/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

ITT: We discuss philosophy while posting Touhou images.

We cannot exists in a peaceful world, or else it is imperfect.

[Anonymous No.]

Does the world have to be perfect?
Those are two very unrelated statements, btw.

[Anonymous No.]

If the world were perfect and everyone content, what would be next?

[Anonymous No.]

who is to say the world isn't perfect as it is?

[Anonymous No.]

God is perfect.
Man is flawed.
We live in a flawed world.
God does not exist in our world.

[Anonymous No.]

That's pretty vague, but I've never taking a philosophy course so I don't know if that's the point.
I'd need your definition of peaceful and perfect for this to have any meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846084
Which is to say, you won't be providing an absolute definition of perfect because everyone's would be different.

[Anonymous No.]

Op's comment makes no sense at all. How does peaceful suggest imperfection? And how does imperfection suggest that we can't live? I think that op purposely chose shitty non-philosophy to get a thread with a bunch of angry posts.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846078
nothing, stagnance, a fate just like death when you think about it, even if it were an afterlife.
as an unchanging absolute fate of whats usually considered a perfect world, some of us claim to love chaos but in truth we might need it in order to not only remain sane but also to define any sense of self.

...or maybe its because conciously or unconciously we realised that an absolute unchanging existence is just boring as hell, unoriginal and tasteless. this state of mind is sometimes referred to as ADD

[Anonymous No.]

Seems like OP is too impressed by the awesomeness of Shikieiki's POfV dialogues.

[五角场！？ No.]

>>3846069
define we
define peace
define world
define perfection

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846176
indeed, the universe is a compilation of definitions and expressions.
if the universe is in no way defined it does not exist and thus an unexpressed concept of perfect universe is null and void.
give us something to argue and debate about, otherwise its not philosophy capable of discovering or helping understand anything.

[Anonymous No.]

I think humans are such a stupid creature.

[Anonymous No.]

Jacquizz Rogers > James Rogers

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846112
Cool story bro.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846207
just means we can continue to learn more things and have more room to grow, otherwise nothing can change and continue to express infinite possibilities. (in this case possibilities becoming greater in number as more variables become present from change, thus multiplying off of itself eternally)

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846069
>C:\Projects\Test\Headers\Function.h In function `void func()':
>27 `imperfect' undeclared (first use this function)
>(Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.)
> C:\Projects\Test\Makefile.win [Build Error] [Philosophy .o] Error 1

[Anonymous No.]

Humans are incapable of full unity, but are still social animals. Thus unity is based on a mutual interest or a mutual enemy. The only way world peace is possible is if something non-human because a threat to humanity. But as soon as that threat is removed, humanity will split and divide again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846069
Philosophy is questioning things, not being an angsty faggot high school kid. Enjoy not learning the real meaning of philosophy, ever.

[Anonymous No.]

Don't get mad, get even.

[Anonymous No.]

If you embark on a journey of revenge, first dig two graves.

[Anonymous No.]

Are cryogenically frozen heads dead or alive?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846357
Don't get mad. Start a feud that spans between generations with families killing each other off over a dispute that at one point was easy and simple, but now is senseless and wrought with the stench of blood?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846405
Define 'dead'.

If you mean clinical. Then the severed frozen head is quite dead.

>>3846069
Perfection is a comparative term. What are you comparing it to?

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846405
dead, as the water inside expands from freezing it causes cell walls to burst turning it into mush when it thaws.
also even if you got around that, if theres no synapsis there isnt any thought and therefore still be dead. (or maybe at least until those brain cells would start firin up again.)

[Anonymous No.]

If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846431
An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

[Anonymous No.]

War does not determine who is right - only who is left

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846440
Forgot mah touhou image.

>>3846083

Man = Man
World = World
Man =/= World
The world exists independent of us. Unless of course you're a Rationalist in which this world exists because we perceive it to.

A tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[Anonymous No.]

Man is too concerned with how the world works that he cannot see how beautiful it is despite being imperfect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846453
That is why you take a head for an eye. Excessive violence CAN solve problems.

[Anonymous No.]

Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846449
What of his relatives?
What of those who are close to that man?
They may not all be so easy to predict.
They may not all be so easy to control.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846493
But hey at least you're enlightened, right? ;_;

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846473
our universe, its a pretty cool existence. its indifferent and does as it pleases regardless of what others try to say or do.
i mean shit in the end the universe really is the most omnipotent and omnescent thing we can prove exists (or at least in reference to omnescence and our proving its existence its just the universe acting and knowing through us and everything else.)
i mean seriously, its the universe we only think we know whats going on with it really, and it could bend the rules when it where it pleased if it did give a damn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846490
There are some remedies worse than the disease.

[Anonymous No.]

If a butt itches scratch it. It's better than browsing /bun/.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846478
what if i find beuty in its imperfections and the the constant strive to understand it?
and what if by chance in my quest to understand its function and imperfections found it ever more beautiful?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846500
Kill em all, let God sort em' out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846405
I don't think these heads are alive or dead
My best guess is that they're just magically animated matter, like a golem
Also, I thought they were exterminated

[Anonymous No.]

For someone who quotes the ancients a lot, Tenshi sure does love beating the shit out of death and living unnaturally. She should get more in touch with nature.

[Anonymous No.]

Alice came to a fork in the road. "Which road do I take?" she asked.
"Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat.
"I don't know," Alice answered.
"Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846507
what may kill may cure what may cure may kill.
also the disease is also used to immunize against same said disease.
paradox or irony, i cant decide myself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846518
Those heads are Yukkuri D:
http://yukkuri.wikia.com/wiki/Yukkuri_Wiki
It's hard to take it easy here with everyone resorting to violence so easy.

[Anonymous No.]

If you're going to tickle, use a feather not a whip.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846528
Please cure me, Eirin.

[Anonymous No.]

If you chase two rabbits, you will not catch either one.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846543
pains kind of an abstract, and highly relative since S&M happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846528
Dear asshats, poetry != philosophy.

[Anonymous No.]

Lot of people who don't know what philosophy is itt.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846549
not unless you planned ahead, set traps and got freind's to aid you in your quest.
freinds is importants.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

Memento mori.

[Anonymous No.]

If it would be proven that it would be impossible to be happy if one were to be all-knowing and that the more knowledge you have the less happy you can be, how much would you wan't to know?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846516
I say this because, when I was young and stupid I found this world more beautiful than when I began to understand things as I got older. I began to understand this place was darker than first thought.
When you fully understand something, what is left to enjoy if there is no mystery to it? I suppose this is a biased answer, but it's what I think.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846566
being all knowing would leave me unhappy, thats why i dont ever want to stop discovering new things, so in that since id want to always know more but never everything.... if that makes any sense to you

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846566
There's a problem.
What if you knew enough that you knew how to be happy without causing any negative problems toward yourself or losing any knowledge?

[Anonymous No.]

Some people walk in the rain, others just get wet.

[Anonymous No.]

Catch a man a fish, and you can sell it to him. Teach a man to fish, and you ruin a wonderful business opportunity.

[Anonymous No.]

Is it guaranteed that a long-lived immortal will eventually be bored? If not, what sort of activities are still amusing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846592
Getting drunk as hell and vomitting on your dead relatives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846581
Then you wouldn't need to know anything at all.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846570
okay, youve recognised problems in the world, now aim to fix them.
it doesnt matter of picking fights you can win, its fights picking you feel must be fought.
just looking at the world as dark miserable ignorance is bliss crap bla bla bla, use the power of knowledge to make it better if not for yourself than those you love, if you love noone then do it for one would like to love.
also if you believe that youve figured everything out your farther from knowing anything at all then at any other point due to your now inability to look at possible alternatives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846581
There is no problem, if it were to be proven that it would be impossible to be happy while being all-knowing then no matter how much knowledge one would have, it would still be impossible.

[Anonymous No.]

He who controls the past commands the future. He who commands the future conquers the past.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846632
That seems to be contradicting. I assume that's intended?

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

thats it, i declare a new order!!!
lets investigate and discover all kinds of wierd and mysterious things!
also non-toho pic, i need to mix it up or ill lose my mind.
or try to start a new thread..... not like the latter would work though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846566
If you were omniscient you would be stuffed with an endless collection of references to things that don't matter. To know everything means you would need to know you know everything and know you know you know everything and so on and so forth. Ignoring the fact something like that is highly irrational, why would anyone want it in the first place?

