Umineko Saturday

[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

Welcome to Umineko Saturday! For those of you who missed the tread yesterday, today we are going to solve all the twilights of the first four episodes! Please refrain from referring to any -trice theories already constructed, as our goal now is not to figure out who Beatrice is, but rather who could be the killer in each twilight. Moreover, we are looking for new theories, so I respectfully ask that you not post theories that have already been explained (ie. a ShKanon killer has been explained). I am not saying that any of these theories must be wrong, but rather, we wish to try to find something new.

As promised, I am going to start with all red text from Episodes 1-4, barring repeats and miscellaneous red (You are incompetent, etc), and categorized by when and what they refer to. Let me know if there are any mistakes, or if more explanation should be added. The only other thing that really needs to be added to this from Episode 5 are Knox's rules, I believe.

If some kind anon could also post some simple instructions on how to upload to /rs/, I'll gladly rar up the text file and post it there.

Soon after this, we will begin to look at Episode 1, first twilight. Alibi's, possibilities in the garden shed, and alibis of everyone after if applicable and needed for any specific theory.

Depending on how fast or slow this moves, I will try to update to a new twilight every half hour to hour. I may need to stop at some point, after which we may continue another day, or some other Anon can take over.

[Anonymous No.]

Witches aren't real.

Just wanted to get that out of the way.

[Anonymous No.]

Why mutilate Shannon?

Was it merely to hide her identity, or did the person have a particular hatred for her?

[Flee !!TRanvZl56g3 No.]

I'm glad there are thread like these made, where the trice theories aren't going to be discussed much. Not that I dislike or don't believe in them, but just want to get away from them to decide on other solutions to this whacky story.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>Welcome to Umineko Saturday! For those of you who missed the tread yesterday, today we are going to solve all the twilights of the first four episodes!

More like

>Welcome to Umineko Sunday! For the next 14 hours, I, along with my tripfriend from IRC, will be samefagging this thread and discussing the Umineko characters in a loop so that nothing ever gets solved and we can continue making these threads every Saturday!


This is one of the few threads that I would support an image bomb by Jones.

[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

Red Text:

[All Games]
#Only one key to the chapel exists
#I keep my promises#.If you solve the riddle of the epitaph, you should be able to reach the Golden Land. When you have, the ceremony will be over. No more people will die. (Beatrice talking)
#Of all of the doors that exist on Rokkenjima, none has a crack through which a key can slip
#No door with an auto-lock exists other than Kinzo's study!
#In the forest of Rokkenjima, a hidden mansion called Kuwadorian exists
#Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board (Most likely used for all games, seeing as it says "game board")
#Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games!
#No person would mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo by sight. No matter what the disguise, they would not mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo!
#Kinzo's life or death status is the same at the start of each of the four games. The setup was not different for the fourth game alone...!
#No more than 17 humans exist on this island!! That excludes any 18th person. In short, this 18th person X does not exist!! This applies to all games!!!#The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself! A different person cannot claim his name!

-Past Kuwadorian, 1967
"So that Beato relaxing in the garden of Kuwadorian, ...and that conversation she had with Grandfather, were the truth?" "Yes. It is the truth. In the past, #those two actually had a conversation like that in this place."
#This is the world of 1967
#In 1967, in a hidden mansion on Rokkenjima, Beatrice-sama existed as a human
#She is definitely dead!(Referring to Beatrice)

-Beatrice, 1986 (There may be more than one, so these may refer to all or to one specifically)
#Six years ago for me, no person called Beatrice existed.
#I am the Golden Witch, Beatrice.
#And I opened this game in order to fight Ushiromiya Kinzo's grandchild Ushiromiya Battler.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>4558827

And there's the IRC tripfag. Have fun with this thread guys! I'm now reporting it and putting it on ignore, so I won't see your childish butthurt.

