Grimsokyo

[Anonymous No.]

What is your honest opinion on Grimsokyo? To be honest, it always seemed an interesting premise to me that the girls are monsters taking on a human-like form on purpose of duping humans (mostly outsiders), although it can get a little bit edgy when taken too far, I feel like it is mindlessly hated on despite capturing the essence of Gensokyo being an old, ancient land permanently stuck in the dark past where monsters thrived on superstitions

[Anonymous No.]

I prefer cutesokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
I feel it's too easy to overdo the premise. I'd really like a nice, solid story without going crazy with the edge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
faggot shit and just outright insulting to the characters, the inumerous literature works and zun, kys

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
The Canon Gensokyo, a wasteland where mercy doesn't exists.
Kappas hate you
Tengus hate you
Onis hate you
Satoris hate you
Youkais HATE you

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715863
*
"hate" means "want to rape".

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715786
If you are a villager
>>45715863
If you are a outsider

end of the discussion

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
I've been told I write Grimsokyo before for making reference to the fate of normal outsiders (having it be used to threaten an outsider specifically), and that was one thing that convinced me most Grim/Cutesokyo discourse is fucking stupid. I do like Gensokyo with an undercurrent of darkness and to me it's obnoxious when it completely hijacks everything else (see Zounose), as much as I think it's not Gensokyo where all the girls are just silly and cute and nothing bad happens. However, big fan of the girls really being inhuman monsters taking on the forms of attractive humans for their own reasons. Adds a nice layer of depth to them if you piss off the little girl and she drops the "maybe you'd like to see what I really look like" line.

[Anonymous No.]

I prefer Mediumsokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715786
Gensokyo's awful to everyone involved, including youkai.
PMiSS is becoming less and less canon with time...

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
still WOULD.

[Anonymous No.]

What are the similarities between American politics and Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
Everything in moderation. Some people take the edgefest too far though. My take on it is that bad things can and do happen, but it's not the oppressive and bleak "north korea slaughterhouse" some make it out to be. Outsiders get the short end of the stick for sure, but they can survive, they can make it to safety, and some of them choose to stay and become residents. The keyword is choose, they can leave Gensokyo and return home yet some of them decide to abandon their old life and settle there. That alone speaks volumes for the quality of living.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
I wouldn't mind it as much if it wasn't canon.
Before I read official printworks, I just assumed it was an alternative interpretation, and only looked into grim stuff when it interested me, but now that I know how it is in canon it takes priority in my mind simply for being canon. and I hate it. Now whenever I read fanworks, and those usually lean toward cute, I always have to do some mental gymnastics to figure out whether it's just the author's reinterpretation of things or does he actually believe it's this nice in canon as well. Really wish I could stop doing that, but canon grimshit just can't leave me alone. At least some people are considerate enough to state it in front, so I can relax somewhat, like >>45717979.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45718055
Do you ever think about how that tone is mostly unique to print works? The games and other canon material don't usually depict Gensokyo in such a gloomy way. It's mostly banter and spell card duels between characters of all kinds.
I personally chalk it up to ZUN's lack of ability to find a balance between wholesome interactions and his inherently dark setting in a more cohesive format.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45718264
It does feel that way. I did start with the games, and from them, the few interviews I've read and PMiSS it really did feel like the characters being unhinged serial killers was just them playing pretend, and that they're mostly chill out of it. It's still true to some extent, but the printworks put it all in a much different context. Especially how characters behave outside of games, it feels like they're worse in printworks.
Maybe if ZUN was better at showing that in games, and didn't make those contradictory statements in early interviews, maybe fans like me wouldn't have wrong expectations about the setting.

[Anonymous No.]

Actual panels in official manga depicting dead humans killed by youkai, mentions of dead corpses being found in CoLA, multiple characters being confirmed as having killed humans, Yukari confirming she kidnaps random nobodies from the outside to serve as food in place of villagers and retards here still insist that grimm stuff doesn't happen in gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>45718361
I think PMiSS and SoPM are a nice sweetspot in tone. There's a lot of playing around and levity, but a little bit of reality underneath reminding you that this is a place with the OG mythological monsters. They play around but you're not ever 100% certain enough that they won't cross the line, there is still too many unknowns. In the Village you don't have to worry as much, as long as you don't do something you wouldn't do to another Human, you're safe. Respect Youkai when you see them and treat them politely, but never let your guard down. A good analogy is to imagine that you're a zookeeper in the tiger exhibit, you're comfortable enough to be around them and even play with them, but they're still tigers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45718461
Yeah, I wish it was more like that. Canon right now is around 60-70% grim I'd say, especially since the introduction of this whole "human zoo" narrative in 2010s (really hate that one). Not exactly the middle ground that I was promised by some fans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45718461
It's pathetic in my opinion, humans in the village open shops to youkai, have to treat youkai like their elder masters and put up with the occasional mischief that they cause for jackshit reason, they owe no debt to the youkai and the youkai don't do anything to them in return

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
Canon regardless of how many times people cry about it

[Anonymous No.]

>>45718518
There was already a mention of humans not being allowed to grow out of their relationship with the youkai as early as BAiJR. If that doesn't sound like a pro-youkai bs then I don't know what does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45720842
Gensokyo exist for youkai and is a paradise for them, humans are second-class citizens
You can compare it to how the royalty/nobility in the middle ages needed the peasants to do the labor for them to live in luxury, in here it is human service to youkai prestige

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
>What is your honest opinion on Grimsokyo?
It's arguably more canon than cutesokyo but I still feel it misses the point. Touhou is dark, but not grimdark. Important difference.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45718461
PMISS and SoPM are leagues apart in tone. The former is way, WAY lighter than the latter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45720842
Touhou has gotten significantly darker since BAiJR. So I actually don't think it's in universe propaganda.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721478
the latter is also from the perspective of the scheming fuck trifecta (miko, kanako and byakuren) and should not be taken as actually representative of what normal people are like
all of the actual youkai articles and newspaper stories are pretty much the same in tone as PMiSS

[Anonymous No.]

So what's stopping youkai of just kill every human on the village? Couldn't all of them just join forces and genocide the entire human race?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721697
>Couldn't all of them just join forces and genocide the entire human race?
Guns exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721697
committing suicide would be one reason

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721606
>the latter is also from the perspective of the scheming fuck trifecta (miko, kanako and byakuren) and should not be taken as actually representative of what normal people
Sure, but I think they are fairly honest about what Gensokyo is like in those conversations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
>it always seemed an interesting premise to me that the girls are monsters taking on a human-like form on purpose of duping humans
I honestly think a bit different, that they look how we see them to the people of Gensokyo, but their true forms are closer to how the outside world presented them
It would be much easier to push the human-youkai coexistence if both sides were cgdct

>>45716097
>see Zounose
Funnily enough the man himself does heavily involve the point >>45715786 quoted
It's just that the humies in his Gensokyo are much more militant, and Reimu for some reason utterly incompetent

>>45721697
Gap hag will throw them out before Reimu gets a chance to use her 'fuck you I win' ability
Remember that the spell card contract was also meant to make Reimu's loss possible because she can't just Musou Tensei everyone

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721732
yeah except the three of them combined had less experience in gensokyo than marisa did at that point

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721741
>Funnily enough the man himself does heavily involve the point >>45715786 quoted
Yeah, but he also doubles down on how awful Gensokyo is. The human villagers, basically the one unambiguously good group, are way worse and even already very bad groups like the Tengu even worse.

>>45721742
I guess? I don't think they lie though, and I don't see much evidence to see they are wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721697
The villagers provide them sustenance, a better question would be why don't they forcefully impose their existence to the Outside World and cause havoc to gain more belief and power
Spiritual beings are spiritual beings afterall, I bet you a youkai could survive from a nuke but shit the entirety of their existence in front of a jesus cross, that's how they work

There's also the danger that abrahamic religions would try to define them as something else than what they originally are, but that can be circumvented via selective propaganda

[Anonymous No.]

>>45722213
>a better question would be why don't they forcefully impose their existence to the Outside World
Maybe for the same reason most of them fucked off to Gensokyo to begin with? Even the strongest supernatural beings like Kanako were struggling, imagine poor umbrella girl there

[Anonymous No.]

>>45722267
I've thought out about this and I've realized it's not an actual reason, some youkai are capable of travelling to the Outside World and survive, Yukari, Nue and few others are such examples, the villagers already give them sustenance from the other side so there isn't any reason to assume they will instantly disappear along with their powers, Yukari could become the goddess-empress of humanity in the Outside World with all of us under her mercy and there would be nothing preventing it

[Anonymous No.]

>>45722370
"Yukari could become the goddess-empress of humanity in the Outside World with all of us under her mercy and there would be nothing preventing it"
Yukarifags are more delusional than SDMfags

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
Would be nice if it was more explored in fanart imo. Since afaik there's no dark 2hu fangame aside from 3rd eye, can kinda understand it since games require a lot of time and such. Exploring the story of an outsider might be interesting too, so I think there's some not so explored potential without having to go full "killing people makes a gud story just because XD".
>>45716209
I would rather take rare or medium raresokyo.
>>45722370
Just like in most settings you don't really know how stuff works aside from vague stuff, it's hard to know if getting there with meta knowledge would make you easily break the system or if there's a good reason why nobody has figured out how to get unlimited magic power or whatever.
In Yukari's case she has limits, like (the most defined one) of only being able to make a moon-earth gap in the full moon, I recommend checking SSiB and CiLR, you can check in which order each chapter goes in the wiki's timeline.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Release_Timeline
I think there isn't any specific reason given aside from nobody wanting to try to conquer outside territory, but who knows maybe the buddhist temples and shrines of the outside world are enough to stop youkai from getting out of a specific area of Japan or have some other specific limitations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
my beloved daughterpetwife Rumia is so cute

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636

[Anonymous No.]

Many years have passed since the creation of Gensokyo. For more than a century, the human villagers and their society have been trapped inside Gensokyo. They are the legendary warriors that protected humanity from that which dwells in the dark, masters of legendary weapons and capable of superhuman feats. They have been reduced to little more than cattle, no longer allowed to even have leadership by their youkai overlords. They are the humans of Gensokyo, and thousands of outsider souls are sacrificed ever year so that they may never truly die.

Yet even in this state, brave and foolish souls continue their eternal battle. Mighty magicians learn dark secrets and face impossible danger, the only way for them to obtain power, their only true ally being Rinnosuke, a virgin nerd obsessed with the outside world. Clever Taoists seek enlightenment and the means to ascend to a higher plane of existence. Greatest among them being Miko, Prince Shōtoku, a ancient ruler who awaits the day she is called to action by the villagers. Their comrade in arms are legion: wise and benevolent goddesses and their followers, the ever vigilant youkai exterminators and the were beasts of legend to name only a few. But for all of their multitudes, they are barely enough to make a difference when faced against the ever present threat from Youkai, fallen priests, evil gods, vampires - and worse.

To be a human in such times is to be little more than livestock. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forgot the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, and little travels through the barrier. Forgot the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark of a land ruled by youkai there is only suffering and pain. There is no peace between human and monster, only a eternity of repression and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
it's canon

[Anonymous No.]

>>45730970
Yes. So?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45730970
Canon is always an interesting thing because we derive that very word from the process of sorting through the collective works of many authors after oral retelling for decades, discarding the ones we didn't like and settling on a specific interpretation we liked best.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45730974
Apologize for the toxic behavior you and your cutesokyotards displayed when people tried talking about grimsokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>45730970
>>45731601
t. too obsessed with printwork gensokyo to try and seduce his favorite man-eating 'hu

[Anonymous No.]

>>45731601
>toxic behavior
Just by typing this I can say you deserved it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721697
This would completely miss the point of Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

Why do people always ignore how light hearted a lot of the stories are?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
Gensokyo is just more of the same we got on earth ngl. Youkai are born from the evils and depths of mankind.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721697
Youkai don't exist on earth much anymore for a reason anon, youkai survive on fear and will fade away alongside mankind.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45732387
something something retconned/contradicted/"barely canon"

[Anonymous No.]

>>45734180
Something something recent stories stories light hearted

[Anonymous No.]

>>45734216
I can't believe they fucking killed off Mokou on-panel

[Anonymous No.]

>>45732387
Because the story is from the perspective of the people at the top.

It's like watching a movie about North Korea from the perspective of the Kim family.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735144
FS was from kosuzu's perspective and there was still plenty of lighthearted moments in it
Lotus Eaters literally has humans get kidnapped by tanuki and show up just fine

[Anonymous No.]

Youkai make me even more erect when they could kill and eat me at a moment's notice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735188
A human travels all the way up to a youkai gambling den and is fine. They even set up a branch on the village just for humans to gamble safely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735188
>Lotus Eaters literally has humans get kidnapped by tanuki and show up just fine
After getting brutally amazon position'd by Mamizou then getting shared around every fertile tanuki in Gensokyo before a mindwiping.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735474
And some people still have the audacity to say that Gensokyo's humans have it rough...

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735474
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME! NOT HIM!

[Anonymous No.]

>>45730970
not a single canon work enforces the grimsokyo narrative

>inb4 PMiSS
that book is specifically made FOR the villagers of gensokyo to keep them afraid of youkai, it is specifically stated that Akyuu was asked BY THE YOUKAI to exaggerate how strong they are

the youkai of gensokyo NO LONGER ATTACK HUMANS, but youkai NEED FEAR TO EXIST, so they find ways to SPREAD FEAR to keep themselves alive, people often misinterpret the human village's purpose as it being a literal breeding ground to FEED HUMANS TO YOUKAI, but in reality it's to FEED FEAR TO HUMANS, to KEEP THE YOUKAI ALIVE

DOES CAPS LOCK HELP YOU UNDERSTAND? ONCE AND FOR ALL?

READ. THE. OFFICIAL. WORKS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45722370
>Outside World and survive, Yukari, Nue and few others are such examples
Yukari may or may not be tied to quantum principles and gains her power from a lack of understanding about such things
Nue draws her power off the unexplained and can survive with belief in UFOs and cryptids
Mamizou is actively worshipped in some parts of Japan

The weaker ones can sustain themselves for a time, but they'd fade quickly as even if accepted their natures would be readily explained and the mystery and proper fear/belief would fade away.
Kanako explains this is Symposium, its literally why she had to come to Gensokyo despite her shrine being active technically

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735660
So basically, Yukari is a youkai about a concept/thing that humanity hasn't grasped yet?
Nue drawing her power from UFO sightings make perfect sense, there is no shortage of conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hats in the Outside World
Not sure about Mamizou, the abrahamic god is worshipped and yet he doesn't manifest as a physical avatar like Gods in Gensokyo do

That aside, Hecatia mentioned that there is a hell for every world, including Earth (outside world), do you think they're not affected by disbelief for some reason?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735717
>Not sure about Mamizou, the abrahamic god is worshipped and yet he doesn't manifest as a physical avatar like Gods in Gensokyo do
First and foremost he doesn't need too, why would he need to physically go to gensokyo when he can thrive in the outside world just fine? Even Adam, the first Human runs a bar in Tokyo just fine.
Mamizou went to Gensokyo and chooses to stay there and lead her tanuki like Nue chooses too. Its personal preference and implied that Youkai are far and few in-between in Japan, its lonely basically.

