/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Guys, let's talk about the first twilight of Episode 3. I think this twilight gives us a lot of information about just who the culprit could be, unless it's just a giant troll episode.

First, there is the "accident" theory given by Battler. It's acceptable, if you want the culprit to be a servant. However, it's pretty absurd.

In fact, this entire closed room is absurd. It's not closed at all. The boiler room has a door that does not lock and leads to the courtyard. Therefore, since we know that all the servants are dead (even if you believe in ShKanon, they both must be dead.), we have a culprit and/or "at least one" Beatrice existing within the remaining 13 people.

Secondly, for the second twilight, there is no reason the Eva is the murderer. In fact, from what Eva-Beatrice says, there is a distinct possibility that Hideyoshi's cigarette was planted in his room before Kyrie searched the room. Whoever planted it seems to be our "second culprit," if we believe that the second twilight onwards is done by someone else.

Finally, at the end, when Eva, Battler, Nanjo, and Jessica return. There is the number "07151129" on the door. This must have been done by someone who is related to the original plans of murder, and not some "second culprit". Further, we are led to believe this was put up after the first twilight, and perhaps after the fourth through sixth twilights (if I remember correctly, Battler may have seen the door at that time).

So, I thought we could focus some theories on this episode, as it seems to give the most hints.

[Anonymous No.]

>unless it's just a giant troll episode.

I wouldn't put it past Kinzo....er...R07.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466451
Cease and desist with your fucking spamming and DDoSing of www. anon eraseThisOK talk .com through your tardbots immediately. Legal action will follow.

[Anonymous No.]

Just a thought, but George is in the perfect position to place the number on the door. The window to the parlor was broken earlier by Rudolf. He is found in the parlor, albeit dead. Yet as absurd as it is, he could enter the parlor, unlock the door from the inside, write the numbers, and then reenter and lock the door.

His killer, too, could have. Or killed him anywhere, dragged his body back to the parlor, and then left through the window after locking the door. Lots of crazy possibilities with this one.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm intrigued by this thought.

[Anonymous No.]

The problem i have with using the cigerette as evidence is that it's like a massive shout out to V.D rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466523
he liked to make fun of Van dine's rules

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466523
he loves making fun of Van Dine's rules such as
-NO romantic development
-No long expositions

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466540
You have a point, so who could the culprit of EP3 be then?

[Anonymous No.]

Looks like that's the only thing that Battler got right during his battle at the episode 4 tea party: someone faked his/her death in the first/fourth-sixth twilight.
I have two theories about that, using Shkanon:
- Kyrie/Hideyoshi was attacked during the first twilight, and during a fight, found the answer to the epitaph leading her to become the next murderer. Eva found and killed Kyrie/Hideyoshi sometime after Nanjo's death.
- Shkanon survived the first twilight as they are not real names and being used only as personas. The real person behind Shkanon name was still alive and killed everyone, only to be shot by Eva near the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466449
We are tired of your spam and bullshit at www. anon eraseThisOK talk .com. Stop fucking with us.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466611
Battler was also right about Natsuhi being blackmailed. But the issue i have is Hideyoshi being killed by Eva & the point about Shkannon being someone else entirely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466636
Battler went "it's all useless after all" at Natsuhi right at the end of E5, I can't believe the blackmailing person was anyone else at him.

Also it should be pointed out that no one other than Jessica ever saw Natsuhi and Krauss's corpses and the first thing she did was storming inside and pulling the stakes out.

And also, for me the most important thing about E3 is that you have to somehow explain the finale. You have to explain why did Eva shoot Battler. He was with her the whole time with her and while they were out, Nanjo died. Battler came back, saw the scene and said that Eva is the culprit. Why did he do that? And furthermore, Eva said "yeah" and killed him.
To explain this, there must be someting major missing in this scene. there are basically three scenarios:

1) George's corpse was lying there. Unlikely, Battler said he looked really dead.
2) Hideyoshi's corpse was lying there. A wound at that place SHOULD be deadly, but I'd bet at this nevertheless.
3) When they returned, Kyrie was leaning at the wall by Nanjo's corpse. Since she looked really creepy, having an open stomatch wound for two hours, Eva freaked out at the zombie, though she is delusional, shot her. Battler's reaction really makes most sense this way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466636
I'm curious, what's the consensus on the person blackmailing Natsuhi? Is the child still alive and on the island, or is it merely someone who knows about what happened and using that knowledge for their own gain?

Also: who could the voice be? Realistically, the only people who could do a young man's voice would be Kanon and George.

[Trollkastel !!YSTYW7Om7uL No.]

>>4466793

I thought it was hard to tell the gender as well, because of the bad line or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466746
>Battler came back, saw the scene and said that Eva is the culprit. Why did he do that?

This could have been a result of what occurred in the meta-world; Battler gave up and overlooked the one step.
Eva was probably at the point where she was unable to discern what was really going on. Battler calling her the culprit after finding George's body just made it worse. Or if a 'corpse' did move, she may have believed that Battler was in on a plan to pin her as a murderer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466811
Sorry.
*overlooked one step

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466803
Why would the line be bad? I thought the call was supposed to have originated from elsewhere on the island. Also, if they worked okay in EP4 between Battler and Jessica, I can't think why they'd suddenly be bad in EP5.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466793
Yeah, because it sound like a young man, that doesn't rule out that it was female.

Also, if we believe the story about the child being 19 years old, all that I have so far is that this child must be born right around the time Rosa killed Beatrice, in the year of 1967.

>>4466746
What's hard about the finale is the change between 1st person and 3rd person narration. We know that Battler does accuse Eva, as that is in 1st person. However, I don't remember the rest, but I'm fairly certain that the shooting happened in 3rd person.

My question is, what happened to Jessica? We are told that she dies the 10th twilight, but is she really just forgotten? Does she really hide in the parlor (next to a broken window, no less) until the explosion?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466611
The problem I have with this is that Shannon definitely is dead, unless you claim that she's been dead beforehand. The other is the red text about the five master keys, although looking back (at the wiki), the red only says that there are five master keys, not that they actually received them.

Besides that, I'm trying to construct a theory that the servants are definitely not killers. And I'm not sure if I can accept at all this idea that someone can "be dead" because they are a persona, while the person continues to live.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466989
Her TIPS and Battler's TIPS in ep3 are the most suspicious part of this ep.

[Anonymous No.]

I haven't really read much of the thread, but regarding Episode 3, did anyone point out that Rosa thought whomever EVA-Beatrice was (If s/he even exists) the Beatrice from 19 years ago?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466989
>What's hard about the finale is the change between 1st person and 3rd person narration. We know that Battler does accuse Eva, as that is in 1st person. However, I don't remember the rest, but I'm fairly certain that the shooting happened in 3rd person.

It's all 3rd person, just like pretty much all of Umineko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467036
A red in ep2 is saying that there is 5 master keys, and that every servant possess one of them

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467039
>>4466989
To that, the official tarots have Battler dressed as Amakusa. It can't be said that you can trust those at all, but if you do, they explain a ton of things in a way most fans would want them. And if nothing else, it means "Yeah, we know it's obvious".

Also, the single most frightening part about the whole E3 is dead Jessica's grin in TIPS.

[Anonymous No.]

The First Twilight is easy to pin down in terms of alibis (lol I'm Erika):

Start with 18 people.
Remove the 6 "victims" (servants + Kinzo) = 12.
Remove the 7 adults (unless you believe they ALL did it), they were at the conference all night = 5.
Remove Battler, Maria, and probably Jessica for red or implausibility = 2.
George's alibi is shaky as he's in the cousins' room so if you don't believe he could slip out = 1.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467036
>The other is the red text about the five master keys, although looking back (at the wiki), the red only says that there are five master keys, not that they actually received them.

I don't get it. What about the master keys is problematic for Shannon surviving?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467057
Damn, I could've sworn that it began in first person, but after checking myself, that picture is correct. It's all third person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467110
The way it's stated is problematic for ShKanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467057
I forgot about the sun part.
Somehow it makes me think about bombs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467131
Not really.
I really don't see the problem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467138
# All five master keys were discovered, each in the pocket of one of the servants!
# The individual keys were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses!

Shannon and Kanon were dead, there were five servants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467110
Nothing about the keys, it's just that now I can't remember if Battler knows for certain that the adults have all the keys. However, the red text is one that most people use against ShKanon, as there is one key per servant.

However, Shannon is declared dead in red, which you claim can mean as a persona. But Battler does see her corpse before Nanjo dies. The argument would have to be that he does not look at her corpse closely enough.

Also, I know what is bothering me about the persona argument. In red, it states that "Only the victims are inside the rooms, and no other people exist inside the rooms." If the victim is a persona, then it would be impossible for the "actual person" to exist in the room. Although I guess the red text for this first twilight is kind of iffy and sparse, as we are never guaranteed that the victims are inside the rooms, only that if someone is inside the room, it can only be the victims.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467057
Battler is Amasuka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467176
># All five master keys were discovered, each in the pocket of one of the servants!

Ok, this is why the wiki seemed sparse. This red was missing for some reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466989
>what happened to Jessica

I guess she may have been caught up in the explosion. What's interesting is that the explosion obliterates their bodies, with the exception of Maria's jaw. The police couldn't even find their remains and Eva was unable to collect the insurance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467202
It's from EP4.

>>4467195
I'm just repeating what Shkanontrice people told me when I tried to uphold Kyrie as Nanjo's murderer. Basically, it's like this: Shannon murders the three other servants, puts Kinzo in the boiler and pretends to be dead during the first twilight. Kanon's corpse (in the chapel) is (probably) fake. The adults discover the corpses and collect the keys. Shannon escapes through the broken window, and murders Krauss and Natsuhi, stealing the chapel key afterwards. This is where it gets ridiculous: she redresses Kanon's (fake) corpse and plants it in the first floor room Shannon was originally in. This is the corpse that everyone sees when they find George.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467202
>>4467176
Where is the problem?
Nothing there pose any problem to ShKanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467242
The problem with that is that it is impossible.
#Only the victims are inside the rooms, and no other people exist inside the rooms.