[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

-Ushiromiya Battler (There are more than one confirmed. I'll use the tag[meta] when I am sure it is referring to protagonist Battler)
#The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
#Ushiromiya Battler has a sin
#Because of your sin, people die.
#Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die. No one escapes, all die.
#My name is Ushiromiya Battler [meta]
#Ushiromiya Battler's mother is Ushiromiya Asumu.
#It was from Ushiromiya Asumu that Ushiromiya Battler was born.
#It was from Ushiro#miya Asumu that, ah, ngagh, ......nnnggghh......!!! ............Gwah! [meta]
#You are not Ushiromiya Asumu's son [meta]
#Ushiromiya Battler is not Ushiromiya Asumu's son. [meta]
#Ange is, ......my little sister [meta]

-Beatrice's Golden Land (Revival of Sakutaro)
#This is my Golden Land...!
#A world where magic that isn't mine certainly cannot exist
And my #magic was not able to revive Sakutarou
#That stuffed animal is a special stuffed animal! Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only#, .........ah, ...............u, ...............ah......"

[Anonymous No.]

[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

[Episode 1]
#Regarding unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!

-2nd twilight
#Both were killed by another person! It is not the case that, after the construction of the closed room, one of them committed suicide after committing murder! Furthermore, the murder was carried out with both the victim and the perpetrator in the same room! No method exists for the perpetrator to commit murder from outside the room!

-Kanon, Boiler Room (5th twilight)
#All of the survivors have alibis! Let us include the dead as well!! In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon!
#Kanon did not commit suicide
"One more. Repeat it, 'Kanon-kun's death was a homicide'." "I refuse to repeat it."
#Kanon did not die in an accident!

-6-8th twilights
#Maria, who was in the same room, did not kill them! And of course, the three were killed by other people!
#Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are not murderers! (Optimistically, this may refer to all games)

-Natsuhi's death
#Natsuhi was killed by another person! There are no unidentified corpses, and all of the survivors have alibis!
#The bullet buried into Natsuhi's forehead was not fired from Natsuhi's gun!
#The thing that shot Natsuhi wasn't a trap, it was a real shooting murder with a gun raised and trigger pulled!

[Flee !!TRanvZl56g3 No.]

>>4558838

Thank you.

Have a nice day.

[Anonymous No.]

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[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

[Episode 2]
#The only master keys are the ones that each servant holds, one per person
#Starting when Maria's key was received, and until the instant Rosa unsealed it the next day, it passed through no one's hands!!
#After the master keys came into Rosa's control, never did any of them leave her hands! Except for the time when she lent it to Battler to unlock Natsuhi's room.

-1st twilight-Chapel
#Regardless of whether they were living or dead, the six people definitely entered through the door
#Only one key to the chapel exists
#It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key
#When the door to the chapel is locked, it prevents any and all methods of entry or exit
#The six people definitely entered through 'this front door'
#This morning, Rosa definitely took an envelope out of Maria's handbag, and thereby obtained the genuine key to the chapel
#The key to the chapel truly was the object inside the envelope I gave Maria
#The letter that I handed over to Maria and the one Rosa opened are the same thing
#The six people were already dead by the time they were discovered! All were killed by other people! All six were genuine victims, and did not take part in a mutual murder! There was no simultaneous murder!!
#There was no one hiding in the chapel. By this, a shut-in murder like you say does not work!
#When the six were killed in the chapel, the culprit was inside the chapel!

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[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

[Episode 2]
-2nd twilight-Jessica's Room
#there are absolutely no types of hidden doors. This door is the only way in or out. The only way to lock this door is with Jessica's single key or the master keys, only one of which is held by each servant
#the window is locked from the inside
#Kanon was killed in this room
#When locked, entry is not possible by any means
#No trick could have the effect of locking the door from the outside without using a key
#There are no hidden doors in this room. There is no way to get in or out other than the door and the window
#When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room#. Whoops, the corpse of #Jessica is also included. Therefore, both in the case of Jessica's room and the case in this servants' room, no humans exist that you were not aware of. No one is hiding
#No method exists by which the door can be locked from the outside without using a key. Regarding the window, no method exists by which it could somehow be locked from the outside

-Servants' Room
"What about the original key to this room, the 'keys to the servants' room'?!" "Hmm. Those are #kept in the key box in the center of the servants' room#. There are several keys to the servants' room, but #all of those are inside the key box.
#Entry or exit is impossible except for the single door and single window
#And those were both locked. The door and the window do not permit any kind of entry or exit when they are locked
#it is impossible to unlock the door without a key to the servants' room or the master key
#No one exists in this room except all of you. 'All of you' refers to Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, and Shannon
#They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon! (Refers to servants and Nanjo)

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

[Episode 2]
-4th-6th twilights-Natsuhi's room
#Natsuhi's room was exactly the same, just like usual! The door and the windows were locked from the inside. There is no fraud or trick, there is no means of secret passage and no hidden place! Natsuhi's own key was in George's pocket, and the inside of the room was closed off. Only the five master keys were left, and 'Rosa' was holding all of them! And let me say this, the parlor's the same. The original key to the parlor is sealed in the servants' room. So unlocking it without the master key is impossible! The definition of a closed room is the same as always!

