/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Hey guys, how many of you have played Touhou on Hard mode? Do you use it as a phase when training yourself for Lunatic or do you jump straight from like, Normal to Lunatic?

I'm interested because I'm making a danmaku game of my own and have been thinking about making the easy mode a tad easier than easy on IN, normal equivalent to IN's easy, hard equivalent to IN's normal and then just have Lunatic as Lunatic.

As I'm not really all that great player myself (I haven't even beaten IN on Normal) I need some other people's input for this.

[Anonymous No.]

Start on lunatic, never look back.

[Anonymous No.]

>easier than easy on IN
That's a terrible idea.

[Anonymous No.]

>easier than easy on IN
Obligatory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905494
>making the easy mode
that's a terrible idea

[Suigin !YUsuiginy. No.]

i take it easy and go from hard to lunatic

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905511
Well, today's casual hamhands would probably fail miserably even at IN's easy. Gotta give them some change too. And if they get some feeling of success, it might make them consider beating it on harder difficulty etc.

And really, as I said, Lunatic would still be Lunatic. The difficulty scope would just be wider.

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

I always just play on Lunatic.

>>3905494
>>have been thinking about making the easy mode a tad easier than easy on IN

How is that even possible? Does the game play itself or something? Those bullets in IN moved so slow.

Also it seems really weird that a person who can't beat a STG would also decide to make one.

[Anonymous No.]

>easier than easy on IN
Is....
Is that possible?

Also, if you can't Lunatic, you probably shouldn't be making any Danmaku games.

[Anonymous No.]

I wouldn't mind playing a danmaku game where the bullets dodged you.

[Anonymous No.]

Something like this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905556
>Also it seems really weird that a person who can't beat a STG would also decide to make one.

Just because I can't beat one on Normal doesn't mean I wouldn't love the genre. Even if I die, the game is still fun. I'm an indie game developer anyway and creating an STG is something I've thought about for a long time.

Of course playtesting the harder stuff will be a bit more problematic, but for my own testing I'm going to use infinite bullet time to test that patterns are at least technically possible, then I will try to get some EXPERT DANMAKU PLAYERS to test it out as well.

>>>easier than easy on IN
>How is that even possible?

Oh, it's plenty possible. Just a while ago I played some Nanoha STG I've had lurking around on my HDD for ages. It had like seven difficulty levels, and damn, the easiest ones were ridiculously easy. Oh well, the game sucked bigtime anyway because it was so damn audiovisually boring.

[Anonymous No.]

>op is that guy from doritos contest

[Anonymous No.]

I jumped right from 'never played danmaku' to hard.
managed to survive keine, owned by marissa on my first run.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905657
Nah, not BEEJAY FROM WASKOM, TEXAS. My game is a shameless Touhou ripoff, I don't have any intention of hiding it and I'm not submitting it to a creative game ideas competition to win $50k. I am actually making it for a competition though, but there's no kind of actual prizes involved, so yeah.

And I'm actually making it instead of just tracing over IN's bullet patterns.

[Anonymous No.]

OP, if you want to make Danmaku easier, you need to add more bullets. Often times patterns for easy modes are even more confusing because they lack bullets that push you to the right place, ending up in an near inescapable spot.

[Anonymous No.]

Does anyone know how well ZUN plays his games?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905756
From what I heard he can beat his Lunatics.

Though whether he plays in slowmode or not isn't sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905756
ZUN is the guy playing the demos that play when you stay idle on the menu screen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905715
Huh, is that why I tend to find normal harder then lunatic. I always thought it was because I got to relaxed in easier modes and made stupid mistakes, well maybe that's true as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905756
ZUN doesn't plays his games
He has testers to do it

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

>>3905695
SKIES ABLAZE more like DRAGON BLAZE.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2309283

Copy those later stage bosses, OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905756
ZUN can beat hards, hard is the difficulty he enjoys and is capable of playing. Lunatic is designed for people better than him, such as some of his playtesters. He probably could beat Lunatic if sober though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905799
Sober? ZUN? Blasphemy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905789
Also, skies ablaze guy has a new response. I recommend you guys come up with some intelligent answers, rather than just yelling rip-off.


beej

>(Q1) Story: This might have been my downfall with this idea, because I worked on the story far more than anything else, which ultimately had no place in the presentation. The story is about a rogue dragon that is terrorizing the land. The main characters have seperate agendas. The female takes it upon herself to save the land by alleviating the threat. The male looks for personal gain by slaying the beast. This is just the gist of it, but I have worked on scenarios and dialogues for most of it. To tell you the truth, I had more fun with this part of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905839
>(Q2) Why Magic? Magic has always been an interest of mine. It's a staple of fantasy fiction. Something about a mage, so much hidden power. Why not high tech weaponry and all that? I'm not that big into science fiction. Would rather watch Lord of the Rings™ than Star Wars™. That's just me. Not all the characters use magic by the way. As someone noticed and posted, 'evil cowboy' which is right on the nail. One of the bosses is a gunslinger who, of course, uses guns. He also cannot fly, but I will talk about this in Q5. Another one of the bosses is a bard, who fights with music. Now before you go, oh rip off of Prismriver sisters... no. No, more like player class 'Bard' in the Player's Handbook. Finally, the main antagonist, the dragon. Its main attack would be its breath weapon, also claws and bites.

