/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Alright, I've watched the shitfest that's called umineko anime and I want to know what happens next. Should I start from the beginning or should I just start playing ep 5? the anime has spoilt almost everything so I think it would be meaningless to start from the scratch. Doesn't the anime end just before Ep 5?

[Anonymous No.]

> Doesn't the anime end just before Ep 5?
Yes.
But seriously, just read the VN from Ep 1, it's much better than the anime and explains way more.

[Anonymous No.]

ITT

[Anonymous No.]

You won't understand Battler and Beatrice at all if you jump into EP5 after watching the anime.

[Anonymous No.]

If you seriously plan on starting at episode 5...
I pity you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992866
If you did not like the anime, actually enjoying the VN seems unlikely...
FInd something else to do.

[Suigin !fKazami5bE No.]

there is an umineko anime?

[Anonymous No.]

Guess what OP? You're fucked. If you start at episode 5 you will be confused as ever loving shit. If you start at episode one you will sit through 4 episodes full of shit you already half know is going to happen and will be bored to tears.

So those are your two options: Be bored to fucking tears for 4 novels worth or be confused as shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992866
Why the fuck did you watch the anime first?, are you fucking stupid or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992866
No. Though I realize this is probably a troll post that will lead to "DEEEEN" discussion, I'll answer.

In the end of the anime Battler is happily destroying Beato in the tea party. That never happened in the VN. In the VN, Battler fought against her but at the same time was worried about her as he still respects her and isn't a heartless asshole. So if you read ep 5 without reading the rest of the VN you'll be confused since you have shit like Battler curing and taking care of Beato and feeding her tea

[Anonymous No.]

read the VN, it's impossible to catch anything with just the anime

[Anonymous No.]

I wonder what anime Battler was so pissed off about. You'd think novel Battler would be the angry one after all those roids.

[Anonymous No.]

I'd say start from 3

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992936
it seems more than likely, the anime was horrible, it's like saying to a person, if yyou didn't like the Tsukihime anime you won't enjoy the VN. That can be said of many anime adaptations, so if someone tells me the source is better, I'd read it

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992959
There's a Tsukihime anime?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992959
The source is not really that much better.
Seriously.
Shit does not make actual sense in the VN either.
Anime lacks details and has certain omissions, but a much better presentation.
If your problem was 'something was missing', you may appreciate the VNs. If it was more 'This is impossible bullshit, what I am supposed to think of this', there is no improvement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992976
Maybe you should try giving some specific examples.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992953
they greter bunches taken are aminly from ep1 are 2, basically characterization, also you have to dl them all, so start from ep1, you got nothing to lose

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992973
Of course not. That's like saying that Umineko has an anime too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992940
I dunno, I watched the first 11 Episodes of the anime and I found Episode 1 and 2 still fairly interesting (except for the exposition for Episode 2 because I DGAF about George and Jessica). I liked the exposition in Episode 1, but not many people liked it as much as me.

Also Episode 2 is worth reading because it builds up Beato and Battler's relationship quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992976
It makes sense, if you're not a fucking moron that is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992976
>Anime lacks details and has certain omissions, but a much better presentation.

What? The anime made pretty much every scene that was awesome in the VN seem dull.

[Anonymous No.]

The anime was fine. Start from episode 5, OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993015
Haha what? are you fucking kidding me?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993005
Till he spoonfeeds the details, nothing makes sense on it's own.
It's not about being clever or stupid.
It's the way this is written.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993028
Are you? Take the scene in the OP for instance. You really think that was more exciting in the anime?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993015
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Anonymous No.]

i have played the first four chapters.
past tomorrow i'll have a six hour trip and i have heard that there is some way to play umineko on the psp.
Can someone tell me how? and if there is posibility to play episode 5 on the psp?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993034
All the fucking awesome scenes in the VN were ruined in the anime in every sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993034
Yes. By miles.
Missing some of the context/consistency? Sure.
Less exciting? No fucking way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993051
check animesuki trasnlation project, there should be a post in the last month about how to do it, also check the signs, one person has the link in one

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993054
You have some fucked up senses there, sonny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993051
I played Ep5 in the PSP, in japanese that is. Anyway, it's too much work, better get a laptop

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993056
Less exciting, A LOT, it didn't even half a quarter of the feeling of the original

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993056
>implying that George's fight was better in the anime
>implying that the episode 2 tea party was better in the anime

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993028
>>3993042
Am I being trolled here?

Goldsmith's summoning, George and Jessica's fights, EP4 Tea party, various scenes in early episodes where Dread of the Grave or Core were replaced by SUSPICION of all things, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993077
You're the one trolling, you can't possibly think those parts in the anime were better, I'll have you tested for mental illness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993077
Don't forget the awful Kinzo dragon scene.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993093
He's not the one saying they're better.