>>4467228
This picture is interesting, because it still may be that Jessica and Battler lived, and in fact, implies so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467243
The problem is that you must have five bodies for
# The individual keys were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses!
to explain the six rooms.
You must also explain why one servant would have two master keys.
If you claim that one was alive, you must place them outside of any of the rooms, for the red saying that only the victims were in the rooms. If the victim is a persona, then the "other person" cannot be in the room.
If this is the case, then again, another corpse must be found so that a master key can be put in its pocket.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467254
Not impossible with the DID shenanigan thing.
After all it was "Shannon" that was found in the room and "Kanon" that was found in the chapel, that's how they were perceived by others.
If Beatrice "killed" them in a metaphorical way, it makes them victims.

You have to think about WHY the closed room was made that way.
For the first twilight of episode 1 and 2, it's easy to understand why they were done they way they were.
Episode 1 was a simple "hide the tree in the forest" trick to create a perfect setup for ShKanon.
And everything was done in episode 2 to give the leading part to Rosa

Why was episode 3 done in such a way?
Why were all the bodies separated?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467282
>># The individual keys were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses!
Number of corpses isn't stated.

>>You must also explain why one servant would have two master keys.
Natsuhi and Kinzo don't know about ShKanon, they gave a key to both, as simple as that.

See? It's easy.

[Anonymous No.]

Dumb question, but everyone else in Kinzo's family has 10 fingers and 10 toes, right?

It was mentioned in EP1 that Kinzo's Polydactyl condition was hereditary, so surely it'd be possible that another family member might also have the condition, and could've stood in for the body in the furnace in EP1 (or even the further episodes).

Not to say that Kinzo isn't dead before the murders start (that much was confirmed), but it seems strange to suddenly try to burn Kinzo's corpse a year after his death. Also, I doubt Krauss or anyone in on the "Weekend at Kinzo's" plan would've thought it a good idea to keep the body in the mansion anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467254
That was actually proclaimed after the bodies were found. If Shkanon was already gone by that time, that doesn't hold water.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467309
I won't accept this. I explained my reasoning here
>>4467282

In any case, let's say that it even is possible. Try coming up with another theory. That's the point of this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466452
The servants and Nanjo locked themselves inside the six rooms to fake their deaths, like in EP6. Nanjo snuck out of the boiler room later and burned Kinzo's corpse in his place. After the rooms were broken into, Nanjo lagged behind the search party with some excuse and stabbed all of the victims with a stake. That way, everyone was actually dead by the time the search party returned to the guesthouse, when Beato confirmed the deaths.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467317
You realize that this is absurd? I won't accept that Natsuhi doesn't know.

>>4467331
This happened during a recreation of the crime scene, so it should hold water.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467327
Yes, theoretically speaking, it's possible there was another person with polydactyly on the island. No clues were provided to that end, though, so there's no reason why it shouldn't be Kinzo's corpse in the boiler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467327
Burning Kinzo seemed to just be the culprit covering his or her bases. Suspicion would fall on Kinzo and might screw up their plans. It's all conjecture but it could work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467366
>>I won't accept that Natsuhi doesn't know.

The entire concept of ShKanon is stupid, it doesn't mean that it's wrong.
For ShKanon to work you have to accept that lots of people don't know, even on the island, and considering all the clues and foreshadowing we got, I'd say that Natsuhi doesn't know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467327
>Dumb question, but everyone else in Kinzo's family has 10 fingers and 10 toes, right?
Supposedly. Only Battler's birth is unclear. But you're correct, Natsuhi mentioned that polydactyly runs in the Ushiromiya family.

Natshi made a big deal about preserving the body at least. Keeping it in the mansion would be a huge risk...but I can't imagine where else the corpse could be located. The culprit cannot enter the courtyard from outside the mansion, but enter through the boiler room (I believe there were two exits to the courtyard).

[Anonymous of Germany !WvzhzxDiIQ No.]

I like the Kanon died before the game and Shannon acts his place theory better.

That way two seperate bodies would exist and it would be possible for them to have a master key each. That would also mean that ep3 was done without Shkannon's influence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467419
Except lambda's red deny it

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467419
Doesn't work with Knox or the red text about how nobody can use Kanon's name except himself.

[Anonymous of Germany !WvzhzxDiIQ No.]

>>4467432

Thinking about it, it doesn't work with episode 6's red either. But it would work the other way around: Shannon is dead and Kanon is pretending to be her.

Only that would make George gay. But if he was that would kinda make sense, also as to why his relationship with Shkannon would be so impossible. His mother would never accept for her son to be gay... okay I'll stop now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467432
>use Kanon's name

That might be the loophole someone brought up. >No can *claim* Kanon's name but himself.
But someone can temporarily use it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467458
That makes more sense. She would've had a good opportunity to die when she went to the shrine to break the mirror.

[Anonymous No.]

A witch did it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467475
>>4467473
>>4467458
Knox.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467491
>10. Twin brothers, and doubles generally, must not appear unless we have been duly prepared for them.

There are clues for it. Stupid clues, but clues.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467491
Which Knox rule are you referring to?

[Anonymous of Germany !WvzhzxDiIQ No.]

>>4467475

It also explains the lack of a defend one's breasts reflex in episode 1.

>>4467491

If DID passes Knox then this passes Knox by far.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467317 Number of corpses isn't stated.

# 6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
# The 6 people died instantly!
# The 6 people were not killed by traps
# None of the 6 people committed suicide!
# I shall say more with the red! When the five other than Kinzo were murdered, the murderer was definitely in the same room!

Dude, you should check shit before making more shit up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467504
There is no clue that Shannon or Kanon could have died in the past, that they are siblings or look like each other enough to pass for the other.

There are tons of clues indicating that they are the same person but it's not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.]

Poor Knox is spinning in his grave so fast that he could beat Gurren Lagann in a drilling contest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467520
You are the one that should check before posting.
I see nothing about the number of corpses there.

ShKanon(trice) implies that persona/personalities can die.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467508
I'd say he is refering to the cosplay rule.

The point is that it's never stated that they look like each other and no one ever said that one could dress as another, so at foreshadowing, it actually fails really hard.

The joke is that it's mentioned like three times that Shannon can dress up as Beatrice to delude Maria.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467357
If the boiler room door actually does have a lock on it, this doesn't work. There's another way for someone to add in Kinzo's corpse without the others' knowledge though.

Suppose the ring of closed rooms was only supposed to have five people and five rooms in it. Each person has a master key and a key to the next room in the chain, and they can get keys to unused rooms from the servants' room keybox. Using one's own keys and an unused key, it's easy to add a new room to the chain without anyone else's help.

2F Guest Room -> Chapel -> Parlor
Kumasawa in the 2F guest room has the chapel key. She can burn Kinzo in the boiler room, put the chapel key in there, lock it with the boiler room key, and then lock herself inside the 2F guest room.

2F Guest Room -> Boiler -> Parlor
Kanon in the boiler room has the parlor key. He can burn Kinzo's body in the boiler room, leave the chapel key there, lock it with his master key, and then lock himself inside the chapel with the parlor key.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467107
I like it, only because George is also shaky as hell in Episode 2. Out of everyone in Natsuhi's room, he is the one that appears to not be dead. Stabbed in the stomach, and Battler doesn't get to check him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467574
Well the 1 to which I'm referring is Nanjo. But if you believe George can get out without anyone noticing he can do it too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467537
Hmm. How do you explain the part about Shannon's corpse being found first, then Kanon's corpse being found, then George snuggling dead Shannon's breasts?

Hell, why is it that everytime I am arguing with a ShKanon believer it's like I am talking with a same damn person as ten times before?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467671
How do you explain that the one episode when Shannon and Kanon died in the first twilight, the corpses were positioned in such a way?
Why were they all separated?
Don't you think that the culprit wanted to hide something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467671
Duh dude Shkanon pretends to be dead in the parlor because she somehow knows they'll go there first even though she can't possibly know they won't just break down the boiler room door instead, then she sneaks out without anyone noticing her, goes to the chapel dressed as Kanon, pretends to be dead and is once again able to fool all 7 Ushiromiya parents, then for some reason re-dresses as Shannon, returns to the parlor, and pretends to be dead/dies so that George can find her exactly where she was before.

What part of the brilliance of Shkanon's ability to simply and easily explain all of Umineko is difficult for you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467671
Is it a coincidence that Shkanon believers are amazing samefags themselves?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467671
Personally I feel like I always read your post.
Are you a Jessitrice believer as well?

[Anonymous of Germany !WvzhzxDiIQ No.]

>>4467687

My personal theory is that episode 3's first twilight was commited by Krauss/Natsuhi to stimultaniously get rid of the Kinzo as well as the Shannon / Kannon problem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467740
The 7 adults were together all night.
They all observed each others, that's a pretty good alibi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467750
Moreover, the adults have conflicting objectives, so they have no reason to conspire to murder the servants.

Also, their behavior the next morning is nonsensical if THEY were the murderers.

[Anonymous No.]

Completely unrelated, but look at a hiragana chart. Compare the names Chiyo and Sayo, for Kumasawa Chiyo and "Shannon" Sayo.

Also, at the end of episode 3, when spirit Kanon is escorting Jessica. It tells us that Kanon's powers were modeled after Ronove's. Hint that he is Genji's son? Something else? Perhaps they are the same person? Ronove and Kanon are the only two I ever see use the word "Milady", for example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467740
I don't think those two are intelligent enough to construct a multiple closed room scenario.

If they ever killed anyone, I'd assume it wouldn't be constructed as a puzzle.

Kyrie loves that kind of thing, so she's been ranked pretty high for me, even if it's unlikely.

[Anonymous No.]

In ep6, Kanon mentions Genji being like a father and Kumasawa like a mother in his internal monologue.

