/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[None !Emiya21qOA No.]

Why would the Magic Association leave such a large area of rich land in the hands of such an inept handler?

[Anonymous No.]

She used her body. The same way she gets everything else in life.

[Anonymous No.]

For plot reasons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823594
Fascinating.

[None !Emiya21qOA No.]

>>3823594
Well, she definitely could've still lived there while they handed over control to the Matous. Though that would've been counterintuitive for Zoken. Though, he could've made someone up as the new heir and used them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823575
Rin is actually among the top one hundred magi in the history of the association in the long run. She is also the successor of the 2nd Sorcery. Not only is she not inept, she's better than most of the population.

Shirou is in the top 10, within the constraints of his specialty.

Also, the Association doesn't give a damn about Japan. Most of them are even worse xenophobic racists than the Japanese themselves - they need someone to watch over their territory there, and the Tohsaka Family just happened to be it.

[None !Emiya21qOA No.]

So if she's in the top one hundred, with her fucking clown shoes jewels, what does that make everyone else? Aka people who don't need to bleed on rocks every night to command offensive powers?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823825
> with her fucking clown shoes jewels,
>Aka people who don't need to bleed on rocks every night to command offensive powers?
wat

[Anonymous No.]

She's just PAFEKTO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823825
You do realize that what Rin does with her jewels is completely beyond human ability, right? She can use conventional thaumaturgy without them, when she uses her jewels she's using the stored energy to cast beyond her means.

To put this into context for you - and this part is common sense, but it's still important - heroic spirits and humans are judged on entirely different levels. What is an "A-Class" attack for a human is merely a C-Class attack for a Heroic Spirit. In other words, even the best of humans is feeble for Heroic Spirits.

But with her gems, just on raw destructive power, Rin was able to produce an A-Rank (Heroic Spirit Scale) sufficient to kill Berserker. By using her gems, she can essentially amplify her magic to the point where it is comparable to the magic of a heroic spirit.

It's an "emergency" option, but this is coming from a 16-year-old(ish) Rin. It's still an extraordinary thing. On top of that, being the successor of the 2nd is HUGE. The 2nd was capable of killing a Type.

[None !Emiya21qOA No.]

>>3823830
People who have greater attack power per iteration compared to her individual jewels, or people who could outlast her limited supply of jewels through variable mana output.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823836
>The 2nd was capable of killing a Type
Brunestud here, Zelretch is a cheater.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3823575
The best part of this image is its complete lack of Sakura.

The woman, not the tree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823836
tl;dr
>even the best of humans is feeble for Heroic Spirits.

HEY, FUCK YOU.

SHIKI CAN KILL SERVANTS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823845
Zelretch here.
Brunestud is still fucking dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823853
Brunestud here.
At least I'm not a faggot.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3823848
Go back to sleep, Nanaya.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823847
Nobody wants to see that worthless whore.

[None !Emiya21qOA No.]

>>3823836
There are lots of dead Types. Many bitches, many whores, all not of this world. None that he successors would fully comprehend.

She got the knife and the multidimensional concept. As well as her magical rod.

But orphaned from 10, left to herself in all of that, she couldn't have regained all of the knowledge her family had acquired over the centuries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823848
In b4 shitstorm.

In all seriousness: Neither Ryougi Shiki nor Tohno Shiki have the raw physical ability to be able to match a Servant. Nasu himself has said that assuming the Heroic Spirit was painfully average and their Noble Phantasms were so as well, they could fight a defensive battle - maybe.

But that's it. They wouldn't have the opportunity to press the attack, and so they would not be able to utilize their eyes to begin with. Against a stronger Heroic Spirit, the answer is clear.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3823872
They wouldn't be able to defend themselves unless they pull off something mind-numbing like Shirou does.

Ciel could defend herself. Kouma could devastate an average servant. But they'd still lose against someone like Berserker, barring Caliburn-level plot devices.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823871
Perhaps. Nonetheless it is true that Rin is an extraordinary magus, and even a "limited" form of sorcery such as the Gem Sword and the Kaleidostick is remarkable, considering what a copied Gem Sword allowed her to do.

She might not compare directly to Zelretch, but no magus other than others with True Magic compare to Zelretch. Hell, the simple fact that he hasn't been designated for sealing is indicative of just how wrong he is relative to the rest of the Association.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823881
Shirou has the advantage of Noble Phantasms, so he doesn't rely solely on his own physical ability to strike back - that alone is a HUGE boon for him against Servants and Servant-level combatants.

