Fanon vs Canon

[Anonymous No.]

Things that surprised you about how canon characters actually are?
>Marisa
Never actually says “Ze”. Is not really “tomboyish”, gets her ass kicked a lot.
>Patchouli and Koakuma
Koakuma is nonexistent and does not give a shit.
Patchouli hates almost everyone.
>Flandre
Is an actual edgelord who does not have a cute side
>Suika
Is a hyperedgelord and her cute side is nonexistent (only for manipulation)
>Alice
Does not give a shit about anyone and is cold to others.
>Aya
Is even more jewish about trickery and is very aggressive, close to Yukari’s level of smugness

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
i don't really give a shit about the canonicity most of the time, as long as it's cute and not TOO out of character, i like it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557798
That makes (You) a secondary

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557814
not my issue

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557798
Damn he fucking got you dude!

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Never actually says “Ze”
Secondary?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557858
Why you niggas always do this cheering nonsense. That legit has been happening in all my threads. Hivemind I tell ya
>>44557861
Yes and no

[Anonymous No.]

I enjoy them all the same. They're all separate works so to speak and pretty self contained. Cutesokyo, Grimsokyo, Lewdsokyo, canon, fanon, headcanon; nobody said you had to be in one camp or another. Even within canon there's variation and contradiction, especially between the different printworks, just look at Reimu. People give Zounose shit for being inconsistent (see seikibanki) but they're ultimately just doujins and some of them exist because "I dunno I felt like drawing gore or a comedy today."
At the end of the day, it's all fuel for the Gensokyo in your head.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Sakuya
In fanon: le super smart, cunning, serious, polite, elegant maid

In canon: a dumbass airhead retard, sometimes also a mean bitch for literally no reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557941
I don’t recall her being an airhead like most. She is still elegant when she takes care of Reimilia and knows her shit about serving

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557961
She opened a window while in a rocket ship travelling through the void for fresh air

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
Sekibanki being not actually part of Grassroots. That makes her a standalone character with no association which is the basis of how 2hu character will fade into obscurity and become non-character because of lack of interaction, and it'd had happened if not for the misconception of Kage-Seki-Waka trio.
However, I still latch on the hope that Banki will interact with the Grassroots sometime in canon, whether in the next Akyuu Chronicle or the manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557941
There's definitely very few fanwork that shows how much she likes to screw with people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558028
But she opened it when they were still in Earth’s atmosphere

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558028
How was she supposed to know windows shouldn't be opened while in space?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558028
There's no basic education in Gensokyo and I doubt Remi or Patchy taught her about space. Sakuya is still an excellent maid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
Meiling/Sakuya relationship is amicable at best, professional at worst. Nothing like the "sleep and gets knife'd" shit you see in fanworks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
Don't forget Yukari downright mistreating Ran. Cirno having zero relation with Wriggle, Mystia, or Rumia. Reimu not actually being all that poor or starving. Remilia being way more perspective and polite. And a large part of the cast most likely being a serial killer.

>>44558308
Ironically the actual "Dislike" relationship is Patchouli and Sakuya. Both of which have little more than open content for each other.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558400
>Don't forget Yukari downright mistreating Ran.
This isn't much a surprise given both canon and fanon characterization. At her best she's just negligent and lazy. Her response when she found out Ran got her ass kicked in PCB was mild surprise before she back to bed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557961
She bought a broken tea set, because she thought "buy a tea set like this broken one" means it needs to be broken. Remi had to explain why this is stupid to her like to a child.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558045
Didn't who's who show that banki is a member? Also it's stated that most docile and weak youkai are a part of it, so it's reasonable to assume that kogasa and other youkai are as well apart of it

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558400
>Cirno having zero relation with Wriggle, Mystia, or Rumia
Rumia is a hard maybe since they share a common area in Eosd
>Reimu not actually being all that poor or starving
Reimu is 100% poor, in EoSD as well she talks to patchy and states that basically no one comes over and donates to her shrine

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>>Marisa
>Never actually says “Ze”
Huh?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Things that surprised you about how canon characters
I can't impregnate them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558400
>Don't forget Yukari downright mistreating Ran
It's genuinely kind of funny how fanon just sort of ignores the fact Yukari doesn't see Ran as a person, and beats the shit out of her at the first sign of disobedience but they both kind of accept it as just the way things work because they both internalised somehow that Ran is a tool and tools ought to be beaten if they don't do what you want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Never actually says “Ze”.
What the hell are you talking about? Just because it's not translated most of the time due to it making little sense in English doesn't mean Marisa hasn't been using her stolen speech quirk since EoSD.
>>44558400
>Cirno having zero relation with Wriggle, Mystia, or Rumia.
Them being used as a quartet has always been an annoyance to me, especially since Cirno is usually made out to be the dumbest one when she actually has the best mental feats out of the four of them.
Plus, Cirno is funnier when she's paired up with just Rumia to make them a duo of knuckleheads like a buddy movie.
>>44558684
>Rumia is a hard maybe since they share a common area in Eosd
Rumia is found "behind the shrine" in Scarlet Devil, rather than at the Misty Lake. Akyuu's book also establishes her as having no known place of activity, and she spends her days just flying around randomly. She seems to know Cirno, but they're definitely not neighbors or anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558748
Well Ran IS basically just an AGI and as such deserves to be beaten when it doesn't work properly. Pain is a very basic, extremely old response to external stimuli. It works wonders for teaching.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558866
Eh, the parasite Ran thing has always been fanon. And the latest game heavily implies there was no real difference between shikigami-Ran and kitsune-Ran, except that shikigami-Ran has the last name Yakumo now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558870
100% canon
>While she employs several shikigami, the one she makes the most use of is Ran Yakumo. Be careful though: Ran Yakumo is strictly the shikigami, and the nine-tailed fox youkai she is possessing is an entirely different being. However, since the original fox never shows on the surface at all, there's no problem in thinking of Ran Yakumo as a nine-tailed fox.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558870
That's what's always been funny about Ran. You have retards projecting grimderp personality death on her and then you have ZUN just not giving a fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558877
Shit retcon.
ZUN had it right in PCB

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558913
The possession part is true. The personality death part isn't. Cutesokyo faggots are the retards 90% of the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558974
Possession is done by Yukari's commands, not some third entity. Grimsokyo fags are equally retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558983
Shikigami both IRL and in Touhou are very explicitly their own entities possessing objects/creatures. Yukari's commands are necessary for Ran to function as Ran but there must absolutely be a 3rd entity. Its worth learning about the fine details before arguing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558987
Eh, ZUN's compared shikigami to programs before. I wouldn't say running Calculator in your brain necessarily means your entire identity changes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558996
They are comparable to computer programs but it doesn't literally mean that they are. All Yukari means by that is that the Shikigami entities are very precise/literal and need to be trained in a manner similar to programming in order to work to their fullest extent.
All this aside, ZUN does put some very obviously dark shit in his games. Okina has literal human child slaves brainwashed by magic. Maybe he'll come up with some explanation in the future about them being orphans and wanting to become magicians or some shit under Okina but for now its nothing more than evil.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558465
It's not a surprise, but still weird how often it is ignored.

>>44558684
>Rumia is a hard maybe since they share a common area in Eosd
Doesn't Rumia wander like crazy?

>Reimu is 100% poor
She never actually seems lacking for much of anything. Certainly not food.

>>44558856
>Them being used as a quartet has always been an annoyance
I wouldn't mind if they weren't so different. Wriggle is actually a nice girl trying to make insects more popular. Mystia is a psychotic serial killer and con artist that acts more like a moody teenager than a child. Cirno is a childish dumbass, but even she seems intelligent compared to Rumia who borders on being non sapient. She's also way more willing to harm humans, seemingly, than Cirno.

>Plus, Cirno is funnier when she's paired up with just Rumia to make them a duo of knuckleheads like a buddy movie.
That's fair though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558987
While you are right that shikigami can possess animals and people, this isn't the case with Ran. Re-read her PCB profile >>44558963 :
>Her true form is a fox-turned youkai.
That is, she is a summoned as a bake-gitsune, because that is what she is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559020
>Maybe he'll come up with some explanation in the future about them being orphans and wanting to become magicians or some shit under Okina but for now its nothing more than evil.
To be fair, it's not like they get a raw deal out of it. Certainly beats being a human villager.

As for Ran, It's hard to if it's death of personality mostly because we don't know what her personality was before she became a Shikigami. Ran does seem to have a personality though, believe it or not. So, clearly, she's not just a mindless robot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558665
it did, but only in the normal part of the article which ZUN didn't write
ZUN's comments are the only canon part of the who's who books
I liked the way people did take that, though, where banki isn't part of the network, but kagerou and wakasagihime really, really want her to be and basically consider her a member already

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>patchouli
I fucking love canon patchouli, every time she appears she basically controls the conversation even against a mind reader, she always knows something that advances the plot and she never seems particularly confused
and even then, there's still some goofy stuff that happens with her, like that chapter of the fairy manga where a pile of books fell on her and she got trapped under them in the library for days while everyone came and raided the library, which made her actually leave to get them back where she dashed the hope of maripatchy fags everywhere by showing nothing but contempt for marisa

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559157
Man, it's so much better when Touhous are open jerks to each others' faces.

[Anonymous No.]

