2hu lore thread

[Anonymous No.]

How far would Marisa survive each game without the spell card rules covering her ass? Would she able to reach the main villain (and EX bosses) and avoid getting brutalized by other bosses?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
Aw sweet, a lore thread!
>How far would Marisa survive each game without the spell card rules?
Are the enemies fighting with death intent? Yuyu and Flandre could instakill her, so that's a no no. In PC98, where to our knowledge there's no spell card rules, she does survive each game, so I don't think anyone would be a problem for her except those that could instakill her. Even for those, it's likely that her magic can boost her defensive skills: just look at her fight with Flan in CDS, where she is still capable of attacking after being launched to a tree and breaking it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
Alright, to be clear, this won't be a real lore thread if you won't talk about the dark aspects of Gensokyo
Let's start with how much of an hypocrite Byakuren is, always preaching about "peace" and "coexistence" between humans and youkai, yet she turns a blind eye to all of the mischief and anti-buddhist attitudes that her disciples display, they are all out of leash and yet her response to all of it is "nevermind".

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078606
She is a hypocrite

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078606
>Anti-buddhist attitudes thst her disciples display
Such as?
Drinking beer and eating meat? That's a Japanese buddhism classic

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078597
>In PC98, where to our knowledge there's no spell card rules
well tbf no one really dies in that era as too, so i think most battle in pc 98 weren't a fight to death either.
and pc 98 barely canon in the first place

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078642
Yeah but it seems like no one has ever fought to the death in Gensokyo except for the humans who fight to not be youkai food (and lose)
If you are strong you can guarantee your survival and it doesn't look like many characters try to kill others all the time

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
>How far would Marisa survive each game without the spell card rules covering her ass?
spell card rules are the only thing holding Marisa's lethal butt back
without them gensokyo would be under the heavy oppression of marisa's rear...
this is now a butt thread btw

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078597
flan is a shut-in that would easily fall for marisa's lewd charms, she has no chance

[Anonymous No.]

Are the Sages of Gensokyo basically those who hold the most political power in the realm? Are they kind of like the CIA, silently plucking out anyone that is a threat to the status quo while maintaing the social order of youkai scaring humans and humans fearing youkai?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078606
Go away Aya

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
without spell card rules, the only protagonist who would be able to clear most of the games is reimu and that's only because she can just cheat reality
nearly everyone else would be hard filtered by yuyuko instant killing them

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078751
ah yes, yukari doesn't exist, flandre doesn't exist, watatsuki sisters don't exist, hecatia doesn't exist, reimu is definitely the strongest out there

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078696
No, the Sages are not a homogenous group. There's big disagreements in action and ideas between the three sages of Gensokyo, and I would put it more like a "Council of Elders", the most powerful people who discuss important issues (like the creation of the Hakurei barrier)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078751
lol no
Sakuya can also cheat through time stop, Sanny can call a miracle of not-death and is a halfgod
Just Youmu and Marisa to our knowledge couldn't dodge an instakill

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078757
Don't forget

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078790
yeah we don't even know how Flan's power absolutely works if Yuuma is able to dodge her "instant destruction"
It's not impossible that through magic manipulation Marisa would be able to at least stop the damage from being deadly

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
I think she could finish DDC and HSIFS (excluding Okina), as all of the bosses there are low to mid-tier youkai

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078778
>Youmu
Would it even work on her since she is half ghost?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078761
Kasen seems to hold the least influence compared to pro-youkai and pro-gods like Yukari and Okina
I mean at the same time it's necessary, humans HAVE to be oppressed for youkai to flourish

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078817
She's still halfhuman enough that she is mortal, right? I think of IN's extra

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078696
Speaking about the sages, why did Kasen chosen to be a sage instead of Suika considering their actual myth? Did ZUN wrote himself into a corner by introducing Suika too early or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078818
yeah Kasen was away for a long time and isn't as influential on power alone, but at the same time she's the only one whose presence isn't universally hated.
And humans would be naturally oppressed in a land of youkai anyway. The only initiatives aimed at dismantling this, like the History Society were so weak and ill supported that as far as we know no action was taken against them and it dismantled naturally
Mizuchi is the first actual threat to the order tho and I'm very curious about where her manga will go

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078740
Aya didn't write the Symposium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078778
>Sakuya can also cheat through time stop
I don't think a mere time stop would do shit when Yuyuko can kill her with just a thought, it's not like Sakuya can kill her again by stabbing her with her knives

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078817
>she is half ghost
She is not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078857
I find it interesting how Akyuu rated the threat level of Outsiders in PMiSS as "unknown", that would imply that there is a potential threat for outsiders to mess with the status quo of Gensokyo too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078906
Aren't you forgetting Sumireko?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078906
Yes and that's why Yukari has to carefully pick which kind of outsiders get spirited away in Gensokyo, they are mostly suicidal hopeless people seeking death or criminals that won't be missed, and in particular she avoids taking people with keen knowledge on science

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078857
>actual threat to the order
She doesn't do much aside from pranking Youkai I'm disappointed, in fact the one who almost made chaos was Aya, who made people think she was possessed for making villagers lose even more faith in Reimu

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078945
yeah but her pranks so far have thrown Gensokyo into a bit of a frenzy
The youkai still feel sufficiently threatened to create webs of alliances never seen before like Flan with Yukari
I am still hopeful Mizuchi has some master plan preferrably involving some kind of master partner other vengeful spirit

[Anonymous No.]

Akyuu once mentioned that Lunarians and Gensokyo once used to have relations before they ended a long time ago, what could this mean? And did Yukari play a part in it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078998
well consider the following:
It's implied that the moonies intentionally helped create the existence of youkai to keep humanity down and scare the earthly monkeys with bogey creatures whose purpose are to continually cause a dumpster on their societies, you could say the youkai were kind of like slaves/tools to the lunarians but as humanity progressed in science the youkai were weakened and failed their original purpose so now they reside in a small realm of their own, and the worst part is that the youkai tried to invade the moon 1000 years ago

So yeah, the lunarians see youkai as failures that they don't need anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078998
Stop posting fake news, Sagume

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079024
Wait im confused, was it really humans who created youkai out of belief or lunarians?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079046
think of it like this: the delusions of humans gave template to the youkai while lunarians enhanced their existence

[Anonymous No.]

So regarding half youkai, what exactly would happen to one stuck in the outside world? I remember Rinnosuke slipping into modern nipland in early CoLA and becoming disoriented, but it was a pretty quick lapse with not much to learn from.
I'm assuming their supernatural side would fade away until they were 100% human, but that just makes me wonder if they'd get it back if they returned to Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079580
Mamizou was in the outside world before TD and she never stopped being a youkai.
It's more to do with your conscience: if you are conscious of being a half youkai, you will keep being one, but if you forget, you might become entirely human.

[Anonymous No.]

Is the barrier mostly self-sustaining or would it break if Yukari was killed? It obviously needs maintenance but I wonder if it could at least survive for some time without her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079717
Ran do most of the maintenance, so I don't think Yukari dying would be a big problem

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079717
Yukari helped set up the barrier, but she's not the one keeping it up, it is the Hakurei Shrine. Reimu can mess with the barrier, as seen in CoLA, so it isn't impossible that she could perform maintenance. However, it's clear that she doesn't understand the main principles of its construction, so if it was destroyed I doubt she would be able to set it up again

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079739
>>44079717
The Dragon God is the one that created Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079758
Yes, that's why I said she helped set it up?
No need to get so offended Iku

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079588
Tanuki in general have enough belief to survive in modern japan. I feel like a random Gensokyo half youkai would fare differently, especially if they're out there long enough to be hit by logic and external disbelief.
>if you are conscious of being a half youkai, you will keep being one
I suppose it would also depend on the kind half breed. A half tanuki would have an easier time, but any weak willed demi-human might start to question his youkai side and risk losing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079779
Yeah...
If everyone around you tells you you aren't a youkai, perhaps you would lose that belief pretty quickly. Rinno has no noticeable youkai qualities except for long age, so perhaps he would be in prime position to lose his youkainess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079734
There's a decent chance that the shikigami spirits might just disappear entirely if their master/summoner died.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079795
But it's Rinnosuke, dude's sense of logic are conspiracy theorist tier I'm pretty sure he would retain his youkai heritage by some random obscure kanji wordplay or shit even when the entire Japanese population screaming at him that youkai are just a myth

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
Thanks a lot! I love Touhou lore threads, I was in charge of creating many in the past, Anons, what are we discussing now? I want to join!

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
>without the spell card rules covering her ass?
Speaking of something similar, I remember a theory that said that Okina and Eternity Larva helped the protagonist in all the games with the P items

[Anonymous No.]

>>44083555
Elaborate

[Anonymous No.]

Say, which youkai species is the strongest?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44085770
Oni, probably

[Anonymous No.]

>>44085463
Eternity Larva created the P items according to the theory

[Anonymous No.]

>>44085938
and what evidence do you have for this theory?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44085974
Actually I have no idea if it's true, I read it in a lore thread I made a long time ago, there is another theory that I think is more credible that says that actually the P items, and other objects that appear during Danmaku fights are inside the girls or something like that, where do you think the items come from?

[Anonymous No.]