[Episode 3]
"How many master keys this time?" "...Hmph. The same as last time. #There are five, one for each servant.

-1st twilight, six rooms
#Furthermore, all of the doors and windows in the six rooms are normal. No device exists which can lock them without a key, such as an auto-lock.
#6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
#There is no one hiding in the six rooms!
#The six people died instantly!
#Only the victims are inside the rooms, and no other people exist inside the rooms.
#The six people were not killed by traps
#None of the six people committed suicide!
#All five master keys were discovered, each in the pocket of one of the servants! The individual keys were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses! In short, all keys related to the linked closed rooms were locked inside the linked closed rooms!! The keys cannot be returned from outside the room using the crack of the door, the crack of the window, vents or any place of the sort!!
#All of them had wounds resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal! It is impossible for the murder to have taken place from outside the room!! I shall say more with the red! When the five other than Kinzo were murdered, the murderer was definitely in the same room! I already proclaimed in red at the time that there were no suicides!!

[Anonymous No.]

[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

[Episode 3]
-2nd twilight
#Rosa and Maria died. The cause of death was as Nanjo diagnosed
#Rosa and Maria were killed by other people
(Hideyoshi)#I was in the room the whole time. Both before and after the time period of the crime.

-Kyrie's thoughts
#Kyrie was thinking that food was unnecessary
#she claimed that they should not leave the guesthouse
she herself #suggested that they leave the guesthouse to get food
#the reason she changed her mind was not told to anyone, nor was it written down
#Until the last instant before she died, Kyrie preserved her pattern of behavior which states 'not going to get food=>not going to the mansion'# (Changed = to => for logical consistency)

-George's disappearance
#George did not go down the stairs of the guesthouse.
#All windows and doors leading to the outside were locked from the inside. Furthermore, it is impossible to lock any of those from the outside!

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

[Episode 3]
-9th twilight (Battler and Eva in the parlor after Nanjo's death)
#After Jessica was injured, Eva was always under Battler's supervision. Battler is neither the culprit nor an accomplice. By this, we can establish a perfect alibi for Eva
#Kinzo is dead.
#Krauss is dead.
#Natsuhi is dead.
#Hideyoshi is dead.
#George is dead.
#Rudolf is dead.
#Kyrie is dead.
#Rosa is dead.
#Maria is dead.
#Genji is dead.
#Shannon is dead.
#Kanon is dead.
#Gohda is dead.
#Kumasawa is dead.
#Nanjo is dead.
#The 15 people mentioned are dead
#Battler is alive.
#Eva is alive.
#Jessica is alive.

#Eva was with you the whole time. So committing a crime was impossible for her. Of course, Battler-kun isn't the culprit. He wasn't forging an alibi for her, and he took the possibility that she was the culprit into account, watching over her actions carefully. No chance existed for her to do anything suspicious! In short, at the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servants' room
#Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder! She was not involved with Nanjo's murder!! Her eyes were completely blocked. It's impossible for her to carry out a murder like that!
#Neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo, nor were they involved
#The culprit who killed Nanjo was neither Battler nor Eva nor Jessica
#Jessica's eyes were completely blocked, and murder was impossible for her
#No actions caused by Jessica's body had any relation to or influence on the murder of Nanjo! This also applies to Battler and Eva
#Nanjo was killed by another person. ...Of course, it was with a direct method of murder, not a trap. A weapon was readied, and he was killed with it from point-blank range in front of him! The culprit appeared openly before Nanjo's eyes, and as they both looked at each other's faces, the culprit killed him

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[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

[Episode 4]
#All of those who met at the family conference recognized the existence of Kinzo!

-Kanon's death
#Kanon is dead.
#Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die.
#In short, he was the 9th victim.

