/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

I played Fate/Stay Night a while ago but just can't stop thinking about it. If Fate was about a kid trying to be Superman only to fall from a building, because he tried to fly, UBW his struggle to kick death in the balls and recover, feeling awesome because his body functions like it used to, then HF is about him struggling with his mental problems left from the accident and his ideals. The early death of the servants represents the kid's heroes of the past, along with his ideals, dying and different things taking over his life i.e. Sakura. The dark versions of the servants represent his mental struggle and dreams of the past coming back to haunt him as nightmares. Sakura and Angra Mainyu represent his girlfriend's child of another man which he wants to abort. Obviously, Kotomine represents the church which is against abortion. Archer's arm is more than one person. It is his therapist as well as the doctor performing the abortion. Remember guys, everything can be deep if you look hard enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567573
>HF
>compromise

Except there is no compromise.

[Anonymous No.]

The paths are more like this.

Fate: a child, who wants the impossible.

UBW: a teenager, who wants it but understands it's impossible, but will not accept a compromise.

HF: an adult, who realizes the impossibility and achieves the best compromise.

[Anonymous No.]

Very interesting, really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567574

Fate: Save everyboday (promptly fail, but doesn't get upset about it according to LE)
UBW: save as many as possible
HF: save what's important

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567574
except to the people he loves

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567581
I wasn't aware certain lives were "more important" than others.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567587

That's because you're a child.

There is no such thing as importance, just relevance. A life can very easily be more relevant to you than another.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567587
Take care of the ones close to you that you know instead of go out searching for trouble and ignoring said close people.
Or blunter version, if you have to choose between one you know and one you do not, choose the one you know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567573
>HF: an adult, who realizes the impossibility and achieves the best compromise.

I lol'd every time I saw this repititive bullshit. What part of the HF story is compromising ? The story still ends with generic "good guys win,bad guys dead,save the girl durr"

[Anonymous No.]

It's time to learn to let go, obsessing so much about it is doing bad things to your brain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567594
Ignoring everything in-between and one of the two final endings sure helps oversimplifying shit, doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567594

Because instead of "saving everyone", he drops it down to "saving what he cares about".

It's the ideal that compromises, not... whatever the fuck you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567587
Of course lives aren't equal, if I had to choose between your life anon and my sister's I'd stab your heart without thinking about it twice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567610

Err,no, he still "saves everyone" in the process. If you want to make an excuse for "compromising" story,how about making a choice of "save everyone" or "save the girl lol"

That's right,you can't. Because then it wouldn't be a generic safe end we saw plagueing the films and novels nowadays.

>>4567606

The final result is what really matters,brah. Or are you saying we should ignore the endings and grasp the whole point of story from "in-between" ?

[Anonymous No.]

>Kotomine represents the church which is against abortion

（　≖‿≖）

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567642

>Err,no, he still "saves everyone" in the process. If you want to make an excuse for "compromising" story,how about making a choice of "save everyone" or "save the girl lol"

Triviality. By saving the girl, he saved the rest. He clearly said he would've killed Tohsaka and very clearly DID kill Saber to save Sakura. If the choice of saving the girl killed everyone else, he would've taken it.

>That's right,you can't. Because then it wouldn't be a generic safe end we saw plagueing the films and novels nowadays.

Yeah because the Normal End didn't happen, to be sure.

btw IT'S SPRING

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567645
Kotomine represents the church as much as pedo priests do.
... oh wait

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567642
Except a few hundred civilians that die in-between.
The world is saved in the end, the matter was probability and casualties.
And yes, what happens in-between matters a lot.
If you just ignore it and focus only on the result, what was the fucking point of reading the story?

[Anonymous No.]

It's a bloated story about how it's questionable to say that the good of the many outweigh the good of the few. Shirou wants no innocent casualties which is an impossibility and he realizes this. In the end he's swayed by, lol, love and goes on to save what's important to him at the cost to the innocent and effectively abandons his ideal. This is why mind of steel end is so good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567659

Normal HF end should have been true end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567581
Actually, all LE means is that Shirou never stopped believing in Saber, and vice-versa.