Hey, I've been hearing this for a while and I want to know if it's true, is Eirin "canonically" a sociopath? Or at least a manipulator? I mean, she's abusive towards Reisen and has Kaguya completely dependent on her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086083
Dunno and don't care. She'll be quickly incinerated in the blast of the quantum nuke I'll use to destroy Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086148
Thanks a lot! We can work together?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086083
>sociopath
Applies to youkai in general

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086211
Perhaps...

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086043
Maybe i am talking out of my ass but maybe those items are just game elements and don't actually exist

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086083
She's a kami, not a human. Human thought patterns (and recorded aberrations) most likely do not apply to her.

That said, by human standards, she does exhibit sociopathic tendencies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078597
>In PC98, where to our knowledge there's no spell card rules
you can call that that non-letal confrontations were just as common or spell cards were here, but not one used just yet

>inb4 EoSD
anon, there are lots of PCB lore that aren't canon anymore

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086043
>>44086696
Yeah if there's no lore surrounding them I don't think we need to stress too much thinking about them. I think the only lore is found on the game manuals, but not anything substantial.
But I do think that they have an in world counterpart. Screen borders, also normally thought of a pure gameplay element, have been commented upon in recent times, although still in a manner that doesn't make much sense, but it's not impossible for p items to be representing something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086747
do we even have ever had a fight to the death in Touhou?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078696
>political
not really, each leader does have the most power within, but they are a lot of (soft) conflict between groups, the sages does have power ONLY because they are responsibles for gensokyou's barriers and even yet each sage has her own agenda (kasen in th15.5, yukari in th7, okina in th17.5)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086762
It's just the good ol' fourth wall break anon, don't think too much about it

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078929
still think that kanako and co. weren't helped by yukari, but okina instead

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086769
Few of them yeah, like Flandre vs Yuuma, Reimu vs Kasen's arm, or Okina vs the fairies

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086806
>Flandre vs Yuuma
Yeah, actual fight to death, although I don't think Yuuma wanted to try to kill Flan
>Reimu vs Kasen's Arm
Yeah definitely
>Okina vs Fairies
Not a fight to death, more like a fight to fairy exhaustion. While Okina *could* cause their deaths, she still opted to only strangulate Clownpiece, so I don't think you could call it a fight to death.

My point is: most fights in normal danmaku games aren't to death not only because of spell card rules, but also because Gensokyans just aren't that interested in killing eachother. They do THREATEN to kill a lot, but it's mostly threats. Now that I think about it, the moonie princess did threaten to wipe Yukari out of existence. That was at least a bit credible
But yeah, I don't think Marisa has to fear for her life without spell card rules in Gensokyo. Elsewhere, like the Lunar Capital, she might be in more of a pinch, but people in Gensokyo just don't kill for no reason

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086806
>Okina vs the fairies
>fairies
you can even argue that every fight your everyday fairy gets involved in is to death, with the exception of GFW, in which cirno never die, just get bored and left

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086803
>helped
I don't think the sages cares that much about youkai and gods move into Gensokyo, after all the place was created to be refuge for fantastical being in the first place

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086837
>without spell card rules in Gensokyo.
that's the strange part, what IS the watsonian reason spell card rules are active (and valid) in parts like new hell, the moon and makai?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086863
I´m taking into consideration that kanako is a sort of daughter of okina

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086837
>>44086851
Yeah I know it's fairy after all, but still lol
It's the only fight we saw that the fairies confirmed to actually dies (if the "revived" here means back from the dead), while other depiction battling fairies like in the games can be handwaved still using spell card rules

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086907
>if the "revived" here means back from the dead
dunno, considering that some chapters earlier it was introduced the concept of fairy's hybernation crystals

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086872
>The Moon
It wasn't active before SSiB at least
>Makai
The only people you fight there are Shou, who was outside of Makai, and Byakuren. Well for Byaku I don't know
>New Hell
No idea, but Yachie at least was already expecting a Gensokyan.

I guess the spell cards just kind of naturally went to other places, there was a natural predisposition as well, since it is stated that girls like danmaku fights

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086837
>I don't think Yuuma wanted to try to kill Flan
Well, Yuuma's last phase is a bit too menacing don't you think?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086837
>people in Gensokyo just don't kill for no reason
Sure, doesn't mean those youkai would hesitate to maim some poor bastard that try to mess with them, and we all know how the incident resolver actually operate kek

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086989
yeah but that's a reason: food, self defence
It's like a cow. You kill it for food, but you don't kill her one day simply because you felt like it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
A powerlevel question?

Her dodging skill is very good and her firepower is overwhelming, however if you're really getting rid of the rules then there are several youkai and gods who would kill her easily without her being able to lift a finger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078696
Gensokyo has no leaders on that scale, and they have 0 political power. They can't force anyone to do anything.

Sage is a sage. They're wise. They can suggest stuff and, maybe, people will listen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078848
I headcanon that Suika was fucking tired of that shit after leading for nearly a thousand years, and Kasen had more useful abilities (can speak with animals IE dragons IE the dragon god who had to approve the creation of the Barrier)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079024
in fairness

we have literally only 1 line of dialogue implying that Lunarians made youkai, and it is delivered by an actual criminal who is currently smugly gloating to some people who just barged into her house

[Anonymous No.]

>>44079717
>It obviously needs maintenance
Since when? Yes Reimu minds the barrier, but we've never seen or heard of her actually performing maintenance. I think the only time I can remember the barrier being under a natural threat was when a tree got in from around the outside world or something. I don't really remember, it was in SaBND near the end
but like consider how there are known weak places in the barrier (such as Muenzuka) that nobody fixes or does anything about

The barrier doesn't seem to need "sustaining", it seems like a wall. A wall can be broken or slowly chipped away at, but overall with proper measures in place it'll just be a wall. This wall is based on "common sense", which is quite sturdy indeed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086083
Eirin loves Kaguya (not that way) so the answer is no.

Eirin's very "by the book", that includes feeling that certain things MUST happen such as paying prices or fulfilling a role in society, but she's not without any emotion. She's just very old and very stark. She's also not human so this is actually a pet peeve post for me: "Hey, the non-humans aren't very humanlike!" yeah of course they aren't!

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086998
I wouldn't doubt a youkai possibly killing you just for the fun of it. Not like slaughtering a cow, but like swatting a bug.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086872
>>44086929
SSiB shows the "assume this happens all the time" scene for spell card rules. Basically, ZUN is not going to write dialogue for, or a text box that, "these are spell cards new boss enemy, shall we use them? yes okay! okay! we've decided to use spell card rules" so just assume that pre fight every single time the girls go "WAIT...first let's make some rules" if the enemies aren't from Gensokyo.

In SSiB Marisa brings the topic up, explains the goal and appeal, and Yorihime agrees to duel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44087782
Yeah, they'd do that for a random human. But someone like Marisa, the youkai won't exert themselves to a fight to death just for the sake of it

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
Where can I get info on specific characters personalities
Wiki sucks for those details

[Anonymous No.]

>>44087896
play the games
read the omake.txt (for some games these are easier to find in the wiki such as the PC98s)
read the printworks
hear the characters' themes

[Anonymous No.]

>>44087633
didn't the evil dragon still owe her a wish?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44087797
so basically it does happen off-screen, gotcha

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086696
Nah, you may be right, it's fun to find an explanation for everything

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086706
>>44087725
Ok, speaking of something similar and putting on the table a topic that I had
already talked about before, which is the character that is canonically the most
evil? I know it sounds a bit silly because Touhou is so wholesome but even so
there are characters that canonically have done bad things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44087896
>Where can I get info on specific characters personalities
Embrace the fan consensus because in the official games they either have very few lines of dialogue to come up with anything or NONE and in the official mangos they have very inconsistent personalities like in Reimu's case. Hell, some canon personalities were shaped by the fans and adopted officially, like in Yuyuko and Flan's case, while Sakuya's official personality shits on all the cool shit the fans had taken for granted, officially she's a fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089058
Given that the Lunarians practice mass slavery and have attempted genocide it would have to be one of them
If you had to pick one out of the lot I guess you could say Eirin as they are the one that had the largest role in setting all that up and while they are uninvolved currently taught and directed the ones currently perpetuating Lunarians bullshit

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089657
Eirin is my favorite character....

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089683
well you can love her still, slavery and all
or if you dont like that and wanna just mark all of that on 'cultural differences' we could look at evil in terms of willful awareness of doing wrong and acting so anyway in which case we could point fingers at someone like Seiga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089544
But Sakuyas been a goofball since her debut. You are literally retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089860
One thing is being a goofball, another is being a literal retard that doesn't knows you need to breathe to keep living. And no, she wasn't joking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089783
Let's see, I like Eirin because she is an evil person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089894
why would she be joking

oxygen as something that we "breathe" was discovered/proposed in like the late 18th century, with the name being proposed around then. Sakuya is implied to have lived with Remilia for a length of time beyond typical human lifespans. So, it's perfectly conceivable she wouldn't know the concept of "oxygen".

It wasn't "air" either, it was oxygen. Sakuya also opened a window in a spaceship while it was in space, once.

[Anonymous No.]