As for Kouma, he's on equal footing with Servants physically - but does he have a "trump card" that would make something like Gae Bolg less threatening? I'm not aware of any such thing, but I only know a little about him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823825
Barthomeloi Lorelei

バルトメロイ・ローレライ

The boasted "Queen" (One of the Greatest Modern Magi) of London's Clock Tower, the central institute of the Association.

Assistant Director of the Clock Tower. Current Wizard Marshall commanding the Chelon Canticle Brigade. Element is wind.

In the past, destroyed two Ancestors and is also a vampire hunter lended to the Church.

An orthodox magus without any unique thaumaturgy, but because her own abilities are among the highest, she has produced brilliant results in all situations.

Simple is best. An archetypical and perfectionist type: as long as the base is strong, no special powers are needed.

While she herself is a brilliant magus, she takes with her 50 elite magi that she personally handpicked to annihilate her enemies. Sort of like a young emperor leading an orchestra.

While the members of her band are first-rate magi, even without them, it's said that she could co face to face with 27 level Apostles on her own.

As with the whole upbringing of Barthomeloi children, after becoming the head of the family, the given name is just a insignificant name stuck on. To all Barthomelois and Lorelei herself, the tone of "Barthomeloi" is what their names are.

Has an abnormal obsession with the White Wing Lord Ortenrosse and is part of a unit working in stopping the Aylesbury ritual that had been prepared by Ortenrosse for tens of years.

Why she didn't work at interfering before said Aylesbury event was because she wanted to lure the White Wing Lord and stop him during the ritual so as to see the miserable looks on the face of the despairing vampires.

[Anonymous No.]

It was said that Zeltretch could no longer kill Brunestud. He's too old and past his prime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823902
I love this woman. Completely conventional magus and able to compete with the 27. It's fucking awesome. She looks badass, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823872
SHIKI-KILLING-BERSERK.JPG

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823906
This is true, but it doesn't make it any less true that he killed him. All that being said, the 2nd is an incredibly dangerous weapon. I'm guessing the means by which he defeated him involved sorting through all of the possibilities of the battle and hand-picking the continuity that would apply to him.

Ergo, Crimson Moon fucked up as much as it was possible for him to fuck up, and Zelretch averted any botches on his own part.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823914
haha, her name is Bart

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823914
She will never have a vn. ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823847

The best part of this image is its complete lack of Sakura.

The tree, not the woman.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3823901
You don't need a finishing move when your fist is capable of decimating basically anything and you can probably stop Excalibur's blade by grabbing it with your hand.

Faster than a Nanaya when he needs to be, stronger than Ciel, and immune to most attacks. Takes an enormous strike straight to his jugular and just barely registers the feeling of pain. And that was when he wasn't even being serious.

[Anonymous No.]

Read Red Demon God and then compare Kouma's raw power, survivability, and destructive power to that of servants.

Berserker needs to swing his sword-axe at full power to break the earth asunder and throw up stones, but Kouma can crush a redwood with the strength of his hand alone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823936
Kouma isn't BEYOND Servants. He is on-par with an average Servant, meaning roughly Cuchulainn-esque stats. Saber is not an average Servant, nor is her Noble Phantasm- although as with Lancer, they would be able to fight on fairly even ground.

The problem is when you get into effects that "absolutely kill". Not even the True Ancestors can avoid something like Gae Bolg, although it certainly couldn't put them down permanently. (It could, however, kill a Dead Apostle or one of the 27 who relies on pure physical might rather than material WTFery like Nero.)

Excalibur by contrast is a ridiculously powerful Noble Phantasm. He might be able to fight against it like Kuzuki, but allowing it to strike him would be a mistake - and allowing its use would be instant death, the same as most anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823936
>>3823952
wait, so the kouma killed by shiki in len's dream is just an imagination right? so the real one is still floating around?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823952
Berserker, while DEAD ON HIS FEET, with an A-Rank in divinity, broke a NOBLE PHANTASM that specifically strengthened to absurd levels when restraining someone of high divinity.

Completely mundane redwoods? Fucking please. Berserker isn't even trying when he's shattering the ground around him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823964
Yes. In Len's dream, Kouma is just as strong as Shiki wants him to be, as he thinks he is.

Kouma in melty blood is an unspeakable badass, but even there Tatari admits that the original must be far stronger than the replication he was able to muster.

[Anonymous No.]

Mmm, powerlevels.

[None !Emiya21qOA No.]

>>3823958
Obviously letting an anti-fortress NP strike him would be idiotic.

