/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

SO I AM SUPPOSED TO MEMORIZE 3 FUCKING THOUSAND KANJI IN ORDER TO LEARN JAPANESE

WHAT THE FUCK

[Anonymous No.]

Yes.

[Anonymous No.]

3 thousand? A lot more than that

[Anonymous No.]

I probably shouldn't tell you this because the culture here is to troll you and make you seethe more but the Kanji actually make the language easier to learn by serving as visual building blocks for every word. There's a reason azns don't drop the system altogether aside from the memes like gatekeeping and tradition.

[Anonymous No.]

not really

t. fluent in jap

[Anonymous No.]

That's not a lot, also you don't need to memorize that much

[Anonymous No.]

anon so cute
learning 3000 thounsands kanji is fast and easy
remembering ten of thousands of words isn't

[Anonymous No.]

anon so cute
learning 3000 kanji is fast and easy
remembering ten of thousands of words isn't

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
over 120 million japs have done it
why can't you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
you just let anki do it's magic

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
that's just the beginning

we gonna make it brah

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
You know 50,000 English words already. Another 15,000 isn't impossible.

[Unipux No.]

Like THIS

[Anonymous No.]

turns out practice is the way you learn new things, who woulda thunk

[Unipux No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>42395372
>>42395385
why dos she scribble on herself when she has perfet memory shes stupid lel

[Anonymous No.]

I wish it was possible to use kanji in speaking

[Anonymous No.]

>>42395372
>>42395385
You know I used to get drunk and spam porn like you. Those were the most regrettable years of my life. Do you need a friend or something? A hobby?

[Unipux No.]

>>42395943
Did you take an arrow to the knee?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396006
No I realized it was just emotional vomit that amounts to nothing. Years consumed by the Void.

[Unipux No.]

>>42396088
You mustn't have spammed hard enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396125
I spammed harder than any one man should spam. I could have died.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
good and bad news, you can learn all 40k+ kanji in existence and still not understand a thing in japanese
have you heard of Zipfs law? its the postulation that when observations (e.g., words) are ranked by their frequency, the frequency of a particular observation is inversely proportional to its rank. it occurs on a lot of things mind you, not just words, and it is actually very helpful to understanding how immersion, languages, and generally, human minds work
see, for a sentence to be coherent and have meaning to another human being, it must follow certain rules
if i say car is red, that means something. if i say car is gravity, that does not.
in other words, every word one says limits what every other word can be
the point of this is that our minds instinctively understand this (have you ever completed someone elses sentences, or predicted what someone is going to say, for example?)
to learn japanese you need to absorb sufficient context as to the cause effect relationship between every japanese word, and the world. or at least a lot of them.
kanji in itself don't have anything to do with it, even if you were able to read (knew the readings of every kanji in a game/song/whatever, ie, someone handed a romaji transcript) everything you want in japanese, without sufficient context it would make no more sense to you than the kanji do
also, kanji are actually comfy and easy to read once you get used to them. they have meaning and sound components in many cases which make their meaning and sound obvious even if you havent seen them before
if you want to learn japanese, picking a starter oshi and listening to her is probably a better way than memorizing the glyphs themselves.
that said it is the hardest language on earth
good luck bro!

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396165
>it is the hardest language on earth
Literally is not. It requires more time investment but if you love it then this isn't an issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396296
>Category IV Languages: 88 weeks (2200 class hours)
>“Super-hard languages” – Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers.
>Arabic Chinese – Cantonese Chinese – Mandarin Japanese Korean
https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/
of those, japanese is considered the hardest.
agree that its merely a matter of time and input, however getting that much input is itself difficult, love it or not, as human available time is finite
fortunately, japanese is also the languahe with the coolest stuff to immerse in

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396366
guess i should add on why japanese is so hard, as that's actually sorta cool, too
while most every other language in existence is related to other languages, japanese is a language isolate with no relationship to any other language on earth other than its own dialects.
this means that unlike romantic or germanic languages where one may share words and grammar and thus familiarity with them, making picking them up easier, Japanese was handed down by Amaterasu, and has nothing to do with anything else. chinese kanji are used with it as a historical accident but they are used in a very, very different way in japanese than they are in chinese

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396366
That overused to hell and back ranking is estimations specifically for native English speakers on average. Speakers of other languages have different linguistic baggage and will find different languages harder or easier, and there's also individual variances in learning varying structures. Also it definitely throws in added difficulty of learning kanji script, and I bet there's a bunch of factors baked in that doesn't relate to language itself, from etiquette to wholly unrelated cultural bullshit and simple stereotypes. Finally - that's only major languages, there's thousands more, some of those with grammar more complex and/or unlike any single language listed, just no one cares about those minor and probably dying tongues (look at some Native American languages for example).