My theory is that Remilia drank too much of Sakuya's blood at once and left her braindead for a few minutes before Patchouli rescued her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44090526
Man living in the age of the internet perplexed that a person who lives in a world without internet does not understand "basic concepts"

Gensokoyans in general also believe in gods and monsters. Are they retarded or are you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44090553
You're definitely retarded for not getting a joke post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44090563
It's a joke based on "lol Sakuya must be stupid!". Or, is it not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44090494
>>44090553
Bro....she literally lives in a mansion that has a huge library staffed by a magician that uses all sorts of elements. Reimu and Marisa don't and they know what oxygen is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44090852
Neither Reimu nor Marisa imply that they know what oxygen is.

Also you have the entire internet at your disposal but I doubt you could precisely describe all aspects of the world around you, could you? You need to be taught. As far as I'm aware Sakuya is in the mansion to do a job, not to learn things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44090913
Can't you be quiet and go run some errands?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44090986
What a twatty response.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44086762
They are part of the Danmaku and spell card system that Reimu enforces.
The one maintaining the system is Okina.
So yes, they are real to an extent. But we have not seen them as physical objects in anywhere but the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44093004
>The one maintaining the system is Okina
What? Where is this ever stated?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44093028
In my post.
But it's also said she manages the "balance of Gensokyo" which can be taken to mean all the mundane and unseen things which would also fit with her being a hidden god.
I guess you could also claim Satono and Mai are the ones doing it since they can manipulate mental and vital energy which are extends and [P] respectively.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44093071
>In my post
Are you ZUN?
No, honestly, I just wanted to see how you got to this conclusion. In fairness, it's as good of a theory as anything, and I do like the Satono&Mai connection.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44093028
>>44093071
>>44093098
point and power items are a gameplay abstraction, similar to how the fights themselves and even the story and interactions are abstractions

The point and power items plain and simple don't exist.
"Bombs" do seem to exist, though. They are referred to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089657
Anons, is this true? Eirin is the most evil character?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44095922
IMO the most evil character in Touhou is Yukari with an enormous asterisk that points to a footnote which states "She has reasons"

Eirin has always gone with the flow. The one time she didn't was in order to fulfill the wishes of someone she cared about (Kaguya). She wasn't a ruler of Lunarian society, just a part of it. She's no more evil than you might be for any horrors your country commits. We don't even know whether Eirin owned any slaves. Her students do, but did she? It's never been said and she's very individualistic. It might even be outright unlikely that Eirin even owned rabbits while on the moon. While she SEEMS to own Reisen on Earth, Reisen actually offered herself to Eirin and their relationship is master/student. Kaguya is Reisen's owner, and Reisen is classed as a "pet".

Now let's look at Yukari. Yukari is 100% responsible for everything she has done, often directly and hands on responsible. What has she done? She's terrorized people, she led a huge number of her comrades to their deaths, she betrayed Suika so that the oni couldn't return to Gensokyo, and she regularly kidnaps humans explicitly to feed them to youkai--maybe to eat them herself. Children, and adults. She also set a system up to monitor the outside world to find candidates to steal and eat. She is partially responsible for the human ignorance of Gensokyo, and she generally acts with her own and sole view of paradise with no input from anybody else. She owns several COMPLETE slaves that have entirely submitted themselves to her to the point that they have NO true will of their own as their original selves are suppressed by a new personality, invented by her, that is also a slave, and she doesn't mind sending these mindslaves (her shikigami) out to die. She abuses them too.

*She has reasons.
Everything Yukari does is to maintain fantasy. Fantasy isn't lovely and safe and beautiful, but she's done arguably the best you can to make it all of those things. She has reduced violence dramatically with the spell card rules, she protects the ignorant villagers, and she seems to mainly if not only kidnap criminals and degenerates from the outside world to kill/eat. Yamame explains the mentally deranged have a unique taste, even. Anyway even her slaves are, to our knowledge, willing slaves. She hasn't dominated any of them, they submitted themselves in order to share a bit of her overwhelming power. She led her comrades to their deaths because they had been threatening to spread beyond Gensokyo and possibly suffer not heavy losses but COMPLETE erasure under "Reason"--which is proved in the current state of the world with youkai and gods barely existing in the outside world. Finally, she betrayed Suika because Gensokyo would not have been able to handle a mass influx of oni returning.

So I think Yukari is the most evil if only since she's the most spartan and the most willing to do bad things for her own ideals. After that, it might be "Kasen before her arm was chopped off". Her malice was insane, and is incomparable to any other character in Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44096091
>After that, it might be "Kasen before her arm was chopped off". Her malice was insane, and is incomparable to any other character in Touhou.
Oh yeah, dovwe know why pre-chopped Kasen (and her arm nowadays) is pretty hostile/evil that makes her fellow oni, Suika and Yuugi, looks like law-abiding citizen in comparison?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44096143
We don't know about Yuugi, though she seems very standard oni so it might be safe to assume that she has kidnapped a lot of humans and maybe eaten some too.

Suika is canonically an aberrant oni who refuses to kidnap people and is very friendly with humans. It's possible she has never killed even a single human, if she refuses to even kidnap them. She was a rule of the Mountain however, so regardless she, once upon a time, allowed youkai to kill humans. Arguably that's her philosophy, though: freedom. It's not canonically stated that Suika values freedom above all else, but her actions and the company she keeps strongly imply that regardless of her own views on things (she is really harsh with Yukari, for instance) she still prefers people choose to do what they want to do, and if you die because someone chose to kill you, so be it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44096143
>dovwe know why pre-chopped Kasen (and her arm nowadays) is pretty hostile/evil
simply put no

My headcanon/"actually this might genuinely be canon" is that it's due to the Ibaraki Box of a Hundred Medicines. We've seen what it does to people and Kasen warns that it turns you into an oni. It made all the humans who drank from it violent and awful, but looking at Suika and Yuugi they're violent but usually only when push comes to shove--or to play around. It feels like Kasen must've drank from the cup for whatever reason, became an oni, and became a particularly shitty, vile oni at that due to how the Box exacerbates negative oni traits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44096091
>they have NO true will of their own as their original selves are suppressed by a new personality
For Chen at least, I remember reading her personality remains the same whether she's possessed or not, probably because she's still a fledgling and not as robustly programmed as Ran. It feels like Yukari intends to keep a hands-off approach to Chen's training and just see where Ran can take her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089544
Where can I find that fan consensus then

[Anonymous No.]

>>44096091
>>44096091
> She owns several COMPLETE slaves that have entirely submitted themselves to her to the point that they have NO true will of their own as their original selves are suppressed by a new personality

I’m gonna be frank, this shit about Ran not having a personality and no free will is utterly retarded. The worst fanon I’ve ever seen. Anyone who believes this doesn’t know anything about her character and there seems to be a worrying number of people who perceive her this way. For one, we see her personality make itself known multiple times despite her not getting much attention in the story. Her interactions with Aya and providing mathematical proofs of the sanzu river's dimensions is one example of this. She enjoys math so much that she tries to bring Aya into it (and then the bird brain got filtered because of how complex the math was).
Aya: Hmmm. I haven't seen a pointless accomplishment on this large of a scale in a long time.
Ran: I told you that I only did this out of boredom.
Aya: You must always be really bored.
Ran: I've got time to waste, since Lady Yukari is sleeping all the time...
This AI that lacks all free will and lacks a mind of her own (let’s pretend her "Shikigami of the Ego" and "Shikigami of the Id" spellcards dont exist lol) has ''time to waste'' and fucks around doing absurdly complex math.
Now there’s something I want to address from Bohemian Archive:
> Naturally; equations themselves are shikigami. Just as equations that neither diverge nor converge produce an infinite number of solid objects, so do the equations Lady Yukari uses to increase my power indefinitely. I therefore act as the equations command.
> So that's how it is. I don't think I could keep up acting in a predetermined fashion. It'd be too constraining.

Now when Ran says this, she isn’t saying that Yukari is dictating every minute action she takes, thus robbing her of agency. Yukari isn’t using equations to make Ran eat her kitsune udon in the most optimal way so as to not spill her dashi broth or some shit. If Yukari had this tight control over Ran, she wouldn’t disobey Yukari and be abused
Then there’s this, ‘’ Oh, I see. Since you use a shikigami, you're good with equations, which means that even as you're run by equations, you're also controlling them...’’
Source: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bohemian_Archive_in_Japanese_Red/Ran

Now if you read through this text from Perfect Memento, you’ll see words like ‘’slave’’ or that Ran ‘’must’’ do whatever Yukari says. But as we’ll later see, Ran serves Yukari only in an official capacity as her servant, without any magical or psychic coercion influencing her actions.
Source: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Ran_Yakumo

Now for the best part, a paragraph that completely destroys the notion that Ran has no free will:
''At any rate, I will explain once again for Ran's sake. It is not abuse; it is discipline. Ran is a shikigami, so if she does not do exactly as I say, she will be unable to perform at her optimal efficiency. Despite that, she ignored orders and fought with humans. (This is likely referencing her taking revenge for Chen's defeat in PCB) So, I scolded her.’’

