/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Shkanontrice can be denied in the second episode.
Battler sees the clear corpse of Shannon, yet he still meets Beatrice in the study.
Either a human Beatrice exists or Jessica is Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

Jessica is Beatrice.

[Anonymous2007 !7AnImelIIg No.]

>>4249416
Gohda is beatrice

[Suigin !fKazami5bE No.]

i am beatrice

[Milfeulle is my Waifu !iS.Yuri/S. No.]

you're mom is beatrice

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249414
The stake wasn't in her forhead and she laid face down.

I hate DID theory though.

[Anonymous No.]

Eva is Beatrice, Battler never saw her body in EP1, EP2 never gave any great details about what we saw personally (the state of the body we just assume he saw them torn open).
EP3 she lives & EP4 i don't believe we saw her corpse (but i could be wrong)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249414
>Either a human Beatrice exists
False.
>or Jessica is Beatrice.
Possible.

She could just be cosplaying as Beatrice and that crazy whore Shannon expired. Dumbass Battler is drunk at of his mind, and apparently Ryukishi thinks drunk = hallucinate, so it's dicey evidence at best.

[Anonymous No.]

just wait, they'll tell you that either.
-Battler didn't check the corpse (which i think he did better than in the other twilights, he saw Shannon with a hole in her head and the stake, which should be reliable enough)
-Shannon was dead and Beatrice was alive (the body was definetely dead and they spent quite some time, also Nanjo was dead so if she had been pretending, she couldn't be saved)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249439
I fucked you're beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

jessica is beatrice, she was alive and well.
We already concluded how did she do it

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249444
Wasn't she one of the six chosen to get shot in the face?

Bitch died at the very start of 4, if that's the case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249444
like, of course
sees her dead body in 1, 2 and 4

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249456
Did Battler see her body though?

[Anonymous2007 !7AnImelIIg No.]

>>4249450

[Anonymous No.]

Also for episode 4.
Battler finds Shannon's corpse with no weapon near it.
So she couldn't have committed suicide.
Maria died before Beatrice, Since her body was arranged to make it look like she was sleeping.
Jessica had no weapon near her either, So it must have been a human Beatrice or Kanon is Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249462
Well, he walked in and said they all had half their faces blown off, or something similar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249447
sorry, that's knox 10, she couldn't be disguising as Beatrice without CLUES. This isn't a probelm if she's the real beatrice, because in that case both shannon and kanon can be said to have clues to be the ones disguised as her

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249461
He never saw her body in EP1, he then stood in the hall & sobbed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249473
and then they entered in the room, George started crying
check the anime for that, has boob-diving george
>>4249468
Maria didn't die before beatrice, she's the one who collected the guns, after taht she drunk her poison and just embraced her mother, it wasn't arranged, her desire was to go with her mother to the Golden land so it was natural

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249468
Maria took the suicide weapon and put it somewhere.

In this case, it makes more sense for Jessica to be Beatrice yet again, because Maria would have to walk out to the fucking well area to get to Shannon, and Battler would notice her corpse soaked with rain.

So Jessica told Battler all that bullshit about George, which she knew because she shot him herself, then reported her own death, because she was going to do it herself. Maria was instructed to take the weapon after it was all said and done, and because she's a fucking moron, told to drink a "magic potion", or something similar.

The hole here, aside from fucking stupid, is Maria's hands were clasped together, I doubt she did that herself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249486
Battler never went in the room, Natsuhi, Jessica, George, Nanjo & Kanon left but Battler cried about how hard George had it, they decide to close the room for the police & it cuts back to the living room.

[Anonymous No.]

Shannon and Kanon and the servants are the only ones who can cosplay as Beatrice.
So Gohda is Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249468
>>4249486
Maria died on the tenth twilight.

Meaning she died at whatever kills the people in the end, meaning she died when Beato ressurected, meaning BOOM

So she might've not been dead yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249489
clasped together, like as praying?
normal, especially for kids

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249500
battler confirmed her death because he actually checked the corpses for once

[Anonymous No.]