I think we're all having some sort of communication problem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993077
Wait wait, do you mean the anime or the VN?, I'm confused

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993071
Not implying anything.
Stating it clearly.
Especially teh George Fight was complete shit in the VN(Jessica scene too). Anime added the slightest hint of fluid pacing and suspense
>>3993077
Your preferring a certain BGM does not make the scenes worse.

You fags confuse accuracy/faithfulness with presentation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993103
They could have replaced those BGM with an original composition of the same feeling and it would have been fine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993103
Suspense? I only saw shitty animation and voice acting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993103
George's fight in the VN complete shit?

Confirmed for no fucking taste.

[Anonymous No.]

Fucking hell I'm confused who's supporting what!

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993120
>shitty voice actors
Ok, I hate the anime but that's a huge lie. The voice actors were godly except for maybe Ronove's that kept slurring all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993123
At least you admit it on your own that you have none.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993120
Trying too hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993137
>"no u" response

[Suigin !fKazami5bE No.]

remember Virgilia's Spear the Gungnir?
I dont

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993152
Yes, cause his post was full of constructive arguments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993135
Beato's voice is absolute shit, same a Battler's

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993135
Daisuke Ono was pretty awful as Battler. All he did was alternate between screaming and speaking normally.

Fucking Kon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993164
Ok that's... no.

Did you play the VN in mute too?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993159
Yes, that's vital.
Especially with 'SHIELD IT MUST NOT HIT, WOOT, they fly away'.
Glorious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993159
I had high hopes for that scene, completely ruined.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993169
That's what Battler does mostly.

[Anonymous No.]

ITT

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993178
Yes, but it's nice to throw some emotion in there from time to time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993172
You know it to be true

[Anonymous No.]

at least re read ep 4 since they fucked up the most there

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993186
He does.
Smartass talk and whiny baby.
That's what Battler does in the VN 99% of the time up to 4.
He got his 'I'm a Hardass' couple moments down too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993169
Daisuke Ono is a great Battler. Is not his fault that Chiaki Kon made Battler so AAAANGRY AND BITERRRRR that he didn't have a chance to speak like a normal person.

[Anonymous No.]

let's post some animeBattler mots (related to ep5)

[Anonymous No.]

None of this is the case, the fact that the anime out vital details of the story is enough reason to hate.

[Anonymous No.]

Anime doesn't have all the EP3 segment where Eva and EVA tries to solve the riddle.

Also Lambda is plain as fuck in the animu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993209
NOw, with his anime sidekick from ep5 onwards

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993209
I like Battler's jackass face motivators better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993217
That's a valid reason, though up to 3, I'd say nothing 'vital' is out at least for characterization (since the bullshit that actually matters is only know to R7).

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993222
She looks just like she is supposed to be.
Unless you expected the animators to also stretch the face like you do with mario in SM64.
And you are never shown the solution of the riddle, just scenes where the VN tells you 'she figures it out'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993103
...Just what in the world is wrong with you? Do you lack imagination to visualize the things you read or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993103
>Especially teh George Fight was complete shit in the VN(Jessica scene too).
HAHAHA OH WOW.
HAVE YOU EVEN READ IT?
YOU MUST NOT HAVE READ IT!

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993222
I think she's cute! Look at those ribbons.

[Anonymous No.]

Episodes 24-26 of the anime were the lead weights that broke the camel's back for me. So much missing, so much fucked up, it's not even funny.

I remember scraping over the errors in Higurashi. This is worse by miles.

[Anonymous No.]

Just wait on the second season anime. Both VNs are shitty, and there's no point reading them at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993249
>>3993248
On the contrary, shitty overexposition and dialogue and ridiculous characterization for these specific scenes do not even allow my imagination to salvage it.
If you people consider this a good fight scene (or description of it), gongrats.
Do not assume people universally like the same shit you do.

[Anonymous No.]

Virgilia and Goat Onii-chan in EP4 are enough excuse.

[Anonymous No.]

Obviously people who prefer the anime over the VN are just not used to reading. The VN is superior for the fact that you get to imagine everything witht the help of the music and atmosphere. The anime just imposes some shitty depiction of it.

[Anonymous No.]

ITT anime-only fag tells VN readers that the anime is better

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993292
It is most likely the OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993288
this

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993287
> 13 fps
Upgrade from XP to 7 faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993288
People not enjoying certain VN aspects and arguing the anime does better presentation most of the time, even if it's not a faithful adaptation means they cannot read and they do not belong in the glorious VN master race, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993302
I don't think have any idea how CPU intensive Umineko is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993302
Oh u

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993312
Yup

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993312
But the anime didn't have better presentation.

