How does this make you feel /jp? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8247319.stm

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Anonymous Wed Sep 9 21:56:29 2009 No.3338329 [Reply] [Original]

How does this make you feel /jp?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8247319.stm

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 21:57:29 2009 No.3338338 Feels good man. I support the death penalty

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 21:57:29 2009 No.3338341 >Prisoners on death row in Japan are being driven towards insanity by harsh conditions Why aren't they dead already?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 21:58:29 2009 No.3338344 >>3338341 It's more fun this way, like those pigs in factory farms going nuts.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:00:29 2009 No.3338349 >>3338344 Waste of taxpayers money.

>>	Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx Wed Sep 9 22:02:29 2009 No.3338356 >>3338349 Most things are a waste of tax payers money as far as I'm concerned.

BBC Propagnda Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:34:29 2009 No.3338533

Once again the BBC treats NGOs with agendas words as facts.

The BBC has fallen to the level of Fox news of the left along with the NYT. Not one FACT mentioned just speculation about a very secret process.

Sense when are the condemned entitled to know when the trap door on the Gallows will open?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:37:29 2009 No.3338545 I'm thinking prison rape VN fucking where?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:37:29 2009 No.3338546 >International human rights standards prohibit the imposition of the death penalty on the mentally ill. Why?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:39:29 2009 No.3338552 >>3338546 As promoted by the same NGO who BBC gave a free pass to.

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 22:40:29 2009 No.3338557 >>3338533 A HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP WITH AN AGENDA?!??! FUCK WE'RE ALL DOOMEDDDDDDDDDD

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:41:29 2009 No.3338558 >>3338546 Insane people cannot control their actions. Punishing them has no effect. Only appropriate treatment has a chance.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:42:29 2009 No.3338568 >In Japan, where criminal trials have a 99% conviction rate, the death penalty has wide public support. >99 JAPAN IS A BAKA

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:42:29 2009 No.3338570 >>3338558 >Punishing them has no effect. There's no need for an effect, they're supposed to die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:43:29 2009 No.3338573 >>3338545 It wouldn't be 4chan if we didn't have this guy to keep us focused on the important things.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:46:29 2009 No.3338580

>>3338558

Alligators and mountain lions don't know that killing people is a crime either. That doesn't mean we should break the bank training every one to maybe be able to operate in human society. We simply remove dangerous elements from society because, frankly, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, and nobody fucking cares if the little retard can learn the difference between right and wrong.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:48:29 2009 No.3338587
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>>3338570
If they've gone insane, then the person who committed the act is effectively dead, because they aren't in control anymore. It's just usually illegal to give people lobotomies rather than just killing them, no matter how good a deterrent a government made retard with a stamp on his head selling you cigarettes everyday might be.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:48:29 2009 No.3338588 >>3338558 They were sane when they were tried and found guilty or they never would have been tried.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:49:29 2009 No.3338592

>>In Japan, where criminal trials have a 99% conviction rate

See, this is the problem. Obviously there is something wrong with the trials in Japan if they are having 99% conviction rates.

But instead, these idiots flip out over how harsh the punishment is. The punishment isn't the problem, the one-sided monkey trials are! Why reduce the punishment on a convicted criminal? Because they might be innocent? MAYBE YOU SHOULD WORK ON YOUR LEGAL SYSTEM SO THEY DON'T GET CONVICTED IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE.

It's like saying we shouldn't make houses out of wood because they can catch fire and burn down when you douse them in gasoline and throw lit matches around inside while blindfolded. Fucking idiots.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:49:29 2009 No.3338593 >>3338557 Why do they get special access and treatment at the BBC?

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 22:50:29 2009 No.3338595

>>3338580
we should also put to death every little kid who has accidentally discharged a gun into someone, or actually let's just go all the way and kill everyone who does anything against the law, since they detract from our social goals

come the fuck on you dumb shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:51:29 2009 No.3338605 >>3338593 Because BBC is full of whiny liberals.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:51:29 2009 No.3338606 >>3338587 Oh, that simple, eh? Just a lobotomy and a stamp on a person who pulled an insanity plea and they'll be right back to being productive members of society? That doesn't sound like a fucking crock at all!

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:52:29 2009 No.3338610 BBC hates Japan and must die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:53:29 2009 No.3338613 >>3338605 >I believe everything Fox news says.

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 22:53:29 2009 No.3338614

>>3338592
they're both problems, but personally i think the treatment of prisoners is more important, because either way you're going to have criminals, might as well make it so that innocents can at least survive the experience. there are always going to be people who fall through the cracks

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:53:29 2009 No.3338616

>>3338595
You people always come up with some "accident" but to me, it really doesn't matter. If you murdered someone, no matter what state you were in, you need to be punished for it. It simply does not matter what the cause of the events was, that person is dead, period.