If Yukari really did replace her personality, then why is she acting like this? Why would Yukari program her computer in this way? It makes no fucking sense to give her a personality that acts defiantly. Yukari is frustrated by Ran's disobedience and feels a need to correct it and sees that correction as a sort of ''lesson'' (it’s just her being a massive bitch but that’s beside the point). It's almost as if Yukari doesn't have total control over her servants and resorts to abusing them when they disobey her (otherwise she could just program them to always obey her orders or replace a personality that’s ‘’defective’’). This seems to be a running theme with the Yakumos. Yukari can generally get Ran to do what she wants, but she will sometimes disobey. Ran can’t really get Chen to do jack shit for the most part. She only ever helped Ran during the events of Detective Satori. And Chen has no authority over anyone, despite her trying to get control over the cats in Mayohiga.
Source: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bohemian_Archive_in_Japanese_Red/Yukari

On a lighter note, in Alternative Facts in Eastern Utopia Ran hid her kitsune ears because Aya was taking photos (she likely perceives her ears as a sort of private part). Aside from being adorable, it again proves that she is very much in touch with her fox self. Just as Chen is with her cat self. Which explains why Chen is always on her own, doesn't like being sprayed with water and is easily distracted by catnip.
Source:https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Alternative_Facts_in_Eastern_Utopia/Essay/Aya_Shameimaru#Essay_1

[Anonymous No.]

>>44098548
Thank you for your vocalization on this matter. I was this close to snapping myself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078929
>they are mostly suicidal hopeless people seeking death or criminals that won't be missed
this is true. but there is a twisted joke on this.
>As those who've tried to commit suicide walk along this path when it is covered with red spider lilies, the toxins will swirl around their bodies, and then something wondrous yet unpleasant takes place: their will to survive will become rejuvenated. And then, deciding to try once more, they will suddenly come to reconsider their decisions and turn back with a renewed will to live.
>There are nasty youkai who lie in wait, hoping to hunt for a meal of an outsider. After going through the trouble of enduring the struggles of reconsideration, and just when thinking about once again trying their best, being preyed upon by a youkai is no suitable repayment or reward. Depressed people, spiteful people bearing grudges, criminals and the like are the favorite food of youkai. There are plenty of those kinds of people here

[Anonymous No.]

>>44098548
Anon, Ran's (the kitsune's) personality is suppressed. There is direct contrast drawn between her and Chen, the latter of which will revert to her nekomata self when sprayed with water. And computer programs are never and have never been infallible. Think of it as an organic AI. It's not always going to act perfectly according with your expectations.

The fact remains that so long as Yukari is alive, you are never going to meet Ran - only "Ran".

[Anonymous No.]

>>44099730
For fuck's sake, stop being a secondary obsessed with this one hyper specific part of her character.
Walks like a fox talks like a fox- is a fucking fox.
I bet I could dig up a hypothetical quote disproving your theory from ZUN, and you'd still cling on to it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44099756
No. It's a moot point because Ran the character is Ran the shikigami. The kitsune is absolutely irrelevant and is never going to come out, so getting bothered it that is pointless.

What secondaries fail to realise is that the whole arrangement is most likely consensual from the kitsune anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44096091
>she regularly kidnaps humans explicitly to feed them to youkai--maybe to eat them herself. Children, and adults.
Also
>she seems to mainly if not only kidnap criminals and degenerates from the outside world to kill/eat.
Anon...why nobody call you in this contradiction, is a mystery.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44098548
>so do the equations Lady Yukari uses to increase my power indefinitely. I therefore act as the equations command.
>I don't think I could keep up acting in a predetermined fashion. It'd be too constraining.
This is the key part that a lot of people tend to mistake as full control. The shikigami isn't outright replacing the original being, but acts as an overlay that channels the master's power into the vessel and facilitates its use. It makes sense that Yukari would be uptight about Ran following orders as not to revert to a weaker state and waste that imbued power (and just for the sake of instilling obedience). Yes, the original personality may take a backseat at times, but it'd be dumb to claim the whole setup is a drag and drop affair.
Plus, Yukari isn't a slave driver just for shits and giggles. More like a very scrupulous programmer hellbent on debugging and making sure her code runs efficiently. But at the same time, she obviously values the versatility and wit that comes with a sentient shikigami, else she'd just stick to using minor animals like her crows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44098548
>I’m gonna be frank, this shit about Ran not having a personality and no free will is utterly retarded.
It's true so I'm not reading all this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44099756
Ran != the kitsune Ran is installed onto.

This also isn't seen as something "wrong" so you raging so much about it is stupid as fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44099820
Because it's not a contradiction you fucking idiot.

I even said "she has reasons" and you could argue that this isn't "bad".

[Anonymous No.]

>>44098548
I'll note this:
>COMPLETE slaves that have entirely submitted themselves to her to the point that they have NO true will of their own as their original selves are suppressed by a new personality
>or
Ran is option 2. She has a personality but is still a slave.
Here's option 1. This is inarguable. This being, by Yukari's command, killed itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44100443
dead

[Anonymous No.]

I rewrote this post as I wrote it while waking up, and my eyes were blurred. I misread things.
>>44098548
I'll note this:
>COMPLETE slaves that have entirely submitted themselves to her to the point that they have NO true will of their own as their original selves are suppressed by a new personality
This means that they follow orders. The personality you see Ran display is only what Yukari allows. Some of her shikigami seem to have even less personality, and just follow commands, such as this being, which by Yukari's command killed itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44100457
dead

[Anonymous No.]

>>44099820
>children
>criminals and degenerates
damn brats...need youkai correction...

[Anonymous No.]

>>44100457
>The personality you see Ran display is only what Yukari allows
>Yukari allows Ran to be defiant despite it pissing her off and making Ran weaker than she normally should be

Maybe Yukari is just kind and generous and values Ran's individuality...oh wait its Yukari we're talking about. And as you proved earlier, she's one of the evilest characters in the setting. So logically it makes no sense that someone like her would ''let'' Ran act in such a way or ''make'' a personality that pisses her off with its disobedience. Yukari ''çreating'' Ran's personality is also pure headcanon btw, we know almost nothing of Ran's backstory. It could very well have been what was offered to Aya. Ran being a normal youkai or human or whatever and accepting Yukari's offer for more power and intelligence. It makes more sense that Yukari CAN'T take away or ''make'' Ran's personality. Because if she could she wouldn't need to punish Ran for disobedience in the first place! I swear people really really want this to be true. Is it a fetish? I admit it might be hot if its done well enough in a hentai doujin. But the logic just makes no sense at all.

[Anonymous No.]

Yukari is very smart. Shikigami are programmable and she's treating Ran like a strong AI rather than a simple slave. I'll explain.
Uncreative person:
>Ran, go cut my grass
>Ran does exactly this and nothing else. Once the task is complete it just wanders around aimlessly or maybe even just freezes in place
>There's no other programming in place
Creative person:
>Program Ran to act with more agency but still according to defined parameters
>Ran takes initiative and performs maintenance on its own because its falls under some of its parameters
>After the grass is cut it goes off to do something else, and if a threat appears its programmed to deal with it

So while Ran seems individualistic and friendly, its nothing more than Yukari's programming
>You are to follow any and all orders I give you.
>So long as you are acting in accordance with all of the parameters I have laid out, you are to act autonomously.
>Firstly, you are possessing a kitsune. You are to act as though she would. Present yourself in a reserved yet relaxed manner. Reveal absolutely nothing about our activities, directly or implied.
>Secondly, your and my welfare are important above all. Any threats that present themselves to us are to be immediately assessed and dealt with accordingly.
>Thirdly, I have drafted a set of tasks you are to execute each day on a checklist. You are to fulfill them as described.

Its quite intelligent, but Yukari isn't perfect so Ran doesn't act perfectly. Its like me telling a terminator to bring me a million dollars. Well, did I tell it not to rob a bank or to counterfeit the money? Will it be brought to my digitally or physically? Will my demand be interpreted completely differently than I intended, not resulting in any money period?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44101889
>So logically it makes no sense that someone like her would ''let'' Ran act in such a way or ''make'' a personality that pisses her off with its disobedience
She's literally a monster only interested in pursuing her own goals. If she finds something interesting, why not let it ride? That's how she reacted to the thoroughly dangerous Lunar Orb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44100457
>"for even the vampire cannot rely on the outer world's magics, only in gensokyo can all be brought to a close"
What does she means by that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44104193
SSiB unironically filtered me with how confusing and vague a lot of the dialogue in that thing

[Anonymous No.]

>>44104193
She means that Remilia can only get to the moon in her stupid rocket because she's taking off from Gensokyo, which is metaphysically/magically closer to the Lunar Capital. If she'd been in the Outside World, relying on Outside World magic/tech, the distance would've fucked her over.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm pretty sure shikigami Ran is just AI, and the actual self of the kitsune is buried pretty deep in there

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078906
>>44078929
I'm actually into a lot of AI chatbot stuff and am doing one where I am a spirited away human and eventually want to plap some youkai the entire card is based on EraToho and talked to Ran in it. I played as someone who knew computer science and wanted to move forward in the story to give internet access to Gensokyo, get them involved in imageboards in the outside world for humorous responses etc, wanted it to give me ideas to talk to the kappa about it but Ran shut that shit down immediately, talking about how doing anything that would compromise the barrier even through such a minute connection would endanger the concept of Gensokyo itself because it would fuck with the boundaries between it and the outside world.
Honestly GPT4 and Claude is fun as shit to explore lore-related stuff to get answers based off a specific character's view. Loading up a god-tier touhou lorebook with a good touhou card can get some top-tier results that make it seem like you're talking to the character directly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44111373
If you don't mind, there was a guide for Claude floating around somewhere but I can't remember where I saw it on here. Could you reply with a link or direction? Also, is Claude or GPT4 better at getting results for this sort of thing? I've had the idea to do exactly as you're doing for Touhou to get accurate results for paying around without the characters sounding brain dead after three messages like in CharacterAI.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44111373
>touhou lorebook
I saw a "lorebook" someone posted here once and it was chock full of bullshit and headcanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44115067
Link? I wanna see how bad it is

[Anonymous No.]