Jessica is dead in episode 2 though.
And when Battler sees Shannon's body, there is a huge gaping hole in her head.
So the answer is easy, Shannon took Jessica's body and cosplayed it as her.
And to make sure nobody could recognize her, she did that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249454
>>We already concluded how did she do it
If you think about the insulin, it's impossible to do it that way.
Jessica can't be alive in episode 2.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249510
again, we already confirmed that jessica was pretending to be dead, really, just check the discussion
we came to the conclusion that since red presented a contradiction in the number of people in the room, jessica had been pretending to be dead with nanjo's help

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249513
then please explain to me
1-why doesn't the insuline work?
2-the contradiction in red text

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249514
Stop using "we", also only retards agreed that it's theory was possible.
Jessica was dead, CORPSE IN RED.
And no, insulin doesn't work that way.
There's no loophole there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249513
Bitch faked her death.
Ronove never said it was against the rules to call something other than a corpse, a corpse.
Major fucking hint there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249519
then the loophole of red please
also for Ryu i DOES work that way, just check ep6 and Erika AGAIN

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249410
Stop spamming and harassing www. anon
talk
.com

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249518
1- You need a big dose of insulin to work, it also has to be taken immediately after the death, it also has a big chance to fail and nobody could be up to kill people after that, you'd need days to recover.
In Jessica's case, it's impossible.

And there's no contradiction in the red text, corpse was used in red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249519
Ronove in the end of E5 said "But there is no rule for something other than corpse being called a corpse, missy".
That's explicitly implying that "When they found Jessica's corpse" in red does not confirm Jessica's death.

[Anonymous No.]

In reality, she should not be able to fake her death like that.

Of course, in reality, DID does not work the way Shkannontrice faggots are theorizing it, but it seems correct anyway. Ryukishi knows fuck all about the technical things, so I could see him writing something like LOL INSULIN OD, WITH DID MAID.

[Anonymous No.]

In EP2 Battler again never checked the corpses, for the first twilight this time (he did a detailed report in EP1 on EVERYTHING he saw), Beatrice even suggested it.
In that case we have to assume he saw the corpses all liveless & mutilated, if we're assuming stuff it's as bad as no evidence at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249534
You could do that with every corpses in the game then.
Battler saw her body up close, no way he could be fouled by a doll or something.
Only case it could work I can think of is Shannon's body in the shed in episode 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249536
Well yeah in both case it's stupid.
But at least the DID thing was foreshadowed.
Magical insulin that can revive people so easily? Not so much.

And I don't see why people want to use Jessica so much.
Episode 1 shows pretty well that she isn't the Beatrice of the gameboard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249413
Stop spamming and harassing www. anon
talk
.com

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249561
>And I don't see why people want to use Jessica so much.
The grim truth that there is no "real" Beatrice, compounded with Kyrie, Jessica, and Shkannon being the most likely to be the final boss.

Kyrie is likely his mother, so Ryukishi won't push a romance end with Battler on that front, Shannon seems to truly be in love with George, even if she is somehow the culprit, no insane maid ass for Battler, so really that just leaves Jessica.

I think it really boils down to the simple fact that everyone still thinks Jessica is a damn boring character, but we're not left with much else in the other ending options.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249553
No. There are only two cases where someone's death is confirmed so indirectly, and that's 2nd twilight of E2 and 1st twilight of E5. Jessica only has a stake in her back(you don't know how deep, but if it was like five centimeters, it's definitely possible to stick it in avoiding the organs). And Erika never looked at the corpses directly, so...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249573
Hideyoshi has a heavy foreshadowing to be an bussines enemy of Kinzo once, his death in E2 and E4 are safe, but he's still suspicious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249410
Stop spamming and harassing www. anon
talk
.com

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249577
Yeah forgot about episode 5, but only because it was damn obvious they were still alive.
But it doesn't work for episode 2, no doll could pass for Jessica like this, they were all next to her.

Oh and since Jessica's presence was confirmed in red, you think she was hiding somewhere in this room?
It's getting even more ridiculous.

Jessica couldn't have killed anyone in episode 1 and 3, why do you want to use her in episode 2 that could be much more easily explained.

Oh and one last thing, the Beatrice Kyrie and Rosa saw couldn't have been Jessica since she was with Battler at all time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249581
Yeah, I just find it hard to consider anyone with a penis anything more than a pawn in a Ryukishi novel, evil bitches seem to really turn the guy on.

