Cheating Detective Satori

[Anonymous No.]

Cool chapter.

https://comic-walker.com/contents/detail/KDCW_AM21201276010000_68/

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
>She was in Kyuko all this time
Many anons here got this right. Also, Marisa once again is being thrown around. At least for once she attacked back

[Anonymous No.]

Local witch has been bullied too much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842808
Just wait for next week when Flan destroys her Master Spark and then Mizuchi joins the fun abuse session

[Anonymous No.]

*Month, I mean. Damn why must these manga drop just once a month.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
"le Flan is not edgy" posers once again in shambles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842825
I hope not, that page spread was too cool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
for the moment, it seems that Flan necessary have to maintain visual contact for her to use her hability.
she could have destroy the hakkero, but searching the eye when is about to fire the master spark means she could be blinded for looking at the high luminosity object.
well, see you all next month

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
Is this the first time we see any 2hu battle actually let loose in any of the print works where they are fighting for their lives? Fights don't really happen in the manga, either they are off-screened, mostly for show, or just a curb stomp by usually Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842871
We dragon ball now

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
It's crazy how this is an official page. Everything Flan has done and said has been chuuni.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43843015
Magicannon "Final Spark"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZfGrsaS_I&list=PL4F2019BBF62F9401&index=19

[Anonymous No.]

kakkoii

[Anonymous No.]

>>43843027
We all thought Remilia was the chuuni but Flan has been the true chuuni all along

[Anonymous No.]

>>43843170
I guess fanon can blind us. Off the top of my head Remi pretty much always acts childish in official manga and games.

[Anonymous No.]

Flan is playing too rough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
Marisa fans in fucking shambles

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842871
https://youtu.be/7eCeQxaaaqk

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
So it seems Yukari is the one who made the barrier. Mizuchi was in Kyouko as predicted but I'm not sure why she tried escaping so quickly. I figured she'd head towards the Mausoleum beneath the Temple next to knock it out without having to come back to the Temple to get there. Hopefully she can escape otherwise I'd be pretty disappointed in her title.

[Anonymous No.]

Flan dealt more damage to Marisa than the villain did kek

[Anonymous No.]

>>43843862
don't worry, satori fans are about to join them

[Anonymous No.]

>>43845978
Satorin has a plan this time. She will utterly humiliate that edgy grimsokyo spirit!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43845978
Holy shit, they actually appeared on screen in their own manga. I can't believe it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846000
the last time satori was in a page was chapter 23 before this
we're on chapter 28 now

[Anonymous No.]

>>43844603
Villain's problem is with youkais, I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846000
This is like the first time they showed up together too, like they met before in eientei, but that was off screen

[Anonymous No.]

BRING ME SHITZUCHI

[Anonymous No.]

Will Flan share a panel with anyone from the myouren or will she be ported out right after beating up Marisa when Mizuchi inevetably escapes by entering Senkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846119
What's her plan really I'm kinda curious

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
So can we put down Marisa as a super human now? A regular human would have been snapped in half if they thrown into a tree at that force.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846456
she's now a super bitch, because everyone beats the shit out of her for no reason

[Anonymous No.]

https://mangadex.org/chapter/0078bada-0961-41fa-806b-d3c7d4d0ccc2

It's up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43844489
Surrounded by the barrier, found by Satori and the temple group is aware of her and probably on their way... Now ir surely is the time to prove the title.

[Anonymous No.]

Reimubros...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846143
Getting caught.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846456
I think any main human character would have to have some level of extra protection to survive in Gensokyo. The Grimoire of Usami made it pretty clear you don't want to get hit as a normal human and the villagers are already considered tougher than outsiders.

[Anonymous No.]

damn Aya

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846750
Boy, ZUN is not holding back when it comes to showing his daughters true colors.

[Anonymous No.]

Alright, that's a great plan and all. But why does Marisa need to be beaten up? I get it's the rule of law, but do they REALLY need to do that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846802
She's the Vegeta of Touhou.
She needs to get beaten up so the situation seems dire when Reimu(Goku) makes her appearance and saves the day.

[Anonymous No.]

I love seeing Marisa get bullied and abused in every chapter!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846875
We know ZUN

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846820
Nah, if she was a Vegeta, she would be responsible for causing half of the issues. She's really more like a Yamcha, who gets no respect whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846912
sounds about right

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846820
If she is the Vegeta who is her Piccolo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846949
Piccolo is Sanae because she is green

[Anonymous No.]

It's cute seeing Flandre hoping she doesn't have to blow Marisa up

[Anonymous No.]

>>43847004
Give me my daily dose (touhou version) doc

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846000
Wonder what Satori's plan is to catch Mizuchi? Didn't she pass out when she read her mind because of all the negative emotions Mizuchi's carrying?

[Anonymous No.]

Her time to shine!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846143
nothing, she's just accepting her impending death

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846143
Step 1: Prevent Mizuchi from escaping via the graveyard by causing a huge ruckus there. They already know Mizuchi can't manipulate humans she possesses and can only be 'carried' by them until she passes her onto some body of water or to someone else via a drink, so having Flandre attack Marisa is just to give Mizuchi an excuse to fuck off through the main entrance.
Step 2: Have Byakuren pretend to collapse, indicating they know she's there and to help weed out who is or isn't actually possessed by how everyone else would react. Mizuchi would have to run toward the main group and be under extremely close scrutiny by the head of the temple and by a paranoid Reimu, so she'd have no choice but to fuck off through the main entrance.
Step 3: Have the entire temple surrounded by vampire mist to prevent any other avenues of escape except for the main entrance.
Step 4: Confront Mizuchi at the main entrance by distracting her with Satori while having someone else ambush her from behind (probably Yukari or something).

Basically, the entire plan is to funnel Mizuchi into a trap by putting her into a situation where she'll reveal herself and be too distracted beating the shit out of Satori to actually run away while tightening the noose around her neck in the process.

[Anonymous No.]

I hate the le epic psycho rage faces of Mizuchi. They just remind me of the complete trashfire that is Kengan Omega.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
>only two chapters in and I already got bored of her
Such a shit character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846912
why would Yamcha get respect?

At least Marisa actually is the hero on rare occasion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43848076
>probably yukari
the only characters unaccounted for right now are yukari and orin (as well as those other myouren temple members that ZUN just apparently forgot exists? seriously where's murasa or mamizou?)
you know, back when they showed satori and reimu actually waiting for mokou to wake up after her possession, I figured she was going to joining the mizuchibusters only for her to immediately disappear from the story forever

[Anonymous No.]

>>43849376
Oh shit, that's actually a good question. Murasa's also a ghost (phantom), and she specializes in literally drowning people. Maybe the plan is to lure Mizuchi into a body of water near the entrance so Murasa can keep her pinned down? After all, there's no way a ghost could possess a ghost, right? Byakuren must know where Murasa went, considering she didn't find her not being present with Shou, Nazrin, and Ichirin to be odd.

It's possible that the mist is the result of Mamizou and her tanuki rather than Flandre's doing. Only Mamizou would have the numbers and manpower to deploy enough magic bullshit to encircle the entirety of the temple.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43849376
I want to know what Eirin is doing at this point. You'd think she'd take action because Mizuchi already threatened Kaguya, but she decided to just sit on her hands or something.
Sanae should be out and about again too, by now. And honestly, they should've just asked Komachi for help, since this should be her area of expertise.

Really, ZUN's unwillingness to kill characters makes it impossible to do a story like this. Mizuchi only putting people to sleep for a while just means that the protagonists would gain more and more allies as the story progresses, but since that would obviously make a huge mess and/or instantly resolve the plot, the characters from past chapters all need to quietly leave for no real reason, which is fucking stupid.
And we *still* don't actually know the main villain's goals or motivations, other than her strongly disliking youkai. This story drags on and on without ever going anywhere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43849376
can't wait for the only other (windows canon) vengeful spirit to just not show up at all when this drags on to the divine mausoleum
seriously, he can't be planning to put mizuchi and tojiko in the same arc and not have them interact at all, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43849664
You need to have a motive to not kill characters when they are at the mercy of an evil antagonist like this one.
Take Chrollo from Hunter x Hunter. He either gets close to the victims through deception or tortures them to fulfill the conditions of his book, then leaves them powerless but alive. This is because he needs them alive for his steal ability to work.
Unless Mizuchi has a similar skill that requires the possessed to be left alive afterwards then none of this makes any sense. If she does, then her actions become somewhat understandable. I do not consider ZUN to be a very good writer so I dobut it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43849872
Only thing that would make a lot of sense regarding Mizuchi only knocking youkai out would be if she actually were an ancestral Hakurei or something. It'd fall in line with Reimu's tendency to talk about exterminating youkai all the time but never actually killing any of them, but I don't think ZUN would allow someone to write a 2hu character that expands on the Hakureis to such a degree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43849376
>murasa or mamizou
You forgot a member. Joon. She’s still undergoing her rehabilitation at the Myouren Temple currently. True it is possible she isn’t there at this current time. But the same could be said for Murasa and Mamizou could it not?

>>43849753
I fucking hate the fact that this shitty manga might be the only time Mononobe no Futo has an actual non-cameo appearance in an official Touhou manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43845978
When will the artist get better? The art sucks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850047
>joon
assuming this still takes place in 2019 when the manga started (also when 17.5 was supposed to release, a year after 17), joon should be in former hell running a hot spring tour business with shion while dressed as an arab
there's never been an indication that she remained at the temple for long following 15.5, which has the final ending stating that she went back to robbing people, but stuck to the ones who could afford it

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846456
Flandre's obviously not there to kill, or else Marisa would be dead by now. Flandre's being used by Yukari according to a previous chapter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846750
I've never seen someone hate their main character as much as ZUN. Been doing almost nothing but humiliating her for the past 15 years or so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850306
reimu started at a level where you're supposed to expect her to only really be worrying about herself
marisa on the other hand is often spoken of like she's the shit, only for (since about...UFO or so) her to be shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850306
I think ZUN just wants to make a series filled with really cute looking girls, who deep down inside, are quite ugly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850306
It's gap moe! Cute girls with uncute personalities are extra cute!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850386
>>43850399
I'm just saying it wasn't always like this. You guys remember back in EoSD when Reimu was so laidback, savvy and cool throughout it all that she even plays along with Remilia's lies just for the sake of fun final boss theatrics? That Reimu is long fucking gone, she's the polar opposite of that now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850595
She isn't 20 years old anymore.
She is 30+ year old miko who now has leeches crashing her pad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850636
>who now has leeches crashing her pad.
Meanwhile, at the Hakurei Shrine...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850637
>"Aunn, you had better not have eaten all the valentine's day chocolates I got from the boys in the village"

The ensuing mess took multiple weeks to clean up, and certain corners of the shrine still smell shitty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850651
>The ensuing mess
Is that because Aunn died from eating chocolate or because she ate all the chocolate?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850595
seems like the same old asshole to me

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850668
>filename
Lmao

I was going for death, since I have irrational hatred for aunn and her stupid haircut, preceded by projectile diahorroea / vomiting, but her just eating a fuckload of chocolate in the hot sun with her hands would do as well.