As for Yukari, its never mentioned by some smarty pants anon brought up that her gaps and stuff could fall into the concept of quantum stuff very well and it does make some sense. Its never really stated in canon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735659
anon he's just gonna say that SoPM retconned it

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735775
>three religious leaders trying their hardest to spread their ideologies and a bunch of bunbunmaru articles
yeah I'm sure that's a good way of telling what gensokyo is like instead of, y'know, just looking at the day-to-day occurrences of the human village and whatnot, which we see in the mangas.

Once again the biggest problem is touhou fans taking literature works that are directed at the actual in-universe Humans of the village and taking it as the literal canon depictions of what happens in Gensokyo, they'd be as easily subdued by propaganda as them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735758
>First and foremost he doesn't need too, why would he need to physically go to gensokyo when he can thrive in the outside world just fine?
You didn't understand my point anon, the Gods in Gensokyo, who are worshipped in their own right, manifest avatars to physically interact with the inhabitants, you'd bet the Abrahamic God with the amount of worship he has would be able to do that too to prove he actually exist yet he doesn't, see where im getting at here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736034
I'm not really sure I am, its explained pretty well that the gods of genoskyo ventured there on their own initiative or helped make it IE: Dragon god. What need would the abrahamic god have to do so? Same thing as the god(s) of Hindu, the various pagan gods of europe, or Zoroastrianism.
Most if not all of the gods there don't really operate through avatars, at least that we see. Except Suwako who manifests herself to followers in the form of a frog. I suppose there was also in SSiB where Reimu became the avatar for some gods to sail the rocket to the moon

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735474
Gensokyo truly is terrible. A man wouldn't be mindwiped after such an encounter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736205
This, he'd be tormented by their pregnant bodies and increased libidos by the ones that aren't pregnant yet then forced to take responsibility

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735659
Literally every single print work shows outsiders are murdered. That alone makes Gensokyo grimdark.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735188
>FS was from kosuzu's perspective and there was still plenty of lighthearted moments in it
Kosuzu is priviliged. That's the point of FS.

>Lotus Eaters literally has humans get kidnapped by tanuki and show up just fine
Yeah? Tanuki aren't known for eating people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736002
>yeah I'm sure that's a good way of telling what gensokyo is like instead of, y'know, just looking at the day-to-day occurrences of the human village and whatnot, which we see in the mangas.
How about the fact they are all trapped, can't leave, are constantly being spied upon, and outsiders are murdered.

If your society is only slightly better than Shinsekai Yori, it's dystopian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736247
prove it
where's the dead outsiders in eastern and little nature deity

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736205
>>45736241
That's how you get Reimu and Marisa sniffing around for who's behind the disappearing villagers. No, they have to snatch villagers up, pound them for all they're worth, erase their memories of the encounter, and release. It's outsiders they can keep without repercussions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736247
there isn't a single dead outsider (or insider, even) in any of the manga, all we get are whispers, tales and rumors

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736247
>Literally every single print work shows outsiders are murdered.
Wrong.
Outsiders are clearly gapped in by for two primary reasons: First being food for youkai, this includes those that wouldn't be missed and wouldn't try to hard to resist like the suicidal. Second would to enrich gensokyo, these want to live and sometimes just leave. Those that settle in however wind up spreading culture Yukari wants introduced. you see this in the rich food culture Gensokyo seems to have despite being cut off from the world at the menji era.
Is it dark? yes, but no where near grim like tards claim.
>>45736292
Wahh as well, all that happens is Yukari mentions that she takes the suicidal and villainous villagers and let the youkai eat them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736360
Akyuu also mentions in PMiSS that Soccer became popular in the village because some outsiders introduced it

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736329
Is the salt merchant a joke to you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736360
>villainous villagers
That's a thing? I thought humans were at peace with themselves knowing they have a bigger enemy

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736379
he's a villager, I don't think there were any mentioned of him being an outsider. and he got possessed by a youkai which was maybe possibly mamizou's doing but reimu couldn't prove it

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736388
In Wahh where the Warashiki network was brought up Yukari talks with Kasen in private and mentions how she keeps the youkai fed. I believe it was specifically mentioned there that she takes villagers that are villainous and arranges attacks on them. It makes sense too, getting the villagers thinking they're in constant danger is a sure way to get them to rapidly organize. Thats the reason why the youkai all work together to minimize damage on the village at all costs and stomp each other when someone tries attacking them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735659
>>45736002
>>45736292
>>45736329
So what you people are implying is that absolutely all mentions of outsiders being abducted and/or killed are just fakes to scare the villagers? Sounds ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736360
>Is it dark? yes, but no where near grim like tards claim.
It's literally systemic slaughter. Yeah, it's not grim dark but grimdark is defined by a lack of hope.

>mentions that she takes the suicidal and villainous villagers and let the youkai eat them.
No, she does not. She explains that she has spies in the outside world to loo for people to abduct.

>>45736329
Read chapter 10 of Lotus Eater. Rinnosuke goes and loots their corpses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736458
>It's literally systemic slaughter.
Except that is in no way canon and refuted by a whole bunch of prints.

>She explains that she has spies in the outside world to loo for people to abduc
You are confused, when the Zarashiki(or whatever they're called) migrated to the outside world it was for their survival, for a limited time, and is a rather rare occurrence according to Wahh. So rare was this that Yukari actually recruited a whole new speicies, the hobgobs to fill their role to limited success.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736447
it's not said at all
she vaguely implies that she spies on the village through her network and that gensokyo gets its food from 'somewhere', but the fact that she says 'so that those sorts of humans don't appear' rather than 'disappear' implies to me that she uses the network to prevent people from thinking of those sorts of things in the first place rather than getting rid of them after they do start thinking it
also this whole bit is when she's acting really fucking dorky and mysterious toward kasen because she wants her to say that she's on yukari's (the youkai) side, so I don't even take it as being entirely what's actually happening and more yukari playing up just how fucking youkai she is

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736490
>Except that is in no way canon and refuted by a whole bunch of prints.
How? Where is it stated that outsiders are NOT killed.

>You are confused, when the Zarashiki(or whatever they're called) migrated to the outside world it was for their survival, for a limited time, and is a rather rare occurrence according to Wahh
Yukari explicitly said she wanted them to spy on outsiders.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736493
I suppose we're reaching different conclusions then. We'll agree to disagree then, It could be read in either direction and outsiders coming into be killed is a known factor. Its not a leap to say that she weeds out the 'bad' villagers AND takes in the suicidal outsiders.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736514
I mean, the implication is both but we have less prove of the former.

We do know she spies on the villagers though, I think that's mentioned even outside of Wahh. I doubt that's for wholesome reasons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736524
*proof

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736301
Not like those two would care to rescue you if you ended up in some youkai's rape dungeon even if you were a villager.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736503
>How? Where is it stated that outsiders are NOT killed.
No they are, this may be arguing semantics, but calling it systemic is a leap. There isn't any proof that the outsiders she nabs up are anything more than opportunism as she lacks the eyes and ears in the outside world to have an actual operation where she weeds out the right candidates and feeds thems to the more feral youkai

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736541
Mamizou is smart, she'd mind break you beforehand and reduce those two to blushing messes as you loudly proclaim your love and romance. They'd leave you be seeing how devoted you are to your tanuki wives

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735758
>As for Yukari, its never mentioned by some smarty pants anon brought up that her gaps and stuff could fall into the concept of quantum stuff very well and it does make some sense. Its never really stated in canon.

It is stated, renko says the gaps are probably some kind of quantum superposition and for that reason mery can be here and there at the same time, and the track before pure furies on dr latency states the youkais are seeing mery as some weird particle but they are stlll hostile towards her

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736569
Ah, I haven't bothered with the Hifuu stuff yet. No wonder

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736548
>but calling it systemic is a leap.
When it comes to determining if something is grim, I would say it is 100% just semantics.

[Anonymous No.]

What's the point of raising a family on the human village if sooner or later a random youkai would just slay you and your kids?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736563
What an awful fate. I might have to stop walking outside the village at night talking to myself how I'm single and how my disappearance would go unnoticed.,

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736611
Ask most people in history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736563
Gensokyo is truly a terrible place...
How am I supposed to cope knowing that at any moment, I could be kidnapped and taken away to be married off to a terrifying tanuki girl with thick eyebrows

[Anonymous No.]

grimsokyo cute edition where i have cuteweird demon wife and children

[Anonymous No.]

How did you guys managed to make sure these things didn't mess up touhou when discovered it? I've been in Touhou for about 6 months and at first I liked that it seemed so innocent, just girls doing silly things. But I wasn't very comfortable when I discovered more of the lore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736703
no one cared then, it's only because there's like three guys (I think one or two of them are korean) who will spend an entire 300 post thread arguing about how grim gensokyo is that it became harder to avoid
plus back then making an 'outsider ends up in gensokyo' fanfic was still in vogue so there was probably a bit of willful ignorance going around too

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721697
>So what's stopping youkai of just kill every human on the village?
They need them to survive.
>Couldn't all of them just join forces and genocide the entire human race?
They can't, humans BTFO'd the magical beings so hard they needed to create their very own paradise stuck in the past where humans weren't as strong.
With every new piece of lore the idea that Gensokyo is filled with uber-powerful gods gets more and more destroyed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736703
Are you me? The more I read the official stuff the less I liked canon.
>I liked that it seemed so innocent, just girls doing silly things.
I just write fanfiction where that's the case. Oh, and shitpost in these threads because seeing people defend their fanon inspires me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736679
Just go play Monster Girl Quest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736759
no

[Anonymous No.]

>>45730379
> their only true ally being Rinnosuke, a virgin nerd obsessed with the outside world.
I wasn't ready for this line in le grimdark blurb.
>>45722213
>I bet you a youkai could survive from a nuke but shit the entirety of their existence in front of a jesus cross,
Maybe a bit of topic but in nip stuff I think I've never seen the cross for vampires, at best they have weakness against holy/blessed weapons, so it's more like a specific poison for them.
>>45730996
And just like with myths, religious and history. Guess fictional works are no different.
>>45736034
Going by SSiB gods seem to only have one body(except heca I guess) but their spirits/presence can appear is an many places as were people call them so even if humans can't see them they can still be there but they do seem to posses a physical form.
>Why doesn't God x?
Don't think ZUN is ever gonna get directly into mayor religions for Touhou... Aside for Buddhism I guess but not main figures, you know how it goes.
>>45736247
>shows outsiders are murdered. That alone makes Gensokyo grimdark.
Murder existing makes a setting grimdark?
Guess we'll have to move shounen to grimdark or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736759
Too much vore. Way too much vore. And tentacles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736590
If you really want to call it grim be my guest, It is simply not as it be
>>45736703
I enjoy warhammer plenty and its even worse. Same thing except I want to wife the hus

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736541
I trust Reimu and Marisa implicitly with my life and personal possessions, why don't you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736745
That and youkai got replaced by abrahamic demons and the like on earth, gensokyo is "predominately" a shinto paradise

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736576
Well you should get into that rabbit hole then, even if maribel is not yukari we have a lot of relevant info there and it doesn't ruin the grimsokyo vs cutesokyo pointless discussion

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
If ZUN played his card right, Miyadeguchi's stuff will hammered grimsokyo canon status even further

[Anonymous No.]

>>45738121
I mean she could've just died of old age and not in the line of work

[Anonymous No.]

But can the youkai beat Tetris?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45738248
>she could've just died of old age
She's died with gigantic seethe anon, or else she wouldn't become vengeful spirit

[Anonymous No.]

>>45737109
They'd get flustered at the sight of lewdness so they'd just assume you're there willingly and make their excuses and leave.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45738248
she's a vengeful spirit so thats not likely

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736493
Am I the only one who remembers Yukari does massive truth padding, and "bad things" don't necessarily have to mean the same thing it does to us

>>45736734
it is mostly a cgdct franchise,
>Touhou Koumakyou is a game made by a danmaku moe artist for those who are danmaku moe.
but stuff like that was present since the reboot
>In ancient times, this was a place of terror. Those who wandered too close would be eaten by youkai. People named this place Gensokyo and never dared to approach.
>The youkai of Gensokyo have built up their own culture; one that is all that like the culture of the world when Gensokyo was sealed. However, it was not a materialistic culture - it was a culture centered upon spiritual awareness far exceeding that of the human world. The wise youkai sought not the bounty of objects, but the bounty of the heart.
>Nonetheless, the main diet of youkai is, of course, humans. Natural products are especially popular. Food-gathering teams would go out at regular intervals to hunt humans. Of course, the youkai couldn't let the humans know about their presence. Under the guise of various accidents and incidents of people running away from home, the youkai hunted humans. A simple missing person would barely even make the news since there were too many people in the human world.
>P.S. So, why is Gensokyo a paradise for humans if they have to live with youkai? Well, that's because when everyone has enough power to defeat youkai in combat, and that's anything but boring!

[Anonymous No.]