>>44115202
Can't link you, sorry, didn't bother to save it anywhere. Noped out in one of the beginning sections where it tried to posit Yukari was Reimu's foster mother.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44115233
At the very least can you remember which thread was that? So I can search it up in the archive

[Anonymous No.]

>>44114941
AI Chatbots are in a weird spot right now.It's not in a good place because you either have to find something invite-only (which can be a process unto itself) or join the horde of redditors trying to pounce on a proxy when it becomes available. I'd recommend the chatbot general on /g/ but it's a schizo madhouse. I'll drop back in when something becomes more viable though.
In terms of which is better it depends. GPT4 is more expensive and will give razor-sharp answers but a few complain it's too agreeable and won't take liberties, that it lacks "soul". Claude is less expensive and has a tendency to fall into generic boilerplate statements but is also cool with taking more liberties on what you type. Considering both are relatively scarce I'd be happy with either.
>>44115202
The one I'm using, I don't know how bad it is, is https://www.chub.ai/lorebooks/hebelover/Touhou-AkyuuKnowledge

[Anonymous No.]

Hey, I'm sorry if you already answered this question, but what conclusion do we come to? The P objects and others that appear during the game. do they exist or not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44115949
They are never mentioned outside of how to play manuals, not even indirectly afaik.
If you but every gameplay mechanic as something that's happening story-wise that would mean instead of having spellcard duel where both character use the same rules, one contender looses in a few hits while the other is tanking a shitton of knifes, needles, lazers or whatever they shoot like if nothing until they get distance stabbed 800000 times or whatever it takes to defeat a boss in game.

[Anonymous No.]

What is the purpose of the titmirror?

[Anonymous No.]

In Canon, who is the character most hated by the other characters? More disowned or feared? And if you can, also tell me who is the most hated by the Fans if it's not too much trouble

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120757
Seija Kijin, everybody wants her ass dead

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120768
Can we make a list of the most hated characters in the Touhou Canon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120757
>most hated by the Fans
Sumireko gets a lot of flak from westerners, but is moderately liked by japanese.
Mamizou, since some think she's shoved into too many official works.
Depending on who you ask, Flan and Koishi for the psycho/schizo-enthusiasts they attract.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120757
The Komeiji sisters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120757
Shou fucking toramaru, and Aunn Komano.
I hate them both for being bland boring fucks with stupid hair and annoying personalities.
Aunn also strikes me as a reddit 2hu, since "oooh le cute doggooo what a good girl".
I want to make her cry in particular.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44087688
yukari also mentions that youkai were born from the light of the moon (and she seems to hate youkai) and seems like the dragon god contributed to gensokyo's creation, and he's likely to be a lunarian (especially is he's the watatsuki's dad like in myth, but this is not confirmed)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44124346
He means hated by fans in general, not the ones you have an autistic hateboner for. Lots of people don't even remember Shou or Aunn either way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44124362
>and she seems to hate youkai
Why do you think that is?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44101889
Maybe Ran fulfills a role similar to a jester, reminding Yukari that she can't have total control of things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44124362
sorry had a brainfart, i meant lunarians. yukari obviously puts the needs of youkai above all others

[Anonymous No.]

What 2hu is the most autistic? Both socially or in general.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44126029
I know she gets thrown around a lot but Koishi is the most likely one, she's quite literally incapabe of functioning normally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44126029
Koishi arguably doesn't count
Yukari is the real sperg hu

[Anonymous No.]

>>44126029
My picks:
Alice - Creepy loner who provides hospitality but doesn’t engage with her guests. Obsession with dolls.
Sakuya - Extremely knowledgeable and precise with her cleaning, retarded in most other areas.
Patchouli - Shut-in deadpan NEET that speaks for herself.
Youmu - Awkward dork who gets made fun of by everyone.
Miko - Wears the ‘tism noise-cancelling headphones because everything is too overwhelming otherwise.

Additions are welcome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120757
People forget that supposedly nobody likes the SDM (Devils piss off humans and youkai alike, but this could also be true to any gaijin)
Remilia have a rivalry/dislike of yukari, and reimu doesn't give much of a shit for her either

[Anonymous No.]

>>44096143
I don't think its very hard to comprehend
Most oni do have a bit of goodness in them and can clearly become civilized if they wished too
In the case of arm-chan Kasen pushed all her evil into her arm and sealed it, making the Kasen we know 'good Kasen' and her arm 'evil kasen'.
Thats why when they combined at the end they were actually balanced and not one or the other before Reimu re-sealed the arm using the blade fragment. It was all explained in the manga wasn't it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44126907
Reimu likes Remilia, they just have a sibling-like relationship where they bicker all the time (the EoSD endings are an example of this)

[Anonymous No.]

Similar to the previous question I asked about who was the most evil and most
hated character, now, who is the most Good character? In other words, the one
who does everything for the good of all and with the best morals, a "Pure Goodness".

[Anonymous No.]

>>44129458
>Eiki
>Byakuren (she’s a hypocrite though)
>Aunn
>Kogasa aside from scaring people
>Ichirin

[Anonymous No.]

>>44129458
I think at best a few characters are true neutral. There is no one "good" character seeing as to how they all have their own view of "good".
Ironically Yuuka might be the only "good" character seeing as to how she minds her own business.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44129458
Hina takes away people's misfortune for the sake of taking it away and keeps humans safe by directing them away from the mountain.
Eiki can quite literally distinguish between good and evil and lectures people so that they can improve themselves.
Kasen seems like she's alright enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078696
>Are the Sages of Gensokyo basically those who hold the most political power in the realm?
Nah, Okina and Yukari are secretive as all hell while Kasen barely even understand how to be a hermit outside of meditation and shit
We would see a tengu and kappa leader as sages if political power matter

[Anonymous No.]

>>44129458
Keine is pretty selfless in IN when she defends the village, despite being woefully outclassed by the main cast.
>>44129926
Yeah, it's much easier to list neutral characters than any that stick their neck out for people without some ulterior motive.

[Anonymous No.]

my heroes

[Anonymous No.]

I want to hear a bit more about the whole Shikigami Ran thing, and I found this link to an old ZUN post where he seems to talk about it.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040404190222/http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/cgi-bin/diary/nicky.cgi?page=1
I'm a EOP so I'm not 100% certain what it says but this line seems to be of interest
>橙も藍も式神になるとパターン化します。でも普段も見た目や性格は大差ないのですが…
DeepL shits out
>Both orange and indigo are patterned when it comes to shikigami. But usually their appearance and personalities are much the same...
With indigo and orange just being Ran and Chen.
The full paragraph is an answer to a question we do not have, but he's talking about patterns in it, so I'm not quite sure if he's referring to the personality of Ran/Chen temselves or like the "personality" of the spell cards. (Been a while since I played PCB, but aren't Ran and Yukari almost the same boss? He could be referring to that.)
Can someone who can actually read Japanese clear things up for me...? Do read the full paragraph first though...

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120757
Canonically Seija was literally so far on the shit list of gensokyo that they actually reversed using danmaku rules on her and actively tried to kill her in ISC. They failed of course because the grimoire of usami shows she's still around and kicking and may or may not have escaped the hit on her via okina, but she is probably pretty firmly the most hated in gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

Any interesting lore about the fairies or are they just dumb lolis?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078751
You know Yuyuko has only ever used her power of DIE twice.

On herself, and on Mokou who she already knew was Immortal [and that one only happened if IN Nether is canon. Which it probobly isn't].

It's massively out of character for Yuyuko to use her ability.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44134228
There's nothing heroic about Cirno wearing shoes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44101996
You keep not reading whatever i say and then post your fanon. Everything you said was disproved by my prior posts and the sources i used (which you failed to address/criticize and will likely continue to ignore)

I'll address one of your points
>Ran does exactly this and nothing else. Once the task is complete it just wanders around aimlessly or maybe even just freezes in place
When Ran isn't freezing in place or wandering around in poorly written fanon, she does all sorts of things. Like having an interview with Aya:
Aya: ...Do you always think of such things when you are bored?
Ran: I try to calculate things like how many particles it would take to blanket Gensokyo with mist or how long it would take to reach the North Star.
Aya: You must always be really bored.
Ran: I've got time to waste, since Lady Yukari is sleeping all the time...

I think you're just baiting me at this point. Regardless, this is my last reply to you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44135282
In WaHH it explicity states that fairies are lifeforce and nature itself. Without them Gensokyo would wither and die metaphysically and literally.
If Hectia were to complete her plan of nabbing all the crystalized fairies hell would flourish with life and nature possibly changing it's nature.
Yes they are dumb lolis, but they are technically lowkey gods and literally nature and life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44136519
I know you want to badly think of Ran as some cute busty fox girl, but the fact of the matter is she's a shikigami that must obey Yukari, and the only reason she comes off as individualistic is because she's a highly advanced and well programmed shikigami. GPT-4 could say something x1000 more convincing than Ran's bored line in your post and it still won't be sentient or free. Yukari would gap you into a feral youkai den or just kill you outright if you ever tried getting close to her robot.
But if this is too dark then we can look at how shikigami exist in real life: As conjured entities. I suppose its possible for them to have personalities, but ultimately they exist to serve their master/summoner and one getting out of control is very bad news.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44137227
Do you think that human slaves where AI or robots too since they HAD to obey their masters or else they would get whipped/killed?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44137291
What kind of gay logic is this? Of course not.

