So, I heard I missed a shitstorm.

File: 80 KB, 1024x768, GARkuzuki.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:02:04 2008 No.374587 [Reply] [Original]

So, I heard I missed a shitstorm.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:03:54 2008 No.374599 you mean the powerlevel discussion?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:04:33 2008 No.374603 File: 38 KB, 634x476, 1207069473370.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The religion stuff? It was lulzy.

>>	MolesterJim Tue Apr 1 17:04:49 2008 No.374605 >>374587 Not really.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:06:01 2008 No.374612 >>374603 I was the OP and I deleted it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:06:18 2008 No.374614 File: 349 KB, 1050x843, 1207069578438.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I saw this panel and thought of 4chan's moderation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:06:44 2008 No.374619 >>374612 Oh you faggot.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:08:19 2008 No.374631 File: 59 KB, 800x600, 1207069699937.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I feel like I've missed some exquisite trolling do to this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:08:20 2008 No.374632 >>374614 They are still a bit nervous from yesterdays BAWWWings. In b4 404'd

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:09:18 2008 No.374641

>ITT: Pretend sciencefags try to prove that a belief is scientifically unfounded, despite nobody asserting that a belief was somehow scientifically founded to begin with, so that they can feel superior to everyone else in the thread by somehow accomplishing what no person in history has ever been able to do, by proving that "gods" are impossible.

>Once more, the internet proves that you don't have to be a Christian fundamentalist to be an obnoxious faggot with no end to the strawmen he can pull out of his ass to prove an argument nobody even cared about in the first place.

>>374569
>Not all people believe that a sentient creator is necessarily opposed to "evil" because not all people believe in the concept of "evil."

>Also, a sentient creator would allow for free will, if only so it could see how situations would turn out based on the freedom to make independent choices, even if wrong.

>But that's just my opinion, which is neither factual nor assertive of a single truth, and is therefore immune to being LOLPROVEDWRONG by unrepentantly belligerent atheists who give real scientists bad names.

Shitstorm transplant?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:09:57 2008 No.374648 Basically, content that /jp/ enjoys != content that belongs on /jp/, apparently.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:10:55 2008 No.374655
File: 40 KB, 589x396, 1207069855079.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>374641
k

1) God exists (premise)
2) God is omnipotent (premise)
3) God is benevolent (premise)
4) Benevolent beings are opposed to all evil. (premise)
5) God is opposed to all evil. (conclusion from 3 and 4)
6) God can eliminate evil completely. (conclusion from 2)
6a) Whatever event ends in suffering, God can bring about ways for said event to not include suffering. (conclusion from 2)
6b) God has no reason not to eliminate evil (conclusion from 6a)
7) God will eliminate evil completely. (conclusion from 5, 6 and 6b)
8) Evil exists, has existed, and most likely will always exist. (premise)
9) Items 7 and 8 are contradictory; therefore, one or more of the premises is false: either God does not exist, or he is not both omnipotent and benevolent.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:11:20 2008 No.374657 >>374648 If you never visited /a/ before the lobotomy, then you'd never understand anyway. Also, NICE CASTER.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:12:21 2008 No.374667 Superstition is the cancer killing mankind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:12:39 2008 No.374670 >>374657 I added the "apparentlY" there for a reason.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:12:54 2008 No.374671 File: 38 KB, 119x118, 1207069974326.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374657 Na na nice boat Na na nice boat

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:13:55 2008 No.374682 So, guys, why don`t we have a discussion about RELIGION IN JAPAN?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:14:50 2008 No.374691 There very well may be an omnipotent being that created the universe. But really, they would most likely be completely uninterested in us. They're a fucking omnipotent being, they've got better things to do than babysit some monkeys.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:14:52 2008 No.374690 File: 6 KB, 150x200, 1207070092390.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374641 I lol'd

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:15:15 2008 No.374694

>>374655
Your system assumes a strict dichotomous relationship which defines the actions of a supposed creator. A creator need not have two categories: that which is good and that which is evil.

Like all creators, the creation made is without a definition of "for the good" or "for the bad". It is merely a creation which may serve a purpose or function. How the creation is used after its creation defines whether it helps or hinders.

But why would a creator even care about helping or hindering? It created a system which is defined by, to humans, amoral rules. There's not a defined dichotomous relationship anywhere in the universe except in human thought.

The assumption that a "god" would have the same thought structure or intent as an average human is completely unreasonable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:16:06 2008 No.374699 File: 106 KB, 700x799, 1207070166537.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374682 Shinto is AWESOME

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:17:21 2008 No.374706 >>374682 Christianity is in moonland. In before, during, and after Biblefags and HARDCORE TOUGHGUY ATHEISTS.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:17:38 2008 No.374711 >>374612 here >>374587 delete this topic before it becomes a serious shitstorm like mine. Pretty please.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:18:40 2008 No.374721 Myes.....myes....

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:18:41 2008 No.374722 >>374711 Why do you hate fun?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:18:45 2008 No.374723

>>374655
If god is truly omnipotent, its level of understanding would be to us like a human brain is to a dog's.

This is like that "could god make a stone so heavy even he couldn't lift it argument"; it falls flat because the person making the argument is using omnipotence as their premise, then using the idea that he's NOT omnipotent to disprove being omnipotent. A truly omnipotent being would be able to make that unliftable stone, then heft it up anyway, despite it still being unliftable.

Since omnipotence can cover absolutely everything, it's impossible to disprove logically. That doesn't make the belief in such a being necessarily logical, however.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:18:52 2008 No.374725 >>374655 >6b) God has no reason not to eliminate evil (conclusion from 6a) Non sequitur.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:19:54 2008 No.374733 >>374694 I can't come up with an argument against it so I will just say that God's ways transcend human comprehension and killing 6 million people is fine with a god that's supposed to be a loving and kind god. You sure got me there.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:19:57 2008 No.374727 >>374711 Someone else will just start another one. Once a shitstorm starts, it has to blow itself out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:20:39 2008 No.374738 RIB INCEST

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:20:45 2008 No.374741 >>374723 That particular argument (the heavy stone) fails due to the "contradictory premises" fallacy, to put it more succinctly.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:21:35 2008 No.374745

>>374725
A non sequitur is a conversational and literary device, often used for comical purposes (as opposed to its use in formal logic). It is a comment which, due to its lack of meaning relative to the comment it follows, is absurd to the point of being humorous or confusing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:21:52 2008 No.374747 I choose to believe things for which there is evidence. If someone finds evidence of the conservation of matter/energy being violated, then, sure, I'll accept the fact that there's a small chance that an undetectable being might've caused it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:22:12 2008 No.374749 >>374723 Well the burden of proof lies with christians so yeah.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:23:07 2008 No.374755

>>374733
You completely transform an entire sentence from its original meaning, ignore the fact that I never ascribed human thought to an omnipotent creator, and I'm supposed to be impressed?

It's like asking if I care whether Cyber Hitler gasses millions of pretend Cyber Jews. Sure, it seems like a really evil thing to me, but I'm not impacted much by something that happens in a computer program.

