/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

I'd been putting it off for quite a while (mostly due to my negative opinion of Shirou from hearsay and some of the anime), but I just finished Fate route of Fate/Stay Night. Yes, yes, heinously belated. But you know what? I found the premise really interesting, really liked most of the characters, and the voices from Realta Nua just added to it. From BASAKAA to Rin's impression of Merlin and King Arthur, there were some pretty enjoyable scenes. I do, however, strongly doubt I will read UBW any time soon. It's slipped to the very bottom of my to read list.
Why?
It's simple - the protagonist. The only character from F/SN I unilaterally loathe. Him being a complete dumbass didn't help much. When your choices are tantamount to flossing your teeth with piano wire or shaving with a chainsaw, it becomes frustrating. This, however, is the least of his flaws as it is somewhat omnipresent. Perhaps not to this extent, but it makes it forgivable, I suppose, if only because it is not terribly rare in VN protagonists. (t

[Anonymous No.]

But mind of steel is best end. And everyone already knows that Shirou is by far the weakest link in fsn.

[Anonymous No.]

(cont.)
Perhaps it is my affinity for stronger female characters than moe waifs, but his nonchalant chauvinism appalls me. When he gets to the point of applauding attempted rape because it brings out 'feminine' qualities in a girl? Especially so casually? It sickens me. Tied with that (perhaps above) is how...conceited, I suppose, he is. His constant absurd commentary on Saber's "true nature" made me rage like no other. I jokingly play along with rage threads, but it's more amused exasperation. This? This was rage-inducing. To claim oneself more aware of another's 'nature' or purpose in life than that individual is the height of...I don't even know what to call it off the top of my head short of abject lack of character.
In short, while I can normally be hopelessly enamored of something simply due to an excellent setting or premise despite most potential failures of realization, while I truly like the premise of Fate/Stay Night as well as most of the characters, this is tempered by the loathsome protagonist. I would say I thoroughly enjoyed it, but... I cannot, in all honesty. Solely due to Shirou. A well played 10/10 right there. An achievement all trolls aspire to but virtually none ever attain.

[Anonymous No.]

>It's simple - the protagonist. The only character from F/SN I unilaterally loathe.

You'll quite likely like him as you keep playing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149877

Mitsuzuri should be loved tenderly, not raped.

[Anonymous No.]

General opinion on the matter is that you don't really empathize with Shirou until UBW.

[Anonymous No.]

1) He gets a lot better.
2) You haven't played Cross Channel, Wanko to Kurasou, or Brass Restoration, have you? believe me, it could be worse.

[Anonymous No.]

You know OP, UBW Shirou is pretty much Fate route Shirou without the suck.

If Fate route Shirou could be described as "I am too stupid to realize that protecting everyone is a stupid ideal", then UBW Shirou is "You're right, saving everybody is foolish. But I'll do it anyway, because it's what I believe is right!"

And then he fucking does it, because in UBW Shirou becomes pretty badass.

Oh, and then there's Heaven's Feel. Which can be described as "Fuck my beliefs, my bitch is in danger."

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149922
Haven't gone through the first or the last, but Wanko to Kurasou was more PORN (now with plot!) than PLOT (oh, we might have thrown a few sex scenes in there).

[Anonymous No.]

>"Fuck my beliefs, my bitch is in danger."
Sounds fine to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149926
>If Fate route Shirou could be described as "I am too stupid to realize that protecting everyone is a stupid ideal", then UBW Shirou is "You're right, saving everybody is foolish. But I'll do it anyway, because it's what I believe is right!"

I've always thought they were the same, and that both realised they couldn't save everyone at the end. The only different being Shirou in UBW could somewhat fend for himself.

[Anonymous No.]

I've been told time and again about how he stops being as much of a dumbass regarding his ideal, but I don't see what bearing that would have on my other two points - namely, nonchalant chauvinism and that conceited (for lack of a better term) nature.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149959
Fate route Shirou never really put too much thought into his own beliefs, and considered them right until the very end.