If it was an "accident" then it's just tough luck for you, just like it was tough luck for the guy that got killed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:53:29 2009 No.3338617 >>3338592 Actually, that rate is misleading. They actually fail so miserably to enforce their own laws that if they DO actually get someone, then he must have done something extreme AND screwed up pretty badly at getting away.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:54:29 2009 No.3338626

>>3338595

>we should also put to death every little kid

HOLY SHIT, WHO LET THE STRAWMAN OUT WHOA BUDDY YOU DON'T HAVE TO PACK IT ON STRONG LIKE THAT, JUST A LITTLE DAB WILL DO YA WITH THOSE THINGS YOU BETTER PUT THAT THING BACK IN ITS CONTAINER BEFORE IT SPOILS

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:55:29 2009 No.3338631 >>3338616 Killing another person is always murder, even in self defense. Japan should stop murdering it's citizens.

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 22:56:46 2009 No.3338634 [DELETED]

>>3338616
uh yeah you should be punished for it but there are always going to be mistakes in the justice system

the death penalty is something that can't be corrected, and in order to make sure things are fair pretty much everything needs to have a self correcting or reversible mechanism

treating your prisoners like shit to the point they go insane isn't exactly reversable

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 22:59:29 2009 No.3338648 >>3338631 No it is not. Murder has a legal definition. capital punishment is not murder. Japn has it right.

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 22:59:29 2009 No.3338649

>>3338616
uh yeah you should be punished for it but there are always going to be mistakes in the justice system

the death penalty is something that can't be corrected, and in order to make sure things are fair pretty much everything needs to have a self correcting or reversible mechanism

treating your prisoners like shit to the point they go insane isn't exactly reversible either

also saying "tough luck" about pretty much any aspect of society is probably the worst/dumbest fucking attitude, i hope somewhere in life you get in a position of "tough luck" so you can understand this

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:00:29 2009 No.3338658

>>3338595

Ignoring the massive strawman, children are the responsibility of their caretakers, normally their parents. When children commit crimes, their legal guardians are the ones to be held responsible for damages and legal punishment.

Depending on the age of the child, rehab may be an option, or it may not be. A toddler found a loaded weapon in an easily accessible place and killed someone with it? Easy candidate for adoption by more responsible parents. A teenager whose single father brings home the victims of his serial murdering sprees so he and his kid can take turns chopping them up and eating the bodies? Probably a tad too deeply warped to ever be a member of human society.

Sometimes you have to accept with humility that you are not a god, and that there are going to be times when you will have to cut your losses for the greater good. Just because it's sad and you don't want to do it doesn't mean it's okay not to.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:01:29 2009 No.3338662 >>3338649 It is impossible to take you seriously after your strawman post. You sound like a teenage wannabe activist.

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:02:29 2009 No.3338665 >>3338626 i think you need to read >>3338580 again

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:02:29 2009 No.3338670

>sound logical argument
>LOL YOU WOULDNT PUT YOUR KIDS TO DEATH FOR SHITTING ON YOUR BED

Hm... Reminds me a little of something

>Sound logical argument
>LOL IF GAYS GET MARRIED THEN PEOPLE WILL MARRY THEIR GOLDFISH AND JOHN DEERE TRACTORS AND SOCIETY WILL FALL APART

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:03:29 2009 No.3338671 >>3338649 Protip: The USA does exactly the same things in federal supermax prisons. Most of those people are not facing capital punishment either. I am against the death penalty but if you have on carry it out swiftly and impartially.

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:07:29 2009 No.3338683 >>3338671 it still doesn't make it right.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:08:29 2009 No.3338690

>>3338665

That was my post, you fucking idiot. The point was that an inability to understand a law does not excuse one from punishment for breaking it.

That's in the US law, by the way. It's one of the first things they teach you when you're going for a degree in it. Ignorance is not an excuse. The reason is obvious: if ignorance could be used to excuse someone from punishment for committing a crime, everyone would just say they didn't know there was a law against anything they did, and it would be exceedingly difficult to prove that they did, which would be a huge waste of time for everyone in the legal system.

That, and it's every citizen's duty to be aware of the laws of the state he pays his fucking taxes to. Anyone who can't understand laws has no place in that government's society, for obvious reasons.

The only reason you think any differently is because you were raised a total pussy in a spoiled society where everyone raised you on Disney morals where everything is black and white.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:09:29 2009 No.3338692 File: 1006 KB, 200x150, 1232469433394.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >comparing murder/other 'death penalty' crimes to someone who is going through "tough luck" hard times

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:09:29 2009 No.3338695 >>3338683 You know who decides what right and wrong is? Not you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:11:29 2009 No.3338700 >>3338692 Remember when we used to use green text and a reaction image to directly quote something idiotic someone said? When we didn't try to use it like it was some show-stopping, argument-winning cannon shell? Those were good days.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:12:29 2009 No.3338704
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>That, and it's every citizen's duty to be aware of the laws of the state he pays his fucking taxes to.

Or chooses not to pay, if you're a raging bad ass like Henry David Thoreau.

And no, that didn't have a point

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:14:29 2009 No.3338720 Do they still execute embezzlers and tax dodgers by guillotine?