That could be fake and it doesn't prove shit but if Kanon and Shannon were the biological children of Genji or Kinzo or somebody it would make sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467710
I'm a Jesstrice hoper. Coincidence?

>>4467703
Protip: It's actually ShKaAnon

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467767
Well, let's say that Kanon's middle name is 'Kinzo'. He was named that way by Kumasawa, who loved Kinzo and wanted to take him home.

Explains the 6th game closed room pretty well.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm not sure Japanese people have middle names.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467913
Well, with Kinzo's obsession with western things, it could happen. There's no rule that forbids Japanese people from a "middle name", after all.

It's still a giant stretch, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467767
Genji and Kinzo are boys, they can't have children together, unless...

GENJI IS BEATO

[Anonymous No.]

>>4468085
They're gay lovers, Kumasawa is there to provide them with children.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4468104
And take him shopping and buy leather pants and give him an earrings =^_^=

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467976
I'm actually curious, as the (almost) entire Ushiromiya family has colored hair, while both Kinzo and his wife should be japanese. Meaning that they should only have black hair, like the servants.

[Trollkastel !!YSTYW7Om7uL No.]

>>4468542

Kinzo's from a branch of the branch family, we don't really have any proof he's 100% Japanese. Nor any proof his wife was either. Hell, maybe he had children with Beatrice, or something. Do we have any proof any of the siblings are the children of Kinzo's wife and not Beatrice? Maybe there was some complicated affairs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4468626
See, these ideas occured to me as well. However, we know at least that Kinzo's wife had "black hair" (according to Battler), and was most likely Japanese, as it was an arranged marriage for power before the war. Kinzo is also a very Japanese name, but yes, we don't have a guarantee that he is full Japanese. Considering the time period, it seems most likely.

Battler does say, though, that he could see his grandmother looking like Beatrice in her younger days, except for the hair.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467823
Jessitrice hoper?
Well, I suppose anything beats the Rokkenjima bicycle, but if Jessica's involved, she ain't involved in a nice way....

[Anonymous No.]

Has anyone ever compiled all of the current Umineko theories? I know there's Shkannontrice, Moon-chan, Doubletrice/Fusiontrice, Kanontrice, and a couple outdated or forgotten ones like the Manon Tunnels theory or the Pony Theory.

I want to see if there are more, just in case they don't involve Kinzo rape.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467689
I know you're being sarcastic, but I would like to point out that the people died instantly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466448
We are tired of your spam and bullshit at www. anon eraseThisOK talk .com. Stop fucking with us. You owe Sysop over $10,000 USD due to your harassments. Pay up by donating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4468833
Pony theory, outdated or forgotten?

[Anonymous No.]

>Manon Tunnels

Oh lol. You forgot Teatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4468940
The Pony Theory is dead.

It's as useless as kicking a dead horse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4468965
But we already know that Teatrice is the indisputable truth.

[Anonymous No.]

I miss this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467458
But Kanon is a girl.

[Anonymous No.]

Kanon is a man and Shannon is a girl, they are not the same person.
Jessica is innocent.
Kyrie is innocent.
Genji is innocent.
FINAL DESTINATION

[Anonymous No.]

>>4468940
Outdated.

Hell, all of the current theories are derivatives of Shkanon.
Moon-chan is basically JESSICA IS SOMEWHAT SKETCHY + Shkanon to make HOLY SHIT JESSICA IS REALLY SKETCHY.

And Shkanontrice is pretty much the truth. Unless Ryukushi pulls Doubletrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469011
It's time for a fap-off. Like a face-off but it sounds much worse.

Blonde and bouncy Beato or loli reverse trap Kanon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469024
>And Shkanontrice is pretty much the truth.

Shkanontrice has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

[Anonymous No.]

Jesstrice+Shkannon+Taiwan theory = what i believe

perfect

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469022
>Jessica
>Kyrie
>Innocent

[Anonymous No.]

Actually, OP, it's highly likely that Episode 3 was a hijack by a different person, and not something done by the usual culprit. Note that in all other Episodes, at least some of the servants remain alive after the first twilight. Episode 3 is the only one in which all the servants are killed in that twilight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469024
> Unless Ryukushi pulls Doubletrice.
He's going to.

He may even pull a Tripletrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469031
Yes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469054
Tripletrice?
The fuck does that work?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469031
Battler can have both, if he just kills that fat-fuck George.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469062
Everyone have their own Beatrice.Jessica, Shannon and Kanon.Oh shi-

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469071
But...uh... Shannon and Kanon and Beato are the samefag.
Jessica may be involved in that, but the main players are those three(or one lol)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469062
If it does happen, it'd be like this:

Kanon is a girl. Shkanontrice is not true. Shannon, Kanon, and Jessica are all Beatrice. Shannon was the one who Battler made his promise to, Kanon is the one who Kinzo forced the legend of the witch on, and Jessica had a crush on Battler and formed a Beatrice personality. Something like that, probably.

But yeah, Doubletrice is the most likely solution at this point. The problem is that if Shkanon is not true, then we don't know if the Beatrices are Jessica and Kanon, Jessica and Shannon, or Shannon and Kanon, though as stated, Tripletrice would have all of them being Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469089
*Shkanon is not true

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

Xellos did it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469089
Or:
Shkanontrice is true. Moon-chan is trolling.
Shkanontrice is true, through some divine act of god Moon-chan failed to notice that her love interest is her best friend, Shannon.

If the latter is true.... Ryukushi better explain it.

[Anonymous No.]

This personalities stuff is getting out of hand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469110
GOD DAMN THAT ASSHOLE.
OH LOOK AT ME, I'M A GENERAL AND A PRIEST.
FUCK YOU XELLOS, I GET SHIT DONE TOO, AND ALL I HAVE IS A GODDAMN SWORD.

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

>>4469127
Haters gonna hate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469127
Didn't I kill you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466448
We are tired of your spam and bullshit at www. anon eraseThisOK talk .com. Stop fucking with us. You owe Sysop over $10,000 USD due to your harassments. Pay up by donating.

[Anonymous No.]

And then Umineko was a Slayers thread.

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

Lina x Lord of Nightmares is my OTP

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469110
Considering who Xellos' daughter is, that makes sense.

[Anonymous No.]

Small bombs are the culprit. Battler proved it. Why are we arguing?

[Anonymous No.]

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

>>4469168
Oh god, Umineko is really just an alternate universe Slayers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469167
Please, LON's OTP is totally Lina and Gourry.
She's such a fangirl it's not even funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469168
GODDAMN IT.
I CAN NOT UNSEE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469169
Battler said himself during episode 6 that his small bombs theory was ridiculous and that he's really embarassed every time he remembers about it.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469180
Pics or it didn't happen

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469180
>somewhat interesting fact from EP6
>EP6
>FUCKING EPISODE SIX THREE PERCENT

I want to say something coherent. I had a thought that made sense, I really did. But then the WITCH HUUUUNT kicked in.

Three percent.

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

>>4469177
LoN only let Lina keep her body and Gourry because she loves Lina so much she wanted her to be happy!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469180
small bombs?
RIDICULOUS!
Large, gigantic, military bomb that DESTROYS THE ENTIRE ISLAND?
The truth!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469198
Nah, LON's a tsundora, once Gourry grabbed her she totally went all dere-dere and brought Lina back to life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469201
BOILER > BOMB

[Anonymous No.]

The more I read I can only think there are multiple culprits in each episode.

End of episode 3 was total bullshit though, no way to get past that at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469210
But wait a tic, the boiler is usually Kanon and Jessica's haun-
Goddamnit.

But no, a boiler-room wouldn't blow up an island.

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

Amelia x CurryButt is my OTP

[Anonymous No.]

>>4468626
Goddamn Bern looks creepy when she smiles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469047
And? There's no hint that the first twilight was by a different culprit. In fact, it's very unlikely. The letters still come at this point, still urging everyone to find the gold.

Every game has different sacrifices in different orders, that's the entire point. And this confirms all deaths of the servants, meaning that this is his strong hint that the culprit is not among the servants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469228
Kinzo had small bombs planted on the boiler causing a chain reaction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469228
But the island doesn't blow up. A building does. The boiler is large, janky, and ancient. It could level a building.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469231
Funny, Amelia x Me is my OTP....

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469242
Episode two, then. The ending with Rosa running like hell doesn't make sense if it's only one building getting blown to shit.

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

>>4469209
Wrong.

LoN just wanted Lina to be happy, but then got jealous - then during a fight on Rokkenjima she used the Giga Slave and LoN decided to go out of control and destroy the island along with everyone on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469250
Shrapnel, maybe? Fire spreading?

Propulsion of objects + fire + ROSA IS FUCKING NUTS.

[Anonymous No.]

Hi guys, am I late?

[Anonymous No.]

It's Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

It's a bomb.
That's what the whole CLOCK TICKING that is used so goddam much means.
Same for the broken mirror catch that is seen during the transitions, the symbolism is obvious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469262
You're always late.

SNAKES DON'T HAVE LEGS

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469277
Broken mirror...

OH GODDAMMIT RYUKISHI, STOP MAKING MIRRORS SO IMPORTANT

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469278
Yeah, she said snakes don't have legs, truly she must be a moron of epic proportions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469277
If there was a bomb on the island, Rudolf would have saved everyone in 24 hours.
You know this to be true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466450
We are tired of your spam and bullshit at www. anon eraseThisOK talk .com. Stop fucking with us. You owe Sysop over $10,000 USD due to your harassments. Pay up by donating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469236
EP1 first twilight was brutal, with the plowing of the faces.

EP2 has the same brutal nature, stuffing the corpses' stomach cavities with candy is utterly pointless other than to fuck with the survivors heads.

But then we get to EP3, and it's very meticulous, methodical, and there is no apparent mutilation of the bodies post mortem, unlike the first two episodes.