Do you guys like the chill Aya in games or her being a genuine calculative bastard in the mangas knowing she'll get away with it? Also I really love how every single one of her game omakes stressed out how she is a very strong, one of the top class youkais but just not someone who prefer picking fights

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559315
I like Aya as a bit of a mixture. Aya should be powerful and dangerous and also intelligent when she wants to be, but also has a big gaping flaw that she puts big scoops ahead of everything but the most obvious challenges to the system she personally benefits from. So when shenanigans are going on, she should seem funny and nonsensical because her priorities in it are very badly skewed, but when things are calm her kunnin' side starts showing.
Also I'm pro anything that gives me more Orin bondage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559024
>Wriggle is actually a nice girl trying to make insects more popular.
Wriggle wanted Sakuya to hand Remilia over to her. She's still a youkai and not a good person, even if she isn't all that threatening most of the time.
Cirno is the only one of the four who isn't deliberately a threat to humans.
Wriggle is really stupid, though. Her ability to retain information is almost zero. Mystia is barely literate, and Rumia is probably smarter than those two, since she's at least literate and self-aware, but her lack of any ambition means that it doesn't really matter much.
Cirno and other fairies though know of a lot of things, but their knowledge tends to be fragmented and they only half-heartedly try to understand it. They're in a unique position where they're simultaneously pretty dumb but also clearly could be clever if they ever bothered to apply themselves instead of just playing around. They're actually pretty interesting as characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Never actually says “Ze”
That's just you headcanon, dude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559385
mystia might be more literate than she seems, because she was able to read the book in OSP
she is a bird brain though, so she forgets things pretty easily

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559385
>Wriggle wanted Sakuya to hand Remilia over to her.
I'm not sure what's so bad about that.
Also, good youkai does exist, like Kogasa and Wakasagihime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559024
>She never actually seems lacking for much of anything. Certainly not food.
Reimu seems to be more a case where she has enough to stay afloat but doesn't have a lot of money to spend on anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559544
it's more like she goes through periods of major profit and then spends months with little to no visitors
she's probably always got enough money to keep her food stocked, but she's lazy and can't be bothered to cook most of the time, so she mostly lives off food that other people make or bring her
I'm not sure there's actually all that many references to reimu being poor that can't be attributed to her being stingy instead, like her not wanting to pay kogasa for the needles she made, or running from kosuzu because she owes a bunch of late fees

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559024
I think most people missed that she don't get much donations because she don't beg for it as hard as Sanae or Byakuren, because she already receive payments from doing exorcism, which the other shrines/temples don't do, on top of the few moments where she actually hit the fortune when her get rich schemes work sometimes although only temporarily

[Anonymous No.]

>canon
It's kinda funny that Dai's relationship with Cirno is a schrodinger canon lmao
While their relationship is so fucking popular in fanon and they've been shown together in a lot of official manga as cameo, there hasn't been any explicit confirmation of their relationship by the big Z himself

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Marisa
>Never actually says “Ze”.
How the fuck did this retarded thread get 50 replies?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44561719
Some replies already called him out on it, and the others just continue on being on topic.
Also while on the topic of catchphrase; Patchouli uses "mukyu" for the grand total of ONCE. Fanworks run around the field and then some with that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44561685
Dai herself exists in a state of nebulous canonicity, yeah. She's interesting to discuss though because unlike Koakuma there is at least some evidence to point towards Dai being a unique fairy rather than a generic mook design. It almost feels like ZUN is teasing us about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559385
>Wriggle wanted Sakuya to hand Remilia over to her.
Is Wriggle not able to recognize Remilia as a youkai that's far stronger than herself? Remilia has wings, so it's not like Wriggle would think she's a harmless human little girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559517
Kidnapping is bad, anon.
>>44562890
Wriggle probably is dumb enough to not realize Remilia is a vampire. She's also dumb enough to pick a fight with Yukari. She's just a weak youkai who picks on little girls because she thinks she can take those.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Patchouli hates almost everyone.
Do people depict her differently?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563115
Yeah, depicted as being cute-ish and fun. When she is actually 100% serious all the time to the point of autism, and absolutely despises Marisa

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563139
Autism moe.
She's so serious that you can't take her seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563115
patchouli talking about marisa in fanon: mari-chan nooooo don't steal my books mukyu~
patchouli talking about marisa in canon:

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563139
>Yeah, depicted as being cute-ish and fun
I have never seen this. Got an example? In the fangames I've played she's about the same as canon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563158
In Niji Sousaku (fanime), she is depicted friendly’ish and cutesy

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558866
Unironically yes. My father used to do this to me, and i've developed an excellent sense of responsability.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559042
more like bakagitsune (笑)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563195
You are on the jay anon. That is all

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563233
Hey, i may be jobless, but i still do lots of things..

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563249
Don't you start lying as well now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
Yuyuko being reduced to a dumb glutton pisses me off. She is actually one of the smarter characters in Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563255
I'm 150% serious, anon. Please believe me. I can't prove it, but i'm typing from the heart.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563157
But she does help Marisa in touhou 11, so its probally banter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563276
What happens if you type from your penis instead

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563274
she's not dumb, but she is absolutely a glutton

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563325
vv bhisj kt

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563274
I think it's because she >merely pretending's a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563321
mistress wish
purisu andusutandu

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563274
Excessive sugar consumption is actually one of the things in life that decreases intelligence, so her eating herself into retardation isn't out of the question.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44562890
Prolly thinks she's a bat youkai or something

[Anonymous No.]

>>44563321
>help Marisa in touhou 11
Literally all the youkais communicating with them in SA used them to explore Underworld because they don't want to go there themselves despite being strong themselves.
Also canon Nitori:

[Anonymous No.]

I feel like a lot of people forget Kagerou is a WEREwolf with how little it appears in fanworks.
Keine's were-hakutaku got more attention, come on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565495
people also seem to forget that she doesn't come out ON THE FULL MOON because she gets hairy
I've seen some people draw her as hairy the whole time as if that's her natural state

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565495
Keine has been seen in both her human and were-hakutaku. We just see Kagerou as part wolf so that's what people draw.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557941
Peak Sakuya is flawlessly dignified and a retard at the same time. I'm talking throwing clothes into a tornado because they needed to be aired out and doing so with seriousness, elegance and certainty.

[Anonymous No.]

Byakuren being unironically a fraud, a hothead and stupid is very funny to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559179
Canon isn't Cutesokyo nor is it Grimsokyo, it's Jerksokyo.
If someone were to be spirited away, 2hus would not care or try to scam you.
PEAK fiction desu

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565595
What about a mix of Cute and Jerksokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565595
well if you were spirited away, you would be fair game for food, since yukari talks about spiriting away outsiders in the same conversation that she vaguely says that gnesokyo is getting food for youkai from somewhere
if you made it to the village, though? youkai would probably prank the hell out of you and maybe threaten you as if they were going to kill you, but they wouldn't do it

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565636
Name one(1) cute character. NOW!

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565433
Man. One can never trust these 2hoes...

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565650
All (singular)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565695
Even him?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565595
>If someone were to be spirited away, 2hus would not care or try to scam you.
Yeah, they'd just mock you with a smug look on their faces.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565710
Did nothing wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565736
Gospel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565647
>if you made it to the village, though? youkai would probably prank the hell out of you and maybe threaten you as if they were going to kill you, but they wouldn't do it
This is kinda wrong. Villagers are as much as food to the youkais as the outsiders. The difference is they know very well how to avoid danger so villagers being eaten is a very rare case. Otherwise villagers and Reimu wouldn't care to take extreme precautions against youkais such as:
- Reimu escorting the villagers back after one hundred ghost story festival ended very late at night
- Reimu allowing Sanyo to have a gambling den in the village so that the gambling addict who often go to the mountain stops going to the mountain
- Akyuu explicitly tell in her book which youkais are friendly and which are to be avoided at all cost
- Akyuu requested Aya to be her bodyguard and escort her to Hakurei shrine when she wished to go there at night because she knows its dangerous
- Keine being super paranoid towards the protags because they all have a youkai partner and didn't trust them to the point that she wiped out the village from existence to protect the village

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565730
This one post, right here. It smells fishy... I've got a feeling he isn't trying to present a hypothesis as to the nature of Gensokyo, but rather show perverted, lewd desire!

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565751
>Akyuu explicitly tell in her book which youkais are friendly and which are to be avoided at all cost
Akyuu is also a paid shill to maintain the "Humans VS Youkai" Narrative. Overall, there are plenty of youkai that are seriously dangerous, whether to villagers or outsiders, but the majority of them are either non-characters, or in Former Hell and generally prefer to stay there. Villager or Outsider, it's not too terribly difficult to not get killed provided you aren't a dumbass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565754
This Reimu unironically scares me, wtf

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565775
>provided you aren't a dumbass
If trespassing tengu territory just to satisfy your gambling addiction isn't dumb I don't know what is

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565803
I only trespass on Tengu territory to satisfy my reverse rape addiction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565835
The fastest women in Gensokyo are the worst women for that kind of fetish.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565842
Explain how getting the fastest sex in the world is bad, I'll wait

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565850
She'll be done long before you can be and already gone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565751
I think most youkai respect the rules because breaking them means becoming a target for extermination. In some cases even other youkai would punish the rule breakers (Mamizou and that newborn youkai for example). So the only ones who could realistically attack the villagers must be either non sapient (dont understand the rules) or very powerful (don't give a fuck). But there aren't that many powerful ones who would go out of their way to specifically target some random villagers.
In any case I think that wild animals would be more dangerous to the villagers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565855
Well, domination loss when she finishes 5 minutes in is fine too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565754
What?
I said that because the girls in Gensokyo are always smug, and they're fond of banter.
What led you to believe I had dirty thoughts while typing that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565888
youkai not so smug after getting raped

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565860
>breaking them means becoming a target for extermination
Nah, Rumia is a well known man eater and she still roam free until today, as well as other dangerous but low tier youkais.
>Mamizou and that newborn youkai for example
Because it happens INSIDE the village, and the newbie causing ruckus gets unwanted attention because he is a retard. Mami herself is a rule breaker when she kidnapped a villager to threatened Miyoi before. The only difference is Mami is smart enough to not attract attention and cover her tracks, like every other high ranking youkais who occasionally breaks the rules. The geidontei gang establishing a youkai hangout den in Miyoi's place is already rule breaking even, it's just fortunate that Reimu hasn't sniff them out yet and Aya prefer having a place to hang out than getting a scoop about it
>>44565855
She'll regret that

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565947
>Rumia is a well known man eater and she still roam free until today
Tbf I don't think she had that kind of meal in a really long time, gal too incompetent to hunt properly

[Anonymous No.]