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396437
yoo that's why i posted >>42396436 it is using "to native english speakers" as shorthand for "to non native speakers" !
anyway i don't have a strong opinion, that is merely an authoritative source, if you want to say japanese is easy, more power to you

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396436
>Japanese was handed down by Amaterasu, and has nothing to do with anything else
Meanwhile actual linguists have worked out Altaic theory long ago, even if it has its problems and isn't well accepted in western historical linguistics circles, more due to general opposition to macrocomparativistics and overreliance on typology over lexicon
Btw I love how on wikipedia one sperg defiantly stands on watch over almost a decade against scores of lesser, saner people, flipping Campbell and other opposed to Altaic just on principle left and right. Mind that if you go to wiki and look at discussion page by yourself to enjoy

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396484
i am partial to Amaterasu theory personally it has 0 problems, and is very cool
its also a clear, concise explanation to offer about any "why is japanese like this" sort of question
"because Amaterasu willed it so"

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
Don't even bother, there's more and more Japs learning English every day than gaijins learning Japanese. And AI translators will make learning a language obsolete soon anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396577
(not op) I don't want to read translations, I can already do that, I just like the way japanese sounds and want to understand it, but it's fucking hard

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396663
based GMI!
the only reason japanese and the things in it you like even exist is because its fucking hard
be grateful
people like you can and will make it!
good luck bro

[Anonymous No.]

I'm currently at just over 2000 kanji, and around 12,500 words after having been studying for three years now. Feels like I'm 95% finished with (useful) kanji but not even halfway through all the words I need to have even a decent grasp of the language.

[Anonymous No.]

It's an honour and a pleasure to memorize moonrunes. If you don't get this you will never make it - you will always be a normalnigger.

The trick is to take it easy and enjoy learning a non-pig disgusting language.
>>42396663
You are going to make it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42395943
>>42396088
"emotional vomit?" Nigger please. The great thing about anon is that you can get in touch with chaos when you need to.
You can leave perfectly coherent, well thought out replies one evening, and get shitfaced drunk and shitpost all night the next. It's fantastic. It's healthy. It's human.

No need to sound like a moralfag redditor. (I didn't see those deleted posts btw) Don't loose touch with chaos, anon, for you will break the divine link and become a faggot like everyone else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42397013
I agree that it is human but it can become an addiction. It's not about morals it's about wasting time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396917
>It's an honour and a pleasure to memorize moonrunes
Agree, I think moonrunes are very cool. Thanks China

[Anonymous No.]

Remember: It's not only about memorizing Runes, but also the context and grammatical structure they are bedded into.

"Apple" and "tree" can also imply to a monkey tail, catalytic converter or wooden weapon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396858
>useful
closer to 3k
that said at that point you can probably watch and read and listen to anything you want
good job bro
>>42397424
出て can mean both leave and come... strange languahe

[Anonymous No.]

>>42397545
I would stuff this vtuber's mouth of semen until she is unable to speak

[Anonymous No.]

>>42397566
we have so much in common!

[Anonymous No.]

>>42397566
wait no, youd stuff her mouth with, not of, her mouth is not made of it
oh
you mean after i go
well okay!

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
It's a known fact that not even the japanese know all of the kanji, so don't worry about not knowing every single scribble of moon runes

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396366
>korean
This list is probably taking speaking the language as a bigger factor than reading and understanding it. Korean is supposedly really easy to understand and write because they dont use bullshit borrowed ancient chinese hieroglyphs, but hard to pronounce with a native english tongue so they put it in category IV. I imagine arabic and chinese is also up there partly because of how hard it is to speak. Japanese is harder than korean but definitely easier to read, understand and speak than the others.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42406780
the hieroglyphs make japanese easier, not harder
a wall of romaji is 9999999 times harder to decipher

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
better off to learn Thai or Cambodian, way more hot girls not infected with western weeb attention, much more rewarding to learn those languages and be in a very small elite of western dudes

[Anonymous No.]

are you supposed to memorize the kanji individually or do you just memorize the words that are made with the kanji

[Anonymous No.]

>>42406794
>better off to learn Thai or Cambodian, way more hot girls
i hate to be the one to break it to you anon, but those are all men

[Anonymous No.]