One of these is not like the other. Whoever did 1 and 2 did not do 3. That doesn't mean it's a different culprit of course, it could just be a different accomplice who did it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469285
Mirrors will always be important because when Ryukishi looks in the mirror, all he can see is BT.

Who looks like Rifyu's infant self-insert, of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469303
Which is why I say to you, Shkanontrice isn't a victim, she's an asshole.
SHE STUFFED PEOPLE WITH CANDY.
GODDAMN CANDY.
SOME VICTIM, EH?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469294
WHERE'S THE BOMB?

I am a VERY busy man, and I need to know where that bomb is. We can do this the easy way, where you tell me right now, or we can do this MY way. Now, WHERE IS IT?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469236
But if you're going to treat it like that, then you might as well declare Nanjo the culprit since he's never been killed before the third twilight of ANY Episode.

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

There's hidden gold there so Lina and party go to get it, Xellos wants to stir up trouble so he throws his daughter on the island before they arrive in a plan to make LoN go out of control. LoN goes out of control as planned and wipes out the island and the happenings of each 'game' by messing up the world so badly it gets stuck in some sort of fucked up time loop so the events keep happening. Beato was just another ex-servant of Gaav's so this all needed to be done to destroy her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469313
Well, I don't buy Shkanontrice, but I agree that whoever did 1 and 2 really deserves no pity.

If you're being coerced to kill, there is redemption in that, but toying with the bodies in such a gruesome way is just for some sick enjoyment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469329
inb4theNanjoisactuallyNanjo'sgranddaughtertheory

[Anonymous No.]

I've completely forgotten if the chapel closed room from EP2 has been solved.

Anyone?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469303
Or, it simply could be a problem of time. It takes much more time to set up six rooms than one single room. There's also the idea that the culprit is losing a good deal of accomplices, as many or most of the servants are helping in one way or another. Especially if you take into account their magic counterparts.

[Anonymous No.]

The only reason I don't want to believe ShKanon is that if they are related to the culprit in anyway, it'd mean the butler did it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469345
The best I've heard is that it's never stated that the door was actually locked to begin with. Just that if it is locked, it can only be opened with the key. Definitely makes Rosa shady, if she wasn't already (shown to be in the chapel with the adults, yet isn't killed, to start with).

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469339
See, my major beef is that the Shkanontrice people make a good point, and that it is quite possible that there really is only on REAL Rokkenjima.


Which means, in a nutshell.

Shannon went crazy, killed everyone, Eva got blamed for it, and somehow Battler thinks this is ok and marries her.

feelsbadman

[Anonymous No.]

>>And Shkanontrice is pretty much the truth. Unless Ryukushi pulls Doubletrice.

Enjoy your trolling by Ryukishi un ep7.

[Anonymous No.]

ITT: Fags fail to recognize the real culprit

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469363
She already is shady, considering in EP2 she claims to have spoken to Kinzo, which is obviously impossible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469372
Y'know, I'd be fine with Maria just dying.
UUUU BEATRICE IS GOING TO MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY BY KILL THEM IN CRUEL WAYS UUUU.

Rosa should have slapped the shit outta her more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469285
Broken mirror = ego being broken.

If you guys didn't realize, every episodes so far had some focus on the whole multiple personality thing

Episode 1: Maria, especially what George said about her creating a witch persona within herself and how it was natural in some way.

Episode 2: Jessie, the persona that Jessica created in school

Episode 3: Eva-Beatrice, the witch that Eva created within herself and that is the personification of her ambitions.

Episode 4: Maria and MARIA, the real essence of magic being a gentle delusion.

Episode 5: Natsuhi's delusion being a projection of her desires.

It actually seems to go crescendo, from episode 1 that show nothing more than a little girl playing the role of a witch to episode 5 with Natsuhi projecting her own heart desire in reality so much she believes these scenes to be true.

If you see the progression, it goes like this:
-Simple roleplaying
-Simple mask in school
-a better image of herself within one heart
-projecting in a diary
-projecting something you'd want to see in reality.

Perhaps it's R07's way to prepare for the real deal with a full blown projection of a person within reality, aka DID.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469372
Well, with all the chess analogies, 16 people on the island = 16 chess pieces, she DOES wear that hat that looks like a kings piece.

It's just too bad that's impossible, since she's a retarded nine year old.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469400
Don't forget about Eva side-stepping Battler's blue text of Jessica having another persona.
Which is all very well and good, but the concept is rather annoying.

No, I don't think Shannon is innocent because her Beatrice persona did it, not in the slightest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469400
I don't think you can call magic a dellusion. Ryukishi will find something more... "beautiful" than that.

Anyway Shkannon could be a hint for a DID for anyone on the island, or maybe even all the family for an unknow reason X. let's be generous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469424
>Don't forget about Eva side-stepping Battler's blue text of Jessica having another persona.

This was already explained many times. Jessica's other 'persona' is Jessie. EVA wouldn't have any knowledge about this and was unable to confirm it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469437
Objection!
Read the text, it refers to a witch-like persona.
Explictily stated to be WITCH-LIKE.

Although I wasn't trying to argue for Moon-chan or what not, just helping you with the foreshadowing for DID, bra.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469437
That's stupid.
A mask is a mask, it can't change Jessica's name.
Persona like Jessie =/= DID
Jessica when she is Jessie still knows that she is Jessica, she is just acting more cheerfully and friendly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469456
objectively, we don't know. All we know is 2 imprecise lines from herself, so it is still a possibility.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469456
True. But if we have any more people with DID, I think I just may grow an ulcer.
Goddamnit, Eva.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469466
The Jessie persona is not a witch-like persona.
The Jessie persona is just how Jessica acts around her classmates.
Ergo, Jessie doesn't apply to the shenanigans in episode

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469474
You already have someone who could have DID, no need to create another.
Jessica doesn't have DID, nothing in the game even show the slightest clue toward this.
For the Jessie thing, EVERYONE do that, it's normal human behavior.

What you should think about this conversation she had with Kanon is what she really meant.
She wanted to know the real Kanon behind the mask.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469494
Not quite. Her speak on personas seemed to be a defense of them, rather than a SHOW ME YOUR TRUE SELF speech.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469481
Not a witch-like, ok.
Not a real DID, we just don't know.
It's just the way she describes it to Kanon, because she wanted him to do that. Maybe it is actually more "serious".
White = open to interpretation, and very sensitive to the context.
I don't think that it is the case neither and it is highly improbable, but you can't say that is is impossible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469513
You should read it again.
She was obviously trying to make him open up.
That's why he took it as a confession and rejected her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469450
Jessie is witch-like. Not the kind of witch that Beatrice is, though.

[Anonymous No.]

..Regardless if a personality 'takes' over, it still needs a functioning body. Jessica was blinded, so if her witch personality was called 'Marisa', she still couldn't do shit.

But there's the case with EVA's form. Even if Ushiromiya Eva did not murder Nanjo, someone else was under that guise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469546
Blinded. It is another suspicious thing in ep3.
EVA only says that her eyes where blocked in red, twice. Even if it don't solve anything because of the

"It's impossible for her to carry out a murder like that"
, it's still pretty "funny"

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469546
> someone else was under that guise.
Or just "someone else killed Nanjo". They didn't have to be pretending to be Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

Damn, I create this thread to try to get some new theories around, and instead it's just like every other Umineko thread: arguing over DID and such among Jessica, Kanon, and Shannon. How droll. I'll try to post a theory for episode 3 sometime this weekend, hopefully, if I can work out all the details. Maybe multiple theories. None of which use ShKanon, because they will be dead at the first twilight.

Further, what's with adding -trice to Kanon or Shannon or both? Because they see Beatrice? So do many others, most specifically, Natsuhi all through episode 5. Does that make Natsuhi Beatrice as well? Just because they "share" it doesn't change a thing, they're just lonely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4467369

They mentioned in episode 1, when they find Kinzo's burnt corpse, that people born with polydactly often have the extra toe removed at birth. So if Battler or anyone else had polydactyly they would never know about it. The parents might know though...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469584
There may not be much evidence of Shannon being Beatrice, but there are a hell of a lot of hints towards Kanon being Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469584
In ep6, Beatrice is supposed to be Shannon/Kanon's 3rd personality, created to love Battler.
If you ask me, I don't believe in it at all. But some people take ep6 literally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469617
We don't know who created her. It could have been Shannon, it could have been Kanon, it could have been someone else. All we know is that she was created to love Battler.


...Beatrice.
Listen carefully.
I will turn over my love for Battler to you.
Become the woman Battler desires.

I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
I will give you the personality suited to him that he desires.
And... In place of me, love him.
And if possible, be loved by him.

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

From this day forward, you are no longer the phantom of Rokkenjima who only plays tricks.
From this day forward, you are the ruler of Rokkenjima, and the one who waits for him to return until he fulfills his promise.

From this day forward, you will inherit that in my place.
Thus, from this day forward, you are no longer me.

I will push all of my suffering on to you... Please forgive me for being the only one to become happy.

From this day forward, you have the qualifications to detest everything.
You are the Golden Witch, Beatrice.

And someday.
Destroy everything, revive everything.
...Bless all lovers.

At that time.
...For both you and I to find happiness together...I will be wishing for from the bottom of my heart.

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
Let's split up our one soul and share it.
Each half will naturally be less than one soul.
But surely that will allow us to see more dreams than a person would.
May we be blessed...
My dear Beatrice...

Although no one else can see your form,
at least I can see you.
And if you are loved by many people,
surely everyone else will become able to see you too.
With love, we can see...

[Anonymous No.]

Shkanon isn't a very useful theory in episode 3 at all.

Episode 3 is obviously an episode where the real mastermind was exposed and then there was a counter murder. So while the first twilight murders are usually 5 family members and 1 servant or 6 family members in episode 2. Episode 3 is different because it has a counter culprit. Since the counter culprit discovered who the real mastermind was and that his accomplices were the servants so the counter culprit killed the servants. So if the real master mind has control of some of the servants episode 3's first twilight can makes sense with a different murderer. The counter culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469633
And now you've gotten me thinking about Counter Guardians.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469597
This one always get posted. And I really don't see it. I personally think it's taken out of context.