[Anonymous No.]

Yeah, and golden butterflies exist and Kinzo is alive. Cool story, OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249581
But his death in EP2 is not safe, again even Beatrice suggested he checks the corpses (exactly like Erika would do) but he shuns away from it & everyone attention is directed to 3 gold bars & that letter.
They then lock the chapel, never directly confirming that Hideyoshi, Eva, Rudolf, Kyrie, Krauss & Natsuhi are dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249590
no, that's what Battler thought about the culprit, that he was hiding, that's why beato named everybody in the room at that moment, Jessica (supposedely dead) included

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249590
The actual body lying there is Jessica's. She just isn't dead.
It's just that a stake in the back can be faked by a simple theatre tools, if by nothing else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249596
for that murder, checking the corpses wasn't necessary.
he identified they were and that had sweets stuffed, they wouldn't survive, so he check is meaningless, is like finding a person with his intestines ripped, you wouldn't need to check it

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249604
Once again CORPSE in red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249608
Once again Ronove said it wasn't against the rules to call something other then a corpse, a corpse.

[Anonymous No.]

Episode 1 Beatrice - has to be Shannon or Kanon. (they are the same person, so basically, it was Shkannon.
Episode 2 Beatrice - Hallucination. Was probably Rosa if it was anyone.
Episode 3 Beatrice - Isn't one
Episode 4 Beatrice - Could be anyone, but she appears on the second floor balcony, not the third floor. Jessica's room is on the second floor.
No Beatrice in episodes 5 and 6.

There is no 19th person Beatrice. That has been told to you all along, but nobody listened. Myth completely dispelled with episode 6.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249608
and corpse means dead body, dowsn't talk about anything else
you just have to explain how can a corpse count as people,answer: because the person is alive, there's no option to that red

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249590
As for the Piece-Beato, no red and detective. But it's still implying something.

Which is why I treasure my side theory about actual piece Beato always coming on the island after first twilight.

[Anonymous No.]

Back to the Maria and Episode 4 conversation...

I find it very unlikely Maria could have posed like she was sleeping peacefully with her hands clasped over her chest after drinking poison. You'd be going into convulsions. Someone had to have posed her.

The problem is, then... who? If anyone suicided, the gun would be left- which it obviously wasn't. The only corpse not found is Kanon's (assuming, for a minute, if ShKanon isn't true for the sake of argument), but it can't be him since we know he died 9th.

So... What the hell?

The gun disappearing requires Maria.
Maria's pose requires another person.
Another person suiciding requires a gun.

There seems to be a huge contradiction here, unless Maria somehow DID lay that way and die while alive, which seems ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249605
Checking the corpses is always necessary, again Beatrice suggested he does exactly that otherwise it's quite easy to say they faked it, Exactly like EP5 first twilight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249618
Metal Gear Beato is as bad as DID maid, she's dead, Jim.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249613
I don't think beatrice was Rosa in ep2, I think the first part was true, Rosa, after everyone had dissapeared, went to get some gold and boom, no one knew where jessica was in that time

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249630
Jessica was dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249623
Maybe she ODed on sleeping pills, or something.

It is indeed bizarre though. If it was poison, I doubt she can snuggle up to her half faceless mother, clasp her hands together to her chest, and look like she is resting peacefully.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249613
He said that for Nanjo's autopsy, not for the fucking RED TEXT.
Red text is the truth, sophistry can't work.
A corpse is a corpse.

>>4249615
Red text doesn't work like this.
Jessica's dead body mean that she was dead, nothing more nothing else.

The other option would be her bringing a false corpse, that's probably what you are thinking of, it would technically be "hers".
Except it was proved in red that all the corpses used in the game are those of the people that appear in the story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249623
I never found her pose strange at all, she was maria, so I believe it was normal, as for the convulsions, maybe the poison wasn't that bad and her tips were right, she just fall asleep and died

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249615
That's the problem with how far you can go with red. There definitely are word games in red Beato uses, like "Everyone aknowledged Kinzo's presence", or the whole master key/bundle of copied keys thing. She seems to use those at parts where she really doesn't want him to find out the truth.
And Ronove's statement is nothing but a clue, seeing how it is really out of place in the battle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249641
>Maybe she ODed on sleeping pills, or something.