UBW Shirou, on the other hand, realizes that it's worthless to try and save everybody, but resolves himself to put everything he has into his belief, even if it's impossible to live up to.

I'll take being stubborn over not even seeing your own faults any time.

[Anonymous No.]

Fascinating, now go back to /a/.

>>4149926
>Oh, and then there's Heaven's Feel. Which can be described as "Fuck my beliefs, my bitch is in danger."
That wasn't what HF was about at all.

[Anonymous No.]

Read the Fate/zero light novel, and be in awe of Kiritsugu's manliness, and baaaaaaaaaaaaw at Kariya Matou's story.

[Anonymous No.]

UBW shirou effectively either, still fulfills the fate of himself becoming Archer, OR becomes a brand new hero superior to Archer, making it so there are possibly two shirous tied to the grail, OR he even stops himself from ever doing the contract, although with the major power boost and improved will and ideals he can possibly reach hero status by his own will.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149980
>Fate route Shirou never really put too much thought into his own beliefs, and considered them right until the very end.
>considered them right until the very end

Shirou in UBW also considered them right, the only thing is that he knew he'd be unable to save everyone. However, he never said he'd stop trying. Shirou reached the same answer in Fate while he was in the Church's basement. He said something like how a hero is only a cleaner, and not someone who can stop bad things from happening. So, I see it as basically the same thing, just that Shirou did it in a much cooler fashion in UBW since he fought Archer to prove himself.

[Anonymous No.]

What Shirou ends up being if you follow the Mind of Steel route.

[Anonymous No.]

The thing about Ayako was just a joke you big baby.

The points regarding Seiba and her true nature were just his impressions about her. In fact, if you play through UBW you'll realize that they're similar people and suddenly all of that talk about her true nature should make sense.

Even his retarded white-knighting and throwing himself into the fray in place of Seiba should make sense.

But if you wanna bitch about him because the equivalent of a shounen hero made some chauvinistic offhand jokes, hey, that's cool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150016
> He said something like how a hero is only a cleaner, and not someone who can stop bad things from happening.
That sounds suspiciously like a Counter Guardian...

[Anonymous No.]

I wish there was a route where he actually got Kiritsugu's gun and went hog crazy with it. With Ilya as the waifu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150017

Incorrect sir, do try again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150037
I lol'd when Kiritsugu mentioned he had a machine gun.

What'd he use the black key for anyway?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150037
I dunno man, last I checked, it's was more difficult to shoot swords from a handgun than a longbow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150047
Explain further.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149877

>When he gets to the point of applauding attempted rape because it brings out 'feminine' qualities in a girl?

When in Fate route did this happen?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149869
>just finished Fate route

lawl newfag

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150036

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150063

Heroic Spirit EMIYA died content with how his life ended. He didn't become bitter towards his ideal until after serving as a Counter Guardian.

Mind of Steel Shirou begins his self-loathing the moment he chooses to kill Sakura.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150077
Did Kiritsugu say it originally, or did Archer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150086
Yeah. Mind of Steel Shirou didn't become Archer; he became Kiritsugu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150087
I'm sure those were Archer's words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150086
>Mind of Steel Shirou begins his self-loathing
I dunno bro, it seems kind of hard for an emotionless sword to feel self-loathing.

[Anonymous No.]

In before 200 replies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150103

Either way, Mind of Steel Shirou is incapable of feeling contentment with his life. Thus, Mind of Steel Shirou can never become Heroic Spirit EMIYA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150116
He will become a badass normal human.
That's even better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150067
see
>>4149887

>>4150035
Joke. Right. Because he was so prone to rape jokes. And it doesn't fit at all with his chauvinism, sure.
And I haven't read UBW, so I cannot comment on it, but when you start telling someone effectively, "You're a fragile girl at heart, not a knight. gb2 kitchen"...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150121

That has nothing to do with the notion that >>4150017 put forth.

[Anonymous No.]