-Battler's death
#Ushiromiya Battler. I will now...kill you.
#And right now, there is no one other than you on this island. The only one alive on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere.
#You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and will kill you.

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[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

I forgot that Saturday is a terrible day for 4chan. Tripfags complaining about a trip created specifically for this thread, and image spam because someone's angry that we won't be solving anything, even though that is specifically why this thread was created. To solve Umineko.

Anyway, carrying on. Should I post the layout of Episode 1, First twilight here, or is this thread dead? I'll try one twilight before giving up for today. Next time I try, the Red Text will be rar'd from the beginning.

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>>4559017
Just report a few of them and wait for the meido to wake up.

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[Anonymous No.]

MODCAT IS EPICK WIN

ARCHIVE THIS THREAD

[Anonymous No.]

Instead of dumping all the red text in this thread, why not just link the animesuki lists or something?

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>>4558776
rｅｍOＶe ＹＯUR ＩｌLＥgaｌ CLＯｎＥ immｅdIａＴｅｌY. yｏＵ HＡｖE cＯpＩｅｄ aNｄ ＰＡStｅd WwＷ.ANＯNtａＬＫ.COｍ OＮ ｔｈE ｓubｄＯｍａｉｎ. ＣUT THE ｃＲａｐ, mＯOＴ, ａnD tHＥsｅ ｍESＳＡges ＷiLｌ sｔOＰ. ｉｆ ＴＨＥ PeRSｏｎ rＥａＤIＮＧ ＴｈＩs ｉs Noｔ mｏoT, Ｅ-ＭａiL [e-mail] ａnｄ TｅLL hＩM ｔｏ.

ｒｅMｏｖE yoUr iLｌＥｇaｌ cｌoｎｅ ImmＥＤｉａtｅＬY. ｙＯｕ HＡvE ＣopIeＤ Ａｎｄ ＰａStED ｗＷｗ.ANOnＴaｌｋ.ＣｏM on ｔｈＥ SUBDｏｍａｉＮ. ＣＵt tｈE ｃRＡp, ＭＯｏt, ＡＮＤ ThＥｓE ｍeSｓａgＥS ｗｉLl ＳTｏp. ＩＦ ｔＨｅ PｅｒSON ＲEADIＮＧ ｔｈｉS IＳ nｏｔ MｏｏＴ, ｅ-ｍAil [e-mail] anD ｔｅＬL ｈＩＭ Ｔo.

ｒＥMｏVｅ yoｕr iＬLｅｇａl CＬＯNＥ IＭＭeＤIＡTEly. ＹＯｕ HaVe ｃoPieＤ ＡＮｄ pasｔＥd Ｗww.AｎoＮｔAｌｋ.cOM ｏN Ｔhe SＵbdomＡiｎ. CＵｔ ｔＨｅ cRaP, mｏＯT, Ａnｄ ｔＨEＳｅ mEＳＳａＧｅs ｗIｌl ｓｔoＰ. ｉf ｔhＥ ｐEＲＳＯＮ rｅAdING ＴｈIs ｉS ＮＯT ｍoＯT, Ｅ-mAIｌ [e-mail] aＮｄ tｅLｌ Ｈｉm Ｔo.

rＥｍＯＶE YＯＵｒ ＩLＬEgAl clONｅ ｉmｍEＤiＡTＥLy. yＯＵ hＡvＥ cOＰＩEＤ AＮd ＰAsted ＷｗW.AｎＯnＴＡlｋ.ｃOm Ｏn ｔｈｅ ｓuＢDOMAIN. CUｔ TＨＥ Ｃｒap, mｏｏt, AｎＤ TheSe ＭeｓsageＳ ｗIｌＬ ｓｔop. If ｔhE pＥRsＯN ReadＩNｇ ｔＨＩｓ ＩS ＮOT ＭＯot, E-ＭＡiＬ [e-mail] ａNd ｔｅLL ｈｉm TO.

[Anonymous No.]

If this becomes to shitty and you want to create another thread Im all for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4559079
because Animesuki is terrible and you should feel terrible for even mentioning it.

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>>4559079
better, the wikia link, it's easier

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Great thread

10/10

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I don't know why you expected any different, OP.

