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4228086 No.4228086 [Reply] [Original]

Who is Battlers mom?

I nominate Virgilia. She's always looking out for him.

>> No.4228091

>>4228086

It's Kyrie.

>> No.4228122

>>4228091
EP3 spoke about her having a high magic resistance or something, so i can sort of buy this.

>> No.4228131

>>4228091


Kyrie had a miscarriage, you fucking idiot. Her son does not and never did exist.

>> No.4228159

>>4228131
OR DOES HE

>> No.4228172

http://www.needjav.com/showthread.php?tid=671

>> No.4228175

>>4228131
Kids got swapped, Asumu didn't have a child.

>> No.4228324

>>4228175

This is a nice theory, but it hasn't been confirmed, has it?

>> No.4228332
File: 358 KB, 650x532, wink mit dem zaunpfahl.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228332

>>4228324

No but Episode 6 kinde shoved into your face.

>> No.4228335

Rosa is his mom, only because it makes incest route twice as good.

>> No.4228364

>>4228131
Wow some your like the startreck nerd who rages over the stupid stuff. He was probably joking too.

>> No.4228439

>>4228332

I wouldn't say so. She certainly talked a lot about her, Rudolf, and Asumu, but she didn't really talk much about Battler.

>> No.4228443

>>4228439
She rarely talks about Battler, but she mentioned the source of his phobia, considering Asumu fear was bullshit i found that scene a little strange.

>> No.4228447

>>4228439

She even once said "If only Asumu would have been the one to miscarry"... Well I kinda think it pushes us into this direction.

>> No.4228458
File: 219 KB, 1000x730, 0d25c0bfd6b14c5796160c3219849cd4cf311826.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228458

Regardless of if Kyrie is Battler's mother or not... the scene the two of them had over the phone in EP4 was really sweet. ;_;

>> No.4228463
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4228463

>>4228458
She really believes in magic.

>> No.4228471

Okay but seriously, it is not like there are any likely candidates with a logical explanation to be Battler's mother.

>> No.4228508

>>4228471
If we use people we know about,
I can't be,
Rosa,Eva, Shanon, Kumasawa & Ange.
Which leaves,
Natsuhi, Kyrie , Kasumi or throwing it out for max bullshit Beatrice.

>> No.4228514

>>4228508
What about Kinzo? I wouldn't put it past him to bear a child on his own.

>> No.4228526

>>4228514
So that's why Battler is just like Kinzo, he's a clone of Kinzo made via fission. Never mind that fission only occurs in single celled organism as well, I wouldn't put it past Kinzo.

>> No.4228544

>>4228131
Oh come on, they both delivered on the same day. That is the most obvious setup ever.

>> No.4228565

>>4228544
But she doesn't even have red hair! These genetics are bullshit!

>> No.4228566
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4228566

>>4228544
Or Rudolf is the biggest bastard you will ever meet.

>> No.4228597

>>4228566
I am Jack Bauer. Always in a big pinch...
I am Jack Bauer. Impregnating two women at the same time...

>> No.4228602

>>4228565
I doubt 07 really cares about genetics since they are all supposed to be Japanese, but blonde genes are dominant over ginger so it may be possible for her to have redheaded children.

>> No.4228611

>>4228565
But Ange has red hair and she's Kyrie's daughter.
Unless she was also swapped, somehow.

>> No.4228623

>>4228565

Black Hair (Rudolf) + White Hair (Kyrie) = Red hair

Ange agreed, don't bother her about it.

>> No.4228633

>>4228611

BABYSWAPPING

IT'S AN OLD USHIROMIYA FAMILY TRADITION

>> No.4228644

>>4228633
Well it's better than the Sonozaki tradition.

>> No.4228675

>>4228611
Actually, Batler and Ange look enough alike it's hard to image them as half sisters. It's fucking anime of course, so I don't expect people to look like real life.

>> No.4228687

>>4228623
That's not how ninja work! Then clearly, they must be... Mages!

>> No.4228713

The Ushiromiya are a bunch of inbreed hillbillies.

>> No.4228721

>>4228713

I finally got it: Kinzo fathers all children of the Ushiromiya line himself!

>> No.4228755

>>4228611
Battler is her father, of course. That's where she gets the red hair from.

There was actually a minor genetic discussion here yesterday that basically came to the conclusion that Rudolf's hair is such a dark red that it looks brown/black. It was probably brighter when he was younger.

Said discussion turned into talking about how much of a pussy Kinzo was back in the day and how Battler is a pretty cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything but boats, though.

>> No.4228765
File: 106 KB, 750x1082, 22.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228765

>>4228755

But young Kinzo is so moe. ;_;

>> No.4228771

>>4228721
He's the father of all the 18/17 persons on the island, maybe he is the father of him himself.

I wouldnt put it past him

>> No.4228777
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4228777

>>4228771

No, anon, Kinzo is YOUR father.

I wouldn't put it past him.

>> No.4228781

Battler is Kinzo's clone

>> No.4228787

>>4228777

There's no magic, only the force. Also Kinzo became one with the force aka Beatrice.

>> No.4228791

>>4228771
maybe he's Fry

>> No.4228797

>>4228777
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT CANNOT BE.

hey...wait...yeah, i think its kind of awesome to have Kinzo as father.

If he was my Father thinks would have been different here.

I wouldnt put it past him.

>> No.4228799
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4228799

>>4228791

>> No.4228806

Also what hair color did Kinzo have when he was young?

I mean his children have brown (rudolf), orange (eva), blonde (krauss and rosa)

>> No.4228811

>>4228806
Rosa is light brunnette

>> No.4228813

>>4228806
>Also what hair color did Kinzo have when he was young?

Rainbow hair that changes color according to his mood.