>>45735659
>it is specifically stated that Akyuu was asked BY THE YOUKAI to exaggerate how strong they are
And doesnt she flat out refuse them?
>the youkai of gensokyo NO LONGER ATTACK HUMANS, but youkai NEED FEAR TO EXIST
Except there's yokai in the outside world like Mamizou and others more in the Animal Realm. This is ZUN just being inconsistent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742355
>And doesnt she flat out refuse them?
She seems willing enough to exaggerate, like with Yukari when she asks to edit it directly, for Reimu and Marisa making them seem cooler, and runs a book of Tanuki stories at Mamizou's request.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736034
>the amount of worship he has
Sorry but i want to address this part specifically. People put too much stock into the amount of worship a god has, i know since i use to. It makes sense in other settings but in 2hu you have Hecatia who has a pitiful number of followers compared gods in Gensoyko and especially the moon and yet she's much more influential and powerful than gods from those places.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742414
Could be a thing of proportion. Even if there are relatively very few Hecate worshippers in the Outside World, it'd still be likely a higher number than Gensokyo's whole population - and there's no single Gensokyan god commanding the entire population's devotion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45738121
Anon, Mizuchi actually proves the opposite
She proves that the gensokyo of the past, before the spell card rules, was very much grimsokyo, but that the present gensokyo very much isn't.
Her very first lines are asking how long it has been since Gensokyo lost its chaos, and you need to reread the chapter where she wanders around the village as possessed mokou, because the whole point is that she saw innocuous youkai doing innocuous things like running a bar and selling things to human and she immediately assumed that it meant that humans had lost to youkai rather than both were living somewhat equally.
A major part of her character thus far is that she wants to cause chaos and destroy places (what she says regarding both moriya Shrine and myouren temple) despite both of those places not doing anything wrong - Hell, Sanae is a bigger youkai exterminator fanatic than Reimu is.
Mizuchi really needs to run into someone like Kasen who's on the side of humans and can tell her exactly how Gensokyo changed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742432
>Likely
I dont think so. She herself is inspired by an already not so important goddess from a pantheon that most greeks dont even care about anymore. And what about the moon? Just doesnt add up to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742623
She seems to have high faith specifically because she has a vast range of worshippers. She probably gets a metric fuckton of faith by literally everyone ever who falls into hell for whatever reason since apparently she's Satan's equivalent there. Her being bullshit powerful compared to everything makes sense to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742728
Why would most people worship her while in hell? They're supposed to suffer there. She's part of the reason for why they're suffering. And who's to say that they don't have gods that they already worshiped themselves before winding up there?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742933
Hell is just a bigger Hot Topic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742933
Yeah they suffer by not being able to get one of Heca-chan's totally awesome t-shirts

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
>What is your honest opinion on Grimsokyo?
I don't like it, it's harder to masturbate to

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
>What is your honest opinion on Grimsokyo?
I like it, it's easier to masturbate to

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742511
>Kasen
You mean "Gensokyo should be destroyed and the barrier torn down" Kasen?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45736887
>>45737030
To be honest, I wouldn't call it grimdark simply because grimdark to be is based on a lack of hope. Gensokyo might arguably be hopeless and dystopian, but it's a tiny little nothing corner of the world and it's pretty likely it could just be destroyed one day. Still, it is a bad evil place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45742414
>Hecatia who has a pitiful number of followers compared gods in Gensoyko
The current Wiccan faith is made up of over a million people in America alone. Hecatia is very much a normal fish in a tiny pond.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
I find it cooler than the boring everyone cutie and friendly Gensokyo for sure.
Wouldn't sell as much garbage to pathetic weebs if it was grim for real, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
I like it, aesthetically speaking. I think the girls are cuter when they are drawn a bit spooky looking.

>>45743236
This dude gets it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45721770
>The human villagers, basically the one unambiguously good group
They literally sacrifice children to and worship the youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743742
>pathetic weebs>>45743886

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743941
wait fuck i didnt mean to reply to 45743886

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743916
stop reading zounose shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743455
I don't think Mizuchi would be convinced by Kasen, and Kasen is fairly critical of Gensokyo herself even if people like to play up how much she dislikes Gensokyo.
Hell the entire chapter were this was brought up had her deiced to not become a threat to Gensokyo is her being tested by Suika.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743916
Tertiary detected.

[Anonymous No.]

Maybe this isn't the right thread, but I just realized that ZUN never bothered to show any meaningful interaction between fairies and human villager, except for that one short scene with Clownpiece in the village in early VFiS and some cameos during shrine festival and shit in manga
Kosuzu during FS and those two old fucks in LE always talking about youkai, but never even mentioned the much more abundant fairies, it's pretty weird

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744050
Akyuu apparently advocates beating the shit out of them if you're feeling angry or stressed if that counts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743941
"Pathetic weebs" as in people who would cry because someone made porn of Touhou and that's a big no-no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744050
Wouldn't fairies be included in the 'youkai' set? In the most basic human/supernatural sense at least

>>45743949
>>45744044
that post was literally in a chain about Zounose's villagers though

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744082
Yeah that's exactly why it's so weird, from Akyuu's writing it seems that it's quite common for fairies to interacts (aka play prank) to a human, but I don't think the word "fairy" ever uttered by human villager

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744050
Fairies are akin to nature itself. You wouldn't talk about that tree in your backyard unless a branch fall off or something, just as fairies aren't talked about unless they start pulling pranks.
And since doing that in the village is a quick way to get the shrine maiden on your ass, they usually just don't.

At least that's how I would explain it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744105
I apologize to that anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744105
>The human villagers, basically the one unambiguously good group (in canon), are way worse (in Zounose's works)
Does that help you understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744105
Don't pretend like you aren't that anon, you even posted a zounose image.
You aren't fooling anyone and your lack of reading comprehension is laughable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744118
Maybe it's so common that it doesn't even warrant talking about. Fairy pranks some farmer, he beats it over the head with a shovel, and life moves on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744168
I'm the one who posted >>45721741 at the start of that chain, and Zounose was because I know 4channel froths at the mouth at the very sight for some reason (KKHTA did much more damage yet is nowhere near as good a bait)

>>45744150
makes sense though not how I'd read it, the villagers there are still the most "good" faction there is because everyone else straight-up sucks

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744123
>in the village
But villager always ventures outside the village, either to tend their farms, foraging stuff, or visiting local establishment (shrines)

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743478
Thats all well and good for Wiccans, but back to Hecatia, Hellenism is practically dead. And as i said, she isnt likely to have many worshipers in one of the ''hells'' of all places. No matter how you cut it she has many less worshipers than gods in Gensokyo or the more shinto ones on the moon (who still have millions and millions of worshipers).

[Anonymous No.]

Do afterlife realms even require belief to exist? That's the more important question

[Anonymous No.]

>>45745205
Ah, I felt something was missing.
Now it's a modern lore thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45745024
>but back to Hecatia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate
As a "goddess of witchcraft", Hecate has been incorporated in various systems of Neopagan witchcraft, Wicca, and neopaganism,[173] in some cases associated with the Wild Hunt of Germanic tradition,[174] in others as part of a reconstruction of specifically Greek polytheism, in English also known as "Hellenismos".[175] In Wicca, Hecate has in some cases become identified with the "crone" aspect of the "Triple Goddess".[176]

Why do you think she's dressed up like a edgy teenager?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744205
I think because pretending KKHTA is in any way canon is not something anybody is going to do with a straight face.

It's like pretending that troll fic where Goku fights Hitler is canon to Dragon Ball.

>the villagers there are still the most "good" faction there is because everyone else straight-up sucks
Well, yeah. But they are still much more cold and detached than they are in canon. I just can't see the canon village sacrificing children.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45746188
Goku x Anne Frank is canon, sorry Chicucks the kike gets the monkey tard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743236
Yuuka squeezing and massaging your testicles every day so you blow a massive load into her every night.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743236
Having sex with a youkai <<<<< getting raped by a youkai who threatens to put you on the menu if you don't satisfy her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45718518
What I think got lost in the details and translation is that it's not a human zoo, it's a carefully balanced nature preserve where the caretakers are part of the preserve and nobody seems to know the rules even though they pretend they all do. And what happens to an outside species that comes in? It's either removed or consumed by the caretakers, or it's carefully allowed to fill an ecological niche after its been vetted to not cause any problems.

And some youkai are still gonna be dicks just like some of the humans are, but as long as the balance is met and the sky doesn't fall in, they can be with no problems until a bigger fish comes along (and it needs to fit in too or else). That's why Eiki looks like a hypocrite to us but a good judge to them-she's not judging is you've been a good person, she's judging if you've stayed true to what makes you "you".

So outsiders can come in and stay as long as they don't bring in the logic pox or try to upset the status quo. It's Meiji Japan, which is known for keeping things in its neat little boxes of social status. You're not talking to any of the bigwigs unless they happen across YOU. Not the other way around. And then it's a toss up. Oni? No chance, but if you're honest and don't show fear they might let you live (offer a drink). Kosuzu? Give her a cookie and the book you brought, but watch the strict parents who can also kick your ass if they think you're getting "too close". But do all you can to fit in and you'll get a warm welcome and a good time (just stay trying to fit in. You're in the cage with the beasts even if it's got pretty sights)

[Anonymous No.]

>>45722213
If you want an accurate reason behind how they work, no shit, read how magic died off in the fate/stay series. It's almost exactly like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45732916
What nobody gets is that Gensokyo is actually safer than going up against the yokai and gods that managed to survive in the outside world. At least in Gensokyo they have rules to keep you alive. Out here is a free for all "strong eat the weak" mentality but kicked up to extreme since the ones that can live out here had to adapt to the real hard shit after getting desperate. Shapeshifting alien reptile blood drinking elite bs everybody harps on about? Skinwalkers and such? Yeah. Think about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45746799
Gilgamesh (forma de little girl) fucked everyone over because her ego was too big?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45746799
Just watch the Flight of Dragons, it's the exact same idea now to fantasy nature reservation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45746834
I mean.....if you squint.....
Meant more along the lines of the age of heroes and magic being superceded by the humans who became out of sync with the rest of reality, so what does all exist either warped to abomination status to live, was strong enough to make it to the top dog position and shouldn't be fucked with, or had to go hide in its own little reality marble/pocket dimension where it can go about its own form of a retirement home/eternal lifestyle or study because of super magic OCD. The humans in our world just mill about their lives unless they trip and fall dick first into death or greatness.

>>45746918
Have not heard of this but will watch. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a valid reason to hate the Lunarians other than "they're more powerful than Gensokyans and are antagonistic toward Gensokyo"? For all we know this unpleasant attitude might be only limited to Gensokyo and not everyone since youkai tried invading their home 1000 years ago

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747049
They're kind of stuck up, even the whimsical kind look down on everyone on the earth as its impure. To me that racism is a plus though

[Anonymous No.]

>>45746188
>pretending KKHTA is in any way canon is not something anybody is going to do with a straight face
I don't think anyone does that with Zounose either. At least, I don't think I've ever seen anyone seriously discussing the prospect of it being canon, so it all just sounds like bait precisely because of the responses it usually gets.
Hell the Zounose thread is pretty much filled with open contempt for the guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747049
They think of all life on earth as being impure, with them being better, because they are separated from the life/death cycle that we are bound by(think the purple chick from mass effect or bubble boy) yet they can come into contact with impurities and fall down to our status. The main issue is that they are literal protohumans and the primordial gods of creation that decided "fuck this shit", killed everything in the extinction event that wiped the dinosaurs after collapsing the pillars of heaven, fucked off to the moon, and got all snoody after they set up their little perfect bubble. And then punished others for being more pure than them, yet value the cycle, or straight offed a guy because he tripped and fell into the moon. What'd they do? Kill him? No, that's cruel. They sent him home hundreds of years after evening he knew was dead, then he opened the farewell present which was a reverse Dorian Gray incident and turned him to baby powder. Perfectly merciful and totally better than you. Nevermind trying to genocide the earth because some random bumblefuck fairy started kicking over fruit stalls on the moon. (And fuck Junko too, she does the memory of her son a disservice)

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747049
The slavery and nephew fucking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747210
Rabbits are servile, have no loyalty, and would barely be able to click rocks together if left by their lonesome. Slavery is a net positive for them and they can while away their years in near immortality free from disease in comfort thanks to their kind masters.
There is nothing wrong with incest aside from it making you personally feel icky, grow up earthling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747076
They are isolationist, sure, but it's a justified isolationism, considering that stepping out of their home will strip them of their conditional agelessness and will also bring diseases.

Their technology is above Outside World level, yet they don't wipe out Earth or other realms (they did consider taking over Gensokyo but as was said previously, the youkai made the first provokation thousand years ago)

Think of it like this, racism against a nigger is unjustified because when a nigger touches you nothing actually bad happens, but it's a different case with Lunarians, to them the Earthlings are the niggers, and these niggers carry actual detrimental consequences from physical contact with them, so of course they'd develop a fear and disdain for them

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747099
I don't visit Zounose threads because they always degenerate into whining, but his take is much closer to canon than most fanworks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747288
>>45732873

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747288
I've seen this exact same bait dozens of times before. What are you hoping to achieve with it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747254
Those same rabbits are brainwashed to like the Lunarian BDSM training. Now tell Tewi how they just fuck about. Ever wonder how the earth rabbit yokai came to be? Also, how are Daikokus brothers doing after the alligator incident? Not very pure. But cousin fucking is? "Closer kin, deeper in" a Lunarian thing? Would say to touch grass but that'd literally kill them.

>>45747271
The only reason they can't step outside of the bubble is because they trapped themselves out of hubris. And if they value the cycle so much, at the very least they are a bunch of hypocrits. They even got mad at the earthlings for stepping on the moon because they couldn't accept the idea of the probability that someone would make it up there didn't take into account that it wasn't calculated to be "them" getting there. They had egg on their faces and couldn't do anything. And they are the ancestors of all humanity- they're still technically human, just full of it after being in pristine conditions for so long, but they still.....talk about the cycle of life and death as the most important thing. It's not "they're better than you and you're just jelly", it's "they're full of shit and do so much double speak that nobody wants to be around them (except the horny anons), but they'll straight kill you if they get bored" assholes.

And disease has nothing to do with it, they have cure alls. The earth is just "icky" to them after so long.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747328
https://youtu.be/aVi33_9OP6Q?si=jUC3PJe0S6JfbsAr

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747288
It's arguably more realistic and better written than Zun's farcical and dishonest writing.

[Anonymous No.]

I wish all Grimsokyofags a very nice Touhou Sangetsusei (all 4 books) reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747347
it's gotten to a point where I can't tell if people are serious or not when they say that zounose is closer to canon than most fanworks
it's like, you clearly can't have read them or you'd know how wrong that is unless you unironically think the kappa have a concentration camp in the mountains filled with suicidal people that they turn into canned food or that the human village is selecting sacrifices to give to the tengu (who are so xenophobic that no one's allowed to even see their city)

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747334
>The only reason they can't step outside of the bubble is because they trapped themselves out of hubris
They departed from Earth many, many thousands if not millions of years ago, back when it was most likely a very blood-stained place of violence, as they say, so it's not out of hubris, they just didn't want to partake in the meaningless violence and impurity that was taking place.

We also aren't sure what their opinion of modern humanity is, they dislike Gensokyo which includes its humans so it make it seem as if they hate humanity but we simply don't know, Reimu is literally a dog of the filthy youkai that tried invading their home long ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747271
Not really, in SSiB and Inaba they were seen on earth and touching human and youkai without issue. The problems only arises when Reimu figured out the issue and used crystallized life-force to force in her duel to try and force at least a stalemate.
Maybe thats why they had to try so hard to destroy the research base on the moon, the astronauts were cumming too much in their spare time and it was floating over and dissolving the barrier to the capital. Makes as much sense as the Canon lore anyways.

[Anonymous No.]