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[sage No.]

sage

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[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

>>4559100
Wikia is missing some red text last I looked, and is not categorized. It is all in order of appearance.

>>4559196
Because yesterday we had a fairly good thread.

Ok, now to start 1st twilight:
#Regarding unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!

Alibis: None. We might be able to discount Eva and Natsuhi, but there is no guarantee that no one snuck out in the middle of the night. Even the cousins could sneak out after Battler was asleep. However, this is only if the murders could occur at any time during the night, rather than shortly after midnight as Nanjo says. However, there is evidence that Nanjo is an accomplice.

Possibilities:
Since all corpses are identitfied (Krauss, even though he has half his face, still has to be Krauss since no body doubles), I see four possibilities:
1.Shannon is dead, Gohda and parents dead
2.Shannon alive, Gohda and parents dead
3.Shannon dead, some parent(s) or Gohda alive
4.Shannon alive, some parent(s) or Gohda alive

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[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

>>4559036
Already done, although it might take a while for anything to happen.

>>4559226

Now, let's look at how probable any of the parents are alive. Out of everyone, Battler seems to only truly look at Rudolf, Kyrie, and Krauss somewhat. Therefore, I am under the impression that Rosa is the one most likely alive, if any, although none of them are truly declared to be dead. This uses the wordplay of Episode 5, and somewhat 2, where corpse does not have to refer to a dead body.

There are two other possibilities I see for Shannon being alive:
1.Hideyoshi is lying, Kanon is lying, George does not know.
2.Hideyoshi is lying, Kanon is lying, George does know.

The reason I think that George might know is because he leads the conversation:
"...So, ......the one lying at Father's feet is, ............Sha, ...Shannon, isn't it.........?" ".........Yes. ......It's Shannon-chan."
This seems weird to me for one reason: Kumasawa has not been seen all morning. Wouldn't he rather hope that it was Kumasawa, rather than assuming Shannon?

These are the possibilities that I see for the 1st twilight. However, if any one of the people inside is only pretending to be dead, we need to explain how they could leave. Again, I see 2 possibilities:
1.Natsuhi was blackmailed, gave away the key to the new padlock at some time.
2.Someone simply used bolt cutters to open the lock.

Either way involves someone not having an alibi for some amount of time, which I have not yet checked.

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>>4559226
Krauss doesn't have to be Krauss because it's no body doubles. Notice the "therefore." In order words, the second part can be exuded, it's just leading on from the first part - "Regarding unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. "

The reason Krauss has to be Krauss is not because of that, but because half is face is still there, hurr.

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>>4559226
Krauss doesn't have to be Krauss because it's no body doubles. Notice the "therefore." In order words, the second part can be exuded, it's just leading on from the first part - "Regarding unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. "

The reason Krauss has to be Krauss is not because of that, but because half his face is still there, hurr.

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>>4559226
Since when is the wikia missing red text? Prove it. And if it is, why don't you add the red text and categorize it yourself? It's a wiki.

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>>4559235
The alibis are easier
Servants always remained together in their room
All the ushiromiyas remained together in the parlor
This layout only changed when Eva and Hideyoshi had a fight with Natsuhi, they went into a guest room

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>>4559292
Forgot: those are for after the 1st twilight is done

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>>4559292
Kanon was supposed to be on a midnight shift in the guesthouse, Genji was supposed to be sleeping, but the person who greeted them there Eva and Hideyoshi mentioned to secure their alibi was Genji. Kanon wasn't at the guesthouse, and Genji knew.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4559292
Kanon was supposed to be on a midnight shift in the guesthouse, Genji was supposed to be sleeping, but the person who greeted them there Eva and Hideyoshi mentioned to secure their alibi was Genji. tl;dr: Kanon wasn't at the guesthouse, and Genji knew.

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>>4559307
I was talking about after the corpses were discovered, for the blackmail/padlock cutting scenario

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>>4559226
>1.Shannon is dead, Gohda and parents dead
If that's true, then the killer of Eva and Hideyoshi must be someone from the rest of the servants. And because it was stated that **Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are not murderers** the only one left is Kanon (though maybe that red only applies to their deaths, which Battler tried to explain as simultaneous murder).
If Kanon is the killer, than Genji or Kumasawa is probably an accomplice.

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[OP !3SfloA2uBI No.]