...Speaking of which, is there a furry version of Kinzo yet?

>> No.4228814

>>4228777
"You told me Kinzo was dead!"
"Kinzo was seduced by the dark power of crossdressing. He ceased to be Kinzo and became Beatrice. When that happened, the crazy old coot who was your grandfather was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."

>> No.4228829

Kyrie hair is red, but she bleaches it.
Then all of the Hair color problem are solved

>> No.4228839

>>4228829
Everyone's hair is black, they are just bleaching it

>> No.4228843

>>4228829
and Kasumi's?

>> No.4228848

>>4228843
Its a tradition from sumadera family to bleach your hair white as white is a color that symbolizes purity and wisdom.

>> No.4228861
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4228861

Are we really discussing anime hair and the realism of it?

>> No.4228865

But why would they swap kids. I dont think rudolf was even married when they all had their children.

>> No.4228866

>>4228848
can't we just say that people from the sumadera family have this gene that makes their hair white in their 20s?

>> No.4228883

>>4228865
Because ASUMU HIJACK LOL!
We dont know much about Asumu, but if she was from a influent enough family she could have done that so that Rudolph married her (or pressioned Kinzo to do that somehow)

>> No.4228889

>>4228865

It was like this: Rudolf was dating both Kyrie and Asumu at the same time and got both of them pregnant. However Kyrie who had business relations with Rudolf and worked as his partner tried to hide her being pregnant as she thought it wasn't befitting of her. Also she was late to notice it.

Asumu on the other hand who was playing a girlish role immediatly told Rudolf of the pregnancy who, as a man, felt he had to take resposibility and agreed to marry her. He didn't learn of Kyrie's pregnancy until after he had Asumu entered in the family register.

Then they both deliviered COINCIDENTALLY on the same day. And "Kyrie" had a "miscarriage".

>> No.4228890

>>4228866
That would be no fun.

>>4228839
I think the biggest problem here is not their hair color, but their eye colors.

Japanese + blue eyes = wtf?

>> No.4228903

>>4228890
Eva and Kinzo have violet eyes
George green

>> No.4228905

>>4228889
Ange told Battler that Kinzo was his grandfather when beato tried to fuck with him telling him he wasnt asumus son right. Or was it revealed he was Rudolfs son.

>> No.4228913

>>4228905
she stated in blue that bttler was Kinzo's grandson, she couldn't deny it
but still... it's messy

>> No.4228930

>>4228905
He's Rudolf's son and Kinzo's grandson/time travelling alternate personality created by Kinzo back in the day, when he was sick of being made fun of by the dapper motherfucker known as Nanjo, and he made a new, more badass personality to revel in.

>> No.4228935

Have we actually been shown Asumu at all?

I have a feeling that his mother could actually be Rosa, there's something about the way Kinzo supposedly treated her - calling her filthy etc, that seemed really strange. Perhaps it's because of incest.

>> No.4228944
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4228944

>>4228935

Do want. Rosa X Battler is adorable, for some reason.

>> No.4228948

>>4228364
You misspelled startrek on purpose just to piss me off.

>> No.4228950
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4228950

>I nominate Virgilia. She's always looking out for him.

>> No.4228960
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4228960

>>4228950

It's true. Remember in ??? for episode 5, where at the start she's like "Geez, you shy kids are so silly", and gives Battler the "cruth of confidence" by saying in red "Beatrice wanted you to solve the mystery".

And her evil parts in the story is obviously a facade.

>> No.4228967
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4228967

>>4228960

>> No.4228972

>>4228935
Rosa had maria out of wedlock, which makes her a filthy whore.

>> No.4228973
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4228973

>> No.4228974

>>4228960
I really want a show down between evil Hanyuu & Virgilia.

>> No.4228993
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4228993

>>4228967
>>4228973

You seriously expect Evilia to be true?

Although if that were to happen R07 would seriously have trolled me. She's the only character that doesn't change sides every 10 seconds.

>> No.4229021

>>4228993
Well, her and Hanyuu indeed do have a similliar role.

And Hanyuu was really good at facading. Remember, in Saigoroshi she even managed to win over Bern. It's really well written that you have to first read a random TIP in the middle of game to get what is actually up with Hanyuu.

>> No.4229032
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4229032

>>4228993

>> No.4229033

>>4229021
> It's really well written that you have to first read a random TIP in the middle of game to get what is actually up with Hanyuu.
Summary, please?

>> No.4229034

>>4229021

What? Bern never appeared directly in Rei, did she? I thought she were only talked about.

>> No.4229037

Son of Kinzo and Beatrice.

>> No.4229060

>>4229033
second

>> No.4229067

>>4229033
I want to know about this.

>> No.4229083

>>4229034
Oh god, there are even parts where she screams "I am no fucking Rika, I'm Bernkastel!!!" out loud.

>>4229033
It's Rika's mom's journal. In the anime she is never talked about, but Rika's mother was a desperate woman who had to take care of the family and nobody ever helped her with anything - plus she was really scared of her daughter who was loved by everyone for no reason at all and obviously at times knew things nobody was supposed to know.

While in Saigoroshi-hen, Rika's mother is the reincarnation of Oyashiro-sama herself. (Not to mention she is a totally different person who loves her familyn whole heartedly).
But in Saigoroshi-hen, nobody fights against the dam and sir 123 never researched the syndrome. Nobody even knows what Onigafuchi was.
So, in this world, there is no Syndrome. Yet still it is somehow connected to Hanyuu and Oyashiro-sama kinda exists. And out of all things, Hanyuu wants Rika to kill her mother, in other words 'kill what she used to be.'
Add a few other strange things about Hanyuu. Like, that she must have known that by following people and apologizing, she drove people insane, deepened the syndrome in them and was inducing the murders herself, yet she still kept doing so. Or the cursed deaths in Tatarigoroshi that seem to really work to make people worship Oyashiro-sama.
And finally, the story about Hanyuu's daughter cutting her down. See, Oyashiro-sama's reincarnation is eight firstborn girl. The Syndrome seems to work because of that. Hanyuu's daughter seems to also be the eighth. Yet still, she wants Rika to kill her mother who should not be doing anything, who is not the eighth.
However you want to wiew it, she wants to be the one, absolute Oyashiro-sama in as many kakeras as possible.