>>42406839
memorizing kanji individually is largely useless, japanese is a quantum based language, the reading of a kanji depends on the sentence, mood of the reader, compound, custom, phase of the moon, etc
most kanji have several readings which collapse into a single one when observed, while some are more common than others, memorizing the words tends to be more useful
theres also a lot of kanji that afe only used as part of one, or a few words, and although they will also have an individual reading, its not something anyone will ever see
in light of that, its usually better to learn japanese, then learn kanji, or do both at the same time, as if you know what the phrase is the kanji is encoding, reading the sentence will be trivial, but even if you have the right readings, they will do you no good if you do not know what the sentence means
tldr: do hukumusume, hololive, easy anime, podcasts, whatever, and get a feeling for the language before getting too obsessed with learning all the kanji, it is not as useful as people tend to think starting out

[Anonymous No.]

3k is 99% of all you need.

also it's called spaced repetition software and Heisig.

While you're at it, read The Memory Book.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42396366
>exceptionally difficult for native English speakers
>mfw ESL

[Anonymous No.]

>>42407062
si este anon gano
todos vamor a hacerla!

[Anonymous No.]

>>42406852
that is such a low effort low IQ lame thing to say, even the idiot fools that barely know how to use a smartphone spurt that garbage meme

[Anonymous No.]

>tfw I memorized 1000+ pokemon so I imagine kanji the same way and it becomes easy

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
Can you count all of the English words and phrases you have memorized?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42413740
way way harder

[Anonymous No.]

you memorized english, just do it, faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42422848
the writing system in relation to the grammar is much more difficult than English, even Japanese people will tell you this

[Anonymous No.]

>>42423036
its actually much easier, just unknown to you
in english each word is a different combination of 26 glyphs and you have no clue what they mean or how they are pronounced when you first find them
in Japanese, each kanji has a sound and meaning component, and although theres way more (3 k or so useful ones), for most words the meaning can be extracted even if its the first time one has seen the word just from its components

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
"Japanese" is just a big prank they're playing on ignorant foreigners. They use English when nobody's watching.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42423111
this is a ridiculous take

[Anonymous No.]

>>42423860
ridiculously good

[Anonymous No.]

>>42413740
it'd be more like memorizing every digimon and the digimon that they can digievolve to.

[Anonymous No.]

Grammar is the hard part I can't understand it even though I know the vocab

[Anonymous No.]

>>42426014
Considering the state of your grammar in English, I can see why you may be having trouble.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42426090
this is what you call native level grammar

[Anonymous No.]

>>42426099
>native level
What, are you aboriginal or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
You need to learn more so you can annoy Japanese people with readings they won't know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42426014
>>42396165
learning the grammar itself wont help that much, you need to listen/read enough that you can decode it on the fly
theres no shortcut sadly

[Anonymous No.]

>>42397013
Wrong, nigga. Ironically years of spamming vitriol is is equivalent to practicing to be a asshole manbaby. Being anon can protect you from others…but it can’t protect you from yourself. That’s why I put effort into my shitposting, and try not to sperg.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42426562
and a lot has to do with one's verbal aptitude, for many, they can study for 5 years every day and still not get fluent

[Anonymous No.]

>>42434003
i think its just a matter of time and overcoming inertia
i have been at this for a little over a year and can understand anime, vidya, manga, and most things im interested in (within reason)
you just have to put time every day
there is no real shortcut, the issue is not with memory, but with how the brain fundamentally works, nothing from any other language is portable, so even if you memorize all the grammar, it feels wrong, just because of how alien it is
but eventually, one day it just makes sense
im not a genius by any means
what im saying is, a lot of people seem to get discouraged, or just do anki and quit, or get frustrated, and the reason they don't make it is not that they are stupid, but that they gave up, if that makes sense?
theres retards in japan
and they are retarded in perfect japanese
compared to them the average jp bro is a genius
its all about perseverance

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394618
>anki
Every time I try to figure out how to configure that shit I give up, I just use a spreadsheet and a random number generator.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42434237
you don't configure it you just set max reviews to over 9000 and do them

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
Yes, that’s how you usually learn a language.

[Anonymous No.]

Way better investment of your time an effort than Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>42450678
>Japanese is a better investment of your time than Japanese
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42406791
Kill yourself avatarfagging holoteen

[Anonymous No.]

>>42394264
https://tatsumoto-ren.github.io/blog/learning-kanji.html