[sage No.]

>>43850595
Long term shrine maiden life hasn't given her the chance to take it easy anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850704
>irrational hatred for aunn and her stupid haircut
Aunn is VERY cute and I'm glad she's playable unlike the other canidhus.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850686
How nice of Sakuya giving Meiling pity points, while still calling her a useless POS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850651
Surely not even Aunn would take Reimu's sole piece of chocolate?
That she received as part of a prank.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850686
Yet again the cute dumbass is unfairly treated.
Justice for room!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850595
I checked her lines and it wasn't any different compared to the modern games. Still the same crimson slasher.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850710
She kinda switches between being easy going in a game to a cunt in other games, she's pretty chill so far in 19 demo

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850386
Besides the fact that she's taken care of Marisa in past manga, he had no issues showing how extremely worried Reimu was about her here, but then she suddenly stops caring when she hears the ghost is coming for her, but then inmediately loses that fear because of Yukari's tears and goes back to tackling the incident? And she shows zero reaction when she meets Marisa again even though Reimu was happy when she found out Yuyuko of all people was safe. So I guess Reimu cares about Yukari and Yuyuko more than Marisa? What?

I swear ZUN is just writing this story as he goes along. This is fanfic-tier levels of inconsistent, schizophrenic writing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850686
Anon, this isn't from eosd's release you know, this is only a few years old.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850771
to be fair, it seems like reimu gets more easily annoyed in newer games because the incidents keep getting less straightforward
imagine EoSD reimu in UM. She'd probably go along with Chimata calling her a robber and demand all the cards for herself, while UM reimu is so pissed off about it that all she really says is that she's too furious to care
that said, UDoALG reimu still seems pretty much like her EoSD self, threatening to tame marisa and making deep cut shmup references against Seiran

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850771
Of course it's different. The exact same situation I mentioned happens with Utsuho in SA yet instead of playing along like she did with Remilia she just gets angry and mocks the very idea of doing it, like she's a completely different person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850787
CDS is definitely his worst manga.
He really should just stick to his SoL stuff which gives us some lessons on old Japanese folklore and customs.
I mean, there really isn't any detectiving going on now since we know who the culprit is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850841
I still think that this manga has had a whole lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know about
personally I think ZUN was planning to wrap it up at Eientei during the first artist's run because she was struggling. This is primarily because the last reimu chapter of her run has reimu make a big point (to herself, no less) about not being scared and hiding anymore, but the second the second artist starts, she's scared and hiding at Eientei. I think once the decision to continue had been made (probably because ZUN already had come up with Mizuchi's design), he had to start coming up with ways to keep things going since Mizuchi couldn't be stopped at Eientei anymore, so she just slips away easily and off we go to youkai mountain.
It's also around this point that marisa starts jobbing, probably because he originally intended for her to have accidentally carried Mizuchi around but then redeem herself in a fight at the end, only to have to extend it and suddenly have marisa without anything to do because her 'value' in this story was just being an unwitting patsy for mizuchi to hijack

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850841
I'm just going to say it, I think SSiB was the most interesting manga, since I really don't care about kosuzu.
Seeing Yukari, Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya and Remilia all be totally mogged by the watatsuki's is interesting, since Reimu having total plot armor is boring after a while.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850841
I think what differentiates ZUN manga from fanmade doujins is the amount of focus on the characters. For ZUN, usually the latest incident takes priority over the characters, hence why they rarely change and the status quo is preserved, because he likes showing off japanese mythology more than anything apparently. For fans, they care a lot more about character interactions while an incident plot takes more of a background position.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850889
SSiB was good until they hit the moon, and then it goes straight to shit.
The MCs getting beaten is one thing, but that sad excuse for a danmaku fight was unforgivable.
Probably why we don't see danmaku battles in any of the manga to be honest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850686
Reimu has definitely changed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850686
Reimu has definitely changed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850744
I think they just mixed up Patchouli and Meilings score.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850783
>>43850771
>>43850686
>>43850399
Miko, whose ability can read people's desires, said that deep down, Reimu actually wishes for a harmonious world where conflicts can be settled peacefully. It ties in with her befriending youkai and having drinks with them despite saying mean things about them. She's probably keeping up appearances for the sake of her job and it might be related to how she was raised to hate them, only to find out that they weren't that bad once you get chummy with them. Sadly ZUN will probably never delve deep into this, he's very keen on keeping the status quo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43851334
>he's very keen on keeping the status quo.
Which is getting a bit weird because not being long lived is a big part of the human characters and Reimu / Marisa's arcs and ZUN keeps a 1 for 1 time frame with the real world which means the main characters should be at least 33 years old by now. Sumireko tops all them, she should be 24 by now but she is still a high school student..

[Anonymous No.]

>>43851407
please understand, AQ will die if time actually passes

[Anonymous No.]

>>43851480
AQ should spend her last year of life solely on fucking me senseless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43851334
If the status quo is not kept everybody dies and the surviving humans lose their powers so i makes sense to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43851334
Reimu loves throwing parties at her shrine, and does not block anyone from attending them, youkai, human, or anything in between. That is probably her real personality when she isn't playing the Miko part.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846456
She magic, don't got to explain shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850306
I want Reimu to let loose and Fantasy Heaven at least once to show all those mouthy Yooks a healthy fear of the Hakurei god and why she's the incident solver and not them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43849664
Pretty sure Alice is dead, I don't think she's coming back.

>>43850889
SSiB was great especially if you read it alongside CiLR. It provides a lot of characterization for the characters but I think a lot of people don't understand the plot all to well. It's about Yukari's reaction to having aliens in Gensokyo after IN and teaching them who's in charge. Whilst she seems defeated, she was the one who orchestrated the whole thing for a bottle of Lunarian sake to flaunt at a party in the end outsmarting the Brain of the Moon and Lunarian security.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842777
"And then she shot kameha- masterspark at you from under? That reminds me of my first battle with Kakarot!"

Though, what's up with Reimu and Marisa being consistent failures throughout every canon manga?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43853000
>what's up with Reimu and Marisa being consistent failures throughout every canon manga?
Reimu's entire thing is she doesn't really try very hard and things naturally play out to a peaceful conclusion. If she tries to force something or puts in effort, she usually does worse because she's no longer Floating. Reimu's ability to Float is why she usually fucks up and fails in most manga, because the majority of the time she's proactive in doing things, so naturally they don't play out in her favor. It's only when Reimu assuredly knows she's right and doesn't have to think very hard about the consequences of her actions that she can get shit done without breaking a sweat.

As far as Marisa goes, she's just naturally unlucky. Or rather, she's lucky enough to always make it through by the skin of her teeth, but otherwise a lot of her misfortune is usually the result of just bad timing or being caught up in the aftermath of Reimu's flow and getting the brunt of bad luck thrown in her face that probably would've been directed toward Reimu instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43846750
cool with the tengu prejudice, hijiri.
as expected of a Buddhist...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43853298
Okay anon, but why is it that way? Not that ZUN couldn't just exclude them from the story or make them more neutral, but he constantly writes them to fail and be the ones in the wrong, and every time an situation is solved they're treated as useful idiots to youkai.
Only times I can think of Reimu not being completely shat on is when she got to exorcise a regular ghost, put up a fight against lunarians and when she beat Kasen off screen. Though even when she exorcised that ghost, it was written in a sense that she never gets proper jobs like that, she lost to lunarians and had to get paraded around in capital and became scared of Kasen at the end of that manga.
In this manga ZUN used "Reimu's serious now" cliffhanger two times just to have her revert to coward right away in the next chapter, making her seem extra pathetic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43853506
Actually, she's pretty brave when she threatens drunk old men and kills innocent vengeful spirits, let's not forget that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43848076
>They already know Mizuchi can't manipulate humans she possesses
Did she not posess and manipulate Sakuya? Where is it implied she can't control humans?
Sanae and Mokou are other examples, but granted they aren't really human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850889
>Plot Armor
I don't know, it feels like most of the manga undersell Reimu's abilities. I like how WaHH depicts her as being an expert at combat even against the literal forces of Hell who can nevertheless be put under by food poisoning. It establishes her strengths and weaknesses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854179
That's more or less my point, Reimu can totally mogg anyone/everyone but POSSIBLY Marisa (on one of her good days), no contest.
It's just not all that interesting if the crux of everything is just her beating someone up, and the story is her getting there.

SSiB however, probably because the series *could* have ended around that time, wasn't afraid to give her an enemy she couldn't defeat in a headfirst fight.

The point of the manga was to show that even though (Yukari) couldn't directly fight the moonies, she could still annoy them enough to be taken seriously, and Reimu has a weird relationship with Yukari (At least before ZUN forgot she existed for a bit).

>>43852343
I thought Eirin was more or less going along with it?
I know she was ready to kill patchy surrounding the "rocket", but Remilia literally told everyone what she was doing.
It sound like she was ready to do something up until she realized that Yukari wasn't actually going to hurt anyone with her scheming, and then kept her nose out of it.

It's been a hot minute since i've read it though, so take that with a pinch of salt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854799
>I thought Eirin was more or less going along with it?
Nope, she shat her granny diapers at the end when she saw what Yukari did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854828
Wasn't that mostly because of what Yuyuko did.
The brain of the moon, defeated by a simple feint.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854857
Anon, who do you think sent Yuyuko there? Yukari is the one who knowingly flaunted her victory to Eirin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854828
Did she?
And don't you talk about young maidens like that
I think I'm going to reread it, I don't think I was paying all that much attention at the time...

43854857
Not me btw

[Anonymous No.]

>>43853506
>became scared of Kasen at the end of that manga.
Huh? No, she was nervous that the sentient arm that kept scratching the air on its own would do something to the visitors admiring it up close, but then it said none of her fears came to pass. Reimu was actually happy that Kasen came back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43853506
>ZUN used "Reimu's serious now" cliffhanger two times just to have her revert to coward right away in the next chapter, making her seem extra pathetic.
ZUN has more beer than blood at this point so he probably just forgot, would explain why we always notice character inconsistencies in every godddamn chapter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854873
I'm honestly surprised that Eirin is still so smug when she messes more often than not.
She thinks she's a perfect genius, but she never even considered that switching out the moon would piss off the youkai, that Yukari would use two distractions to deal with two emissaries, or that Kaguya's clever plan to deal with the vengeful spirit actually came from the vengeful spirit itself. And that's not even talking about the mistake that led her to flee to Earth in the first place.
Her only major plan that worked out well was her scheme to deal with Junko's invasion, and even then she did not account for Hecatia's involvement and she basically got lucky that things worked out in the end.