I sympathized more with Archer than Shirou in UBW. Too bad he reverts to moralfaggotry at the end.

[Anonymous No.]

Honestly, OP? I felt EXACTLY the same way the first time I played through. Shirou pissed me off so thoroughly that I literally took sadistic pleasure in purposely steering him to his gruesome doom in the form of Bad Ends. Some of the more Shirou-centric scenes in Fate made me want to beat my head against my bedroom wall until my brain liquefied and spilled out my ears.

He really does get better in the other routes, though. For some strange reason, Shirou's chauvinism mostly applies to Saber and outside of Fate he only makes maybe one or two other exasperated "you should act more feminine!" comments. I went straight from hating his self-righteous guts in Fate to thinking he was semi-badass in UVW.

Give it a shot; you won't be disappointed.

[Anonymous No.]

Fate route Shirou realized his ideal was impossible too, the game just didn't put that much emphasis on it because of UBW. He talks about it being impossible before the routes even branch off. He's just so messed up in the head that he literally HAS to try to save people. Some may think that's admirable, others may think it's just stupidity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150009
>baaaaaaaaaaaaw at Kariya Matou's story.
Why the fuck did Aoi marry Tokiomi anyway? Seriously, what the hell?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150127
It's really more like, "You're a human being not a machine.".

Of course Shirou is really bad at expressing himself clearly in these circumstances so you get things like "girls shouldn't swing around swords".

Kiritsugu is the one that taught him to be protective of women, because well, his women didn't end too well. And Issei has issues with women too. Shirou's surrounded by these kinds of people, it can't be helped.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150230
She's a bitch-whore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150205
>Some may think that's admirable, others may think it's just stupidity.

I'd say neither, Shirou is plainly broken. More than once he made it clear he was following these ideals out of atonement. So, in the end, it wasn't as if the original purpose was to actually become a hero just because. Shirou just wanted salvation. He doesn't actually want to fully realise that ideal until the end of Fate and UBW.

That's how I saw things, at the very least.

[^_^ No.]

>>4150009
Yeah, bawww at Kariya Matou's story.
"You have no chance of winning at all."
"I know."
"This won't save Sakura. The training has already started."
"If I win you'll release her, right?"
"Yeah, sure."

I laughed hard at Kariya's stupidity. I only felt sorry for Sakura, because she got to see her uncle fall into madness and destroy himself, and try to give her false hope which would only make it harder for her to cope after the war.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150270
It wasn't stupidity, that was fucking amazing you heartless bastard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150270
Wow, you're probably the first person I've seen to talk about him like that.

You cunt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150292
He's right though. Fate/zero is full of pitiful characters and Kariya is one of the most pitiful.

Then you get people who fight over whether Aoi or Kariya were in the "right". When really they were both morons.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150302
>>4150270
I hate to sound like /b/, but sure is samefag here.

[Anonymous No.]

>More than once he made it clear he was following these ideals out of atonement.

Reread the Archer vs Shirou fight. Shirou isn't atoning for anything, he just truly enjoys saving people to the extent that he's willing to die trying.

[Anonymous No.]

Now all we need is WhiteRen to join in and everything will be perfect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150067

See image:
>>4149887

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150312

Go read Fate after he saw those mana batteries at Kotomine's basements.

Also he said that as the sole survivor who can't save everybody else around him(in the great fire) he wanted to become a hero as part of his atonement to them

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150270
>>4150302
The guy gave himself rape-worms and ended up killing himself for the slight chance of saving Sakura, and he might've actually succeeded if not for Saber's relation to Berserker.
You all go on and on about manliness, but don't see it here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150330
There's more to it than that. He's just using that as motivation to keep going. Of course UBW Shirou and Fate Shirou are different but the way it's phrased in UBW is that he's been hiding it from himself the entire time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150337
Manliness and being a tool aren't exclusive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150344
Tohsaka also says thinks that he's trying to atone for it after Shirou jumps out against Gil in UBW after the Beserker fight. Shirou was probably just extremely affected by seeing all the mana batteries and was mostly referring to how he'd have to kill Kotomine as atonement. It's not his motivation to becoming a super hero.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150357
I don't see how he's a tool. Hell, does that insult even have a definition anymore?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150365

Yeah, you can't really say he's a tool when he's doing it out of his own free will.