Would sleeping pills cause froth at the mouth?

Cause, IIRC, Battler said he saw some bubbles on Maria's mouth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249642
then please explain how she counted as people in the room

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249654
Yeah, he did. No idea, but I doubt it.

Maybe sleeping pills/muscle relaxants with poison? It'll be something stupid, I just know it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249654
a heavy intoxication would cause it
Rosa's sleeping pills would be enough

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249660
Wait, has Battler seen these sleeping pills?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249660

Wasn't it said she didn't have any, in Ep3, though?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249656
Corpses are counted all the time in Umineko, it's just to make sure.
Also they didn't count as people, just as "name", it's not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249660
I'm referring as adult, in a child, half the dosis would be enough to
I'm pretty certain people intoxicated by relaxing pills have foam in their mouths because the stomach is trying to reject them

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249653
Red text is always the truth, but yeah you can word play around it.
But corpse doesn't have any loophole.

For the other things like "Everyone aknowledged Kinzo's presence", it's easy to see the loophole.
Doesn't make it any less true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249667
The problem is that at the point where you can say "Jessica is in the room" disregarding that she is dead, so she has no presence, you can also say "Jessica's corpse" meaning the thing Jessica made to look like a corpse, that is, her body.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249664
in that episode, these things can vary, she was sure she had, so maybe someone stolen them from her in ep3
>>4249667
she didn't count just the names, she counted who was in the room by the time jessica's 'corpse' was found
she wasn't going to count her but red text forced her to, also the whole part about omitting 'and the corpse of' in the red should point that
people can be said are dead, but never count
Beato was referring to physical people in the room

[Anonymous No.]

Regarding the corpse issue:
The first twilight victims were called corpses, several times with the red text.
It's obvious that they faked their deaths.

Same can work with Jessica in EP 2.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249695
>The first twilight victims were called corpses, several times with the red text.
In which episode?

Episode 5: that was when they were really corpses, at 24:00 after the B0MB got them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249695
please specify the episode
if you're referring to ep1, plating around with the bodies should be forbidden
there's also how to scape from the shed, Natsuhi had the only key to the brand new lock

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249682
>>you can also say "Jessica's corpse" meaning the thing Jessica made to look like a corpse
Can't work with the red text, once again sophistry can't work.

The Jessica we saw was definitely a dead body, it wasn't anything else.

Also I just checked the red text and it's even easier to destroy you guys' theory.
"No one is hiding" in red.
But Jessica definitely is there "Jessica is also included".

So, if this corpse isn't her corpse and if she isn't hiding, where is she?
Remember that she HAS to be in the room.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249701
Episode 5.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249712
ok

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249703 Can't work with the red text, once again sophistry can't work.
I'll leave it with that I really can't agree with this point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249712
That was when they were really corpses, at 24:00 after the B0MB got them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249725
>>I'll leave it with that I really can't agree with this point.
You can disagree if you want, but you are disagreeing with the game itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249729
disagreeing with some of the basis of the game AKA beatrice twistes the red as much as she wants?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249732
The basis of the red is trust.
>AKA beatrice twistes the red as much as she wants?
Is what people who will never solve the mystery and just want to cast their favorite culprits as culprits want you to believe.
>the red is twisted to a minimum
Is the truth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249739
red text is twisted a lot, wight now you're making me believe that the person you don't want to be the culprit isn't the culprit, which is no different
in this case, beatrice twisted the red text to some degree to make jessica pass as a corpse when she wasn't
for me this works pretty well and is sustained by red text for the same reasons you say sophistry can't be used, and a continuity between games can be stablished, so I believe it because at least for me it makes sense and is quite believable

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249623
How close to the well did Shannon die? If I'm not mistaken, the well had a gridded lid rather than a solid one, because Battler was able to look down into it even though he couldn't open the lid (he couldn't see anything, of course, because it was to deep/too dark), so it's entirely possible for Shannon to set it up such that the gun would fall into the well when she shot herself.

...Wait a minute, didn't the culprit of And Then There Were None pull a similar trick?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249749
>red text is twisted a lot
Show me where.