[Anonymous No.]

Thoughts on this theory?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44138468
the actual post >>44137681

[Anonymous No.]

>>44138620
Thank you so muuuuuch

[Anonymous No.]

>>44138468
I'd believe it if it was explained how the hell eirin learned how to do quite literally everything, because as far as i know chang'e isn't the type of character to make medicine let alone the hourai elixir, she is more the type to order someone to do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44139177
Nah, you have a good point Anon, but still, what are the chances that Chang'e is an already known character and not a completely different character?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44085770
Magicians: they start being slightly weaker than a fairy, but they have the potential to become unstopabble
But Zun has mentioned that they aren't exactly youkai, more like a species of devil, much like vampires.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44138468
Meirafags are mentally ill. You should dismiss what they say out of hand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44135282
My headcanon, but I don't care, feel free to disagree:

1. Fairies can recuperate their health extremely quickly. Cirno gets mauled constantly, and when she isn't outright killed, a few moments later she's back at full power

2. They have somewhat of a mutualistic relationship with magicians: the SDM is filled by fairies because apparentely Patchouli has an easier time experimenting with magic thanks to their presence, or something like that. Marisa and Alice are also good friends with the fairy cast, which implies that the two species get along at a natural level, somewhat like tengus and kappas.

They also tend to inhabit the same places, with the forest of magic being mostly populated by the two, ignoring the unnamed species of youkai. There's also the fact that fairies can become stupidly powerful when buffed by magical experimentation (Clownpiece comes to mind), so fairies may seek mages for protection and power increase in exchange of companionship and assistance

[Anonymous No.]

>>44140873
Fairies get a power-up from ANY powerful individual causing trouble nearby. They get riled up and go rampant. That's the canon reason for all the fairy mobs the heroines mow down in each game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44140988
>Fairies get a power-up from ANY powerful individual causing trouble nearby.
i thought that they only got more aggresive, not neccesarily more powerful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44141023
Same thing for fairies. Their power fluctuates depending on their attitude, as demonstrated by Cirno.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44141028
>Fake it till you make it
I love Nine so much

[Anonymous No.]

>>44140239
How would one go about becoming a Magician, do you think? People like Patchouli are born as one, but then people like Marisa, Alice, and even technically Byakuren qualifies as a human that became one. There's the concept of the "abandon worms" and "abandon food" rituals/spells/what have you that humans need to perform in order to cross over into a new identity but it's never given much information as to what they are. The "worms", I assume, would have ties to the Sanshi three worms in Taoist belief, but considering Alice is from the West, there may be a Western euivalent that's unknown. As for the "food" part.....a magical core to sustain oneself? And to further the question-what else is needed to actually be classified as one besides those two processes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44090852
>a magician that uses all sorts of elements.
Patchouli uses the Wu Xing elements (fire, water, earth, wood and metal), and not necessarily the periodic table elements that we know.

>>44140873
>apparentely Patchouli has an easier time experimenting with magic thanks to their presence, or something like that.
The reason for this might be spelt out in a lore source I'm unaware from, but it could be due to their regeneration; Patchouli can experiment without worrying about fairy casualties as she would worry about human/youkai casualties.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44141697
For the part of Patchouli having an easier time, it's apparently due to the Western style magic she used before swapping to the Wu Xing at an unknown time. The Western style she used translated to using the classical elementals in spell work such as Undines, Sylphs, Salamanders, etc., so she was technically using the power of "fairies" before getting to Gensokyo and then swapped to using the Wu Xing which runs off of the five elements, and the "fairies" over in Japan either are tied to, or got tied to, the concept and belief of being "nature". And in Japan, the fairy is known as Yousei (where Daiyousei comes from-great/big fairy). And Yousei are in a weird state of existence where they are spirits of nature/fairies/even minor gods. So Patch basically learned the Western ways, came to Gensokyo, and at some point had enough loyalty points that she got a free upgrade to power use. That's partly why she's so strong, she uses the elementals as a battery to draw power she may have but has difficulty using on her own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44141616
>How would one go about becoming a Magician, do you think?
Aside from the two required rituals of "abandon food", and "worms", we sadly not know much the actual procedures.
>then people like Marisa, Alice, and even technically Byakuren qualifies as a human that became one.
Marisa is (still) a human that practises magic, there's magician as an occupation, and as the actual species.
Alice is still not a fully fledged magician, as she still has to complete the "worms" ritual. Byakuren is the only one that fully converted into one right now.
>The "worms", I assume, would have ties to the Sanshi three worms in Taoist belief, but considering Alice is from the West, there may be a Western euivalent that's unknown
Thats interesting.
>As for the "food" part.....a magical core to sustain oneself?
Could be?
>And to further the question-what else is needed to actually be classified as one besides those two processes?
Wearing a pointy hat to distinguish themselves from the muggles. Jokes aside, Akyuu says that mages are very close to humans in what thoughts and mannerisms refers, so it would be hard to distinguish a mage from a human, eccentricities aside.
Since they are very similar to humans, one can imagine youkai attacking them much like humans.

Footnote: Byakuren and Alice, having been humans once, seem to be less eccentric and more approachable than Patchi, who was born as one. This could be her upbringing, or maybe that pure mages are just like that.
>>44141697
>
Patchouli can experiment without worrying about fairy casualties as she would worry about human/youkai casualties.
Exactly my thoughts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44141304
Though you have to keep in mind that growing too powerful is NOT good for a fairy, as she may turn into another being altogether, thus losing her link to nature, immortality, etc. as per PoFV.

That said, Cirno's aberrant in her desire for power, anyway, so it's not that widespread of a risk.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44129458
Hina is basically this, and the funniest part is that a lot of times she's treated as not good because she's the "misfortune god". When in reality, she just takes misfortune out of other people.
Outside of Hina, you have people like Keine. Byakuren one can argue is good, but it's more she's trying to do good. She also has her past to deal with.
Eiki is one people say is good, but she's not. She's the most lawful neutral character in Touhou. She has told youkai to do more terrorizing because that's what youkai should do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44142715
>Byakuren
>trying to do good
Pardon my Taost, but where the heck does she ever?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44142715
>Eiki
>neutral
no Anon, encouraging youkai to terrorize more and supporting people living in squalor purely to keep the status quo is straight up Evil, but trying to justify itself
If anything, she's worse than Yukari since Yukari is at least honest with herself

[Anonymous No.]

>>44142779
>Evil
By human standards, but Eiki isn't exclusively a human judge. She judges each species from that species' own perspective. You know, objectively.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44142820
We're talking about what Eiki does on her free time, Anon
Those are the times when Eiki stands as Eiki, and not as a Yama, and it does not flatter her

[Anonymous No.]

>>44142844
There's no difference. Bidding someone to do what's the best for them isn't evil.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44142779
I will admit it's worse than Yukari when we look at it from a right-wrong perspective, but the main issue with Eiki is that her job isn't to view it like we do but more like "you are human, are you doing human things? If not, that's wrong." Some fridge logic on that if you think about it. She's more to keeping the status quo and judging if you're right or wrong by falling in the lines that have been set, or wrong for going against the grain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44141697
>The reason for this might be spelt out in a lore source I'm unaware from
Probably because I'm pretty sure there isn't one because this is just that anon's headcanon.
We know that the fairy maids are in Remilia's "employ", and that they don't really do any useful labor, so we can assume that Remilia just keeps them around to make the mansion look fancy. I don't believe that Patchouli is ever shown to care about the fairies at all.
>>44142625
>Alice is still not a fully fledged magician, as she still has to complete the "worms" ritual.
I've heard this claim before, but I don't think I've ever seen a primary source to back up the claim that Alice isn't a full magician yet. It's not stated in her game profiles, Akyuu's book, or SCoOW. She's only ever treated as a proper youkai magician to contrast her with the still-human Marisa. I think this is just a rumor that people have been assuming as fact without any evidence.
>>44142636
>Cirno's aberrant in her desire for power
Does Cirno even really have a "desire" for power? She's never depicted as training or seeking to improve herself; she's just convinced of her own strength and relies on her natural aptitude (which is significant) instead of planning out attacks, and occasionally feels more courageous than usual, which leads her to go on a big adventure. Even during HSiFS, she just took her newfound strength for granted, as if she's always been that strong.
Really, the Three Fairies of Light show a bigger desire for power than Cirno does, given that they wanted to cause an incident and were actively practicing their skills for the Great Fairy War. Cirno just plays around without a real goal in mind.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44143059
but when asked what humans should do, she believes they should just accept being food for youkai, rather than improving their lot
Worse yet, humans vastly outnumber youkai, so she doesn't even have the defense of backing the many over the few
Eiki is just a shitty little monster just like all the others, but pretends to be a saint

[Anonymous No.]

