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33028394 No.33028394 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

I just finished reading this this morning, what did you think of it?

I thought some of the articles and pictures were really charming, the tabloid set up is fun and I can't believe Yoshika is dead. The political allegories and commentary was a little heavy handed though, and more prominent than I expected, and now 4 years later already feels dated and old.

I don't understand how the pin ups made it into the book though. Also there were touhous that weren't in the book that I wish were and could have fun tabloid articles written about of.

Please note before you post this thread isn't about politics, but the book, which can include its commentary of politics. Please do not mix the two up and post off topic things, thank you.

>> No.33028784

Some of the political stuff was kind of hit or miss, like with certain topics like fake news it's intertwined with the canon of Touhou well since Aya is known to take pictures and blow a topic way out of proportion just to sell more papers, but some like the Miko human village president thing was silly was pretty cringe. I'm sure ZUN had made references to other political happenings that were Japanese in origin that I didn't even notice and probably even cringier to them. You can blend some real world commentary into fiction but I think it has to make sense in the fictional world you set up and be subtle enough that it won't come off as "Hey fellow humans how do you do" yknow? It's kinda difficult to talk about this book without going too hard about politics as a whole...
With that out of the way, I do wish ZUN took these opprotunities he has with the books and use it to write more about smaller characters instead of Yukari or other bigger characters, give me more tabloids like Seiran and Ringo please. The ads were pretty cute too. That's about it.

>> No.33028812

it's pretty much the only thing Raiko has ever appeared in since DDC, so I like it for that
I think ZUN should have axed most of the gravure pictures, maybe just made it one singular group shot and then the talk that follows it, and then he could have perhaps fit another interview or two in, since they're where you really get to see a lot of the inner thoughts on characters

>> No.33029459

>>33028784
>Miko human village president thing
It also showed that ZUN doesn't really know anything about taoism.

>> No.33029528
File: 2.49 MB, 2480x3507, 88bf0666eae50d1ae0c42513fb32c376.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
33029528

>>33029459
But his taoists are cute!

>> No.33029553

>>33029528
True, but it would be even better if they were accurate.

>> No.33031048
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33031048

>>33029553
They may not be accurate, but they are wicked!

>> No.33036638

>>33029528
That's besides the fact.
A purple sky might look nice, but it's still wrong.

>> No.33036898

I'll say this much about the political stuff, hit or miss and heavy-handed as it was it was pretty tolerable compared to what you'd see westerners put in their stuff.

On the whole though, it's honestly not too bad. Dated quickly sure, but it was still an alright read.

>> No.33037504

>>33028394
>>33028812
>I don't understand how the pin ups made it into the book though
The problem of the pin ups is not the sexyness, but the mediocre art. There's like a billion god tier Touhou fan artists and ZUN picked below average mediocrity.

>> No.33041847

>>33036898
I think the interview with Hecatia is what really pushes it over the edge for me. It feels like a Brian Griffin bit with how preachy and obvious it is. Also it baffles me how Hecatia talks about the benefits of letting people in and how it's a plus, then right after talks about how Lunarians are evil parasites who will kill Gensokyo. It's just so strange I don't know if it waa intentional

>> No.33049411
File: 111 KB, 270x170, a689d43b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
33049411

>>33028812
AoCF?

>> No.33049492

>>33041847
It feels like with every new print work ZUN gets more bold with making his characters spew his takes (Sumireko), and like I said before you can put those in your work but have it make sense with the setting. Gensokyo already is crowded as is with the amount of yokai competing for control over the human village (outright or not), so to have another character say "Actually this is fine please bring more yokai it's so great look at the pros" is just...like did he forget what he wrote before? I know he uses unreliable narrators often and brushes off most things because of that but there's a point where it looks retarded.
Bring us back to before where it was just Sanae rambling autistically about scientific concepts because ZUN was very into that at the time please...

>> No.33052092

>>33049492
>It feels like with every new print work ZUN gets more bold with making his characters spew his takes (Sumireko)
I'll have to go back and read some stuff.
What are you referencing

>> No.33056902 [DELETED] 

.

>> No.33065638

>>33049492
ZUN could probably benefit from someone behind his shoulder to keep asking "Are you SURE you want to do this?"