Right now, you're trying to say that a corpse that Battler saw when he was a detective, that Beatrice called a corpse in red, was actually a living person.

Give me a precedent that shows the red can be twisted that much. Post red that you see as that twisted.

If you're willing to say "corpse" doesn't mean "corpse" in red, you may as well discard the red entirely. The red is a tool to help you solve the mystery. It isn't something for you to bend and say it means whatever you want it to mean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249764
Thank fuck someone finally said it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249764
ep3:
Kanon and Shannon are dead
they weren't dead, it was proved through the magic scenes taht they weren't dead, they have truth, so they did appear
the same with kanon is dead in ep2, if kanon is dead, it should really mean that kanon is dead in both body and soul, but by Shkanon we know that red was twisted and only referred to a personality
I think this kind of reds should really qualify as 'Beato twisting the red'
ep3: battler asks evaBeatrice to redtext jessica has not any other peronalities, she goes roundabout and negates her body killed, instead of negating the actual thing
Fact: if Battler doesn't check the bodies by himself like Erika did, performing some normal checks to ensure the body is dead, the detective authority is not exercised. It can work with shannnon in ep2 because battler genuinely checked that shannon had a deep hole in her forehead, and actually checked it from afar, with Jessica she was said she was dead and didn't even bother

There's no other explanation to that closed room
thx to ep4 red text: you are all alone on this island, we know people don't count, if they did, beato should have said 'you are the only person alive on this island', this proves that the fact: jessica is also included means that she had to be alive to count as people

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249799
>they weren't dead, it was proved through the magic scenes taht they weren't dead, they have truth, so they did appear
Fantasy scenes don't prove anything. There's no requirement for Shannon and Kanon to be alive.
>the same with kanon is dead in ep2, if kanon is dead, it should really mean that kanon is dead in both body and soul, but by Shkanon we know that red was twisted and only referred to a personality
Except Kanon never had a body to start with other than Shannon's. Since Kanon was only ever a personality in Shannon's body, it makes sense for Kanon dying to not necessarily mean a death of that body. This has been foreshadowed with Battler never seeing Kanon's corpse, and never seeing Shannon and Kanon together. There is however, no foreshadowing that a living person can be called a corpse.

>Fact: if Battler doesn't check the bodies by himself like Erika did, performing some normal checks to ensure the body is dead, the detective authority is not exercised. It can work with shannnon in ep2 because battler genuinely checked that shannon had a deep hole in her forehead, and actually checked it from afar, with Jessica she was said she was dead and didn't even bother
Erika did a whole lot less than what Battler did in Jessica's room. She purposefully paid no attention to scenes to allow a trick like that to be pulled.

>There's no other explanation to that closed room
What closed room?

>thx to ep4 red text: you are all alone on this island, we know people don't count, if they did, beato should have said 'you are the only person alive on this island', this proves that the fact: jessica is also included means that she had to be alive to count as people
What?

[Anonymous No.]

tips
http://www.wattpad.com/221082

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249799
Yeah, you are stupid.
The Kanon and Shannon dieing is just some I THINK THEREFORE I AM bullshit.
They died in the metaphorical sense, it's stupid but it doesn't contradict the red text.

You can't go around a DEAD BODY like this.

>>ep3: battler asks evaBeatrice to redtext jessica has not any other peronalities, she goes roundabout and negates her body killed, instead of negating the actual thing
She couldn't negate that an "other personality taking control of someone" could work.
Which is a big hint that ShKanon does happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>ep3: battler asks evaBeatrice to redtext jessica has not any other peronalities, she goes roundabout and negates her body killed, instead of negating the actual thing
Because she had previously said that Jessica's eyes were blocked. Anyone could tell Battler it's retarded to say another personality of hers could have done it when that personality would still have to use her body, which could not murder because of being unable to see. She didn't deny it because it wasn't necessary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249824
But why would Kanon (or anyone else) think BLARGH I AM THE DEAD for no apparent reason other than being a plot device?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249850
Episode 6 implies that it's an internal conflict of sorts, a struggle for supremacy amongst the personalities. A personality "dies" when it is forced into submission and absorbed into the personality that forced it into submission.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249850
Because Jessica was dead. Kanon is just a personality to love Jessica. It makes sense that if Jessica dies, he should die too, since he no longer has a use.