>>4559277
These were missing last time I looked (although yes, they are there now):

# All five master keys were discovered, each in the pocket of one of the servants!

* (This is referring to the first twilight of Episode 3.)

# The individual keys were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses!

And yes, I might add it to the wiki, but I wanted to have it categorized for me first before doing so (which I finished just a little while ago). I'll also have to create a separate page. However, as you said, it's a wiki and can be changed by anyone. I made the text files for people who wanted a copy on their own computer.

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You'd be better off at /seacats/.

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>>4559292
There are two scenarios that I see here:
1. All servants are accomplices. It is almost given that Nanjo and Genji are accomplices, and probably Kumasawa too, although there is not as much proof for her.

2. If Shannon is alive, she could be outside of the storehouse. This means that she could easily open the door.

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>>4559417
If Shannon is alive, she should be inside and the padlock it's outside, so it'd need all the servants (or at the very least kanon) to work

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>>4559518
Why would she have to be inside?
Only Kanon and Hideyoshi claim to have seen her, after all.

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>>4559570
she had to be somewhere and if they were no body doubles, she could be alive and inside, which wouldn'tn cause any kind of problem and it's easy to do

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thx janitor

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>>4559583
Yes, she may be inside, but I'm just saying that it may be possible that those two may be lying about the body completely. Shannon could be anywhere without contradictions.

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The pleasure of being closed room inside.

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The metagame is just an excuse for Ryukishi to be lazy and not come up with different characters and different settings when he wants to write a mystery. Right?

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Hey, OP, why don't you post this instead of ctrl+C ctrl+V huge walls of text.

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Truth

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>>4559794
Already went over this, although I do apologize. I'll add a categorized version to the wiki soon.
>>4559226

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I want to see the Jessica fags come up with a theory that explains how she could Beatrice when she's sitting right next to Battler when he sees Beatrice in episode 1.

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>>4559851

Beatrice isn't real so yeah

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>>4559856
Beatrice is real. She's just someone in disguise. And that someone can't be Jessica, unless there are multiple Beatrices, which there actually probably are.

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>>4559856
It happened on the gameboard, nobody was drunk or high or anything. So the person that they saw was definately real.

Natsuhi was also definately shot by another person and everybody else is thought to be dead at that point.

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>>4559880
And Genji, Kumaswa and Nanjo were definitely killed. By Kanon.

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Ok, so I don't have anything written out, particularly I don't have the alibis. However, let's look at the second twilight, along with when Kinzo's corpse was placed in the boiler room. I am assuming that should occur around the same time, although that may be wrong.

#Both were killed by another person! It is not the case that, after the construction of the closed room, one of them committed suicide after committing murder! Furthermore, the murder was carried out with both the victim and the perpetrator in the same room! No method exists for the perpetrator to commit murder from outside the room!

So, we know that both Hideyoshi and Eva actually are dead, unless there is some wordplay I'm missing. There are two ways I can think of this. The killer was in the room beforehand, using whatever trick was used in Episode 5 (a hidden closet, for example). This would almost have to be someone presumed to be dead.

2nd, the deaths happened after Kanon breaks the lock.

During this time, either before or during, someone retrieved Kinzo's corpse from somewhere and dragged it into the boiler room.

That's all I can think of from memory. Like I said, I can't remember the alibis.

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CHEN

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>>4559851
I'm all for Doubletrice, so that Beatrice is Shkanon.

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>>4559851
because disguising as her means being her right?
It's been hinted that Shannon disguises as Beatrice through most episodes, so she or Kanon if they're the same can disguise as her without being her
not that difficult

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>>4559928
It was said that flame in an incinerator was not too strong so the body was frying there for quite some time. Maybe Natsuhi and servants dumped it there during the time they went "to check the doors and windows".

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>>4559928

Eva was supposed to be the fourth twilight (Gouge the head an kill) ,but after she was killed and staked the culprit discovered that Hideyoshi was in the bathroom and had to kill him too. Therefore the time of discovery was a n accident. To Battler it looked like the second twilight, but it was meant to be the fourth.

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>>4559928
Eva was found lying on the bed with her shoes on, despite Hideyoshi being naked in the shower. Also, the red specifies that "the killer was in the same room as the victims, but that doesn't specify which room it's talking about. So there's a possibility that Eva wasn't actually in the bedroom when she died, and her corpse was just dragged there and posed afterward.