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:18:29 2009 No.3338737

>>3338690
i can't fucking believe where you're going with this

you're talking all of this shit about ignorance of the law like it means something, but by basically saying all of this bullshit you're suggesting that those mountain lions should be under due process of law as well, since we should obviously treat every single being on the planet exactly the same

since i know the obvious argument to bounce back against this is "RACISM/SEXISM!!!", you can only prove to treat someone or something differently if you can prove that they are substantially different as compared to a fully functioning human being. since we can't find substantial differences as far as interpreting social code/law and places in society between different races/genders, we treat them equally.

but uh, as far as animals/children/the mentally disabled go, i'd hope you would agree that there are some pretty big differences! (please don't make me elaborate)

but again, you're kinda going everywhere and nowhere with all of this. all of this is irrelevant to the injustice of these people going insane/the death penalty itself

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:19:29 2009 No.3338739 >>3338670 >implying there's nothing wrong with gays

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:22:29 2009 No.3338758

>>3338695
okay, it doesn't mean it's right (from a western position that the criminal justice system (and pretty much any governing system) should have reversible and self correcting mechanisms, emulating the only form of constructed truth that we know of, the scientific method).

happy?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:23:29 2009 No.3338771 Japan is lucky it doesn't have to many negros We are kind of fucked here with them. A death penalty needs to be swift and sure or it needs to be abolished. No hope of that here so it needs to be abolished.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:25:29 2009 No.3338787 >>3338737 Are you lost, kid? It looks like your post was meant for the youtube comments section, but accidentally wound up on 4chan.

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:26:29 2009 No.3338791 >>3338787 admitting defeat already?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:27:29 2009 No.3338795 Not my fucking problem. I don't plan on doing any stupid shit that would put me there. They probably deserve it.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:31:29 2009 No.3338821

>>3338758
>>3338737

HI MY NAME IS RUN ON SENTENCE DID I EVER TELL YOU ABOUT THE TIME JANET WAS SUCH A BITCH OH MAN I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE GET CATTY LIKE THE WAITRESS IN THAT RESTAURANT WASN'T THAT FOOD WAY TOO SPICY I THOUGHT IT WAS AND THE MEAT WAS UNDERCOOKED BUT I DON'T NORMALLY EAT MEAT JUST CHICKEN MOST OF THE TIME DID YOU KNOW HOW THEY TREAT CHICKENS IT'S JUST AWFUL THEY CUT OFF THEIR LEGS AND BEAKS BUT CHIK FIL A ONLY USES WELL TREATED CHICKENS I THINK I READ IT SOMEWHERE AND THEY'RE CLOSED ON SUNDAYS I HATE THAT BECAUSE I WANT TO GO EAT FROM THERE ON SUNDAY BECAUSE I DON'T GO TO CHURCH BECAUSE GOD IS STUPID DON'T YOU THINK SO HOW CAN YOU WORSHIP AN INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY THAT'S LIKE A SPAGHETTI MONSTER LOL ANYWAY YOU'RE STUPID AND LAWS SHOULD WORK LIKE I THINK THEY SHOULD BECAUSE THEY SHOULD

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:32:29 2009 No.3338827 >>3338821 hi nigger welcome to the internet

>>	CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM Wed Sep 9 23:32:29 2009 No.3338828 Koof isn't even a real tripfag, just ignore him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:33:29 2009 No.3338832 >>3338821 you have mastered Chinese and Japanese I see.

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:34:29 2009 No.3338836 >>3338828 supreme victory

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:34:29 2009 No.3338839

>since we should obviously treat every single being on the planet exactly the same
Strawman, laws apply to people practically by definition; mountain lions aren't people, are not intelligent, and cannot understand/follow the law.

>we treat them equally.
Plenty of legal differences between genders.

>all of this is irrelevant to the injustice of these people going insane/the death penalty itself
Subjective.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:34:29 2009 No.3338842 >>3338827 You are underage and you need to go back to /b/ where you belong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:35:29 2009 No.3338845 >>3338828 I see a Name asnd a Tripcode. I would say he is another useless Tripfag just like you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:35:29 2009 No.3338847 File: 236 KB, 525x594, 124480214469.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3338533 > Sense when

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:35:29 2009 No.3338853 I don't see any problem with death penalty. Also I don't see why retard should be exempted from death penalty. Not being aware of your action is not an excuse in itself.

>>	CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM Wed Sep 9 23:36:29 2009 No.3338865 >>3338845 "asnd" you should head on back to /b/ along with koof, /jp/ doesn't give a shit about me don't try to be the 'cool kid' who hates tripfags.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:37:29 2009 No.3338870 >>3338853 >Not being aware of your action is not an excuse in itself. Mens rea

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:38:29 2009 No.3338874

>>3338853

In fact it's all the more reason the subject must be removed from society.

And why should that society allow something that will never be useful to it sponge time and effort from it for their own "rehabilitation"?