>>44566027
I doubt she's ever eaten someone in all honesty. She's stupid enough that even a very slow person could probably outsmart her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44566038
She's probably killed children, elders, and cripples, but that, I assume, would be the extent of it given her sheer inability to realize how disadvantageous the way she uses her Ability is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44566027
That's what I'm talking about. They know hazardous ones like Rumia exists, they just don't care because the only way you can expose yourself to them is legit being really stupid like going outside the village at night

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565850
Your brain wouldn't even registered it and it makes youre nutted out of nowhere

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557798
true colors of a cutesokyofag

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565751
a lot of the youkai in the series don't specifically need to survive off human flesh as much of human emotions or belief, right? it'd make more sense to terrify some dude from the village and let him go since you could come back for seconds then

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Alice
>Does not give a shit about anyone and is cold to others.
i'm pretty sure she's just mentally ill and has schizophrenia, she doesnt talk to dolls because she thinks its cute or fun, she does it because she's insane and has nobody to talk to

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574080
I don't know if it's a lot, but they do exists like Kogasa. The problem is you assume they think all this logical shit when they're really just beasts that happens to speak human language and look humanoid. Simple youkais probably simply see human=food, just like when Nemuno in HSiFS just attacked for no reason just because you crossed her territory

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574346
>no reason
>because you crossed her territory
That doesn't sound like "no reason" to me. Even humans can be a bit territorial.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574346
Youkai, at least the sapient ones do have cultures, political opinions, have internal strife, and mental issues. Eirin specifically sells more spiritual and mental medicine due to the relatively high demand.
That said there are off-screen feral Youkai, but I think at least 90% of the Youkai we see on screen wouldn't attack unprovoked.

>Nemuno in HSiFS just attacked for no reason just because you crossed her territory
That's not really no reason, humans and animals do it all the time, it's called holding and protecting a territory.

[Anonymous No.]

About fanon, I thought about clarifying a common exaggeration - "absolutely all youkai are physically stronger than humans". If you know your mythology you know it's not true, but I've seen enough fanstuff that claimed Kogasa of all people is stronger than human for this to bother me.
So here's a tierlist of every nonhuman. Feel free to correct me. I've decided not to bother with spirits/gods, I think their metaphysics disqualify them. Also I'm not sure how influenced this should be by fighting games, and I know nothing about newhus.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>patchouli hates almost everyone
more reason that patchouli is my favorite character

[Anonymous No.]

>>44575206
Only character that's clear-headed enough to recognize there's not a single decent person in Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

The most surprising one for me was ZUN stating in an official interview that Sakuya was taller than Yuyuko and Ran, despite the fanart it contradicts many of the delusions that secondaries have, I kinda wish he'd step up and make an official touhou height chart nowadays to rock the fandom

[Anonymous No.]

>>44575243
Gorillions of fanarts would be annihilated, all in a single instant.. terrifying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>>Alice
>Does not give a shit about anyone and is cold to others.
Wasn't she quite nice to the fairies when they came asking for help?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
Touhou doesn't line up with mythology very often, and Gensokyo was literally made to assuage the fears of youkai about the increase in human population, and the fact that they feel threatened by them. In terms of physical strength, while there are a lot that wouldn't necessarily be, given their choice of forms, if you know Gensokyo's cosmology then you know it's essentially a matter of using "levers" for the forms non-humans take, meaning they can easily overpower humans in a physical engagement barring maybe a few exceptions.

Of course, none of this really matters because even someone relatively weak like Cirno has supernatural abilities that could one-shot a human being regardless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44558138
>How was she supposed to know windows shouldn't be opened while in space?
in the manga its implied she regularly buy rare shit from outside world that can't be found on gensokyo so her mistress can flex on the peasants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
I imagine seasonal youkai strength fluctuates based on the season. The closer they are to their main season, the stronger they are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>remilia
isnt edgy or elegant at all, but actually an uncorrected brat
>flandre
somehow smarter and more mature than her sister
>meiling
literally irrelevant
>yukari
useless jobber
>almost everyone
fucking scheming bitches with no morals that only thinks about money........I thought the six pointed stars that appears when they use their spell cards was just a coincidence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44575243
not as surprising as when he said eiki being taller than komichi and isn't a gap moe character.

[Anonymous No.]

niggers

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
ugly old males exists in gensokyo. back then I legit thought almost everyone is a girl youkai or handsome male like rinnosuke. then the manga came out and bunch of realistic looking old grandpa started appearing beside the gothic lolita dolls looking characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
This is canon at least100%
>Sanae
Basically a cock worshipper
>Cirno
a dumb nigger loves cocks
>Reimu
a racist who eats semen
>Reisen
a nympho feeds on cum

[Anonymous No.]

>>44575929
If you remember, when she first encountered them, she was trying to just get the interaction as over as possible. She wanted for them to stop pestering her and to just shut the door. But the fairies convinced her by saying they were yokai.
>>44576270
This is what coombrain does to someone

[Anonymous No.]

>>44575929

[Anonymous No.]

>>44576328
Basically the whole fandom fantasizes about fucking a touhou bitch and this nigga trynna pretend that touhou whores are innocent

[Anonymous No.]

>>44576151
>Remilia
Is a mix of young, bratty, high class girl and the wisdom of a mature woman coupled with the predator drive and superiority complex of a vampire. The idea of going crazy to the point of circling back to sanity? That's her with boredom.

>Flandre
The exact same as her sister except for the fact that Flan likes to break shit when she cuts loose while Remi likes to scheme.

>Meiling
Stereotypical Chinese martial arts girl who, if not for the spell card rules, would absolutely destroy everyone in hand-to-hand sans the likes of Yuuka and the Oni. She has perfect sense radar by using Chi and can body nearly anyone if not for her lazy disposition and her desire to garden.

>Yukari
A dude playing a dude pretending to be another dude, a la Tropic Thunder. She wants "peace" by keeping equilibrium and plays the act of a useless "mastermind" while actually being a mastermind. Who would you focus more on- the big bad or the mool who thinks she's the big bad? But she's the big bad by jobber, not lifestyle.

>Everyone else
Yeah, pretty much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
>Nitori
Kappa obviously have a advantage in water but outside it acccording to the mythos you could deal with a kappa by pulling its arms out. There was also legends of humans wrestling with them so i would out them at human level.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
Physical strength is such a non-factor in Touhou that I've never really thought much about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559157
>by showing nothing but contempt for marisa
Did people ever expect anything else?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559385
>Wriggle wanted Sakuya to hand Remilia over to her.
True. Though I would argue that doesn't really fit with how she's described in Bohemia or PMISS.

Either way though, the fact she is capable about caring about something else does put her above most youkai morally.

>Mystia is barely literate
She's certainly more clever than Rumia though, considering she is running a con. Wriggle is kind of a dummy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557827
But it is. You're creating something that doesn't adhere to the character. You people who do this are fucking weird

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565595
>All of the beloved Touhou girls
Would kill you, mock you, or scam you.

>Random villager
Would literally adore you just for being a outsider. Would threat you with immense hospitality and kindness. Probably get you a home, a job, and a wife if you decide to stay.

And people wonder why I think Gensokyo should be destroyed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44565751
It's hard to say. The spell card rules would contradict the idea that human villagers are at any risk. On the other hand, there are also plenty of non sapient youkai. As well as plenty of hints that villagers that don't do the smart thing or cross the wrong youkai get killed.

>>44565803
Youth in Gensokyo regularly visit Mystia's concert. A known people eater who hypnotizes people and then kills them. Everybody has a death wish.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44566083
I doubt that. Only person that she might eat is the occasional outsider. Hell, though this is 100% headcanon, I always assumed that is why she looks like a little girl.

>>44574346
> just like when Nemuno in HSiFS just attacked for no reason
Nemuno is actually trying to keep people away from a dangerous place. She's mostly a good girl. Even if she is a literal kidnapper.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44575230
Yet she doesn't hate herself.

>>44576151
Remilia and Flandere are weird that they are both the opposite of what they seem. Remilia acts like a brat but is way more perspective and smart. Flandere acts smart and mature but is a total brat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577340
>>Random villager
>Would literally adore you just for being a outsider. Would threat you with immense hospitality and kindness. Probably get you a home, a job, and a wife if you decide to stay.
Hahaha
You are even more delusional than the retards who believe that youkai will kiss them after they get isekai'd
The human villagers live in squalor, are a bunch of backward superstitious people and might not hesitate to crucify you on the stake if you spook them a little bit

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577400
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Outsider
>Such outsiders are treasured, since they hold unique knowledge.