"God" probably doesn't care much, if at all, aside from observing the results of actions. Human morality is just that: ultimately human.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:24:11 2008 No.374761 File: 73 KB, 800x600, 1207070651738.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Kuzuki sure is the best character in FSN.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:24:47 2008 No.374767 >>374755 I can't tell you why God allowed Hitler to kill 6 million people so I will just keep talking until I can change the subject. Well I have no argument against that. Now about shinto.

>>	MySQLconnectionsuccess !0vQ8k.N6XM Tue Apr 1 17:25:02 2008 No.374769 File: 35 KB, 310x390, 1207070702993.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Even if He existed, His Truth wouldn't be worth of the children's suffering.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:25:07 2008 No.374771

>>374745
>as opposed to its use in formal logic

This is being used in the context of formal logic.

>1. incongruous statement: a statement that appears unrelated to a statement that it follows

>2. unwarranted conclusion: a conclusion that does not follow from its premises

>[< Latin, "it does not follow"]

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:25:46 2008 No.374774

>>374749
In discussions like this it helps that I'm not a Christian, since that seems to be the only religion the sort of atheist who gets offended that anyone could be religious seems to care about.

Regardless, Christianity is centered around faith. It was never meant to be approached scientifically, despite what some of its followers have made of it. Which is a big reason why attempts to prove or disprove the existence of a deity is irrelevant to it.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:25:54 2008 No.374775

>>374761
No wai. Kotomine is the best. Kuzuki wants Caster to be with him.

Kotomine does it for the simple purpose of observing an entity of absolute evil at its birth, so he can reach self-understanding.

He wins for the sheer philosophical purity of it all.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:26:08 2008 No.374777 >>374755 Therefore concepts like "benevolent" and "malevolent" don't apply to your particular, personal idea of what "God" should be like. You could have just said that one of the premises in the proof is false instead of being all round-about about it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:27:11 2008 No.374784 >>374774 Well if it can't be proven then it's like saying King Arthur and magic is real as long as you believe. That's not going to get many people convinced.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:27:32 2008 No.374785 File: 61 KB, 800x600, 1207070852996.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374775 Who wouldn't want to be with caster.. she's so.... loyal..

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:27:55 2008 No.374788

Whether god exists or not, I don`t care. And he propably doesn`t care too.

The problem is religion. Religions were created to:
a) Give people a reason to live
b) Give people a reason to live abiding by religion`s rules (that are mosly considered "good")
c) To control people

I don`t need a reason to live other than life itself. Living is enough for me. I also have my own moral rules, so I don`t need someone else`s. And I don`t like being controlled by other people.

I don`t have anything against religion. Some people just need a reason to live, or have to be afraid of something to not, for instance, go out and kill other people. As for the controlling, I don`t care. If other people get controlled, it`s their business. As long as they`re not trying to drag me in, I don`t care.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:28:06 2008 No.374790

>>374767
Again, you ignore the point: why would "God" care about Hitler's actions, from a moral perspective? That implies that we're deserving of anything from him. At all.

You project your own belief that "God" is a moral being onto me, when human morality is in itself a fragile and impure concept.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:28:53 2008 No.374795 >>374784 Honestly, why should the Christian care what others think? Faith is a personal thing, or at least it ought to be.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:29:15 2008 No.374797 File: 50 KB, 800x600, 1207070955072.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374761 He's all business

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:30:31 2008 No.374806

>>374777
It's easier to show that the "GODFAGS" many atheists rage and foam about have different opinions on what actually constitutes a "sentient creator." This way, I get to see the depth of intellectual dishonesty many toughguys will go to in order to somehow prove that they're the right ones, and that everyone else is wrong, and that somehow they're more important because of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:30:36 2008 No.374808 >>374795 Not when your particular religion compels you to spread it and kill all nonbelievers if they refuse to convert!

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:30:48 2008 No.374810 >>374790 The bible says god is moral. You just said he wasn't. You're contradicting god's word. You are a heretic. You will burn in hell. These are the things I got from your post. Enjoy life.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:31:18 2008 No.374813 File: 65 KB, 800x600, 1207071078644.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Winning team right here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:32:21 2008 No.374818 >>374790 If your God doesn't mind that someone could go out and mass murder 6 million people and get away with it. Why would you worship him other than being afraid of the afterlife?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:32:34 2008 No.374820

>>374810
Again, you equate the idea of a sentient creator solely with Christianity, which I have never once claimed to believe in.

GUESS WHAT? "God" existed before Christianity. The concept is one of the oldest ones in existence, probably as old or older than even prostitution, probably the oldest profession in existence.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:34:01 2008 No.374826

>>374818
And another strawman is that idea of "worship," which is not necessarily a component of the belief in a creator. Just because I believe in certain principles or ideas doesn't mean that I necessarily wish to worship them.

Not all believers in a creator are Christians, despite what you might be led to believe by your rather sheltered lives.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:34:20 2008 No.374827 >>374777 That wouldn't be entirely an accurate summation of his argument, though it certainly would have been simpler. Regardless, the argument in is invalid. >>374725

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:34:20 2008 No.374829 >>374818 Who says you need to worship God? Why would it even want to be worshiped?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:34:51 2008 No.374835

>>374820
Mithra predates christians with the exact same story. If it's age then shouldn't you worship the same thing as the Mithra instead of putting your faith in a much older god?

How about the egyptian gods? They have the same story too and iirc they predate even the Mithra.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:34:57 2008 No.374836 >>374777 That wouldn't be entirely an accurate summation of his argument, though it certainly would have been simpler. Regardless, the argument in >>374655 is invalid. >>374725

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:35:49 2008 No.374839 File: 391 KB, 617x617, 1207071349086.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374826 >>374829 Okay, why would you want to believe in a god like that then?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:36:10 2008 No.374843

>>374808
Note "ought to." I'm reasonably sure the historical (or son of god, if you're into that) Jesus would weep to see the acts that have been carried out in his name, just as Marx would weep to see what Stalin made of his political ideology.

>>374810
I'm not that guy, but aren't you forgetting that Christianity isn't the only religion under the sun? Why does everyone I've ever seen argue against religion assume that everyone who's religious is Christian? It's like assuming anyone who's an atheist is amoral or a homosexual or something equally ridiculous.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:36:26 2008 No.374844 >>374836 A non sequitur is a conversational and literary device, often used for comical purposes. It is a comment which, due to its lack of meaning relative to the comment it follows, is absurd to the point of being humorous or confusing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:36:30 2008 No.374845 People created god and claimed it was the other way around. End of story.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:36:49 2008 No.374848 File: 97 KB, 500x563, 1207071409786.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Posting image in imageboard.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:37:26 2008 No.374853 File: 150 KB, 500x563, 1207071446148.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:37:27 2008 No.374854 File: 145 KB, 600x600, 1207071447726.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374843 Arguing against christianity here, not religion. Because some gods are sexy.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:37:58 2008 No.374858 File: 178 KB, 500x563, 1207071478466.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374854 incoming sexiest

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:38:23 2008 No.374864 >>374858 I won't bother you more than this post.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:38:26 2008 No.374865 File: 170 KB, 500x563, 1207071506377.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:39:01 2008 No.374868 File: 184 KB, 500x563, 1207071541416.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:39:15 2008 No.374872 There is no God

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:39:49 2008 No.374874 File: 112 KB, 500x563, 1207071589585.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:40:19 2008 No.374877 File: 128 KB, 500x563, 1207071619047.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:40:35 2008 No.374881

>>374843
Because out of all people of religion, Christians make up the largest portion of the demographic that's likely to own a computer and have access to posting and viewing sites freely on the internet. Thus those posting about their religion on the internet are most likely to be Christian.