How is that fair to the people who don't commit crimes and don't demand special treatment?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:38:29 2009 No.3338875 >>3338865 So you choose to be second class. Fuck /b/. Don't go there.

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:40:29 2009 No.3338888

>>3338839
>Strawman, laws apply to people practically by definition; mountain lions aren't people, are not intelligent, and cannot understand/follow the law.
fucking hell. THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO PROVE. NEITHER EXACTLY CAN KIDS/THE MENTALLY DISABLED.

>Plenty of legal differences between genders.
for things that are gender specific (usually involving sex or intoxication), yes, but across the board the point is to try to keep it so that they're accountable on levels that make sense for that specific case

>Subjective
no shit. it's what we should be debating, not these irrelevancies.

>>3338842
can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen baby. real talk.

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:43:29 2009 No.3338899 >>3338865 whatever you say

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:43:29 2009 No.3338904

>>3338888
>fucking hell. THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO PROVE. NEITHER EXACTLY CAN KIDS/THE MENTALLY DISABLED.
I still don't see your point. Those on death row committed crimes while in good mental health. Being retarded/handicapped NOW is irrelevant and it doesn't excuse them from their sentence.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:44:29 2009 No.3338907 >>3338888 In a few years you'll look back on your behavior in these threads with complete and utter shame.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:46:29 2009 No.3338922 >>3338888 >fucking hell. THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO PROVE. NEITHER EXACTLY CAN KIDS/THE MENTALLY DISABLED. And we kill the lion/bear/insert dangerous animal here if they attack a human.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:47:29 2009 No.3338927

How does Amnesty get from "Japan signed a Convention prohibiting it from imposing capital punishment on the insane" to "Being on death row makes you crazy, and you can't execute crazy people"? The first of those contentions is extremely dubious, and the latter is completely irrelevant.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:48:29 2009 No.3338932 God, this discussion thread is confusing can't tell who is supporting what, so let me get this straight, do you guys approve or disapprove on having mentally ill deathrow inmates should still be executed.

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Wed Sep 9 23:48:29 2009 No.3338936

>>3338904
i agree, and i also agree that it's irrelevant to these cases. but the point was brought up somewhere and i felt the need to go after it.

again, if punishment/treatment isn't reversible, it's trying to do something too great from limited amount of information. if the goal is "get this person out of society", then what's wrong with just humanely incarcerating the person for life? it's been proven time and time again that it's generally cheaper to do so anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:48:29 2009 No.3338941 >>3338922 If you keep challenging his heavily indoctrinated disney beliefs he's going to snap and then it will be illegal to execute him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:50:29 2009 No.3338952 >>3338932 Dangerous people who kill or attempt to kill others should be execute, in my opinion. Sanity is irrelevant. Arteries don't care if the person holding the knife that severed them was insane. They still bleed exactly the same.

Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:51:29 2009 No.3338962

>>3338936
Prison time is an absolutely irreversible loss to the incarcerated. You can't gain back time.

The difference is a matter of degree, not kind.

Also: I don't see where you get your "too limited information" from. You seem convinced that everyone on Death Row is wrongly accused. This has happened only a few times.
Sorry, but "it's irreversible" isn't an adequate challenge to the Death Penalty, because so are most other punishments

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:51:29 2009 No.3338964 >>3338932 Anonymous approve killing retard. Koof is against it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:53:29 2009 No.3338976 File: 801 B, 80x80, 102.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3338952

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 9 23:55:29 2009 No.3338987 File: 115 KB, 600x613, 1239191243796.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3338976

Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Thu Sep 10 00:10:29 2009 No.3339077

>>3338962
>Prison time is an absolutely irreversible loss to the incarcerated. You can't gain back time.
I'm aware of this. It's more reversible than death. Why would you choose the more flawed punishment?

>everybody on Death Row is wrongly accused
No, I don't think everybody in Death Row is wrongly accused. But there's already a significant number of people who have been proven innocent. Since 1973, 135 people have been freed on Death Row in the United States. There have been 1171 executions within that time frame, and ~3000 people sit on death row. This is also ignoring that perhaps people can maybe still be worthwhile people in prison (Unabomber comes to mind), but that's a totally different argument.

Again, I know the justice system is flawed (and it always will be) but you can't just go head first and go "WELP IT ISN'T PERFECT SO LET'S JUST GO AHEAD AND KILL THEM". It just doesn't make sense.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:19:29 2009 No.3339126

This is the way I see it.
As far as the death penalty goes, what gives you or anyone the right to take away someone else's life away?
Murder is murder. Killing someone else as punishment for that person killing someone isn't justice. It's only adding to the fire.
I am against the death penalty.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:20:29 2009 No.3339131 >>3339077 Enjoy governing Candy Land.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:23:29 2009 No.3339146 >>3339126 I suppose you're a pacifist and a vegetarian too?