[Anonymous No.]

a bit unrelated but did Reimu ever call Aya a liar? I'm still bothered by her saying "Tengu don't lie" in FS, and i only remember her complaining about Aya writing shitty things about her, rather than calling her out on fake news

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854957
I think her whole deal is being unimagineably intelligent & knowledgeful, but being a total dumbass when accounting for human error.
It's fairly common anyway, smart people tend to assume that other people are as smart as they.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855055
Aya doesn't lie. She may incite negative reactions or developments just to have something to write about, but she doesn't lie.

No, not even about Byakuren. Don't forget that Byakuren's not-so-secretly a giant hypocrite. Nothing Aya wrote about the Myouren Temple was a lie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855087
if you try and claim this isn't lying I'm sending nitori to fist your ass

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855087
There's literally a whole book about nothing but Aya lying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855078
Huh? I don't see how that applies for her fuckups in SSiB and FDS, that's just her being straight up wrong and outsmarted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855109
That was never published in-universe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855087
fuck off Aya, even IF Byakuren was a hypocrite. her sending assassins after drunk people is definitely a lie

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855104
>>43855109
You're forgetting the part where the whole thing was Lunarian manipulation and that it never saw the light of day in the setting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855123
the reason it was never published was nothing to do with the lies contained within it though
aya didn't publish it because hecatia spooked her about the lunarians using it
she would have published it with all the lies included had hecatia not done the interview

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855138
And it was never published. So Aya has yet to lie in her publications.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855131
>You're forgetting the part where the whole thing was Lunarian manipulation
???
The only "manipulation" was Hecatia scaring the shit out of Aya into not publishing it. All of those lies are Aya's and she was 100% willing to publish before being scared off, she even explains why she was lying: to compete with Hatate.
>>43855156
Not how it works, a lie is a lie, the definition has nothing to do with it being published or not, especially since we know she had full intention of publishing it right until the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855156
nice goalpost moving
so tengu DO lie, but might not publish the lies for unrelated reasons

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855170
>Not how it works, a lie is a lie
We're talking about lying within the confines of the setting, though. Reimu says Tengu don't lie, and Aya hasn't lied as far as Reimu and other Gensokyans are concerned. We know she nearly lied from the meta perspective, but nobody in-universe does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855087
Tell me about these buddhist ghost assassins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855182
>We're talking about lying within the confines of the setting, though
No, we're talking about how this >>43855087 post said "Aya doesn't lie", period.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855202
In reply to a question about Reimu claiming Aya doesn't lie. Follow the convo.

[Anonymous No.]

>Aya: Now then, I've got a whole bunch of pictures. Should I be writing the newspaper now? Hm hm, what's with this picture? A pure white picture where the subject is hidden by the danmaku...That's a lot of pictures where you can't make anything out of. Meh, I can always make up the content as much as I want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855188
It's an exaggeration, but not a lie. The ghost was the effect of one of Myouren Temple's human devotees (who are infamously depressed and abused on the temple grounds) having excessive regrets about consuming alcohol because of the Temple's teachings. So, technically, the ghost WAS the Myouren Temple's fault.

I can't speak on "assassin," but I feel that may have been a liberty taken by the TL. I'd have to see the raw.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855131
That was just Hecatia's own biases speaking. The idea that it's all some Lunarian scheme is just as much fake news as anything else in that book.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855209
Irrelevant, the post made a wrong claim regardless of what it was replying to, nit to mention it would still be wrong. Reimu never said "tengu don't lie in their publications", she said "tengu don't lie", period, much like you did, so nothing changes

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855234
>she said "tengu don't lie"
Because they don't, as far as she knows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855227
You're trying way too hard to defend Aya. It's not an assassin sent by the myouren temple, so Aya's lying, simple as that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855234
Can you dissociate and understand that a character's perspective isn't your own? Yes, from the perspective of the meta reader, we know Aya either lied or almost lied, whichever way you want to spin it. But from Reimu's perspective, she has no reason to believe that Tengu lie, because she hasn't seen evidence to the contrary. She hasn't read the Alt Facts book because it wasn't published in-universe. Her perspective is not the same as yours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855245
It's not a lie, anon. It's a creative truth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855245
Again, I'm not claiming anything about the term used, because I haven't seen the raw. Everything else is either factually or technically true, however.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855238
Which is wrong, so nothing changes. Also I'm pretty sure she claims tengu aren't to be trusted later on when Aya informs her of something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855255
Except the post had nothing to do with Reimu's perspective and was making blanket statements about Aya not lying, hence why it proceeded to defend Aya after it was pointed out that she does lie instead of saying right away that the post was only referring to Reimu's perspective.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855267
Boy, how desperate do you have to be to challenge the translation? Guess you can't trust any other piece of Touhou material because the translation might be off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855298
>Except the post had nothing to do with Reimu's perspective
It was replying to a question about Reimu's claims.

Look, I don't even like Aya, but you've got to understand that the reason Reimu says Tengu don't lie is because, from her point of view, they don't. We know Aya's a piece of shit, we know about Alt Facts, but Reimu doesn't. So, in regards to Reimu's claims, they aren't un-true. From a certain point of view, as another character once said.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855313
>It was replying to a question about Reimu's claims
Please read the rest of the post this time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855308
>Guess you can't trust any other piece of Touhou material because the translation might be off.
Well, yes. Remember, "Bitch, get out of the way"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855329
Except that line actually stands out from the usual style of dialogue, especially since Remi also swears in that game, whereas this doesn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855308
A sardonic reminder that there is an entire group of /v/ posters convinced of a certain factoid because of an erroneous translation in the Touhou wiki's script of a PC-98 game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855255
Even from Reimu's perspective it doesn't make sense because she also says that any fault the tengu make is an honest mistake, like what the fuck? She herself is a first hand victim of Aya being dishonest like when the latter tries to make shit up about her in CoLA exactly like a tabloid would. The only explanation I can think of is that she's simply lying to defend her butt-buddy Aya from Marisa's accusation much like Reimu also defended Nitori in that same manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855055
Yes.
>>43855182
lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855478
>erroneous translation in the Touhou wiki's script of a PC-98 game
What's the story behind that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855776
I don't have the full context, so take what I say with a bucketful of salt, but there seems to be a group of (possibly tourist) posters on /v/ bizarrely obsessed with Meira's character. One of the theories I've seen them posit more than once is that Reimu's remark on Meira's stink suggests the latter is a scorned member of the Hakurei clan, attempting to retrieve said clan's power, part of which is always smelling nice (as per SoEW's ending).

The problem is the original JP script merely mentions a smell (匂う) with no real positive or negative connotations. The colloquialism used in the English script ("Something stinks") makes sense as a cliche westerners are used to, but it's taken literally to support a far-fetched theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855634
Aya is only lying in the sense she doesn't know the full picture to a lot of her stories. Her reporting is honest in the way that she writes what she believes and sees. So her articles aren't lying about her reports but the information she sees or believes in can very much be a lie. Eiki has talked about this in their confrontation in PoFV how her articles warp the truth of the situations and cause new incidents to occur because of this.

[Anonymous No.]

Hey you guys remember when Reimu was noted to have super intuition? One that was shown to be even more accurate than Yukari's? How come that hasn't showed up yet here where it would be at its most useful? Actually, when's the last time it even showed up?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855478
it's just one guy
>>43855857
the big 'meira is a hakurei' theory they're running with is that you can see something that kind of vaguely maybe possible looks like the yin-yang orb symbol on meira's vest (I don't really understand why this would be the hakurei family's symbol? isn't it a very wide reaching symbol?) even though it's only in one of her sprites
so there's a guy with this headcanon, there's a schizo who hates him who argues endlessly for no real reason, there's a bunch of people who just egg it on because they're children, and there's maybe one or two guys trying to talk about touhou in the middle of it all

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855876
That's part of what makes Mizuchi's origins and powers and Reimu's reaction to the whole thing so unusual, isn't it? She's acting very out of character compared to most other incidents. I can only hope it's intentional and not just inconsistent writing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855876
>How come that hasn't showed up yet here where it would be at its most useful?
The same reason the mind reading detective hasn't been doing much mind reading or detective work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855882
You try posting that in one of those threads and see what happens.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855864
>Aya is only lying in the sense she doesn't know the full picture to a lot of her stories.
Uh, no. Hatate points out that Aya's newspaper is a deliberately dishonest tabloid. Aya admits how she deliberately twists the truth for views in the Utopia afterword, not that we didn't know that already. The post you're replying to is also another example of her being dishonest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855900
you're talking about the same manga that's flat out retconned shou and nazrin's backstories

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855227
yeah she did say "assassin"

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855903
bros...don't tell me the series I've been devoted to for 15 years is written by a hack...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855913
Know what, I'm bored and don't care about /v/ or it's quality of content, Imma post this exact post and see what happens. For science!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855882
Come to think of it, has it ever been stated that the position of Hakurei shrine maiden is passed down via inheritance or is it possible that they simply just adopt anyone with the proper aptitude for the role?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855969
Mima said the hakurei powers are inherited by blood.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855969
never stated either way, but there's that one line of Aya's from SSiB where she says that they 'may have to find a new shrine maiden' if Reimu doesn't return from the moon, though that could have just as easily meant sanae or just meant nothing at all
it could go either way, but it seems a little risky to have it be a hereditary position if it's a position where you could die at any time

[Anonymous No.]

I can't believe Mizuchi was actually the spirit of Reimu's yin yang orb from Touhou 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855876
>Reimu was noted to have super intuition? One that was shown to be even more accurate than Yukari's?
does it work that well in the manga? most of the time she gets treated like a retard in WaHH, and needed to be held back by Marisa and Tanuki in FS because either she never read the situation carefully or got played by Yukari in both manga(FS she actually helped her by making Suzu almost turning into Youkai her fault)

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856030
It definitely works in the manga, Marisa doesn't trust Tanuki but Reimu says she's not the culprit, pointing to her intuition.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856076
>>43856030
It's better to say it works whenever ZUN feels like it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856003
And in the same conversation says the power can be transferred after being absorbed by the ying yang orbs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856103
Yes, that's why she and Meira want it in the first place, but Mima specifically points out that in Reimu's case it's blood-related.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856124
Meira could have gotten it if she wasn't afraid of catching the gay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854873
Yukari did almost nothing but give a cryptic hint to her BFF and then spent her time dicking around as a distraction.
I'm being pedantic, Yukari is right to flaunt the fact she bested Eirin in a game of intellect because she underestimated her opponent.

As for CDS, if we actually go all the way to LoLK, there is no way Eirin would stay in her summer house paying rent to Tewi.
It almost feels like she cares more for the moon than Kaguya and is only sticking around her because she feels resbonsible for the elixir.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856161
There's a reality where Meira plays along and ZUN proceeds to make crudely drawn 4komas of Meira trying and failing to harness the power of the yin yang orbs at the shrine because Reimu's blissfully unaware lovey-dovey antics keep foiling her plans.