There's also the talk about in Episode 1, with Battler, Genji, Kumasawa, Kanon, and Maria at the end. However, that doesn't help either, as when they say that "Beatrice is here" or something to that effect, no one is looking at Kanon, or near Kanon. They are looking off to one side of Battler.

Plus, Episode 2 and 3, he's confirmed dead pretty early. Which is weird for someone supposed to be Beatrice.

Also, Episode 2, I need to get the screenshot, but after Shannon and Genji meet with everyone around the time of Jessica's death. Shannon says something along the lines of "the Master had us copy..." before Genji hushes her. This conversation almost confirms (to me) that they were meant to copy down the magic circles, and perhaps put them up themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469642
You seriously don't see it? Read the last bit again. Why would Maria say "Let's study magic together" to Kanon, of all people? Think about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469633
The thing I don't like about this argument is that there are no hints. There are hints to a second culprit after Eva finds the gold, but not before.

And if there somehow happens to be a "counter culprit," the real culprit just uses it to their advantage. Plus it doesn't explain why they didn't kill Nanjo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469584
>Damn, I create this thread to try to get some new theories around, and instead it's just like every other Umineko thread: arguing over DID and such among Jessica, Kanon, and Shannon. How droll.

16-17 people on the island. Process of elimination.

Krauss: Not the culprit
Natushi: Not the culprit
Eva: Likely not the culprit
Hideyoshi: We know fuck all about him either way, but fairly unlikely
Rosa: Given her track record, seems a little difficult for her to be a culprit. Accomplice, sure
Rudolf: See Rosa

Genji: Would be quite an asspull, although very likely an accomplice
Nanjo: Almost guaranteed an accomplice
Kumasawa: Not really any foreshadowing to being the mastermind, very possibly another accomplice
Gohda: Another who we know fuck all about, there shouldn't even be a motive for him to slaughter everyone

Battler: Not the culprit
Maria: Autistic nine year old is not the mastermind

Kyrie, Jessica, Shannon/Kanon, and maybe sort of George are the only ones you can really argue for the culprit. George only works if piece Beatrice is a pawn for the culprit, and even then, he seems more like another accomplice to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469653
she also say " why don't WE meet her and play".
And Probably only because she know that Kanon can also see Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469659
> Gohda: Another who we know fuck all about, there shouldn't even be a motive for him to slaughter everyone
We do know about Gohda, from the TIP that was about him, but it only makes Gohda even less likely to be the culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469584
>Further, what's with adding -trice to Kanon or Shannon or both? Because they see Beatrice? So do many others, most specifically, Natsuhi all through episode 5. Does that make Natsuhi Beatrice as well? Just because they "share" it doesn't change a thing, they're just lonely.

Natushi's Beatrice was a little different. She, along with Kinzo, served their purpose of keeping Natsuhi calm in one way. But no one else was able to interact with that delusion.

The "Beatrice" Kanon and Shannon see seem to be the same one. One connection as to why they can see her is probably due to some oddity regarding the Fukuin House. (Natsuhi's delusion of Beatrice also had a strange reaction to that in EP5.)

Shannon has a stronger, and in some cases, a positive connection to Beatrice than Kanon. (She refers to Beatrice showing her a glimpse of the Golden Land.) And Kanon is highly distrustful of her.

Maria..there's still something weird. She recognizes both a phantom and human Beatrice. But in some cases, after the witches coronation, Maria still didn't perceive EVA as the new Beatrice immediately. She hesitated before accepting it. So I'm not sure how disguises work with that..

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469672
Its is as bad as saying that Jessica must be Beatrice because they both have nicknames, (troll)pic related

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469657
I guess, but I just can't help but feel like it's taken out of context. I'm about to reread that portion of the story again somewhat soon, so I'll make up my mind about it then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469024
"Erika doesn't exist" is not derivative of Shkanon, and is gaining steam as Shkanon dies a slow death from ep6 info. It's probably also wrong though.

No one has fucking DID. Nobody on /jp/ even knows what DID is or how it works (granted, r07 may not either). There's assuredly some kind of "break with reality" in someone's understanding of the world, maybe even enough to conjure up a second person out of thin air, but there isn't a magical meido who can flip a mental switch and become trap butler on a whim.

If anyone did have DID, they'd be fucking freaked out and it would be impossible to hide. It's probable that it's more about what Jessica said with a persona or something rather than some wacko with the Vague VN Crazies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469681
way to over think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>Gohda: Another who we know fuck all about, there shouldn't even be a motive for him to slaughter everyone

Motive for anybody mentioned as a potential culprit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469672
Why would she know that Kanon can also see Beatrice? I don't remember Kanon or Shannon ever telling anyone else that they can see Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469694
That's the point.jpg

>>4469692
Pic related

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469698
But everyone knows that the servants believe in Beatrice. Maria also mentioned wavelengths in EP 1, so she probably thinks Kanon has the wavelength to see Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469640
With my counter culprit theory all you have to figure out is who would have control of the servants if Kinzo is dead. And since Kinzo is dead anyone who knows he's dead could order the servants if they were charismatic enough to get them on their side. Once you figure out who could have control of the servants you can figure out who the counter culprit was that killed the servants in episode 3. You can pretty much nail it down to a short list of possible suspects.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469673
OH U

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469676
Remember, Natsuhi made that delusion to help fight her feelings of loneliness. It's sort of the same feelings of hopelessness that Shannon is shown to have for George. More an imaginary friend than a personality. However, Kanon has a strong relationship with her, which explains why her can "see" the delusion. He is arguing with Shannon herself, telling her that she should act more like a servant, rather than fight for George, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469692
Screw the reality, bro, Kanon and Shannon are able to KILL personalities and to switch at will!
It is just as bad as a fantasy ending.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469709
But only two people could have PHYSICALLY done it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469709
>they were charismatic enough

Why do I suddenly think of Rudolf, who was described as a capable leader.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469692
> There's assuredly some kind of "break with reality" in someone's understanding of the world, maybe even enough to conjure up a second person out of thin air
Somebody called that the "Magical DID" theory, or alternatively the "Delusional DID" theory. Something about how, if a person created a "second identity" inside themselves, and truly believed that that second identity was a separate entity that could take control of their body, that the second identity could actually do so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469698
She probably doesn't. Kanon's meeting with Beatrice was something he wanted to disregard or he didn't believe in it initially. But the latter somewhat contradicts with what he told Gohda in his TIPS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469692
ShKanon has been stronger than ever after episode 6.

And Erika doesn't exist just doesn't work, anyone with a some slight reading comprehension know this.

[Anonymous No.]

The most crazy I'm willing to accept is that Shannon or Kanon usually dies on the 4th and the survivor of the two periodically dresses as them. Maybe they really do fight each other to the death every time.

They're not the same damn person and they don't have DID. If you had DID, you would generally not be aware that you had it. This makes it rather hard to hide from people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469733
Not this shit again. ep6 kills Shkanon harder than ep5 did. Only the surface narrative even suggests Shkanon. Read the episode sometime bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469584
It's pretty sad, yeah. I posted some theories earlier in the thread too, but it looks like everybody's brains are still trapped in the logic error with Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469733
It works just as much as Shkanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469717
Also the timing they die is too fucking convenient, its like Meta Beatrice is killing personas when she wants to mess up with Battler.

Turning the chessboard over, in a world where only you can see only one perspective, where there's no red and nobody is really trying to catch the culprit....the personas dying movement is COMPLETELY absurd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469740
And if it isn't Shkanon, then that would mean that the relationship between Shannon and Kanon is pretty damn weird.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469743
Thank you, jesus. The pieces are not aware of the red text. They don't realize that they have to kill one of their personalities now because Meta-Beatrice demands it. They need a goddamn reason to do it, if such a thing is even fucking possible, WHICH IT IS NOT.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469740
You are fucking retarded.
Show me one of those evidence that kill ShKanon.

Also for your Erika doesn't exist:
#
# She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them.
# Furudo Erika only increases it by one person.
# Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469742
I liked the theory that Erika is actually piece Beatrice, the real one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469742
And then there's the rest of us bro who reject psuedoscience, lack of research DID Shkanontrice, and bullshit, HERE BE MAGIC N SHIT LOL Erika doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4466450
We are tired of your spam and bullshit at www. anon eraseThisOK talk .com. Stop fucking with us. You owe Sysop over $10,000 USD due to your harassments. Pay up by donating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469733
Only for thoses who takes literally a part of white text, ignore the rest, and don't care about the half of the red truth. In short, thoses who don't really care about the answer.

>>
And Erika doesn't exist just doesn't work, anyone with a some slight reading comprehension know this.


And qhy not? One the the main theory is that Erika is a title. And it work just as well as Shkannon.

[Anonymous No.]

Just a question, does Lambda know the 'truth'? After I got my copy of EP6 and scrolled through it, despite there being no detective, Shannon and Kanon still don't show up side by side, except in a fantasy scene.

EP1-4: Beatrice is the GM = Kanon and Shannon are never together.
EP5: Lambda "" = They're together
Ep6: Battler "" = Separated again

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469760
why*

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469743
The pieces are just that, pieces.
If the various episodes are fictions, which is pretty damn likely so far, it can mean that the characters can be put in situation that are convenient for the storyteller, aka the Game Master.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469763
In one word, yes.

[Trollkastel !!YSTYW7Om7uL No.]

>>4469756

I want to hear this one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469754
Erika increases the limit of people allowed on the island...but not the actual amount of people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469763
I believe Ryukishi said in an interview that Lambdadelta "Should be able to use the gold, if she so desired."