However, HF4 Lancer's NP's were much more specific yet less lethal than #5's, but he still managed to direly hinder a certain someone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823980
As a heroic spirit, 4th Lancer is painfully average in every way. But, he is still a threat to high-powered heroic spirits because his fighting style is unconventional and his weapons have a dangerous passive effect. To the best of my knowledge Kouma doesn't have the same advantage, so much as raw physical ability.

That being said, he is decidedly less deadly than 5th Lancer against an entity that does not have sufficient luck to evade Gae Bolg - not even True Ancestors can evade it. My main question is whether Kouma could handle something like that or not - obviously, Excalibur will demolish just about anything on a direct hit.

To get to the core of the issue though... yeah, using or not using Excalibur makes a HUGE difference, and as we can see in Heaven's Feel even a mildly superhuman Shirou can take on Saber solo with the right dirty tricks, although in the circumstances in question it was a fatal move on his part.

FYI, I'm looking at Red Demon God now so I can get a better picture of this dude. I know he can fight with Servants, though - that's not something I doubt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824010
I believe that, while Kouma could withstand even being hit directly with excalibur beam, he could not survive Gae Bolg.

Kouma is a straight-forward brawler type of thing.
Extremely fast, extremely strong. Extremely resiliant.

He just has no tricks that can get him out of trouble against a Noble Phantasm, other than dodging it or just hunkering down and hoping he survives.

Obviously, neither of these are going to work against Gae Bolg.

[Anonymous No.]

I dunno, serious-face-sensei does pretty well against Seiba until fucking plothax.

Of course, she wasn't operating at full capacity, and he was buffed, but she was seriously in danger of having her head caved in by a straight melee human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824042
That's because snake style is hax. He'd be able to murder Bazett in a first encounter, but be hopelessly fucked if they fought again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824042
>serious-face-sensei

Who? Taiga?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823979

what manga is this

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824010
>slightly superhuman
>takes 9+1 lives off berserker

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823979
Isn't odin a shriveled old man?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824044
True, but you obviously aren't quite that powerful if someone with a weird style can romperstomp yer ass and barely break a sweat until your protagonist decides to jump in.

in summary, powerlevels are bullshit since everyone is only powerful enough to fulfill some plot-related duty.

If Nasu wanted to make Kouma or shiki beat the fuck outta Gilgamesh he'd make it happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824057
He only appears to travelers like that.
Otherwise he's the GOD OF MOTHERFUCKING DEATH.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824089
P.S: This was probably added just to make people have more respect for elderly strangers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824053
In terms of pure physical ability he was weaker than Grail-infected Kotomine. So yes, he is only mildly superhuman. His projection abilities make him pretty hax no matter what version of him it is, however.

>>3824042
Snake Style is difficult to adapt to. Kuzuki was also reinforced by Caster - the difference between normal Kuzuki and reinforced Kuzuki is such that he couldn't even annoy Archer on a direct hit normally. The reinforcement makes a HUGE difference.

Saber also has trouble with non-conventional fighting styles. It's part of why 4th Lancer had her in such a tight spot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824104
You've just made my point for me.

Everyone is conveniently as powerful as it takes to fill any given plot role.

Gilgamesh could/should have raped anyone and everyone in the war within the first day and danced a jig back to kotomine but he constantly manages to be a jobber the entire fucking novel.

[None !Emiya21qOA No.]

Pluto died.
Neptune cried.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824022
>I believe that, while Kouma could withstand even being hit directly with excalibur beam

Berserker would get his 12 lives wiped by one Excaliblast. Kouma would be a goner easily. So, take off your fanboy goggles. He'd get wiped easily if he gets hit by that blast.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824135
unless Nasu wanted him to live.

qed

[Anonymous No.]

ORT could withstand even being hit directly with an Excalibur beam.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824143
Man, if Nasu wants it, Kouma could die by slipping with a banana and getting raped by little green men in a hardcore display of BDSM, in which Kouma screams "No little green men! Show my ass some mercy!"

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824157
FUND IT

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824157
exactly, so fan-wankery is useless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824119
Nasuverse is pretty much built on rock-paper-scissors.

If you disregard things like "Gilgamesh is a dick and won't fight at his best unless it is undeniably clear that he needs to, at which point it's probably too late", or, "Saber won't use Excalibur unless she really, really, REALLY has to, and maybe not even then", or "Kuzuki is an assassin so his fighting style revolves around confusing the shit out of his opponent moreso than the brute force provided by reinforcement" then it falls apart.

Which is probably your point, but okay, whatever. Sure.

>>3824148
NOT SO FAST! I play my TRAP CARD...

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824179
... SLASH EMPEROR!

[Anonymous2007 !7AnImelIIg No.]