[Anonymous No.]

Why was Kogasa scolded? All she did was fall over and now she is being accused and abused.
Someone save this umbrella!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856238
She's just a comedic relief butt monkey for ZUN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856187
No way will it cover LoLK. The majority of people involved live either on the moon or in hell and they have little to do with Gensokyo.
Even TD is in doubt since that wasn't a real incident and the hermits are probably the closest thing to an anti-youkai faction.
WBaWC obviously wouldn't work, either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856238
Well, it's Byakuren. What did you expect?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856269
Just the fact that ZUN's wasted our time this much makes me doubt that he won't continue padding it with the later games' cast.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856269
>The majority of people involved live either on the moon or in hell and they have little to do with Gensokyo.
Didn't stop them from reappearing in either the fairies manga, Antinomy, Utopia or the new game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855933
CDS really is the worst manga, but did it say they never left to the underground? It's always been weird that those two showed up in Gensokyo at the same time the airship got freed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854828
>>43854873
>yukari flaunts because of her girlfriends work and plan
yukari would be dead without yuyuko.
and all she did for her dear friend was killing her dead!
useless sage!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855876
Damn do I miss SSiB.
>>43856030
ZUN said that WaHH Reimu is that way because (most of) it is told from Kasen's perspective which somehow alters reality itself. That's why she doesn't even remember things like the fact that she can talk to gods and is just being a silly comedic relief all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856463
Don't you have meals to cook Youmu?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856325
Only the moon rabbits and Clownpiece actually live in Gensokyo, though, and they're small fry. The other, more important characters only rarely visit and it'd be hard for Mizuchi to make a move against them.
I'm not sure if DDC would even get something when everyone in that game was a weak dumbass, while most of the past targets were fairly important and/or powerful people. Random weaklings like Rumia aren't involved in the story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856504
>Random weaklings like Rumia aren't involved in the story.
:(

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856504
>I'm not sure if DDC would even get something when everyone in that game was a weak dumbass, while most of the past targets were fairly important and/or powerful people. Random weaklings like Rumia aren't involved in the story
If Mizuchi bothered to posess weaklings like Meiling and Kyouko then this is clearly not an issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856518
Come to think of it, why didn't Mizuchi possess Byakuren while she was pretending to be down?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856518
>weaklings like Meiling
:(
Hong is not weak, she's just a little clumsy at danmaku!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856539
Because she was outside pretending to be a dog.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856539
ask ZUN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856554
Kinky.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856539
she was in the graveyard doing whatever

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856518
They're means to an end, giving her access to the main culprits, whom she seems to have beef with, since the story uses the main incidents as a connecting thread. Messing with the big shots either directly or fucking up their subordinates is Mizuchi's goal, I think, somehow.
>>43856514
The vengeful spirit fears the darkness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856601
But neither Remi or Byakuren were targeted in any way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856601
Clownpiece lives under Reimu's shrine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856601
>The vengeful spirit fears the darkness.
:D

[Anonymous No.]

why the fuck are these snail pace manga monthly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856655
Artists have bones made of glass, please understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856593
I see, I see.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856593
Honestly thought she was looking for the entrance to the Mausoleum. Wasn't expecting her to try and flee so quickly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856629
She messed up several of the vampire's associates, which is enough to send a message.
And she obviously never managed to finish her work at the temple, so Byakuren very well could've been her next target.
>>43856644
She's just a fairy. I can't see her as a main target unless Mizuchi wants to use her to approach Hecatia/Junko. But since Piece can't actually reach them on her own, she wouldn't be of much help.
And that's assuming that fairies can even be possessed. Since normal fairies are pure life force, instead of mental energy, they might just be immune to vengeful spirits entirely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856905
Anon your theory makes no sense, why wouldn't she posess Remi and Byakuren if she did with Kaguya and Yuyuko? What was stopping her at the Myouren temple if she can jump from one body to the next without the characters being able to do anything about it? That's just too inconsistent. Not to mention Mokou too which is a left field move.

>But since Piece can't actually reach them on her own, she wouldn't be of much help.
Not true, the last fairies manga ends solely because Okina knows for a fact that Piece can talk with her boss, she wouldn't have wasted her time otherwise. Plus we know Hecatia keeps tabs on Piece anyways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856905
>they might just be immune to vengeful spirits entirely.
Considering vengeful spirits are said to eat fairies for breakfast, no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855900
>>43853506
It's extra weird too because the previous manga ended with Reimu fearlessly willing to fight off every vengeful spirit ever for the sake of protecting mischevious fairies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856992
I'm not going to claim to know why Mizuchi doesn't just possess everyone because the manga isn't telling us jack shit about her goals. There's a clear pattern in targeting the groups responsible for major incidents, however, even if the main culprits can avoid getting hit, sometimes.

And Okina wasn't expecting Clownpiece at all. She was just baiting hell in general and stumbled upon her by chance, and at that point she could obviously reasonably expect that her master would check in with her about the situation afterwards. But it's still not something Piece has any control over, Hecatia always has to come to her. Mizuchi has no way to start enough shit to get her attention.
>>43857008
They eat crystallized souls (and the crystallized fairies may still be different from human souls, since they have a very different life cycle), that's not the same as being able to possess them. Youkai are considered extremely vulnerable to possession due to their nature as spiritual beings born from human fear, but fairies are the exact opposite of that, being all nature.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856629
remi was pissing her pantsu
her harrassment was a success

[Anonymous No.]

>>43855078
This just in: Local Moon genius has a touch of the 'tism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43857796
Just a hint.
Just a teensy dash of sperg, a drop in the ocean.
A little jigger for the road, that road being life, and the jig in question being 'tistic in nature.
A miniscule tendancy to lose a few noodles from her pockets, nothing to be concerned about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43857315
>There's a clear pattern in targeting the groups responsible for major incidents
Sending a message to others, hence why she told Marisa that. It's not about the final bosses.
>And Okina wasn't expecting Clownpiece at all.
She literally let them go after saying that all she wanted was for Piece to tell her master something, meaning she knew Piece could take to her. Also I don't know why are you hinged on this point like they're real people with real schedules or something, dude, if ZUN feels like it, Piece will talk with Hecatia, no questions asked.
> that's not the same as being able to possess them
You said they might be straight up immune to them when we know they're not. Nothing in the manga says they are either, so wait for that to be brought up before making claims. This thread is proof enough that the last thing ZUN cares about is consistency.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43856407
I remember even 2chan complaining about it and claiming ZUN forgot.

[Anonymous No.]

There's still people saying Reimu's character is being "inconsistent" and I still don't get the argument. Reimu's flaws should be pretty clear at this point, and the one being presented in the manga is obvious: the more she gives a shit about something, the more she sucks at it.
This was a constant in WaHH and why she's constantly poor. She tries too hard to get money, and thus gets no money. Reimu's inherent selfishness with the mechanics of her powers detriments her everyday life.
>>43856992
>What was stopping her at the Myouren temple if she can jump from one body to the next without the characters being able to do anything about it?
You don't know that. Mizuchi has never possessed people when a character isn't on their own. She likely can't just possess people all willy nilly without repercussions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43857919
That explains why she's still a virgin after millions of years.
She tells herself that guys are just intimidated by her intelligence, but she clearly just embarrasses herself every time she meets an attractive guy.
I bet this is the real reason she decided to hide Stacyguya in the woods, too. She just wouldn't be able to cope with seeing the princess being able to talk to cute boys without saying something incredibly stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43850841
Just because you know who the culprit is doesn't make it not a mystery manga. Johann Liebert in Monster is a great example. Everybody spends a billion episodes trying to find a guy we knew was the culprit a long time ago.
Mizuchi and Johann even have similar aspects, with both of the mystery surrounding their incidents take on a similar approach. You know they're in the scene, but you don't know who they are. Johann loves to disguise himself, and Mizuchi straight up possesses people and tries to act like them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43858654
Reimu had the most success when she was actually listening to Aunn and steadily and diligently doing her job for once, though. Until she got tired of it and stopped bothering, at least.
Her issues with money isn't because she's trying "too hard", but because she keeps attempting get-rich-quick schemes instead of just working hard to make the shrine prosper.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43858709
The aspect of "floating through life" has always been ingrained into Reimu, and it's literally her power. She uses a lot of her powers subconsciously, she picks a direction and manages to find culprits intuitively, she mindlessly walks through a pond and fish line up for her to walk on, etc. It's the things she puts effort on that doesn't go as well as they do when she doesn't give a shit.
It doesn't mean that she can't succeed with normal work, like with the example you mentioned, but it simply means her godlike luck doesn't work on things she puts effort on. It's likely partially why she expects "get-rich quick" schemes to work, her luck has always carried her to victory, so why wouldn't it here? Kasen even takes advantage of this when she bets against Reimu in WaHH, but cheers for her to win instead, knowing that Reimu will do worse when she's trying and being cheered on.
Basically, when she's trying on something, she doesn't have abysmal luck, she just has normal girl luck in comparison to her usual literal god luck. At least, that's my understanding of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43858740
>Kasen even takes advantage of this when she bets against Reimu in WaHH, but cheers for her to win instead, knowing that Reimu will do worse when she's trying and being cheered on.
that was kinda fucked up

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854938
Guess I don't remember exactly why she was nervous, but the point still stands, she still didn't get her happy ending unlike Kasen that was all smiley and shit.

[Anonymous No.]

So if the really lazy and greedy Reimu of W&HH is because it is the perception of Kasen, and the really serious, and menacing Reimu of FS is because it's from the perception of Kosuzu.
Is the really cowardly and selfish Reimu of CDS because we are seeing her of the perception of Satori or Mizuchi?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43857987
>She literally let them go after saying that all she wanted was for Piece to tell her master something, meaning she knew Piece could take to her
NTA but Okina herself is the one behind crystallization of fairies to bait the hell faction. Beside there's no way a hell fairy would wander so far from Hell itself so it's pretty obvious Clownpiece was planted in Gensokyo by someone for a reason

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859575
satori's perspective lets it make the most sense because it's the sort of thing you'd try and keep hidden from others, but nothing is hidden from a mind reader
although, if Mizuchi really hates the Hakurei that much, it would also make sense for her to assume the worst traits out of it's current shrine maiden
so, hmm, jury's still out, methinks

[Anonymous No.]

>>43842863
>>43843027
Flandre has always have some crude sass in her bone even all the way back in EOSD

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859583
crappiss is a glowie confirm??????

[Anonymous No.]

Koishi will do what her incompetent sister couldn't do for years by defeating Mizuchi by shanking her in the back

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859669
It's pretty obvious anon... Her clothes literally gave us a clue for years...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859685
The England 2hu

>>43859688
B-but the moon landings!
T-the moonies!
It all makes sense now...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859694
Alice is the designated englel 2hu

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859828
She's romaninan

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859623
>satori's perspective lets it make the most sense
This is what Reimu gets for giving a negative score to one blessed with the ultimate power.