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Thu Sep 10 00:26:29 2009 No.3339161 >>3339131 don't kid yourself. think the scientific revolution only impacted the sciences?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:28:29 2009 No.3339170 >>3339146 No, I just stick to common sense. The point of punishment is to teach a lesson and reinforce positive behavior. Killing them won't do that. In fact, it takes away that said opportunity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:29:29 2009 No.3339175 >>3339170 Have you ever been to a prison? The people in there aren't going to learn a god damn thing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:29:29 2009 No.3339177 >>3339161 This is entirely a philosophical question Leaning on the pillar of science to make yourself look more credible is weak at best.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:30:29 2009 No.3339185 >>3339170 >The point of punishment is to teach a lesson and reinforce positive behavior. This is so full of smiling faces and bubble gum that it makes me sick. ITT: we try to equate society with a kindergarten classroom

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:35:29 2009 No.3339214

>>3339175
Actually, I have. No, I didn't commit any crimes, I was taking a course on human behavior. There is a chance for them, and I'm not saying this to make you look bad. Everything I saw was the result of bad parenting, bad luck, and a history of violent events, drug abuse, and anger managment problems. All of these can be fixed with the proper care.

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Thu Sep 10 00:36:29 2009 No.3339220 >>3339177 no stupid, it's what most aspects of western government(including criminal justice systems) are based upon. as much as you guys say "CANDYLAND" or "DISNEY!!" it doesn't fucking mean anything.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:36:29 2009 No.3339221

>>3339170

If you stuck to common sense, it would dawn upon you that if someone is dead, there's no real need to them to be rehabilitated anymore, is there? In the long run, lives just aren't worth that much. Further, There's a lot of arguments for the death penalty, mainly the point that it's the "Ultimate deterrent".

If you wanted to make a point, you should be arguing on a more stable ground than morality. Take for instance, that it's actually more cost effective to just give people life in prison than it is to put them on death row and let them make constant appeals till they get the injection, all using state-funded lawyers, and taking up court-rooms that are already congested.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:39:29 2009 No.3339244 >>3339214 I have toured a prison and I studied Criminal Justice focusing on Law Enforcement and Corrections in college. These people don't want help, nor are they attempting to better themselves.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:41:29 2009 No.3339255

>>3339221
You seem like the person who doesn't value human life.
The fact that you care more about money than saving human lives makes you have the corrupt kind of morality that drives the country down.
>"just lock' em up and kill em. We don't need to teach them if they're dead. It saves money anyway.
Is basically what you said.

You should be ashamed.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:43:29 2009 No.3339269

>>3339244
>These people don't want help, nor are they attempting to better themselves.

Going to have to disagree to a point here. Oft, the Criminal Justice system merely aims to "worsen" these people.

Case in point: California marijuana laws.
At the moment, the California prison system is so overcrowded that it's being reviewed federally as an unconstitutional system.
Young, nonviolent drug offenders whose only crime is enjoying themselves on the weekend are thrown into violent, predatory jail systems.

They don't come out nonviolent offenders
They come out murderers, future murderers, or dead.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:46:29 2009 No.3339277

>>3339244
well, I have too.
I can safely say that they don't want help because they think they can't be helped, and convince themselves they are better off without it anyway. This with years of builded violence and crimes, makes it hard to undo, but not impossible.

The death penalty should only be reinforced on people who ultimately deserve it, and have absolutely no way of being turned around. If there is a possible future for them, then by no means am I in favor of it.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 00:56:29 2009 No.3339316

>>3339255

Turning my argument into a straw-man isn't helping your case, bro. I'm just reflecting the overwhelming standard opinion. That the status quo is fine, and that the general populace is apathetic. Appeals to morality won't win people over, so it would be wise to bring other issues to light.

As far as morality is concerned, in order to be sentenced to death you have to be proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" for a truly heinous crime by a jury of their peers. Then a judge needs to make the call on if the crime has been so heinous or frequent that their life must be taken. Further this, years are allowed for constant appeals, in which other people will need to dismiss, agreeing to condemn the person as well.

The current system is imperfect, but to suggest it is morally bankrupt is an outright lie.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:00:29 2009 No.3339339 >>3339255 Life is cheap and not at all valuable. This is a difficult concept for you to accept, because you were raised on disney land black and white morality.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:02:29 2009 No.3339347

There is no fair way to to carry out the death penalty, Here it is just too expensive to carry it out, pure economics.

Repeal the death penalty, Comute them all to life at hard labor with no parole.

>>3339269
California prison are so over crowded that they are violating peoples basic human rights. These are rights even prisoners who have limited rights by law have.

A more rational and CHEAPER means to deal with these stupid fucks is needed. I am thinking work camps that are run like boot camp forever may be the answer since these assholes can't follow the rules they need to be forced to follow them.

What works for Japan will not work here.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:04:29 2009 No.3339356 >>3339339 No more than likely they are not Asian. It seems only Asians believe this.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:08:29 2009 No.3339373

>>3339316
I'm not saying it is, but given what was said earlier, it was.
What you just said now, about the judge the jury and the years of appeals, makes it more just, but as you also said, imperfect.