[Anonymous No.]

I got a bit tired of Shirou's constant chauvinism in Fate, so the surprising lack of it towards Rin in UBW had me feeling better by the end of it.
Now I'm on HF, but as with all VNs I find finishing the last remaining route a chore.

[Nanaya !yrBrqfF1Ew No.]

>>4150385
In Fate he believed that he could fight to protect everyone, he didn't want to see Saber hurt like she was when she fought against Berserker again. It wasn't something so complicated as chauvinism, it's something so simple as wanting to be a super hero who saves everyone.

If you look at both routes first fight against Berserker you'll see something. In Fate Saber got hurt badly and would of died if Shirou didn't protect her, in UBW Saber fought against a monster like Berserker without receiving a blow.

It's simple really. Saber lost against Lancer and Berserker in Fate, and Saber lost against Lancer but fought equally with Berserker in UBW. Going just by that you see a frail loyal knight willing to die for you in Fate but you don't want her to die or get injured cause you are weak, and you see a powerful knight who you can trust to fight for you and win on her own in UBW.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4150127
And the ironic thing is in UBW he's all for Rin fighting at his side.

It's like how >>4150504 said. In Fate he kept seeing Saber getting her ass handed to her, while in UBW he saw her on equal footing with a behemoth like Berserker. Plus Rin kicked his ass in the school.

>>4150156
Archer's perhaps the most tragic character in Fate, and he doesn't get a good end at all. Ilya can be saved, so can Sakura, Saber and Rider. Archer gets the shaft.

However, I liked the fact that Archer had his Big Damn Hero moment saving the day in UBW despite becoming a blade pincushion. Archer may have the lowest stats, he's the toughest Servant. He fought Berserker one on one probably without UBW and killed him 6 times, with hardly any mana left and becoming a pincushion he saved the fucking day, and in HF he protects Rin from being skewered by the Shadow, gets stabbed in the heart, carries her back to the church and probably cuts off his own fucking arm and holds on until it's grafted onto Shirou before finally fading away.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149869
If this is your reason for not wanting to play UBW or Heaven's Feel then this is a very bad reason because both paths take Shirou and make him awesome (HF in particular makes him into the high lord of badass and pretty much all of his stupidity from Fate goes away).

[Anonymous No.]

A thread about Fate pretty much right after the thread about all the three routes.
Well, I guess that's Ok.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4149869
I know that growth is in a way a theme in f/sn with Fate, UBW and HF being somewhat Childish, Older and Mature in that order, and I think that I agree with that myself.
In Fate he was pressured with his past which only strengthened the strength of his naive ideals.
In UBW he was pressured with his own future and what he aspired to become and how he wanted to grow forcing him to throughoutly think some things through fully.
In HF he was pressured with choices he never wanted to have to make, and I guess that I can agree on this being the most mature. Taking on the toughest decisions one have to make and walk them through is mature in itself and allows growth and I think that this made him grow more in HF than in the other routes.

Taking on decisions one doesn't want to have to make might be mature when necessary, but when not it might in fact be the best not having to decide as there most likely is a reason for why one never wanted to be put in that position in the first place, having to chose between the lives of loved ones and the lives of many is not a choice one should have to make.

Not reading the other routes, soley cause of the reason that you found Shirou to be too Childish doesn't seem like the best move.
Now sure, not all stories work for everyone but that reason alone felt kind of weak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4151275
>Ilya can be saved
No she can't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4151275
>perhaps the most tragic character in Fate
Hello.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152806
But Archer is screwed in an eternal loop of despair as a Counter Guardian being forced to see the ugliness of mankind for all eternity and cleansing them, going against his ideal and all of his life.
And Caster, she had a pretty messed up life right? But that doesn't compare to endless torture does it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152845
He's mindless, he doesn't suffer.

