you!

>> No.4596982
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4596982

I tried but I gave up because doing things is hard

>> No.4596989
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4596989

>>4596887
>>4596904
>>4596927
>>4596951
haha, slightly change the context and any anime character can be an entirely different one

here's (a small resize of) the original

>> No.4596997

>>4596982
...is that captain olimar?

>> No.4597001

>>4596997

yes

>> No.4597058

Because a dojin model would have to compete with the webcomic model.

Also, in the circles of people who draw stuff, manga art is generally reviled as uninspired and bland, to be an artist you must "appropriate" it and "reinterpret" it and bring something "new" to the table.
That's why I think the prevalence of the typical "roundeyes does japtoons" uncanny-valley-ish feel in western drawings depends only on powerlevel, not on talent.

>> No.4597064

>>4596989
Don't worry, Meiling. I'll find your hat.

>> No.4597079

>>4596982
>page_10.jpg

stop trolling you.

>> No.4597083

We did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tijuana_bible

>> No.4597086

>>4597083
wow

>> No.4597091
File: 262 KB, 600x800, page_09 (unfinished).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4597091

>>4597079

This just in: things have pages

>> No.4597106

>>4597091
>>4596982
Wat.

>> No.4597115

>>4597083
While we're sharing semi-relevant wikipedia links, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_Thailand

I remember this was a ridiculously huge deal when it came to the attention of the French media, for more than a week you couldn't turn on a TV/Radio without hearing people demanding arrests and book burnings.

>> No.4597123

west = 90% shitty artists, 5% Furry (.5% of that 5 are good artists), 5% smart enough to keep it to themselves.

>> No.4597127

>>4597115
Wow, Tintin is serious business.

>> No.4597129

>>4597115
> It was deemed to have violated copyright laws and thus its publication is illegal.

this pretty much sums up the thread

>> No.4597163

For what it's worth some anime conventions do have area set aside for artists tables, but they usually end up selling individual pieces of work or on site commission as opposed to printed and bound doujinshi.

There are some artists that sell doujinshi they've made at conventions, but it's overshadowed by the rest of the things going on at the con(screenings, cosplay, video game room, vendors).

>> No.4597188

I'd Haruka's book

>> No.4597225
File: 363 KB, 1224x1632, 1244451165503.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4597225

Posting KS in a doujin thread.

>> No.4597249

>>4597127
Nevermind that the damn thing isn't even as half as interesting as Asterix ever was.

Try as I might, I don't thnk Tintin was even remotely decent.

>> No.4597257

>>4597225

reported hidden filtered called the police

>> No.4597267

ITT: KS FORUMS ATTENTIONWHORING

>> No.4597283
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4597283

>>4597267
>>4597257

>> No.4597284

>>4597163
I've sold doujinshi at a con before, nobody knew the fandom, so nobody bought it.

*DO NOT PICK OBSCURE FANDOMS, AS MUCH AS YOU LOVE THEM, THEY WILL NOT SELL*

>> No.4597293

>>4597284
Do not buy doujin of obscure characters either. The doujins you will find will be about fetishes you did not want to know existed.

I am a sad panda.

>> No.4597297

Free online distribution is the only thing that would work in the USA.

>> No.4597304

>>4597297
And even then you would get into legal trouble. I am sure of it.

>> No.4597311

>>4597304
Play the freedom of speech card.

>> No.4597328

>>4597311
"You have the freedom to pay me royalties, faggot. Pay up."

>> No.4597335

>>4596989
whyisntthistranslated.bmp

>> No.4597342

>>4597249
True, the story is only important because good or not, there's hardly anyone in french-speaking countries who hasn't read a few Tintin comics as a kid.
Hergé's estate is well-known for religiously fetishizing the original work, making ridiculous demands of licensees to ensure that no new elements can be added to the Tintin canon under any circumstances.
That's why the affair made so much noise, there was a serious 'our collective childhood has been raped' moral panic at that time.

>> No.4597340 [DELETED] 

>>4597304
If don't pick any licensed Characters/Anime/Manga I really doubt that.

>> No.4597346

>>4597304

If you don't pick any licensed Characters/Anime/Manga I doubt you would be hassled.

>> No.4597434

what are some sites where one can buy older doujins, I've found some on toranoana but they dont seem sell to international customers

>> No.4597441

>>4597434
>but they dont seem to sell to international customers

EQUALITY NOW BANZAI

>> No.4597448

The group head out to the red light district where they run into General Alcazar, now the owner of a Thailand bar after being deposed by General Tapioca. Alcazar has seen Jolyon Wagg pass through the bar, but he has gone north to Chiang Mai with a kathoey (transexual). Calculus and Haddock both hook up with prostitutes in the bar but Tintin prefers the company of a young man instead.


This is why people make a fuss.
Use the characters all you want but the idea of Tintin porn disgusts me.