In general the most consistent characterization of the human village is being incredibly nice considering their circumstances. Despite their squalor and poverty, most of them come across as consistently good people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577400
>The human villagers live in squalor, are a bunch of backward superstitious people and might not hesitate to crucify you on the stake if you spook them a little bit
So, the same thing as the outside world's human population?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577434
Unironically: Some of the nicest people I've met are backwards mountain people. It's a very European thing for the backwards locals to also be evil.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577362
You're still preaching your "every villager is subconsciously suicidal because they bully Nue" theory? All it proves is that they have some balls left, even if they're afraid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577504
Not every villager, but it is genuinly funny how consitintently they seem to have a death wish.

>Go gamble with youkai.
>Go visit concerts run by youkai.
>Bully a person like Nue that could rip them in two.
>Create a plan to become a youkai that involves killing yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
>Rumia
>Probably stronger than human
Come on now

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577538
I guess they like thrills and/or are retards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577584
Also possible. Either way, their lives don't seem to be worth much to themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

Kinda off-topic to this thread but I'll ask anyways, do afterlife realms also need human belief to exist? Hecatia mentions there's a hell for the Otherworlds like Gensokyo, for the Moon and for the Earth, does that mean that humans in the outside world still go to the afterlife regardless of their beliefs?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577625
Inaba hell.. imagine...

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577625
It's hard to say. We don't even know if Youkai go to the afterlife when they die. Let alone what happens to a Christian that perishes in Gensokyo. Though I tend to assume Yukari doesn't touch Christians because the last thing she would want would be to bring the literal wrath of god down on Gensokyo.

Logically however, if gods are needed to maintain the afterlife and gods are dependent on human faith then, yes, they do require human belief to exist. Hell is weird though considering not only is a Buddhist hell being ruled over by a Greek goddess. But she implies that a lot of the inhabitants in hell are borderline lovecraft tier horrors that would try and destroy the universe if left out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577674
>Though I tend to assume Yukari doesn't touch Christians because the last thing she would want would be to bring the literal wrath of god down on Gensokyo
Wait that's such an interesting thought about Gensokyo's lore. Does it assume there's an all-encompassing pantheon, including monotheistic and/or western religions? So Suwako has to share her space with יהוה, Father-Son-Holy-Spirit, and Allah? And even then, what about Athena and her squad?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577625
my headcanon is that what happens to death will remain a mystery to humanity even if some scientists think that you cease to exist and whatnot, hence the reason why the afterlife persist

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577737
>to
meant after

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577718
>Athena and her squad?
Hecatia is part of that clique you know.
Funny enough in Greek mythology Zeus is scared of Hecatia's mom Nyx.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577625
It's kind of like that chicken-and-egg question with world-making gods. Did they somehow live for billions of years without any faith and then started needing it now that humans existed? Were the myths of world creation true? If so, which myth was true?
Man, this thread is kinda becoming a repeat of the one about comically dark doujins. Same people, same questions. I guess there are only so many people interested in lore instead of softcore porn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577674
There was a post that kind of dealt with this topic regarding Yukari which I will now post here.

It is stated in Yukari Yakumo's Perfect Cherry Blossom profile that outsiders generally end up in Gensokyo thanks to fluctuations in the border caused by her. Since the frequency of encountering them is considered to be "low", it might mean that outsiders don't end up in Gensokyo very often. The majority of outsiders that end up in Gensokyo seem to have little knowledge of technology. Because of this, any technology they bring into Gensokyo, such as mobile phones, can not be reproduced. However, outsiders still bring knowledge into Gensokyo that's otherwise unattainable, and thus are valued for that.

Yukari chooses which humans can enter Gensokyo based on their level of power and intelligence.
"They immediately put a tool called a 'mobile phone' to their ears, and after that are at a loss as of what to do next."
— Hieda no Akyuu

Outsiders are not protected by the contract that came as a result of the Vampire Incident. In fact, the unbreakable devil's contract specifically stipulates that the vampires get outsiders to feed on in exchange for not attacking Gensokyo's native residents.
Yukari mentions to herself that "youkai may attack humans but do not eat them recklessly.

So, Yukari gets low spirit level humans with little knowledge to enter Gensokyo for eating.
She actively avoids anyone smart enough to recreate technology, those who could unite the human village and those who have a high spiritual power level. As well as only taking those nobody will notice is gone or whose disappearance won't cause a stir.

It would be stupid of her as well as suicidal to try and take someone like a Priest/Monk, a Charismatic leader or an Inventor/Scientist.

Not to mention the only people she takes are Japanese since Gensokyo is in Japan.
I'm sure a lot of those that go to Aokigahara to commit suicide are sometimes taken by Yukari

[Anonymous No.]

Yuyuko hates Suika and insults her eveytime she sees her and Patchouli is racist against oni.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577748
Wait you're right I'm dumb, I don't even think of Hecatia as Greek I just think of her silly Touhou incarnation. My point still stands for the monotheistic gods too. I guess you could add Ahura Mazda and the Sikh notion of God to the list for non-Abrahamic deities

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
All the named youkai are stronger than humans except Patchouli, who is specifically called out as unusually weak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
>Never actually says “Ze”.
but she uses Ze/Zo all the time

Also im new to Touhou and the biggest one was probably Eiki, in canon she is possibly the nicest character in this series

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577826
I wonder where the Greek gods live now that people can see that Olympus isn't populated. Or was the gods living on Olympus metaphorical? Can't remember.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577826
Gensoyko would have Greek, Indian, Chinese South Asian and Japanese deities.
I mention Greek because Hercules as well as other Greek, Chinese and Indian gods got absorbed into Buddhism.
Example: Heracles was adopted to represent Vajrapāni.
Indra was adopted to represent Śakra.
Buddhists in Sri Lanka venerate Vishnu as the custodian deity of Sri Lanka and protector of Buddhism known as Upulvan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577858
Wrong. Witches are all physically weak though they could theoretically use strengthening magic, still they're all noted as having weak constitutions thanks to the potions they work with.
Fairies are all weak physically.
Ghosts, phantoms, and spirits are weak or as strong as humans but its usually a moot point since only one can physically touch humans.
Hermits are strong but not youkai strong, they are notably more sturdy however.
Tool spirits are a bit of unknown, but they're presumed at least as strong as a human.

[Anonymous No.]

Both Lunarians and Celestials are from Taoism and part of the Jade Emperor's court.
Both Onmyōdō and Shugendō are influenced by Taoism.
Taoist fulu charms became ofuda in Shinto

[Anonymous No.]

>>44578119
isn't Kogasa a blacksmith?
Even if she was originally human level strength, she has definitely developed muscle mass

[Anonymous No.]

>>44576709
It's a big factor in Lewdsokyo, since those are the 2hus that could readily pin you down

[Anonymous No.]

>>44578309
To be fair, we don't know if she's actually physically blacksmithing stuff or using some magic bullshit to create and fixing tools

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577538
Youkai interact with humans peaceful on a fairly regular basis. There's the concerts and gambling hall you mentioned, but they also show up at the festivals and do business openly in the case of the kappa. They don't seem afraid of interacting with them in a safe environment, but are still suspicious and afraid of them outside of that. You would be more afraid of seeing a bear in the wild then a zoo, after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
I don't know about the Komeiji sisters. Their gimmick has more to do with the mind than the body. I'm sure that even if Satori knew you were about to punch her, she wouldn't be fast enough to react to that information let alone tank the hit. I also agree with the other anon that Rumia is unlikely to be stronger than a human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44578597
Well she is a tool youkai, which means she probably did use it heavily.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577625
Reality doesn't need human belief to exist... but cities do, if that makes sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44578051
I wonder if a deity who appears in different mythos would "fuse" together in a single one in Genaokyo or would split into different people. Like for example would Zeus and Jupiter be the same guy in Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579116
Yes. Just look at gods like Okina.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44578947
One is an artificial construct and without people to maintain it,it would crumble away?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44578695
The human villagers are kind of ignorant, and the human forms that the 2hus take really scramble their brains. So them interacting with youkai on a daily basis is not being afraid of them.
Orin is picking up corpses and putting them in a wheelbarrow, has cat tail and ears, and has a fashion sense that is completely foreign.
None of them thought she was a youkai for the longest time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579327
Yep yep!

[Anonymous No.]