Of course, he also said Erika was just misunderstood, so I don't trust anything that asshole says.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469760
>>And qhy not? One the the main theory is that Erika is a title. And it work just as well as Shkannon.
That's why you guys are retarded.
Reread Erika introduction another time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469760
You don't even need the whole "Erika is a title" thing to explain the 17-people red text without Shkanon. Erika herself stated that the game ended when she was inside the guest room. And Bernkastel had given Erika until the end of the sixth game to prove herself, which would mean that her piece form would no longer have a presence on the gameboard after the sixth game ended and thus she would no longer count as another person on the island.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469754
Hanyuu (the one who wrote ep6) and Ange (who is observing the meta-world and the game of ep6) comment that, if Beatrice's solution to the Logic Error - Kanon saving Battler - involved someone in the neighboring room (where Shannon is, in red) leaving through the Window, Dlanor's prohibition on discussing it would cause a second Logic Error.

It does not cause a second Logic Error.

Now use your brain:

The solution unquestionably involves Kanon.
The solution does not require the neighboring room window, and the neighboring room door is sealed.
No one in the neighboring room could have been involved in Beatrice's solution.
Shannon is in the neighboring room.

Shkanon is dead as a fucking doornail.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469754
Those are episode 5 reds. It's possible that she doesn't exist in episode 6 or that she died at the beginning. Also the final riddle of episode 6 makes it look like the solution is she never existed. Either that or someone else doesn't exist

# Nice to meet you, hello! I am Furudo Erika, a detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please welcome me!! I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!
# We're very sorry, but even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469774
>>Erika increases the limit of people allowed on the island...but not the actual amount of people.
HI I'M A RETARD WITH NO READING COMPREHENSION WHATSOEVER.

Seriously, where the fuck do you see anything in this red text that imply that it could refer to the limit of people?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469774
That is mere speculation, and is a stretch at that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469768
Even if fiction theory is truth, which it probably isnt, it would need a absurd cheap and shitty writer to make something like that. Its almost like introducing magic in the story as a plot mechanism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469754
For god's sake.

EP3: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa, 6 people in total are dead!

EP6: The people who were in the neighboring room at the time it was sealed were Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo. And, there were exactly five people in the neighboring room. No one other than the people corresponding to those five names existed! All names refer only to the actual people!!

Do alternate personalities count as separate people or not? Make up your damn mind.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469784
So you're saying magic exists on the gameboard?

Because if Bernkastel can erase pieces from the board at will, you might as well just say that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469770
I don't know what the whole theory is, but I can probably guess a few things. We don't actually know that much about who the person we know as Furudo Erika really is, and the fact that she supposedly was wearing a swimsuit and life vest, and jumped off of the cruise ship she was riding on near Rokkenjima is really suspicious, especially when you leave aside the idea that Bernkastel caused Erika to do that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469791

>> Furudo Erika only increases it by one person.

If she is a personnality, she can increase the number of people by one. By her body. Like anyone else.

>># Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.

Lets kill this personnality. you still have one personnality in this body. So the number stay the same.


>>Reread Erika introduction another time.

Learn that the red is subject to word play, another time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469790
First that's stupid.
The reason why it COULD provoke a second logic error was because it was stated in red that only Shannon and the others were in this room.
So, because Kanon "couldn't" exist there, that's something that wouldn't be logical.

Yet Kanon appeared without provoking a logical error.

That's basically a huge hint that Shannon, or someone else in this room, could become Kanon.

Kanon couldn't exist in this room, but someone could go out of this room and become him.
Try to read the episode yourself next time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469754
EP5: Knox 1 - The culprit must be someone introduced in the early part of the story. You cannot name someone first introduced in the fifth game as the culprit.
EP6: Erika killed the first twilight victims. She discarded her detective status in order to do so, because Knox 7 - the detective may not be the culprit.

Therefore, Erika was the culprit of EP6. But this is impossible if Erika's piece was first introduced in EP5, you see...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469798
> Even if fiction theory is truth, which it probably isnt, it would need a absurd cheap and shitty writer to make something like that.
> it would need a absurd cheap and shitty writer to make something like that.
You called?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469817
She freely abuses meta knowledge, never narrates despite being the detective, never discusses her own physical location, shies away from discussing in hard numbers how many people are around, has a magical friend, is a blatant Mary Sue of a Great Detective parody, and magically seals rooms and conducts investigations with so much perfect accuracy she can state things in red.

If you replace all the shit Erika does with Beatrice and her demons, everyone would be saying "That shit didn't happen." They're just retarded because she's a magic DETECTIVE instead of a witch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469834
You can murder people and not be the culprit, broski.

Eva killed at the very least Battler in EP3, does that make her the culprit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469825
The word that is used is 人 for the red text about Erika in episode 5, it doesn't have any ambiguity.
Unlike the red text at the end of episode 6.

She definitely was there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469831
"That's stupid" is the best you can come up with? Way to be a blatant troll.

Beatrice's solution did not need to discuss the window. Period. The best you can manage is "Kanon doesn't exist until he's 'turned on?'" Bitch please. DID saves you from thinking, even though you have no idea what it is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469835
The same trick would need to be used over and over in almost all episodes, if ''Battler wrote EP6'' it doesnt mean he wrote the other ones.

>>4469831
SUPER CLOTHING CHANGING SHKANONTRICE. DISGUISING AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT AFTER RUNNING OVER THE WINDOW WHEN NOBODY WAS LOOKING.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469845
Then why did Erika have to discard her detective status in order to do it, genius?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469855
Seriously, read the episode before talking.
Beatrice used a trick to save Battler for the logical error.
It's a cheap trick, Battler even states it, but it works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469858
But Battler didn't write ep6. He wrote the game board in ep6. Tohya wrote ep6, except Tohya is really Hanyuu, except Hanyuu is really ryukishi, except ryukishi is really rifyu.

Umineko works the same way.

[Anonymous No.]

What is 4chan?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469872
>not actually paying any attention to his argument

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469872
It's so clear you haven't read a word that I'll just leave it at that. Shkanon's dead, if you won't listen to any possible assault on it let's just wait for ep7 and the mass bawwwwing as it turns out the solution required some thought and non-magical pseudopsych.

[Anonymous No.]

Erika doesn't exist is stupid because Battler could have erased her existence at the very start of EP6, which also fucks with Bernkastel.

Or even when his dumbass got caught in his own closed room, and the witches were mocking him from beyond the door. There's another opportunity to erase her, and shake up the entire game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469839
> never discusses her own physical location

She herself doesn't, but if "Erika" is a title, then the question of who Erika actually is still remains. Because someone with the name "Erika" was confirmed to exist in some fashion, and had a presence on the island.

# Before the family conference, Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa left the mansion and moved to the guesthouse.
# At 24:00, only Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa existed outside the mansion.
# From 1:00 AM to 3:00 AM, Erika, Nanjo, and Gohda spent their time in the lounge on the first floor of the guesthouse.
# Erika was with Nanjo the whole time until 3:00 AM.
# Both your seal and your red truth are perfect. Nanjo had the alibi of being with Erika until 3:00 AM. And he didn't leave his room after 3:00 AM until morning.
# It was impossible to reach the second floor of the guesthouse without passing through the lounge, and impossible to reach it at all without Erika, who was in the lounge, knowing about it.
# Eva's seal was of the same type as <Miss> Erika's. That is because this method of sealing was one that <Miss> Erika and Eva conceived of together after DINNER.
# All of Erika and Eva's seals were not tampered with in any way that hindered their ability to act as seals, such as being scraped off.
# There was never any work done on all of Erika and Eva's seals to damage the function of the seals, such as peeling them off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469873
I have a hard time accepting that she wrote anything anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469834
That rule is about the main culprit.
And Erika didn't exist before episode 5, tell me how she could become a "title" or a new "personality" just for episode 5 and 6.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469855
I concur. Shkannon is just a shitty way to stop thinking, because you only stop at the surface of what was written. You don't try to delve any deeper at all. Stop just looking at the Red text, and pay attention to the white text as well. At least "Erika doesn't exist' actually tries to read between the lines. It makes sense for Erika to be a type of "Witch"

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469888
Battler is incompetent in red, plus he loves the lolis. He ain't gonna erase one before he cops a feel bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469873
Don't forget that Hachijou is also Asumu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469887
ShKanon is more than alive.
You are just a delusional retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469899
Too bad it doesn't work since Erika's physical existence is proven times and times again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469902
ep7 mang, I'll be here to lick your tears. Without love they can't be seen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469902
>calling someone a delusional retard
>supporting Shkannon, hasn't said a single word to debunk his argument other than "no u"
Get out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469899
> Stop just looking at the Red text, and pay attention to the white text as well.
But the bulk of hints people consider are taken from white text. i.e. all the stuff about the relationship between Shannon and Kanon, as well as what's said during confrontations between Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469893
Did someone add a rule about not throwing in new fantasy pieces and I didn't notice? Nobody complained like this when Ronove and Virgilia showed up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469659
I definitely don't think Kumasawa is the mastermind. However, she is shady as hell. Almost never around, sneaks around almost as well as Kanon, and the one thing that's bothered me for so long: she has no one winged eagle. She is never brought up during rankings of the household, has no eagle, yet is apparently able to talk to Kinzo, at least in the past.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469916
Ronove and Virgilia's presences was never stated in RED, moron.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469918
We don't know that she doesn't have the Eagle. She could have it tattooed on some part of her body that is covered by clothing, if she does have it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469914
Regrettably, a lot of the ep6 white they've "taken" isn't actually there, but is part of fakespoilers. Much of it is real though.

However it also ignores a lot of the internal narrative Kanon provides in ep6. So yeah white is okay when it supports a theory but if it suggests otherwise well fuck it that shit ain't RED!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469914
see

>>4469681

Its easy to overthink

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469899
>At least "Erika doesn't exist' actually tries to read between the lines. It makes sense for Erika to be a type of "Witch"
But it doesn't, it's just as obscene as DID, the only reason you like it more is because it's relatively fresh.