[Anonymous No.]

ITT MW2 death quotes

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846647
Hahaha good job on that pic bro

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846654
maybe this whole time gods been doing it for the lulz, as since there would never be enough variation in the absolute state, doing it for the lulz just seemed like the only valid reason that would make it work.
and also the only reason one would need to do anything.

[Anonymous No.]

Apparently "philosophy thread" means "copypasta some proverbs thread." That's deep man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846684
/r/'ing not thumbnail version

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846748
delivered.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846713

Speaks volumes about the /jp/ userbase, does it not?

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846783
or theres only like, 2-4 people posting ITT

[Anonymous No.]

This thread is embarrassing. Way to flunk philosophy /jp/.

If philosophy threads are going to be this bad, I'd prefer it if they stayed off of /jp/.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>Yuuka
>Chaotic Evil

That's going to hurt some butts. In before youkai moe~

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846802
Flunk? You're implying we took a philosophy class, oh great major.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846802
You can flunk Philosophy?

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846842
mind=blown

[Anonymous No.]

If you don't study the "who explored which concepts."

Philosophy isn't easy, and it's a rather interesting subject if you get the right professor. I wouldn't major in it though.

[Anonymous No.]

The mind proves your existence but your body proves nothing.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846893
i counter your likely copy pasta with same shit, only nieztche. (considering the concepts of thought are usually considered as metaphysical in this case)
"your concepts of the meta physical universe within what is plainly a physical existence is as useful to any of us as is the composition of water to a drowning sailor."

[Anonymous No.]

Lets make this interesting:

If your best friend is a lazy neet who sits around watching anime and trolling on imageboards all day, is it moral to break his PC in order to force him out of such a life?

Hard mode: Can't use Kantian or Utilitarian reasoning.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846944
not moral thats for sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846944
I really really don't like this sudden change of direction

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846961
Please show your work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846944

No; while your "friend" is a dick, that doesn't give you any right to act in a similar fashion, especially since you've committed a far worse crime than internet trolling by vandalizing their computer.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3846980
its just really extreme as i see it.
especially since almost all of my favorite things to do as well as things i need to do only made more accesable, if someone smashed my computer id just rage... then get a new.
it doesnt change the my being a NEET, its just a really excessive asshole means.
but i will admit very, very direct.

[Anonymous No.]

Lets try another.

How do we measure the worth of a person's life? -Is everyone the same, or do people's achievements make them worth more than others? If you saved the life of the president at the expense of your own, is it because its worth more than your own? How about an artist or actor? A hobo on the street?
-Is it based on potential? If so are those born into a better life worth more because they have a higher potential to succeed and be worth more later? If a baby born to a 19 year old girl would reduce her potential to succeed and thus its own because she will thus never be able to go to college, is it moral to have an abortion so the girl can be ready for a child at 26 where she can birth it into a better environment with higher potential to succeed? If you don't have the abortion, are you destroying the potential for every child who could have been born later?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846987
But if you saw an alcoholic with a bottle of booze, you would feel obligated to take away or destroy the cause of the conflict right?

How is a neet with a PC any different?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847005
Aye see there's the rub. Removing the indulgence does not cure the problem, it just treats the symptom rather than the problem.

[Necrobrotent No.]

Y'all done lost me.

hakuna matata

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847018
Hell no I wouldn't. What do you have against alcoholics?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847013
People's ability to affect others' lives give them greater worth. Potential matters, but only if it's strong potential such as a straight-A med student or something.

[Anonymous No.]

If we do not think, are we really capable of feeling?

Is it possible for a human being to achieve tanasinn?