[Anonymous No.]

Whose perspective is it for SSiB? Yukari? The moonies?
How about the mainline games?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43854107
>Where is it implied she can't control humans?
Been a bit since I misread the first couple of chapters, my bad. I misconstrued
>doesn't pass out after being possessed as
>just hitches a ride
somehow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859583
>NTA but Okina herself is the one behind crystallization of fairies to bait the hell faction.
Duh? When did I say otherwise?
> so it's pretty obvious Clownpiece was planted in Gensokyo by someone for a reason
By Hecatia, we know because Hecatia literally tells her this. I'm also not sure what does this have to do with anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43858654
>>43858740

>There's still people saying Reimu's character is being "inconsistent" and I still don't get the argument
The thread is full of examples. Like how she says tengu don't lie only for her to distrust Aya later on for no reason. Or how she cares about Marisa's well being only to abruptly stop caring and never bring it up again, instead caring more about Yukari and Yuyuko's. Or how different she is in attitude in EoSD where she's extremely cool headed the whole way through to the point of playing along with the final boss' theatrics, whereas more recent games has her in a perpetually hotheaded mood and when another theatrics opportunity plays itself she straight up mocks the idea of doing so, like she hadn't done so before.

The theory that the more Reimu cares about something the more she sucks doesn't make sense, she cares about resolving incidents and indeed solves most of them. WaHH is not even a good example because the ploys are lazy get-rich-quick schemes, not something that has a lot of effort puy in. ZUN himself explained that Reimu was that way in that manga because it was told from Kasen's perspective, not because it ties in with anything else in the series. The Aunn example is when she puts the most honest effort in and she's rewarded with success, so I can't see WaHH as anything but the opposite of your theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859213
>she still didn't get her happy ending
How so? Reimu got her money for it which is what she wanted, the very last moment we see of Reimu in the manga is her being cheery after the "her fears weren't realized" message appears. She absolutely got her happy ending.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859583
>by someone for a reason
Hecatia wants life energy to terraform Hell. She needs a fuckton of life force and a way to manipulate all of it to fill Hell with life. Therefore, she needs to
1. Kidnap a SHITLOAD of fairies
2. Figure out some way to manipulate the flames of Hell to make all the life force go wild

[Anonymous No.]

>>43859927
ZUN said that the perception shit only applied to the manga. That said, I'm gonna go ahead and assume he didn't have that idea in his head as early as SSiB. SSiB Reimu is already pretty similar to early Windows Reimu after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43858740
>but cheers for her to win instead, knowing that Reimu will do worse when she's trying and being cheered on.
That never made any sense. That chapter ties in with Hopeless Masquerade, and in that game, being cheered on is a good thing. Nowhere else does Reimu being supported on affect her performance, so this is completely out of the blue and it too contradicts the Aunn example. ZUN pulled it out of his ass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43858740
>she picks a direction and manages to find culprits intuitively
Every playable character reaches the final boss too, so it's nothing special. Also Reimu is the last person who could think she's gifted with good luck considering she's miserable more often than not, can't even fish something without the fairies freezing and shattering it. I really don't think she thought her schemes would work because of her alleged luck. Plus, relying on luck is the opposite of effort anyways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43860359
Just because something doesn't align with your theories doesn't mean it's pulled out the ass. The concept of "floating" doesn't just exist in Touhou, you'll see it other Japanese media as well, like Kara no Kyoukai. Only that Reimu has it as her power.
Just because cheering is a good thing in HM in general doesn't mean it would work for Reimu, especially if Reimu's power contradicts it.

>>43860237
Reimu wishy-washy and doesn't trust people? Seems legit.
Where does it say that she doesn't care about Marisa's wellbeing? Marisa's her rival, she cares about her but at the same time she knows she can pull her own weight. She's been in the incident solving business almost as long as she is. Even in FS when Marisa gets knocked unconscious by Suzers, when Reimu finds her she just makes a joke that Marisa's dead.
On other hand, it makes sense that she gets agitated on matters on stuff related to Kosuzu and gets flustered, but on regular incident solving she's simply rash or wants to get it over with.
It's made clear since early on in the manga, both to the audience and hinted to Reimu herself, that the spirit has ties to her. This is especially apparent with Reimu's reaction to the surname in one of the latest chapters.
Reimu has a personal attachment to the incident, which makes it very different to literally every other incident in the games.
She cares about resolving incidents in the same way I care about doing my job. It's a job, nothing more nothing less. It's not personal for her, it's just something she does and must do. It's the role of the Hakurei shrine maiden.
Her ploys being "lazy get-rich" schemes yet always failing is the point. If she had her usual luck, she will get the money she wants. But she doesn't. Instead, she had to work for it in order to get actually get something, instead of simply breezing, or floating, through the situation.
Reimu's schtick is that she's extremely talented, capable of doing almost everything with a modicum of effort. She never has to work for anything, and things simply go her way. She managed to be far, far stronger than Marisa despite Marisa's hard work in simply trying to catch up to her. Their dynamic is a classic talent vs hard-work.
But the things Reimu actually wants never come to her naturally. Imagine the concept of a Mary Sue, but make that Mary Sue be incapable of achieving things that actually matters to her, at least not in the same level of effort that comes with her territory. In the simplest terms, that's Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43860707
With Reimu however, her intuition and way of doing things is pointed out explicitly. She just picks a direction, beats everything in that direction, and incident solved. She doesn't search for clues, she just goes with her pure intuition.
In the case of other protagonists, you can argue its them trying to actually solve the incident by looking for clues instead. One of the protagonists (I don't remember who it was, I think it was Youmu) even say they follow trails of fairies, because fairies get excited during incidents.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43860792
>Just because something doesn't align with your theories doesn't mean it's pulled out the ass.
Of course it's an asspull if it's never happened before even though Kasen pretends otherwise.
>Where does it say that she doesn't care about Marisa's wellbeing? Marisa's her rival, she cares about her but at the same time she knows she can pull her own weight. She's been in the incident solving business almost as long as she is.
I don't think you've been reading this manga considering Reimu became an extreme worrywart about Marisa's well-being in it, more than she's ever been before, right until she wasn't and stopped caring altogether, instead only deciding to tackle the incident again because she cares about Yukari's suffering more apparently. She had no reaction whatsoever when she reunited with Marisa even though she was screaming her name to the high heavens like a parent who's lost their child a few chapters before. This is really not comparable at all to comedic scenarios like the FS example you mentioned where everyone knew Marisa wasn't actually dead and were just having a laugh.

>Reimu has a personal attachment to the incident, which makes it very different to literally every other incident in the games.
Kosuzu and Kasen are her friends, those incidents were personal to her too. Same with how she was willing to protect the fairies whom she had warmed up to from vengeful spirits. By the way where are you going with this? I'm unsure what an incident being personal to her or not has to do with what we're talking about.
>it's just something she does and must do. It's the role of the Hakurei shrine maiden.
She still puts effort in them and usually succeeds, showing that effort does work with her. Apathy is not mutually exclusive with effort in this case.
>Her ploys being "lazy get-rich" schemes yet always failing is the point.
But your theory was that she put effort in those and because of that she fails, when it's the very opposite. They fail precisely because she DOESN'T put effort in them, that's why they're get rich quick schemes, and when she does put effort in (Aunn), she succeeds. I don't think you can twist this any other way other than ZUN showing the extremely basic moral of laziness bad, effort good. The very opposite of your initial theory.
>She never has to work for anything, and things simply go her way.
Uh what? We're talking about the same shrine maiden who lives in perpetual hunger and is in a constant state of misery and complaining like a grumpy old man? She's like one of the characters whose things go her way the least considering nobody else seems to have financial problems somehow. Reimu's innate talent only helps her win fights, and she doesn't even enjoy doing that. It's like she's cursed with a life she never wanted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43860816
Not really, off the top of my head, Reimu points out that she used Meiling to find out where the SDM was in EoSD. Yuugi tells her that she has to go to the palace of earth spirits to find out what's going on, where Satori guides her to where Orin is, who then tells her to find a certain bird. She has to ask Yuyuko what's going with the spirits in TD, then Reimu points out that she followed the trail of divine spirits to Yoshika's cemetery where the mausoleum is. Benben has to tell her where the culprit is in DDC, and then follows Seija to where Sukuna is, and so on. Her intuition is pointed out only selectively like at the end of IN rather than always, conveniently absent in cases where it would be most useful (like this manga).

[Anonymous No.]

>>43860964
>Kosuzu and Kasen are her friends, those incidents were personal to her too. Same with how she was willing to protect the fairies whom she had warmed up to from vengeful spirits.
Oh, there's also the Sumireko incident, Reimu got passionate as hell at the end, fittingly considering what was at stake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43860964
>asspull
Don't think you know what asspull means. Or does it need explicit pointing out for something to not be an asspull?
Reimu's powers and concept is her being able to "float" for a reason. This is not some random factoid plopped into her character bio, this is the basis of her character. Musou Tensei is even stated outright in Grimoire of Marisa that's it's an INNATE power of Reimu, it's not even something she learned. Her ultimate, strongest move is her closing her eyes, letting everything go, and having everything done automatically, without effort of her own. It wasn't even a spellcard before Marisa named it.
Does that sound like hard work or effort, to you? That should already tell you the concept of Reimu, but let me explain further.
Reimu's powers is called "floating", not "flying" or "phasing out" or "intangiblity", for a reason. Her "floating" through life, with no care, isolated from others, undefined (which, mind you, is what 浮く, or "float" in english, also means) is a constant for Reimu. With ZUN's extreme love for wordplay, this connection shouldn't be too hard a pill to swallow. If you've also watched Kara no Kyoukai, it almost spoonfeeds you the very concept. It's a very Buddhist way of thinking.
This is the basis of her power, and so when Reimu stops "floating" through life, aka when she starts putting more effort and care into something, the less her power takes ahold of the situation, and she simply actually has to try instead of just win without effort.
Kasen's "cheer" is a great example of that. The moment Kasen cheers Reimu on, her thoughts become distracted, she starts to care more, and her power to "float" is rendered far less effective.
And just because the manga has Reimu not explicitly mentioning that she's worried about Marisa every chapter means she doesn't care anymore? And a comedic scenario Marisa being downed in FS it is not, it's literally the first thing Kosuzu does after she becomes a proto-youkai, arguably the climax of the final arc.
Reimu simply handles it in a lighthearted manner, and that's their relationship, as per A LOT of anime rivalry friendships. It's a classic trope to not show your proper emotions in front of your rival. In just this anime season, in the KonoSuba spinoff, it was the way Megumin treated Yunyun for literally every episode.