I hope that the answer isn't Shkanontrice, but don't fool yourself, is Erika = imaginary really a satisfying answer? It's just as irritating, and quite an asspull.

[Anonymous No.]

Guys let me ask you a question. Even if Shkannon were proven true there are a lot of episodes where both Shannon and Kanon die. In that case are Shkanon just pawns for someone to use? Who is the real culprit then? Does the real culprit Kill anybody?

So who would you chose as the mastermind in this list if it's not Shannon or Kanon and the other people I'll exclude?

1. A fake Battler

2. Kyrie

3. Genji

4. George

5. Krauss

6. Natsuhi

7. Asumu

8. Jessica

9. Rosa

10 Nanjo

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469929
Jessica makes the most sense at this point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469900
I know you're just joking around, but that just doesn't cut it.

This isn't Bleach, Battler isn't Ichigo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469936
Also, Battler hates Erika and thinks she's a total bitch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469924
Where does this idea come from that Shkanon or Fake-Erika solves anything whatsoever? Neither one provides any hints except for a few tiny matters.

Shkanon explains why Battler never sees them together and Kanon's disappearing body. And the ep6 closed room if you can't read. That's fucking all. Anything it explains about -trice can be done identically by Kanontrice or Shannontrice without Shkanon.

Erika-Isn't-Real merely explains all the bullshit Erika pulls, and claims she's an EVA-Beatrice style mask for some real person doing the same thing. It doesn't explain HOW anyone got murdered or HOW any of the investigations happened.

NEITHER ONE IS THE SOLUTION TO UMINEKO. A SOLUTION HAS TO ANSWER THINGS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469854
"The 6 people died instantly!"
From ep3. It involved Shannon and Kanon.
And I can be wrong, but it was an 人.
In any case, it was not the same kanji that the one at the end of ep6.

Anyway, the red text in the end of dawn is in another context. If you count personality as people, it works. If you don't, Shkannon can not work neither.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469888
>Why doesn't Battler erase her at X time in the game?

LETS SEE. IT'S ONLY EPISODE 6. NO SOLUTIONS FOR AT LEAST ONE MORE EPISODE. GODDAMN MAN, STOP BEING SO DENSE.

NOBODY IS ERASED IN UMINEKO. EVER.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469845
We already went through this here:
>>4467057
Not necessarily true that she killed him, 3rd person, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469941
Dont forget that Battler isnt the kind of guy that would rely in trickery and cheap moves.

He would more likely want to defeat Erika in a fair fight rather than just eliminate her from the beggining, see his brawls with Dlanor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469912
I stated more than enough to debunk his retarded argument which stem from not having read the episode himself and just going from shit he heard.

The room where Shannon was wasn't a closed room.
Dlanor refused to talk about the windows.
Because doing it could cause another logical error.
Why would it?
Because Kanon saves Battler, not Shannon or anyone else.
Yet the only persons on the island who could save Battler are Shannon or the others since EVERYONE ELSE was in the cousin's room, dead, or ejected from the game (by Erika).
But Kanon does save Battler.

You can see it's not logical.
Except if you use Shkanon, which is why the whole thing doesn't provoke a logical error.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469929
Jessica has to know about Shkanon if that's the case, it's shitty writing otherwise, and just proves our bitching that Ryukishi is an awful writer.

Best friends with Shannon for a decade, been crushing on Kanon for a while too, it's impossible for a person not to realize something like that.

I'd go with her as the culprit, in this situation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469965
You don't know what a Logic Error is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469944
That's because we already know George did it. We're just arguing over the finer details. Like the 17 person count at the end of 6.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469944
Erika Illusion isn't supposed to be the big answer to anything. It's supposed to strip off a huge layer of noise so we can start talking what really happened in EP5 and EP6, which all of the Shkannon theorists have totally given up on.

[Anonymous No.]

What's interesting about Episode 6 is that the one who has their Executed status be blank in the post-Episode TIPS is not piece Erika but meta Erika.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469944
I meant the answer to EP6, particularly the closed room.

The best answers we have is multiple personalities that can be killed at will, for seemingly no reason, and Erika being a fake person, despite the red that runs in opposition to it, and requires mental gymnastics to get around? Brb, puking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469929
Kyrie, George, Rosa, Jessica (meh), Rudolf (?? Actually probably impossible), whoever true Battler is (son of Asumu). Any of those would work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469956
Ah, so the answer is, Ryukishi is a really bad, Stephanie Meyer level writer?

I see, glad we took care of that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469974
It's almost like we're back at the end of EP2 again, with everybody crying and giving up because they couldn't figure out the illusion rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469920
Kumasawa may have had the one-winged eagle insignia at some point, but for reasons unknown, deranked? She was trusted enough to take care of the child(ren) in Kuwadorian.
In EP2, when Beatrice's food was to be sent to her room by Gohda, he never once considered her as a servant carrying the wing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469986
Going in opposition to red text isn't too much of a problem, since red text is pretty easy to tiptoe around, and since it's meant to be deceptive in nature: ie saying I have two apples in red when you have 3 or more apples.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469999
Except that at that time people were less conceited and stupid

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469972
You are the one who doesn't.
A logical error is simply that, something that shouldn't happen.
Kanon saving Battler shouldn't happen, but it does happen without causing a logical error.
Therefore it's logical.

The only ones on the island that could save Battler are those in the room with Shannon, it was proved times and times again.
Kanon should be in the EVERYONE ELSE ROOM.
So how can he save Battler?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470015
Hideyoshi is actually Kanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469965
Gaap: It is possible for Kanon to have rescued Battler. After Erika placed her seals, he left through the window, switched places with Battler in the guest room, set the chain lock, and hid in the closet.

Dlanor: That is impossible. The seals on the window were also intact. Naturally, I am referring to the time of the logic error.

Gaap: That seal you were talking about was the one on “Kanon’s” cousins’ room, wasn’t it? So what about the window in the neighboring room? Your statement that it was impossible only applied to the possibility of Kanon rescuing Battler. The possibility of it being someone from the neighboring room is still alive…!

Gertrude: Please know that the use of blue truths claiming that the seal on the neighboring room’s window was not intact at the time of the logic error has been forbidden.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470015
Kinzo-Kanon

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470011
That's my point. She is almost never considered for anything. What is her purpose? She's so rarely in the story that I don't even know what to think about her. All I know is that she and Nanjo get the same two stakes in Ep 1 and 2, Envy and Sloth respectively.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469994
As awesome as I think it would be for Kyrie to be the culprit, Episode 1's first twilight makes that impossible, since Battler sees her corpse in the shed, which is guaranteed, and also sees the shed closed and locked, where it remains undisturbed. This level of reasoning is possible for anonymous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469790
That's the only thing you have against ShKanon?
Something that can be read in a completely that you did?

The question is WHY would Dlanor refuses to talk about the windows and why did they leave that room open.
You went too fast with your correlation, for me it's more evidences that ShKanon is true.

Turn the chessboard over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470015
That is not a Logic Error (capital letters relevant).

A Logic Error is when the GM restricts the situation in-game with red to the point that he or she does not have a solution which is actually explicable through human action. If the GM cannot be shown to have a solution, a Logic Error occurs and the game ends. It's basically calling out the GM for cheating by denying everything with red even though he/she has no idea what could actually have explained it.

A solution to a Logic Error CAN exist; Beatrice found one to Battler's BEFORE the prohibition on talking about the window seal was lifted. That means she thought of a possibility Battler didn't think of, not that a solution magically conjured itself from thin air.

A Logic Error has nothing to do with impossibility and everything to do with the GM bullshitting his way into a corner, which Battler let happen to himself.

As to Kanon, Kanon wasn't in the "everyone else" room. He doesn't count as "everyone else" somehow. BOTH Shkanon and every other theory need this, except Shkanon is denied by Dlanor's prohibition.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469999
The funny thing about what we currently know about the illusion rules is that, if you assume that Battler's POV actually is trustworthy at all times in the first four Episodes, then Battler really did see someone else besides Kinzo in Kinzo's study at the end of Episode 2. If you notice, the times when Kinzo speaks then are all narrated from a third-person POV. Battler does not narrate those parts, despite being present in the room and narrating other bits of the scene. Of course, that then brings up the question of what the "golden butterflies" Battler saw at that time really were.


And, ...... there was a sofa like a reception chair in front of the study desk, .........where I could see Grandfather's back.　

There was someone on the side opposite from Grandfather.
...It was a shadow, so I couldn't see it well....
"...... Master. I brought Battler-sama."

"............Battler, is it? I'm busy thinking now... Be silent for a while......"
Kinzo declared that unhappily, his back still turned

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470027
That's more hints toward ShKanon you know.
Why would they forbid to talk about the windows of that room?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470045
>implying that Dlanor would try to keep Erika or Battler from the truth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470054
It doesn't matter (but it could be that the real culprit escaped through it). The prohibition would have caused a second Logic Error had Beato's solution relied on it. THE PERSON WHO WROTE THE EPISODE SAID SO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470046
Dlanor's prohibition was only about refusing to red text the windows of the neighbor's room.
Basically it's more hint toward ShKanon, she needed to leave that room open for some reason.

Honestly I don't see where you get your IT KILLS SHKANON from this, if anything it reinforces it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470068
Are you now arguing with AuAu, who claims to have written Dawn, as to what the prohibition means? I think you're gonna lose this one dude.

[Anonymous No.]

Anyway, if you people want to keep talking, apparently this thread is now on auto-sage. When does that usually happen? 300 posts?

[Anonymous No.]

shkannon is dead. long live shkannon

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470076
You are the one who doesn't get what she meant.

What she meant is that Kanon saving Battler shouldn't involves the neighbor's room because Kanon shouldn't exist there.
Because of that EVERYONE ELSE red text.
So saying that Kanon came from there would cause a logical error.
And closing that room completely would also cause another logical error, simply because it would fix everyone position and it would be impossible for Kanon to save Battler.
Yet Kanon did save Battler.
That's why that room needed to stay open.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470068
And if you believe the white text, how do you explain that Kanon-personality is supposed to be dead at this point of the story, in the room where Jessica, etc, are?
Of course, if it needs to be interpreted, it can also be anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470110
You still don't know what a Logic Error is. Oh well, this thread's over, there'll be more for you to troll soon~

[Anonymous No.]