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847013
well 'abortion' for one doesnt mean delayed birth your just eliminating possibility.
also as far as potential based upon conditions you were born into is relative.
it doesnt matter if your born in the best conditions the decider of worth at least in the concept of accomplishments is based upon the persons will.
as a result someone who is born in terrible conditions whos seen the the worse side of life early on may have managed to find greater personal truth that allowed them to get through those significantly more adverse conditions.
basically the willingness to continue on despite impossible odds carries on in the individuals behavior and can result in them having far greater value to those around them. (as a pillar of support, or someone who unintentionally leads by strength of will and action)
so i guess in my own mind someone with courage to face adversity would have far more value than some emo shit who crys and makes a fuss over the tiniest slight towards them, bitching cus everything isnt as easy as they thought and things werent spoon fed to them.
s i feel someone with courage is far more valuable than someone who cant face reality as a result of being sheltered and unprepared.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847075
oh shit my brain overclocked that one out. :L

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847075
So your view is that character and determination is the deciding factor in a persons worth? Interesting. But does Nature vs Nurture play into that? You used the example that a poor beginning life allows the person to be strengthened by the experience and become worth more (local socially anyways with the 'pillar of strength' idea.)

But what about all the people in the same environment who don't develop into that person, but rather stay ignorant, poor, and socially neutral? If they are the "lesser" of people, then the factor for such determination must be nature (genes) because nurture (environment) was not the catalyst or else all people would have risen themselves. And if that's the case, such a character disposition would appear in any life despite environment.

Also how do you measure determination and character? Is it desire for something more, or the strength to just keep living despite things being bad. If the former, it can only be observed by social mobility and thus skewed to be observed in the severely poor. If the later, isn't that the self preservation instinct in all humans?

[Anonymous No.]

Maybe if you put everyone in the world through an impossible task, the survivors/successes would be the most "desire" of people for having that attribute. Sorts out the weak.

Does that mean that a seemingly "cruel" or "mean" act on the world is actually good, because it allows the more "desired" people to shine and be revered?

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847170
the result of a person is not just both nature and nurture (even in the womb based upon that enclosed environment any chemicals and so forth can alter the child when born) but its also the interplay between the two, how they influence each other.
i guess the way i summerize it in my mind is that nature=hardware and nurture= software... if that computer-esque description makes any sense.
as for the 2nd chunk, i guess i should say that you cant just want something more because if you do fail (like earlyer i stated its not about picking fights you can win but fights you feel must be fought) if your not willing to continue on despite things are bad then you still dont make it as far as you could have.
i also hate it when people sell themselves short, if you are a 'lesser' person standing against that fate and trying to improve would disprove that you were in any way lesser.
honestly im not concerned with society much at all, i dont let someone else decide who and what i am and how i behave, sometimes it may influence it though.
also in my opinion, society being a product of the mind which does not exist in a tangable form but instead is a series of undrawn lines based on what people decide upon can only have as much meaning and power over you as you allow it to and as such isnt enough of a deciding factor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846918

I was going in a Descarte method but I can see where Nietzche would go with that too.

Morality is anti-nature.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847226
the problem with my own logic would be that it can lead to a "superman' concept despite the fact that in my mind the only way wed be able to continue would be throught a large sum of variety and diversity.
basically more concepts to allow interplay between to create more possibilities.
force of will, courage, and desire are for the most art a base structure for the rest.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847252
morality can throw me for a loop, sometimes i cant live with what others may consider moral or immoral but id never wanna be caught dying without it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847230

>>if that computer-esque description makes any sense.
Makes perfect sense, actually. My view is that nature gives a base tendency towards something, and nurture amplifies it. Basically nurture is likely to draw out the nature's aspect.

>>determination
What if a person believes in something full heartedly, despite it being considered wrong by most people? I'm surprised I'm playing this card, but Hitler was determined and faced impossible odds. He motivated a country which had basically gone bankrupt and miserable into striving for glory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847266

Morality is anti-nature in the fact that it is simply not natural. We are all taught what morals are and in that fact morals only harm us.

We extend our sympathies to those that are lower then us and in return their negative feelings bring us down to their level and degrade us.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847294
Morals are an extension of nature. They are nature's way of protecting our own kind instead of our selves, thus increasing our race's chance of existence.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847293
this i guess i should say goes into the morality bit.
and between society and morality theres nothing BUT gray area.
also what would happen is basically what did happen, his ideals conflicted with those of others.
when that conflict occurs the two opposing forces in a sense cancel each other out as the conflict continues and ultimatly the one whose function and potency is greater wins.
i didnt state any ground work on the 'function' part of the last sentence but what i mean by that is what variables are present within that view (morality, individuals, and of course logic- the means we use to reach a conclusion by conflict/resolution) and how both it and its variables effect each other and the resulting possibilities born of the interplay of those definitions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847294
Well that's grossly oversimplified, but I'll bite.