I choose to believe the closest fanworks to canon are ones where youkai kidnap human men for breeding purposes (whether outsider or villager) and because sexual assault is close enough to terrorising humans for youkai to keep existing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747357
Urumi even specifically state IN-GAME that she can't attack or eat humans anymore. It's not just them not reading the canon works, it's them not even playing the games entirely lol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747334
>And they are the ancestors of all humanity- they're still technically human
what
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747374
>in SSiB and Inaba they were seen on earth and touching human and youkai without issue
>they
You mean the Watatsuki sisters? Those are far from being ordinary lunarians, they possess unique abilities each and are also charged of watching over Earth so impurity is not as much of a concern to them if they are powerful enough to get rid of it themselves, they aren't average lunarians

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747347
new fairy manga fucking when
it's the most consistently good thing that ZUN ever did
plus I only just realised this since 19 came out but the fairy manga is also the one that got suika the clsoest to her concept art by having her horns point upward instead of outward

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747382
This is canon if you read between the lines, some will say that youkai take cute forms to hunt better, but what of the earth spiders that don't go to the surface to hunt? What of the oni, of Kasen's arm who last walked the earth long before Gensokyo existed and chose that erotic form? What of the hell youkai who not only look human on purpose but imitate human culture?

Fact is that Youkai want only one thing out of humans, their cum. The true job of the mikos is to prevent them from acquiring it, as is the truce. It is why every youkai faction worth their salt attempts to control the village with the ultimate goal of being able to walk the streets openly. It is all for the sake of acquiring their virile seed, same as why the animal realm is so desperate to claim human souls and why they attempted to claim the surface.
Facts are facts, lewdsokyo is the only canon and all of them crave the milk of human kindness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747411
Also Reisen two, and they do go to the moon and stomp around and play with the bun squad to no ill effect. Then you have the mythological stories of humans heading up there to no ill effect

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747433
there's absolutely no way that arm-chan didn't rape the people that she ate before kasen recovered her arm, and there's DEFINITELY no way that oni kasen wasn't raping humans regularly

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747425
we need ZUN to introduce a new fairy to kickstart a new book, just like what happened with Clownpiece and Larva

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747445
>Reisen two
Moon Rabbits aren't the same species as Lunarians
>Then you have the mythological stories of humans heading up there to no ill effect
The fisher guy (forgot his name) was only lucky enough to be spared even though Eirin suggested his execution (the Watatsuki sisters were kind enough to make him ascend to the status of a god)

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747374
They have a literal nano-particle gap in the bottom of their shoes to keep them from touching the ground all they don't turn into that Mexican alien meme.

>>45747461
Yeah, fisher guy in real lore got time traveled and turned to dust by Eirin after they talked her out of killing him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747461
Moon rabbits are also without impurity and there isn't anything that says they'd be affected differently by impurity. As seen with Reimu they need actual proper life-force, like the little thing Reimu manifested, or a fairy proper to have that disastrous effect. Don't forget that the lunar envoys that came down to the planet to hunt kags and Eririn did so without issue. They can survive for times outside and let others inside the capital as they please, its only when you introduce pure life-force that they wilt

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747456
There is one...

[Anonymous No.]

>>45716097
I think it's ZUNs fault because that grim shit is at best VERY rarely referenced in official works and at worst actively contradicts the tone/characterization/dialogue of the actual games. The vast, VAST majority of youkai characters come across as totally normal and friendly and the idea that they're really murderous beasts to outsiders isn't really plausible because they never show any signs of it. It's especially hard to believe because most of the human characters are fairly normal nice people who obviously would have some adverse reactions or opinions on it yet all behave like it doesn't really exist - probably because it basically doesn't and amounts to some old lore trivia that never comes up. Pretty sure ZUN even said in an interview that all the pre-danmaku death threats some youkai do is just playing on the youkai image but it's all just posturing and everyone knows they actually won't.

[Anonymous No.]

everyone seems to forget that sumireko was literally an outsider and their plan to deal with her was still to play-act like they were going to kill her when they never intended to
according to grimsokyofags they should have ripped her to pieces and ate her up like savages

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747506
>there isn't anything that says they'd be affected differently by impurity

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747547
She got special plot protection for being a cute girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747547
And the reason was that Sumireko had abiding ties to the Outside World, making her disappearance potentially problematic for Gensokyo. You didn't miss that bit, did you? This even goes on to be the stated reason for why she's tolerated in Gensokyo later on.

[Anonymous No.]

What gets me about these arguments is that there's examples, bits, gags, and anecdotes, in canon that exist as evidence to every side, some get cited more than others, but it all continues in the same cyclical argument. I've come to the conclusion that Canon Gensokyo exists only in ZUNs mind, and with doujin culture being such a big part of Touhou I don't think he cares too much how accurate people are to the details. Pay respect to the source material, but indulge in your own headcanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747587
Sumi is literally a nobody and her disappearance would affect nothing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747587
oh, so it's not just a blanket 'if you're an outsider you get killed' then? could have fooled me with how much grimsokyofags were jerking off to that idea

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747601
Thank you, bird of truth

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747615
>how much grimsokyofags were jerking off to that idea
Because in the majority of cases it is so. Sumireko sought out and breached Gensokyo of her own volition. She wasn't a forgotten, lost or suicidal person. She wasn't gapped in as food. Moreover, she's an esper, which makes her fit in much more readily than any ordinary Outsider.

Sumi's a unique case. For how it usually goes, refer to the print works.

[Anonymous No.]

Why did they attack merry but not sumireko?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747601
You know it's bad when someone with a picture of Okuu eating glue is somehow the most reasonable one around here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747675
Merry drops into Gensokyo at an unspecified point in time that is most likely not present-day, well regulated Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747685
But she didn't go to sakuya? Or was that on another visit? I don't remember

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747636
>For how it usually goes, refer to the print works.
You mean the ones that never actually show or even reference outsiders getting killed?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747456
>we need ZUN to introduce a new fairy
sex fairy

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747701
she does meet sakuya, and she gets saved from a youkai beast attacking her by mokou (it's kind of left unclear if mokou actually knew it was happening or just got into a fight without noticing merry)
I think she even gets cookies or something from sakuya too unless I'm confusing stories

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747700
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Outsider

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747675
>they
I only remember her being attacked by a feral youkai in the Bamboo Forest. Were there other examples?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747700
>Depressed people, spiteful people bearing grudges, criminals and the like are the favorite food of youkai. There are plenty of those kinds of people here.
So maybe they don't kill people who don't fit into that. This could also be why Sumireko wasn't attacked.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747740
Yes, she mentions that she always runs away from youkai when she enters gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>45744205
>>45747099
KKHTA isn't really "Grimsokyo", at least in the way most people intend it. When people talk about Grimsokyo, they refer to the setting of Gensokyo having a dark underside due to the dynamics of human-youkai relationships: villagers being cattle for belief, youkai eating outsiders and so on. Moreover, this type of fanwork aims to present these themes as an existent, albeit overlooked, part of canon Gensokyo: the fanwork itself isn't canon (by definition, no fanwork is), but it claims to interpret themes already present within the canon story.
Meanwhile KKHTA doesn't feature any of this. It's just a 2hu story that happens to be grimdark. The source of said grimdark isn't even to be found in Gensokyo, it's mostly due to the Lunarian faction, led by a character only nominally present in the 2hu series which might as well be OC.
The series ultimately does its own thing and doesn't expound unpleasant references about the nature of Gensokyo taken from canon works. It's quite upfront about it too.
It doesn't cause "damage" to the discourse because nobody brings it up as a faithful interpretation of the dynamics of Gensokyo and because the series itself doesn't care to focus on those for its story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747748
we don't even know how often youkai need to eat or how long one human lasts them
hell, the oni had strict no contact rules with the surface world (including by gaps or yukari could have gone down in SA) for who knows how long and they seem to be doing fine, so clearly they don't need humans
for all we know they can subside on like one human a year

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747675
Probably has more to do with the fact that she can't defend herself unlike Sumi

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747675
Merry is boyish enough they tried to claim her as a husband/breeding stock.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747894
in what world is that european women boyish?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747821
Apparently there are youkai who need human meat and others who don't (it is said that kogasa never attacked or ate a human).

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747929
Probably ferals. I don't think that kind that have to eat humans are actually mentioned overmuch

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747929
iirc it's specifically said that Kogasa uses fear instead

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747971
She's also a tool spirit, aside from turning on their owner they don't actually harm random people or eat anyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747971
Is there anyone in Gensokyo less scary than Kogasa?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747992
tokiko

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747719
why this happens?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748093
yukari only kidnaps rabid vorefags
this means that in the world of 2hu, a high enough number of the outside world population is into vore that she can kidnap enough humans to feed gensokyo's youkai without anyone noticing

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748108
Can I choose which hole I go into at least?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45743236
Man moment.
>>45745024
>>45746131
She has to get faith elsewhere or survived somehow else since there are at least centuries between Heca worship and Wicca, unless there's a lot of unwritten history out there.
>>45747209
> Nevermind trying to genocide the earth because some random bumblefuck fairy started kicking over fruit stalls on the moon
I thought it was only Gensokyo, but probably the only legit reason so far. Yet I think Moonie hate didn't increase after LoLK.
>>45747408
Probably the Japanese emperor descending from Amaterasu and such.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748148
you sound like a woman

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748169
Guess I should have written manly moment instead when laughing at the danger-boner correlation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748169
You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748148
please boobs pics

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747547
Nepo-ancestor's privilege, Yukari should've been impartial, especially regarding her past
Aya were right btw, Gensokyo for Gensokyoan, outsider should get the fuck out

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747601
My man zun bringing back Shintoism lite to the world single handedly, what a stud.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747388
Yeah, gensokyo is a very very very very carefully maintained "afraid enough" factory. Gensokyo is a daycare for youkai with humans as the infinite fear food source. Makes me wonder if youkai can change their fundamentals and turn into gods or various other things depending on the sources of emotion they feed on, or even if they can feed on anything other than fear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747433
Why humans?! Could they choose male youkais to create better species? What youkais do gain if they fuck humans? Hybrids that can't fight or abominations?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45749430
Humans are cute and rapeable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45749430
Have you ever tried to rape an immortal regenerating dude with superpowers? A human is a soft target.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45749459
Humans are NOT cute

>>45749504
A worth price if you wanna mantain a superior specie, destined to be the alpha in a waste land.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45749430
Consider that youkai were born from humanity's thoughts and fears.
Then consider that incest is prevalent in mythology and legends.
Surely you can put two and two together.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45749723
Humans are very cute to youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748946
>change their fundamentals and turn into gods or various other things depending on the sources of emotion they feed on, or even if they can feed on anything other than fear.
Its noted a good few times that gods that are simply feared will turn into youkai and youkai that do good things and amass faith turn into gods. Though in the case of both they change their nature and 'die'. Its why youkai and gods are very particular about their legends and reputations, its literally their entire existence.

The real question is that can they change their nature if the emotion fed is lust...

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748148
>She has to get faith elsewhere or survived somehow else since there are at least centuries between Heca worship and Wicca, unless there's a lot of unwritten history out there.
Could be. That's a major thing when you think about history as a whole. There's so much that we'll never know about because it wasn't written down or even if it was records were lost. And with regards to surviving as a god yeah the whole faith thing is overrated. Considering the 8 million (which could also be infinite) Kami that predated existence itself. Related is that there are yokai who live well outside Gensoyko and dont need human fear at all. Dunno if ZUN is as forgetful as usual or if it's an intentional thing and there's something that allows gods and yokai to exist without humans. Maybe if they're strong enough they can just exist on their own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45746777
>they don't bring in the logic pox
philosophers anon on suicide watch

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747700
So? Have you actually read the print work you were linked now? Are you ready to apologize?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45750825
You mean how its mentioned literally once and never again in PMiSS of all things? yeah okay

[Anonymous No.]

>>45750842
Once is not, and this is a direct quote, "never". Apologize.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45750848
Its PMiSS, might as well have never happened

[Anonymous No.]

>>45750852
Apologize.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45750862
Why should I apologize for telling the truth?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45750868
>You mean the ones that never actually show or even reference outsiders getting killed?
PMiSS references outsiders getting killed. Its veracity is not the subject of this conversation. You said there were no print works that referenced outsiders getting killed. You lied.

Apologize.

[Anonymous No.]

Holy shit I would never expect the mental gymnastics some of y'all are spouting, I thought it was common knowledge that Zou is writing an AU based on the initial PC lore + edge, not anything nu-2hu released in the 21st century

>>45750635
>>45748148
Remember that gods can 'eat' one another, Okina specifically is a bunch of different ones slapped together, and Hecate too seems to be a mash-up
Besides she's a foreigner, who knows how they do things - nevermind that if she is goddess of *the* Hell, not just Gensokyo's, she'd be eating faith of everything that believes in it
Plus she's natively the goddess of the same thing Yukari has a a domain, and the gap hag is extremely strong so it tracks someone above her would be too

[Anonymous No.]

>>45750842
>You mean how its mentioned literally once and never again in PMiSS of all things?
It's mentioned in the PCB prologue. PMISS. Symposium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748148
>She has to get faith elsewhere or survived somehow else since there are at least centuries between Heca worship and Wicca, unless there's a lot of unwritten history out there.
True. She might have been worshiped by magicians or something, since those exist in the Touhou verse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747636
Doesn't she also have a computer full of stuff involving Gensokyo? I remember reading that, but it has been a long time since I read her first appearance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747357
>it's like, you clearly can't have read them or you'd know how wrong that is unless you unironically think the kappa have a concentration camp in the mountains filled with suicidal people that they turn into canned food or that the human village is selecting sacrifices to give to the tengu (who are so xenophobic that no one's allowed to even see their city)
That is closer to canon than anything whitewashing most Youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45751045
She's posted pictures of danmaku on social media, I think, but nobody took it seriously.

It's really no different from what would happen if you did the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45751092
>but nobody took it seriously.
The assumption generally was that people would take it a lot more seriously if she vanished without a trace afterwards. Though, again, I might be remembering it wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45751115
Well, yes. And they could probably trace her to Gensokyo in such a case, if they but took the care to investigate, say, said social media posts. It's not like she's been covert about it. It's just that, as it stands, you might as well convince someone IRL about Gensokyo's existence yourself. So that part of it is not inherently a danger to Gensokyo. It'd only turn into one if she were to vanish.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45751022
The Gensokyo Record PCB prologue also mentions that Gensokyo is a paradise to humans as well since they have the power to fight back against youkai in the note made by the unverified 13th shrine maiden. It was also said by ZUN that this Gensokyo Record is unreliable and that this book is not capable of conveying the truth. So there could be youkai death squads going into the outside to round up humans, or it could be a fabrication to scare people. It's really just a collection of things that may or may not have any real basis; it could be truth, it could be some creative writing made up to scare children, it could be someone's musings on what happened, or it could be "source: I saw it in a dream". It's a collection of unreliable narrators speaking half-truths or spreading fallacies. Even youkai who were alive during all this history are unreliable since all you have is their word, Yukari for example can make shit up for shits and giggles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45751185
All of the sources are unreliable to some extent, the point is how consistent it's been. Every single time outsiders are mentioned their survival rate is made clear.

