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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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4323462 No.4323462 [Reply] [Original]

Why are there so few companies that actually release localized versions of visual novels? We have tons of groups that translate them for free but only two companies so far actually release them, and JAST USA censores their stuff so they don't really count. If translations are already done what would be so hard in working out a licence for distribution with the original producers? Most of the games are old anyway.

>> No.4323469

The fact most companies that tried gone under indicates ...

Profit.cannot.be.found

>> No.4323468

Because women.

>> No.4323470

>We have tons of groups that translate them for free
I think you just answered your own question, Einstein.

>> No.4323474

Lack of interest.

And when I say "interest" I mean the will to actually spend money on this media.

>> No.4323478

>>4323469
Was there really any other than MangaGamer and JAST?

>>4323470
But free will never get the eroge market anywhere.

>> No.4323488

>>4323478
>But free will never get the eroge market anywhere.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at.

>> No.4323489

You can't say that there is no profit to be made. That Peter Payne guy now owns three VN companies(That branch off from JAST) and that J-List thing you see at the top and bottom of this page.

>> No.4323495

>>4323489
He has said that he loses money from most of the story based ones, and barely turns a profit from the sex romps. He's also said he only does it as he enjoys the medium.

>> No.4323499

>>4323495
.....oh

>> No.4323503

>>4323489
I always thought J-List made money by selling overpriced goods and merchandise based on old stale 2ch memes that were popular in Japan years ago. You know, "wacky stuff from Japan lol XD!"

Do they actually turn a profit from the games they sell?
And do they do any of the translation or whatever themselves?

Enlighten me.

>> No.4323510

>>4323495
Nevermind I guess this anon just answered my question.
>he only does it as he enjoys the medium.
Okay that kind of gives him a little credit in my mind. I suppose I would sell shitty merchandise to idiot weeaboos for a profit too if I only had the social skills required to run a business...

>> No.4323519

>and JAST USA censores their stuff so they don't really count.
To be fair they don't censor all of their titles, and their actual quality besides censoring is way above that of Mangagamer.

>> No.4323522

I wonder if it's a small market or piracy that causes the poor sales.

>> No.4323531

>>4323522
Both.

>> No.4323543

>>4323522
I doubt it's piracy.
The game industry is on an all time high, and games have always been one if not the group most hit by piracy.
And doesn't japs pirate their stuff like bunnies mating as well?

>> No.4323550

>>4323543
There's a large group of people who buy the games though.

>> No.4323554

Rather than localizing Japanese Visual Novels, I am surprised there aren't more people trying to make their own.

It might be even more of an investment, but you wouldn't have to share the profit with the Royalty owners and there is no mass amounts of fan translators required.

I don't know. Being the weaboo writefag I am, I'd love to write for a Visual Novel company in America or another English Speaking country.

>> No.4323560

>>4323543
Having been to Akihabara, I highly doubt that so many eroge stores in such a close proximity could function if the Japanese pirated like we did.

>> No.4323564

>>4323550
And I bet that almost all of them pirate games as well

>> No.4323567

Little interest, little advertising and about the only things that turn a profit, even as little as it is, are sex games.
Add piracy and free internet translations into the mix and it's practically impossible to turn a profit.

MangaGamer has quite a hurdle in front of them.

>> No.4323572

I'm not sure if this is correct, but I sometimes hear things about how Yo-Jin-Bo is a good example as to why people don't localize visual novels as Yo-Jin-Bo was localized but really didn't survive because of piracy.

>> No.4323584

I think the underlying problem is that Japanese read a LOT more than westerners.

Think about it. Who do you know IRL that actually READS BOOKS.

I can tell you now. Of all the people i went to school, etc with, none of them read books. At most they read manga.

What are VNs? Books on the computer(although i know some dumbfucks that keep insisting Ever17 is a hentai game).

Someone who wont even read a standard paperback novel cant be expected to read something as long as Tsukihime, which is longer than LOTR.

And yet...the japanese eat this shit up. They read them. No problem at all. Look at how many VNs sell. All those people dont buy them to look at CGs. They buy it, at VERY HIGH PRICES mind you, to read the story of games like Tsukihime, Fate/stay night, Clannad, what have you.