Consider this: Kanon is the 9th victim in episode 1.
First twilight:
1. Hideyoshi
2. Eva
3. Rudolf
4. Genji
5. Rosa
6. Natsuhi
Second twilight:
7: George
8: Jessica

9. Kanon, right after Jessica.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249867
That's Episode 4, you idiot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249861
So it's Xenogears' bullshit DID?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249875
No shit it's episode 4.

I'm saying he died right after Jessica not only in 2, but in 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249882
> Consider this: Kanon is the 9th victim in episode 1.
> episode 1

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249875
No shit it's episode 4.

I'm saying he died right after Jessica not only in 2, but in 4.

Episode 1 is a typo. He doesn't even die.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249878
Essentially.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm still supporting Battlertrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249878
Yeah.
Coward = Original Sayo
Fei = Shannon and Kanon.
Beatrice = ID.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249878

Pretty much.

As for those arguing for Jessica or Kyrie as the culprit, would you mind listing the most important shady lines/scenes that involve those two? I'm aware of what Jessica mentions in EP1 about Kinzo and both Jessica's and Kyrie's strange phone conversations with Battler, but those alone aren't enough to convince me they are more than accomplices, if that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249905
Both their phone calls, of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249909
Easily explained if they are threatened.
And Jessica's mention of Kinzo never hinted that she was lying about him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249905
Episode 5: Kyrie is probably the one who set up the man from 19 years ago plan to exploit Natsuhi, to try and get her to admit Kinzo is really dead, since she was getting her shady associates to dig up dirt on her.

Krauss wouldn't go along with an act like that though. So he was detained by someone and then killed. It seems like more than one person claimed to be the man though, because they use "ore" instead of "boku". Kyrie is still a pretty prime suspect for killing Krauss.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249909 Both their phone calls, of course.

>I'm aware of...both Jessica's and Kyrie's strange phone conversations with Battler

Anything else?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249914

Interesting theory, but I'm reluctant to jump to the notion that Kyrie is blackmailing people to that extent just from having a PI look into Krauss' businesses, as well as the fact that Kyrie left her family and most of her old ties probably wouldn't want anything to do with her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249931
That knock on the door never occurred, there's no red saying it occurred. Kyrie & co stuck with the story that they received that knock and forged that letter. A forgery from someone claiming to be Beatrice easily produced by that team could hint the one originally making the letters in earlier episodes is among them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249941

>That knock on the door never occurred, there's no red saying it occurred.

Can't really argue that, though it seems strange to me that anyone not on Kyrie's side would support her claim of a knock being there.

As for the letter, when did it enter the room?

[Anonymous No.]

So what do you think that "witch" really mean in Umineko?
Given what we saw, I think they all symbolize a strong emotion, but like all emotions, they can be very twisted.

Beatrice = Love
Bernkastel = Curiosity
Lambdadelta = Murderous intent
Eva-Beatrice = Greed
Goldsmith = madness(?)

Eva-Beatrice killing people in episode 3 probably meant that GREED HIJACK happened between the parents.
In episode 4, something happened that made everything go to hell with people killing each other and nobody trusting one another.
That thing was probably a video that Kinzo made before dieing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249953
There's no red about that. I say they just say the red occurred, and then forged that letter. Of course, it works to the benefit of Rudolf and Kyrie if Battler is considered the heir of the family.

The ring would have to be produced from nowhere. I suggest Krauss told Kyrie where it was before he died, perhaps it was on Kinzo's corpse and he told her where that was.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249915
Shannon and kanon are the type who are easily manipulated, not the other way around, there's no doubt there's someone behind them controlling them and telling them what to do
this person needs to know the island and be clever enough to design complicated closed rooms and also that has the trust from Shannon and Kanon separately and together. The third personality, in case bit exists, shouldn't be able to order them around
so because this is needed I propose jessica, the only person that has been constanly mysterious through every game (you can take ep2 if you want, someone probably manipulated rosa into believing she was the one directing all) and possibly fucked up enough to do it
Also, there's nothing pointing to Shannnon and Kanon being the culprits, being killers of course, but they can still be manipulated into believing the poeple they're killing are just bad people under culprit X command, which would relate to ep 1 and the later killings by possibly kanon

[Anonymous No.]