>>44576151
>yukari
>useless jobber
Funny how she literally never wins in canon unless she piggybacks Reimu

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579637
the fox is held back by the hag
I want to set Ran free

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577872
secondaries paint Eiki as a bratty loli, when she had ZUN specifically call her tall and professional

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577571
>>44578707
Maybe he's assuming she inherits some of her strength from her Ex form?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579392
>The human villagers are kind of ignorant
They are honestly stupid.
Remember the snake youkai that was dining and dashing?
How did none of them not know it was a youkai? His disguises were crap too. On top of that the human village isn't very big so everyone should know each other like in a small town.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44578695
>Youkai interact with humans peaceful on a fairly regular basis.
Outside of Yuuka, the zashiki warashis and the Prismrivers/Raiko band, most of the interaction happened without the humans knowing that they're interacting with youkais. Nitori explicitly mentioned that the humans don't know that they're youkais during the bean throwing festival in Lotus Eaters, and in FS most of the humans disguised themselves heavily as humans. Aya only really revealed herself to Kosuzu to both threatened and interest her as a youkai, and Reimu can't really interfere

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579772
What, do they just assume all of those young girls with anachronistic clothing came from a different country or something.
Actually, that would explain it to some degree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579905
"Hello strange girl with unusual hair color that I have never seen living in the village, I would like to do business with you as a fellow human"

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579905
begs the question of what ethnicity a youkai looks like
if they look jap, why would they be foreigners

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579905
I think Yukari just abducts REALLY dumb humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577625
Hard to tell since the last thoughts before one's death are a mystery, but considering PoFV talking about ghosts from dead people from the outside world so maybe it doesn't need any beliefs or at least has enough belief from the already deceased to keep itself afloat.
Maybe hell is spiritually strong enough to drag any soul with an unclear view of death and afterlife, which might be all non believers and believers will naturally go there.
And >>44577737 is a fact that will probably stay even after the grand unified theory,

>>44577674
>It's hard to say. We don't even know if Youkai go to the afterlife when they die.
Hard to tell, according to Eiki's conversations in PoFV:
Youmu: Will not come to her when she dies. But Youmu is a weird case for starters
Reisen and Tewi: Talk about going to hell.
Prismrivers: Might just vanish so no afterlife apparently.
Mystia: Not specified.
Aya: "you will most likely fall into hell".
Medi: "you will not be able cross Sanzu river"
Yuuka: She tells her she has lived to much... but doesn't make any allusion to the afterlife.

>>44577872
>>44579662
I think people might have gotten mad at her by the "you talking shit about my waifu?" effect.
But dam, they really do her dirty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579905
Kappa specifically VERY often do business with Reimu and set up stalls in the shrine grounds every time festivals happened, so humans probably grow accustomed to their presence and thought they're fellow humans. I mean, surely our maiden isn't a corrupt person profiting from youkais having to get her permission to do any business within human population right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579946
Most of the human villagers don't have anything that could be considered a education outside what is taught by the parents.
The only school in town is almost exclusive to the higher ups of society, as tuition, supplies, and free time is a luxury many can't afford.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579946
it was directly stated that she takes "people that wouldn't be missed" and the suicidal
so yeah probably massive fucking retards that people pretend to love but would really rather gone

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580059
people seem to forget that universal education is a ridiculously modern concept
Japan didn't westernize until the 1860s, and didn't spread it to every corner of rural japan until well into the 1900s

[Anonymous No.]

>>44557763
I find it pretty funny how Keine, who is in a position to be of really big importance as protector of the village and holder of Gensokyo's history, isn't really prominent in canon.
She is used a lot in fandom as the village envoy alongside Akyuu, but it's only the latter that gets that treatment in official works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577538
Yet after all that they're still alive.
I think that maybe youkais have some rules like only attacking at night since in japanese mythology supernatural shit usually hits the fan at sunset.
Would make sense for the gambling to be dangerous since people might lose track of time there.
>>44574549
PMiSS mentions that Youmu's sword is too big for a human to handle, and it looks like it (at least for a one handed sword to be used decently). So she is probably stronger.
But I'm not really sure what should be considered for the rating exactly.
> absolutely all youkai are physically stronger than humans". If you know your mythology you know it's not true
Eh not all I guess, but in myths many humans killing youkai do it with arrows or swords, which also even the field of humans vs stronger animals.
> Also I'm not sure how influenced this should be
A yes the problem of hu's using gunpowder, trains, weapons, fire along with kicks and punches.
>>44576650
I thought that Kappa where the ones you had to not underestimate for their short size since they had more than human strength.
>>44580222
I guess ZUN decided to change a few things after MoF or something, but it's kinda sad now that I think about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580222
ZUN forgetting about characters can get weird sometimes.
Apparently Sumireko is the first outsider Rinnosuke has ever seen enter his shop. Kourindo existed for 20+ years at that moment and there should have been at least one outsider who stayed in Gensokyo who might've at least check it out, but no.
Although maybe that's the part of the joke? Maybe even Sanae got there, saw nothing interesting and just left, without Rinnosuke even knowing she's from Outside.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580050
I think it's because her official portrait gives her the look of someone who is short.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580266
>Youmu's sword is too big for a human to handle

No way that thing is bigger than a zweihander.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580307
I don't think people even know that his store even exists.
Sumi only went there after being escorted by Reimu and Marisa. Without them, she would probably not have met him, and embarrass him like a typical zoomer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579905
Maybe they think that there are other human villages out there and these girls are traders from there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580500
There isn't other human villages.
Chen hangs out in an old abandoned village that's full of cats but there is only one human village.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580573
ITT: Anons with substandard reading comprehension skills.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577762
My headcanon with gods in Touhou considering that lunarias seem to be gods is that faith isn't their food but a source of Harai/Purity, so it would be more like an antidote against Kegare.
Which means that gods could have created the physical world and then living beings by fusing parts of the material and spiritual world.
But they probably didn't know that living beings generate Kegare until some lost their status as gods.
This could also explain why gods usually communicate indirectly with humans and have messengers.
Their lack of communication with humans might have grown over time enough for them to get debunked even if they still existed and thus having to flee to Gensoukyou.
Creation myth might be harder to explain, maybe it was a collaboration but they all want the credit for it or might misremember things due to massive time gaps.

>>44577674
> Hell is weird though considering not only is a Buddhist hell being ruled over by a Greek goddess
Hell probably has a bunch of weird history that no one living is aware, Heca could have managed to climb to the top somehow over the centuries, also the otherworlds being more than just Gensoukyou means there are some variables we are completely unaware of.
Hell could also be an amalgamation of dimensions that includes every hell but the ones closer to Gensoukyou is the buddhist one and from there you can reach other hell dimensions.
There's also Makai, which seems to be more ̶m̶e̶g̶a̶t̶e̶n̶ christian based, but might be more of a parallel world than an afterlife dimension. Which makes me wonder if Makai has a hell, is a hell or none of the above.

>>44577826
I thought they found some parallel goddesses around different cultures and that she might be originally from somewhere else, or maybe that's just made up by Wicca dunno.
>>44577927
It's hard to tell since it might have been metaphorical then interpreted as literal or the other way around in cycles, but as technology advances believes must go to the more metaphorical/invisible side or people will stop believing them.
>>44579194
Wonder if some might also split into different beings similarly to Kasen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580583
Did I tickle your autism?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580591
>Wicca
That was made up by some British guy in the 50s

[Anonymous No.]

>>44575933
>if you know Gensokyo's cosmology then you know it's essentially a matter of using "levers" for the forms non-humans take, meaning they can easily overpower humans in a physical engagement barring maybe a few exception
Is this about the three layers? CoLA only went in detail about the memory layer. Where can I read more?
>>44576093
The problem is that the only seasonal nonhumans are fairies, gods and a yuki-ona, who in myths might as well be a ghost, and we never see Letty do anything physical
>>44576650
Kappa are described in some legends to be as strong as ten men as long as their dish has any water, so maybe it varies from kappa to kappa. I'll put Nitori and Takane in Probably stronger
>>44577571
Although I doubt Akyuu would exaggerate or undersell Rumia off all people, I thought it was ambigous in PMiSS, I'll leave her there, just in case
>>44578309
A strong human still has human strength
>>44578707
Komeijis do look frail, but Satoris are usually man-sized monkeys, and 1-on-1, monkey will kill a human. So far nothing contradicts this.
>>44580266
>PMiSS mentions that Youmu's sword is too big for a human to handle, and it looks like it (at least for a one handed sword to be used decently)
Do consider that Youmu is tiny, and sword may appear larger than it is. From what I see, it's barelly above some longer katanas, not even near odachi, completely wieldable even one-handed with enough skill. Impressive for a short girl, but not above human.
>> Also I'm not sure how influenced this should be
>A yes the problem of hu's using gunpowder, trains, weapons, fire along with kicks and punches
Weapons and stuff are not a problem, kicks and punches are, if I counted those playable human characters would be stronger than human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580591
Makai was created by Shinki. It is merely a place where demons and strong youkai live.
According to the PC-98 Bestiary
>Devils (悪魔, akuma) are a mighty race that inhabit Gensokyo, mostly in the Makai.
>Like magicians or vampires. It was once said that they lived in different parts of our world until mass appearances of Demon Hunters and other Christian Zealots who hunted them to extinction.
So basically it's a place for demons and other monsters who escaped getting wiped out by Christians.