Even if the fucking novel didn't exist, the anime would still have awful presentation. Remember that scene where Ange stood with a blank face in the background as Battler denied himself? Remember that scene where Battler stayed quiet for two minutes after he found his parents dead, then started screaming?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993274
And that's why I say you lack imagination. Instead of actually reading what he writes and thinking how awesome it would look you prefer bland and boring anime versions.
Okay, Ryuukishi's writing isn't perfect indeed (though I'd question translation too), but saying anime version is BETTER? That's what cracks me up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993313

Yes, I mean, look at all those words on the screen, and that "detailed" art. You'd need one of those new fancy "PC" things to run that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993274
People without the ability to suspend disbelief should go live their life as a slave to corporate businesses.
No, I am not assuming that everyone likes what I like.
But, if you insist on saying that the anime is better than the visual novel, you simply have bad taste.
It's like turning your nose to a fabulous supper, eating in the garbage, and then saying it's delicious because it's "low on fat".
You, who cannot take in the whimsicle nature of Umineko, would best stay away from anything of any literary finesse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993333
you should also question the language it's translated to, let's say English isn't the most beautiful language and the most appropiate to translate

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993342
>It's like turning your nose to a fabulous supper, eating in the garbage, and then saying it's delicious because it's "low on fat".

I chuckled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993333
>>3993331
The writing just does not give a good fucking impression.
It's supposed to direct your imagination. I could make up irrelevant shit that make it exciting, but that is not the point.
R7 just does not have a good sense of setting up the atmosphere and giving an intense feeling.
The anime, while not stellar on it's own(mediocre series at best for me), did a BETTER job in comparison. R7 suffers from overexposition and writing far too much irrelevant shit, and the character's internal speeches ruin the mood greatly at times. Anime cutting on irrelevant shit helps the pace and presentation (of course, it cuts relevant shit too, but that is a different problem).
You should just accept that I do not like the writing, especially for these particular scenes.
If the anime hides these flaws somewhat, it improves upon the scene.

[MANkoto !/uhtKOHuio No.]

I stopped watching after I saw how much they butchered Rosa's episode 2 scene. God fucking damn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993371
Then go back to /a/ you are obviously not welcome here and you do not agree with our views.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993342
It's more like eating the ice-cream without it being covered inside 100 wrappers each saying in 100 different ways 'It's delicious, you should eat it and enjoy it'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993371
..in other words, you don't like Umineko.

I don't get why you're still in this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993371
>overexposition and writing far too much irrelevant shit
How do you manage to read books, I wonder.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993383
/a/ doesn't agree with him either, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993371
It's a flaw FOR YOU, I find all the exposition perfect to set the mood, it gives you detailed description of what's happening, what the characters are thinking and what you need to knbow to imagine it. the anime didn't have any of those, not even in normal scenes, Beatrice was supposed to reflect about her condition in the anime, you remember that? neither do i
The anime didn't do a good job at the presentation, it lacked the atnmosphere and tension Ryu created, wihich is heavily improved by a right music choice, the battles in the anime were the epithome of boredom, the same with the tea party in ep4, I didn't give a shit compared to the VN

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993390
I like the setting, characters and overall circumstances.
I only have a problem with the presentation with certain scenes that take over about 30% of the content.
I want to see what happens next.
I do not delude myself concerning the quality of teh author.
>>3993383
Yes, cause all of /jp/ adores everything about Umineko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993371
Just get out, geez

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993371
>R7 just does not have a good sense of setting up the atmosphere and giving an intense feeling.
Now this is simply not true.
Maybe, through your own illiteracy, the stunted nature of your reading speed had made the lecture choppy?
And how is the indiscriminate, and almost, if not arbitrary omission of much "irrelevent shit" suppose to contribute to the mystery novel genre?
Seriously, if you want shonen action, then read some Jump, kid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993383
In /a/ the "READ THE VN" faggotry is worse.

He should just go to animesuki.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3992872
>>3992872
IT

[Anonymous No.]

Taken from Van Dine, equal to Knox rule:
>16. A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations. such matters have no vital place in a record of crime and deduction. They hold up the action and introduce issues irrelevant to the main purpose, which is to state a problem, analyze it, and bring it to a successful conclusion. To be sure, there must be a sufficient descriptiveness and character delineation to give the novel verisimilitude.

/a/fag is right. Ryukishi is bad mystery writer rofl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993428
>implying Umineko is not a destruction of mystery series

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993422
he wouldn't survive there, it's the translator HQ, I usually go there and no one ever talks aboutb how he writes, NEVER, they focus on mysteries and whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993428
>implying Umineko is not a deconstruction of mystery series

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993413
Yes, I must be an idiot if I do not agree.
Also, if you think this is how a mystery is supposed to be, and it's well done at that, you have never read an actual mystery novel ever. Especially if you judge this story as a mystery, it's where the flaws shine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993441
It's not.
Just takes the various mechanics, presents them and ignores them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993426
Information Technology?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993428
Take that, VNfags.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993442
see >>3993442

Please come back when you understand the entire point of Erika's character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993428
If you still think Umineko is a mystery novel you're mistaken.
Also, >>>/rs/No Dine

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993428
Knox's were a joke, so joke's on you