For all we know, Saber could have seen Shirou decked out in red at the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567691
Isn't Mind of Steel end Shirou saying "No, fuck you Sakura, I won't let this bullshit go on!"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567711

Remember, "In the end, he didn't take the miracle" in Last Episode. The Shirou that winds up in Avalon is not the same Shirou as the Counter Guardian.

He probably wouldn't have grey hair/burnt skin (Tohsaka made him eat that jewel), but he might have the badass cape and armor.

Who's to say he dies it red, though?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567659
>It's spring

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567728

>dyes
fuckinhomonyms

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567728
I thought the skin was due to over-use of projection? In anycase, it's interesting to speculate on what caused Archer to become Archer, as I heard it was similar to the Fate Rout-

Wait a minute. Perhaps Archer's mere existence is what causes Shirou's Fate route to end better than Archer's own route.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567730

Homophone, dear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567711
IIRC, Archer doesn't seem to really care about Saber or recognize her in the slightest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567736

>I thought the skin was due to over-use of projection?

Frying his circuits due to over-projection, but that was due to his circuits being stalled (the artificial magical-circuit creation). Tohsaka made him eat a jewel which cleared his system, making him be able to project easily and free.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567736
TIME PARADOX

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567740

Did you play the Prologue? The entire reason Archer got his head halfway to chopped off was because he was stunned upon seeing Saber.

He remembers her, and judging by his words to her in UBW, he regrets not being able to save her, but he doesn't long for her or anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567740
I thought that he did, or else he would've escaped her first attack which he clearly was able to avoid. I thought it was his surprise of seeing someone beloved that made him not able to do it. Sounds cheesy, I know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567741
Ah, so he didn't eat the jewel in his own route? I thought Archer was summoned specifically because of the jewel, though...

Goddamn you, Nasu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567754

No, that was the pendant. The jewel was far less important than that.

Also you'd need quite a jaw to swallow that thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567741
Shirou only ate the jewel in Fate route.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567754
...The catalyst is the pendant.
DId you even read UBW?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567754

Two completely different jewels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567705
Does it matter what you call them?
It's one of the final conclusions.
If you like one more, that is it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567770

They're rather explicitly labeled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567764
I did, but it was like two years ago, my memory is a bit fuzzy. I blame Umineko, personally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567779
Yes, but what matters is not the label, rather their 'position.
Unlike Mind of Steel which is incomplete and midway through teh story, Normal HF is a proper conclusion.
Whether you stick Normal, True, Good, Chaotic, it's irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567784
You blame another VN for trying to guess from a Fuzzy memory and blaming the writer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567791

But you can't suddenly swap "Normal" and "True" because people won't understand what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567795
Well, geez, I was just kidding around. No need to be so serious, bra.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567809
...Well, obviously.
What I am saying though, switching the labels in the first place is pointless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567813
It's not about being serious.
You just do not make any sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567741
For some reason, it made me think that the jewel was a laxative.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567821
Well, ok, whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567817

Well, "True" makes it sound more like it's what Nasu was going for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567834
Considering there are and multiple endings and no real sequels , you think too hard.
Though, most of the events (purpose of the grail, Third magic, Ilya, doing everything for Sakura etc) do build up for a miracle to happen
Normal end shows you that just doing your best does not always work out perfectly.

Though I prefer Sparks Liner High as a conclusion over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567873
You prefer everyone dies over only Shirou dying a heroic death?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567659
>Triviality

By your definition every details in the story can be called "triviality". What's the point in reading anything anymore if you put it that way ?

>Yeah because the Normal End didn't happen, to be sure.

Are you a retard ? The only difference in normal and true end is whether Shirou alone dies or not. You're talking like this is the first time we saw "sacrifice yourself for greater good". If so,I think I can safely assume you're around 10,right ?