>Kosuzu and Kasen are her friends, those incidents were personal to her too.
I said "games" for a reason. And yes, they are, and guess why she struggled quite a bit with those incidents too? Kind of like... the incident here.
>I'm unsure what an incident being personal to her or not has to do with what we're talking about.
The more she cares about something, the more she sucks at doing things about that something.
>She still puts effort in them and usually succeeds
Of course she puts effort, but practically the bare minimum. And her being apathetic, yet succeeding, is the point.
>They fail precisely because she DOESN'T put effort in them
But she does put effort in them? Would be disingenuous to say she doesn't, a lot of chapters and arcs in WaHH is her thinking and planning ways to make money. That's not "not putting any effort", it's simply her trying to shortcut.
And it's also besides the point. They fail because she CARES about making money, and thus her power to float ceases to guide her to automatic victory. Again, Reimu's thing is that she succeeds in near everything she does, but the things she cares about she cannot simply get. It's literally why the concept of "hard-work" is almost unseen with her, and again, the entire dynamic that differentiates her and Marisa. Or do you think Reimu's lazy because she's simply lazy? Everything goes her way, one way or another... as long as she doesn't think about it too much. Sadly, she thinks about money too much.
>Reimu's innate talent only helps her win fights, and she doesn't even enjoy doing that. It's like she's cursed with a life she never wanted.
Hey! You're starting to get it. She's incredibly competent on things she doesn't care about, but sucks at things she cares about!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43861242
Having to explain like that makes you wonder who you share this site with, dont it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43861242
I don't know why you keep harping on about her innate power that only applies to how strong she is as if they apply to the rest of her character. Especially since HM itself goes against what Kasen said and WaHH explicitly says that if Reimu didn't take the lazy route and put effort in her ploys, she would stop being poor, the complete opposite of your theory.
>And just because the manga has Reimu not explicitly mentioning that she's worried about Marisa every chapter means she doesn't care anymore?
Going from screaming her name and searching her everywhere only to abandon that chase and possibly letting her die? Yes actually. Again, Reimu had never ever acted this way before towards Marisa, almost like this is a serious situation that she has zero confidence in and not a comedic one or one that she's confident knowing she'll succeed.
>And a comedic scenario Marisa being downed in FS it is not
Yes it is, that's why the manga makes light of the situation and Reimu jokes about Marisa being dead, because she wasn't seriously hurt at all. There is no humor at all regarding Reimu being worried about Marisa in CDS because this time Reimu fears it's actually dead serious.
>Reimu simply handles it in a lighthearted manner, and that's their relationship,
Then how come Reimu never acted this way regarding Marisa before? Why joke in FS but not joke at all in CDS? I'll tell you why, because in FS Marisa was only scratched whereas in CDS Reimu actually feared for her life. Also, Reimu stopped caring before she even reunited with Marisa, so that shit about hiding your true feelings in front of the other doesn't even apply here. Did you actually read this manga or not? Also, what you said regarding their relationship is not true, Marisa screams Reimu's name while trying to save her in FS from what she thinks is fire for example.

>And yes, they are, and guess why she struggled quite a bit with those incidents too?
Uh, she struggled with Kasen because all her firepower was literally sucked away from her, she couldn't even fire danmaku. And she didn't struggle with Kosuzu, she was extremely confident that nothing bad would happen and smugly told Mamizou that she knows the latter could save her, which she did. Then Reimu goes to get lectured by Yukari and the incident ends.
>The more she cares about something, the more she sucks at doing things about that something.
Not true, pic related.
>Of course she puts effort, but practically the bare minimum.
Fighting with strong characters is not bare minimum effort, sure as hell as miles ahead of what she does in WaHH. Again, you're confusing apathy with lack of effort. SSiB is when she has given the least shits possible and she lost. Limbo is when she has been the most passionate in-game and she won.

>But she does put effort in them?
Nnnope, pic related. WaHH itself proves me right.
> They fail because she CARES about making money
Except she also cared about making money in the Aunn chapter and she succeeded thanks to hard effort according to the narration.
>You're starting to get it.
You're the one who said that things always go her way, I was correcting you by pointing out it's mostly the complete opposite.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43861420
By the gods.
>I don't know why you keep harping on about her innate power that only applies to how strong she is
Holy shit, you think the powers in Touhou are just plopped into a character with no thought and are just there for powers, disconnected to the owner? Or hell, you think this is the case in fiction in general? You think it's some global controversy that characters with fire powers tend to be hotheaded or characters with ice powers to be quiet and cold? They're tied to the character, my god. they're not disconnected. This is writing, my guy. And this is ESPECIALLY the case for Touhou, the wordplay central series and where for many characters the only thing concrete thing you know for many of them is their name and powers.
Kyouko is loud, with the power of sound! Suika, the lonely oni... has powers that gather things together! Kokoro, the expressionless... has the power of emotions!
It's like, they're connected, or something! What a revelation.
Literally in EaLND Reimu's power to float kicks in and has fish literally serve as her stepping stones, just to cross a river. And on the panel I just posted, she doesn't even realize she crosses a river. But no, her stepping on fish is an indication of her OP fishstepping powers, and isn't intended to showcase how Reimu works, at all.
That almost gave me a headache.
>Going from screaming her name and searching her everywhere only to abandon that chase and possibly letting her die? Yes actually.
So you expect melodrama 24/7? Do you know Touhou?
>Yes it is, that's why the manga makes light of the situation and Reimu jokes about Marisa being dead, because she wasn't seriously hurt at all.
And you know Reimu's thoughts about this, how, exactly? You're thinking with hindsight.
>Then how come Reimu never acted this way regarding Marisa before?
I really, really don't know what you expect from a Touhou manga. You really thought Reimu's gonna be huffing and hectic the entire manga until she and Marisa reunite?
Hey, this happened before too, not with Marisa, but with Kosuzu... when Kosuzu became a youkai, was she hectic the entire way? Do you know how emotions work? Do you know the concept of an initial reaction?

She could fire danmaku during Kasen's fight, the fuck do you mean? And she did struggle with Kosuzu, not in a fight, but her intuition about the incident as a whole... which is the point of the lecture.
>Not true, pic related.
How many times do I have to bash the concept in? Just BECAUSE she has godlike luck and intuition on things she cares about and subpar luck on things she cares about, doesn't mean she can't succeed on the latter, it just means she actually has to try. Which, spoiler alert, she almost never does, BECAUSE SHE'S USED TO NOT TRYING AT ALL.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
As a concept, it's even supported by that panel you fucking posted.
Here, an analogy. Think of a really talented rich guy. Everything came to him naturally, because he's talented and he's rich, so he barely put effort into anything, and he still succeeds
He then gets challenged by another guy, who knows the talented guy can't do easily with his talents or riches.
Do you think the talented guy will put effort into the challenge or not?
>Again, you're confusing apathy with lack of effort.
You're confusing what the fuck "floating through life" means. It's less about effort and more about care. 浮く can literally mean ISOLATED FROM OTHERS. That is the most obvious it can goddamn get.

I also like that your best example of a "counterargument" is when Aunn told Reimu to do something, instead of she herself thinking of doing something. Maybe it never came to you, but Kasen babysitting Reimu and telling her what to do is like 80% of WaHH, and Aunn is also just doing that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43861556
>Just BECAUSE she has godlike luck and intuition on things she cares about and subpar luck on things she cares about
*Just BECAUSE she has godlike luck and intuition on things she doesn't care about.
My grammar's falling off now. I still can't fathom your first paragraph.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43857987
Okina didn't know about Clownpiece and her being a hell fairy until she actually met her. She wasn't planning to use her specifically.
From her words and actions, we can deduce Okina had two goals with the incident:
-Set up a situation they can't ignore to bait hell into showing their hand and taking action
-Keep an eye on Cirno, a promising potential subordinate, and see what she (and other fairies) would do about the situation
By a stroke of good fortune (not too dissimilar from Cirno unknowing gaining doyou from Larva's back door), fate brings both together and allows Okina to achieve both her goals in one fell swoop, which would be a better result that she ever could've hoped for.
She flexes on the unknown threat's underling and makes herself known in the process, thus ending the threat, while also learning more about fairies in the process.
She's not the kind of schemer who tries to control every piece on the board, like Yukari. Okina just sets up a big show and adjusts her plans based on what happens next, and if Clownpiece had never appeared to her, she likely would've fucked around with the fairies Hecatia would bring down to hell and make a huge mess there.

And yes, I do expect characters to act in line with what they know and what they are capable of. It's probably asking too much of ZUN, but it's not a weird thing to expect from a story.

[Anonymous No.]

Quite a lot of mental retardation in these replies.

>>43858058
Which is stupid because Shou's backstory in her profile was contradicted by one of the Marisa routes. So Shou was always meant to be underground and her character profile was likely just poorly worded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43862263
I'm not opening that gif, it's how she can posess humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43861556
>Holy shit, you think the powers in Touhou are just plopped into a character with no thought and are just there for powers
Anon, anon. I know you're proud of your little theory inside your head about how Reimu works, and it'd be very pretty and poetic if it was the case, but the events of the series contradict the way you claim it works.

>So you expect melodrama 24/7?
That does not address what I said at all.
>And you know Reimu's thoughts about this, how, exactly?
Hindsight? What? Anon I'm saying the manga shows that what you're talking about wasn't as serious as it looked because shortly afterwards it turns it into a comedic situation, a bait and switch.
>You really thought Reimu's gonna be huffing and hectic the entire manga until she and Marisa reunite?
I think you missed the part where Reimu stopped caring about reuniting with Marisa in the first place and locked herself up in her shrine.
> when Kosuzu became a youkai, was she hectic the entire way?
>And she did struggle with Kosuzu, not in a fight, but her intuition about the incident as a whole... which is the point of the lecture.
I already said Reimu was extremely confident about it and knew the situation was easy to resolve, and she was right. This is, again, not the case whatsoever in CDS. Are you not reading my posts? Also, the regular mini incidents in the manga have Reimu's intuition be wrong about them most of the time even though she has no personal matter in them either, like the rainbow colored castle in the sky.
>She could fire danmaku during Kasen's fight, the fuck do you mean?
I'm not sure if you remember but Reimu's energy had been sapped to the point where she was accepting death, and when she tried to fire danmaku, it did fuck all. That's why Kasen brought her food, pointing out that it'd be no fun to fight Reimu if she had no energy, and she doesn't even finish her meal to boot, saying this is no time to be hungry.
>she cares about and subpar luck on things she cares about, doesn't mean she can't succeed on the latter
Except, again, you claimed that her putting effort into things causes her to fail when the only time she puts effort into something in WaHH she succeeds, the manga implies that contrary to what you said, her get rich quick schemes were not hard effort at all.
>BECAUSE SHE'S USED TO NOT TRYING AT ALL.
To make money yes, but you yourself claimed before her get rich quick schemes were also the result of effort even though the manga says otherwise, now you're also implying she wasn't trying at all with those either. You're just agreeing with me.
>Just BECAUSE she has godlike luck and intuition on things she cares about and subpar luck on things she cares about
Drop that already, all playable characters reach the final boss just like she does, and yes she uses intel and hints instead of just intuition . >>43861052