Same reason everyone assumes everyone else on 4chan is male. Simple demographics.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:40:49 2008 No.374885 >>374875 A MISERABLE PILE OF WORSHIPPERS

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:40:58 2008 No.374875 WHAT IS A GOD?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:41:09 2008 No.374889 sage

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:41:50 2008 No.374896 >>374881 No girls on the internet.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:42:08 2008 No.374899

>>374839
Well, the fact that a sentient existence may exist that puts a priority on an ordered system of existence make me feel more comfortable with the idea that the world and the universe isn't going to suddenly fall apart at the seams because somewhere along the way, a comet divides by zero on its trajectory.

There's no real point. It's a belief in an existence above oneself, which invites the idea of eventually becoming an existence which is better than yourself right now. If there's something powerful and better than yourself, then you seek to become something better than yourself right now.

tl;dr, thinking about such things changes your perspective on the world and invites change in your thinking, which is always refreshing in a Ctrl+C world.

>>374835
Not everyone believes in the same principles regarding the world or any creator. As opposed to the idea of "worship" that I am, I'm not going to worry about people changing what they believe in and do, though, so long as it doesn't entice them to come and nail me to a cross in order to some how bring around the second coming of a dead carpenter.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:42:55 2008 No.374897

>>374854
Fair enough.

Something I've always found interesting is how, whereas Judaism aimed to move away from the focus on god as an entity (thus, for example, the vague creation story where polytheitic systems have detailed accounts of such and such god lopping off another god's testicles and casting them into the sea, thus spawning the earth) and towards the affairs of people, Christianity moved in the opposite directi

actually nevermind this is boring. I am going to get something to eat, enjoy ur thread

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:43:11 2008 No.374909 >>374874 ARE THEY STILL ON NAMEK?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:44:29 2008 No.374914 >>374909 Pro-tip: You never leave the game.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:44:35 2008 No.374915 >>374909 >ARE THEY STILL ON RELIGION? Fix'd

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:45:36 2008 No.374923 Someone please tell me that not everyone in this thread is as ignorant as >>374844

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:45:58 2008 No.374919 >>374899 Avoiding the question, why would you believe in a god that let's people kill each other in such incredibly large numbers when he's supposed to be a kind and loving god? Except out of fear of the afterlife.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:46:26 2008 No.374926 >>374919 Have you not been reading any of his posts?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:46:39 2008 No.374928 File: 114 KB, 732x690, 1207071999263.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374919 Forgot my picture of a god I'd worship.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:46:39 2008 No.374929 File: 226 KB, 768x1024, 1207071999679.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374923 I'm pretty ignorant.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:48:46 2008 No.374945 File: 28 KB, 300x300, 1207072126717.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374926 Doesn't make a difference. You could just say it instead of write an essay about it.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 17:50:54 2008 No.374955 File: 108 KB, 800x600, 1207072254075.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This topic. Pic related.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:55:07 2008 No.374972

>>374945
You didn't seem to understand, so I thought I'd elucidate my points to make it easier for your seemingly feeble grasp of standard reasoning to follow.

The idea that a god is either kind or loving does not have to be true. At all. Those are human traits, not the required traits of a creator.

God could be TATARI, for all I know. It might wish only to cause drama for its own amusement. Understanding the thoughts of a sentient entity capable of creating a universe is impossible for something of its own creation, I would think. Something born of and ruled by the system cannot exceed the system.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:56:12 2008 No.374974 >>374972 TLDR Try writing a post instead of an essay.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:56:13 2008 No.374975

>>374899
>tl;dr, thinking about such things changes your perspective on the world and invites change in your thinking, which is always refreshing in a Ctrl+C world.

fail. religion is CTRL+C. Atheism forces you to create YOUR own opinion about the world. To form your own life rules, points of view, etc. Religion is for weak people that can`t think for themselves and have to have a ready-made opinion insterted into their heads.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:58:21 2008 No.374989

>>374972
>God could be TATARI, for all I know

Now THIS is something /jp/ related!

I like the idea. I mean, I don`t belive in god, but if I were one, I certainly would cause drama just for the heck of it. Because it`s fun to see people arguing and attacking each other.

Come to think of it, if god created us to resemble him (like christfags belive), wouldn`t it be logical? I mean, we enjoy causing drama so maybe god likes it too? If he exists, that is.

>>	Christfag Tue Apr 1 17:59:21 2008 No.374990 >>374975 fail. religion is CTRL+C. Atheism forces you to create YOUR own opinion about the world. SHIT IT'S LOGIC! RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:59:21 2008 No.374991 >>374975 You could be not religious and not atheist, you know. And still forming your own views.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:02:11 2008 No.375011 >>374991 >not religious and not atheist whut

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:02:40 2008 No.375014 In during chrstifags spamming other threads so they don't have to see the evil heretics

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:03:12 2008 No.375018 >>374972 All you're doing is a wonderful job of stating over and over that a logical proof doesn't apply to a different set of premises. Thanks for that revelation. You can stop now.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:03:42 2008 No.375022 >>375011 ya know, agnostic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:04:56 2008 No.375023 >>375011 HERETIC MOTHERFUCKER, ARE YOU ONE?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:04:56 2008 No.375026 >>375022 Same thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:05:11 2008 No.375027 >>375011 TOO DIFFICULT FOR YOUR FEEBLE MIND TO GRASP?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:05:40 2008 No.375030 >>375026 Same thing as what? Agnostic is clearly different from both theist or atheist.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:06:31 2008 No.375039

Atheism is the belief that there is no god.

Atheism is a belief, if it is a position that you hold about the world.

Congratulations, atheism, by your definition, is a religion.

Religions are beliefs that have become ways of life. Having no concrete opinion or inference of action from a belief is not a religion. It's like professing to be a Jedi in the religion box on forms.

Belief in the possibility of a sentient creator isn't a religion. It's a viewpoint. Beliefs become religion when you actually start acting on them, particularly for the purpose of worshipping, proselytizing for, or assigning ritual to those beliefs.

WHEE, I'M A BIG BAD TOUGHGUY AGAINST ALL RELIGION. LOOK AT HOW LOGICAL I AM, RAILING AGAINST THOSE CHRISTFAGS.

Except you just sound like a moron.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:06:36 2008 No.375041 I'm really not sure what's more annoying, christfags or atheistfags.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:06:40 2008 No.375042

>>374975
>Atheism forces you to create YOUR own opinion about the world.