>> No.33066529

>>33065638
ZUN could definitely benefit from being young again

>> No.33068128

>>33052092
Some of Sumirekos dialog in the newer CoLA chapters feel less like a genuine school girl from the year 2015 and more like an old man rambling about the $currentyear to me. I get that her concept is being a nerdy girl into the occult, but just the way she talks about outside world concepts feels out of touch with the way a teen in any other literature would speak and a bit too personal.
I think that's a pit a lot of writers fall into though, there's a few mangaka I can think of that do the exact same thing.
>>33065638
I hope his wife tard wrangles him more often. Unless it's some plot twist (true) (game theory) where the wife is the one helping with writing newer works.

>> No.33070529

>>33028394
Is it translated?

>> No.33070600

>>33070529
Yes, it should be easy to find with a quick google search.

>> No.33071079

>>33028394
I guess it's supposed to be more of a tabloid or a much trashier newspaper compared to Aya's usual--albeit dubious--work, hence the tengu photoshoot in the paper to increase circulation. Some of the articles were very specific parodies, like the Prismriver stuff was apparently referencing news coverage of some idol group breaking up and then reforming, so there's more than just the President Miko I guess.

Some of the artists ZUN tapped for this book seem like odd choices, like even aside from the gravure pics. But I guess some of the artists in Strange Creators of Outer World have me scratching my head too. Anyways it's ZUN's thing and not mine.

>>33068128
That's always been a bit of a CoLA thing though, hasn't it? It just used to be Rinnosuke ZUN'd use as a mouthpiece instead of Sumireko.

>> No.33075280

>>33068128
>Some of Sumirekos dialog in the newer CoLA chapters feel less like a genuine school girl from the year 2015 and more like an old man rambling about the $currentyear to me
Everyone will get to that point sooner or later.

>the way she talks about outside world concepts feels out of touch with the way a teen in any other literature would speak and a bit too personal.
Interesting.
The downloads were updated right? I might have it saved but I don't know if anything was added since it was before the danmaku contest stuff that came later.

>> No.33076149

>>33068128
Sumireko is ZUN's Touhou-sona

>> No.33086340

>>33076149
persona?

>> No.33092869

>>33086340
He phases shifts into the 2hu when he wants to go into gensokyo for inspiration

>> No.33094571

>>33029459
>ZUN doesn't really know anything about taoism.
I've seen this line several times in miko threads and I really wonder how much ones themselves know about taoism when they say that.
If you said it because you think taoism is about naturalism and individualism so the reign doesn't fit in, then you couldn't be more wrong.
First of all, the founder of taoism thought people should follow the rule of nature. It's the ruler's job to make sure his people follow it. The worst ruler rule by fear while a great ruler won't even let his poeple notice the rulership.
Second, the aforesaid is about taoism (the philosophy), not taoism (the religion). While the latter canonizes the former, they are often contradictory. The former states that death is a natural thing, but the latter pursue immortality; The former focus more on mentality, but the latter focus more on substance.
Last, just like Shinto, taoism was influenced by local religions, buddhism and others philosophies. Since taoism wasn't a religion from the start, no sect is qualified orthodox.
Back to topic, I think taoism in touhou is fine. Seiga is a radical hermit and miko is a fundamentalist.

>> No.33096010

>>33076149
>Sumireko is ZUN's Touhou-sona
Nope, Rinnosuke is.

>> No.33108450

rip print work bread

>> No.33108462

>>33096010
>Rinnosuke
That useless fence sitter?

>> No.33109565

The real important question is why were the moon bunnies pricing dango in mon when that coinage was phased out before the creation of gensokyo?

>> No.33119129
File: 390 KB, 750x1095, moon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
33119129

>>33109565
>why were the moon bunnies pricing dango in mon when that coinage was phased out before the creation of gensokyo?
You can thank their incompetent leaders. Besides, they need something to exchange aside from goods.

>> No.33125405

>>33028394
>I can't believe Yoshika is dead
I can't tell if you're shitposting there.

>> No.33125475

>>33029553
well history books are never 100% accurate so our knowledge of irl taoism is not accurate either.
So wanting something "accurate" is just nitpicking.

>> No.33135045

>>33125475
that's understandable.

>> No.33142098 [DELETED] 

>>33028394

>> No.33147118

>>33070529
Yes, it has been for a while.

>> No.33156543 [DELETED] 

>>33028394

>> No.33163805

>>33070529
Imagine needing translation, and you call yourself a Touhoufag?

>> No.33164674

>>33125405
Yoshika being dead is pretty scary to think about, isn't it?

>> No.33175134

>>33164674
The answer varies depending on who you ask.
Also if you mean the Yoshika side or the Seiga side.