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993451
I think you quoted something wrong.
Also, I just started episode 5,any comments applies up to 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993428
Ryu treates van Dine's rulesa s toilet paper, he doesn't even folow one and contradicts them INTNIONALLY in most cases
-Van Dine: no love for development->without love it cannot be seen
-Van Dine: you can't use as proofs cigarrette butts->ep3 4th-6th
He makes this kind of thins for the most patr, but let's say van Dine was too much of a purist and his stories usually are pretty plain because of his 'only information relevant to the solution' part

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993459
This guy insists so.
>>3993413

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993451
Uhhh

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993428
Without the truth being unveiled, how can you tell that these things aren't needed, nay, essential, to the mystery?
Furthermoar, please understand that Umineko is a fantasy novel.
The fantasy depics a mystery in a fantastic way.
In that sense, isn't the information suitable for it's genre?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993469
The fact he's mistaken doesn't make you any less mistaken, my friend.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993461
You're right. Second quote was supposed to be >>3993441

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993442
But Umineko is NOT a damned mystery novel, you illiterate ape.
It's a fantasy novel.
Have you not noticed the witches, the magic, THE FANTASY?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993491
I'm not the guy who posted the rules or whatever.
I just stated that this is not a mystery novel, and should not be regarded as such.
There are mechanics used, but that's it.

[Anonymous No.]

Have you never read some kind of over expositive boo' tehn you'd know what Ryu does can't be compared to it. i.e. the pillars of the Earth , heck even Stephen King likes extensive description so you can understand the situation, and that doesn't kill the horror of his novels even the least, it increases it by atmospheric and character depiction

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993498
witches and magic don't exist

[Anonymous No.]

>This thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993492
Then, to put it simply, it's a BAD deconstruction.
The mystery mechanics are just part of the story, nowhere near the focus in any case.
The fantasy and conflict of ideas are much more prevalent themes.

[Anonymous No.]

>121 posts and 10 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993501
Over-exposition never has a GOOD meaning.
It's much more than needed.
Different occasion need different amount of course, but 'over' means it went to the point that it's tiring or unneeded to inform the reader or set the tone and setting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993532
So you know how to read and quote.
Amazing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993060
i have searched and found this... sounds like crazy insane work. Altough i will do it.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2727761&postcount=2720

still, this doesn't seem to work for ep 5... right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993544
I did it for Ep5, used the latest japanese ONScripter port which allows convertion of movies, etc

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993535
sorry, but I was just using your own teminology, in my opinion is just exposition, sorry for misleading you in some way. The exposition is more than needed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993587
It's not my own unique terminology.
Of course you need exposition at certain parts of the story. I guess we disagree on whether he overdoes it or not. It's not so bad that I stopped reading Umineko, but I feel the presentation could be much smoother instead of tiring at certain scenes.
Ep3 and 4 are the major offenders for that.

[Anonymous No.]

scenes that were cool in the anime:

maria's close up when natsuhi dies.

natsuhi dieing and falling to the floor.

that's it. every thing else was superior in the VN. the anime managed to fuck up the "hurry up sign" part so bad i wanted to punch the computer monitor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993620
No love for kung-fu Ange, I see.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993620
>"hurry up sign" part
I don't quite remember this part.
Can you elaborate?

[Type R !tsGpSwX8mo No.]

Umineko anime was good. Fuck your shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993735

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993620
'Hurry up' was awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993735
the troll in ep3

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993735
that part was ok in the anime, but for some reason i preferred it in the VN.

in fact, that part of the anime was the one that made me read the VN.

i would have preferred to start with the VN.

in general the anime was... ok with some good moments.

the VN it's superior in all the posible ways except for graphics. I can clearly see why people whines in rage to Deen.

[Anonymous No.]

I feel proud being the only one who doesn't care about nekofaggotry. Best poster on /jp/. Feels good man

[Anonymous No.]

WHERE'S BATTLER SMASHING BEATO'S FACE IN A TABLE DEEN?!

The only good thing in the anime is see Sakutarou being raped.

[Anonymous No.]

>watching the anime before reading the vn

[Anonymous No.]

How do you do those spoiler tags, anyway? I tried doing like this like it seems to say in the FAQ, but it didn't work, and I never felt like asking, because I figured people would just call me a newfag. But whatever, best to figure it out at some point.

[Anonymous No.]