Also Yukari says there are other places around the world like Gensokyo and she did get a bunch of hobgoblins from outside Gensokyo.
I'm guessing the fairy kingdoms and the fairy queens like Titania and Mab still exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
Official works usually specifically point out when youkai are physically weak, and the only ones that I know of to be stated as such are magicians (Byakuren non-withstanding) and Shinmyoumaru (and fairies if you count them as youkai).
Youkai being stronger physically but weaker spiritually is just how they are. I would assume gods are similar, considering how much the series loves to emphasize their sheer strength.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580682
Yorihime was put in a hold by Sakuya, so she is not physically any stronger than a human. Her sister not being a soldier like her, is probably weaker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580682
>A strong human still has human strength
we ought to be talking about averages though, because Olympic powerlifters would be "human strength" under that logic, and they outclass the average joe so fucking much its not even funny

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580699
It could just be ZUN forgetting, or Akyuu just being a stooge to keep the human cattle from getting uppity.
But we have seen human characters taking down youkai physically in the official works. Most of it is getting a jump on them, and tackling them to the ground.
Or, it could be the human 2hus are superhuman, seeing how someone like Marisa took the full attack that snapped a tree in two, and came out no worse for wear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580713
Try strongmen competitions
Heaviest deadlift of all-time is by Krzysztof Wierzbicki who achieved 502.5kg (1,107.8lb)
Jimmy Kolb Logs bench pressed 612.5-kg (1,350.3lb)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580699
If official works don't mention something about youkai, I assume they work like the original myth until contradicted. It was mentioned that youkai are more durable, but durability and strength aren't the same
>>44580712
Noted
>>44580713
I would put powerlifters as stronger than human. Blacksmiths are strong, but they're not the peak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580682
>Is this about the three layers? CoLA only went in detail about the memory layer.
Given what we know about non-humans in Touhou, the Mental Layer seems to essentially be equivalent to the rules in SMT for the most part, but much less generous for nonhuman survival. It can be inferred that a big part of why youkai are so strong in most cases is that they're "anchored," so to speak, to the mental layer, and therefore can more easily influence the physical layer, and vice-versa for humans (although on an individual basis it seems humans have less leverage over the mental layer. This is presumably why the Youkai freaked out about the human population growing as much as it was.)
>>44580591
Lunarians are more in line with the Amatsukami for most of them, compared to the Kunitsukami which most of the kami in Gensokyo are. The difference is quite literally heaven and earth. I could see belief potentially warding off Kegare, especially considering the Amatsukami are much better known compared to most of the Kunitsukami. Compare the number of people who know of Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, as well as Toyotama-Hime and Tamayori-Hime, to those who know of Takeminakata and Yasakatome (The bases for Kanako) and Moriya, and then further, those who know of much more obscure kami.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580864
Who do you think would win in a fight between a blacksmith and a day laborer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580864
Stronger than human implies supernatural enhancement. Olympiads have to be totally natty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580969
It totally depends on technique, but if they're equal in that aspect I'd give it to the day laborer. Digging trenches was many times more intense for me than blacksmithing was.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580864
>>44580974
I think this is about to become an autism beam fight
nobody specified what the thresholds of each category would realistically be
Is Gappy lifting multiple tons?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580987
The one known physical feat Yukari has is blocking a hammer strike from Rinnosuke when he tried to destroy his Gameboy. Depending on how strong he is, how much force he put into the strike and other factors, it could be anywhere between 800N to 5000N, or 80kg to a half of a metric ton, maybe more. Considering that she casually swatted it with one hand, it's probably a minimum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581116
Rinnosuke is a half-yook, which just cocks everything up entirely
he could be a regular joe, or he could have taken after his mom and be a supernaturally swole motherfucker

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581233
By his own admission, he's at least impervious to human disease due to his youkai half, and immune to anything that damages youkai because of his human half.
So yeah pretty sure he's no regular joe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580319
That's a two handed sword and tends to reach 1,80 meters(at least the ones that are thought to have been used in combat), in the one handed sword range is hard to find stuff beyond 1,20 meter without getting really thin, and katanas tend to be on the thick end of swords and are already two handed, maybe sometimes one handed sword and they were at aprox 1 meter length.
But hey, maybe Akyuu just didn't expect to see a gal with a sword of almost her height.
>>44580682
>it's barelly above some longer katanas, not even near odachi
Guess her WBaWC might have fooled me since there she has the same size as her sword, also odachi might depend which one since sword nomenclature is anything but standard, by blade length maybe since the handle seems really short and odachis tend to be 1/3 handle. I guess Roukanken could be about 1,30 in total, maybe 1,10 in blade length which would be a short odachi.
> even one-handed with enough skill.
I might be letting my sword autism get the better of me, skill isn't that much the issue but strength. But considering that Youmu isn't fighting against other weapon wielding I guess she could be clumsily using the sword.
Maybe she is at human level, guess I tend to forget how short 2hus are according to ZUN's email.

>Weapons and stuff are not a problem
My point wasn't the weapons by themselves, but that they still use kicks and punches with a similar effect to lethal stuff... that's why it's hard to consider the fighting games.
>but Satoris are usually man-sized monkeys, and 1-on-1, monkey will kill a human
Well, I guess that works, I was thinking you'd maybe put them there due to Koishi having her 3rd eye tentacle things, giving them more limbs an reach.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581283
Yeah he's an extra joe, but I don't think he's superhuman or anything in terms of strength. I'm guessing it was probably a medium-hard strike with the mallet on the same level as how one would strike a hammer IRL.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44577362
One Mystia isn't that much to handle, especially if Reimu feels responsible enough to oversee the concert to secure everyone's safety. If you trespass youkai mountain literally no one is going to look for you, its huge with plenty of unexplored areas on top of the vicious territorial youkais there, not even Reimu who is pretty much Gensokyo's enforcer can just waltz in there as she likes

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581504
>Maybe she is at human level
Even if that sword is a normal nodachi and she's just comparatively short, I'd still put her at above human if she's able to swing it as fast as they say. Takes a lot of power to do shit like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580695
>PC-98 Bestiary
Source? Did I miss this in some file that came in mystic square or an ending?
Sounds like some sort of alternate gensoukyou.

True the hobgoblins, guess many different beings created a magical world to survive.
Or had one alreadym but guess ZUN won't expand much on that.

>>44580643
My problem isn't that much if Wicca is made up, but if Wicca(or ocultism, or whatever) has changed a bit the notions around Heca...
Also stupid ass question that just came to me. Does anyone know why her surname is Lapislazuli?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581573
>Does anyone know why her surname is Lapislazuli?
I forget the specifics, but it's another syncretism thing with a deity from a different mythology, I believe Shinto.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44559157
I hate how disgustingly skinny they all are in this
I hate it even more by how my wife is bullied by such a lowly character as the librarian

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581610
Sorry, no fatties in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

I've loved this series for about 15 years and just recently started not liking the fannon stuff so much.
A lot of it is out of character.
>>44557763
>Marisa
>Never actually says “Ze”. Is not really “tomboyish”, gets her ass kicked a lot.
I'm not sure what asskicking you mean. To me she's the hero who beat up Kanako. Maybe not tomboyish but she can be pretty brash and I think that's what fannon turned into being a tomboy.
>Suika
>Is a hyperedgelord and her cute side is nonexistent (only for manipulation)
I don't know about that one chief. Then again I haven't touched the mangas so I could be missing something.
>>44565433
She really is the jew in this series.
>>44565595
This guy gets it. They all have ulterior motives, and most of them are complete dicks.

The one fannon thing that vaguely translated into cannon was Sakuya being a bitch for Remilia.
Sakuya absolutely pretends to be a werewolf for Remilia in DDC. It's cannon.
Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581704
>Sakuya absolutely pretends to be a werewolf for Remilia in DDC. It's cannon. Deal with it.
I'm not sure what makes you think Sakuya being a bitch for doing this

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581116
Yukari didn't stop him with actual physical strength though. When he "hit" her he comments how it was soft and spongey. She pulled some gap hack bullshit and softened the blow by stretching the concept of bla bla bla-gap hack bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

The whole discussion about blacksmiths and laborers reminds me of a Greek legend in which Ares, a deity whose job might as well be to engage in war perpetual, confronted Hephaestus, the bastard blacksmith, but was utterly raped in a contest of strength.
You'd think the warrior god would at least put up a fight against the smithy smithy man but all he was good for is fucking women. Something that smith man would later disclose in full during an embarrassing episode.

FUCK POWERLIFTERS.

In the same vein, fuck 'physicality'. Doesn't matter if a fairy is as strong as a 3 year old when they can simply stay afloat in the merry sky, laughing at you sweating to death as they -through using their privilege as nature incarnate- raise the surrounding temperature to 50c.

FUCK POWERLIFTERS.

>>44576151
Remilia is elegant. Charismatic. Effulgent. Resplendent. Incandescent--so much so, in fact, that it wouldn't be surprising if her powers over fatalism are gifted on account of the world literally favoring her.
Sort of like a halo effect cranked up to a trillion.
You know how beauty and intelligence, strong genes and a long lifespan are all one and the same? Yeah, it's the same here only that this rendition within the context of a world of supernaturalism has the bonus of powers and what better power than the power to influence super determinism?

Yukari, also, is probably the sharpest character and as far away from a jobber as can be and so it's saddening when people misunderstand her multifarious intricacies to this extent.
Then again, that they *do* *misunderstand* is evidence enough that they're all working as they ought to.
Reminds me of shadow from TEiS.
Western animals simply can't understand him.
They just cannot.
Never.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44582040
Heh, my mom told me the story about Ares and Hephaestus last week.
>Then again, that they *do* *misunderstand* is evidence enough that they're all working as they ought to.
I've come to not trust the wiki or /jp/sies much at all anymore. I'll read some official piece of media and realize:
A) People misremember or don't remember details at all
and
B) Misinterpret character actions and/or dialogue, perhaps because of the 'tism
So its really only worth learning about it on my own. I can't rag on /jp/ too much though, all boards are guilty of these faults.
>Remilia is elegant. Charismatic. Effulgent. Resplendent. Incandescent
A bit too much, I feel. She's a bratty kid that exudes arrogance. She can play princess all she wants but it won't ever work absolutely. Kaguya fulfills your description much more aptly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44582040
>Remilia is elegant. Charismatic. Effulgent. Resplendent. Incandescent--so much so, in fact, that it wouldn't be surprising if her powers over fatalism are gifted on account of the world literally favoring her.
Counterpoint:
>She is respected by most youkai, but her charisma doesn't stem from her personality; rather, it comes from the fear that they have for her kind.
Remilia is only treated with respect because of her power as as vampire. Her personality is considered to be "that of a selfish child".