Plus he chose that path, no regrets etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152860
But in the end he couldn't stand it.
Sure he chose that path and he didn't have any regrets, but that was only up until the moment of his death.
After that the embedded knowledge through summonings made him despair, he realized that he could do nothing, and that he was stuck facing pretty much the opposite of the end result he always fought for.
He is by no means mindless and he suffers the most out of all the TM characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4151275
>Ilya can be saved

Either you didn't entirely finish F/SN or you're having a case of delusion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152901
>he suffers the most out of all the TM characters.
Haha oh wow.

Doesn't he only realize "damn, I killed a bunch of people" when summoned as a Servant? So he suffers for, what, a week?

[Anonymous No.]

I like how /jp/ like to take things out of context from F/SN,especially when it come to EMIYA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152941
Elaborate, good sir.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152928
Doesn't suffer as much as virgin saber getting raped in a ton of decisions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152953
Go back to bed Nasu, unlike what you may think rape isn't the worst thing that could happen to someone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152953
it carries out and is w

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152967
?

[Anonymous No.]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW I HATE MYSELF BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152928
>Doesn't he only realize "damn, I killed a bunch of people" when summoned as a Servant? So he suffers for, what, a week?
What, no.
You know, Heroic Spirits exists outside of time, meaning that time is irrelevant for them.
They are summoned from any time from any place and even at multiple times/places at once.
The moment someone becomes a Heroic Spirit they have already 'lived' an eternity.
As a Counter Guardian Archer was forced to cleance humanity for all eternity and that was also something that he had actually done, actually was doing and actually was still going to continue doing.
A little qoute from Saber from the UBW route
"Archer, you continued such a life forever?"
And through the embedded knowledge of summons all his feelings and thoughts from the cleancing that he has spent an eternity doing are still flowing into his mind.
So by no means something as simple as a week.
It was an eternity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152996
Well, shucks man.
Play some vidya or something and cheer up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152997
I'm not denying he killed people. I'm denying that he was aware he was doing it before being summoned as a Servant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4151275
Did anyone else see Last Episode as a good end for Archer as well as Shirou and Saber? It seemed to me as though Shirou's reflections were from his point of view as a Counter Guardian. Seeing as how Shirou dies of old age early in Last Ep and the Nasuverse lacks a collective afterlife, the Throne of Heroes is the only place Shirou's mind could have persisted after death.

[Anonymous No.]

I think you are all ignoring the best heroine of F/SN

[Anonymous No.]

>>4152943

Basically the entire thread devoted to justifying a character. In short,EMIYA cult.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153014
But he was.
It was clearly stated that the only thing that kept him sane during the eternity was his naive hope of a miracle that would end it.
If that was the only thing keeping him sane then he must have known about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153029
Ah, gotcha.

Yeah, fanboys aren't really worth reasoning with.

[Anonymous No.]

Protip: OP IS A DURORU

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153015
>Did anyone else see Last Episode as a good....
I don't know really, perhaps.
But I can't see Last Episode as anything other than a forced scenario cause the Japanese fans were pestering him about there not being a happy end for Saber and Shirou in Fate.

[Anonymous No.]

Shirou > Archer.

Do not discuss.

[Anonymous No.]

>Counter Guardian
Where does this term come from? Can't remember it from UBW

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153042
Eh, it washes out the bad taste left by HF true, at least.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153034
Know what? Of course he know he was killing people, that was his job after all. But at the same time by killing people he would save much more. And then repeat from start.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153045
Nothing to discuss, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153042
Oh boy it's THIS argument again.
I wish I could discuss the implications of a happy ending without the "OMG FUCKING FANSERVICE" response for once.

[Anonymous No.]

I also found Archer to be the most tragic character. When he was laughing as a mad man while conversing with Saber I thought it became quite clear. Their whole conversation was basically about what led Archer to do the actions he did in UBW.
So did people just miss that everyone was saying that he was screwed by forever experience the worst he could have thought of for all eternity? Or did people not just care because it was Archer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153019

slut

[Anonymous No.]