>> No.33177622

I really do wonder if there will be additions for the new characters.
The Heca nterview with Aya was nice.

>> No.33182488

>>33065638
Authors do it all the time. They're just less blatant and more subtle in sneaking in an arc or two of a similar situation, if not just a little world dynamic.

>> No.33186581
File: 2.83 MB, 2160x1532, AFiEU (108-109).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
33186581

>>33175134
anon
she's dead

>> No.33188636

>>33041847
Hecatia's speech works because the whole premise of the book was that Aya was going way too far with her yellow press this time, and Hecatia is probably one of the few characters that Aya actually has to listen to. The premise of the book is that it was a tabloid that never actually made it to press in Gensokyo, and a goddess telling Aya to cut the shit is one of the few convincing ways to make that happen.

>> No.33197432 [DELETED] 

>>33028394

>> No.33201408

>>33186581
I know she's dead, but it reminds me of the Marisa deadposting from two years ago.

>> No.33212457 [DELETED] 

>>33028394
Great

>> No.33217479

Man, this was poorly-written. Not sure if it's the translation but it could have been better.

>> No.33218919

>>33186581
I forgot about this page, Yoshika doing double peace with a brain dead look (quite literally) is very cute.

As for AFiEU as a whole, I thought it was fine, maybe not super memorable, but not bad either. Of the written works I've read (which is most, I should go read the few I"ve not though) the fairy manga were my favorites probably.

>> No.33220933
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33220933

>>33028394
What did ZUN mean by this

>> No.33231384

>>33218919
>Yoshika doing double peace with a brain dead look (quite literally) is very cute.
Yeah. It really is.

>> No.33237460

>>33217479
Could you explain further? What did you not like?

>> No.33237685

>>33094571
What's taoism about then?

>> No.33246989

>>33237685
Life cycle

>> No.33249093

>>33237685
Imagine if the ancient historian had said Socrates hadn't been poisoned to death but had lived till 160. Then, some romans had founded a cult that had claimed he hadn't died but became a superpower being, and everyone could had became one by following his creeds and getting special training. As more and more folk had joined the cult, it had combined with alchemy, wizcraft and other occult shits. That's what taoism about.

>> No.33249167

>>33249093
The religious type of taoism, yes.

>> No.33256349

>>33249167
>>33249093
>>33237685
>>33094571
It's another can of worms.
I wonder how ZUN will tackle things going forward. He has Buddhism and Taoism on board. I wonder if he'll add anything else since Heca's Greek and far from East influence.

>> No.33260525

>>33256349
In terms of religions that have influenced Japan in a somewhat significant way, the main thing left would be Christianity I guess, which would probably be best to avoid for various reasons. I dunno maybe it would be fine, but it still feels like something ZUN wouldn't want to touch.

>> No.33261766
File: 259 KB, 879x613, it cleans stuff.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
33261766

I'm pretty sure AFiEU is parodying a (different from Bunbunmaru) real Japanese tabloid magazine in Japan. It being "out there" to get viewers is kind of the point.
The fact that AFiEU itself got cancelled in-universe by Aya, of all people, because she thought it was too shitty kind of seals the deal on how self-aware AFiEU is in its quality.

>> No.33262308

>>33186581
Kogasa looking at Yoshika nervously is great.

>> No.33271019

>>33260525
>I dunno maybe it would be fine, but it still feels like something ZUN wouldn't want to touch.
There's a lot but the easiest way to tackle it would be in sects, but that isn't easy since there's a lot that most people don't know.
Some can't tell the difference between the various Catholics and even how they differ from Christians.
Religion itself is messy since there's no "one" interpretation as many perceive the "truth" differently.

>> No.33271302

>>33260525
>>33271019
The Last Comer fangame has Jesus and other biblical characters as bosses.

>> No.33277045

>>33237685
Unironically memes

>> No.33277122

>>33271302
Huh, I had no idea that this was a thing, looks pretty good and well made. Have you played it anon?

>> No.33278269

>>33260525
>something ZUN wouldn't want to touch
He doesn't want to touch it directly but the Windows games start off with first stage Rumia claiming that she's going for a "Saint got crucified" look. Remilia too has a (anti) Christian background.

The characters do have a passing understanding of Christianity and it shows up here and there but never too strongly.

>> No.33278381

>>33271302
Jesus himself seems a bit much. It would be the equivalent of adding the Buddha in. Francis Xavier or some of his native disciples would be more appropriate.