>> No.4229085

>>4228883
Battler said that Asumu's grandparents are more average, compared to the Ushiromiya family. She wasn't an affluent or rich person.
>>4228935
lol rudolf/rosa.

I mean really, Rosa was like 12-14 when Battler was born.

>> No.4229090

>>4229083
So... the world of Saikoroshi-hen really wasn't a dream, despite Hanyuu saying it was?

>> No.4229094

>>4229090
Nothing says Hanyuu wasn't just lying to make Rika feel better. If it wasn't a dream that would mean Rika actually did murder her mother.

>> No.4229110

>>4229083
It's shit like this i wish DEEN wouldn't leave out.

>> No.4229122

>>4228086
Kyrie who is also Beatrice who is also in love with Battler :3

>> No.4229125
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4229125

>>4229122

>> No.4229126

>>4229110
Don't forget how they completely wrote out Bernkastel, and only made a single mention of her in Rei.

>> No.4229130

>>4229090
The point is, that whether it's a dream or not, it's the moment when Bernkastel separated from Rika.

The name Bernkastel actually comes from the exquisite wine Rika has at home and drinks at all kakeras. Bernkastel is "the one who drinks the wine and ponders about how is she going to die this time". And because in Matsuribayashi the wine is already drank and Rika is propably not going to die soon, the dream is a way in which Bern separates.

But that dream is a way for Hanyuu to beat Bern, to ridicule her, because she knows Bern grew strong. See Featherine-Bern interactions in E6.

There is a lot of ways to wiew that arc, really.

>> No.4229134

>>4229130
> But that dream is a way for Hanyuu to beat Bern, to ridicule her, because she knows Bern grew strong. See Featherine-Bern interactions in E6.
...Goddammit.

>> No.4229144

So Umineko & Higurashi do have quite a few connections even if it's just in the meta world.
But the question is, do Higurashi & Umineko have any connections on the gameboard?

>> No.4229145
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4229145

>>4229130

Is Featherine = Hanyuu true though? Their releation hasn't really been confirmed.

>> No.4229146
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4229146

>>4229083
>>4229130
What a bitch.

>> No.4229150
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4229150

>>4229144

WELL...

>> No.4229151

Well, here's my theory.
Battler's sin was comitted on the island six years ago.
Many Shkanontrice point to the pony thing as his sin, but quite frankly, promising a girl off-hand as a joke isn't a sin, and also, it doesn't become a sin until years after the fact.

The sin has to be an act, a bad act, comitted on the island 6 years ago.


Therefore, I propose Battler fucked Rosa, who end up concieving Maria.

>> No.4229155

>>4229151

Sexy theory, but Battler would have to be a shota like in the OP pic. Can so young boys impreginate women? Seriously, I forgot.

>> No.4229156

>>4229151
maria was already alive for three years. try again.

>> No.4229157

>>4229150
I'm hoping he's just a guy running Hideyoshi buisness whilst he's away, but god damn if he's sat in the middle of the sea with a harpoon & scuba gear.

>> No.4229158

>>4229150
Umineko's Okonogi is sexier.

>> No.4229166

>>4229155
He was 12. It's possible.
Although, seriously, I think the sin he comitted had to be worse than mentioning the pony thing. That's not a sin by any account.

>> No.4229167

>>4229145
> Their releation hasn't really been confirmed.
Featherine Augustus Aurora.

Misstated as "Featherine Augusauau" at one point, then as "Featherine Auaurora" by none other than Bernkastel. Featherine corrects her, but states that it's nostalgic.

Also:

> Featherine
> feather + in

> Hanyuu
> 羽入
> 羽 = "feather", 入 = "in"

And finally:

> 八城十八 (Hachijou Touya [Featherine's "human" form])
> 八城 can also be read as "yashiro"
> Hanyuu = Oyashiro

>> No.4229168 [SPOILER] 
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4229168

>>4229158
Just wait till you see Rosa ex.

>> No.4229172

>>4229166
The idea is the sin wasn't the promise itself, but what the promise indirectly caused to happen after it.

>> No.4229185

>>4229172
Nah, I'm not buying it. He's stated to have sinned, on that day. He was a boy of twelve, saying he'll be mounted on a white horse is not evil. A sin has to be something that goes against your conscience. I sincerely doubt it's as simple as ZOMG BATTLER SAID HE'D COME ON A PONY WHEN HE WAS TWELVE THIS JUSTIFIES SHANNON IN KILLING EVERYONE.

>> No.4229188

>>4229166
> Although, seriously, I think the sin he comitted had to be worse than mentioning the pony thing. That's not a sin by any account.
It's not explicitly stated, but you can gather from Episode 6 that Battler's sin is what caused Shannon and Kanon to be created. And you're forgetting that Battler's sin was forgetting something; what he actually did wasn't necessarily bad. He merely forgot something. And we know from Episode 5 that what he forgot was most likely a promise. And the person who created Beatrice created her to take on their love for Battler in their place, and to wait for Battler to fulfill his promise.

Sorry, bro, but it's pretty clear-cut at this point, unless R07 decides to pull a crazy troll move.

>> No.4229192

>>4229185
No. HIS SIN WAS FORGETTING WHAT HE DID.