Except how, y'know, you can easily learn it from anyone and just copy their opinion. It's not like there are no atheists in the world who'd be happy to instruct others as to how they think the world works.

>>375018
Did *you* write >>374655 ? Because I'm still waiting for someone to address >>374725

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:08:09 2008 No.375053 >>375041 I'm neither I just like to pretend to be atheist to rile up christfags.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:08:29 2008 No.375057 Oh, and by the definition of the atheist in the thread, he's attempting to proselytize everyone here into believing his way is the correct and only way. RELIGION WITHOUT A GOD! I thought that was called communism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:09:24 2008 No.375060 >>375039 It's not, really. The base line is atheist, to not believe in something isn't an action. You could just as well say that not believing in Santa Claus or invisible sky magicians is a religion. It's not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:09:42 2008 No.375062 God exists? Pics or it didn`t happen.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:09:44 2008 No.375063 >>375053 Yeah, pretending to be a troll is always mature. I think I'm going to make TATARI my personal savior.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:10:35 2008 No.375067 >>375057 >RELIGION WITHOUT A GOD! I thought that was called communism. Dood, communism would have been awesome. Too bad socialism failed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:10:35 2008 No.375068 >>375039 Atheism is as much a religion as buddha is a god.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:11:32 2008 No.375074 File: 136 KB, 639x477, 1207073492142.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 18:12:29 2008 No.375078 File: 140 KB, 1058x792, 1207073549881.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:12:51 2008 No.375081 >>375074 MAKOTTO MAKOTTO MAKOTTO MAKOTTO! Also, ITT we worship TATARI

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:13:13 2008 No.375082

>>375060
Believing in the absence of something to the point where you develop rituals of action, attempt to convert others, and refuse to tolerate ideas which are counter to your own... is not a religion?

There's already something for the tacit belief of not caring either way, as someone pointed out. It's called Agnosticism. Atheism requires a directed belief against a principle. You don't just care about the concept of god. You believe in the absence of one to the point that you must prove to others the absence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:13:48 2008 No.375086 >>375082 Atheism is as much a religion as buddha is a god.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:13:49 2008 No.375087

>>374975
my dear sir, where did you find that super awesome scale on which it clearly states that "your own life rules, points of view, etc. you are forced to create when being an atheist" are clearly superior to the "ready-made opinion inserted into your head by religion"?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:14:50 2008 No.375089

>>375060
Incorrect. Atheism is the belief in the nonexistence of spiritual entities. It is defined by belief, not lack of belief.

Otherwise, atheist and agnostic would be synonymous--but they're not.

You could just as well say that believing the Earth is not an elliptical sphere isn't a religion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:14:51 2008 No.375090 Also, I'm going to start the Church of TATARI. I wonder if I can get tax exemption.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:14:51 2008 No.375091

>>375082 Believing in the absence of something to the point where you develop rituals of action, attempt to convert others, and refuse to tolerate ideas which are counter to your own... is not a religion?
Only if you have a defined and official way of doing it, like christianity.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:15:48 2008 No.375094

>>375022
Agnosticism sucks. It's a retarded, intellectually dishonest mode of thought that only exists because being atheist is too scary for some people. We can't know if God exists or not? Well no fucking shit, we can't know if invisible pink elephants made out of unobtanium exist but that doesn't mean I have to entertain the notion. Likewise, if God exists but we don't have any way of knowing about Him, HE IS MEANINGLESS MENTAL WANKERY.

AGNOSTICS ARE ATHEISTS, just too damn weak to admit it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:16:10 2008 No.375097 >>375087 Because it`s MY opinion, that`s what makes it better. I`m an Egoist - that`s my religion. But to be serious, I just see it. For example, I don`t make fun or harass people that belive in something other than what I belive in.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:16:42 2008 No.375099 >>375097 D&D says you're evil.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:16:55 2008 No.375096 >>375089 You could just as well say that believing the Earth is not an elliptical sphere isn't a religion. But it isn't.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:17:05 2008 No.375101

>>375091
"Established" religions are not the only religions. Any belief which becomes a defining principle within your life, without the backing of science in this case, becomes a religion.

The belief in the non-existence of god, an unprovable belief by itself, becomes religion if you must act upon that belief in society, especially in order to establish your belief in the non-existence of god as the only belief which others should ascribe to.

Religious imperialism at its finest.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:18:27 2008 No.375105 >>375094 You're intolerant of agnostics. That's enough evidence for me to support the notion that agnostics are distinct from atheists.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:18:48 2008 No.375107 >>375099 I`ve always played evil characters in D&D. But I could never decide between Rightful Evil and Chaotic Evil.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:19:25 2008 No.375110 >>375097 >For example, I don`t make fun or harass people that belive in something other than what I belive in. Except anonymously.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:19:25 2008 No.375111 >>375107 Lawful evil. Fucking exhaustion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:19:28 2008 No.375112 >>375101 Basically you're saying that everything can be put into a group and catalogued. This is not true.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:20:59 2008 No.375113 >>375111 Neutral Evil here, but lawful is cool too.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:21:08 2008 No.375116

>>375094
No, accepting that there are things we cannot be sure about is a reasonable attitude to take in life. Accepting that other people will have opinions that you may consider inane or obtuse, but don't effect you in any way, is mature.

Calling all religions equally atrocious and setting up the very limited belief in the non-existence of any sentient influence in creation is juvenile.

You might as well be the next person who stands up and mouths off about the need to "ban religion" because it doesn't get the approval of scientists.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:21:48 2008 No.375118

>>375101 The belief in the non-existence of god, an unprovable belief by itself, becomes religion if you must act upon that belief in society
Atheism don't have to do that except if christianity forces them to.
>especially in order to establish your belief in the non-existence of god as the only belief which others should ascribe to.
They should because anything else is just directly stupid. And I hate stupid people.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:22:53 2008 No.375121 >>375112 I'm curious as to why you believe that that is not true.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:22:53 2008 No.375123 THE THOUGHT THAT I STARTED THIS SHITSTORM MAKES ME FEEL BAD (I`m LHD thread`s OP). PLEASE STOP. Also, religions suck. People with imaginary friends are pathetic. God doesn`t exist unless you provide pics. Now stop.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:23:53 2008 No.375126 >>375121 The world wasn't made for it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:25:53 2008 No.375132 >>375113 Ordained cleric of Hextor, here. I believe that it is very much in your best interest to convert before I get ahold of you. >>375123 >PLEASE STOP. >People with imaginary friends are pathetic. You are a horrible idiot or a troll.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:26:12 2008 No.375137 File: 122 KB, 500x1246, 1207074372229.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:27:51 2008 No.375139 File: 355 KB, 640x1800, 1207074471282.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Disprove this, christfags.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:28:17 2008 No.375144 >>375132 >Ordained cleric of Hextor, here. HEXTORFAG! Lawful evil + no gods = born overlord. That`s why I like being lawful evil. >You are a horrible idiot or a troll. I`m propably both. But seriously, stop now.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:29:07 2008 No.375151 File: 93 KB, 700x300, 1207074547760.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:29:26 2008 No.375153 >>375144 But clerics are the most overpowered class in D&D so yeah.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:29:40 2008 No.375154 File: 212 KB, 640x480, 1207074580977.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>375144 I MUST CONVERT YOU TO THE SIDE OF GOOD

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:30:10 2008 No.375155

>>375116
Accepting that there are some things we can never know about is the mental wankery I mentioned before. If we cannot know about it, ie it does not have an effect on us or in the observable universe, it might as well not exist. If you can't know about it, how can you possibly claim that it exists? You can make up any number of things in your head and claim that's how the world is, but it's all meaningless outside the confines of your mind. That is agnosticism.