>> No.4597460

>>4595556
>Why can't the west have a doujin culture?
East Asians are genetically superior to us when it comes to drawing. Our brains on average don't have what it takes to draw doujinshis. And combine that with our copyright laws and you can see why we're still on a fanfiction.net tier level.

>> No.4597476

Read a book called "The 10 cent plague"

See how fucked up American comic book publishers are.
Americans love to sue
Sue doctor
Sue wife
Americans think they deserve rights they don't
I test out your product but after fully using I don't like so here take it back and give me my money
Americans have shit taste
They imitate South Californian beach fags
Instead of accepting other cultures, they want other cultures to accept them
You go to germany you are expected to speak GERMAN, not english
Americans are fat and they bitch about it
Stop eating hamburgers
Jog a few laps
Holy shit I saved you thousands of dollars on diet books and gym membership
Americans are stupid and deceived by their opinionated news sources. Their media also purposefully doesn't focus on international issues.
Haha Iraq election success, make no mention of candidates being ASSASSINATED, or of 70 people dying the day of vote

>> No.4597487

>>4597476
>They imitate South Californian beach fags
>making the distinction between faggots in So. Cal and other california regiosn
Central Coast-er here, thank you. Nobody else believes me that the 3rd biggest state by area could be anything other than a completely homogenous vat of "surfer brohahs" and faggots.

>> No.4597494

>>4597091
>>4596982
Stop using those tones. They hurt.

>> No.4597509

>>4597476
>You go to germany you are expected to speak GERMAN, not english

Every foreigner that comes to America expects to be accommodated in their own language.

>> No.4597516

>>4597476
butthurt much?

>> No.4597533

>>4597487
California also has Chinese and Mexicans. It is not homogeneous at all. It also has LA or something that's full of black people and where everyone is shooting everything all the time.

>> No.4597605

>>4597533
Chinese and Mexicans are ubiquitous in California.

>> No.4597613

>>4597533
To be honest, California has everything going on.
Things would be better if corporate greed didn't outsource jobs to China and India, and the local jobs were not taken by Mexicans.

I mean honestly this country is faced with job loss and there are simply not a lot of fields for low-education workers locally.

>> No.4597618

>>4597605
I don't know about ubiquitous

I live in central, I think I've met 2 Chinese people in my entire life. And I use the term "met" loosely.

But Japanese? Easily hundreds. Koreans are somewhere in the middle.

>> No.4597623

>>4597613
Requiring local hiring for manufacturing and recycling can fix this. People will not pay the prices it will bring however.

>> No.4597626

>>4597618
My first real Job I had in Bakersfield was working for a Chinese guy. Where I live now ina tiny podunk town in the San Joaquin valley we have more Chinese than blacks.

>> No.4597632

>>4597613
Not to mention that society looks down upon low class workers. The simple truth is that everyone wants a lustrous job. But there simply aren't that many out there. Kids gather in shitloads of student loans and pick majors in shit that rarely gets used in the real world, then once school ends they're jobless and with debt they'll likely never pay off until they're in their late 30's early 40's.
The largest number of successful mathematicians and physicists in America work in Wall Street, computing complicated algorithms used to predict market flow, at the same time people bitch that the economy is getting better, banks are making money.

News flash: No it's not, banks will continue to make money regardless. Jobs are still declining, and any regulations the government puts in place is being circumvented by credit card companies and banks. Haha I love the idea that you can get charged on your credit card for NOT using your card, all in an effort to stop credit card companies from piling on debt on its customers.
America is a country of consumers. Retarded consumers with high social values and little understanding of what's really going on.

>> No.4597636
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4597636

I think it's a combination of Weeaboo bottom-feeders only commercially responding to shonen-battle series and the West's archaic notions regarding sexuality.

>> No.4597646

Think about it, man. Do you want it to happen?

Do you?

DO YOU?

>> No.4597647

>>4597623
the thing is though that the more shit gets outsourced the less companies have a market for their product. when nobody has jobs to pay for shit how do you as a producer sell your product?

>> No.4597651

Why would I want a US Comic book themed doujin?

>> No.4597654 [DELETED] 

>>4597647
But "Our next quarter number look great!"

>> No.4597668

>>4597647
But "Our next quarter numbers look great!"

>> No.4597669

>>4597654
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

>> No.4597672

>>4597632
>The only reason anyone does a major is for a job

From your post, I can assume you're American. People who do majors in academic subjects typically either do it out of wanting to learn the subject or from wanting to be an academic themselves. What you do highlight though is the major flaw in having to pay fees for these courses, students simply can't afford it, and it limits poorer members of society from going to university college.

Glad where I live the government pays for your first degree.

>> No.4597682

>>4597669
I am referring to how US Corporation's leadership looks at the future. They only look at what the stock is selling for and at the next quarter. They do not look 20 years down the road. They don't give a fuck about anything but next quarters results and what their stock options are worth. Everyone else can get fucked.