Wat. It worked that time. Nevermind then, dunno what went wrong first time I tried that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994000
Maybe you typed "spoilers" instead of "spoiler". That seems to be the common mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

If you really don't want to read the first four Episodes. Then I recommend at least reading EP4's tea party before starting EP5. DEEN cut a lot of the red and blue used and didn't properly show how Battler treats Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

Sure is animefags ITT.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3993934
SAKUTARO! <3

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994119
Nobody said the anime was better than the VN in all aspects or that it did not have problems as an adaptation.
But people thinking that someone who watched the anime and did NOT like it(calling it shit) would enjoy the VN are idiots, since the core of the story remains.
If you are not interested at all, the VN won't be magically better.
Which scenes are done better in whichever medium is an opinion shitfest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994203
Are you insane? Did you not notice that the anime ruined all of the mystery sections? Did you not notice that they contradicted themselves 3 times in the last episode?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994341
The 'mystery' sections suck balls in the VN already.
I cannot take the mystery seriously after episode 2.
As for the last episode, I will personally admit I do not know, since I stopped watching at 15(though in the original VN they contradict themselves or provide inconsistent information with poor 'logical' arguments as an excuse also)
My main point though is that somebody who starts with the anime and hates it is unlikely to enjoy the VN, not which is the superior version. If you found it interesting somewhat, sure, you should read the VN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994395
Oh, and where does the VN ever contradict itself unintentionally?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994410
I just said it doesn't, just that the explanations are sketchy or not well-defined at times. Again, different point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994395
>cannot take the mystery seriously after episode 2.

A third-rate mind giving up to the fantasy scenes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994431
I have not given up to anything.
I am just saying that the mystery angle, regardless of explanation is done poorly. As far as a mystery story goes, Umineko is bad.
Thankfully, it's not the main focus, since mystery mechanics provide mostly the setting and circumstances.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994447
You are incompetent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994459
get a life you nerd

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994459
So are you.
If lots of people were competent, there would be already a proper explanation, not a thousand ones.
And taht is exactly why the mystery setup is bad.

[Anonymous No.]

It's magic !
Dead people don't stay alive in mysteries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994480
So wait, you're saying we're supposed to figure everything out during the question arcs, then just sit through the answer arcs as they confirm what we already know?
The best types of mysteries are the ones that only a very few people can solve. Just because you aren't one of them is nothing to complain about. Just try to guess as many parts as you can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994480
People wondering about the mystery=bad mystery
People already figured out the mystery= good mystery

okay, sure, whatever you say.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994480
So the mystery is bad because you don't get it.

<Cool>.

[Anonymous No.]

How can anyone even like bernkastel after this?
God, bernfags are so fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994549
Some people such as myself love irredeemable trolls. I find the fact that she's such a horrible person entertaining and that's why I like her so much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994549
I like Bernkastel more after EP5, and Beatrice less. Beato is so old and busted now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994571
>>3994584
You guys should kill yourselfs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994589
>yourself

retard

[Anonymous2007 !7AnImelIIg No.]

>>3994589
No u

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994604
Their not retarded your retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

The more of a troll Bern is, the more I love her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994509
>>3994535
It's bad mystery setup.
No reliable narration, coming up with 10000 theories and implementing fantasy for explanation is bullshit. It's a bad presentation.
It's not supposed to be easy to solve, but it's not supposed to be fucking lottery either.
If you have a theory that works, it should explain all aspects without contradictions, and nobody has done that that I know of. Even wrong theories can manage to explain the situation at times, but there are too many fucking unreliable variables.
This does not challenge you to solve a mystery based on clues, it's borderline random guessing as to where even fucking start your train of thought.

If you consider Umineko a good mystery novel, you have no idea what a mystery is supposed to be like.

Not to mention that the mystery itself is not the major focus of the story.

Just because you guys like spouting theories and think you are clever coming up with ridiculous shit and Umineko gives you teh material, it does not mean this is a good mystery or that you are clever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994631
But Umineko is not supposed to be a regular mystery. You're working off the assumption that it is, when Ryukishi is not trying for anything of the sort.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994631
>If you don't agree with me, you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994639
Whichever kind of a mystery it is, it's bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994631
Maybe you didn't hear, but according to Ryuukishi, some people have already gotten very close to solving the series.
Furthermore, he said that those people should be able to predict what happens next in EP5, so this isn't random guesswork we're talking about here.

It's pretty much a moot point right now anyways, since EP6 will probably make most of the answers clear.
Also, if you're judging the quality of theories just from the English forums, remember that the Japanese fanbase is 10 times the size and actually speaks Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994631
Want me to explain every aspect of the mistery in Umineko without any kind of contradictions? if you want I can, but, of course, it's possibly wrong, but my theory can explain every mystery in game wothout contradictions, by knox rules. But it has no love, that's the lacking part

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994653
Not really. It's fine for what it wants to be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994631
We were able to spout a shitload of random theories because of Devil's Proof.
Now, with Knox' rules, we have no such luxury.
Obviously, you aren't up to date with Umineko.
If Knox' rules are indeed upheld, then it is a fitting mystery, no?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994631
Most, if not all mysteries Umineko presented until now have been solved.
The people who solved them posted them online for everyone to view and discuss.
For the ones who think they solved the mystery, chiru adds to the story and tells them that they are right.
For everyone else, chiru gives them more clues to figure it out themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994664
And you actually believe what he said? That's just so you don't give up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994664
Apart from the fact that it can be bull, it's very, very unfair to the reader. It's too fucking tiring to even recollect teh setting and clues, never mind the variable settings. Of course a FEW people will get close, but not because they were smarter or more careful. Most explanations have a reasoning and a chance, some happen to be correct.
>>3994668
It has no love because it makes sense? Also,Knox's rules are not what defines a mystery. It's just bad presentation, if you regard this as a mystery(or rather, completely unfitting). That's what it boils down to.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994631
The detective's point of view is reliable narration.