Dead people don't have the ability to think and angst so he's only deluding himself

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153066
That wasn't an argument, I only said that I might as well agree with you, but I can't really help but feeling that it's forced.
I never said that it wasn't legit or anything I just feel like it was forced, how could that be an argument?

[Anonymous No.]

Sagebomb detected

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153078
But when he is summoned he can, and he is always doing the Counter Guardian work and his experiences are stored.
So in what way wouldn't it be real?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4151275
Archer did kind of get a semi-Good End in UBW. He's still stuck doing his shit for eternity, but at least he regained his belief and accepts the fate.

[Anonymous No.]

So is it true that the Shirou Saber meets in Last Episode is none other than Archer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153097
>at least he regained his belief and accepts the fate.
And then forgets about it

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153101
I like to think so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153101
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153101
Haha, no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153095
He's a read-only file not a person
He only becomes a person that can attach connect emotions to numbers after he gets a human body

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153097
>but at least he regained his belief and accepts the fate.
It was also very strongly hinted in the epilogue Answer that he would forget about it again, so he only regained it for a very short moment.
Also, knowing Nasu with his infinite worlds and such and timelines etc etc, it probably wasn't the "first" time the UBW end occurred even though it was nearly impossible for it to happen.
Most likely he just didn't gain anything from it in the long run.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153129
>Most likely he just didn't gain anything from it in the long run.
But Shirou did, and that's what counts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153068
>I also found Archer to be the most tragic character

I hate this kind of comment so fucking much. It's basically the same statement as when FF7 preteen girls used to describe Sephiroth.Emofags really need to stop with this kind of things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153114
>>4153118
>>4153124
So the UBW CG shown is just future Shirou's? It does seem to imply that he'll be following Archer's path if his Reality Marble eventually came to look like Archer's.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153048
bump

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153128
Well yeah of course, but the thing is that he has such a body, at all times at infinite different places at once from different summons.
There is never a moment when he isn't summoned as he exist outside of time. Sure there exists something like a core or something within the throne but there still are endless numbers of him that have been summoned to various places and times.
All their experiences contribute to the embedded knowledge of accumulated summons.
And by already having lived an eternity he have already done everything, but by also still living an eternity he is still doing it.
It doesn't matter if the core in the throne can't think if he still experiences it all each time he receives a body.

[Anonymous No.]

>109 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>Nothing in this thread is not already discussed like 100 times before
>Archer shipperfag

Boy,do I love /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

Only one doing experiencing is his counterparts and nothing gets transferred to him other than history since he is already at the End of Time
Core body is only being an emo fag that's rolling in his grave

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153048
>Counter Guardian
>Where does this term come from? Can't remember it from UBW
You can't?
Because it came from UBW.
Though the 'Counter' part of the Counter Guardians were often omitted leaving it as just Guardian.
But they are the working force of the Counter Force, forever cleaning up after humans.
They basically do the things Archer talked about on the stairs together with Saber and Shirou before they fought.

[Anonymous No.]

>Archer shipperfag
I don't think she's here for once, actually.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153176
+ he doesn't humanly know he's rolling in his grave after he becomes a person again

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153144
They aren't the same. Archie's gears touch the ground, LE Shirou's are in the sky.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153176
But they are all him.
And the throne is outside of time and not at the end, there is a difference if you are picky.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153203
for all intents and all purposes it's the same thing

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153220
But it also means that the once with the bodies suffer from the collected suffering from the counter guardian work, does it not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153269
>the ones with bodies

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153269
Yeah but his incarnations are summoned as mindless power so the emo gets filtered

[Anonymous No.]

Needless discussions that have been discussed to death I don't know how many times now.

But what is there to miss? Archer obviously suffered, otherwise he would have just been the strong hero with no regrets. It was all covered pretty well in UBW wasn't it?