>>4567674

It's more like "oh well,what's done is done,it can't be helped." He's determined to save her but at the same time tries to find a "save-all" solution by getting rid of Zouken,so don't give me that compromising bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567980

>By your definition every details in the story can be called "triviality". What's the point in reading anything anymore if you put it that way ?

Uh, no? I'm saying what you've brought up was trivial to Shirou. You're looking at my argument wrong. "Saving everyone else" was trivial in Shirou's eyes, so long as Sakura was saved.

>Are you a retard ? The only difference in normal and true end is whether Shirou alone dies or not. You're talking like this is the first time we saw "sacrifice yourself for greater good". If so,I think I can safely assume you're around 10,right ?

Not a safe happy end, though, since it puts Sakura in a perpertual mourning hell until she dies.

>It's more like "oh well,what's done is done,it can't be helped." He's determined to save her but at the same time tries to find a "save-all" solution by getting rid of Zouken,so don't give me that compromising bullshit.

What? He wants to get rid of Zouken PURELY to save Sakura, because Zouken can HIJACK her at any time with the worms.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4568003
>"Saving everyone else" was trivial in Shirou's eyes, so long as Sakura was saved.

It was more like secondary objective,done after the primary objective aka SAVE SAKURA and not trivial in any aspect since he deemed it important enough to fight Kotomine AND get on with final projection.

>He wants to get rid of Zouken PURELY to save Sakura

Not PURELY,since he was also deduced that Zouken was the one manipulating her to go devour people at night at the time,so it's more like shooting two bird with one stone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567554
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[Anonymous No.]

>>4568036

>It was more like secondary objective,done after the primary objective aka SAVE SAKURA and not trivial in any aspect since he deemed it important enough to fight Kotomine AND get on with final projection.

No, he explicitly destroyed Angra Mainyu because Sakura could not be happy while it lived. Saving humanity was a benefit, but was not a goal.

>Not PURELY,since he was also deduced that Zouken was the one manipulating her to go devour people at night at the time,so it's more like shooting two bird with one stone.

Understandable. He's also a major source of Sakura's unhappiness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4568055
I agree. That was also the main motivation for killing Kotomine.
''Get lost. Sakura can't smile if you exist...!"

[eek !SYLPH2qXy2 No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4568121
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4567552
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[Anonymous No.]

>>4568116
Strictly speaking, he says that line for Angra.
But yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

Fate displayed his broken ideal of wanting a happy ending for everyone. That Shirou would have fought even for a monster like Zouken.

Unlimited Blade Works had it consciously thrown at him that his ideal was hypocrisy and unreal. But he still chased after it.

Heaven's Feel had him essentially throwing away his ideal and scrupals and baring both scars and the weight of dead on his shoulders for the sake of one girl. You're right in that it wasn't a compromise--Shirou outright turned his back on the notion of saving everyone that had driven him for 10 years. Instead, he allowed himself to realize that, for Sakura's happiness to be possibly achieved, there were obstacles (Zouken, Dark Saber, Kotomine) that absolutely HAD to be removed, and there were sacrifices (Saber, the masses in Fuyuki, even Rider) that had to be made.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4568036
No, it was purely. Don't paint your own thoughts into the matter. Shirou's motivations completely switched, and his objectives adjusted accordingly. He was more concerned about his house and the people in it than the strangers in the street.

Killing Zouken and Assassin meant there was no one to remote-control Sakura. Killing Angra Mainyu meant there was no chance of Sakura being made a host of the grail again. Simple as that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4568187
>Don't paint your own thoughts into the matter

Looks like exactly what you're doing there,buddy.

>Shirou's motivations completely switched

An example of your "own thoughts". He never said that he stopped caring about others,nor did he show it by action,he just kinda put her first in the list before "saving the world"

>Killing Angra Mainyu meant there was no chance of Sakura being made a host of the grail again

Nope,she can still be made the grail as long as she's got that grail fragment in her body. And he didn't "kill" Angra Manyu,he just killed its body which it used to make way into this world.

[Anonymous No.]

So, as nobody said anything against OP's post, should I take it for a good take on HF?