Oh and if you consider Umineko is supposed to be a good mystery novel, you have no idea what Umineko is like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994682
Until the author confirms it, it is not a solution , just an explanation that works.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994699
lol grammar

[Anonymous No.]

Sounds like he's only watched the anime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994696
Itb has no love because I treat characters cruelly and without any kind of consideration, just as mere pieces. Also the information I give for the 'why dunnit' it's completely subjective to fragments of conversation and lines from certain characters I used
The only thing that escapes my knowledge is the who was Beatrice and battelr's sin, I think I can explain it, but it's completely dissatisfying for me

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994699
Are you fucking kidding me?
I'm saying Umineko is not supped to be regarded as a mystery story in the first place. And I am saying the mystery aspect implemented in the story is bad. Whichever the point of umineko, the presentation of a certain aspect that exists in the story is bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994711
From the beginning on, when a riddle/mystery was created, there was already a solution.
It's just that you can't just enter the solution, press the "submit" button and get your confirmation.

[Anonymous No.]

Personally while I still enjoy Umineko, I don't enjoy the setup that's much.

Or rather I think that the fantasy scenes lack impact and "bricks" for me simply because they are fantasy and because of the way they always seem to go more and more over the top.
I don't know if I make myself understand well, but basically because I can't take these scenes seriously, I can't really "feel" for them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994735
...Ok, that's just fucking retarded.
When you explain HOW something happened, emotion is unessential in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994699
He keeps saying that Umineko is not anything like a mystery novel, so I doubt he believes that.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994739
I'm saying that it isn't supposed to be regarded as a proper mystery but that the mystery aspect implemented in the story is not bad. It's difficult and confusing on purpose but solvable. Just because it's not in the traditional form doesn't make it bad.

Also no knox no dine no fair

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994752
But you know the motto of umineko without love, the truth cannot be seen. that's why my theory is only at erika's level, lacking in the core (also surely disproven in next episodes) It's my truth according to the next part of the quen, my truth till now with the info given
if you wanna hear i'd like to, but people can get too irreasonable because most of these theories I use for my own like to be sunned as false, but at this point of time aren't disproven

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994754
I know, it wasn't directed specifically at him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994762
It's way too confusing and convoluted.
And with it not being the sole focus (add the fantasy aspects), it becomes TIRING to try and connect the scenes on your own(which is not helped by R7's writing which tends to be excessive).
The initial setting and circumstances are interesting, bu the bullshits and adds too many variables for the mystery to be enjoyable.
If this was not done in installments but rather a full VN, I think more people would realize it just drags and is tiring.
And it does not matter if it's a ' not traditional take' or not. He is not the first one who takes a unique perspective. I am saying THIS specific presentation sucks.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994796
So you're saying it's a boring novel.

That's different from a bad mystery.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994771
Truth can be seen easily without love.
If we had a fucking camera that records everything and shows what happens, that's it.
The love only has to do with the REASONING behind the actions, not what happened by itself.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994814
He's saying the motive is the biggest mystery.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994814
That's why I said my 'why dunnit' was a bit lacking, since it's basically doing what erika did to Natsuhi to three people, without base, jus because it cannot be disproven

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994806
I'm not saying it's a boring novel.
I still read it. I especially like the characters and most of their interactions. But I find the mystery aspect bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994821
Even if clues direct to a possible reasoning, 'I am crazy' or 'Brain parasites' works, and he is not above doing that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994829
sorry, it has a base, but may be an imaginary one that I made just because the red-herrings

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994832
Sorry, don't take the "boring" part too literally.

Oh well

Guess you're entitled to an opinion

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994849
Guess?
Oh boy. You guys eat this shit up way too gladly.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994861
You don't want me to accept your opinion?

Uh, I'd have other things to do than argue with you.

[Anonymous No.]

You haters of the VN's mystery aspect aren't making any sense at all. You say "oh, there are thousands of theories so just choose your pick", but no one on any English board has laid out a theory that explains everything yet.
It's the exact opposite: there are hardly any theories out there that explain everything at once.

Unless you can point out 2 theories that might explain everything, you cannot prove that there is more than one way to solve the game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994924
Not the other guy.
But personally it's not that I hate the mystery aspect nor that I find it too easy or too hard.
I just feel disatisfied in the way it's presented.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994907
I do not care what the fuck you do with my opinion. But I am entitled to one regardless of what you think.
And no, you don't.Otherwise, you would not have responded.
You guys misinterpret other people statements in a fucking wrong way when it comes to shit you like, to the point it's annoying.

[Anonymous No.]