>>3824148
I love you ORT-tan~

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824184
Your Slash Emperor is useless while I am in this form.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824179
The problem is that there is a Rock/Paper/Scissors for Rock, THEN Rock/Paper/Scissors for paper etc and all combined give a semblance of an outcome, and THEN you have unforeseen circumstances.

>>3824119
Except not. As he is in F/SN, he has the mightiest firepower, but he is actually pretty frail.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824196
But his penis isn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824207
To be fair, if Gilgamesh had the attitude to just whip out Ea and Enuma Elish the shit out of everyone at full power, yeah, he could clean-sweep.

But he won't do that. Not even when he's clearly outmatched otherwise - at least, not until it's way too late. It took f'ing Iskander to get him taking someone seriously, and he has one of the most nasty combat-applicable noble phantasms ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824232
Believe it or not, even Gil knows better than to attract full attention and throw fucking nukes around on every chance. Or Kotomine does and tells him not to.
Cause if a guy who oneshots a couple of servants is around, the rest would team up against him, and that would be bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824242

In the Fourth War, Gilgamesh goes cruising around on a gigantic golden ancient Babylonian space ship and fights Berserker, who takes over an F-15 to deal with him. Do not tell me that he has a sense of subtlety and gives a shit what anybody thinks about him using Ea. He doesn't.

He's just too arrogant to use it to end fights instantly unless he feels he absolutely needs to, which he almost never does because Gates of Babylon are enough to deal with just about anyone. Even in cases like Fate/Zero Berserker though, he doesn't bring out Ea lightly despite the degree to which it would simplify things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824242
Except for that it'd wipe them all out real quicklike. He has one of the best defensive abilities, along with weapon spam that gives anyone grief not to mention that he can drop ea *while* lols of babyloning everyone.

He's easily the best servant in the nasuverse but he plays the role of pro-jobber the entire fucking series.

It just wouldn't be very fun to see every fight turn out like the Caster vs Gilgamesh one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824263
>>3824281
When that event happens, Caster has called a fucking HUGE tentacle menace.
Gil's ship is barely an issue.
Small reminder, F/SN Gil is 'weaker' than Zero one, human body and mana availability being the issues.
Plus, with this kind of logic, Saber popping up and suddenly EXCALIBAAAAAA would end it 99% of the time as well.
Or Lancer doing a couple Gae Bolg's in the row when he jumps on you.
Or Rider suddenly swooping down at 500mph with her Pegasus while you take a leak.
So you guys effectively claim 'EVERY SERVANT SHOULD UNLOAD EVERYTHING RIGHT AWAY YEAAAAAAH'.
Not a good idea.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824310
actually, yes. That's the only effective way to determine power-levels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824328
That's how you measure 'If an NP hit an unprepared opponent, which would cause the most wanton damage possible' levels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824310
No. Not every Servant should unload right away. Most of them can't. Gilgamesh can, and we know he can because Human!Gil can utilize Ea casually just to fuck around with Shirou or Saber - and that casual low-power blast rapes even Saber.

If Gil used Ea in earnest rather than holding it for reserve when he's nearly about to be cut in half - not even at full-power - he would be easily capable of brutally destroying all Servants we know of except for Saber with Avalon. He can do this with reasonable efficiency, and even a glancing/diverted blast at low power is enough to do brutal damage to a strong servant like Saber - albeit not at her peak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824333
If you happen to be an entity whose sole purpose is to kill other beings that possess incredible powers then you should probably stay prepared.

Just saying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3823836

I'm honestly really glad there are people like this who can clarify things about series I love.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824347
Saber with a proper Mana connection could unload an Excalibur per day.
Moot arguments are moot.
For multiple reasons, one of them being arrogance, Servants never unload too much right away and they do not just throw nukes anywhere.
You assume Gil would carry out the plan without a hitm but he is frail himsel, a different Servant unloading on him after getting the drop would mean he is dead.

Best Firepower!=Win no matter what.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3824395
Two, actually - the efficiency compared to Ea is still abysmal, though. And she'd be at death's doorstep as a result of it.

I suppose you are correct that the attention brought to him by free use of Enuma Elish could be his undoing. By contrast however, if surprise wasn't firmly established he could still blow multiple Heroic Spirits away with it easily. Even Heracles was not a match for much, much lesser weapons.

[Anonymous No.]

Well, /jp/, I'm off to bed. This has been an entertaining thread, so I will not sage on this last post. Have an awesome picture of Iskander.

[Anonymous No.]

NO

NOT AT ALL

[Anonymous No.]

You guys crack me up.

[Anonymous No.]

>durr powerlevels hurr

This thread in a nutshell.