Without such a moral system, wouldn't it be chaos? If people didn't pity others, it would be perfectly ok to kill and steal whatever we wanted because it betters our own chance for physical survival. Seems rather selfish. Besides, there is always a person above you so you can't not empathize with those below yet demand compassion from those above.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847345
>>two opposing forces in a sense cancel each other out as the conflict continues and ultimatly the one whose function and potency is greater wins.
I'm confused on how to interpret this. You said that the forces canceled with other out, so then no morals or social implications can be used to study WW2? Also the ending kinda sounded like "might makes right."

With the second bit...I tried but you really lost me. Could you restate it more concisely?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847018 But if you saw an alcoholic with a bottle of booze, you would feel obligated to take away or destroy the cause of the conflict right?

No I wouldn't, as drinking isn't a crime. Now if they started attacking someone or causing a public disturbance (running into traffic, screaming obscenities without provocation, commit theft, etc) I would intervene.

Also, your comparison between the drunk and NEET is a bit misleading. NEETs can troll people online, which isn't a crime. Trolling people in real life can be a crime, depending on how serious the effects of their trolling are (for example: hurting sales of a business by staging a protest outside of the business). With NEETs however, until they perform some sort of cyber crime, then there is no valid reason for myself to intervene unless I own or run the website that is being trolled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847351

Speaking in terms of Anti-Nature Morality and Pro Life Morality.

Anti-Nature is something that is taught to you as in repressing basic instincts such as love..etc.. I was taught that it is the moral thing to do to suppress these things.

The natural thing to do is to ignore that person but because my morals deem it correct to help this individual I will have to lower myself to their level.

Pro-Life morality is the morality in which advocates natural life and the enhancement of one's own life, separate from everyone else.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847393
2 views are in oppostion of each other and conflict.
this prompts conflict resolution, the means of how one solves there problems and interacts with the situation.
the willingness to support there views in a sense continues to drive the views forward and the views remain present.
so its a combination of willpower and how one deals with problems that make it more potent.

back to where the views are conflicting, its not necessarily fighting, but whatever way the situation is resolving.
when its all played out we have resolution, the end result. if its a fight like WW2 then its that concept of the ultimately more potent and effective view that remains.
if its something like a social dispute then its the view which proves to be most true.

in my mind the mechanics remain the same but whats involved changes.
sorry if my words got kinda jumbled earlier, both tired and excited. :L

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847430
But how does empathizing lower a person? It allows you to see from their view, but you can still be objective about it. If a person has cancer you can feel sorry for him, but in the end you can walk away and not have cancer yourself.

Antinaturalism is basically "I want instant gratification, but I'm taught not to seek it because it will hinder other people or myself later." Its also what separates us from animals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847481
Ok so being GAR is the most important part of a person, but when two GAR people battle the victor is thus most GAR because his victory means he was most suited for the fight?

[Anonymous No.]

Gee, sure is autistic in here.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847529
yep, have an internet.
you got me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847556
Ah, I wasn't really trying to "get you" I was just trying to understand what you were saying.

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847586
get me and understand what im saying mean the same thing dont they?
coulda sworn cus thats what i meant by it.
so i got caught in the act, but id like to stay outside the pokeball if possible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3847606
No can do. Get back in your ball!

[Lord_Pizza !MARISA0HjQ No.]

>>3847621
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
UUUUUUU

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Life is pointless. So why should the afterlife be any different?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3846944
Depends on the reasoning.
As an egoist, if you want to sell him a new computer, craftily finding a way for it to be fried is a good plan.
For someone against the advancement of technology, this is a great idea. It would keep their mind from being further subjected to the whims of the evil computer.

>>3847013
Did this in philosophy. Came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be moral or immoral for the woman to abort the baby, it would just be a decision. Why? Because you're not taking a life. You're ending a symbiotic relationship. They are not to the point where they are self-sustaining yet. So, they happen to die.