>>44141616
>>44142625
I did some research on the worms and I was quite shocked. The Wikipedia article on the three worms/corpses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Corpses)) is very close to my own understanding of them.
99.999% of humans have GI tract parasites in one form or another. They primarily eat simple carbohydrates/sugars, which of course are found mostly in grain-based foods and junk. Candida is a fungi rather than worms or bugs but functions similar to them. One of the most effective ways of killing them off is by eating "cleaner", which means no refined sugars or carbohydrates for a long period of time (The three corpses article mentions grains and cereals).
Some people I've talked to about this theorize that 95% of the ailments people have at the moment (like the various cancers that exist) spawn from overgrowth of these parasites/fungi. They severely compromise your immune system and are even capable of influencing your mind/emotions/cravings due to their highly evolved, parasitic natures. A family member administered diets to hundreds of people specifically to rid themselves of these things and all of them managed to get rid of chronic ailments, especially inflammation of the joints. My mom herself broke out of an age-related autoimmune disorder by not eating any grains or sugar for four months.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147044
Funny you bring that up. And I'm glad you did. I've been reading a lot about them myself and have tried to cut out all bread, even going so far as to avoid corn syrup (it's shit filler anyways). The first week I felt a whole hell of a lot better, but on the run broke and ate just the patty of a chicken burger at a drive thru and almost instantly had a messed up stomach. The joint thing is very interesting, as I have prior injuries and have been back in the gym to strengthen the muscles for it.

Maybe they did have a valid point for bigu. We should all try it and become Magicians, then meet up at the border before we get btfo by Yukari.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147197
The next part is figuring out the "abandon food" part. I think it may have a connection to the generation of Ki in the lower dantian, and I'm assuming it at some point becomes self-sustaining so the now-reborn "Magician" can take the final step in becoming a real one. Something like developing a magic core or energy reserve that self-perpetuates...

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147238
I don't believe there is such a thing as developing a magic core and/or energy reserve But I have seen people survive off of very little food

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147311
Like a glass of something to drink in the morning, then a light supper kind of thing, or?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147537
Yep.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147621
If that's all it takes, I'm already there. And I guarantee many, many others do the same.

Not subsisting off of mist or dew any time soon, though.

How do you feel about the whole yin/yang ki types that are said to be prevalent in natural foods? Like potatos, carrots, etc being more energetically charged with ki than say, an apple because it's further from the ground. It's apparently a big thing in not just Taoist ideology, but many Eastern trains of thought.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147732
>If that's all it takes, I'm already there. And I guarantee many, many others do the same.
How about with moderate physical activity and constant low-moderate body fat?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44143523
Wasn't Hakuna Matata a bit surprised in her Cirno dialogues?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44100460
Wouldn't pic related imply Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and the other 24 astronauts(12 walked on the moon) fought the Lunarians to a standstill or imprisoned them within their own capital? None of them died on the moon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44100460
What exactly happened to the crow here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147847
In general, or are you asking about me? If me, then yes, though if becoming a Magician is about being a scrawny weakling that can disintegrate a mountain like Patchy then no. And I'm six foot with broad shoulders. If anything I'd be aiming for muscle wizard, but anything to get the injured joint pain to fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147936
Yukari sent it to the Lunarian side of the moon to spy on them. It has impurity (being alive and having the ability to die one day) and the surface of the moon is basically trapped in a purity bubble. She sent it in on a recon mission as an expendable unit, telling it she would up its pay if it succeeds and does a better job than the other crow shikigami she was using.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44143606
You ignore that she tells Reimu that she should exterminate more youkai while telling Yuuka she should scare more humans.
She isn't a judge of humanity she's a judge of all and spends her free time lecturing people and youkai to become better so she doesn't have to judge them harshly. She is 100% a good person morally in all ways and genuinely doesn't want to judge human, youkai, nor others as guilty since she knows their punishments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44147859
She was surprised by a lot of things, but she ultimately concluded that Cirno's mentality was still just that of a fairy.
The weird parts were Cirno's extremely high latent potential, which was large enough that Cirno's body couldn't handle it (but it only surfaced because of Okina and Cirno shows no desire to realize her potential through her own efforts); her having the balls to challenge even powerful gods to a fight, when fairies are typically pretty cowardly (but despite her grand and intoxicating innocence, this was ultimately still just a fairy playing around without any higher goals); her ability to wield mental energy despite it being the antithesis of a fairy's nature (the weirdest part, and still unexplained); and finally, her skill at using her back door, which vastly eclipses that of other fairies (but since she clearly didn't put much thought into its use, it's obviously just raw talent like Reimu, instead of practice and intelligent usage).
Okina also believes that Cirno may have just been pretending to be retarded for a bit, but ultimately concluded after their second fight that Cirno really didn't have any idea what she was doing. It was more like fate smiling on her that things worked out, which still interests Okina.
Cirno probably didn't put much thought into using Larva's door other than thinking it might work out differently than using her own door again.

Unrelated, but whenever I see people draw older/more powerful Cirno, they always just draw her as a bigger ice fairy, and forget about the parts where full potential Cirno becomes much more broadly associated with nature, as shown through her changing from "a fairy who doesn't fit in with the flowers" as in PoFV, to one where flowers become a key part of her design in HSiFS. She's a weird little fairy, who, like Larva, has an aspect that's distinctly "not a fairy", but it's notably underutilized.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44149251
Fairy Wars 2 when?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44150382
19.8.
In the extra stage, Cirno goes up against Hecatia, seeking retribution after Clownpiece dropped two bombs on her house.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44149251
Cirno is actually the one that caused multiple ice age in Earth's history

[Anonymous No.]

Which breed of dog would each 2hu own?

[Anonymous No.]

Testing.

Not sure about dogs, but Sakuya would own a cat that she tries, and fails, to hide from the rest of the residents.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44149251
What could be Cirno power level of she stopped being a fairy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44154480
It would be beyond all attempts to measure it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44149251
finally some good fucking food for though

[Anonymous No.]

Hey, this is just a small theory, but I was reading 17.5's dialogue and I came to the thought that perhaps Mizuchi could have escaped Old Hell during the commotion with the petroleum.
I still feel however that it was a personal error from Satori and that's why she was so uneasy to talking about it at the start of CDS

[Anonymous No.]

>>44124362
>born from the light of the moon
doesn't mean Lunarians

like, really
Innately the moon is a phenomenon that induces madness and who knows what else. Also the Lunarians are invaders of the Moon, they're originally from the Earth

>>44147891
No. We don't know if any astronauts encountered Lunarians or Moon Rabbits. Junko suggests they did, but only as a rumor. There was a "war" but it's vague

>>44147936
I'm pretty sure it died from lack of oxygen. Breathing space is only in the capital, which it couldn't reach.

>>44141616
>The "worms", I assume, would have ties to the Sanshi three worms in Taoist belief
I'm technically responsible for this interpretation but I have good reason.
In older days this was called "abandon temper". I looked at the kanji though and it's... "abandon bugs". Now, the bug kanji supposedly CAN relate to temper, but that is a rare usage. More importantly if you indeed look at the Taoist idea then the idea of abandoning bugs (same kanji as three worms, so let's say worm) made sense to me. I edited the wiki using that reasoning and apparently no one disagreed.

I don't know who translated it as temper back in the day and why. The kanji is a very common one. Maybe they didn't understand the idea of three worms/corpses because it's not common knowledge to us + at the time, the concept wasn't in Touhou explicitly (it was introduced in SoPM by Miko)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44164472
>worms subject

That's actually really cool to know. Would you have any idea on the "abandon food" part? I'm not necessarily into Taoism, as much as I am trying to piece together the concepts of old in relation to health.


AndmayormaynotbetryingtobecomeaMagician......

[Anonymous No.]

>>44165065
I've always assumed it was just ZUN saying that's the first step, as he has established natural born magicians are born without the need to eat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44164472
>Innately the moon is a phenomenon that induces madness and who knows what else. Also the Lunarians are invaders of the Moon, they're originally from the Earth
And interestingly enough I've had people confirm this in real life. A close family member of mine was a cop for decades and he said that the crazy people (druggies, homeless, etc.) came out more during full moons. Can't say I've experienced anything myself though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44165370
I think technically both the "abandon" parts are the halfway point. You can learn magic, abandon the stuff, then become an actual "Magician" as opposed to a "human who is a magician". My thoughts on the "food" thing is that it could be related to Ki and developing some kind of self sustaining magic core that nourishes the new body, but the how and why is naturally left up to ambiguity. Maybe /x/ would know?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078642
Orange.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44165563
It's historically a thing all over the world. I've never researched it much, but it is prevalent throughout many cultures--the idea that the moon induces madness (lunacy)

[Anonymous No.]

>>44171616
She was probably freed from her seal in the endings
Also, threatening death is common but actually killing is rarely done. Yuuka talks about genocide yet to the best of our knowledge she kills no one in MS

[Anonymous No.]

>>44154480
Probably close to or on par with Pre-"Mystic Square Ending" Yuuka, since the Flower Master may herself be a former fairy based on her Seihou form. If you believe that theory, anyway. I do.

[Anonymous No.]

Have you ever heard of this?
Some parts of Gensokyo are stated to not have originally been part of the area of Gensokyo and to have been moved there later.
It's important to remember that Gensokyo does not start with the Great Hakurei Barrier neither with earlier barriers, but it was formed during a slow historical process in Japan, probably dating back at least to the 1000s
However, some areas that today make part of Gensokyo are not originally there. Most notably, this is claimed for the Forest of Magic. It's an interesting thing I don't see brought up much, and the whole Forest of Magic is an interesting place few people care about. However, knowing about this makes it easier to hunt for Gensokyo's real location; it doesn't need to be a perfect match to the real world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120757
probably Jo'on

[Anonymous No.]