>> No.4229200

>>4229188
In addition: It was never stated that Battler's sin was directly responsible for the murders. It merely created a "wiggle" in the cogs, something that created an opportunity for the murders to occur. As well, it was stated that there were other factors involved that contributed to the murders occurring. Battler's sin is only a small part of it. But that small part is still very important to Beatrice.

>> No.4229201

>>4229192

HOLY FUCK A 12 YEAR OLD BOY FORGOT THAT HE PROMISED A YOUNG GIRL HE WAS GONNA APPEAR BEFORE HER ON A PONY.

IT'S HIS FAULTH PEOPLE DIED.

For once, I WOULD put it past R07 to do this.

>> No.4229207

>>4229188
Meh, even if you do want to force the idea that Battler making a small statement when he was twelve somehow shattered Shannon's mind, the logic behind it is also lacking. I believe the red text stated that the person in question could not obtain Battler's feelings, and, correct me if I am wrong, Battler's first love was Shannon.
Also, the whole concept of creating a persona to love Battler, that, I can understand, but when Shannon conciously helps out Beatrice, well, that's just impractical. Shannon, Beatrice, and Kanon interact with each other, so why would Shannon create a persona to dump her feelings, if she is just going to assist said persona in obtaining the feelings anyways? If Shannon FORGOT about the Beatrice persona, I could see things working out, but it really is needless. These things bug me, you know.

>> No.4229212

>>4229192
Wait, but he remembers what he did, they(Shannon and Jessica, or perhaps just Shannon, I believe?) blatantly tell him he said he'd come back on a pony. So, uh, how does that work out, exactly?

>> No.4229221

>>4229212
Yeah, this. Beatrice obviously wants him to remember on his own, so I doubt she'd just tell him straight up. I also doubt the promise was the pony thing. That is just, well, retarded. I mean, fuck, I really will hate Beatrice if she is killing everyone for such a small thing. There has to be more to it than that.

>> No.4229224

To summarize for those who still don't get it:

Battler's sin was forgetting something

His sin was not one of the major factors that resulted in the incident on Rokkenjima; it merely induced a small element of instability, which contributed to the factors that resulted in the incident.

The concept of promises, and of keeping them and breaking them, has been touched on multiple times in Umineko.

Battler's sin was forgetting his promise, or not fulfilling it, which led to the creation of Beatrice (and ultimately, the creation of Shannon and Kanon).

>> No.4229227

>>4229207
Fusiontrice.

>> No.4229229

>>4229221
Good thing Beatrice probably isn't the ultimate mastermind, then.

>> No.4229235

>>4229224
No, because of his sin people die. It's a major factor, don't try to down play it. In addition to that, there is a difference between a promise and a childhood joke. A joke, mind you, that his piece self is told about. So he didn't forget it.

I do believe that there was a promise involved. And I do believe he is forgetting it. But there is likely more to it than the Pony comment.

>> No.4229236
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4229236

I don't buy it that Battler created Beatrice. Kinda fucks up the whole "ENDLESS WITCH" thing, eh?

>> No.4229244

>>4229229
Well, Shkanontrice states she is killing people to reach the golden land to be with Battler.
So, uh, what DOES one call someone who ritualistically slaughters innocent people?

>> No.4229251

>>4229244
except beatrice isn't the murderer, confirmed in red EP 5.

>> No.4229258

>>4229236

You'll get it once you read episode 6. They basically state that there are two parts to Beatrice, one is the legend of the witch, the ruler of the shadows of Rokkenjima and the other side is the girl who was always waiting for Battler.

>> No.4229261

>>4229244

Is there like... an official large doc file going through every detail of the Shkannontrice theory? This seems awfully planned out and detalied.

>> No.4229263

The murders and the epitaph go hand in hand.
Someone wants Battler to survive and solve the epitaph.

Now who would benefit from that....

>> No.4229264

>>4229227
Ah, I'm liking that one more and more. It helps explain Kanon nicely. Although, Moon-chan isn't escaping scrutiny no matter what happens at this point.

>> No.4229267

>>4229251
wat

>> No.4229274

>>4229261
Well, not really. The theory has a bunch of holes in it. I'm just posting the rationale those guys tend to used, but personally I think it's too simple.

>> No.4229275

>>4229207

That subject is touched upon in episode 6 quite a lot.

>> No.4229277

>>4229244
Shkanontrice does not state that. You're thinking of the sub-theory of Shkanontrice which has Beatrice being the culprit, which I call the Shkanontrice-culprit theory.

And as an answer to your question: I call them an accomplice, if they aren't the one who decided to have the murders performed. As stated in >>4228252, it's entirely possible that Kinzo planned out the general aspects of the murders ahead of time, and recorded them in his will.

>> No.4229280

>>4229261
No.
Most DIDfags end up arguing about how two personalites died and the third one moved the body and killed, in which point it all turns into a bunch of crap.

>> No.4229281

>>4228972
Since giving birth without being married is seen as being really bad, perhaps Kyrie didn't have the miscarriage, Asumu did. However, Kyrie, truly being in love with Rudolph, gave up her baby to the Asumu/Rudolph couple, because if it was the baby of Kyrie, who Rudolph was not married to, it would diminish his standing within the family, and perhaps even go as far as causing him to miss out on inheritance/becoming the next heir. However, lying about the birth parents is also seen as something extremely terrible, which is why they have never been able to 'come clean, so to speak, about this matter so far.

>> No.4229290

>>4229263
Kyrie?

>> No.4229294

>>4229277
Yeah, I suppose. Although, the issue with it being Kinzo trolling from beyond the grave is that he's been dead for more than a year, he couldn't see into the future and predict that Krauss and Natsuhi would play weekend at Bernie's with him.... FOR A YEAR.