>> No.33289551

>>33271302
I know. The religion has to be present in some form is what I mean. There's a lot to go through and interpret yourself.

>> No.33290077

>>33278381
I have no idea what Christianity in Japan is like. Maybe use some saint that’s especially popular over there.

>> No.33292964

>>33290077
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirishitan
The way Christianity spread to Japan is actually pretty neat, and it'd be cool to see some Portuguese inspired outfits for whatever the hell ZUN would make if there was a Christianity based game. Even the artworks and other trinkets have that east meets west vibes ZUN liked so much early on.

>> No.33301941

>>33290077
Watch Rurouni Kenshin for their views on Christianity.

>> No.33305306

>>33301941
>Rurouni Kenshin
I guess I have to now.
Thanks for reminding me.

>> No.33306685

>>33249093
Isn't that just stuff like Neoplatonism and Pythagoreanism? I know there's the whole philosophy jazz going on with them, but a lot of stuff attached to it just sounds like any other religion.
Plato's ideas like Atlantis would get revived again in the 19th century, all the stuff we tend to hear about it nowadays tends to be from occultism and weirdo New Age spirituality and conspiracy theory, so it's not far off that these guys influenced religion. Issac Newton was a smart guy and believed in a lot of weird stuff too.

>> No.33306891
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33306891

>>33271019
>Some can't tell the difference between the various Catholics and even how they differ from Christians.
Some view nuns a little too closely to miko.
It's not a Japanese thing only, my mother can't tell the difference between Hindus and Muslims and people here think all Muslims and Jews like each other and agree on everything. Imagine your only understanding of Christianity came from Mormons.
>>33290077
>Maybe use some saint that’s especially popular over there.
Not a saint but there was a time where everyone felt required to mention Amakusa Shiro

>> No.33306930

>>33249093
I dunno, it's kind of a pop culture "taoism", like the taoist characters in Journey to the West. Or like how Reimu's a shinto shrine maiden, so she can fly and shoot lasers and all the other shit she does.

Doesn't have anything to do with taoist philosophy, it just means you live in seclusion, and use "chinese taoist magic" to live forever and do badass stuff.

>> No.33308670

>>33249167
>>33249093
Wait so Miko and her followers are practitioners of the religious type of taoism to achieve immortality, but philosophically they're largely doing their own thing that's just their individual personalities, and sticking their noses where it pleases them instead of following the more, uh, "action by inaction and subtle arrangement" type of philosophical taoism. Is that right?

>> No.33318188

>>33306930
>>33308670
True. In fact, your descriptions may apply to every religious taoist from past to present. The Way of the Great Peace was one of the early taoism groups and it caused a massive rebellion, which went far against both its name and taoism philosophy.
>>33306685
>Isn't that just stuff like Neoplatonism and Pythagoreanism?
Exactly. The philosophers and their books are just the propaganda. They would try their hardest to misinterpreted them to fit their own ideas.

>> No.33320293 [DELETED] 

>>33028394
No

>> No.33324599

>>33177622
I was thinking the same. Loved that Reimu/Marisa ones too.

>> No.33325242
File: 1.28 MB, 2160x1532, x12.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
33325242

>>33261766
>AFiEU itself got cancelled in-universe by Aya
She concedes to criticism from a big figure like Hecatia, but still uses Sagume as a scapegoat for her writing. Her tengu pride is just too strong.
Speaking of Sagume it was nice to see her just hanging out at Eintei.

>> No.33328421

>>33325242
Tewi's massive floppy ears.

>> No.33330900

>>33325242
>
Reimu's a dumbass. She should have investigated.
On an unrelated note, instead of trolling like Yukari, the easiest way to "kill" a hourai immortal would be decapitation. Give them the deadpool treatment and send their limbs in any direction; so long as they're as far from eachother as possible.

>> No.33331384

>>33330900
Calm down there Junko.
Also I'm note sure body part separation would work. The Hourai Elixir is magic after all, not just based on cell regen.

>> No.33335748

>>33330900
Just shred the motor nerves pipeline at the base of the skull non lethally and keep them on transfusions.

>> No.33336036
File: 119 KB, 985x789, Unamused Neil.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
33336036

>>33325242
>this mysterious, shady character is a Lunarian
Filthy moonies are at it again!