[Anonymous No.]

IMO, Archer already sounded pretty tired while he was still alive if you read between the lines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153295
Problem is that most people are retards who somehow manage to not see all that obvious stuffs.
There's nothing to read between the lines, Nasu spoonfeed everything well enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153290
>Yeah but his incarnations are summoned as mindless power so the emo gets filtered
Eh? What you have been getting at is basically that the Guardians while performing their work are mindless? I believe that you could have stated that a little more clearly and sure that could have supposedly been it was implied that the Force oculd have taken over.
In any case, the experience from it all is still recorded and it's still their own actions even witht he Force's meddling and he is still summoned in ways that allows him to feel, and when he can it ayn't that nice.
And there is never a pause for a Heroic Spirit, it was always happening.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153191
That's was I was thinking. Counter Guardians don't exist. Archer was a Guardian for mankind and I'm curious who transformed a logical term into something that doesn't exist in the original work

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153332
Go play Heaven's Feel and read KnK

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153332
The terms Coutner Force and Coutner Guardians occur several times, they are legit terms. If you missed them then you where apparently not just paying enough attention.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153343
Archer is a Guardian, that was said in his route. Everything else is not important.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153358

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153309
They state Archer became disillusioned after his death.

[Anonymous No.]

Might as well join the party.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153363
It is a cross Kinoko-work thing so you can't say it's not relevant. Kirei is comparing CG to Sakura.
Also see side material encyclopedia in pic and dictionary from KnK limited edition
抑止力【よくしりょく】【その他】
　ここで挙げているのは、集合無意識によって作られた安全装置の事。人が
願う破滅回避の祈りであるアラヤ、星が思う生命延長の祈りであるガイア
、の二つに分けられる。
　どちらも現在の世界の延長を目的とし、世界を滅ぼす要因が発生した瞬間
に出現、この要因を抹消する。
　無意識である為、発生しても誰の目にもとまらず、誰にも意識される事は
ない。
　抑止力はカタチのない力の渦で、抹消すべき対象に合わせて規模を変えて
出現する。絶対に勝利できるよう、対象を上回る数値で現れるのだ。
　たいていは抑止力によって後押しされた『一般人』が滅びの要因を排除し
、結果として『英雄』として扱われる。
　アラヤ側の抑止力によって英雄になった人間は、その死後はアラヤに組み
込まれるというが、その真偽は定かではない。
　カウンターガーディアンとも呼ばれる。カウンターであるところがミソ。
決して自分からは行動できず、起きた現象に対してのみ発動する。

[Anonymous No.]

He is obviously affected by the endless ammount of CG work he has done.
How can you miss that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153491
People aren't arguing that Servant Archer isn't affected, they're arguing that Counter Guardian Emiya wasn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153502
But they are the same.
Why would they not be, seriously?

If you take a drug that dulls your senses so that you cannot feel you are still the same person.
If you happen to do a lot of shit while under the effect of the drug, you can still suffer from it after it wears off.
And in Archer's case he can't prevent himself from doing a lot of things he doesn't want to do while under the effect of the "drug" and then remembering about it, and he also can't stop himself continuing to take it.
Of course he suffers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4153097
And then he completely forgets about it.

Sucks to be you, Archer.

However, I'd love to see a light novel that goes into Archer's back story like Fate/Zero and maybe at the end pulls one of the versions out of that hellish loop.

[Anonymous No.]

Shirou is a moralfag who is particularly good at reading other people. What's the problem? Are you so naive to think that people do not delude themselves or realise their own intentions when it might be obvious to another person? It's not that unusual at all.

I'll have you know that Shirou is my favourite character from anything at all, and I loved FSN.

[Anonymous No.]

If anything UBW Shirou is the worst one. Completely out of character, 180 in personality, becomes completely controlled by Sakura...

Oh, and the true ending is the stupid lol what that would never happen happy one, and the alternate ending is the more likely scenario you see in the other two route's true routes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4155023

Correction: I am referring to HF here