>> No.4229297

>>4229281
Kyrie hated Asumu to the point that she was planning on killing her, and would have done so if Asumu hadn't died first. There is no way Kyrie would willingly give her baby to Asumu.

>> No.4229304

>>4229281
I'd like to point out that Rudolf knew not only that there is sometnhing up with Battler, he knew he is going to die which is very different.
He still knows something.

>> No.4229313

>>4229280
Yeah, it really is silly. It's basically like Battler using small bombs, does it beat the red, technically, yes, but it's retarded. TEH CULPRIT KILLED THEIR PERSONA, GUIES.

>> No.4229323
File: 169 KB, 436x459, 1259785025608.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229323

>>4229294

I wouldn't put it past Kinzo.

>> No.4229324

>>4229313
Let's see you come up with a better way to explain the end of Episode 6, then.

>> No.4229325

>>4229304
I think he meant that in a "ONCE YOU REALIZE THAT I FUCKED NATSUHI AND SHE'S ACTUALLY YOUR MOTHER, YOU ARE GOING TO KILL ME" way.

>> No.4229335

>>4229323
Nah, for once, I would.
Whatever the fuck Jessica is up to, I have no idea, but she's involved in this clusterfuck somehow. Doubly so if we assume Shkanon or Shkanontrice.

>> No.4229348
File: 200 KB, 600x800, 1263255350027.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229348

>>4229335

Personaliy, I think Jessica for culprit would be quite awesome.

>> No.4229360

>>4229348
Mastermind Jessica is the best Jessica.

>> No.4229362

>>4229277
Beatrice has to be the one who started everything.
Read this:
...Beatrice.
Listen carefully.
I will turn over my love for Battler to you.
Become the woman Battler desires.

I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
I will give you the new personality he desires.
And... In place of me, love him.
And if possible, be loved by him.

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

From this day forward, you are no longer the phantom of Rokkenjima who only plays tricks.
From this day forward, you are the ruler of Rokkenjima, and the one who waits for him to return until he fulfills his promise.

From this day forward, you will inherit that in my place.
Thus, from this day forward, you are no longer me.

I will push all of my suffering on to you... Please forgive me for being the only one to become happy.

From this day forward, you have the qualifications to detest everything.
You are the Golden Witch, Beatrice.

And someday.
Destroy everything, revive everything.
...Bless all lovers.

At that time.
...For both you and I to find happiness together...I will be wishing for from the bottom of my heart.

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
We will divide one soul, and share.
That naturally won't fill up one soul, but. (? not 100% sure about this line)
Surely it will allow (us/you/me? no subject defined) to see more dreams than a person.
May we be blessed...
My cute Beatrice...

>>Destroy everything, revive everything.
Sure seems like an insane murderer who really think she will be reborn in the golden land to me.

>> No.4229366

i am thinking that it's Beatrice since in the 4th chapter she said he committed sin 6 years and they never revealed what it was. not sure that makes sense now that i am typing this.....

>> No.4229370

>>4229348
Well, having her be the one to take advantage of a DID crazy person would make all of the scenes where she teases Shannon kinda dark, but yeah. Fuck, they even gave her the OBVIOUS TROLL IS OBVIOUS voice in episode 24 of the anime. You know the type, she sounded like freaking Hazama from Blazblue.

>> No.4229380

>>4229366
Yeah, I think the sin has not been revealed. Battler does not remember it. And yet he was told, by Shannon no less, that he said the whole pony thing. Not saying he never made a promise, but I think it has to be a bit deeper than the pony thing to be a sin.

>> No.4229394

>>4229380

Battler discovered it in ep 5, it was a pretty major point in the game.

We still don't know what it is though.

>> No.4229409

>>4229324
Red prevents you from consciously telling lies, but you can state lies you believe to be right.

>> No.4229413
File: 594 KB, 640x480, 2cntn44.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229413

>>4229370
Well, Moon-chan is Moon-chan. Hope R07 has the balls to make the mastermind an evil motherfucker.
But we'll most likely get a flashback to excuse the whole affair. Fuck, even Bern may get out of this bullshit unscathed.

>> No.4229414

>>4229409
Nope!
If that were the case, Battler could say he is Asumu's son.

>> No.4229418

>>4229409
So Battler KNEW he was not Asumu's?

>> No.4229422

>>4229414
Battler learned that he wasn't six years ago, somehow related to his sin, but has repressed it along with the rest of the sin.

>> No.4229423

>>4229418
>>4229414
Oh, Asumind.

>> No.4229427

>>4229409

Naw. I think it's more like this one theory I heard in another thread:

With red truth you can state that there is no more than 17 persons on the island, even though there may be 4, 11, or 17 persons on the island. With golden truth you can only say "There is 14 persons on the island".

>> No.4229431
File: 57 KB, 400x400, irie is beatrice now what.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229431

>>4229168
No. No no no.

Rosa's ex = Irie.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE THIS WAY

>> No.4229435

>>4229422
Yeah, sure. Even if you want to try to weasel your way out with that, he wouldn't know it, because he repressed it.

Red is the truth, it's not what you believe to be the truth.

>> No.4229438
File: 29 KB, 250x395, tsuki m4.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229438

>>4229413
I'm guessing this.

>> No.4229449

>>4229435
What is the gold then? I know that one is "absolute" and the other one is "honest".
Huh? Which is which?

>> No.4229464

>>4229413
This. If Jessica turns out to be the mastermind, I hope she will be portrayed as an unredeemable evil bitch.

>> No.4229465

>>4229431
If anything he would've just taken Maria with him.