I try to uphold morality while supporting justice. I believe killing people is wrong, and if the justice system senselessly kill people, they are contradicting the very purpose of the punishment. That's my belief.

If however, the system proves they are ultimately deserving of death, then so be it.

As far as MY morality goes, I try to see if the person can be changed, before giving up hope on them.
But that's just me. I'm out, goodnight.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:10:29 2009 No.3339383

>>3339339
What? You're accusing other people of "black and white" morality when you nonchalantly condemn the lives of people as cheap? And then you boil down the guy's morality into LOL DISNEY, which is not at all "black and white". You must be too busy being COOL AND EDGY with your head stuck up your own cynical ass to give a fuck about people.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:13:29 2009 No.3339397

>>3339356

Human life can be made by a sloppy teenage fuck and nine months of feeding the girl.

The only kind of people who value life excessively are spoiled middle class folks. Indoctrination and ad nauseum are the only things they use to support this opinion when challenged on it.

I can understand why. Acknowledging life as anything but priceless shakes the foundation of a great deal of laws made to protect peoples' lives and "rights."

Including laws that use capital punishment as a deterrent to homicide and a means to remove homicidal members from society.

The world ain't black and white.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:14:29 2009 No.3339403
File: 769 KB, 2849x3474, 1229823377057.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>I am thinking work camps that are run like boot camp forever may be the answer since these assholes can't follow the rules they need to be forced to follow them.
>implying any kind of incarceration for a drug use offense like smoking entirely harmless marijuana is at all justifiable

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:15:29 2009 No.3339410

>>3339339

Before I go, I'd just like to say one last thing; I've never been to Disney. I have morals, and excuse me go valuing human life. I'm only upholding my instinct for the survival and survival of the human race.

Let me point out one thing, though. It's people who DON'T value those lives, and who selflishly care more about money or other possessions, that have the same thinking concept as those criminals who are put in prison for murder.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:20:29 2009 No.3339443 >>3339403 Did I say I agree with putting everyday dopers in jail? If they steal to support their habit I can see it otherwise none of my or the laws business.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:22:29 2009 No.3339458

I am not opposed to capital punishment but chiefly on the grounds that, in my opinion, it is not the job of the taxpayers to pay for the shelter, food, and therapy of convicted criminals.

Forced labor also appeals to me for this reason. Since the main complaint people seem to have about capital punishment is about the issue of life and death, I think putting prisoners to work is a fair compromise. I like the thought of prison-factories.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:23:29 2009 No.3339464

Lots of the folks in California prisons are gang bangers. Work camps is all they are good for. Put them on shitty public works projects that require tons of manual labor. These fuckers are sucking up 10 Billion dollars of cash every year. We ought to recoup some of that via their labor.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:24:29 2009 No.3339469 >>3339443 and yet, the law makes it its business. That's why one should design punishments with the fact in mind that the law isn't always (and often isn't) right.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:28:29 2009 No.3339487 >>3339469 Don't vote for "law and order" assholes then. I quit voting for what I don't want.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:28:29 2009 No.3339490 File: 64 KB, 598x436, FatGothKid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3339339 >Life is cheap and not at all valuable. This is a difficult concept for you to accept, because you were raised on disney land black and white morality.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:29:29 2009 No.3339494 >>3339469 >That's why one should design punishments with the fact in mind that the law isn't always (and often isn't) right. That's an idiotic notion. It sounds more like the policy of a passive aggressive spouse than an organized government.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:32:29 2009 No.3339513 >>3339490 Seems like every time someone wants to attack my nihilist views, the favorite tactic is to point out that I have nihilist views.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:33:29 2009 No.3339518 >>3339458 Yes, I agree. >>3339464 Having them make US money for a change? I like this idea... Someone ought to put it in action. Okay, night'. I really need some sleep.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:38:29 2009 No.3339542

>>3339518

The problem is that for anything like that to happen, the government would have to run it.

The US government once seized a brothel in Nevada from its tax evading owners. They promptly ran it into the ground and had to get rid of it.

The government can't even figure out how to keep a goddamned brothel in the black.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:38:29 2009 No.3339543

>>3339316
I'm not that guy, buuuuuut...

Appeals to popularity and the status quo don't work much either. Whether it perks the interest of people or not, you've avoided the question of "Is condemning other human beings acceptable?". There's no need for a red herring about how effective the various arguments are.

In your second paragraph, you seem to confuse morality with "process". Making it hard to sentence a person to death doesn't strictly make the death penalty moral as the act is still condoned.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:39:29 2009 No.3339546 >>3339513 Well apparently you're not enough of a nihilist to realize the pointlessness of your postings.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:49:29 2009 No.3339602 >>3339546 We're all here to piss away our time uselessly.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:50:29 2009 No.3339608

>>3339543
>>you've avoided the question of "Is condemning other human beings acceptable?"

I directly said that I reflect the sentiment that the status quo is fine, if perhaps a bit imperfect. If you happen to be lacking in intelligence, I'll spell out what this implies. "Sometimes.".