>> No.33340199

>>33306930
>I dunno, it's kind of a pop culture "taoism", like the taoist characters in Journey to the West.
Or wuxia and any fiction about chi and flying around with martial arts and swords. I hear places like Taiwan and Hong Kong and so on have their own idea of a chuuni, but it's usually kids trying to appear cool and mysterious and claiming themselves to be Taoists based from what little they read in fiction.

>> No.33347305

>>33028784
I remember a translator posting before the release of the book (when only the title was known)
>Oh please, ZUN has tact. It's not like he's going to dress Miko up like Trump and have her say "We're building a wall!" or anything.
Yeah...

>>33065638
IIRC after the first half of that Mamizou-vs-Aya "social media kills newspapers" storyline in FS, he said he worried he'd gone too far.

>> No.33353664

>>33336036
You're too old Neil.
Leave kicking the shit out of the Moonies to me.

>> No.33367245 [DELETED] 

.

>> No.33369702

>>33261766
>Marisa Kirisame's Limited-Edition Magic Broom
I remember the Doremy ad.
>I'm pretty sure AFiEU is parodying a (different from Bunbunmaru) real Japanese tabloid magazine in Japan. It being "out there" to get viewers is kind of the point.
Which one? What magazine rather.

>> No.33373270 [DELETED] 

.

>> No.33381303 [DELETED] 

.

>> No.33386264 [DELETED] 

.

>> No.33400387

>>33028394
Hecatia's speech about immigration killed the whole thing for me
>inb4Touhou is all about multiculturalism and inclusion
I mean, it's not entirely wrong but you have to remember why ZUN refuses to delve into monotheistic western religions such as Christianity and Islam...

>> No.33403634 [DELETED] 

,

>> No.33410128 [DELETED] 

.

>> No.33416113

>>33400387
Isn't immigration in Japan a hot topic? Though I thini their idea of immigration (letting in neighboring countries people under specific conditions) is different from most western countries (everyone gets a smash invintation to your country no questions asked) so it probably comes off differently to a Japanese reader.
Still doesn't stop it from being cringe though.
I do remember a very specific translator on the TouhouWiki (not bringing them up cause they ego search) was going on their Tumblr blog about how ZUNs totes a liberal gais after AFiEU translation was finished, so I do wonder how heavyhanded the immigration message was in the original text. It's not the first time something like that happens.

>> No.33417953

>>33416113
Yeah, Hecatia is like "Well, Hell is a shitty place where evil people with no concept of personal space live and if you don't let them in we'll start a war with Gensokyo, definitely not parasites unlike the Lunarians living here" Ok maybe i'm just being overly-cynical but it's hard not to interpret it like that. I can accept her arguments against isolationism but she doesn't explain how Hell is a good place for Gensokyo to get along with and the only factor preventing things from going out of control is Hecatia herself.

>> No.33419990

>>33417953
The part of her saying Lunarians are the REAL foreigners who need to be kicked out is the most puzzling aspect.

>> No.33422481

>>33419990
Especially weird since, while Lunarians aren't the nicest group, the only reason they were causing problems at the time was because they were trying to flee a war started by Hecatia.

>> No.33422548

>>33417953
>definitely not parasites unlike the Lunarians living here
If you kick out Eirin, that villager with the moustache is going to kill himself. Just saying.

>> No.33422639

>>33417953
>"Well, Hell is a shitty place where evil people with no concept of personal space live and if you don't let them in we'll start a war with Gensokyo, definitely not parasites unlike the Lunarians living here"
I think the idea was supposed to be that the Lunar Capital is China and Hell is the US?

>> No.33425338

Now that I think about it, why did ZUN decide to even make a commentary about US politics in Touhou anyways? "US Politics affect Japan too!" Maybe, but nothing that ZUN provided commentary on in the book was really relevant to Japan, and the only noteworthy thing Trump did with policy towards Japan was jump the TPP, which the book didn't mention or have any allegory to at all.

Fake news exists all around the world, so Aya shenanigans makes sense, but the US policy criticism seems out of place in Touhou, a Japan/Asia centric series.

>>33422639
I'm not sure if the Lunar Capital being China makes things better or worse.

>> No.33425715

>>33417953
I thought the idea was Hecatia trying to turn Aya's own logic against her. "If you're worried about outsiders screwing you over, why are you focusing on some random highschooler instead of the space empire that openly brags about how much they like to screw you over? You suck at conservatism.".

It's still weird though, because it's presented as an argument where one side is objectively right and the other objectively wrong with no redeeming qualities, in a series that normally goes to extreme lengths to avoid that.

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