They too, have the piracy option. And yet these companies obviously make a profit. Despite the piracy option.

The reason why these games wont make it in the western markets is...

Westerners dont read as much.

>> No.4323588

>>4323554
But english VAs fail at moe

>> No.4323598

>>4323588
Not all VNs are voiced.

>> No.4323611

>>4323584
This seems to be right on the money.

>> No.4323621

>>4323564
No, there are a lot of people who play these games but don't pirate.
Think about all the people who buy regular computer games or even music CDs in the West. Yeah, there are a load of people who pirate, but there are still more people who buy the stuff, out of either respect for the creators, habit from back in the days when games weren't so easily downloaded, (unfounded) fear of being busted for pirating, or simply not knowing how to download things from the internet.

In the West, the only way people get into eroge/VN/whatever is pretty much through finding out about them on the internet, and the communities that they find out about them from are all made up of people who pirate the games. But in Japan, eroge have been around since before the internet, and are just another form of media. Just because someone is an otaku doesn't mean he's a 2cher downloading all sorts of shit from the internet.

Everyone really needs to be more thankful to the ignorant people who pay money for data, it's thanks to them that we get everything for free.

>> No.4323618

>>4323598
True, but those tend to have even smaller markets unless you get lucky with a masterpiece like Tsukihime or Umineko

>> No.4323620

The fact that the medium is relatively unknown doesn't help much at all.
I imagine if a relatively famous/acclaimed author were to make a VN and it were to do well, there would probably be an explosion of sorts in the Western Market.

>> No.4323624

>>4323598
Having the option at playing voiced or not is definitely good though. Some people like hearing character voices.

>> No.4323635

>>4323572
You don't think that pirates buy games?
What do you think they spend their money on? Clothes?

>> No.4323642

>>4323618
>>4323624
That is true. I guess you'd have to deal with 'less moe' voices. Or just cute for american voices that fit the characters.

People new to the medium wouldn't have that much of a problem adjusting.

>> No.4323645

>>4323621
Not to mention that theres a stereotype...

Japanese program + Computer = Either hentai, final fantasy, resident evil, or some ninja game

I noticed when i talk to westerners online that are not from 4chan, the usual response is :

"Its a book? Written by a japanese? On the computer? IT MUST BE A HENTAI GAME LOLOLOLOL"

"But theres no sex in it!"

"Hentai game!!! LOL!!!!"

>> No.4323656

>>4323621
It's true, if you can pick up the VN you want on your way home from work instead of having to wait weeks for it in the mail must be another reason for low piracy rates in Japan.

>> No.4323669

>>4323642
When I combine the words cute and american something horrible comes to mind like Hannah Montana

>> No.4323672

The fact that the "VN" style format isn't used in the West is a bit of a shame, as the medium as a whole is a well on untapped potential.

>> No.4323676

>>4323669
Don't make me green text you. Hannah Montana isn't cute at all, though I know that is your point.

There has to be some VA's capable of it.

>> No.4323678

>>4323672
>untapped potential.
But we are talking about how North Americans don't read.

>> No.4323679

Here is a question :

Phoenix Wright does pretty well in the west. Why the fuck arent more VNs being created, capitalizing on Phoenix Wright's success?

>> No.4323690

>>4323678
Combine that with the earlier post about a big name writer, e.g. one that sells many many copies, and such, and we might just be on to something.

So first things first, is anyone here an acclaimed author?

>> No.4323698

>>4323679
So many american movies/shows are based on court and stuff(ex: CSI, Law & Order, Bones), something I see less often in Japanese entertainment. So, maybe it's a cultural thing?

>> No.4323707

>>4323656
>another reason for low piracy rates in Japan
iirc I saw some statistics implying that they pirate just as much as the average western country, if not more.
It was charts on the worlds overall net-activity. While net-activity alone isn't the same as piracy, filetransfers still makes up for the vast majority of all the internet activity of the entire world, as most other activities doesn't even come close most of the times. And isn't legal filetransfers still basically nothing compared to piracy?

Ihave always assumed that they pirate just as muchas westerners, and why would they be any different after all?

>> No.4323719

>>4323645
It always annoys me when someone calls even something like tsukihime a hentai game/porn with plot/etc.
Sure there's hentai in it, but those scenes account for, what, maybe 1% of the entire VN?
And they're censored at that.
They just take one look at these things and call them porn games.