Further, Neither did I imply that the process involved in the death penalty makes it moral. I simply said that to call it morally bankrupt is an outright lie. If you happened to miss what I implied there as well, it was another statement regarding the populace's general view(and my own). The implication is that being that in order for such an act to come to be, many must decide in unison that it is morally just. The fact that people can come to consensus to have a person die in the first place reflects that it is not an isolated incident that some people believe the death penalty can be moral and just.

Finally, to help clear things up for you if you can't read subtext, I speak of the effectiveness of arguments because I admit that the current system is imperfect. In order for a resolution for this to come about, alternatives must be proposed. However, no one will listen to someone trying to push their morals onto someone else.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:51:29 2009 No.3339614

>>3339542
Whee, anecdotes. I can do it too. Set your house on fire and see who saves your smoldering ass.

>>3339397
I love how you fit people into very narrowly-defined and exclusive groups and yet tack on "The world ain't black and white." right afterwords as if you wouldn't look like a self-defeating retard. Humans are empathic animals and that's the primary source of our morality. The Golden Rule applies regardless of the biological ease with which life is born. I do hope you don't expect others to value your life, lest you become a hypocrite.

Why is /jp/ so infested with Nihilists and Libertarians? Or is it just this thread that attracted them here?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 01:59:29 2009 No.3339683 I feel like Japan will say "Yes, you're right" to the U.N. and then continue business as usual with a different label if necessary.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 02:01:29 2009 No.3339692 >>3339614 I think you just like parading yourself as the champion who triumphantly defeats the big meanie head who keeps saying mean things.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 02:05:29 2009 No.3339712 >>3339683 Exactly like China, Korea, and most East Asian countries do and will. I can't stand Amnesia International so I take everything they say with a truck load of salt. They have been caught out in lies before and are drama queens mostly.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 02:13:29 2009 No.3339748

>>3339608
Yes, I'm dreadfully sorry that I couldn't understand the subtext and hidden (or non-) implications in your extensive 3-4 sentences of actual argument.

Saying "As far as morality is concerned," and then mentioning how difficult it is to sentence someone tends to make people like me think that you are defending capital punishment by mentioning all the safeguards associated with it. I apologize again for not seeing an empty ad populum and relativist argument instead.

Why does democracy make killing somebody a moral act? Morality does have a certain degree of "absolutedness" to it and I would like to think ending a life is a big "no-no" regardless of circumstance. The political makeup of the jury draw-pool and even the entire population cannot overturn that.

>In order for a resolution for this to come about, alternatives must be proposed.
What the hell does that mean? Kill criminals half-way?

>>3339692
Well, I am more than self-righteous enough to believe that, but you being a gigantic unemphatic dick is a much more pressing issue.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 02:17:29 2009 No.3339760

>>3339748
>What the hell does that mean? Kill criminals half-way?

No, it means to find a way to kill people without killing genuinely salvageable people.

>Why does democracy make killing somebody a moral act?

Because man created morality. Therefore man dictates it's terms. Morality is subjective, so the only way to make something universally moral is by democracy.

I don't know if I can make this any simpler, so you'll have to live with this. To put it bluntly, he understood this, so why don't you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 02:27:29 2009 No.3339801 >>3339748 I can think of an issue I'd rather press. In my pants. It's my penis.

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 02:39:29 2009 No.3339838

>>3339760
>No, it means to find a way to kill people without killing genuinely salvageable people.
You're still killing people, but shrunk the pool of kill-ees by adding a very vague and subjective additional clause. That's hardly an alternative. My alternative is life sentences instead, possibly with the addition of humane labor as some form of weak redemption, not to appease taxpayers. I believe in punishment, but not capital punishment.

>Morality is subjective, so the only way to make something universally moral is by democracy.
Like I said, some aspects of morality aren't relative. "Killing people is bad" should not be something up for interpretation. "Is sodomy okay?" might be, but something so fundamental has to remain absolute. Morality needs to be flexible, but not THAT flexible or it becomes some arbitrary construct shaped by whims rather than genuine human empathy and altruism.

I do understand the stuff you guys are saying, but I reject them. That's a very important difference.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 10 02:45:29 2009 No.3339863 sup athens

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 02:51:29 2009 No.3339874

>>3339838
>Like I said, some aspects of morality aren't relative. "Killing people is bad" should not be something up for interpretation. "Is sodomy okay?" might be, but something so fundamental has to remain absolute. Morality needs to be flexible, but not THAT flexible or it becomes some arbitrary construct shaped by whims rather than genuine human empathy and altruism.

All of morality is up to interpretation. Why the fuck do you think bullshit like Nihilism exists? Morality shouldn't be too flexible? Well, I'm afraid the only way you'll be able to determine how flexible it is to rule the world and impose yourself.

Just because you believe your morals are right doesn't mean everyone else does. They may seem obvious and unquestionable to you, but someone will always find something to question.