>NOT SHOWING MARIA WAS POISONED IN EP4

There, i completely fucked the Anti-VN side.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994924
I've said it before, you want me to post my theory to every mystery in the game (but the epitaph, sorry I'm no genius to guess a jap riddle)
It has the who, how and why. Based on my own guesses and many theories I've read in some forums so it actually fits its holes. I admit most theories can be debatted till the end, some have already been, For example the ep5 theories now are the sames I thought back in august

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994924
That's nowhere near the only issue. See:
>>3994935
Bad presentation matters too.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994938
But I just said you're entitled to an opinion. And I'm not in the mood for fighting about it.

Why are you trying to see me as hostile

[Anonymous No.]

Um, just passing by...

Contradictions shown until now were either intentional or clues, even.
But I definitely agree on that Umineko is more about ideas than stories. Because story without a moral is meaningless by definition. If it has none, you end up at Dine's "That happened. After that that happened. After that another thing happened. Oh, mr.Detective came up with what MIGHT've happened in between! How flawlessly logical he is! Now we know what happened!".
The presentation of ideas is good. Ryu keeps calling it a "tale". Umineko is better off not being math.

My personal guess is that Umineko's main point is going to be "Love is destructive".
If that makes no sense to you, you should propably read the novel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994941 not showing a mutherfucking BUNDLE of keys being left beside her body
That one was a bit more important I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994946
I do not care for your explanation, since my issue is that the mystery aspect is badly presented, has a bad set-up and is tiring. The explanation itself being possibly bullshit annoys me too, but till I see it, I cannot actually criticize it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994951
I'm seeing you as a fucking annoying guy who cannot understand what my point is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994924
What do you mean?
The existence of multiple culprits is clear since Battler was shot.

[Anonymous No.]

Go away anime only watcher.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995006
You mean the OP?
That would kill the point of his thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994971
In don't find any of those true, i hate Erika a lot but I'm like her, those many falsities and posible reason, those many red-herrings, fantastic explanations and whatsoevere that hides the mystery just makes it more appealing. the mystery might be the weakest point in the whole novel, but it's the only reason it keeps me hooked like this.
It's so entertainning when things have so many obstacles, if it were Christie's books or Knox's books, i read them too fast (which I enjoy since i don't really like long explanations to set up even the minimum detail, Umineko can exceed this but the info is useful at least), ofc I also hate van Dine's works, too esquematic and get boring because the book itself has no real 'flesh' besides the mystery. even then, these books just give you every hint you'd need almost outright, Ryu misleads you so much it only makes me feel i want to solve it more
Either way different opinions, I llike being put obstacles, debating everything and seeing other people's also valid theories

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995019 kill the point of this thread
Ah, at times I forget I am at /jp/. Thanks for reminding me.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3994989
You don't care for the presentation of the mystery. For example, I assume, the way it's intertwined and spanned over several separate stories which makes it overly confusing to solve, and the sheer amount of the material doesn't make it any easier. You're concerned over what information can be even relied on at all, and probably think that the mystery should be solvable on your own efforts only.

That would be silly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995040
I care, I really do.
And I consider it bad enough to be unappealing.
And with his overall writing (plus my experiences from Higurashi), it's obvious he bullshits and and presents too much unnecessary shit, which makes the elimination process and reaching the conclusion tiring. Thinking about the mystery should be engaging whilst you follow the story, not a separate chore that drags on. The mystery SHOULD be solvable by my efforts (or as close as it can get), with me just being unable to confirm it till the end. 1000 explanations and so many misdirections with the problems which makes it too fucking improbable to EVEN care is a no-no, especially in a bad presentation with so many other themes mixing in.
There.
As clear as my opinion can fucking get.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3994832
Itt i need to complain about something to be the cool kid

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995194
Cause people cannot dislike something about shit I like, no sir.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3995097
I said care for, not care about.

Solving the mystery is not even designed to be a solo effort, which should already be obvious from the link to the BBS inviting people to discuss it within the game itself. To me it seems like you're complaining that Counter Strike is too hard when you're trying to beat an entire opposing team on your own. It's not impossible, but that's not exactly how you're supposed to play it.

The clues, motivations, metaphors and such are hidden within that unnecessary shit, but unlike Higurashi, Umineko is not a slice-of-life. It's a fantasy/romance with a murder mystery as a plot device.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995210
That's bullshit.
Really.
'To enjoy something you read, you must confer about it with others'. You seriously posted that with a straight face? That's a fucking bad analogy.
Silly semantics do not change the point. How can you care for something you consider BAD, which is my point?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995210
Stop feeding the troll.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995241
Your idea of trolling is weird.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995097
How about you ignore umineko existence until all episodes are released and then read it on one go? Because that's pretty much what im seeing you complain. That you only get the answer at the end.