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581704
>to me she's the hero who beat up kanako
so the only feat you can think to ascribe to marisa is one from 2007?
she is comprised of failure

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581550
Youmu got stuck in snow, and needed Rinnosuke to help her get out. She even cried that the sword couldn't cut it, which is kind of weird.
She also seemed to have been knocked out by falling backwards and hitting her head while everyone drunkenly laughed at her.

[Anonymous No.]

zun (plural zuns or zun) A type of Chinese ritual bronze or ceramic wine vessel with a round or square vase-like form, sometimes in the shape of an animal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581573
>Source?
You can find that in the omake of the PC-98 translation patch.
It also contains instructions on how to correctly setup emulators like T-98 and Neko Project.
https://nyaa.si/view/1387521

https://web.archive.org/web/20090127052138/http://gensou.credits99.com/after.html
Zun says touhou is a secondary work. There's nothing wrong with Zun copying from other people. Zun literally admits he plagiarizes others such as manga like Sarai and the manga artist Izumi Takemoto.
Japanese 2hu fans have long been autistically finding all the similarities, influences and works he copied and making yukkuri videos.
https://youtu.be/mcFP5jdJgh0?si=FpRQhR4VZDRFqGdw

Zun didn't expect for touhou to get as popular as it did and in the PC-98 era was just making doujin games for fun.

[Anonymous No.]

If there's a hell for every world, does that means there's a heaven for every world aswell? Gensokyo has bhava-agra for example

[Anonymous No.]

>>44585182
There is but there shouldn't be.

[Anonymous No.]

ZUUUN!!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>44579713
>Isn't very big
Manga very much contradicts that point.

Otherwise, I think villagers basically run on a "Don't ask, don't tell" rule when it comes to youkai

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581825
Well, if she's a werewolf that would make hera bitch by default.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44580734
Pcb prologue claims everybody in the village is a total badass and descended from youkai hunters. While the former clearly isn't true, the latter might still be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44582040
>but was utterly raped in a contest of strength.
I imagine this is what the difference between skill and strength is. Ares is a warrior, skilled in the usage of weapons. He isn't optimized for pure strength because he doesn't need it to make war. I assume if they each fought with a chosen weapon Ares would have trounced him.

> they can simply stay afloat in the merry sky, laughing at you sweating to death as they -through using their privilege as nature incarnate- raise the surrounding temperature to 50c.
I suppose this is also similar to the argument that learning how to fight is a waste of time because you can just buy a gun, which is true in many ways. At least in the US.

>>44582942
Much like Ares, I assume Youmu is not terribly strong (or smart apparently) but makes up for it in being skillful in the usage of a sword. You don't need to be jacked to be a good swordsman after all.

[Anonymous No.]

Will Youmu ever get married?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44586898
She will when Yuyuko decides that she needs to start training her successor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44586898
No. ZUN might hate his fans and will mock them, but he knows there would be blood on the floor if they ever get canon husbands.

[Anonymous No.]

Will Zun ever talk about Reimu's parents?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587115
No. But we can assume most Hakurei's are total sociopaths and Reimu's dad was probably forced into marriage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587046
While they are not the most popular characters in the series, we do have the Moonie sisters being canonically married.
But I doubt we would see a character like them any time soon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587115
no, apart from two vague references that could either be taken as her being an orphan or just a coincidence
marisa's the only protagonist to get significant backstory additions after her first appearance
reisen's character development was all present details, sanae hasn't had anything apart from various pop culture references, youmu's not had anything ever, and sakuya was ignored after IN
I guess Ran is a protagonist now according to 19 and she got the toutetsu reveal so that's something

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587133
>forced into marriage
That's a nice way of saying "raped into being the father for the next Hakurei miko"

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587133
I guess my next question will be will Reimu get married or just abducted someone and make him her husband?

[Anonymous No.]

Would it be wrong to take advantage of Koishi? I'm sure the human villagers wouldn't care since she's a youkai and most people forget she even exists even after meeting her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587225
How would you take advantage of something you can't remember?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44586709
>I think villagers basically run on a "Don't ask, don't tell" rule when it comes to youkai
This, it's fucking hilarious that everyone so damn nervous everytime Suika barged into the village in Lotus Eater

[Anonymous No.]

>>44586709
It's stated that they know the rabbits are the medicine sellers but ignore it because they provide a good service.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587284
Suika sometimes doesn't even try to hide the fact that she is an oni or her disguises are just bad like putting all her hair up to try and cover up her horns.
I guess nobody in the village wants to confront her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587141
True. Also Suwako was a mom... once.

>>44587150
She might have kept him afterwards.

>>44587160
Never. Same reason Youmu will never settle.

[Anonymous No.]

Reminder that if you are strong enough a oni will become interested in you and challenge you to any contest of your choosing.
Should you lose, she will abduct you but if you cheat or do something cowardly, she won't want anything to do with you and will hate you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587284
>>44587390
>>44587467
It's funny, and kind of sad. Most Youkai we see put basically zero effort into their disguises. Human villagers just kind of meekly go along with it. Wonder how far you would have to push them before they pull out the torches and pitchforks

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587815
Wonder if Suika holds a grudge against Nemuno. The latter did seemingly raise Kintoki after all

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587146
Youmu has Youki which is relatively plenty of backstory. We know the konpaku are a lineage of (two) half human half phantom that work as the gardener for Hakugyokurou

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587815
Oni are scum buddy.
Suika likes to champion "oni ideals" but we have been getting a nice stream of information on this wretched youkai.
Like the cursed cards in LE, and in the recent game where the oni are described as a super violent war hungry species that should not be trusted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587962
>the oni are described as a super violent war hungry species that should not be trusted.
Oni are Americans?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587962
Suika seems to have mellowed out quite a bit from her youthful days of being one of the great terrors of Japan. But everything does imply most Oni are bloodthirsty twats that make Mystia seem welk adjusted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44587976
No. Americans are more similiar to Kappa. Oni are like Russians.

[Anonymous No.]

male oni look funny

[Anonymous No.]

>>44581283
Clearly the key to making a master race is impregnating youkai

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588067
My ancestors...

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
Eirin couldn't lift a jar by herself and needed Reisen for help in the fairy manga if I remember right

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588149
She's old, anon. You're not supposed to make meemaw carry something heavy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
I think a lot of this has to do with youkai as a species versus youkai as a general qualifier for "not human".
I am certain that kaguya is no stronger than a girl of roughly 20, & I don't think byak would be anything much special without her magic. Same goes for all magician types like Futo and Miko.
I also think putting Kagerou in top tier is a little bit of a stretch, but that's just me.
Rumia being stronger than a human fits my headcanon of her being rough around the edges and using that advantage to compensate for her general retardation though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588149
Kanako also showed to have average human strength in LE, when she asked Sanae to help move a large barrel of modern distilled sake.
Then there is the recent LE chapter where Orin got trapped by what looks to be a non-magical, old styled hemp rope.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588231
>Kanako also showed to have average human strength in LE
>is a god
>cannot lift more than half her weight
how the fuck does this even works? touhou gods powerlevel confuse me

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588231
She doesn't ask Sanae to help. Sanae offers to help and Kanako lets her because it's the polite thing to do. She's been carrying it all the way back from the outside world and clearly was handling it just find because she doesn't look even slightly taxed

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588254
Didn't she also throw a stone
Pillar in CDS at Marisa?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588290
Aw she just did it so Sanae could feel useful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588254
Because you would be more scared of her sending a violent rain storm to wash away your crops, or a tornado to smash your house to pieces and killing your entire family.
Not because she will just walk up to you and punch your head off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588290
Eirinbros...

[Anonymous No.]

Sure are a lot of old men in gensokyo...

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588382
Me on the right

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588382
They're not ugly, and I'm pretty sure they're not bastards, either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588382
The entire human population of Gensokyo is old men and shotas, going by most doujins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588453
They are all massive alchoholics having to cope with the total empty nature of their existence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588459
Man age treated this guy kindly then

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588537
Do you think Udon and this guy have sex?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588537
Some men refuse to break.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588556
Reisen comes as a bonus for repeat customers

[Anonymous No.]

Which Reimu is the real Reimu?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588556
Seeing how this is a canon vs fanon thread, you should know that Reisen canonically hates humans and even made up a slur to refer to them, so doubt it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588697
Did Reisen get raped by astronauts?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588693
all of them are facets of reimu, but true reimu is ULiL final route Reimu
I'm a big fan of SSiB and FS Reimu though because they're Reimu at her most competent

[Anonymous No.]

Gensokyo is a matriarchy.
>Every important position in youkai society is held by a woman
>Male youkai exist to be bullied (Unzan is the exception)
>Spell card rules are designed in a way that they appeal to women instead of men, so only women participate and thus have to power to solve incidents and protect themselves.
>Things are better in the village as you can gain wealth and influence, but you'll always be another villager.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588693
All of em
She's a gifted slacker that takes her job very seriously, that's why her serious depiction is usually human village-focused printwork while the chill/lazy depiction is youkai-focused printwork

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588697
Isn't Reisen mostly over her hate of humans?

Either way, Eirin in canon would 100% use Reisen as a prostitute if she thought it would benefit them.

>>44588711
Liberated.

[Anonymous No.]