[Anonymous No.]

Rinnosuke looting people's corpse like it's fucking Skyrim, Yukari straight up admitting she's the one behind "spiriting away", and the whole Outsider stuff in more encyclopedic print works are pretty the definite proof that human still get routinely eaten

[Anonymous No.]

>>45752749
Rinnosuke as dragon born. He can eat multiple wheels of cheese in quick succession and can forge absurdly powerful iron daggers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45752749
off topic but I wanted to ask who is this girl

[Anonymous No.]

>>45753131
A kappa maybe? I don't think anyone else could fit the "like picking up gadgets" description. Although the issue comes down to what the fuck is she doing away from Genbu Ravine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45753593
>what the fuck is she doing away from Genbu Ravine
The hell you mean by that? Kappa is literally the local jooz there, always present when there's some profit to be made

[Anonymous No.]

>>45752749
>Rinnosuke looting people's corpse like it's fucking Skyrim
Looting cremated corpses is a bit hard, he is getting things from there because it's also the closest to the outside world.
>Yukari straight up admitting she's the one behind "spiriting away",
Fricking edgelord Yukari, glad someone at least mentions what she says instead of just saying that it's her character title or laughing at her for being a white woman(outside world must be grimdark for those guys).
>and the whole Outsider stuff in more encyclopedic print works are pretty the definite proof that human still get routinely eaten
And then CoLA chapter 10 is the funny contradicts PMiSS part I guess. Did we have any outsiders in the mangas? The only reference to them I remember right now was how they said that in the outside world they seem to drink and freeze to death, but that's not about outsiders in Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>45753750
Yukari is the least trustworthy person in the entirety of Gensokyo and her word is always questioned, I would not take a statement she makes about herself at face value.
Not to mention we never see of hear of any of these humans even in the Sakuya ending where Sakuya gets mad at her for supposedly keeping humans in her house.
She's just being edgy and fucking with people these statements cannot be used as evidence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45752749
>>45752786
>>45753750
Rinnosuke is a cute girl

[Anonymous No.]

>>45753870
That's Sakuya cosplaying with pa-

[Anonymous No.]

>>45753750
He's obviously lying, you dolt, and is just there to steal stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45753870
kek the reimu face

[Anonymous No.]

>>45753593
>>45753638
Yamawaro exist!

[Anonymous No.]

>>45754881
No, they do not.
Leave.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45747601
It always the Akuu posters who spit the truth

[Anonymous No.]

>>45753929
While he clearly seems to be there for the items they are not in the corpses, unless in Skyrim picking items close to a corpse counts as looting or dunno. Just pointing out that physically hard to loot a bunch of bones unless idk teeth implants and such.
>>45753831
I guess, idk why they pick the Sakuya's phantasm one since even in Marisa's phantasm there's actual human-food comparison. Dunno maybe there was some hate before that like with the moonies and the argumentation comes afterwards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715636
Whatever horrors Grimsokyo fags will ever think up will never be as bad as the actual reality of the human world here, so I don't care. Forcing it as canon is stupid, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45752749
>Rinnosuke looting people's corpse like it's fucking Skyrim
One of us! One of us!

[Anonymous No.]

>>45756996
Trying to forcefully make yourself look willfully ignorant is stupid, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45757228
I don't need that for anything, personally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45750985
>y'all
Out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45758013
what

[Anonymous No.]

ZUN wrote the description text on the left in that touhou TTRPG and it's funny how nearly every description location says that it's dangerous for humans to go somewhere

[Anonymous No.]

>>45758148
Out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45715786
The mangas have shown that most youkais are still feared and most of them hide the fact they are youkais when they go in the human village. Only some get away mostly during festivals and mostly organized/cilivized youkais like the Kappa.

>>45715863
It's not that bad, most youkais that aren't retarded understand it's important for humans to exist in order to perpetuate myths and superstitions that make the youkais what they are.
At the end of the day, it's what gensokyo is for: a huge "natural" reserve for youkai would couldn't live in the modern world. The humans there are only there for the sake of the youkai, but it's not that bad considering the Harukei shrine is there to prevent that balance from going too much into the youkai's favor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45761827
Wait there's Touhou tabletop?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45761955
>It's not that bad, most youkais that aren't retarded understand it's important for humans to exist in order to perpetuate myths and superstitions that make the youkais what they are.
What the fuck kind of logic is this? Why the fuck is every Gensokyo's defender only capable of saying "Oh sure, they aren't being actively being murdered for fun, they have outsiders for that, they are just cattle that are kept against their will." Imagine using this logic literally everywhere else. I could literally make this exact argument for every actual grimdark setting.

Almost every single person in Gensokyo would be happier without Youkai, and almost every single Youkai has done nothing but spread miserly and pain. It is THAT bad, and there is nothing defensible about Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45762872
Good bait, keep genocide posting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45762891
I'm serious. I'm so goddamn tired of this argument. You can literally apply it to 1984, the ur grimdark dystopian, but nobody would do that with as straight face.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45762905
This literally gets brought up in everyone of these threads ad we end up going in circles everytime, just read the last thread fellow american precision worker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45762872
>Almost every single person in Gensokyo would be happier without Youkai
While I do agree with your general point from an outside perspective, you have to keep in mind that Gensokyo's human population has been very carefully habituated to their current lifestyle. They are thoroughly complacent about their situation. If you asked them, most of them likely wouldn't want the troubles of the wider world (of which they do receive news from time to time) to infringe on their hamlet lives.

This isn't really an unusual attitude for a long-standing rural community. Youkai are just an added factor that has been woven into the usual, lazy human outlook.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45756996
The only difference between Outside World and Gensokyo is scale. Everything else is the same, the good and the bad.
>>45762927
NTA
Yes, and it will be brought up again, because for some reason people just don't get it.
See you next thread!

[Anonymous No.]

>>45762810
From what I've seen I don't think it's spectacular but it's worth a look, I'd personally try to use the anima beyond fantasy system, definitely for at least pre spell card rules gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>45762872
Damn, imagine if the story were half as bleak as you paint it to be. Thank goodness it isn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763243
Why is there a ladder that doesn't seem to be attached to anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45761827
Also, another point towards Byakuren's hypocricy - there's not a single human monk in Myoren Temple.
>>45763243
It's only not bleak because we're barely shown anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763243
My mans can't comprehend dark underbellies of society paralleling what is open, bright, fun, and good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763273
>there's not a single human monk in Myoren Temple
False, there is an entire chapter in whale manga that shows several humans there

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763273
>Also, another point towards Byakuren's hypocricy - there's not a single human monk in Myoren Temple.
The exerpt is about Moriya shrine, all that's mentioned about the Myoren temple is that it also gives spirits.
Not to mention we see human monks and worhsippers as background NPCs in the Manga.
And the most negative things said about the temple are from Akyuu and Aya, who both hate Buddhism and disagree with Byakuren's ideals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763298
>>45763308
Not in my version.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763257
That's a good question. What the fuck? That's a mistake I'd expect from an AI generated image.
>Also, another point towards Byakuren's hypocricy - there's not a single human monk in Myoren Temple.
Ugh. Hijiri hate boners are the worst. She's trying to rehabilitate otherwise dangerous yokai into becoming less dangerous. Which worked. The Myoren Temple crew eat very boring, basic food as they live like monks. No human meat at all. I have a feeling you're gonna try and trivialize this achievement anyway. And if that other guy is to be believed, there are humans there.
>It's only not bleak because we're barely shown anything.
We're shown a lot, if you're observant. You can't gloss over the numerous festivals they have each year, possessed Mokou eating out and buying expensive looking desserts, Keine protecting everyone present and teaching the youth and them having access to the best health care in existence at a cheap price. Even if they can't pay Eirin will still treat them. Oh and they pray to gods and get blessings. Oh and no mention of them ever starving or dying from disease. Unless you do have something like that.
>My mans can't comprehend dark underbellies of society paralleling what is open, bright, fun, and good.
Show me then. This isn't some dystopian sci fi setting, this a sci/fantasy hybrid setting that doesnt take itself as seriously as people think it does. Do you think the people in that image are all actors pretending to be happy because they know cutesokyofags are watching? All you grimniggers can do is appeal to logic and ignore what happens in the story. The setting seems more cute than grim. With the grim somewhat being there in the background, sometimes brought to the foreground.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763350
Weird, the temple has been shown and implied to be close or in the village at different points, the villagers knowing of them being youkai has also been implied or shown in the past.
Personally as this is not a canon source of information, and contradicts canon I wouldn't give it that much weight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763380
Maybe it doesn't contradict, although there are villagers who can go there for training, they can't live there like youkai do, I think that's what it means

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763393
>they can't live there like youkai do
for good reason

[Anonymous No.]

>>45762934
>If you asked them, most of them likely wouldn't want the troubles of the wider world (of which they do receive news from time to time) to infringe on their hamlet lives.
There is literally nothing to imply that. They are downright eager to absorb any bit of information they can find. A lot of them also go around wandering into danger pretty regularly.

>>45763243
The story is half as bleak as that. Not as bleak, mostly because Gensokyo is a tiny shitty corner of the world liable to get wiped out if anybody looked at it funny, but it is still bleak.

>>45762927
We are going in circles. But that's mostly just because the "Gensokyo isn't that grim" crowd seems to have totally given up and views anything above active murdering villager for kicks as not being grim.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763402
>There is literally nothing to imply that. They are downright eager to absorb any bit of information they can find. A lot of them also go around wandering into danger pretty regularly.
Don't forget about the suicide cult, damn poor subhuman rural villagers just looking to die by going to youkai musical concerts.
Doesn't Yukari know the internet is a human right, the human villagers whould be building cars not plowing fields.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763413
>Don't forget about the suicide cult, damn poor subhuman rural villagers just looking to die by going to youkai musical concerts.
I mean, that is a good example of what I mean. I don't really get the sense that the same people that go to there are so fucking against being able to move out of the village if they feel like it.

>Doesn't Yukari know the internet is a human right, the human villagers whould be building cars not plowing fields.
Not being trapped against your will is a human right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763355
Gensokyo is a piece of Meiji era Japan, it shouldn't be a stretch to acknowledge unseen and malicious forces controlling mankind as always being a thing, regardless if it's youkai running the show or people since youkai are straight up the dark manifestations of man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763423
But seriosuly, people have different standards for what counts as a Grim and Grimdark setting, and what justifies a race as being entirely evil or being needed to be Genocided.
If there isn't a shared standard of definition in an argument then of course there's going to be no resolution or convincing the other party.
Not to mention differing interpretations of canon, or preferred conflicting sources of information within canon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763452
And so we go around again and again retreading the same ground.
She won't let us leave. This is the real grimdark reality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763452
>But seriously, people have different standards for what counts as a Grim and Grimdark setting,
I don't think anybody would hold this kind of standard to any place if the inhabitants weren't mostly cute girls. People are still mad at the main character of Promised Neverland for not going full final solution on the not cute girl looking demons in that story, and those are genuinly less evil than Youkai.

>If there isn't a shared standard of definition in an argument then of course there's going to be no resolution or convincing the other party.
Sure. But why the fuck would you even bother defending it with "Yeah, they are cattle trapped against their will while numerous outsiders are most likely being slaughtered, but it's not THAT bad". What exactly would be the line that would make you go "Oh, it is that bad"? I want to say it's child murder, but by all accounts that line was crossed plenty already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763479
Truly we are the american precision worker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763483
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
If I skin a hundred people alive, people from these threads will forgive me, because I gave their grieving families some good hotdogs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763483
>Child murder
Ah yes I remember when Yukari Yakumi and Mystia ate a child on screen.
>>45753831

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763501
Here's your (you) kind sir, remember to make another Grimsokyo containment thread to keep baiting once this one is over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763452
The epic youkai genocide is the same act as removing the evils of mankind symbolically in the short term, youkai mostly ceased to exist on earth due to a lack of fear, but it's easy to argue the focus of fear shifted away from the things crawling in the night to whatever people worry about irl and make it real. Mankind as a whole won't climb out of their problems from fear until they learn to be brave.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763501
>If I skin a hundred people alive, people from these threads will forgive me, because I gave their grieving families some good hotdogs.
What?

>>45763502
>Ah yes I remember when Yukari Yakumi and Mystia ate a child on screen.
Sumireko was canonically kidnapped so we know they aren't above that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763509
Well, the fun of Youkai existing is ultimately that it can be genocided. If it's a temporary solution doesn't change the fact that you can engage in mostly guilt free extermination.

You can't fix the inner darkness. But you can kill all Youkai, liberate teh human village, and tear down the evil of gensokyo before it harms anybody. That's part of the reason why people tend to enjoy fiction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763514
I mean, Mystia is a literal serial killer and she's forgiven because af her overpriced lampreys. Surely this will work for me as well! After all, killing is good if you sell something to the victims!

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763509
That's silly, Youkai are a natural consequence of humans existing at all, the only way to totally kill them is to kill all of humanity.
The youkai of Gensokyo are just poorly adapted to the modern age, and it's been mentioned in canon that modern youkai are still being born outside and will eventually adapt to humanity.

>>45763514
Sumireko can't be used to prove anything either way, she is both a psychic and has fantasy syndrome so she isekais herself involuntarily, not to mention Yukari's interest in her.
For whatever reason Yukari is interested in her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763534
>she is both a psychic and has fantasy syndrome so she isekais herself involuntari
She was teleported to Gensokyo as a child and nothing seems to imply that was because of that.

>not to mention Yukari's interest in her.
I thought she was unreliable. If you want to talk about Yukari's interests, there are plenty I could mention that imply none too good things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763525
>You can't fix the inner darkness.
I believe it can be done on an individual level, but collectively? That's a little tough innit? Byakuren despite her flaws is one of the best things to happen to gensokyo, to upset that "natural" order one believer at a time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763563
She tries but is ultimately too weak on Youkai to actually make it happen. They are a race of manchildren, and as they spare the rod spoil the child.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763553
Again, using an exception induvidual who has a power that isekais herself to Genoskyo as evidence of average behavior, is flawed. I have reason to believe she isekaied herself because she literally does that.
Excluding that, Yukari has shown a special interest on her so she cannot be used as an example of average, she it literally an exception, not the rule.
Yukari's statements are unreliable, her actions are not, I wouldn't trust her words, but her actions do speak volumes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763586
Good things take an obnoxious amount of time and energy, but they can and almost definitely will happen, like a plant growing through concrete.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763586
You say that, but Byakuren is literally working on the behalf of a Budha who got his position due to how good at killing youkai he is.
He is the number 1 person who should be the killing youkai bandwagon and yet he supports Byakuren endeavors regardless.
So yeah while we can say it's pointless or too difficult, clearly there are people, highly educated people biased against youkai who believe it is possible.
Not to mention Kanako's and Miko's rebuttal isn't that her plan won't work, it's that her plan wouldn't work towards their political ends.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763630
Of course he's in favor of her efforts, killing youkai forever is a worthwhile pursuit, to put an end to the fighting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763661
Honestly I can't wait until Byakuren genocide all of those filthy fucking subhuman youkai!
Damn brats need genocide correction.
Honestly I've seen better bait, try harder next time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763680
I don't think you can properly identify bait and just falsely made up a lot of my argument in your head, lmao.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763606
>Again, using an exception induvidual who has a power that isekais herself to Genoskyo as evidence of average behavio
She was a little kid when it happened.