>
beej

(Q3) Enemy Attacks: Not all attacks are patterns and single bullets going all over the place. Area effect attacks are among the most common, but there are direct projectiles and other things. An example I can give is with the dragon charging forward trying to chomp a character, and swiping its claws or tail. The concept picture was made for people to understand that this is a shooter, and not to be taken as this is literally what it looks like. I guarantee you that none of these 8 games will look exactly like their concept arts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905839
>(Q4) Life and Shots: Actually, the idea was indeed to have a hit point bar, and cast bar. So you are right about this. Damage would be dealt differently depending on what hits you. For instance an area effect attack would do less damage than an attack meant specifically for you. I had thought of having two cast bars, one for the advanced spell, and one for the 'bomb' spell. Called bomb because in this genre that is what the 'clear the screen' attack is typically called. I had just not thought of anything more extravagant to call it. The advanced cast bar would recharge on its own after being used, regulated by time. The 'bomb' cast bar would charge by several means, for example, killing enemies, or fizzling enemy spells. Bomb bar would also take a bit longer to refill as it is a more powerful attack. I will also say this here, fizzle is nothing like graze as someone posted, and essence is not the extra points stuff either. I had in mind of essence being like cash to use for upgrades, but I never worked either of these aspects out completely. More than one shot button would be used. Originally I thought, one button for the left attack, another for the right, one more for the advanced attack, and of course another for the bomb. This would make you press 3 buttons at the same time to fire shots. I thought this may be to difficult, so I decided to bind both the left and right attacks to one button. Which you hold down for the obligatory spam shot. You cannot hold down the advance attack button beecause of the recharge bar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905839
>>3905846
I say just leave the man to his inanity and get back to playing PCB.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905857
>(Q5) Flight: Originally I figured, these guys use magic, and flight is a basic spell, so why not. Although, this was a dilemma in creating cannon fodder enemies, because I was always thinking of ground types instead of sky types, and would have to scratch them off. I couldn't really think of any other way to deliver the gameplay. I really don't like dual stick shooters so I did not want to go that route. Reading your question has brought to my mind an old NES® game called King's Knight™. I wish I would have remembered this game before, because I really like your suggestions here, and I think I would change the flight aspect of everything to have the characters running on the ground. Also, at their own pace instead of being forced forward the entire time. I agree with you that this change should be made.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905865
>Q5

Do you really have to justify flight? Really?

>Prismriver sisters

Obviously this guy has some familiarity with touhou, and jut won't admit much to it. If you're mad at trolls, you don't go research the thing in depth. If anything this makes him less credible.

>Twinkle Star Sprites

You rip-off a pretty unique vs. mode, and don't even mention it as an inspiration, while using patterns from TH9? This is probably just deflecting to try to justify it to Touhou fans.

He also still attributes stuff to shooters of the 80's and 90's. I never remembered tiny hitbox bosses with patterns like that plying them in arcades. His stuff seems closer to 90's and beyond Japanese Doujin stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905846
>Lord of the Rings™ than Star Wars™

Why the hell does this guy have to add ™ after everything?

In either case let's keep SKIES ABLAZE away from this thread. I'd still like to hear some more input about Touhou hard mode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905931
What about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905951
See >>3905494

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905931
No, you really have to be able to beat your second to hardest mode. Your insane mode can be one above that, and just be insane. But if you can only beat 2/4 modes, you run the risk of a large difficulty gap (that isn't from hard to insane) and difficulties being unplayable, or nearly so.

[Anonymous No.]

I usually beat the game on Normal just to unlock extra, beat Extra and then just go straight to working on Lunatic.

ZUN could just cut out the current incarnation of "Hard mode" and rename Lunatic to Hard, but I guess that would be a break from tradition/aesthetics which is what the Touhou series is basically built on.

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

>>3905931
DO NOT STEAL

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905964
Eh, I say it would be to large a gap, jumping from a normal "hard" mode to lunatic mode. If someone actually followed the sequence easy/normal>hard>lunatic it'd be a steep learning curve. Not impossible by any means, just REALLY hard by comparison, which may be a good thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>Hey guys, how many of you have played Touhou on Hard mode? Do you use it as a phase when training yourself for Lunatic or do you jump straight from like, Normal to Lunatic?

Lunatic is lunatic. You play the difficulty best suited to you. You can train your reflexes and hand-eye coordination on easier difficulties, but the amount of directly transferable experience is next to nothing. There is not much point in "training" on lower experiences. You will need better reflexes for the more difficult mode, and often use a different strategy due to added bullets.