I don't mind faith, that's intellectually honest. Believers can believe whatever they want, no skin off my nose. But agnostics need to admit that either they believe in that particular unprovable something (theist) or they don't (atheist).

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:30:52 2008 No.375157 File: 74 KB, 894x700, 1207074652375.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This is why religion is superior.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:30:53 2008 No.375158

>>375137
So, one little moron is going to use science as a reason to crush all philosophical debate on the topic of metaphysical existence?

SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THE CHRISTFAGS WOULD DO.

Seriously, the problem isn't religion, it's the idea that somehow you're the only one that's right and you have priority on the oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere.

The Church of TATARI will hold regular services.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:31:15 2008 No.375165 >>375153 Oooh, didn`t know about that since I`ve never played a cleric... I`m more of a dwarven warrior type guy who worships gold and beer. Clerics always seemed too weak for me. I remembered that one time when I... Whoops, it`s not /tg/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:31:36 2008 No.375166 >>375154 I'm 95% evil. You'll need to post more to turn me back.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:32:07 2008 No.375167 File: 119 KB, 750x600, 1207074727617.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>375158

>>	Vietonomous Tue Apr 1 18:32:23 2008 No.375169 File: 240 KB, 1050x1500, 1207074743451.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>375154 DAMN IT, Nuns... my other weakness Why couldn't Buddhism have a more attractive uniform.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:32:42 2008 No.375171 >>375155 >If we cannot know about it, ie it does not have an effect on us or in the observable universe, Doesn't follow.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:32:56 2008 No.375173 File: 69 KB, 417x450, 1207074776328.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>375169 You want shinto.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:33:13 2008 No.375175 File: 134 KB, 700x300, 1207074793703.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:33:52 2008 No.375177 File: 58 KB, 662x1303, 1207074832179.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:34:59 2008 No.375180 File: 122 KB, 700x300, 1207074899483.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:35:40 2008 No.375186 >>375171 ?? Isn't that what "cannot know" means? If it has an effect on something we can observe, we can observe that effect also. So we can know about it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:35:55 2008 No.375188 File: 26 KB, 128x256, 1207074955218.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:37:02 2008 No.375191

>>375165
We've got heavy armor, good combat-survival stats, magic for ALL occasions, enough 9th level spells to perform any bizarre chicanery requested, spell specialization without any penalties, and spontaneous casting.

You never really need someone who isn't a cleric.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:37:14 2008 No.375195 File: 57 KB, 480x486, 1207075034085.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:38:12 2008 No.375199 >>375186 No. You can see the effects of something without knowing what actually happened.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:39:09 2008 No.375201

>>375155
They don't need to admit shit to you on anything, because it's their damn opinion on what they think. The idea that you somehow have the right to decide what they can and can't think is laughable, and reminds me that I'm both on the internet and on 4chan.

Also, the idea that the world exists in a state that we are unsure about is a scientific concept as well. We don't believe in the existence of something until we discover it, now do we? The concept of x-rays would've been voodoo to the Europeans when they were out conquering the Aztecs and bringing in the Christianity. Science doesn't progess without the idea that what we discover might completely destroy everything that we might have believed before. That uncertainty drives us to find out more about the world.

Quantum physics stands to completely destroy everything we once thought about the universe's foundations. I'm more than ready to hear what is discovered, even if I have to change my thinking. But you will probably keep believing that no other sentience greater than yourself exists, and you'll demand that other people believe that too to reinforce that belief.

It might be true. There might be nothing. But there also might be something. The blind belief in nothing will prevent you from ever finding what could be there.

I find Agnosticism a much more refreshing look at the world than the driving necessity to deny even the idea of a sentient creator which may exist beyond our rather limited capabilities to discern.

Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 18:39:34 2008 No.375203
File: 427 KB, 850x1035, 1207075174756.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>375154
>>375169
>>375173
GENTLEMEN!

We will now decide the entire religion vs science debate by having a showdown between hot nuns, mikos, angels, what-have-yous vs hot scientists, engineers, robots, and etc.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:40:17 2008 No.375205 >>375199 Only if your observation is incomplete.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:40:49 2008 No.375206 >>375203 Know who actually wins? Hot lesbian sex.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:41:23 2008 No.375209 >>375203 Shrine Maidens: - lucky star - higurashi Scientists - hayate the combat butler - neon genesis evangelion

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:41:39 2008 No.375211 File: 310 KB, 600x3000, 1207075299983.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] My gods are cuter than your god.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:41:48 2008 No.375212 >>375205 Are you, or have you ever been, omniscient? If you are currently not omniscient but have complete knowledge of the universe at some past point in time, is the universe entirely deterministic? If no, then your observation is incomplete.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:42:09 2008 No.375213

>>375205
No, your observation may exist outside of your capability to fully understand it.

Remember, mathematics is only the human observation and interpretation of how the universe works. Physical reality doesn't run on number computations. Observances and predictions of that reality do.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:42:26 2008 No.375214 Hail Eris, etc.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:42:54 2008 No.375215 File: 232 KB, 621x1930, 1207075374413.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 18:42:58 2008 No.375216 File: 109 KB, 433x640, 1207075378733.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:43:12 2008 No.375217

>>375094
You could very well call me a "flipflop" because I refuse to believe in a deity AND refuse to disbelieve in a deity but, after you've asked the question, my response would be "What does it matter?" The only reasons I'd have to assign myself one way or other would be to associate with one group or the other. I have bouts where I entertain a reverence for a divinity, and bouts where I claim its nonexistence, and the rest of the time I just don't give a damn about your question. The conversations can get interesting and, to maximize that interest, I can take either point or argue both points in the same post.

Just a whim.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:44:24 2008 No.375224 >>375217 Man fails when he believes that other men necessarily must believe the same things he does. Man kills when he can't cope with the reality of that error.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:44:40 2008 No.375226 >>375217 Buddhism is right up your alley then, since they don't call you a heretic for believing in gods while they don't believe in gods themselves.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:44:58 2008 No.375221 tl;dr but need moar caster.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 18:46:20 2008 No.375235 File: 52 KB, 500x600, 1207075580065.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Unless I start seeing some more science images as proof, I'm going to have to conclude that religion wins....