>she it literally an exception, not the rule.
I mean, even if you accept that, that still means the line of child abduction was crossed and child murder was a possibility.

>>45763630
>>45763609
I don't have much faith in her plan, but if you want to delude yourself into thinking otherwise feel free.

>Not to mention Kanako's and Miko's rebuttal isn't that her plan won't work, it's that her plan wouldn't work towards their political ends.
No. Their rebuttals are that the idea is inherently laughable. You could argue they are wrong in that extent, but that is different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763707
To be fair, your post implies that Byakuren wants to kill all youkai, how am I not supposed to make fun of that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763730
Too bring a drastic change to youkai to no longer run on human fear to function is killing them as youkai on a functional level.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763724
What do you mean she was a child? People are born psychics, she was literally born an exceptional individual, and Yukari has an interest in her for some reason.
So I don't think Sumireko can be used as proof of youkai either way of for a grimer or lighter interpretation of canon.
If we do use her, then we can argue that even when she caused a major incident with long reaching ramifications she wasn't punished more than being generally terrorized in a non-lethal manor, despite her being an outsider.
Therefore youkai are unlikely to hurt even outsiders, even in the case of a major incident.
But yes, Byakuren's chance of success are up to personal interpretation.

>>45763773
Transcending a previous demonic state of being into a non-demonic one isn't equivalent to death, and doing so en-mass isn't equivalent to genocide.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763790
>What do you mean she was a child?
It was before she started regularly traveling to Gensokyo like she is a adult.

>If we do use her, then we can argue that even when she caused a major incident with long reaching ramifications she wasn't punished more than being generally terrorized in a non-lethal manor, despite her being an outsider.
Mostly BECAUSE she had a actual life on the outside world and people would have noticed if she just vanished without a trace with a hard drive full of stuff involving Gensokyo.

>Therefore youkai are unlikely to hurt even outsiders, even in the case of a major incident.
No, they are unlikely to abduct people that are easily missed. Which, we know already. That was established early on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763790
>Transcending a previous demonic state of being into a non-demonic one isn't equivalent to death
I'm a firm believer in change equating to death and vice versa, I think a decent chunk of it is semantics but symbolically it's very relevant. The killing of youkai is the killing of one of evils many forms, a youkai rejecting fear and deciding to absorb human faith would bring them to kami status. I'd argue in that scenario and many like it that go unwritten result in the death of a youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763840
What are you talking about, we never hear about her life in the outside world, other than the fact that she's a friendless loser who nobody believes.
Not only that, but she invaded Gensokyo, instigated the creation of Urban Legends, a more advanced form of the proto-youkai in the outside world, in a situationthat involved Lunarians. There's a difference between only kidnaping people who won't be missed, and sparing a person who isn't protected by any of your laws and caused a huge incident.
The easiest way of squaring the circle is just saying that Sumireko is an exceptional person with exceptional circumstances who isekaied herself by accident as a child due to being psychic, and can't be used as evidence wither way, because if you don't it brings in more contradictions.
You could also say that Yukari Isekaied her due to time travel merry and renko related reasons, but the core point is trying to use sumireko as an example introduces more problems and contradictions that it solves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763921
>What are you talking about, we never hear about her life in the outside world, other than the fact that she's a friendless loser who nobody believes.
She isn't a person that could just vanish without drawing some attention. She's not even a hopeless neet or anything, just kind of a unpopular high schooler.

>There's a difference between only kidnaping people who won't be missed, and sparing a person who isn't protected by any of your laws and caused a huge incident.
Correct. Which is ultimately that it wasn't worth killing her.

>The easiest way of squaring the circle is just saying that Sumireko is an exceptional person with exceptional circumstances who isekaied herself by accident as a child due to being psychic, and can't be used as evidence wither way, because if you don't it brings in more contradictions.
No, the easiest way is to simply say that she wasn't easily missed. We know exceptional people get isekai'd and that their life is seemingly in danger. There is nothing to imply that Maribel for instance wouldn't have died if she hadn't run away from the youkai she encountered.

Again, this is explained pretty well in the story. Sumireko is a noticeable case even outside of her powers. There is also the fact that she's still being escorted around, partially to keep her out of danger. Even if you want to argue they are just keeping a eye on her, which is debatable, that's not a privilege extended to anybody else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763978
>She isn't a person that could just vanish without drawing some attention. She's not even a hopeless neet or anything, just kind of a unpopular high schooler.
Yes, but there wouldn't be any big search to find her, and there would be no leads, she'd just be another cold case that went nowhere, it's not like it'd be hard to swipe her hard drive and people in the outside already don't think Gensokyo exists so those would be dismissed as delusions.
>Correct. Which is ultimately that it wasn't worth killing her.
My point was that it is worth killing her, she invaded Gensokyo, caused a lot of problems, isn't protected by any of Gensokyo rules, and would be easily killed by any of the notable residents of Gensokyo.
They have more reason to kill her than they do a random neet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764028
>and there would be no leads,
She literally has a hard drive filled with leads.

>it's not like it'd be hard to swipe her hard drive and people in the outside already don't think Gensokyo exists so those would be dismissed as delusions.
You do realize that there are plenty of people in the outside world that would probably be able to go "Oh yeah, I was in Gensokyo" if she went missing, her hard drive was discovered, and the existence of youkai became public.

>My point was that it is worth killing her
It really wasn't. Outside of a sense of justice that Youkai lack anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764068
>"Oh yeah, I was in Gensokyo"
So? We know the outside world largely doesn't believe in Gensokyo, so they would be dismissed as crazy people.
It would also depedn on how many people are isekaied and how many survive, if there are enough where it would be easily surmised Sumi died to Youkai I think Gensokyo would already be public knowledge.
>It really wasn't. Outside of a sense of justice that Youkai lack anyway.
What do you mean it wasn't it was, and a sense of justice has nothing to do with it, she literally threatened everyone.
If youkai are willing to kill a person who has done no wrong for their personal benefit or satisfaction I expect them to act the same to a person who actually gave them a reason to be hostile.
Sumireko literally caused a mjaot incident that was never resolved as the Urban Legends are still hanging around and the barrier of the Lunar Capital and Gensokyo are still connected.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764068
>She literally has a hard drive filled with leads.
That is all useless since Gensokyo is hidden, not public knowledge, and its all magic and fantasy shit that will be discounted as a neat photoshop project because magic isn't real. The police will write it off as another missing person case before ever considering magic as valid evidence.
>You do realize that there are plenty of people in the outside world that would probably be able to go "Oh yeah, I was in Gensokyo" if she went missing, her hard drive was discovered, and the existence of youkai became public.
"Those people would unanimously say that the person was crazy, and would be believed by no one. They'd claim things like "I saw Togenkyo", or "I went to Houraisan"."

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764028
Sumireko is probably alive due to being an ancestor to renko, which yukari is "probably" aware of regardless of how the actual canon will end up between Yukari and Maribel

[Anonymous No.]

>>45763257
>>45763355
>Why is there a ladder that doesn't seem to be attached to anything.
Ladders are pretty useful if you can move them around and such.
Edo firemen used them a lot but I think that putting one completely vertical is only for acrobatic shows I think. But I'm not sure since when the ladder acrobatics thing started in Japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764272
Seems like a weird place to put it and i dont recall villagers doing acrobatics.

[Anonymous No.]

>Gensokyo is a tiny shitty corner of the world liable to get wiped out if anybody looked at it funny, but it is still bleak.
Some of the strongest earthlings reside in a fantastical place that defies physics. Supernatural beings beside yokai like gods who have an interest in keeping the place around. It's little bit more than just a ''tiny shitty corner of the world''. And no, it's not exactly bleak. Can you people please READ the print works, observe canon images and happenings. You never even addressed anything i said with regards to the village, the things they do for fun, the people protecting them or their access to Eientei. If you want a truly Grimdank setting then read 40k or Warhammer Fantasy.
>>45763430
Yeah that is true to an extent but dont ignore everything I said. Look at what actually happens in the setting as opposed to citing loominati confirmed alex jones type shit. If you're gonna lean on that sort of thing then dont forget that applies to the Outside World as well. So it's a moot point. At the very least the elites who created the Human Village don't try to control every aspect of it and feed it's populace artificial ''food'' and pollute their land on top of that. Unlike a certain Outside World.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764102
>if there are enough where it would be easily surmised Sumi died to Youkai I think Gensokyo would already be public knowledge.
It wouldn't be easily surmised, but it would be a pretty big clue that might make it more likely the place would be discovered. It's pointless risk.

>What do you mean it wasn't it was, and a sense of justice has nothing to do with it, she literally threatened everyone.
Until she tried to break the barrier, most of her threats were empty. She didn't go around killing people. When she did, Reimu stopped her quickly. She might be a cold women, but even I don't think she would just kill Sumireko outright.

>>45764107
>"Those people would unanimously say that the person was crazy, and would be believed by no one. They'd claim things like "I saw Togenkyo", or "I went to Houraisan"."
That's going to be a bit harder to do when a person just vanished with a hard drive full of evidence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764443
>Some of the strongest earthlings reside in a fantastical place that defies physics.
No, they live in East City.

>Supernatural beings beside yokai like gods who have an interest in keeping the place around.
Most of the gods who go there are basically children even compared to somebody like Hecate.

>It's little bit more than just a ''tiny shitty corner of the world''
If Gensokyo went away literally nothing would change even for most gods.

>Can you people please READ the print works, observe canon images and happenings.
I have. Thus my conclusion.

>the things they do for fun
You do realize they could literally do all of those, right.

>the people protecting them
Protection racket.

>or their access to Eientei.
That is the one good thing.

>If you want a truly Grimdank setting then read 40k or Warhammer Fantasy.
It's hilarious because every single argument you just made I COULD make for 40K and the Imperium of Man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45762872
>grimdark
Wont say that Touhou isn't dark, but your average shounen and capeshit seems much worse for the average Joe so calling it grimdark feels like too much. Especially when people talk about the villagers and not the outsiders.
>>45763483
>I don't think anybody would hold this kind of standard to any place if the inhabitants weren't mostly cute girls. People are still mad at the main character of Promised Neverland for not going full final solution on the not cute girl looking demons in that story, and those are genuinly less evil than Youkai.
The ones that literally had human factories? I understand comparable, but how are they genuinely less evil?
Considering the years of glorifying Fortune teller but calling Marisa instantly a race traitor it might have the opposite effect for some. Not that simps won't still justify scum like Esdeath, but I guess people sometimes care more about potential self inserts or something like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764473
>That's going to be a bit harder to do when a person just vanished with a hard drive full of evidence.
What are they gonna, use their psychic powers they don't have, pray to the gods they don't believe in, use they magic they deny the existence of?
Maybe go to the place they don't believe exists? The fact is the outside world is a place which does not acknowledge and is resistant towards the idea of magical exsistances, they are more likely to explain away the magic then believe it.
Sumireko would just be another crazy person who becomes a cold case, assuming they even get her hard drive and it isn't destroyed by whoever killed her.
>Until she tried to break the barrier, most of her threats were empty.
She still tried to break the barrier and unironically became one of the biggest threats to Gensokyo and antagonize everyone.
Trying to use Sumi as evidence for a grimgensokyo creates more problems with grimsokyo than it solves, as I've said before.
not to mention literally all youkai have an investment in the barrier as they need it to live.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764302
Maybe the author was just a fan of those acrobatic shows and put is as an "easter egg". I'm not to familiar with that stuff myself but it's the first thing that came to my mind when seeing that, and now that I think of I'm not even sure how the firefighters stored their long ass ladders.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764473
>That's going to be a bit harder to do when a person just vanished with a hard drive full of evidence.
Reading comprehension isn't your strongsuit since this was just addressed.
>its all magic and fantasy shit that will be discounted as a neat photoshop project because magic isn't real. The police will write it off as another missing person case before ever considering magic as valid evidence.
This hard drive will be thrown out as some high school girls CGI project or something similar. You would be woefully naive to assume the police would pursue missing person cases concerning magic and places that don't exist. Missing people from spiriting away is a drop in the bucket compared to human trafficking. What do you expect them to do with this "evidence" anyway? What grand detective work could some underfunded police department do? If they somehow triangulate Gensokyo's location from these images, they'd find nothing because the barrier prevents them, plain and simple. This would be like someone getting abducted by a UFO, no one will take it seriously and there will be no effort made.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764529
Like I said, I don't think Touhou is grimdark. It's close for the villagers, but ultimately grimdark to me is defined by a lack of hope and that's not Touhou.

>I understand comparable, but how are they genuinely less evil?
They are given way more humanity and maturity in their behavior. Yeah, some of them are evil or corrupt, but they are evil and corrupt in a very human like manner. They also have a, actual justification for murdering and eating humans besides "Them tasty". Most Youkai by contrast are more like a cross between Mr. Teatime from Discworld and a Tzeentch daemon. Psychotic man-children that get their kick out of toying with the lives of people for fun.

>Considering the years of glorifying Fortune teller but calling Marisa instantly a race traitor it might have the opposite effect for some.
I rarely see that. Most Marisa bullying just focuses on her being small and losing fights. I'm sure it happens, but it's far from normal. Especially compared to other fandoms like Reimu or Yukari who pretend all of the bad stuff just doesn't happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764591
>What are they gonna
Try and investigate? Once they start taking things seriously, they'll have Gensokyo cracked open pretty quickly. Especially considering most major gods are still around. Enough praying to a major deity would probably turn Gensokyo into a crater overnight.

>and it isn't destroyed by whoever killed her.
Who would that be? Kasen? Mamizou? Byakuren? Of those, only one is even liable to even know what a hard drive is.

>She still tried to break the barrier and unironically became one of the biggest threats to Gensokyo and antagonize everyone.
The moment she became a threat, she was beaten and the matter was largely settled.

>Trying to use Sumi as evidence for a grimgensokyo creates more problems with grimsokyo than it solves, as I've said before.
Again, the reasons why they don't kill her are mentioned in universe.