>> No.4229469

>>4229449
Gold is not stated to be absolute. In fact, it's sometimes inferior. Superior, as well, but also inferior. Whatever that means. I think a fair statement is that gold truth isn't as open to equivocations as red, but we don't know the precise mechanics.

Regardless, Battler not being able to say he was Asumu's son shows that the truth is not subjective, or belief based. Even if he repressed it, he would still believe it.

>> No.4229476
File: 77 KB, 595x724, 1259796097435.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229476

>>4229464

Yeah. Partly because I'm a sucker for complete character turnarounds, partly because I hate the Jessica fanbase (not Jessica herself, but by god her fanbase is terrible).

>> No.4229479

>>4229464
remeber Takano, yeeeeeah
but I think Kyrie is the one behind everything, she doesn't lose anything if she doesn't value her life. She's not Beato, so it can be revenge, or maybe love for her child

>> No.4229480

>>4229476
Her "fanbase" are just a bunch of Kanonfags. Really. OH HE'S SO DARK AND MOODY I WISH I WAS JESSICA.

So, they're getting trolled regardless of what goes down.

>> No.4229481

>>4229479
She's out of action for half the episodes, I sincerely doubt it. She's still mah genius waifu, though.

>> No.4229491
File: 165 KB, 700x918, 1263002030763.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229491

>>4229480
Oh, fangirls. They say they like a character because of a character's actions, but one only has to see a reverse trap being revealed to know otherwise.

>> No.4229495
File: 503 KB, 833x1083, 1262228382843.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229495

>>4229480

How the fuck can you be a Kanon fangirl with characters like Sorcerer Battler and Ronove around?

If I was a girl I'd even take Kinzo over him. No joke. Then again, Kinzo is a rare case of "PERSONALITY OVER LOOKS".

Although he did redeem himself a bit at the end of episode 6, taking Battler's place in the closed room after dramatically zipping through the mansion.

>> No.4229496

>>4229481
Doesn't it make her more likely, since the killer would have to be someone whose internal thoughts we haven't been privy to?

Besides, I don't think anyone else on the island is smart enough to be the mastermind. Well, except for Kinzo. I still wouldn't put it past him...

>> No.4229498

>>4229481
that's why I said she doesn't lose anything if she dies, she just want everyone dead, doesn't mind if she herself dies
really, no one is intelligent enough to come up with those closed rooms apart from kyrie
she's too much like Takano, but that spot is covered by obvious culprit Eva, so it doesn't matter

>> No.4229501

>>4229496
Kinzo has a con, designing 3 or 4 different kinds of closed room for every twilight

>> No.4229502

>>4229496
Actually, standard mystery fare usually has the culprit NOT be the one who has their internal thoughts present. It is the line between suspicious and SUSPICIOUS, a character who is SUSPICIOUS usually, well, isn't.
>>4229498
Well, I doubt it. Kyrie would have a more practical motive, she's a practical person. She wouldn't just want to kill everyone for the lulz.

>> No.4229504

>>4229501
Ep1 twight 2 is easy, it never happend.

>> No.4229506

>>4229501
Kinzo doesn't have to design the closed rooms. He could simply have ordered his servants to set up the bomb and follow the twilights at some point.

>> No.4229509

>>4229504
> it never happened.
It's kind of hard to fake someone having a Stake to the forehead.

>> No.4229512

>>4229506

>set up the bomb

Stop trying to persuade me to make a Kinzo version of "all your base is belong to us".

>> No.4229513

>>4229512
Do it.

>> No.4229514

>>4229512
MOVE WITCH
FOR GREAT BEATRICE

>> No.4229518

>>4229304

I love how any time he mentions it on the game board it just blows straight over everyons head. I mean if he was joking, sure, but he is wearing a very serious face in a very tense after moment at the most serious moment of the ushiromya family conference. Why the fuck doesn't battler/kyrie say, look, just tell us. Jeez.

>> No.4229519

>>4229512
HAHAHAHAH, ALL YOUR ROKKENJIMA IS BELONG TO US, YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE, MAKE YOUR TIMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH DESIRE!

>> No.4229525

>>4229506
but still someone had to design the closed room
my bet goes to Kyrie, she's so evident she's perfect

>> No.4229529
File: 17 KB, 632x469, Battlersobbedinthehallway.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229529

>>4229509

>> No.4229531

>>4229525
She can't see into the future, man. The closed rooms happen after her deaths. Listen, I wanted her to be the culprit too, but at this point it's just unlikely.

>> No.4229534

>>4229304
again, that's a figure of speech, because he knows that Kyrie would probably kill him if she could
it's not literal, for the love of god, it's just implying things are going to get really nasty
also it involves Kyrie's miscarriage, a very delicate subject for her

>> No.4229537

>>4229531
What if she had a sudden boat of women intuition.

>> No.4229539

>>4229537
*sudden bout.

>> No.4229551

>>4229534
HEY KYRIE
REMEMBER HOW YOU WERE UPSET AT LOSING YOUR CHILD?
WELL, ASUMU KINDA SORTA WAS THE ONE TO MISCARRY, BUT I LIKED HER MORE SO I GAVE HER YOUR CHILD.
YEAH, BATTLER, ASUMU IS NOT YOUR MOM, KYRIE IS.


What a fucking troll.

>> No.4229558

>>4229551

Awesome face Rudolf being watched by the RAGEEE faced Battler and Kyrie being imagined.

>> No.4229563

>>4229551
That's why he said he was going to die.

>> No.4229576

>>4229558
Likewise, only he's singing the Jack Bauer song while watching their reactions.

>> No.4229590

>>4229563
Poor Battler and Kyrie. They both kinda have a tension between them, Battler felt that Kyrie replaced his mother, and Kyrie felt that Battler replaced her son, and yet, Kyrie was Battler's mom all along, just as he was her son.