It's like if I called the entire matrix trilogy a porno with plot because in one scene in the second movie neo and whatshername do it.
I'd be called a fucking idiot.

Then they see a VN that actually doesn't have porn in it so they can't call it porn with plot.
So instead they say some dumbass thing like "a porn game without porn? what's the point?"

ugh...

>> No.4323724

>>4323707
They do pirate just as much as westerners, it's just that there are so many more people playing eroge overall in Japan that they balance out the pirates.

Westerners pirate a hell of a lot of music but you don't see the music industry going under.

And to be fair most people in the eroge industry never make that much money anyway.

>> No.4323730

>>4323707
I'm not sure how accurate comparing net-activity to piracy is...

>> No.4323733

Just posting some interesting and relavant articles.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/01/03/siliconera-sounds-off-talking-localization-and-expansion-with-m
angagamer/

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/01/10/siliconera-sounds-off-why-some-visual-novels-never-get-localize
d/

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/01/17/siliconera-sounds-off-the-visual-novels-barriers-to-entry/

>> No.4323742

>>4323719
Actually I can't remember the last American movie that I have seen that didn't have a clearly shown sex scene. I think it's more the idea of "cartoon sex" that they don't like.

>> No.4323760

>>4323733
This is interesting, thanks anon.

>> No.4323766

>>4323478
>Was there really any other than MangaGamer and JAST?
Hirameki and Himeya.

>> No.4323787

Japan surely pirate stuff.
In genuine Otaku cutlure however, pirated stuff's value is nothing nothing compared to that of genuine bought copies, especially if it were some kind of special/limited edition and even more so if it came with some extra stuff.

There are always exceptions but the general dift is pretty much them pirating most stuff they can come over like in the west, yet spending all of their money on products related to franchises they are fans of, and not owning a legitimate product of the core of the franchise just isn't acceptable in a way.

This is what I have heard from japanese people myself, they might have been biased though but I don't see why they couldn't be right.

>> No.4323801

How's the VN market in China and Korea? They have official localisations?

>> No.4323815

Hey Anon, have you bought your copy of "Moon Princess" by Dan Brown?

>> No.4323831

>>4323730
>I'm not sure how accurate comparing net-activity to piracy is...
Well, neither do I.
But if I were to explain their reasoning, the ones who did the research that is.
Browsing the web basically doesn't require anything at all.
Online gaming isn't all that demanding either, it's just some values that are repeatidly exchanged.
The one thing that might even come close is basically online video/audio streaming, but even that usually doesn't come close to genuine filetransfers either unless several things are streamed at ones.
Then there is the legal/illeagal filetransfer thing and that you might interpret as you wish I guess.

But why wouldn't they be pirating as the rest of the world? I wouldn't buy some sort of crap stating that japanese people have higher morals when it comes to stuff like this.

>> No.4323836

>>4323815
Quick, someone e-mail Dan Brown the idea to make a VN, it'll sell millions. Thus opening up the medium to Western Audiences.

>> No.4323851

>>4323801
There are companies that do localize in China, I believe one even ported 11Eyes Crossover to the PC

>> No.4323856

>>4323836
Agreed, it'll be on the line of his books, that's to say HORRIBLE, so people will like even the worst VNs

>> No.4323858

Sarah's Song, by Stephen King.

>> No.4323869

>>4323858
mixed thoughts, maybe it would be better

>> No.4323872

I bet if J.D. Salinger was still alive, we could've convinced him via e-mail to write one, as after all from what I got from reading his works, he pretty much was one of us.

>> No.4323883

"Moonlight Carnival" by...STEPHANIE MEYER.

>> No.4323896

>>4323858
I've read in a preface to one of his Short Story collections that he's already made a visual novel, but I've never been able to dig up any more info on it than that.

>> No.4323906

>>4323801
The Chinese have pretty much all the Kid games translated.

The commercial translation companies in PRC are limited to the non-H visual novels due to no porn law.

>> No.4323907

>>4323896
This was in the preface to Everything's Eventual, if anyone cares.

>> No.4323921

Back when I was in high school, I knew a total of seven people who read visual novels.