The closed room wasn't necessarily set up by the killer either. Putting this incident together with Kinzo's corpse at the 4th twilight and Kanon's faked death at the 5th twilight, it starts to look like the servants were all conspiring together to deceive the other survivors. Instead of them all being accomplices (which is kind of ridiculous), maybe they were trying to deceive the murderer or screw up his plans? For the 2nd twilight, they could have stumbled across the corpses sometime during that six hour blank period, and decided to put together the fake twilights at that point.

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>>4560595
My bet for Eva and Hideyoshi is poison, though
then, while Kanon was running, Genji cut the chain, staked them, hid ¡undeer the bed and scaped while Kanon was turning off the shower
he does take an awful lot of time to take everyone to the room

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>>4560522
I think the second twilight is good enough, tear those who are close.

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>>4560649
>Genji cut the chain
Yeah, and then Kanon cut it again.
>scaped while Kanon was turning off the shower
he does take an awful lot of time to take everyone to the room
He turned off the shower only after he was ordered by Natsuhi whom Genji brought there.

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>>4560730
No, Kanon investigated the room and turned off the shower
Genji replaced the chain,, just taht

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>>4560752
No, he didn't.

"......They went out of their way to leave it here. I'm sure they wouldn't have left fingerprints."
As Natsuhi said that, she picked up the envelope.
...And before checking its contents, she entered the room herself, ......when she found Eva, dead.
"E, ......Eva-san......!!!!"
"......Madam..., Hideyoshi-sama is here, too............"
"Th, ......this is......, truly atrocious......"
"...Kanon, turn off the shower... Don't let this be any more pitiful than it needs to...!"
"Y, ...yes."
Kanon gripped his handkerchief and twisted the valve, turning off the shower.

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>>4560376
This is a possibility that I was unsure of, but you make a good point. If the flame was not strong, then it could burn for a while before the smell begins to permeate.

>>4560595
I like this idea. However, as you say, the servants would have to be in on setting up this fake closed room. There's also the magic circle.

Are the positions of the bodies accurate, though? Battler never sees the bodies, and I think George only goes to cry over his mother. At first I thought there might be a possibility Hideyoshi survived, but the red seems to contradict that.

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>>4560649
No Natsuhi was with them when Kanon was told to turn off the shower so she probably saw the stakes. However Battler doesn't come until later. It's possible that the door was unlocked the whole time and that the closed room was just a lie the servants made up.

Or maybe Eva and Hideyoshi were paranoid and they locked it to keep the servants out and they were killed after the chain was removed.

If that's the case they murdered and staked them after removing the chain and then when Battler came they played innocent.

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>>4560649
Not to mention that Kanon and Genji first returned to the kitchen, then Kanon and Kumasawa went after tools to cut the chain and Genji and Nanjo supposedly went to parlor to call Natsuhi. If it was Genji, then Nanjo is also directly involved.

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I think Kanon is really suspicious i nEP1 the most, he seems to react a lot to Battler, I,E The second twilight, when he see's Battler he seems to act completely surprised, as opposed to the other games

Or it could be homolust.

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>>4560825

I'm going to continue based on my theory here. If they were killed after the chain was broken it's not even a closed room.

Genji and Kanon placed the letter under the door trying to get Eva and Hideyoshi's attention. Eva had decided to go to bed early and locked the door. Genji told Kanon to go to the storehouse to get wire cutters (he probably gave him some sort of signal to get something else too). While Kanon is getting the wire cutters Genji or Nanjo put up the magic circle. Kanon gets wire cutters, but he also gets a power drill and hides it in his hat. He cuts the chain, enters the room, attaches a stake onto the power drill and uses it to stake Eva. Then he discovers that Hideyoshi is in the shower. He attaches another stake to the power drill and enters the bathroom and pushes Hideyoshi over causing him to slip and fall. Then he proceeds to drill the next stake into Hideyoshi's forehead. Afterward Kanon hides the power drill under the bed Eva is laying on and plays innocent in front of Natsuhi who keeps Battler from seeing the inside of the room to investigate.

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>>4560896
because he don't want Battler to take away Jessica.