>>4469929
>>4469935
Sorry moon chan, but George kun
is obviously the best culprit

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470110
The point is that when the statement was made, Kanon was not "active". So he is not included in the "everybody else". Yeah, I agree, it's pretty dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470133
I think the majority agrees that shkannon is a terrible theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470114
I understand what the logical error is.
They couldn't talk about the windows simply because talking about it would force Battler to reveal the truth about ShKanon.

Because of that everyone else red text.
Basically:
Windows is closed by red text, BIG LOGICAL ERROR, Battler has to explain how Kanon could save him even though he is supposed to be in the cousin's room, can't happen Battler loses.

Windows is left open: Battler has to explain how how Kanon could save him even though he shouldn't exist in this room.
ShKanon is revealed, Erika wins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470132
Second scene, Kumasawa isn't mentioned.
Therefore, she could be ordered by Krauss or Natsuhi. Or she is somehow already dead

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470153
YES, DLANOR'S PROHIBITION ON THE WINDOWS IS TOTALLY THERE TO SAVE BATTLER'S FINELY CHISELED ASS. YES.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470042
This applies to Moon-chan, only slightly different. EP 1 and 3 she is always with Battler. Even if you claim in EP 2 that she might have been alive (lol corpse in red and then it isn't) insulin doesn't work, because you'll pretty much making her a vegetable. EP 4 works because she has no real alibi.

You can claim she's the mastermind, but how could she give orders if Battler is always around her? Honestly the idea that the mastermind doesn't actually commit murders themselves annoys me, because that feels more like a pseudo Takano solution than anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470169
Dlanor doesn't the truth.
Knowing that Erika failed to seal the windows, she could have wanted to help her that way.
But she ended up helping Battler unwillingly.

It's a question of plausibility.
In the end, there is one truth, Battler was saved by Kanon
Kanon shouldn't logically exist there.
The only ones who could save Battler are those of the neighbor's room.

That's all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470042
Kyrie might have faked it with makeup. The shed is pretty dark after all and Nanjo was the only one who really took a good look at everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470176
>Even if you claim in EP 2 that she might have been alive (lol corpse in red and then it isn't) insulin doesn't work, because you'll pretty much making her a vegetable.
Logically speaking, you are absolutely right.

But, interestingly enough, in EP6, Erika makes an argument involving insulin, and Dlanor agrees that it is possible. Take from that what you will.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470192
That's the thing, even if she was alive, and not a corpse, she would be locked in the shed with no way out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470132
Y'know what's funny there? Because Kinzo was already dead, why would Krauss and Natsuhi be so suspicious about the servants with the one-winged eagle? For that matter, those servants would be the ones they'd have to trust the most, because having access to Kinzo's study, they would know that Kinzo was dead and thus had to be trusted to keep that a secret.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470176
Actually the fact that different people die in different orders every time kinda goes against the idea of one single mastermind that schemed all the murders and everything is on accord to one plan.

If the mastermind ordered whoever is killing everyone to ''kill the isolated people'' or ''kill the isolated people but xxx and xx'' then it logically makes more sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470196

But Jessica cannot be the culprit, since Jessica was incapable of killing Nanjo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470209
The person who killed Nanjo is not necessarily the culprit for all Episodes. In all likelihood, Kyrie was only the culprit for Episode 3.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470203
Yep, pretty much. Which is something you have to remember when going back through the previous episodes. They were their most trusted confidants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470196
It's only possible because the insulin doesn't technically kill anyone, it just puts them in a coma.

But without medical attention (and I don't mean a doctor with a kit, but more like emergency room hospital attention) the person can easily die.

Possibility: When they were in the room Jessica wasn't dead yet, she was dying. But at some point she died from the blood loss and the fake that there is a stake in her back. She was unconscious and since Nanjo is the one who examined her then he could have left her to die. He did so with the people in EP 3 that had to be faking in order to kill him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470207
Nope. There are some people who are "killed" and then not placed in a locked room situation, or instantly proclaimed dead in red. It is entirely possible for those few people to be the culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470209
Depends on what we mean by culprit.

EP3 implied that there was actually some pushback by at least one person, killing people while not being the original mastermind.

I think that whoever is setting up the boiler room to explode on the second day is the culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470216
>fake
*fact

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470209
Not necessarily, someone else could have been alive and by the order of Jessica(or not), him or her killed Nanjo and then something happened and this person died.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470191
Or maybe, the Kinzo loophole. That's all I see for now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470225
Someone else was definitely alive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470225
Jessica was blind and this is pretty much supported in red. And why the heck would someone like Kyrie, who has a hole in her stomach, decide to take orders from Jessica.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470225
Eva-Beatrice said in red that Jessica has no relation to Nanjo's death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470241
If for example Hideyoshi was a accomplice since the beggining there's no problem.

Or if Doubletrice is true it fits as well.

I dont see the problem with this scene.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470203

I was thinking the same thing. I think you can explain the reason Krauss was suspicious as being because the servants might have been able to make the letters in that episode or maybe they stole Kinzo's ring. For that matter Krauss is a in a really bad financial situation I mean he was spending money on fake moon travel scams. So he's putting everyone in debt. It wouldn't be too farfetched to say that the servants are betting horses. In other words they don't like Krauss, but maybe the like the cousins enough to like having them as the head.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470245
''her body had no relation to nanjo's death''

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470241
Maybe she wasn't even aware that Jessica was alive, or didn't know she was the culprit, just that Nanjo was involved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470257
>Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder
>She was not involved with Nanjo's murder
>The culprit who killed Nanjo was neither Battler nor Eva nor Jessica
>Jessica's eyes were completely blocked, and murder was impossible for her

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470269
No actions caused by Jessica's body had any relation to or influence on the murder of Nanjo

Its useless to discuss about it. Even if she didnt ordered ''SHOT HIM'' it could had been planned from the start.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470280
See the second statement.
>She was not involved with Nanjo's murder

This means she wasn't involved in any way with Nanjo dying.

[Anonymous No.]

This is why I like the George as the culprit. He could set up the safe deposit boxes, and he's placed outside of the guest house after Kyrie, Hideyoshi, and Rudolf were murdered. And it would be easy for him to kill Natsuhi and Krauss, relock the window he jumps out of, and then "die" by Shannon, only to come back and kill Nanjo. He could have been wounded by Krauss as well, leading to his death.

You can also explain where Eva went during the second twilight during the time Hideyoshi was smoking. George took her out to the rose garden while Rosa and Maria were there, and then killed them. The reason why Eva knows they were killed is because she was there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470286
Are you really wasting your time with me discussing semantics of a useless scene?

If the order was ''kill everyone'' she could have not meant to kill Nanjo but he was killed anyway when her accomplice saw him.

It could have been someone else not related to her plan, but her still being the mastermind/culprit whatever.

More importantly than that, Eva beatrice never says that Jessica doesnt have another personality or that she isnt the culprit, just that she's not the one that killed Nanjo. Also its never said in red that she was REALLY blind, just that her eyes were blocked.

There's enough leeway for anything

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470310
And are you seriously arguing that Jessica is behind Nanjo's murder in some way, despite every red text Eva-Beatrice stated about the murder denying that, along with Eva and Battler being involved.

I know you love your Moon-chan, but it's pretty much impossible with all the red text given that Jessica is involved with Nanjo dying in any way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470308
Except for the whole "he's always around Battler when the murders happen thing".

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470331
Which doesnt deny shit.

To be honest the idea that the culprit/mastermind would be around Battler all the time makes sense as its needed for the letters and shit in the first episodes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470327
I don't understand why Moonbros are even trying to include her in that, EP3 is very clearly a NOT AS PLANNED situation.

Kyrie's TIPS imply her wound was not instantly fatal, perhaps she found the scheme going on, or at least a part of it, and tried to dig deeper. She obviously failed, and was nearing death, so she perhaps went to find Battler, or simply stop the people she knew was involved.

She ran into Nanjo, and took him out, Jessica's plan was already in ruins by then, so she wasn't involved in his death at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470345
The mastermind not killing anyone themselves feels like a Takano explanation. Its cheap.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470191
I don't think you understand. Because Beatrice had to have had a solution in the period where talking about the windows is prohibited, then her solution must not involve the windows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470350
>>Implying that Takano doesnt kill people

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470361
She only kills Rika. Only time she killed anyone else besides her was in Minagoroshi-hen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470370
Where's the red saying that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470375
oh u

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470350

The only person Takano kills is Tomitake. and she has her boys kill everybody else so she's still the culprit. The mastermind CAN kill people, but since he's the mastermind he can chose not to and have his furniture do it. A king peice can check a pawn, but that doesn't make it a good idea because if you use your king for that than you can't castle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470350
You wanted to Takano murder a entire village with her own hands?

She's not Rosa.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470390
but in this case with red text, I just feel like that type of solution feels cheap.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470414
Its like your opinion man, but its most likely a fact that there are accomplices and most of the killings are done by them

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470414

Well in this case with the red text a lot of people would be cheap culprits. Kyrie is killed in the first twilight for two episodes if she were the culprit Ryukishi would have to go into a longass explanation for why she can be dead (or fake death) and still be the mastermind in all the episodes. Anyway the red text doesn't give people alibis like that. Somebody has to be the mastermind and that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be a monster who kills everyone. The red text doesn't deny that the mastermind uses people to murder other people.

[Anonymous No.]

new thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4470497
It'll have to be new OP, as I'm not going to be around.

I really do hope you guys get some new theories around, though. I'll try to figure out my theory for Episode 3 sometime soon, with no servants and no new culprits before Eva finds the gold (no counter culprit).