More evidence.

Episode 3: Nanjo has to have been killed by someone already dead. Namely, Kyrie, Rudolf or Hideyoshi, because all other deaths were confirmed well before Nanjo's in red. Of the three, Kyrie had the least fatal seeming wound (stomach, while Rudolf's was in the forehead, Hideyoshi's in the chest). I suggest Nanjo helped her fake her death and she later killed him to cover it up.
Eva probably isn't episode 3's culprit, as she was made out to be. Probably, the one who killed Nanjo was the main culprit. This works well if it's Kyrie. Why did Kyrie really leave for the mansion, knowing a murderer was on the lose? I say it was because she was the murderer herself, with Rudolf as her accomplice. The first twilight murders seem much like her doing, and Rudolf was the one who discovered Rosa and Maria's bodies, so he could have just killed them. Also, although the causes of death were confirmed, Rudolf took their corpses into an unused room in the guesthouse before anyone could get a good look.

Episode 4: Kyrie and Jessica both have those phone calls, but there are some more strange things with the calls. Battler is talking to Kyrie, and issues a threat to Kinzo, who is supposed to be keeping them captive. The narration says that without Kyrie even needing to repeat the threat, it reaches Kinzo's ears. Kinzo then replies and Kyrie tells Battler that he's more than up for the challenge or something. It could hint that the "Kinzo" in the scene is actually Kyrie, and it didn't need to be repeated because Battler said it to her.
Jessica is the first to speak on the phone. If she's involved in a conspiracy with Kyrie somehow, it'd made sense that both of them were the ones with the strange phone calls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249961
Ah..about the ring. Remember in one of the earlier episodes, Natsuhi and Krauss approached Dr. Nanjo about the ring. Nanjo said that he noticed something was astray when he last played 'chess with Kinzo'.

Natsuhi/Krauss then insisted that he shouldn't say things so carelessly. I remember someone posted the screencaps here. But it seems like they weren't aware of the location of the ring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249905
For Kyrie: She has been described to be able to be quite ruthless when it comes to things related to business and her family (to the point that even Rudolf is afraid of her). In Episode 6, she states that it was lucky Asumu died when she did, because she would have killed her if she hadn't died.

For Jessica: When you consider how Episode 6 effectively confirms Shkanon, she suddenly becomes very, very suspicious. In all likelihood, Jessica has been the one to place Kinzo's body in the furnace; in the first four Episodes, the only one in which Kinzo's body is not burned is Episode 2, which is also the only one of the first four Episodes in which Jessica dies early, and in Episode 6, her fight against Kyrie has her using flaming fists and hellfire.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4249993
Could be one of two things, him trying to support that the letter is from Beatrice, or him trying to subtly tell Natsuhi and Krauss that the ring went missing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250000
That isn't exactly what she said. Jessica says it's lucky for Kyrie that Asumu died, but Kyrie says it wasn't lucky at all, since she would have killed her anyway, her fate was unavoidable. Still boils down to her being prepared for murder, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250004
Oh yeah, could somebody post that screenshot which has Kyrie, Shannon, and Kanon in it, with Kyrie talking about love?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250008
What screenshot?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250008
this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250061
I'm not him, but he was talking about ep6 right before the battle with Jessica, there was one vap about it

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250078
No, that screenshot posted was indeed what I was talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250000
But her knowing about Kinzo & being the culprit makes no sense, all she has to do is take a photo of Kinzo corpse & hand it to Eva & her one motive to get of the god forsaken island is fullfilled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250263
the thing is that Kinzo's corpse should be hidden really well so no one can find it

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250270
So how does she burn it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250273
ah, you meant jessica, I thought you meant Kyrie
Jessica isn't interested in revealing Kinzo's death, Kyrie is
so she just burn it because it would be just problematic for the murders

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250283
But if Jessica is smart enough to carry out a large scale murder then she's smart enough to realise that if Kinzo dead(assuming she knows) & it hasn't been reported then it's being covered up.
After that all she has to do is reveal it, her parents suffer & she doesn't live on that island anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

None of your theories mean jack shit until you have motives.