Difficulties are just to make the game enjoyable to a wide-range of people, not just people starting shmups, and not just super hardcore players.

>I'm interested because I'm making a danmaku game of my own and have been thinking about making the easy mode a tad easier than easy on IN, normal equivalent to IN's easy, hard equivalent to IN's normal and then just have Lunatic as Lunatic.

Its probably not as easy as you think. Even if you work out patterns, you have to make sure its payable. You should probably practice on a pre-made engine rather than doing it from scratch, and taking notes from example patterns.

>As I'm not really all that great player myself (I haven't even beaten IN on Normal) I need some other people's input for this.

Like the other anon said, if you can't beat a difficulty, you're going to have a harder time designing that difficulty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905931
Proof he genuinely does not like either of them

Star Wars is a registered trademark.

Anyone who actually read the books would realize that its a book title, and you don't say trademark after a book title, even if it is a trademark.

[Anonymous No.]

You don't need a lunatic mode. Lunatic mode is when you're too good for hard, and want something even harder.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3906014
>Its probably not as easy as you think.
Oh, I know it's not easy. I've tried in the past and failed. But I have quite many years of experience working with games and my skills today are on a level high enough to create a proper danmaku game. I haven't actually worked out any patterns yet, but I've planned from where I take inspiration from and how the patterns will "feel" like. I don't know if that made sense to you, but I believe the approach I'm taking will work out quite well.

>Even if you work out patterns, you have to make sure its payable.
That's what I intend to have infinite debug bullet time for. After I've tested all the patterns are technically possible to beat without dying, I can throw them to better people for testing.

>You should probably practice on a pre-made engine rather than doing it from scratch
I already have quite a solid code running as a base, so coding the patterns and game itself will be easy. Designing the patterns will be the harder part, not the technical side of things.

>and taking notes from example patterns.
That's what I've been doing with Touhou games a lot recently. I've also done quite a lot of indepth analysis about how the games and the visuals are constructed in Touhou and I'm using this knowledge as help for designing my own game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3906084
Hi fat Doritos guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3906112
As far as I know the fat Doritos guy couldn't actually program his way out of a wet paper bag while I've fiddled and worked with actual game development for quite many years. Most of the time I work with a friend of mine, in a duo where we both design the games, he does the graphics and I do the technical side of things. I'm working on this project alone, though, since I'm getting audiovisual resources from the competition this is coming for.

[Anonymous No.]

umm, I have actually never played touhou on anything less than Lunatic.
I got the games cause I wanted something like Lunatic, if I wasn't going to play Lunatic then I wouldn't play touhou, I would rather play other games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3906170
>implying lunatic mode is hard

[Anonymous No.]

>>3906170
Good for you. No one gives a fuck

[Anonymous No.]

>>3906222
>implying you're good enough to beat Lunatic and be elitist about it

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905491
stop spamming ur shitty board on ａ ｎ o ｎ t ａ ｌ ｋ . com ok thanks and a hav a good day

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905493
stop spamming ur shitty board on ａ ｎ o ｎ t ａ ｌ ｋ . com ok thanks and a hav a good day

[Anonymous No.]

Moderation? In my /jp/? Nice.

[Anonymous No.]

Bump

[Anonymous No.]

I for one tend to play them on Hard mode. I can't beat it without continues but normal mode just seems boring and Lunatic... well I just said I can't beat Hard mode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3905494
From someone who can 1cc all the hards and has just started on lunatics, the jump from hard -> lunatic on some of the games seems more drastic than easy -> normal in difficulty jump.

I'll also like to say, fuck PoDD lunatic fucking chiyuri.

[Suigin !YUsuiginy. No.]

>>3908133
Yumemi is rape

[Anonymous No.]

>>3908141
Ill take yumemi over chiyuri, with yumemi I know where I fucked up with chiyuri its like "man I just 3/4ths of the screen cockblocked by lasers what the fuck man"

[Anonymous No.]

IN hard mode is enjoyable. Lunatic mode takes effort, so it isn't as fun.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

Don't make an STG too easy.
If you want to make a shooting game accessible to "bad" players, you can add a tutorial and training mode as well as challenges (short mini games such as "survive for 20 seconds","collect 10 ***","reach *** score", etc. Those are good, because the player can try again and again without having to play all the way through the game to that part again (no frustration)).

Generally, you don't want a player to bomb all shit, throw in some coins (=use a continue), bomb the rest, beat the game and never touch it again. You may want to add different goals (= goal in the first playthrough is obviously to beat the bosses and survive) for other playthroughs, include unlockable features or anything else which brings diversity in the game.

summary: your game isn't supposed to make players who are "not so great" clear an easy game, it's to train them, so they can beat hard games.


To answer the question: Hard/Lunatic