/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

What's the best way to remember kanji/reading/writing?

What did you do, /jp/?

[Anonymous No.]

Found a Japanese girl, ate her brain and took over her body. I'm now masquerading as her since I gained knowledge of her entire life and can put up a convincing act as her.

[Anonymous No.]

You don't need to learn the kanji readings separately. As for writing, use a method similar to Heisig's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembering_the_Kanji ).

I used Remembering the Kanji in combination with Spaced Repetition Software to learn the meaning and writing of the characters. Then I learned the readings of the characters *in context*, in real Japanese sentences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855702

>RTK

lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855712
What's wrong with RTK? I can agree that his method isn't as polished as it could be, but the idea is right. Drilling them kanji is just no-no, and pictograms have their limit. To be fair, though, a SRS (Anki, Mnemosyne etc.) used properly is far better than just RTK, but doing it well right from the start may be very difficult (so difficult that it took me one and a half years to realize how to properly do it using a SRS and without any stories).

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855702
>You don't need to learn the kanji readings separately

Yes you do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855735
It doesn't make any sense to do so. You won't know which reading to use, and when, and when to use ten-ten. Even if you do, you might not pick up the differences in meaning of the different readings (e.g. 正体（しょうたい） vs 正式（せいしき）). It's much better to learn what the readings are in specific words, or better: in words, and in context.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855850

You do both. Trying to learn completely through context is inefficient.

You wouldn't try to learn, or teach anyone English without learning the readings of the alphabet, would you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855876
>Comparing English and Japanese as if they work the same.

[Anonymous No.]

Lots of trolls in this thread. Don't mind me, then. I'm just passing through.

I've been using RTK for the last two months and can write about 1500 kanji with almost perfect accuracy, if given the meaning; and can recognize the meanings of any of those ~1500 just by looking at them. In another month, I should be through the rest of the general use kanji.

True, I can only read about 200-300, but it's 100x easier to learn the reading to a kanji for which you have a set meaning in your head than it is to learn how to scribble some random jumble of lines, memorize 2-3 pronunciations and also remember what it means. I'm only focusing on RTK right now, but I find that when I do learn the reading of some kanji, even by accident of reading something on the internet w/Rikaichan or something, it's incredibly easy to remember the reading, and the vocabulary word.

Well, that's all I've got to say. I'm not expert, and it's frustrating to be able to write so many kanji but read so few, but I bet I know more kanji than some of the fags here regurgitating the typical "derp RTK lololololol" responses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855905 again
>I'm not expert
facepalm

[Anonymous No.]

I used Heisig and then learned readings in context, but if it was available back then I'd have used Kanji Dicks instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855911
>implying that Kanji Dicks is available now

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855876
English is rather different because it uses a (vaguely) phonetic writing system, so it's hard to compare. Though, I wouldn't want to learn English by learning every single way of pronouncing each letter separately.
Besides, memorizing them separately just makes the task seem so much larger.
Why is learning through context inefficient? I'm not saying that you shouldn't use dictionaries, in fact, I highly recommend using dictionaries, but the readings of the kanji should be learned on a word-to-word basis (like the pronunciations of English words), whether you do this in context or not.

I would, in fact, go as far as to say the kanji themselves are better learned in context. I often notice I get much better understanding of the meanings of many kanji only when I get to see them used, in context.

[Anonymous No.]

Learning readings in context:
-you have to know the kanji beforehand--how to write them and what they mean (this is where RTK comes in)
-you can learn a vocabulary word and use what you know to remember 1. a new vocabulary word, 2. what each root of the word means, and 3. by proxy of knowing 1 & 2 above, you learn readings for all kanji in the word.
-for the vocabulary you already know, you can skip step 1 from above.
-often don't need much review once learned

Learning the readings in isolation:
-in theory faster, but you don't remember them as efficiently, need lots of review
-can utilize kanji "families," groups of kanji that share a reading from a common radical
-if you keep flashcards, it's easy to organize and review what you know (but you can do this when learning from context too)

Ultimately you've got to do both, but if you've ever learned a reading from context, you'd know that, although it doesn't simplify the process in terms that are readily apparent, it does make the reading a lot easier to remember.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3855712

Fascinating. You really have a lot to contribute to the thread, don't you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856051

There is a reason why language experts DONT recommend using Heisig and believe it's a waste of time.

At most, it gives you the illusion that you've learned when you really haven't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856084

Tell me more about this "reason" and these so-called "language experts."

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856084

You sound like somebody who gave RTK a try anYd then gave up because you're just some pathetic weeaboo after all and are not up to hard tasks unless they involve flashy animation or porn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856084
>>3855735
>>3855712

Fags.

[Norwayfag !hqIdDbrOEk No.]

>>3855905
Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call troll on this one... 1500 kanji in two months? What did you do, did you use >>3855688's method?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856584
I just started the RTK deck with anki about a month ago, and can get 90% of 600 kanji correct. I do not know the readings, however. It hasnt been difficult at all.

[Anonymous No.]

I went through kanjidicks the fast way (ignore the 1 or 2 star usefulness ones) using Anki, then started reading untranslated manga.

[Anonymous No.]

Can some tell me what this anki and kanjidicks is? Im sorry about being a newfag but I have been learning straight from a dictionary and its annoying. ありがとございます

[Anonymous No.]

I use something similar to Heisig: divide into compounds, put a meaning on each compound, learn a mnemonic based of the compounds for the whole character. Except that, since I already knew some japanese when I started, I tend to use the real meaning or the kun reading if there is one.

Also flashcards and spaced repetition. I use flashcarddb, but any other software or website will do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856630
Being a newfag isn't really related to being google-disabled you know.

http://www.hellodamage.com/kanjidicks/main.htm
http://ichi2.net/anki/

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856084
The reason is so they can sell more useless classes. If people actually learned Japanese they'd be out of a job.

[Anonymous No.]

Nothing but hard graft and writing the kanji and their readings and meanings out over and over again is going to help you learn them.
But pretty soon you'll get a good enough grasp of Japanese to read simple language. Even just learning the 500 or so grades 1-3 kanji makes a real difference.

[Anonymous No.]

Where can you find lists of kanji by grade level?

[Anonymous No.]

heisig is the best
don't listen to the haters

[Anonymous No.]

RTK is cool, but kanjidicks improves on that greatly, with better definitions (lol decameron), multiple definitions for kanjis that need them (the JERKS) and pronunciations.

If you don't mind how unprofessional (hurr durr cockass fuckfarts) it is, I'd definitely recommend it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856697
www.google.com

[Anonymous No.]

>>3856584
1500 kanji in two months is not impossible. I know Heisig himself learned the 2000 in the book in just 1 month. When I did RTK, would do up to 20-30 kanji a day, sometimes as many as 50 per day. Although, I spent about 6 months just learning the first 100 in the book, so you couldn't say that I got through the book at the pace "30 kanji per day" suggests. Still, I got through the last 1800 kanji in about 3 months, though.

>>3856712
Kanji Dicks is fucking cool in that he's got mnemonics to help you remember the readings, but I could never get far with it for two reasons. Since it's not a published book, I have to read it off my computer, which is a pain in the ass (I'm easily distracted on my computer and never get much done if I have to use it). Two, I simply don't think in terms of 'your anal virginity', JEWS, etc. Making my own mnemonics, what Heisig suggests, isn't really that hard, and Heisig's keywords tend to have a good balance of intuition and significance.