>not to mention literally all youkai have an investment in the barrier as they need it to live.
Almost all Youkai are retarded manchildren. Yukari is probably more responsible for the barrier existing than any other person, and she gets zero respect from anybody. Most Youkai are laughing behind her back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764638
Youkai need humans to exist, be it their fear, flesh, belief or what have you, and they are the consequence of humans existing in the first place.
There's your justification.
They have societies, factions, political positions, and are pretty immediately incomprehensible.
Like the Tengu and Kappa don't like it when people invade their territory and like writing newspapers and building inventions as a hobby.
Fairy's are humanized child-like aspects of nature that like to play pranks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764604
>you would be woefully naive to assume the police would pursue missing person cases concerning magic and places that don't exist.
Anon, if it became public knowledge that 1: A girl was talking about Gensokyo. 2: A girl had a hard drive filled with photos of Youkai. 3: She vanished without a trace. There would be millions upon millions of people who would believe Gensokyo was responsible. There are people right now who believe in conspiracy theories with not even half that evidence. Millions of them, in fact. Youkai would risk that because... She was annoying?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764684
>There's your justification.
That does not justify locking them against their will, and it most certainly does not justify killing outsiders.

>They have societies, factions, political positions
1: Those are the exceptions proving the rule. 2: Most of them still act like psychopathic children regardless. See most Tengu, most Kappa, most Oni, most any species really.

>Fairy's are humanized child-like aspects of nature that like to play pranks.
Fairies like to play pranks. Youkai are children that don't understand the difference between throwing a rock at a cat and setting it on fire.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764714
When comparing them to the demons to the promised Neverland, which is what we are doing here, they literally commit evil on a smaller scale and have a greater excuse.
Does it entirely excuse their actions, no. But that's not what I'm trying to do, I'm answering your question here.
And yes Youkai literally understand the difference between throwing a rock and setting a cat on fire, they keep their shit on the down low and don't stir up trouble like that because they can tell the difference.
The rules of Gensokyo wouldn't exist as they are if they didn't.

[Anonymous No.]

i've always had this theory that youkai still exist in the outside world (many people believe in demons, devils, djinns and so on), but the only thing preventing them from manifesting physically as in the case of Gensokyo is due to the presence of materialistic science

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764714
Nta but uh, humans are their one singular anchor for existing, most of them straight up won't survive without humans, in the youkai shoes keeping them captive for long term security is justification. Outsiders on the other hand have a huge potential to threaten the stability that is gensokyo, better to kill them off and use them as food for the lesser youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764664
That's just pure outside world wank, they don't even know the basics of magic and the major gods have let Gensokto exist as is already.
It's not like they are ignorant of it's existence.
Not to mention a person does not need to know what something is exactly to know it holds information and is a danger, a person does not need to understand what a gun is to understand the threat it poses.
Generally when someone points something at you and acts threatning you can assume they plan to use the thing as a weapon, not to mention Gensokyo has magic computers in the form of Shikigami which are far more advanced in some areas than computers, so the concept isn't foreign to them.
>Almost all Youkai are retarded manchildren. Yukari is probably more responsible for the barrier existing than any other person, and she gets zero respect from anybody. Most Youkai are laughing behind her back.
Almost pure Fanon, we know that, her close friends know that, but to most people she's very threatening due to how powerful she is.

>>45764687
Conspiracy theorists would believe it, but would it be mainstream? Would the police even be able to do anything about it, and when talking about risks leaving the girl who threatened all of Genokyo alive when you casually kill much weaker people for nothing is silly.
Not to mention Yukari knows what a hardrive is and could just gap it away.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764638
>They are given way more humanity and maturity in their behavior. Yeah, some of them are evil or corrupt, but they are evil and corrupt in a very human like manner.
If youkai did as we do with cattle it would be less dark? I thought le youkai needed humans just to exist. The PW demons where reduced to animals if they didn't eat human flesh, but they could life without humans iirc.
> Mr. Teatime from Discworld and a Tzeentch daemon. Psychotic man-children that get their kick out of toying with the lives of people for fun.
Huh? I think your exaggerating a little bit there.
>I rarely see that.
I mean anons really like their bulling, but if you mention Marisa in the topic of leaving humanity people will consider her a traitor citing at best PMiSS. Dunno maybe it's being a short nonhuman what's bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765013
If youkai had to eat humans to survive, you wouldn't be able to bribe them with other meat and offerings. You can shoo away a beast youkai by giving it some jerky. Offer them a chicken, pig, or cow and they'll leave you alone for a while. It's a big unorganized extortion racket really. Give them attention, toss them some snacks, and inflate their ego and they'll be on their way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765113
Anon, youkai needing humans to exist is literally the most consistent thing about the setting.
Some of them just need human meat for dietary reasons, some don't eat meat and just survive off fear, but the point being they need humans and I don't know how you can be a touhou fan arguing about lore and not know that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765113
So fear eating beings and wild hungry animal equivalents put the human village close to grimdark?
And is somehow worse than demons in promised wonderland?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765146
By threatening and effectively robbing you they are collecting your fear. You could encounter several youkai and run out of things to offer them, at which point all you can do is either run or pray. The point was that they don't necessarily live off human meat, because if they did they would ignore whatever food substitute you offered and take an arm, leg, or your head instead. Getting your spirit and fear and whatever you've got on hand to fill their stomach is good enough. Youkai are defined by needing to prey on humans, this takes more shapes than just a simple attacking and eating them, though this is still a valid option since it generates fear and spirit all the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765225
Nta but basically yeah, I recall a snippet somewhere that it's been a long good while since a villager was murdered by a youkai. The system in gensokyo atm seems to work well enough as is with a very low and steady supply of outsiders that yukari picks or who happens to stumble over for the real meat and potatoes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765225
This, youkai are parasites in the literal sense, they can't create anything of their own, they get meat from humans, they flex their pride on humans, they steal and imitate technology from humans, unlike gods, they have absolutely zero benefit to humans, all of their actions is driven by selfishness alone
>b-but they prevent disasters from reaching humans
so that they prevent them from getting the sweet release of death and keep tormenting them longer on

[Anonymous No.]

>>45748093
So Akyuu says that youkai still eat humans
>>45753750
Rinnosuke says that they no longer eat humans

So, who is the unreliable narrator here and why is it ZUN ?
Hope the whole Mizuchi thing gives us more info about how stuff really works in present Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764746
>And yes Youkai literally understand the difference between throwing a rock and setting a cat on fire, they keep their shit on the down low and don't stir up trouble like that because they can tell the difference.
The Youkai sages understand that difference. Of which only two are Youkai, and one might not have always been that way.

> they literally commit evil on a smaller scale and have a greater excuse.
I would agree with the former but not the latter. Which I think is more damming in the long term.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764806
>Outsiders on the other hand have a huge potential to threaten the stability that is gensokyo, better to kill them off and use them as food for the lesser youkai.
To be sure, which is one of the reasons why Sumireko is escorted around. But if it was as bad as you claim, then they wouldn't let a single human leave Gensokyo alive.

>That's just pure outside world wank,
No? I mean ,even ignoring the moon war stuff that is debatably canon. We know that many gods are leagues ahead of Gensokyo. It's debatable how willing they would be to comply with the wishes of their followers to squash the place, but it would most likely give them some doubt.

>a person does not need to understand what a gun is to understand the threat it poses.
Yeah, they do.

>so the concept isn't foreign to them.
The person that makes that comparision is Yukari, who knows plenty about the outside world. Assuming that any random Youkai is capable of 1: Knowing what a computer is. 2: Finding Sumireko's adress. 3: Destroying the hard-drive. is insane.

> but to most people she's very threatening due to how powerful she is.
Neither Wriggle or Mystia show any concern when dealing with her. Nor does most of the cast in the fighting game.

>Conspiracy theorists would believe it, but would it be mainstream?
It would be a risk Gensokyo does not need.

>and when talking about risks leaving the girl who threatened all of Genokyo alive when you casually kill much weaker people for nothing is silly.
Like? The Youkai sages are evil, and I guess you could argue Yukari might do that if you believe her words in PCB. But outside of arguably fortune teller, I don't see any of the people involved with that incident doing so.

>Not to mention Yukari knows what a hardrive is and could just gap it away.
Yeah, and if you want to argue that it's weird Yukari personally didn't murder Sumireko you might have a point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765013
>The PW demons where reduced to animals if they didn't eat human flesh, but they could life without humans iirc.
Death of personality is arguably the same as death. Like I said, I'm willing to give them some slack because they had a excuse and, when given the choice to do something else, they took it (With some drama). I would be kinder towards Youkai if they 1: needed human flesh to not die. 2: Actually came across as people instead of evil monsters.

>I think your exaggerating a little bit there.
>It is a playful and wreckful mind that lies behind the birdlike gaze of the Lord of Change, deeply intelligent, yet as uncaring of consequence as it is fascinated by it. The Lord of Change is like a child playing upon some gigantic anthill, poking with a stick at its inhabitants and laughing at the hopeless antics of their defense
That does basically sum up the mindset of most Youkai. Even most of the cast, and those are the better ones for the most part..

>but if you mention Marisa in the topic of leaving humanity people will consider her a traitor citing at best PMiSS.
Magicians are kind of a special case anyway. Either way though, I rarely see it so I can't really comment on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765215
>So fear eating beings and wild hungry animal equivalents put the human village close to grimdark?
Yeah? Why would it not? What would it take for it to be grimdark, according to you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45765563
Most likely Rinnosuke considering Youkai eating outsiders is mentioned plenty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766187
The point is, if for some reason Sumireko died, it could be easily covered up and that trying to use her as an example for gensokyo being grim or not isn't very reliable since she's an exception to the rule.
So yes I am saying that
>Yeah, and if you want to argue that it's weird Yukari personally didn't murder Sumireko you might have a point.
Which is what I'm arguing, sorry if that got lost in the replies, also again, the outside world rejects the idea of Gensokyo.
The barrier is literally defined by what the outside world rejects and accepts, so the outside world by default does not believe in the existence of Gensokyo as the consensus.
You would have to work past that consensus and prove without a doubt it.
A single cold case isn't going to do that, especially when a person is going to be more comfortable with their already existing world view and just think Sumi is crazy.
Also schizos already think Gensokyo exist, at least in the future of Gensokyo's earth, and it doesn't cause any problems.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766254
>Yeah, and if you want to argue that it's weird Yukari personally didn't murder Sumireko you might have a point.
>The barrier is literally defined by what the outside world rejects and accepts, so the outside world by default does not believe in the existence of Gensokyo as the consensus.
That by itself is already a damn good reason why Yukari wouldn't kill Sumireko even ignoring anything else.
>A single cold case isn't going to do that, especially when a person is going to be more comfortable with their already existing world view and just think Sumi is crazy.
My point is that it's not a single cold case. A girl going missing like that would draw unneeded attention to Gensokyo that it doesn't need. Even if you want to argue Yukari could very easily kill Sumireko and disable her hard drive, not impossible, she literally wasn't involved with the incident and it was resolved before it was necessary.

And ultimately, to bring your conversation back, if your only argument is that a special case like Sumireko is the exception then by default you have already admitted the grim reality that if she wasn't a special case she would just be murdered outright.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766294
I'm not arguing about whether Gensokyo is grim or not, I've said this before, I just don't think Sumireko is a good example for either a grim or non-grim argument as she is an exception to the rule either way.
My point about the consensuses was is that it'd be hard to eject the entirety of Gensokyo from the barrier, and that some schizos already believe it exists.
You woud have to convince a vast majoirty of humanity that Gensokyo exists for it to be ejected from the barrier, and one cold case that does not make.
They would have no leads, no clues, and the detectives wouldn't automatically assume Gensokyo is real and be suspicious of it off the bat.
As said earilier they'd think she's crazy and dismiss Gensokyo and fantastical things as a vast majority of humans already do in the earth of Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766320
>You woud have to convince a vast majoirty of humanity that Gensokyo exists for it to be ejected from the barrier, and one cold case that does not make.
The issue is that it's not going to be one cold case for the most part. And like I said, a ton of people already believe in stupid shit. Gensokyo is pretty fucking fragile as it is without a few million outsiders believing it's real.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766393
The problem with saying that is the in universe lore, it doesn't matter what would happen "realistically" or how much dumb shit people believe in real life.
In universe, you'd be acting against tin entirety of human consensus, itself a supernatural force, to try to prove the existence of Gensokyo.
A force so strong, not even the literal superpowered youkai could overcome it, not to mention the outsiders who do believe in Gensokyo, but have failed to make a dent in the barrier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766453
>The problem with saying that is the in universe lore
Well, in universe, it was explicitly mentioned they did not want to kill her because they were worried it might cause issues. So, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766491
That using Sumireko for a grim or not grim-sokyo argument is flawed due to contradictions and it's better to handwave her away from the discussion, because no matter what you run into a contradiction or something that doesn't make sense.
I have a preferred explanation, and I find canons unsatisfactory because I don't think it fully makes sense when taking everything into account.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766542
>because no matter what you run into a contradiction or something that doesn't make sense.
Not really. Though if you really want to go down that route doesn't the same apply to every other outsider?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766545
Well, for other outsiders, we know some people randomly fall in and either die or get sent back home, some fall through the Road of Reconsideration and either die or not, some are probably gapped in and those one are really crazy.
Which makes sense to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766556
Yeah, but the former is liable to be easily noticed, the middle is confusing since how would they go back if they reconsider their decision, and the latter just seem like trouble in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766556
The ones who get gapped in, really is a mystery as to why she would invite them as either dinner or a genuine guest for the village, but for those that become a meal it could be a case of them being genuine threats to the barrier, or depending on your Maribel head cannon, revenge. Hifuu appears to be a lunarian future victory of some kind so maybe yukari is minimizing lunarian influence on key areas in the outside world, maybe.

[Anonymous No.]

A lewdsokyo with a grimsokyo paint.
I love monstrous women.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45764514
>No, they live in East City.|
Not funny. Weak attempt at a joke makes me think this bait but its too retarded to not address i guess ill fall for it.
>Most of the gods who go there are basically children even compared to somebody like Hecate.
Relatively in terms of power i guess? Doesn't stop almost everyone else who isnt Hecate from being children compared to said reality warping gods. Suwako can curse us all with herpes, genital warts and AIDS, then kill us and we'd be shit out of luck.
>I have. Thus my conclusion.
Try reading the books whilst right side up and while being sober
>You do realize they could literally do all of those, right.
An alleged Grimshart setting where the oppressed villagers can fuck around and have fun and have multiple expansive festivals per year? Damn.
>Protection racket.
Except this ''racket'' can't harm people like normal ones can because of how valuable the villagers are. Ever see an italian mobster movie where the criminals just spook people like they're fat Italian Kogasa's and that's it? Next to no actual theft, bodily harm and property damage? If anything Gensokyo is protecting the villagers from the horrors of modernity while giving them some of the benefits of modernity (like great health care).
>That is the one good thing.
One amongst many.
>It's hilarious because every single argument you just made I COULD make for 40K and the Imperium of Man.
I'm sorry but this is completely retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766227
Something closer to Berserk or Goblin slayer. Wild animals and fear mongering kinda exist irl.
idk what is your favourite grimdark setting 2020 or Australia?