>> No.4229603

>>4229590

Still, they seem to truely care about each other

>>4228458 case in point

>> No.4229605

>>4229551
He should soften things up by starting or finishing off with a Bel-Air.
The great thing about Kyrie theory is that there's so much opportunity for lulz and "what have I done!?"

>> No.4229609
File: 44 KB, 850x632, yup.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229609

>>4228458
It contrasted sharply with another phone call in the episode, yup.

>> No.4229623

>>4229609
Oh god, yeah, that fucking phone call. Jessica might as well have an awesome-face on for that.
SUP BRA? NAH, I'M DEAD, DON'T WORRY BOUT ME. OR GEORGE, HE DIED INSTANTLY LOL. SO YEAH, MAGIC EXISTS, YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE, HAVE A NICE LIFE.

>> No.4229624
File: 57 KB, 624x469, Battlerfear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229624

>>4229605
Fuck Battler sin, it's Rudolf we need to be looking at & his big long line of "sins".
Hell Kyrie even expects him to arrive on a white horse.

>> No.4229640

>>4229624
Rudolf is just a player. Players aren't particularly nice, but that's part of the game.

>> No.4229647

>>4229640
Nothing wrong with a player, when you start swapping babies with dead babies, that's not right.

>> No.4229650
File: 109 KB, 500x656, 48240d1a30bb934b1c62f424736e1f72f9f92302.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229650

>>4229623
>>4229609

I don't give a rat's ass about Battler and Jessica's releationship.

BUT BATTLER AND KYRIE SHOW THEIR TRUE FEELINGS AND RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER AS A MOTHER AND SON DURING PRESSURE, SHUT UP I'M NOT LISTENING

>> No.4229652

>>4229624
Rudolf is still the only one of Kinzo's direct children who we haven't gotten into the head of. Considering how messed up the rest of the kids are, there's no way he can be as sane as he appears.

>> No.4229670

If Kinzo had sex with either of his daughters, and that resulted in a birth of a boy, would that child be considered both Kinzo's son and grandson?

>> No.4229680

>>4229670
no, it's incestuous son

>> No.4229682

>>4229650
Uh, bro, I agree. The point was that Kyrie and Battler had a DAW conversation, while Jessica and Battler's conversation was very sinister in tone.

>> No.4229683

>>4229670

It would be considered Goat-kun.

>> No.4229703
File: 681 KB, 1134x888, 1260050715641.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229703

>>4229682

Oh.

Then all is good.

>> No.4229712

>>4229703
See, this picture is why I want Battler and most of his family to survive.

>> No.4229716

>>4229703
We need to see Asumu, we don't need to see Rosa ex or Kinzo dead wife but we have to see Asumu.
Just for her side of the story because kyrie is making her out to be the biggest bitch around.

>> No.4229727
File: 259 KB, 768x432, like asumu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229727

>>4229716
Asumu was a whore. Why take the word of a dead whore over Kyrie?

>> No.4229728

>>4229716

Agreed. She's pretty damn mysterious.

I want more Umineko flashbacks in general. Not the "Ange has a depressive life, boo hoo" flashbacks, interesting stuff like Kinzo's first meeting with Beatrice or more Virgilia/Beato backstory.

>> No.4229733

>>4229728
Watch as flashback Kinzo is just a black haired Battler. Fucking watch that shit.

>> No.4229734

>>4229727
For one, how did she die?, though knowing Rudolf he probaly crashed his car into her or something.

>> No.4229747

>>4229734

>so, how long you wanna keep this marriage thing going?

>living a normal life up until the age of 70-80 or so as a family? YEAH.... I was thinking more along the lines of 8 months or so, y'know, just to see how this thing works

>BANG

>Kyrie, I found out Asumu sucks, let's get married!

>> No.4229750

>>4229734
died in a car accident with Battler, that's why he's so afraid

>> No.4229766

>>4229747
>>4229750
God i wish Ryu would elaborate more on this, though i think we should assume it wasn't natural.

>> No.4229771

>>4229551
Actually this makes me think, what if Asumu doesn't actually exist at all?

If Battler is indeed the baby that Kinzo handed over to Natsuhi 19 years ago then perhaps Rudolf and Kyrie were forced to pretend that there was a miscarriage, under the order of the house head. Or perhaps it was Rudolf doing all this alone and perhaps that's why he was all like "I'm going to die tonight" when Kyrie probably found out.

Stupid theory I know, but it fits with the general theme.

>> No.4229774

he's the resurected baby of kinzo and beatrice's human vessel

>> No.4229778

>>4229771
So.... what, Asumu was in Battler's head?

>> No.4229785

>>4229771
Or Asumu is Kasumi, because names.

>> No.4229788

>>4229772
Oh you.

>> No.4229789

>>4229778

Asumu was Beatrice taking a human form to communicate with her husbando.

It all makes sense. Goddamn Beato you're obsessed.

>> No.4229791

>>4229778
Like every other person in Umineko, yes.

>> No.4229805

>>4229778
Possibly, we haven't really heard anything about Asumu other than from Kyrie.

She could have been someone Rudolf made up, and pretty much used her to manipulate Kyrie.

>> No.4229814
File: 99 KB, 530x700, 123.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4229814

>>4229789
Asumu is moe enough to be Beato.

>> No.4229820

>>4229805
But Battler, Asumu & Rudolf lived together for many years, so unless you're saying that Rudolf pulling a Shanon.

>> No.4229833

>>4229820
He's pretty enough to do that.

Seriously though, perhaps it was a servant he hired. Or it was just in Battler's head, like pretty much everything else.

>> No.4229841

>>4229833
Maybe Ange is just in his head as well.