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:46:24 2008 No.375236

>>375191

I don`t trust magic. I mean, I cannot bring myself to like magic as a real person (never liked that elven shiny bling-blang shit), so all my characters don`t trust magic and anything that is magical. You can have better stats etc, but I`ll still choose to be a warrior. Because there`s nothing better than a bunch of enemies in front of you and a heavy piece of sharp steel in your hands.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:46:55 2008 No.375237 >>375236 RIP AND TEAR, RIP AND TEAR YOUR GUTS.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:47:30 2008 No.375242 >>375236 Fighter is such a goddamn weak class. Barbarian is where it's at.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:48:22 2008 No.375248 File: 15 KB, 400x300, 1207075702683.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374587 >So, I heard I missed a shitstorm. Yep, so we all went back to /a/ for a while.

>>	Vietonomous Tue Apr 1 18:48:23 2008 No.375249 File: 134 KB, 1000x696, 1207075703575.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>375235 Science, we ignore your morality and substitute our own.

>>	RedXIII !CYb3Xjpkk. Tue Apr 1 18:48:36 2008 No.375250 >>375236 even if it means your class sucks, enemies are already dead before you can get to them, and you'll never be good for anything but swinging little bits of steel around? thats dedication man.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:49:10 2008 No.375253 >>375242 Fewer feat choices. Fighter is more reliable, even if Barbarian gets huge HP bonuses at levels. Althought nothing feels quite like being a Barbarian.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:49:14 2008 No.375255 >>375242 Warriors don`t need to drink their beer naked.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:49:18 2008 No.375254 File: 110 KB, 700x300, 1207075758512.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:49:51 2008 No.375258 File: 117 KB, 700x300, 1207075791895.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:50:14 2008 No.375262

>>375249
Surely you jest. Science reveals the truth behind religious mysteries.

Example: Don't sleep with your sister. God-fearers just listen.
Science explains that you are more likely going to end up with some mutant freak due to a recombination of recessive alleles.

Which is better? You decide.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 18:50:19 2008 No.375263 File: 211 KB, 637x896, 1207075819026.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Alright science, I'll throw you a bone with 2k-tan, but religion is still winning.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:50:44 2008 No.375266 >>375250 Silly, Role Playan games are for Role Playan, not HackandSlashan. I`ve had many entertaining sessions and adventures that didn`t involve fighting.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:51:07 2008 No.375268

>>375201
I deny the existence of a sentient creator because the idea is pretty ludicrous and brings more problems than it solves, specifically the origin and nature of the said creator. But I am a scientific person (seriously), and if proof of such a being does come up I'll... probably fight it to the end because hey, I'm only human.

I hate agnostics not just because they're intellectually dishonest (they're only human too), but because agnosticism actually hurts atheists. Agnosticism is why some people erroneously believe that atheism is a belief system, even a religion. The difference between agnosticism and atheism is the difference between "we can't know if God exists" and "we can't know if God exists, so he's irrelevant". This is, of course, using the agnostic definition of God, where he is unobservable. They elevate the idea of "God" above every other made-up concept just to please the theist majority. Which is why I call them intellectually dishonest, and atheistic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:51:56 2008 No.375270 >>375262 ...if anything, this proves that the religious authors were unusually knowledgeable of science.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:52:10 2008 No.375274 >>375248 /a/ isn't a shitstorm. It's a shitocean. It's an ocean of shit which merely grows bigger.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:52:30 2008 No.375275 File: 56 KB, 435x470, 1207075950463.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Stop fagging up /jp/

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:52:33 2008 No.375276 >>375253 Frenzied Berserker dude, that's just awesome being. But regardless of what you multiclass into those HP bonuses help a lot more than some silly feats when you multiclass into anything.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:52:53 2008 No.375277 >>375275 /jp/ is now /tg/

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:53:42 2008 No.375284

If we all belived in God and were god-fearing people, we`d still be in dark ages an you wouldn`t have your porn-filled HDDs, let alone computers. You`d be working hard all day to earn money for a bunch of lazy people who call theselves God`s Chosen Ones and you would do nothing about it since God decided it all.

Enjoy your shitty life.

>>	RedXIII !CYb3Xjpkk. Tue Apr 1 18:53:51 2008 No.375287 >>375255 when you sign up for the barbarian they give you a yurt, a goat, and a woman who is as headstrong as she is beautiful. >>375266 then why not play bard? why play a broken combat engine for the social interaction?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:53:59 2008 No.375279 >>375268 Most atheists don't believe "we can't know if God exists."

>>	RedXIII !CYb3Xjpkk. Tue Apr 1 18:54:39 2008 No.375290 >>375277 well, its not like anything else belongs here.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:54:39 2008 No.375291

>>375217
You're an atheist. Atheism is the base line, and only demonization by theists makes people loathe to count themselves as atheists, forcing them to make up meaningless distinctions like agnosticism. I like to entertain the notion that magic exists, but I don't really believe it does. If you don't really believe that God exists, then you... don't believe that God exists. And that makes you an atheist.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:55:04 2008 No.375293

>>375270
Oh ha ha. Good one.

But seriously, with science, you can hold up what you believe to be true and test it. If it is a refutable proposition and yet it proves to be valid, you can be happy, knowing that what you know is true to the best approximation known today.

If you can't test your beliefs, you end up with religious dogma, and what good has ever come out of that? Holy wars? Heretic burning? Sounds like shit to me.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 18:55:27 2008 No.375294 File: 115 KB, 898x1200, 1207076127448.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>375277 Touhous started there.. and Touhous is mostly /jp/ So it's just come round circle now.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:55:42 2008 No.375297

>>375268
If he's irrelevant, then why do you feel the need to "prove" that he doesn't exist and attempt to implicate any association with a sentient creator with absoltue ignorance?

Atheists do so because they believe their belief in no god is superior to the belief in a god.

And because a lot of teen and college atheists are "daring to be different" because it gets them all the hot atheist chicks... no, wait...

Being contradictory for the point of being contradictory just makes you a faggot.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:56:06 2008 No.375299

>>375287
>then why not play bard?

Because bards are faggots. Not because the class is broken, I don`t care about that. I just like being a warrior and that`s all that should count in role playan games.

Go play Diablo and enjoy your +108 to life, +857 to mana and +5 to all skills magical two-handed axe for sorceress.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:56:16 2008 No.375301 >>375293 Holy wars? Oh so now we're talking about the current state of Iraq?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:56:27 2008 No.375303

>>375279
Yes, they do. Well, anyone who has a scientific or logical worldview does. The reason why you hear "I don't believe in God" is because while we understand that (like all things) it is theoretically possible that God does exist, it's not probably enough to entertain the notion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:57:01 2008 No.375308 I tend to agree. Agnostics are wusses of the religious world. They all have limp wrists.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:57:06 2008 No.375309 >>375297 Actually I was just trying to get you riled up for the lulz.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:57:45 2008 No.375312 >>375294 Since when does Chieru wear violet attire and has violet hair?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:58:25 2008 No.375315 >>375312 DON'T QUESTION RELIGION DO YOU WANT GOD'S PUNISHMENT?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:58:45 2008 No.375316

>>375293
Many of the greatest scientists in history were in fact, you guessed it, religious. Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists.