Would you have sex with these animals?
I hope not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588697
hey, she tried to be helpful to humans before, too bad Eirin punished her for some reason

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588793
she progressed to the point where she does help humans, but is still casually racist to them

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588793
>Isn't Reisen mostly over her hate of humans?
If anything she's been showing more hate for humans lately. She went from helping them to calling them short-ears.
>Eirin in canon would 100% use Reisen as a prostitute if she thought it would benefit them.
Bold of you to assume Reisen would go along with that. Ironically for being a coward, she's the only servant character in the series who has had the balls to ignore orders from her master. More than once, even.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588915
That's just because she enjoys the punishment room. It's not out of disloyalty.

[Anonymous No.]

ZUN tried to do some funny masochism gags that tie-in well to hisami's youkai species, but that unfortunately ended in her fanon being the most cancerous of any character. Even surpassing miko's.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588941
Show me one instance of her enjoying her punishments. This isn't a Hisami situation, anon; she's actually scared of them as seen in LoLK's bad ending.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588902
Isn't that a slur for anything that isn't a rabbit? I don't think it's just for humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588915
>She went from helping them to calling them short-ears.
A reference to her having better hearing than most. even Eirin has short-ears, and she's talking to Marisa the person she buttheads a lot with in canon print work of course she would be shitty her

[Anonymous No.]

earth rabbits and lunar rabbits are racist to each other too

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588968
You know damn well that having a weird fetish like that would have made her the new yuri bait character. ZUN should have known too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44589132

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588759
But the man you mentioned, Uzan, also participate in spellcard duels so there is nothing stopping men from having them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44589089
Tewi’s a cunt

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588382
Is it just me or the dude on the right looks like a older professor oak?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44574549
A single punch from a youkai is probably strong enough to shatter a human's bones
A rough estimate, I think Onis could do way worse

[Anonymous No.]

>>44589580
As an assistant to a woman. Men using Danmaku would be seen as the same way as male ballerinas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44590069
Nah, it's the other way around. Ichirin is just there to serve as Unzan's hitbox.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44589089
My take away from this is that Tewi is much taller than she is typically depicted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588956
Feel bad for ZUN sometimes, between that and him feeling trapped out of not being allowed to write male characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44590801
Has he ever drawn a male? I'm curious as to what it would look like in his style.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588215
Kagerou is a werewolf
she's definitely plenty strong, she just doesn't flaunt it

[Anonymous No.]

>>44590811
Rinnosuke was his youkaisona. He drew himself when he was younger then got embarrassed about it, just like his own theme song.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44582942
> She even cried that the sword couldn't cut it, which is kind of weird.
Checked the CoLA chapter and she didn't say anything about cutting the snow.
Knowing Youmu she might have been freezing to hard to move properly considering that Rinnosuke comments on her non winter fit clothing and that Youmu seems dork enough to underestimate the cold. Makes me wonder if she freezes before humans due to her lower body temperature or if it would take more time for her to freeze due to her natural cold body.

>>44586829
>You don't need to be jacked to be a good swordsman after all.
Sadly I don't have decent data nor spare money to buy and try but using a 2handed weapon with just one hand without even having something like a shield to help handling the weapon requires strength.
Skill isn't that much of an issue, just like getting good at gunmanship won't help you handling a gun designed for 2handed as if it were a small handgun.
But I guess Youmu's case is a bit on the edge since it isn't on the bigger end of 2handed weapons but still seems to be one. Also being forged by youkai and a spiritual weapon first could mean it's a lighter metal or a finer blade (or it could also be a heavier metal like silver).
Also now I'm wondering how the heck she would unsheathe her sword if it's around her size.

>>44582040
afaik Hephaestus defeats Ares once setting a trap with some gold chains in his bed to trap him when he went to bang Aphrodite, but if there is a different story with beef between those two I would be glad to hear it.
Hephaestus is also a bid crippled probably because for bronze arsenic was used before they changed to tin.
Although if we get to blacksmiths I guess it depends on what they handle, if they are making zweihanders for example and have to handle those big things all day they might get to english longbowman level of upper body strength.

The list anon is making is a pure how much they could do with their just body.
But I agree that flight is very OP especially if you can also use ranged attacks.

>>44582182
Yep, that's the kinda problem of canon discussion, as well as the inconsistency you find with long running series.
And not reading the original japanese might also create more confusion like the case of Junko's power and the moonie purity being both called the same in english.
But I'm not sure if nips discuss much what's canon since my impression is that they have less people with canon 'tism

[Anonymous No.]

>>44590937
I mean, being jacked probably WOULD help provided you aren't so muscular that you can't effectively swing the sword anymore. Schwarzenegger had to slim down a bit for Conan the Barbarian because that was the case for him. As for how Youmu unsheathes it, it's probably handwaved like it is for most fictional characters that have weapons that long. Or it just pops out with magic without having to actually be pulled out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44590937
>zweihanders
They're actually pretty light. Typically less than 9lbs. And I'm dubious that would offer the same level of resistance training as, say, a longbow with 120lb draw weight. Lifting a relatively light weight and whacking it over and over again just doesn't sound like it'll give you those gainz.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588215
I think even if it's "magical enhanced" it should count, what should not count is stuff like Parsee counting as 2 if she duplicates but muscle magic should count imo.
Top tier is just definitively stronger than a human, so it isn't much of a high tier is stronger but a matter of chances, and a normal werewolf having the same strength as a normal human is something unheard of me, even normal wolfs have the upper hand on humans (if completely unarmed), and werewolves seem to be sometimes even stronger than a wolf.
Can't comment much on Rumia or lunarias though, since I don't remember any explicit strength feats in Touhou or myths. I don't even know if Rumia has any mythical inspiration.

>>44588231
>>44588290
Ironically the panel makes her look like she is carrying without much effort, not how much sake those things have, but I seeing Sanae struggle might mean that Kanako might be on at least athletic human human level.
>>44588314
This one baffles me since it looks like she just tries with one hand and then says "Fuck it I have servants for something"

>>44590811
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Miscellaneous_illustrations_by_ZUN#Swedish_Player1_Magazine_Interview

>>44581583
Bhaisajyaguru?
>>44585117
Can't find anything about it in any files ZUN included with the games, so I'm not so sure where that comes from.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44591283
>Can't find anything about it in any files ZUN included with the games
It is included with the omake did you not get pic related in the download? There is a whole file dedicated to trivia and early Zun written works.

[Anonymous No.]

How are we on page 8 already?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44593136
Nope, I checked just in case.
But I thought that the english patch omake was just those pics since that's all I have( Touhou 98 experience).
Aside from that I looked in the manuals and omake of each game but I can't find that specific info of makai anywhere.
I found it in two pages after searching what you posted:
https://touhou.fandom.com/wiki/Devil
https://black-rebellion-gensokyo.weebly.com/perfect-memento-glossary.html
But none of them seems to point to a specific ref, so maybe that's something fanmade?
Or I am failing terribly and never found those early ZUN written works things to start with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44593445
It is from his early bestiary works along with some of his musings like his rejected art works.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>44593481
>It is from his early bestiary works along with some of his musings like his rejected art works.
Huh, guess I'll have to see if I find anything of that in other pc98 download packs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44593526
Good luck I was trying to find Zun's old blog in the wayback machine for you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44591218
I thought that handling those things all day might actually be cumbersome as hell and that the really big not-for-battle ones where also made by the same blacksmiths.
But tbf I exagerated there, they might be strong but not necessarily very strong.
>>44591168
>Schwarzenegger had to slim down a bit for Conan the Barbarian
kek, bodybuilding is some wild shit, but in fiction you can just make small characters be as strong as superripped guys and... that's also handwaved like many things.
>>44588902
Doesn't that "slur" work also on lunarians?
>>44577762
>Same people, same questions.
A pleasure to derail the thread into another lore thread... again, at least this one is about canon so it was more related to lore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44593546
Thanks, guess I'll have that if I have no luck with the pc98 packs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44590470
Taller and with a rack
Once again proving that loli-sokyo was never real, but was merely art style

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588693
They don't even contradict that much desu. A happy go lucky bastard that that slacks because she can. As much as people chastised her for being corrupt, no one has ever complained about her not doing her job as Gensokyo's enforcer

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588693
All of these are true. Reimu's character is defined by 4 qualities that are all embodied in these different interpretations: Reimu takes her job very seriously. Reimu is very dumb. Reimu is emotionally immature. Reimu doesn't value life.

In many ways she's not that different from a Youkai. Basically the only thing that really sets her apart is her sense of duty. I used to hate her for that, but while she is unquestionably a tool of the system she's mostly, well, a tool. I can't ascribe any malice to her actions for the same reason I can't ascribe any malice to the actions of a dog that is owned by a tyrannical dictator. Don't get me wrong, she is still a pretty bad person and she arguably deserves to die for everything she's done. But, well, if you were to burn her alive at the stake she would probably spend her final moments crying and genuinly confused of what exactly she did wrong. Which just takes the fun out of it, you know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44588759
Yes... ish.

Technically the highest authority is the Dragon god, who is presumably a male.

>>Things are better in the village as you can gain wealth and influence, but you'll always be another villager.
I would say it's closer to you can earn wealth but no influence. The only actual escape would be murdering Reimu or trying to break the barrier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44594549
>The only actual escape would be murdering Reimu
Even if you could bypass her intuition/shrine powers the sages would 100% be on your ass instantly if you killed her/tried to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44594926
I feel Reimu is stupid enough you could probably off her using Poison or whatever. With that said, you are correct you would 100% be murdered unless you pull of the perfect murder. Even if you break the barrier the remaining Youkai sages would still hunt you down and murder you.

[Anonymous No.]

What would happen if you raped Reimu and got her pregnant?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44598268
You wouldn't live long enough to see it be born.