>> No.4597692
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4597692

>>4597672
From your post, I can assume you're a humanities major.

Not the guy you're replying to, and not American either.

>> No.4597694

What would happen if you made a doujinshi (nijisousaku based off of a pre-existing series, not original) and tried to sell it at an American con? Are there con rules against that? Or would the company holding the rights for the series in America come down on your ass first? Even if the Japanese creators allowed for doujin creation in Japan? What if the series wasn't even licensed in America, or was something doujin in the first place, like Touhou? Who would sue you then?

Just curious, because Americans always blame their copyright laws for holding them back from doing doujin, but I wonder if that isn't just an excuse. Has anyone every actually tried?

>> No.4597695

>>4597682
Well, the debt clock pretty much drives your point home.

>> No.4597703

>>4597692

Yes and no. Doing a joint degree (basically two at once). One in law and another in philosophy. I just get really annoyed when people look down on humanities or the arts, thinking degrees are only worthwhile if there's a job at the end of it. It's a very, very, sad state of affairs.

>> No.4597711

>>4597672

At the end of the day, speaking from experience here, all the 'intellectual' types still gravitate towards academic degrees, but equally you get some layabouts who go in because they can't think of anything better to do. They usually drop out by the end of the second year though.

>> No.4597715

>>4597695
That isn't driving that debt. It the lack of political will to say no and stop shit that doesn't work that drives the debt you see on that clock. Different pathology.

>> No.4597720

>>4597694
I'm no expert in copyright law, but I know america has it's "fair use clause", where works of parody, etc. are specifically allowed. Just don't do disney characters because they have the legal muscle to do whatever they want.

I really think the lack of doujin culture is due to Americans being too suspicious and unfriendly/antisocial to congregate with other fans.

Also internet has almost replaced conventions.

>> No.4597724

>>4597703
(I am an American) and that is what I'm told to believe. People want money, and they think college/uni will give them that.

Would I love to learn about philosophy and astronomy? Fuck yes I would, but education is just too fucking expensive to even bother.

>> No.4597734

>>4597720
And I forgot to mention that doujin is all about NOT making a profit.
In America, doing something that doesn't get you money is viewed as a hobby at best, stupid at worst.

>> No.4597744

>>4597734
And yet we're all in fucking arms giving donations to Haiti/Chile/sandniggers/wateverelsehaveyou, practically giving our money away.

Go figure.

>> No.4597742 [DELETED] 

Try getting a "good job" in a field that really doesn't require a degree without one.

A degree is demanded for stuff that isn't technical they you have to learn on the job anyway. This is the fault of Corporate America.


If a Subject isn't licensed no one has a reason to sue. Avoid licensed stuff and you will not get sued.

>> No.4597749

>>4597724
>Would I love to learn about philosophy and astronomy? Fuck yes I would, but education is just too fucking expensive to even bother.

Minor/double major in what you truly want to learn about. It's really not much more than a single major, unless you're paying on a class by class basis.

>> No.4597752

>>4597724

Well it should be fairly obvious what they say is wrong. (almost) All of these subjects are valuable to society, though America seems to encourage everyone to just become generic worker bees, for some reason, and places no value on culture or knowledge for its own sake.

>> No.4597756

>>4597744
Borrowing money to give away to people that hate us. Borrowing money to keep Israel afloat. Pure stupidity.

>> No.4597758

>>4597752

Long live capitalism

>> No.4597767

>>4597734
>And I forgot to mention that doujin is all about NOT making a profit.
It's a billion dollar industry. You couldn't be more wrong. And fair use does not apply to doujin tier sampling.

>> No.4597776

>>4597752

Sorry, but you're expecting academia to be accepted in America of all places? Those stereotypes come from somewhere, you know.

>> No.4597865
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4597865

>doujin is all about NOT making a profit.

>> No.4599917 [DELETED] 
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4599917

>> No.4600868

>>4597672
>Glad where I live the government pays for your first degree.

Canadian here, ;_;

>> No.4600880

>>4595556
We do. They're called Deviantart and Newgrounds.

>> No.4600920
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4600920

>>4597756
Say that to /new/ fucker not online and see what happens.

>> No.4600934

>>4600920
/new/ is full of idiots that don't know shit about the reality of politics

>> No.4600935

I love propaganda campaigns this is why I love America because it has some really good ones.

>> No.4600941
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4600941

>>4600934
That was my point. The people in power are the same as /new/.

>> No.4601005

>>4595556
doujin culture as it exists in japan will never exist in the west.

>>4597083
I like this bit:
>Joe Shuster illustrated a Tijuana bible-styled erotic work called Nights of Horror in the early 1950s; his male characters are strongly reminiscent of Superman, and some of his female characters resemble Lois Lane.

joe shuster is one of the creators of superman

>> No.4602020

I wish I could make a living off of drawing lolicon ;_;

>>
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