The number of atheistic scientists, those that believed in NO sentient creator, are few in comparison.

And yet it's these religious men that brought us from the dark ages, which was actually caused by the fragmentation and fall of Rome resulting from corruption and invading foreign tribes. Not religion.

I guess atheists aren't historians, either.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 18:58:53 2008 No.375317 File: 107 KB, 812x1173, 1207076333819.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Science isn't trying very hard to win this battle, this is an image board, if you can't back up your words with hot 2D then your point is worthless.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:00:00 2008 No.375324

>>375297
>If he's irrelevant, then why do you feel the need to "prove" that he doesn't exist

Because, doesn`t it hurt to see people that are being manipulated and yet they think it`s okay? If your friend became a satanist\other"evil"bullshit worshipper, wouldn`t you do something?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:00:08 2008 No.375325 >>375297 Actually, it's because we realize that believing in something is utterly ludicrous as God is ridiculous enough to border on lunacy. If you could think logically, you wouldn't believe in unprovable nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:00:10 2008 No.375326 >>375309 As I've said before, the "IMMA JUST TROLLIN, BOSS" fallback is just bullshit. Also, you failed.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:00:47 2008 No.375329

>>375315
The fact that I wasn't struck dead decades ago is more than enough proof that one or more gods do not exist.

Besides this christian god all you Anons are wanking over is just some two-bit sky god. Shouldn't you be worshipping someone more GAR like Zeus? or Thor?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:00:59 2008 No.375323 >>375316 They were religious because if they weren't they'd be KILL BY CHRISTFAGS

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:01:04 2008 No.375330 >>375316 > invading of foreign tribes

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:01:10 2008 No.375331 >>375326 The best thing about this is that I can say it and you won't believe me.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:02:27 2008 No.375335

>>375303
No, I'm serious. Most atheists don't believe that. Many believe that God has been somehow disproven.

This is certainly the case with those who take it as their holy mission to destroy religion, like the authors of such shit as >>375137 and >>375177 .

I have been in lengthy arguments just trying to show an atheist that it is theoretically possible for God to exist.

On an unrelated note, people need to stop claiming that science and religion are opposing views. Science is knowledge. Religions are a specific subset of beliefs. There is nothing at all contradictory about having knowledge and beliefs simultaneously.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:02:33 2008 No.375336 >>375329 You could also just look at /b/

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:03:02 2008 No.375338 >>375324 no. that whole free will thing and respecting other's decisions about their own lives thing fucks me up everytime i guess.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:03:15 2008 No.375340

>>375316
We all know this already. But the amazing thing is in the real of science, these nutjobs kept their private beliefs separate from their A1 science.

Take Pasteur, the guy who figured out if you boil milk you kill the bacteria inside it. Why did he believe this? Um, I don't remember the story, but it had something to do with his embodiment of His Lord the One and True Creator and the people that disagreed with him not only were wrong but against Devine Law.

But guess what? Pasturizing milk has saved my ass and it's an athetist one.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:03:28 2008 No.375341 >>375335 If you read the thread you'd find out he has been disproven

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:04:24 2008 No.375343 >>375303 i think you don't understand how probability works.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:05:01 2008 No.375349 >>375341 Thank you for supporting my statement.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 19:05:10 2008 No.375350 File: 278 KB, 854x1200, 1207076710479.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Posting commentary in image format.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:05:36 2008 No.375352 File: 22 KB, 432x399, 1207076736109.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>375336 > you could also just look here >>375295

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:05:43 2008 No.375353 >>375335 >Many believe that God has been somehow disproven. Well since god was created by people, then if people say that they don`t belive in him, doesn`t that make him disproven?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:06:08 2008 No.375357

>>375325
>>375324

Your definition of happiness and reason is not shared by everyone. People are not the same. They will not think like you do just because you think you're magically superior to them in every respect. They will not share your belief that believing in the possibility of the unprovable, by current standards of detection, is INSANE.

Being conceited doesn't make you superior. The idea that others need "saving" from their own choices makes you sound like you're the saviors of mankind. The problem with that is you put yourself in the same territory of people that make the argument that religion must save people from themselves.

tl;dr, Stop being a cultural and intellectual fascist, and let people think with their own minds instead of being slaves to your perceptions of what's good and wholesome.

The first step in the scientific method is being open to possibilities without feeling that you need ascribe only to that set of possibilities. Observations may have resulted from something other than what you first believed them to have come from.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:06:57 2008 No.375355 >>375349 I don't mind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:07:27 2008 No.375362 >>375353 No and no.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:07:28 2008 No.375363 >>375335 >show an atheist that it is theoretically possible for God to exist. Why yes, it sure IS possible. But he doesn`t exist. Just like it`s possible for me to kill you, but you`re still alive.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:07:59 2008 No.375360 >>375357 People are not the same THEY HAVE TO BE OR THEY ARE INSANE READ THE THREAD MORAN

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:08:11 2008 No.375365 >>375363 I'm glad you understand that much, but that's not the point.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:08:11 2008 No.375366

>>375335
It's because those people you have arguments with are the atheist equivalent of Jerry Falwell. There are stupid people everywhere, and I'm not going to deny that there's a big subgroup of FUCK GOD I'M SO EDGY AND POSSIBLY CALL MYSELF A NIHILIST, but that's not the majority. Seriously. I wanted badly to point out the fallacy in using a proof that disproves an omnipotent, benevolent to somehow disprove the idea of God, but the last thread was deleted. People who can't argue logically are the worst, no matter what their personal premises are.

Also, I would hold that spiritual belief and a scientific worldview are inherently at odds, but I don't want to insult all the religious scientists out there whose work isn't affected by their non-scientific beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:08:27 2008 No.375369 >>375357 FACISM IS THE ONLY WAY, IF YOU'RE NOT A FACIST YOU'RE INSANE

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:08:50 2008 No.375372 >>375350 Yep, and for centuries budding doctors has the SECRETLY skulk aboult looking for cadavers to practice on. But guess what? Practicing on dead bodies makes for better surgeons. Too bad primitive religious societies cannot accept that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:08:52 2008 No.375373 >>375357 :Stop being a cultural and intellectual fascist, and let people think with their own minds instead of being slaves to your perceptions of what's good and wholesome. This describes christfags pretty good. Nicely summarised, anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:09:50 2008 No.375378 File: 284 KB, 1242x720, 1207076990966.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>374587 i lol'd

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:09:57 2008 No.375374 >>375363 Do you know Oyashiro-sama?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:10:47 2008 No.375384

>>375366
I disagree with your assertion that they're not the majority.