>>44178963
>pic
It's just your good ol friend tectonic movement, anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
do the bughus know about each other?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44179327
yep, in pic's case it is! Good point. I actually got the wrong pic.

Though, what's the actual translation for the pool of blood Marisa mentions? Is it the same for PC98's lake of blood?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44179478
There are only two bugs in your pic the other ones are an arachnid and is a myriapoda.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078573
Spell cards are the only thing keeping her from turning into red mist

[Anonymous No.]

[P] is stored in the balls

[Anonymous No.]

>>44179478
One lives underground, another cannot even remember what they did a week ago, the third associates chiefly with fairies, and the last one is a filthy c*ntipede.
So no, there's no reason to believe any of them actually interact.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44178963
The Forest of Magic? Source? I don't remember anything like that.

I do know that the bamboo forest came in, SDM also, and of course the Mountain Lake

[Anonymous No.]

>>44186754
I thought the bamboo forest was just kinda there and Eientei was hidden in it for all the years, since no one was stupid enough to go rooting around in a forest you almost always get lost in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44186830
I looked around a lot to try to find corroboration for that and it's not clearly stated afaik. I could be missing something

The bamboo forest was called the Takakusa Gun and was part of Tottori, neither of which are anywhere close to Gensokyo (among the Yatsugatake mountain ranges). Pixiv dictionary and the Touhouwiki say there's a rumor that a tsunami brought the land to Gensokyo, and further I saw one Japanese person saying that based on when Takakusa was "lost" historically that should've been around 500 years ago (Gensokyo is much older).

Problem is Eirin has been in that forest for like 1000 years and claimed that it was in Gensokyo when she and Kaguya went into hiding.

Basically it's very unclear and if there are clear statements anywhere I don't know where they are

[Anonymous No.]

>>44186830
>>44187119
>further I saw one Japanese person saying that based on when Takakusa was "lost" historically that should've been around 500 years ago (Gensokyo is much older).
Mixed two people actually. One noted the place being absorbed, the other noted Yukari's youkai expansion project of 500 years ago--the Great Hakurei Barrier's precursor that still exists and courts forgotten things to Gensokyo.

Anyway I found the page. Here's the thing about the bamboo forest being not native to Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>44120757
Aya

[Anonymous No.]

>>44089058
>which is the character that is canonically the most evil
my bets on seiga kaku

[Anonymous No.]

>>44191674
>t.Momiji

[Anonymous No.]

>>44135282
Well they have a respawn feature.

[Anonymous No.]

Moe Moe Gee?
Mom E Chi?
Moe Me Gee?
Moe Itchy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44196960
Are you having a stroke?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44196960
Mom E Gee

[Anonymous No.]

You know that theory about Renko and Yumemi being related in some way? I am nearly 100% convinced that it's real at this point. There is so much evidence supporting it that I am legit flabbergasted that I've seen no one mention some of it.

Like the red doll on the cover of CoSD, I've seen people mention it before, but no one seems to have pointed out that its hairstyle is nearly identical to Yumemi's, ponytail and all. Nor has anyone mentioned its near fucking identical pose to Renko.
Why a doll anyway? Perhaps it's a reference to PoDD's cover, the characters on it are plush toys according to ZUN. Also, how has Yumimi Mix being the likely origin of Yukari's gap design not raise a giant red flag? Did ZUN go back and play it for shits and giggles?
Did he already have the idea of a character like Yukari while making PoDD? All I know is that Ghostly Field Club came out less than five months after PCB and given Maribel and Yukari's name relation, its safe to assume that they and Renko were designed at roughly the same time.
Meaning there is a rather sizable chance that ZUN was playing Yumimi Mix while designing Renko.

Like come on, Dr. Latency's Freak Report is about Maribel and Renko creating the exact same pseudo-scientific "Magic is real!" papers that got Yumemi Laughed out of the academy for. It also contains this beautiful and totally subtle line
"To Renko Usami, Merry appeared to be a scholar of truth, who would open the eyes of all the delusion-spouting physicists.".

Maybe this is all common knowledge on the Japanese side of things? This isn't even half the shit I could be talking about these two.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44204577
>I am legit flabbergasted that I've seen no one mention some of it.
It's because people just don't care about PC98. It's unlikely to be relevant ever again, there's no new material, there will never be a resolution, so we're all tired of discussing the same old points.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44204577
Whaaat? I never noticed that red doll, damn!
And yeah, it's bizarre. In a lore thread some months ago, there were people who just shot down this like there were no evidence. Like, if there's one connection between PC98 and today that is easy to make, it's this one. I really don't know why this gets some people riled up.
Also, people just don't seem to like discussing PC98 stuff in lore threads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44204577
I think it's dumb to arbitrarily connect characters and say "OH X MUST BE Y" like people who try to guess "who the Hakurei god is".

Why can't Yumemi just be Yumemi and Renko be a similar character? They don't share a physical appearance and Yumemi is younger iirc and a professor

Renko is a student.

[Anonymous No.]

I read somewhere that in PC98 era it's stated that Reimu's mother was an oni and that's why her orbs can kill her, was i reading delusions? Does this ever get retconned on windows era?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44205069
that is a complete lie
but there's some interesting detail about Reimu in the PC98 manuals

[Anonymous No.]

>>44205146
What kind of detail?

[Anonymous No.]

>>44205764
From HRtP's manual:
>Reimu has trained
herself to attack with ofuda, her spirit power, and martial arts.
This is one of the few pieces of lore that have ever been retconned. In IaMP's manual it's stated that Reimu isn't good at martial arts.
>Currently, she is the only person at the shrine.
Many people don't know this, but Reimu actually captured Genjii in the interval between HRtP and SoEW. How he has so much knowledge about the Hakurei is unknown.
>(talking about the YinYang Orb) A mysterious orb with an unnatural amount of spiritual power. Perhaps a
soul dwells within?
Misumaru's lore connects so well with PC98 lore it's uncanny

[Anonymous No.]

>>44205764
From HRtP's manual:
>Reimu has trained herself to attack with ofuda, her spirit power, and martial arts.
This is one of the few pieces of lore that have ever been retconned. In IaMP's manual it's stated that Reimu isn't good at martial arts.
>Currently, she is the only person at the shrine.
Many people don't know this, but Reimu actually captured Genjii in the interval between HRtP and SoEW. How he has so much knowledge about the Hakurei is unknown.
>(talking about the YinYang Orb) A mysterious orb with an unnatural amount of spiritual power. Perhaps a
soul dwells within?
Misumaru's lore connects so well with PC98 lore it's uncanny

[Anonymous No.]

>>44204983
>I think it's dumb to arbitrarily connect characters and say "OH X MUST BE Y" like people who try to guess "who the Hakurei god is".
I'm not trying to claim I know what relation they have, just that one likely exists. This isn't a small one off coincidence that people took off and ran with, its a bunch of things spanning well over a decade at this point.

>>44204619
Normally I would agree with your sentiment here, but this is one of the only examples of something from PC98 being referenced rather consistently. It's not like this is exclusive to Renko, Sumireko is a whole other can of worms that I haven't even gone into.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44205929
Is clear Zun actually put some thougth behind it and looked back all the way into pc98 for it, he still remenbers in his own way

[Anonymous No.]

>>44210411
>I'm not trying to claim I know what relation they have, just that one likely exists.
pardon then, the majority of time anyone brings them up it's "ARE THEY THE SAME PERSON??" and indeed like the "Who's the god though?" comments I feel like such talk is just way off the mark

[Anonymous No.]

>>44205929
>In IaMP's manual it's stated that Reimu isn't good at martial arts
Honestly being trained doesn't mean she'd be good at it. It never says how she trained and how she carried it to the present. For all we know she stopped training at one point and start to rely on her magic power alone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44097150
That's her PCB profile which was retconned. Chen now is completely separate from the bakeneko she possesses and it is a distinct being. The retcon came from the same article that totes the "Ran is the shiki, the fox is someone else" tidbit that people cling onto. Yes it was written by ZUN and is the canon representation of them, but it doesn't make it any less retarded. I argued the topic to death elsewhere and here's the relevant primary info to make you own conclusions.
If you have PCB, open up characters.txt. キャラ設定.txt being the original. Then compare it to the article https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Yukari_Yakumo,_Ran_Yakumo,_and_Chen

[Anonymous No.]

>>44214859
The sooner you accept that Gensokyo is dark as fuck the happier you'll be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44214930
Yeah, the protagonists are a bunch of cunts who ruin the days of completely unrelated bystanders

[Anonymous No.]

>>44214859
>retarded
Is it? It makes perfect sense to me. Shikigami are separate entities, but since they are symbiotic (or parasitic, if you prefer), they may take on the host's characteristics. Or not. Chen's is clearly a lower-grade shiki that projects the host's personality because, I am guessing, there's no real cause to modify it.

Shiki-Ran is more distinct, though she still manifests some of the underlying kitsune's preferences, as touched on in the same article.

[Anonymous No.]

>>44078757
Reimu also doesn't exist, because she floats away from "being existing".