Sorry but in every mystery novel you will only get the answers by the end. You can solve it before, but if the mystery isnt third rate you will only know the absolute truth at the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995253
If you think that's the only complaint I have, you are an idiot. I don't care what the solution will be, it's mostly the process . I have said too many fucking times, it's a bad set-up and presentation. And there are other aspects I enjoy about Umineko, it's not like the mystery is the sole point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995280
Go write a letter than.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3995233
>'To enjoy something you read, you must confer about it with others'.
Didn't say that. More like "to enjoy Umineko the way it's meant to be enjoyed, you must confer about it with others". It's simply the way it was written. R07 reads the theories and reactions of the people who try to solve the mystery and adjusts the episodes accordingly. He intentionally comes up with lots of different sorts of mysteries so that group effort is practically required to solve them all.

If you don't like that, then you're just playing the wrong game.

>How can you care for something you consider BAD
I claimed you don't care for it. You responded "I care, I really do." I don't know which one of us made a mistake there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995280
No.
In first place you like to complain and that's why you are complaining. If you didnt like it so much you werent answering this thread for so long.

In second place you are mad because you ''cant solve the mystery'' and think that the series is too long because you already readed 5 EPs and dont have a clue, also you stopped trying to solve anything at all because you think you cant solve it.

Most of this problem will simply disappear if you dont fucking follow the series in the same way as us that like this episode thing. You will get all the story as you want, will (not) try to solve this shit alone and will probably notice that umineko isnt really that long and dragging. I mean, Fate is bigger than Ep 1~5.

So my friend, fuck off and let umineko theorycrafting/discussions to the people that like this kind of shit.

In b4 complains about ''ryuukishi not being a good writer'' and i telling you to go to a fucking literature forum and not a VN-fan one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995310
Again, bullshit.
Regardless of where he bases of his writing, enjoyment is simply derived from reading it on your own. Anything other than that being required to enjoy it is unnecessary ox balls.

And to dumb it down for you, I care about the mystery. I read the story carefully. But I consider the mystery BAD. So caring for it to the point I waste too much fucking time on forming theories and posting on imageboards arguing with people who cannot get the point of others is a no-no. Considering I have said so from the very beginning, your claim is fucking redundant and makes it obvious you misinterpret my posts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995328
Firstly, it has nothing to do with joy.
Secondly, I do not want to try to solve the mystery. Whether I would be able to or not, who knows.
And there are other things that intrigue me about Umineko, ignoring the releases and waiting till the end does not solve the problem (I would still dislike what I dislike) and I would be left hanging.
People can discuss this shit as much as they like, this was not a speculation thread and I do not barge on them to say 'LOL, YOU GUYS ARE IDIOTS, IT'S USELESS TO ARGUE'
Finally, regardless of the medium, I think he has flaws as a writer. So I am not allowed to post If I do not suck his cock without protesting?
Fans should not be so defensive.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3995335
>Regardless of where he bases of his writing, enjoyment is simply derived from reading it on your own.
If that's how you see it, then there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. Some people derive their enjoyment from discussing their theories and opinions online rather than just simply reading the novel and even trying to figure it out alone.

Derp. Maybe I should've just said "you don't like the presentation of the mystery" instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995372
Amusingly enough there are many posts in speculation threads saying exactly ''It´s useless to argue'' with the same arguments as you. As i cannot prove if you did or didnt posted something i will chose to trust your word.

Anyway, you are the one on the defensive and making misconceptions. You know, everyone has its own damn opinion and it doesnt care for anyone, you came here and said yours, we got it. But the fact that we dont agree with you at all doesnt make us mindless-full-of-rage-fans just people who think different of you. So as much as some of us may mistreat you as a troll you shouldnt mistreat us as something you dont know if we are or not.

Back to the topic, i gave you a solution to your complains about the mystery and whatsover, you dont like that solution. Well its your choice, just dont go on atacking the way this tale is released because you chose to read it bit by bit like all of us(that like to read it like that).

Well, whatever...

[Anonymous No.]

Hurr opinions.
Thread hidden.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995444
Which is what I have repeated 20 fucking thousand times.
And people can obviously derive enjoyment over discussion of something they have read/seen, be it online or in person.
It being a REQUIREMENT is what is bollocks.
Also, I have to sleep, so no answers for the next 5 hours from me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995449
Last one. I do not have an issue with the way the VN is released. At all. You misinterpreted something.
And there is no solution to me disliking how certain parts of the VN are written, to oversimplify the matter. You really missed the point.
Sayonara.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3995460
>It being a REQUIREMENT is what is bollocks.
Which is where we disagree. Like I already said, I can't convince you otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

Itt people dont lose or win arguments in the internet even if one side or the other is right.

Even so people like the attention of arguing in the internet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995460
I know you're gone, but it's not really a requirement, you can jus enjopy it own your own, it's just optional. Ofc, like with every VN is funnier to comment it w/ people, but it's not a conditio sine quanon to enjoy it

[Anonymous No.]

>>3995511
He's not gone.
Trust me.

[None !OSakaQCVow No.]

>>3995504
It's important in life to be able to argue well. Internet is good practice.