Want an example? Here's a popular one. No one should ever be killed? What about people born with Psychopathy? It's beyond capability to cure them. At their very base they lack the very sense of morality we are speaking of. They will always be a danger to themselves and others, captivity or not. Is it not just more humane to terminate their lives than to keep them locked in complete isolation for everyone's safety? It's not something they can control, so surely it's not moral to just lock them up for all of eternity?

Anonymous Thu Sep 10 03:09:29 2009 No.3339916

>>3339874
Ideally, I would hope that "killing people is bad" would be universal, but you are right, it is expecting far too much. Maybe I'm putting too much faith into human commonality. Anyways, I need time to put more thought into this; admittedly, I've never pondered morality all too much. I have a vague idea on providing a concrete basis for a moral universalism with a touch of absolutism, but that's it. You can chalk this up as a win for yourself, though I don't think anyone thought of this as a contest. I'll acquiesce for now until I do a bit more armchair philosophizing.

As for the psychopathy, I'd go with the lesser evil of imprisonment in an asylum, although if psychopaths truly share no values with normal people, I wonder if imprisonment can be seen as punishment at all. Of course, you can turn that argument back on me too (ie do they see death as "bad"), leading the issue into a state of total ambiguity.

Fuck it, I'm going to bed. Insults and trolling aside, arguing was a bit fun.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 11 13:34:42 2009 No.3339916,1 These threads help me restore a little faith in /jp/.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 11 13:57:44 2009 No.3339916,2 >>3339916,1 The fuck? These are as bad as Dawson and Umineko spam

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 11 17:28:53 2009 No.3339916,3 >>3339916,2 I knew some smartass would make such a comment. No, aside from Koof's faggotry this was a pretty nice read. Better than LOOK AT THAT BAKA bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 11 17:47:24 2009 No.3339916,4 >>3339916,1 >>These threads help me restore a little faith in /jp/. >>How does this make you feel /jp? Seriously?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 11 21:31:37 2009 No.3339916,5 >>3339916,4 Some people have literally no faith in /jp/ to hold a decent conversation anymore.

Anonymous Fri Sep 11 21:45:47 2009 No.3339916,6 [INTERNAL]

A thread that disgusts me, from what I saw after scanning the replies. Putting Koof aside, very little of the discussion had anything to do with the article in the OP post.

Or rather, very little of the discussion has anything to do with Japan. A bunch of talk about personal feelings over the death penalty, but mostly people making ad hominem logical fallacies (all these accusations that people have "Disney morals", and then Anonymous people trying to defend themselves!).

I guess we should be thankful it mostly stayed out of old-/n/ territory (which is what I expected), but I hardly see this as a good read. Unless, well, you think religion threads are good reads.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 12 11:35:22 2009 No.3339916,7 >>3339916,6 Sounds to me like you're one of those people against the death penalty and don't like the outcome of the discussion. That, or you prefer every topic in /jp/ to be about VNs or other garbage.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 12 11:48:12 2009 No.3339916,8 >>3339916,7 >That, or you prefer every topic in /jp/ to be about VNs or other garbage. Heaven forbid we use a board for its intended purpose, right? You have a whole board to talk about shit like this, it's called /r9k/.

Anonymous Sat Sep 12 12:02:37 2009 No.3339916,9 [INTERNAL]

>>3339916,8
I knew you'd say that. You're so predictable.

Yeah, this board is about /jp/ related stuff. The original topic was about Japan and the death penalty, so it was related. It later developed into a discussion about the pros and cons of the death penalty in general. This is a normal development of a discussion. moot has said before that what he wants on 4chan is for discussions to be able to meander, that there's not some mod barging in in the middle of the discussion "HEY WE WERE TALKING ABOUT <X>, GET BACK ON TOPIC OR I BAN YOU" If you don't like that about 4chan, feel free to leave, because the place is obviously not meant for you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 12 12:07:00 2009 No.3339916,10 >>3339916,9 >The original topic was about Japan That's the problem. >so it was related Hoho. Also >You're so predictable. >>3339916,8 was my first post in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 12 12:09:01 2009 No.3339916,11 >>3339916,9 What's that? Using the same lame excuses that mongrels use to post /v/ and /a/ shit here because they can't handle the heat of said boards? Son, I'm disappoint.

Anonymous Mon Sep 14 02:11:19 2009 No.3339916,12 [INTERNAL]

>>3339916,10
>>The original topic was about Japan
>That's the problem.
I don't get that.

>>3339916,11
I'm not saying you should post anything unrelated to the board topic in /jp/ (but what's the board topic there, really?) I'm just saying if the discussion (which started when it was still Japan-related) diverges into something not totally related, it shouldn't always be seen as a problem ('death penalty in Japan' -> 'death penalty in general' is okay, 'look at that baka' -> dawson spam... well, you get the idea).

That's all.

>>	Sakura Mon Sep 14 03:07:17 2009 No.3339916,13 >>3339916,12 /jp/ wasn't made to discuss things like the death penalty in Japan. It was made to discuss doujin stuff, VNs, etc.

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