You also ignored me bringing up SSiB and Limbo as further proof of your theory being wrong. Furthermore, it was actually wrong of me to say she doesn't enjoy fights, she just thinks incidents are annoying more often than not. She's absolutely giddy when she curbstomps Marisa in CoLA knowing she has a food reward waiting for her for example.
> It's less about effort and more about care.
Good thing the SSiB and Limbo examples are about care.
>I also like that your best example of a "counterargument" is when Aunn told Reimu to do something, instead of she herself thinking of doing something
What does that have to do with anything? The point here is that Reimu put hard effort into it and was rewarded with success, while also implying that her previous schemes were not considered hard effort, contrary to all your claims.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43861881
>Okina didn't know about Clownpiece and her being a hell fairy until she actually met her. She wasn't planning to use her specifically.
Nobody said otherwise, I think you misread. Okina knew, but it doesn't mean she knew beforehand. But the point here was that as soon as she learned that Clownpiece was a hell fairy, she knew she could use her to send a message to her boss, and Clownpiece confirmed that for her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43861556
>Holy shit, you think the powers in Touhou are just plopped into a character with no thought and are just there for powers, disconnected to the owner?
Also please stop putting words in my mouth, I never said anything of the sort. I just said that the specific way you're using the character-ability relationship regarding your theory about Reimu in particular is contradicted by the series itself and is not as consistent as you think it is. Your theory about effort and care not being true does not instantly dispel any thematic relationship she has with her abilities like you think I'm saying, it's just not a free pass to let you claim any remotely fitting theory you have and downplay the inconsistencies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43862263
Technically, the English translation of that profile never says she didn't go to the underground, just that it never happened at the same time as the others.

[Anonymous No.]

I feel like we are missing some exposition in CDS that would explain at least some of why Reimu is being like this. Maybe ZUN forgot it when the artist switch happened.
Honestly though Reimu should not be actively partaking in this, it should have been Satori and Orin chasing Mizuchi through the different games casts while Reimu sat at home drinking or hiding or in a plot coma so she doesn't have to blunder about wasting our time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863658
Unless Mizuchi has a connection to her, which is the eventual revelation I'm counting on to justify this bumbling around.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863658
If you ask me, the whole detective Satori thing probably would've worked better in a slice of life format where she goes around solving the mystery of the week while MiMi is slowly built up as a Moriarty style figure masterminding things from the shadows, eventually leading up to the inevitable confrontation between the two.
>>43863718
I wonder how /jp/ would react if MiMi ends up having all of Mima's lore/plot and character beats.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863856
Yeah, that is what many people first take on this series was. Satori going around solving shit even if her mind reading powers didn't always help.
Either way, CDS is definitely no DiPP that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863718
That would work too, but this seems like ZUN making an attempt to do something other than slice of life.
So keeping with the original idea, drop Reimu and Marisa and let Satori and Orin go around and actually intereact with all of the 2hus. Just look at how much people loved the 3 panels we had of Chen and Orin, people would have eaten any bad writing up if they got to see more of stuff like that. Hell bring in Okuu for good measure (and as muscle).

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863718
Maybe, but the main reason for Reimu's involvement is definitely just because ZUN feels the need to center Reimu in every manga. Even the fairies eventually moved to the shrine grounds, giving Reimu a stronger presence there.
It really feels like a waste of the setting to make such a huge cast and then keep focusing on the same handful of characters every time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863950
All he uses Reimu for is usually just to humiliate her or show her being wrong about something while another character takes the spotlight though, she's just his personal clown. I remember there was a WaHH chapter that doesn't have Reimu at all until the last page where, completely out of the blue, shows her starving to death as a gag, that's it, even though it had nothing to do with the rest of the chapter. It's like he enjoys torturing her, her tears are his sustenance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864383
I feel like you are taking this all a little too personally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43848111
Now that you mention it, someone should make the edit

[Anonymous No.]

>>43862865
>Anon, anon. I know you're proud of your little theory inside your head about how Reimu works, and it'd be very pretty and poetic if it was the case, but the events of the series contradict the way you claim it works.
But it doesn't. You know what, I'll storyboard it for you later, since you can't seem to follow.

So why does fish put themselves in her feet when she walked without care? Why did Kasen cheer her on to make her lose? Why is Reimu's description in many entries describe her great luck and intuition? Why does the ultimate conclusion to her ability lead her to closing your eyes and doing... nothing?
"Asspulls"?

>That does not address what I said at all.
But it does. Your expecting grand displays on Reimu's part 24/7.
>Hindsight? What? Anon I'm saying the manga shows that what you're talking about wasn't as serious as it looked because shortly afterwards it turns it into a comedic situation, a bait and switch.
Except, once more, you're thinking with hindsight. You're thinking in terms of a reader and know that Marisa's unhurt and scot-free. How would Reimu know that, and even if she does, how would you know her immediate thought?
>I'm not sure if you remember but Reimu's energy had been sapped to the point where she was accepting death, and when she tried to fire danmaku, it did fuck all.
What? That's not what happened. She literally fires danmaku in page 20 of Chapter 49.
>Except, again, you claimed that her putting effort into things causes her to fail when the only time she puts effort into something in WaHH she succeeds, the manga implies that contrary to what you said, her get rich quick schemes were not hard effort at all.
OKAY. Here is where I storyboard it for you, so why you think your examples somehow contradict mine can get squished. Let's bash it, once again.
1. Reimu is naturally good at almost everything
2. Except the things she cares for
3. Money is something she greatly cares for, and thinks of a lot
4. Unlike most scenarios, she cannot get money by simply being lazy
5. She cannot use her godlike luck to get money no matter what because of her personality
6. She has to use effort in order to get money
7.Since she is spoiled by her luck, she doesn't use effort 90% of the time
8. She doesn't use that much effort in her schemes
9. She doesn't get money
10. Only when she either a "normal person's" amount of effort or told by others to do does she succeed

Now, how does your one scenario contradict Reimu's thing... at all?
"b-but you said effort is"
I have said multiple times that caring is what matters. The effort she puts is simply a conclusion to the luck she is given, and not the cause.

>You also ignored me bringing up SSiB and Limbo as further proof of your theory being wrong. Furthermore, it was actually wrong of me to say she doesn't enjoy fights, she just thinks incidents are annoying more often than not. She's absolutely giddy when she curbstomps Marisa in CoLA knowing she has a food reward waiting for her for example.
Because they're not very good examples at all. Reimu in her "floating" case is her in her, basically, "ultimate form". Just because she cares for something doesn't automatically mean she'll lose in a fight or she'll lose her power, it just means it's not in her peak power. It just means she won't just close her eyes and automatically beat you.
Hell, we don't even if she lost that fight against Byakuren that Kasen cheered Reimu for. She might've even won that. Reimu's naturally strong regardless and doesn't need her 100% all the time, whether she knows it or not.
And in terms of the SSiB Yorihime example... you think that's an example? lmao
The whole point of the sisters is that Yorihime is Reimu but better, and Toyohime is Yukari but better. Reimu's strong, but she's not the strongest in all of Touhou. She can close her eyes and not give a shit nonstop and she's not gonna beat Hecatia in a straight fight.
>effort
shut up about effort

[Anonymous No.]

>>43848111
Now that you have mentioned it, someone should make the edit

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864703
I wonder what she would have looked like with the old artist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864724

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864742
also, given that she doesn't have her gloves nor her inner camisole, I think it's likely that ZUN never gave ginmokusei any sort of sketch or reference for Mizuchi, meaning she wasn't planned to appear any earlier than when she actually did (though, I have a suspicion that she only appeared in the Eientei arc because ZUN was worried about people having lost interest from the hiatus)

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864742
She looks more like an old witch here
Mimafags would definitely go crazy

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864655
>The whole point of the sisters is that Yorihime is Reimu but better, and Toyohime is Yukari but better.
Reimu is way more like Toyohime than she is like Yorihime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864788
In terms of personality, yes, but in terms of powers no. Toyohime's power is quite similar (and a more obtuse version) to Yukari's power.

[Anonymous No.]

>43862865
Oh, and I also like that you mentioned CoLA, because I forgot that there's a snippet in it that almost spoonfeeds you the idea, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864855
Nah, boundary manipulation is part of Reimu's skillset too, and she may very well rely on it more than her ability to commune with and channel gods, which she rarely bothers with, so she's absolutely far more comparable to Toyohime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43865056
I'm guessing you mean when she teleports in later games? That's not "boundary manipulation", that's her using her Urban Legend power "Gap Woman", which funnily enough is quite similar to Yukari. Pretty sure she didn't have it before ULiL.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863153
>Your theory about effort and care not being true does not instantly dispel any thematic relationship she has with her abilities like you think I'm saying
Considering one of the first things you said during this whole debacle, you mentioned Kasen cheering Reimu on to get her to more likely lose was an "asspull"... yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43865149
No, she just uses that urban legend due to her natural affinity for it. Her duties explicitly involve dealing with the barrier and sending people across, and she's also noted as being one of the few people who can easily reach places such as the Land of the Back Door.
She's obviously not as good as Yukari, but borders *are* a big part of Reimu's powers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43865459
She deals with the barriers and has been using barriers in her repertoire for a long time, like an Omnyoji. But I don't remember a case where she uses "boundaries". Those are pretty different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43865493
She split a boundary open during FS before the Kosuzu showdown.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43865602
That was also after ULiL.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea of her being able to do some boundary shenanigans. It's pretty tangentially correlated to barriers and if at some point in the far future she can summon a train I'm not gonna be surprised.
But at the same time, theming wise Yukari's more akin to Toyohime. It makes sense in the plot too, as Yukari's the one that encounters her and Reimu's the one that encounters Yorihime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863658
Why should Reimu NOT partecipate in this? It's literally an incident that involves her friends AND the spirit is doing it because of HER specifically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43863658
>>43866357
Even without Mizuchi targeting her specifically, this is still one of, if not, the most dangerous incident Reimu ever faced that Yukari forced to use the nuclear option by throwing Flandre into the mix
Like c'mon, Mizuchi was able to defeat a lot of the top dogs in Gensokyo, including almost the entire of the incident resolver crew and one of the fucking sage

[Anonymous No.]