>> No.4229842

Does it state about how old Battler was when Asumu died?

>> No.4229856

>>4229842
Well Rudolf moved in with Kyrie soon after so about 6 years ago, so about 12-13. So if Battler did have any promises you can kinda understand why he couldn't keep them.

>> No.4229879

>>4229833
No, Asumu existed, stop being an idiot.
Really, let's not get bogged down on something that has absolutely no foreshadowing whatsoever.

>> No.4230184

>>4229716
This. Ryukishi loves to play with perspective. Higurashi was chock full of that shit, people were suspicious because the character we were reading the thoughts of disliked or thought they were suspicious, and the very opposite was the truth.

>> No.4230215

Featherine =/= hanyuu
Bern =/= Rika

>> No.4230231

>>4230215
Nice try.

>> No.4230258

>>4230184
Yes, much like Eva, in all likelihood is innocent.
But DERP HERP Ange has made everyone assume Eva is the culprit of episode 3.

>> No.4230290

>>4230215
The second is true, at least.

Hanyuu seems to truly be a bitch, though.

>> No.4230297

>>4230290
> The second is true, at least.
Well, in a sense, yes. All the Rikas we saw in Higurashi were portions of Bernkastel, though.

>> No.4230315

>>4230290
Umineko seems to emphasize bad traits of Higurashi characters (if that's true), but they had those traits in the begining.

>>4229083
Describes Hanyuu in the VN.

>> No.4230317

>>4230297
TLDR: Traveler Rika, the Rika who is aware of the timeloop is Bern.
The other Rikas who she possessed are not.

>> No.4230339

>>4230317
> The other Rikas who she possessed
Was there ever any situation where one of those Rikas regained their previous personality and memories, or was it a permanent overwrite? If the latter, then the Rikas that were "possessed" effectively did become portions of Bernkastel.

>> No.4230348
File: 138 KB, 871x476, 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4230348

>>4230339
Well, considering they all died, nope. An optimistic person could believe that the final Rika had Bern leave her, but the Rika we all know and love from Higurashi is indeed Bern.

>> No.4230352

>>4230317
>>4230348
ITT people who got trolled by ryukishi

>> No.4230358

>>4230348
Featherine, is the same?
Still apart from the name what about Miyo or 34?

>> No.4230370

>>4230352
You mean ITT people in denial.

>> No.4230381

>>4230358
Nah, Lambda's Diary pretty much confirmed that Lambda is indeed not Takano, and that she merely granted her the gift of Certainty instead. (On a side note, Episode 6 states that Lambda became a witch in a similar fashion to how Bern did.)

Featherine's interaction with Bernkastel, though, all but explicitly states that Bern was the Frederica Bernkastel of Higurashi and Featherine was Hanyuu.

>> No.4230394

>>4230381
FUCKING AUAU.
But yeah, I'm calling fake boss on Bern and Auau. The culprit is likely to appear on the Meta and do away with them, as the TWEEST ending of episode 7.

>> No.4230460 [SPOILER] 
File: 130 KB, 800x800, Truth behind oyashirosama.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4230460

>>4230348
>>4230339

So could Rika just be Featherinne's piece? Or is she merely an entity in many kakera that eventually took the form Bernkastel because of Hanyuu? I guess my real question is who came first, the Rika or the Bernkastel?

Also, could Hanyuu also be Featherinne's piece or possibly be her form she took on the gameboard?

>> No.4230558

>>4230460
It's been a while since I've went through the Higurashi VNs, so someone correct me if something is wrong.

There is no evidence of Higurashi being like Umineko, ie being a gameboard. To begin with, it's not a closed area situation, they could freely go out of Hinamizawa.

Rika existed, and after many centuries, Hanyuu finally had someone to interact with. Takano came into play, and resulted in Rika dying. Hanyuu, refusing to be alone again, did the godhax bullshit, and brought Rika's memories to another kakera's Rika.

Dying constantly no matter how hard she tried made her quite obviously cynical and GRIMDARK, and there's Bernkastel.

Alternatively, another theory I've heard is that Rika with the old Rika's memories is still =/= Bern, as Bern exists in the sea of kakera, and can only watch the situations go on.

I don't remember there being a single shred of evidence for that, but I'd delude myself into accepting it, since it's better than assuming the Rika who broke through her fate at the end of it all still became Bernkastel.

>> No.4230653

>>4230558
See >>4229083 and >>4229130. Hanyuu's a fucking bitch.

>> No.4230656 [SPOILER] 
File: 473 KB, 676x800, 1263663852709.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4230656

>>4230460

>> No.4230671

>>4230558
It's both, actually. Bern exists in the sea of kakera, but portions of her memories would be copied into the minds of the Rikas of those various kakera, and she'd gain the new memories they made once they died. What that means, of course, is that Bernkastel herself would never get memories of a happy ending, because in a happy ending, Rika doesn't die.

>> No.4230675

>>4230653
Not at all. That's just people reading too far into it. Hanyuu is a nice person.

>> No.4230687
File: 81 KB, 1440x900, 1245804498141.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4230687

>>4230675

>> No.4230721

>>4230675
>Hanyuu
>Nice Person
>laughingelfman picture

>> No.4230724

>>4230721
>saves an innocent girl's life

>> No.4230734

>>4230724
>Has her repeat her own death for 100 years

>> No.4230751

>>4230734
Come on. You're not even trying, here.

>> No.4230763

>>4230751
Hanyuu herself admits that letting Rika stay dead from the very beginning would have been the right thing to do.

>> No.4230806

>>4230763
Ryukishi clearly intended Hanyuu to be viewed in a good light

>> No.4230852

>>4230806
Of course. That doesn't mean she doesn't have a dark side to her that wasn't focused on in Higurashi.

>>
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