[Anonymous No.]

remember when shkanon was a punchline?

[Anonymous No.]

Jessica:

Ep1:

-She's portrayed as being close to Maria (which is a important thing for whoever is beatrice, see all Episodes)

-She has issues with her mom(Natsuhi being victim of the culprit in EP5), gives her the scorpion charm and then in the next day Natsuhi wakes up with her door covered in blood, putting the scorpion charm as the suspect for ''saving Natsuhi's life''. The point is, the door was locked and the only one who knew about the charm was Jessica.

-For some reason she doesnt let Kanon speak in the beggining.

-Jessica is portrayed in a interesting way towards Beatrice and Kinzo (hating them with full force since the start of the episode).

-Its hinted that she had a miserable life

-Its hinted that she was pretty close to Battler when they were young.

-She's one of the few persons to see ''Kanon's dead body''.

-She could have placed most of Beatrice letters.

-In the end she isnt dead and even if she isnt the ''Beatrice'' Battler saw, she could've been helping Shkanon/Kyrie to commit the murders. There's no rule that prevents more than one person from dressing herself as Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

EP2:

-Its introduced that she has Love and jealously issues.

-She is very close to Shannon,its kinda impossible to Shkanon really exist without her knowledge of it.

-Its introduced that she has HEAVY family issues.

-She cosplays as Marisa (witch) in the school festival, it could've been regarded as a simple fanservice scene, but as Kanon doesnt exists at all it could be something more.

-Its implied that Jessica has one or more different ''jessicas'' inside her body, which are used the same way as the ''beatrice persona'' is used.

-When she ''dies'', her corpse is face down, the only one who comes close to her is Nanjo, for some reason even if Beatrice says ''corpse'' she never says ''Jessica is dead'' in red. If there's one death that is strange is that one of hers.

-Considering that she is alive the rest of the episode is a piece of cake.

EP3 -

-More is implied about her past with Battler, that they were close enough to brawl and fight all the time.

-Later, after the pony talk, Battler and Jessica have the ''girlfriend'' talk that is usually neglected. But if you read it considering that Jessica doesnt love Kanon, it can be interpreted that Jessica loves someone who's not Kanon and is in a 1 km radius from her. Also its noted that every time that Battler ''finds out'' that she loves Kanon, its him himself that goes into that conclusion.

-In this episode like in all the others Jessica dies after her parents, implying that nobody will ever hug her ''dead body'' or find out she's faking somehow.

-What happens to her in this episode is completely uncertain, but as she is blind that could be the reason why Eva manages to escape the B0MB or whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

EP4-

-Phone calls

-She acts in a very suspiscious way all over the ep.

-She could be very well the Beatrice who interrogates Battler (see ep5) and then she proceeds to kill herself afterwards.

-Her hate for ''Beatrice'' and Kinzo can be interpreted in the way she impersonifies Beatrice.

Ep5 -

-Phone call at the start of the episode
-Heavy connection to Natsuhi


Well, there are more examples, but this is what i have in my mind right now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4250714
She's insane hurr hurrr

Honestly. Most of the shit Kinzo does is explained with "He's crazy lol" so why not this too?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4251043
> but as Kanon doesnt exists at all it could be something more.
Except Kanon DOES exist. It's just that he exists in the same body as Shannon. And the creation of Shannon and Kanon was somehow related to Battler's sin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4251749
Battler flirted with Kanon while he was crossdressing, and Kanon, realizing he had finally found love, created the Shannon identity since it was the only way he could get closer to Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4251749
but as he explained, Jessica knows he doesn' 'exist' as a person

[Anonymous No.]

>>4251856
A better way to phrase that would be to say 'he doesn't exist as his own person', because he IS a person. He just doesn't have his own body.

If Jessica is aware of this, by extension it would make her a raging lesbian.
Why are you all trying to debunk delicious yuri? It beats George/Shannon by a long shot anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4251884
because it's obvious right from ep2 jessica doesn't have love feelings for Kanon
also at least Shannon and george make a cute couple (of yanderes)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4251749
Yes but following this line of reasoning its obvious that she would know that.
(Remember ep1 Jessica covering for Kanon)