>>43864655
>So why does fish put themselves in her feet when she walked without care?
You could point at the million other times she has done something without care without stuff like this happening, like how fairies, who are also part of nature, do everything they can to screw her over up until towards the end of the fairy manga when she has to go out of her way to befriend them. Maybe ZUN did think about this here, but either way, it's not consistent.
> Why did Kasen cheer her on to make her lose?
We don't even know if she lost, but like I said it's an asspull because Kasen has never heard of Reimu losing due to someone cheering on her and it contradicts HM as well. Hell, you think that your theory is why Kasen thinks that way, when it could just be, you know, peer pressure, something all human beings can suffer from and Reimu was shown to go beet red over. You don't have to force your theory here.
> Why is Reimu's description in many entries describe her great luck and intuition?
Her descriptions also says that she treats everyone equally which we know is a big fat lie, not to mention we know she HAS used her intuition to solve incidents but also that it's not the only thing she uses, not by a long shot, since she uses clues and hints like every other playable character too, she even needed Yukari's help to know how to fight Okina. Like I said, her intuition only comes up selectively when ZUN feels like it like in IN.
>But it does. Your expecting grand displays on Reimu's part 24/7.
I'm expecting consistency, you talk like someone who has not read the Satori manga at all and doesn't know why Reimu stopped searching for Marisa in the first place. Hence why you bizarrely brought up a comedic FS example for god knows what reason.
>Except, once more, you're thinking with hindsight
You are completely misunderstanding things here. I don't know why you're so focused on just the part where Marisa gets attacked and not the one we were actually talking about and the one that actually relates to this whole argument: the aftermath that shows Marisa wasn't hurt, which explains everything and makes it not comparable to CDS.
>What? That's not what happened. She literally fires danmaku in page 20 of Chapter 49.
Anon please, we know her power was sapped before the fight to the point that she was accepting death, it had nothing to do with her "caring" or anything. The first time she tries to fire, her ofuda crash and burn and are completely ineffective towards the arm. Again, that's why Kasen tries to feed her, to give her strength back.
>OKAY. Here is where I storyboard it for you,
>I have said multiple times that caring is what matters.
This is backpedalling and you know it. Don't pretend you haven't used effort as an argument before like here >>43861242. But I have addressed the "caring" part too. The Aunn example does involve her caring about something she wants, and she succeeds. You tried to downplay WaHH destroying your theory by saying how "she CAN succeed with effort" when in reality what WaHH says that the ONLY way she can get out of poverty is with effort. How does your theory stand if WaHH says the exact opposite? I mean, you don't care about the effort part anymore, right?
>Just because she cares for something doesn't automatically mean she'll lose in a fight or she'll lose her power
That's my point, anon, that your theory is not concrete or consistent. And truth be told, the part I said about her getting super passionate at the end of Limbo? That pretty much applies to every game, because the final boss is when Reimu always gets pumped up the most. Not to mention her getting super on board with solving an incident happens in the manga too sometimes like when she wants to save Kosuzu. It's more accurate to say that she solves incidents begrudgingly (some far more than others, sometimes she barely even complains) but this is absolutely not mutually exclusive with "caring." She cares about Gensokyo's safety, while she may think an incident isn't threatening at first, she always thinks she needs to defeat the final boss.
>it's not in her peak power. It just means she won't just close her eyes and automatically beat you.
This is also not really true either. The CoLA example has her floating out of existence which makes Marisa's bullets go through her, to the point that Rinnosuke says this battle is so one sided that it's unfair. And this is a battle that she cared about winning: food was on the line.

Like, doesn't it seem to you that this is more you trying to force your theory in more ways than it should, hence the inconsistencies? Why would it even apply in the first place if there's examples that go against it where ZUN clearly doesn't care about "respecting" it in the first place?

>>43860792
Something I forgot to address here.
>Reimu wishy-washy and doesn't trust people? Seems legit.
Yes, saying tengu don't lie only to claim they do lie a few chapters later is pretty inconsistent and unexplained.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43865149
>Pretty sure she didn't have it before ULiL.
Nope, she did. She has had teleport moves since all the way back in IaMP. It's called Fantasy Rift. Also Dimensional Rift in SWR. She makes a tear in reality like it's nothing.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm phoneposting for this, but please be fucking consistent. Unless you really don't know what the fuck an asspull means. Saying it isn't consistent isn't in the same ballpark as saying something is a motherfucking asspull. Your argument went from "that comes out of nowhere" to "it's comes up here and again but not always".
And no, I've mentioned in like 3 separate occasions that the effort is beside the point.
And no, they don't crash and burn, I just reread the fucking chapter an hour ago.

[Anonymous No.]

You also talk about backpedaling when you just mentioned like 2 replies ago that she couldn't fire danmaku to her being able to fire danmaku but the danmaku she fired just being ineffective.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43865300
What about it? I already explained why it's an asspull: because Kasen has never heard of Reimu losing because of something like that even though she says otherwise, and because HM contradicts it. I also gave an alternate, more occam's razor explanation than one that has to have your theory in it, a pretty realistic one too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43866357
1. Because it's Satoris job not Reimus to care for vengeful spirits
2. It makes for more interesting character intereaction to force Satori to talk to people.
3. Reimu has some unkown reason she is afraid of MiMi more than anything else we have seen before, aside from maybe Sumireko trying to give Japan a 3rd nuke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867073
>1. Because it's Satoris job not Reimus to care for vengeful spirits
Why on earth would Reimu not care about the vengeful spirit terrorizing all of Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867086
>>43867073
Plus, this isn't even the first time Reimu has dealt with them. Orin uses them in her stage and Reimu has also been willing to fight them off in the Visionary Fairies manga to protect the fairies (even if they never came).

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867086
>terrorizing
She has not made a move yet that would threaten the village or the barrier.
Her defeating a bunch of youkai does not constitute an incident truly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867134
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Reimu investigate an incident where all that happened was that Suika bullied Kyouko?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867072
She's a sage, genius, and if you haven't put 2 and 2 together, the sages know more about Reimu's powers than she herself does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867011
I said the Kasen bit that happens in the manga was an asspull from ZUN. I said your theory about Reimu is inconsistent.
>And no, they don't crash and burn
This looks like crashing to me, this alone makes Reimu think the battle is lopsided, and we know her power was sapped. Her fantasy seal also ends up being ineffective and needs the sword chunk to beat Kasen in the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867167
Can't say I remember what you are referring to, but neither Suika or Kyouko posess any threat to Reimu so she can go smack an oni if she is being a nuisance.
The problem is that the only reason MiMi is such a threat is we are being told over and over again that nobody can stand up to her, somehow not even Reimu. We lack any details on this, but I doubt any reveal is going to justify the writing in this manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867329
I do remember, Marisa even gets excited because she thinks Kyouko is dead and thus she'll be able to investigate a murder like in one of those detective novels, and is disappointed when she finds out Kyouko is alive. But the point is that even if it's just a youkai getting whacked by mysterious means, Reimu still considers it an incident, so CDS isn't weird in that regard. Your post is right though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867186
That's way too convenient an answer and you know it. The issue is, yet again, that HM contradicts it since cheering there actually makes Reimu stronger, and this chapter ties into that game. That's what's so baffling about it. It's like if you made an ULiL manga chapter where the characters cannot use their own urban legend buddies and instead are haunted by them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867366
Reimus ability is to go with the flow.
She can go with the flow when a large crowd cheers her on and in battle.
But when a friend is being overly enthusiastic that can fluster you and make you lose your focus.
I think that's all it is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867417
Could be. I wouldn't have an issue if we had just seen it happen before where we learned that Reimu suffers from severe peer pressure issues or something. Then again, she has had partners "cheering" (if you can call it that) on her before like Yukari, Aya and Suika who don't really affect her performance, only help her in fact.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867435
Who can say, ambigious powers with inconsestant writing cause annoyances.
I think the only constant is that Reimu herself needs to be in a certain mood or headspace for it to work. The things that affect this very ambugious and undefined head space are ever changing and could even be blamed on the perspective of the manga seeing this differently than they are.
Also Reimu is still vastly talented even when not going with the flow, so it's not like she is a completely regular girl without her biggest trump card.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867323
How are you equalizing that panel with Reimu with her danmaku crashing and burning? They don't look like she's failing to use them at all.
>>43867366
"That answer lines up with your argument and you know it", is I think what you're implying. Kasen knowing better than Reimu, and knowing things about herself, is a constant in the series. Suddenly it's "too convenient" in this situation because we're arguing about it?

Look, it's clear at this point that no matter what I say you're not going to eat the words I spout. But let me make one thing clear, this "theory" of Reimu's ability to float being intimately tied to Reimu's character isn't just some shit I made up on the spot, this is something even the Japanese fans have said about her. Hell, even HERE in the west, you can even find videos in english about it on youtube. This is something that's been ingrained to the perception of the character before you and I talked about it. It's not just some wayside theory a schizo made up on the spot.
Letting go of desires to ascend to another plane of existence if a classic Buddhist concept. Hell, it's why Koishi got plastered in the Myouren Temple for a while. Reimu's character and her innate nature conflict with each other

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867519
>How are you equalizing that panel with Reimu with her danmaku crashing and burning? They don't look like she's failing to use them at all.
It's the next page, my bad.

[Anonymous No.]

Well, at least one of the manga is creating some discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867519
>Kasen knowing better than Reimu, and knowing things about herself, is a constant in the series.
I mean the whole manga is about Kasen being baffled and frustrated by Reimu as if she didn't know her, and her teachings and knowledge come a lot more from how a proper shrine maiden should act rather than someone who knows just how to please Reimu's buttons, that's why Kasen is so different by the end regarding how to deal with her. But this isn't even the main issue, but the core issue here is...
>Suddenly it's "too convenient" in this situation because we're arguing about it?
...because HM contradicts it.

>But let me make one thing clear, this "theory" of Reimu's ability to float being intimately tied to Reimu's character isn't just some shit I made up
Refer to >>43863153. I didn't say you made it out of the blue, I just said that you claiming it applies specifically to her success rate has too many inconsistencies with the actual events of the series. I agree that Reimu's abilities do reflect in her character in some capacity, just not in that way specifically, it's more nuanced than that.

[Anonymous No.]

>Reimu shouldn't fail from overexcitement from the cheering of a close friend in a comedy bit because muh game mechanic
Do you people even realize how you sound.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867677
I mean, it's not just a mechanic, it's part of the plot, and we don't even know if she failed to boot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867709
>>43867677
Bonus for the fact that the chapter in question is specifically an HM tie-in. It's like if you made a manga about Imperishable Night being solved during daytime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867709
>>43867728
Please point out the part where getting popularity CANONICALLY translates to the characters getting LITERALLY stronger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43867841
During story mode, some characters like Reimu notice how getting the audience to cheer for them pumps them up in a way that they seemingly can't even explain, while at the same time saying how they suddenly find fighting much harder when the audience is against them. It's almost a drug and the characters seek to gather it, in the end it's the 3 religious leaders who gather all the popularity and this causes the villager's emotions to become incident-levels of unstable, which Kokoro then fixes by the end. This is very clearly a nod to the mechanic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43868153
Jesus Christ, anon.
I've got nothing more to say.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43868582
>>43867841
Mamizou quite literally says so towards Nitori.