>> No.4323925

>>4323831
>I wouldn't buy some sort of crap stating that japanese people have higher morals when it comes to stuff like this.

Well if we compare crime rate...

>> No.4323937

>>4323925
Nigger, spics etc.

>> No.4323944

>>4323937
That explains it.

>> No.4323951

Im sure white people dont commit crimes.

>> No.4323961

>>4323951
No one was implying anything of the sort.

>> No.4323968

>>4323951

They usually do, but the incidents go unreported, much in the same way that crime in Japan goes unreported most of the time so that it seems as if the rates of illegal incidents are low.

In reality you're just as likely to get stabbed in a dark alley in Japan as you are anywhere else.

>> No.4323976

Fuck dammit, can we please not derail into a stormfront thread?

>> No.4323975

>>4323921
I know now 3. And I'm attempting to spread it.

>> No.4323996
File: 16 KB, 360x240, facepalm aquateen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4323996

>>4323968
No, you're not.

>> No.4323999

>>4323968
Proof where? That's not the Japan I visited.

>> No.4324006

>>4323999
I suspect you didnt visit the gang areas.

>> No.4324012

>>4324006
No, they didn't seem to advertise...

>> No.4324014

>>4323999
Visit the major cities police stations and discuss reported and unreported crimes with them next time you visit Japan.

>> No.4324018
File: 52 KB, 604x456, drug dealer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4324018

>>4324006
>gang areas
WATCH OUT FOR THIS ANON FOLKS

>> No.4324022

There is no interest. There's probably around 1000 people in the west that would buy physical copies, out of say, 3000 worldwide (excluding Japan). I'm being generous with this, too.

>> No.4324031

>>4323462
I don't understand either. If it took a 3 man team 2 weeks and 5 grand to translate one, if they did a digital download for $25 they'd only have to sell 200 downloads to cover the cost.

>> No.4324043

>>4324031
5 grand? Thats highly unlikely.

3 people working for half a month. 5 grand has to cover their salaries. Then you have stuff like rent for the offices, electricity bills, website fees, bandwidth fees...

5 grnad might be possible if those 3 guys work for nearly nothing out of their homes....

>> No.4324046

>>4324031
What team was that?

>> No.4324058

I would love to see them introducing story based VNs to the video game market in the west, not to just the otaku community of sorts.

Imagine if you could buy Type-Moon stuff in steam, I bet people that buy adventure games or likes stuff like Phoenix Wright would at least give it a try.

>> No.4324067

What about someone localizing Rance?

>> No.4324070

>>4324067
Equality Now, etc.

>> No.4324080

>>4324070
Those 3D whores aside,
Who would buy a physical copy of Rance if it was localized?

>> No.4324093

>>4324080
Why would I do that when I can just buy the original games and apply a translation patch?

>> No.4324099

>>4324080
I know I would, for a physical product that is.
I will most likely never buy anything from Mangagamer as they don't sell such things.

>> No.4324152

>>4324099
>MG
First of all they don't sell physical products.
Second of all they still have the same price as physical products, what's up with that?

And some digital code barely has any collector's value compared to a physical product so I don't know why I should consider their products over physical products.

>> No.4324368

>>4324046
>>4324043
You don't think people in the community would accept a job to translate games from their own home like they do now, except now they're getting paid for it? I'm pretty sure it would be fairly easy to find people. Look what the guy from Dark Translations is doing.

>> No.4324672

>>4324368
I'd take that job in a second. I have experience as a professional translator BTW.

Do you have enough money to support me? Let's start a company, Anon.

>> No.4324865

>>4324672
Better idea is to start translating something big, and then hold the translation in hostage while making up some (bullshit) reason to acquire 'donations.'

>> No.4324882

>>4324152
When the market is so small and you're still in the red you have to minimize overhead as much as possible. If Mangagamer did physical copies they wouldn't be able to release as many games. Look at how Jast only releases one non-nukige a year.

>> No.4324890

>>4324080

Alice Soft already got plenty of my money with FREEing and Alter figurines.

That is another form of income, Alice gets/got at least a license fee from at least 4 companies (Alter, GSC, Kotobukiya and Grifon) just on Rance alone, Beat Blades Haruka also have 3 companies that released figurines on it.

>>
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