[Anonymous No.]

>>45767509
2024. Sit back and watch all the crazy shit. Hell we started off this year with a certain people of the chosen variety dwelling in sewers! This year is going to suck! Although Australia is a close second.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766217
Isn't the no dependence on meat what Byakuren tries to do and what Kasen did to those soon to be youkai that tried human meat? I mean them also going for easier meals doesn't necessarily mean it's a requirement, some people learned that just rice doesn't cover all nutritional needs the hard way.
The conflict being at a larger scale and the upper classes just keeping the human factories for their own interest make it to me seem a bit darker.
I guess that the plot of a story reaching an end lightens the setting making series that are doing good and still getting milked is worse since conflict goes on. Ironic I guess.
>>45766217
>That does basically sum up the mindset of most Youkai. Even most of the cast, and those are the better ones for the most part..
When did anyone do anything that deranged spycho level? Remi maybe in the vampire incident, and probably Yukari at some point. But while most talk like edgelords for a living... Dunno being a mobbu kyara kinda sucks more in your average shounen/capeshit stuff than a villager in Gensokyo. And your average badguy tends to kill people just for shit's and jiggles, on top of that MC might go "killing is le bad" against le big bad.
>Magicians are kind of a special case anyway.
Completely agree on that. People will still keep saying magicians are still youkai like those that prey on humans... Wish ZUN/Akyuu where more specific with classifications.

> I don't think Touhou is grimdark. It's close for the villagers,
Mostly just my rant answering this. I don't think villagers have ever been showed or implied to be doing that bad unless I'm forgetting something, but in your average setting non name characters get fucked pretty badly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45766784
Well I guess it just works out, the outsiders oblivious haven't changed the consensus and for all we know the Reimu could wipe their memories, she could ask niceley, or since Gensokyo I rejected by consensus the memories of it fade supernaturally.
Either way they obviously have a solution.
For the carzies, they want to die via youkai, but are scared of ghosts for some reasons, maybe cultists of the teenage internet slenderman variety>

[Anonymous No.]

>>45767449
>Not funny.
Disagree.

>Suwako can curse us all with herpes, genital warts and AIDS, then kill us and we'd be shit out of luck.
She can't. Old fanwank with no bearing in canon.

>Try reading the books whilst right side up and while being sober
Again, I have. Now post a actual argument.

>An alleged Grimshart setting where the oppressed villagers can fuck around and have fun and have multiple expansive festivals per year?
Yeah? Even 1984 has people enjoying shitty crime novels.

>Except this ''racket'' can't harm people like normal ones can because of how valuable the villagers are.
It's harming them by keeping them trapped.

>One amongst many.
Only one.

>I'm sorry but this is completely retarded.
Why? Because I very much could. Literally every single argument you made applies to the Imperium of Man. Fuck, it applies to the government of 1984.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45767509
>Something closer to Berserk or Goblin slayer
If you mean "rape exists". Outsiders might get raped.

>Wild animals and fear mongering kinda exist irl.
Not to the extent they do in Gensokyo.

>idk what is your favourite grimdark setting 2020 or Australia?
Probably Shinsekai Yori. Which is pretty close to Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45767955
>Isn't the no dependence on meat what Byakuren tries to do and what Kasen did to those soon to be youkai that tried human meat?
Youkai have never, and I do mean NEVER been shown to be dependent on eating human meat. It's not a dependency in the first place. Not even a vague requirement. As early as PCB, and never contradicted afterwards, it's a want not a need.

>The conflict being at a larger scale and the upper classes just keeping the human factories for their own interest make it to me seem a bit darker.
Yes, it SEEMS darker. The thing about Touhou is that it doesn't SEEM dark. My point is that it actually is dark. More dark in fact than several actual pseudo horror series.

>When did anyone do anything that deranged spycho level?
A lot of minor Youkai are basically just serial killers in their mindset. Not very complicated or deep ones at that. They murder people for kicks and because they taste good.

> I don't think villagers have ever been showed or implied to be doing that bad
Define "That bad". Getting stabbed in the chest and dying can be "Not that bad" compared to being tortured to death.

Is it that bad compared to the outside world? Yes, without question. If you think otherwise you are a spoiled first world child that would literally not last a week in the human village before begging Reimu to send you back. And that's even with the medicine from Eirin. Before that, you had all of the fun of massive child mortality rates, though frankly the assumption that Eirin fixed that is fairly debatable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768120
>Well I guess it just works out
That's my point. I don't think Sumireko is a special case because it always just works out. The only thing that is somewhat abnormal is that Yukari isn't cleaning her up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768431
I find the other situations more reasonable since those randos didn't actually threaten Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768421
>Youkai have never, and I do mean NEVER been shown to be dependent on eating human meat.
Kappa and ass balls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768354
>She can't. Old fanwank with no bearing in canon.
No wank here. She's a goddess. She has super hero powers, like those marvel movies i know you watch.
>Again, I have. Now post a actual argument.
No you didn't, you drunk. Suika is more sober than you are.
>Yeah? Even 1984 has people enjoying shitty crime novels.
Comparable to festivals and indulging in drink and food without Big Brother watching? Hell it ought to be Big Sister but Yukari is too lazy to administrate anything, she doesnt even make Ran do it when she very easily could.
>It's harming them by keeping them trapped.
No. You're having very lengthy talks straight out of your ass, good sir.
>Only one.
*More than one
>Why? Because I very much could. Literally every single argument you made applies to the Imperium of Man. Fuck, it applies to the government of 1984.
Didn't know human villagers ate corpse starch and have regular genocides because a yokai sneezed and mutated several people. Also didn't know the village was heavily centralized and Yukari is their god empress. She's definitely my god empress. I also didn't know that George Orwell influenced ZUN when he was writing touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768370
>If you mean "rape exists". Outsiders might get raped.
I love it when Yukari and Mystia raped that outsider on screen, but seriously, you may personally believe outsiders get raped.
But just saying you believe it could happen isn't going to convince anyone, maybe provide some textual evidence for that>

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768421
> NEVER been shown to be dependent on eating human meat.
Guess I'll have to go back to WaHH since irrc it was mentioned somewhere there, will have to check. I guess there's PMiSS, but that downright says that human-youkai interactions are just play.
>A lot of minor Youkai are basically just serial killers in their mindset.
>Even most of the cast
You could just have said Kasen or something... Some example or something would help your point imo.
>Define "That bad".
>Is it that bad compared to the outside world? Yes, without question. If you think otherwise you are a spoiled first world child that would literally not last a week in the human village before begging Reimu to send you back.
I said:
>shounen and capeshit
>shounen/capeshit
>in your average setting
Just commenting on how Villagers aren't cannon fodder or something. Sorry for not specifying more I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768370
>If you mean "rape exists".
No, the world is pretty darm fucked in general in those settings.
>>45768370
>Not to the extent they do in Gensokyo.
So do we make a new word for Touhou up like tenebrousgrimdark or some shit? Don't really disagree on that, only a few places are probably doing worse in the outside world.
>Probably Shinsekai Yori.
Do you recomend the anime or do I directly skip to the novel?

[Anonymous No.]

All this discussion about whether the sages should have disposed of Sumireko for posing a threat to Gensokyo was pretty funny. Seija consciously tried to reverse the social order using powerful artifacts and she got off with little more than a slap on the wrist for it (and yes, Seija is canonically weak, but she still riled up an inchiling able to wield the mallet and enraged a bunch of other youkai). Mizuchi might get another half-hearted punishment for all we know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768896
>No, the world is pretty darm fucked in general in those settings.
Goblin Slayer, not really. Berserk is it's own can of worms, I will admit.

>So do we make a new word for Touhou up like tenebrousgrimdark
Crapsaccharine world, is already accurate.

>Do you recomend the anime or do I directly skip to the novel?
Both are probably fine. I never read the novel to be honest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768832
>You could just have said Kasen or something... Some example or something would help your point imo.
Mystia. Chen. Rumia. Kisume. Yamame.

>capeshit
Capeshit is it's own special can of worms. Since the universe gets reset every other week.

>shounen
I mean, Dragon Ball literally has no consequences. For 90% of the arcs literally every random civilian that died came back. Yeah, it would probably be mentally scarring but it's also not something that is ever really brought up on account of being mostly a gag series with fighter elements.

As for other shounen, it depends. Some are better, some are worse. On average however I don't think you can really make the case that "Civilians die more oftenso it's worse".

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768585
>She's a goddess.
She lost to Kanako even during the age of Gods. She's a joke.

>No you didn't,
Still no actual argument.

>Comparable to festivals and indulging in drink and food without Big Brother watching?
>The Proles, because "Proles and animals are free." The Ministry of Truth has a section that produces crappy entertainment for them (called "prolefeed" in Newspeak): newspapers that only contain crime, sports and horoscopes, sensationalistic novels, films "oozing with sex," sentimental songs made by machines, and porn. They can also do as they bloody well please, and Big Brother doesn't give a crap if they have orgies, until one of them proves intelligent enough to organize revolutions and thus gets marked down by the Thought Police.
Shit, anon, sounds to me like your average villager.

>No.
Yes. Obviously.

>Didn't know human villagers ate corpse starch
Food they eat most likely isn't that much better on average, at least for the poor.

>and have regular genocides because a yokai sneezed and mutated several people
They literally murder people that turn into Youkai.

>Also didn't know the village was heavily centralized and Yukari is their god empress.
The Imperium isn't centralized as well. I mean, earth is but most planets are basically feudal in structure. As for god emperors, they are basically ruled over by actual Gods about as much as your average Imperial is ruled by the Emperor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45768444
>I find the other situations more reasonable since those randos didn't actually threaten Gensokyo.
Don't know that.

>>45768451
Salt deficiency

[Anonymous No.]

>>45771348
>Food they eat most likely isn't that much better on average, at least for the poor.
see >>45734216
They gave a bowl of sugar to a possessed hobo. I think they're eating fine. Can't be any worse than what Reimu eats and she eats decently enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45771420
>At least for the poor
You can read, right?

>They gave a bowl of sugar to a possessed hobo
Who could pay for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45771353
>Don't know that.
What does that mean?
We have no reason to believe they posed a threat, do you have any reason to believe any of them posed a threat?

>>45770628
Seija is just a jobber who didn't amount to much in the end, she was also a youkai and a native, I mean the alternative is Gensokyo is really chill place, since according to the other guy the other outsiders did pose a threat but were let off, youkai kill and kidnap humans just for the hell of it, and the setting is a grim as daily planetary genocide 40k.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45771915
You're a little slow so I'll spell it out. You said—compared to corpse starch—the poor isn't eating much better on average. You were then shown an image of a bowl of fruit and sugar being served, in a random cafe, to someone wearing tattered clothing, i.e. the poor.
>Who could pay for it.
This is a baseless assumption. We have no idea if Mizuchi did or could have payed for it or not, or if Mokou had money on her when she was possessed.
Learn some reading comprehension yourself retard-kun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45771281
idk Goblin Slayer were "high level" characters cannot deal with goblins because they have way worse issues at hand because the whole world is getting fucked hard by le demon lord. But I guess I shouldn't have put Goblin slayer for starters since most people only know le rape and always ignore other stuff, not a single tear was shed for the guy that gets eaten alive at the beginning. But Berserk is probably worse, yeah.
>Crapsaccharine world
Pretty much, not sure if grimdark since you can just go back to your world(That thing protags did before isekai) and it doesn't feel as bad as Berserk and shit.
>Both are probably fine.
Ok, I'll watch it soon unless I get hit hard by procrastination

[Anonymous No.]

>>45771314
>Mystia. Chen. Rumia. Kisume. Yamame.
Anything that put's them at a that bad of a moral level?
Like, you know something beyond a meh villian and shit.
>Capeshit is it's own special can of worms. Since the universe gets reset every other week.
I guess but when le bad guy decides to do something worse than stealing 40 keks shit tends to go bad.
>I mean, Dragon Ball literally has no consequences. For 90% of the arcs literally every random civilian that died came back.
Friezer had an intergalactic empire were we've seen Vegeta destroy a planet just because it was filled with weaklings.
>As for other shounen, it depends. Some are better, some are worse.
Idk with the Promised wonderland I got reminded of quimera ants and shit, HxH is really a place with a lot of dam disregard of human life, the best in a shounen you'll get is the KOROSUYARO screaming guy to not kill (usually only main character cuz fuck mobs) because the author's doesn't want to kill characters, yet somehow stakes are worse.
I guess the closest to the human village would be FMA? With spychos in power doing their thing.
idk do you now any fictional place that seems, "decent" and doesn't have le random monsters or superpowered sadist two blocks away?

[Anonymous No.]

>400 replies
Holy shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>45772527
I get why he quoted Mystia and Yamamae, Mystia attacks people and gets them to buy food at her shop, and as an exile in the underground the spiders are acknowledged as too dangerous for Gensokyo.
But that also means you can't really factor them into a discussion about if Gensokyo is grim or not since they don't live there, same thing for Kisume who Zun calls a psycho.
Chen is weird, she's just an innocent cat and at worse she eats the corpses of dead people...
Just like any other animal, bird, or reptile, and eating the corpses of the dead of another species isn't really proof of being a psycho murderer.
It's just something that happens all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45772616
Chen in particular isn't that bad, and according to Akyuu she has a "normal" friendship level which is shared by most fairies, Tewi, and Patche. And if push comes to shove you can splash her with water or give catnip and be fine. I don't know where you saw she eats corpses, but finding them is behavior taught by Orin (an undergrounder) and one Ran doesn't approve of if you read her dialogue in TH19 "Thanks to you, Chen, who was so cute, now delights in finding corpses". Though you can interpret that differently.
Otherwise we see in PCB where she fights back against Reimu robbing her, Marisa being an ass and dodging her questions, and Sakuya threatening her. She gets her ass kicked again and Ran, who was setting up for flower viewing, fights the protags when she realizes they beat Chen up.
Overall she seems pretty benign, with the worst parts of her taught by Orin who is an undergrounder who scavenges corpses as part of her job description.

[Anonymous No.]

>>45772554
More surprising are the 80 IPs, when more than half the thread feels like two autists arguing

[Anonymous No.]

>>45772795
Blame the koreans.