While I hate bringing up anything that sounds like LOOK AT ME I'M IMPORTANT, I have been getting into religious debates for twelve years now, and people who even acknowledge that there are religious scientists (without claiming them to be witch doctors of some kind) are definitely in the minority of those I've spoken to.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:10:53 2008 No.375385 >>375374 YES, HINAMIZAWA

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:11:09 2008 No.375388 >>375385 I KILL YOU, YOU KILL ME

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:11:34 2008 No.375391 >>375388 NO, HINAMIZAWA

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:11:34 2008 No.375392 > Practicing on dead bodies makes for better surgeons. Too bad primitive religious societies cannot accept that. Huh. It kinda makes me think of the whole stem cell "debate" in the US, while Europe and China march on towards a better tomorrow.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:11:49 2008 No.375395 >>375357 I wish you had left me (25) out of that post, I didn't endorse proselytisation and never have. But I do reserve the right to mock people's silly beliefs on anonymous internet message boards.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:14:24 2008 No.375420 >>375388 >>375374 I`m >>375363 , >>375385 and >>375391 here. Nicely done, buddy.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:14:26 2008 No.375418
File: 215 KB, 844x1236, 1207077266652.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I used to try to convince religious people that they were mistaken and that they would be better off as atheists.

But I've given up. Now I just smile and nod, then subtract 25 IQ points from my previous estimate about them.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:14:45 2008 No.375422

>>375384
Fine, I'll admit that people who positively deny the possibility of the existence of God (denial being an action, unlike not believing) are the majority of atheists if you accept that people who believe that they should follow every word of their respective holy books are the majority among religious people. Then we'll call it fair.

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 19:15:29 2008 No.375424 File: 61 KB, 653x600, 1207077329972.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Well gentlemen, Seems religion has won, hands down. As much as I'd love to continue this discussion, I have some waffles to attend to. Cheerio!

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:16:14 2008 No.375433 >>375424 >Seems religion has won lol autosuggestion

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:17:14 2008 No.375436

>>375422
Could it be that these people you met have already entertained the notion of GOD and have already made their decision prior to meeting you?
It could be like case law in the U.S. The prescident has been set. Now time to move on to more important things.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:19:41 2008 No.375449 File: 38 KB, 500x415, sionrohypnol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>375436 I have no idea what you're trying to say here so here's an image.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:20:14 2008 No.375458

>>375422
I don't actually think that's true, though. If you define "religious people" as those who mark themselves down on a census as having a religion, for instance, I wouldn't wager that half of them are devout in even the loosest sense, lacking a solid belief. More often, it's treated as if religion were some kind of ethnicity that can be inherited from one's parents.

So what is a "religious person"?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:20:14 2008 No.375460 >>375449 Read it again; it's not hard.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:20:24 2008 No.375455
File: 79 KB, 800x479, 1206877616522.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

If you religious people win, you have to go back to pre-Enlightenment ways of life. No iPods full of Bible verses, no DVDs of Jesus being whipped on the cross, etc etc. Just a lifetime of drudgery on a farm -- unless you get lucky and die of an easily-treatable bacterial infection.

Seriously, we live better than the Kings of France ever did. I rubbed up against some stupid plant on the Gold Coast, but with a few weeks of antibacterials, my leg was fine. In the age of religion, first I would have had an amputation (with maybe some strong local booze for painkillers) and then died a few months later anyways.

Guess which scenario I prefer?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:22:14 2008 No.375467 >>375455 If there is an "age of religion," we're still in it. Being religious doesn't mean denying scientific progress and it never has.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:22:14 2008 No.375468 >>375458 In this context, "religious person" would be shorthand for "person who believes in a god of some sort" since it's opposed to atheist.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:23:14 2008 No.375469

>>375458
These nominally religious people count. If you probe hard enough, you'll find they still have all sorts of crazy notions about heaven or angels.

I'm a bit of an exception myself. I had Richard-Dawkins-strength RAGE as a seven year old. It felt like the people at church were all lying, but they never came clean about it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:23:14 2008 No.375471 >>375460 I still have no idea who you're referring to by "people I met" and what they have to do with anything.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:24:14 2008 No.375473 >>375467 It sure does. See: Creationist Museum (the scientific shitstorm from last year) If claiming the earth was started in 4004 BC and that cavemen cavorted with dinosaurs isn't anti-science then what is?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:28:16 2008 No.375482

>>375471
If you find an atheist who is not willing to consider the existence of GOD, then I'm suggestion that that atheist once did give GOD some consideration but has already come to a decision and that decision is no. So that's why you think they're closed-minded. It's more like they have decided already.

I'm a 100% athetist, but if I saw something that completely defied all explanation, I'd be willing to consider alternatives. But until I get that, there ain't no god.

Incidentally, scientists in Sudbury, Ontario at Laurentian (Laurentien? sp?) University can generate religious experiences in pretty-much anybody using strong magnets placed strategically around the head.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:32:16 2008 No.375493 Watching this thread is like watching two blind, deaf idiots yelling at eachother. You're both retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:33:16 2008 No.375497 >>375493 Shut up, religious person.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:33:16 2008 No.375498

>>375482
But it's not a matter of just deciding if something exists or not. It's not like your decision affects the world in any way. Like all reasonable atheists, you can only conclude that it is very fucking unlikely that God exists, which it seems you already have.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:35:16 2008 No.375508 >>375493 but anonymous is the same person so fuck yeah

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:35:16 2008 No.375509

>>375498
> It's not like your decision affects the world in any way.
Yikes! Sure, you're a walking, talking human being like everyone else. But if you believe in that religious BS then your actions will be shaped by it. And despite the few little jems of lucidity that religion offers, you're more likely to make boneheaded decisions instead.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:35:16 2008 No.375510 >>375497 Nah, this fence-sitter's an agnostic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:36:16 2008 No.375513 >>375508 Exactly. The real secret is that I've been replying to my own posts for that last 40 posts or so.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:40:16 2008 No.375521 >>375513 Oh crap, the secret's out now!

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:40:16 2008 No.375525

>>375509
No, I'm saying that your deciding that God doesn't exist doesn't have any more effect on God's existence than someone deciding that God DOES exist. "Deciding" that God doesn't exist doesn't actually make it so, believing so is a position you take on faith!

Well, I do understand that "it's highly improbable that God exists" is a bit long and cumbersome. "God doesn't exist" is good enough, but taken completely literally it is a position of faith.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:44:16 2008 No.375535 >>375525 It's so unlikely that Atheists round down.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:45:16 2008 No.375542 >>375535 True and reasonable enough, just don't blame me when people start calling atheism a religion again.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:47:16 2008 No.375550

>>375542
It's funny how people are willing to believe with such ferver that god exists and that terrorists are going to kill their fat white asses in their suburban gated communities.

They should really be worried about automobile fatalities and clogged arteries due to Doritos.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:55:20 2008 No.375578 This thread went places.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:56:20 2008 No.375584 >>375424 Seems religion has won Except for all the unanswered questions that has been left unanswered by the same religious people that you said won. Avoiding questions =/= Answering questions

>>	Absolut Touhou Faget !3GqYIJ3Obs Tue Apr 1 20:06:20 2008 No.375639 >>375584 Mmm waffles. Anyways, I told you guys to proove science is superior with pics of hot scientists, robots, AI's etc. >>375203 But the only one I saw was that bone I threw. You guys are the ones avoiding posting.

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